VERY unhappy Dusk

[00:11] <&Deck_Knight> Please Dusk
[00:11] <verbatim> this is for you
[00:11] <&Deck_Knight> As if a newbie like Birkal could beat Tmon
[00:11] <&Deck_Knight> In post length
[00:12] <%Rising_Dusk> Heh.
[00:12] <Flarephoenix> lol
01[00:12] <+EspyOwner> Lol
[00:12] <+DHR> Wow BmB went all out on claydol
[00:12] <verbatim> next april fools day
[00:12] <phoopes> That is a freakin' big analysis for Claydol of all things.
[00:12] <verbatim> i want someone with site acess to put that in
[00:12] <&capefeather> honestly I thought of the original "break the mold" as having a significant flavour basis (trying to break flavour stereotypes of typing), whereas tmon's/my submissions don't have that
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> The original break the mold is like, the most asinine concept ever.
[00:13] <&Deck_Knight> Oooh, must see
[00:13] <&Deck_Knight> Where is it?
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> I never in my wildest dreams thought it'd get slated again and actually throw in for a win.
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> It is literally "Hi, this is a fanboi concept with little purpose"
[00:13] <verbatim> dusk
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> Which is cool. You literally "make a non-standard Pokemon"
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> But that's it.
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> That's all you do.
[00:13] <verbatim> there were worse concepts
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> There is no in-depth discussion.
[00:13] <&capefeather> lol
[00:13] <%Rising_Dusk> Oh yeah, there are worse we've done.
[00:14] <%Rising_Dusk> Don't start me on Cyclohm.
[00:14] <Flarephoenix> Glass Cannon Steel-Type.
[00:14] <verbatim> there was a concept devoted to making psycho shift useable
[00:14] <%Rising_Dusk> The fuck is that shit.
[00:14] <%Rising_Dusk> "Underused Ability"
[00:14] <%Rising_Dusk> Fuck that.
[00:14] <phoopes> Lol, I remember reading that one verb.
[00:14] <&Deck_Knight> reach seemed to think that absent Illusion your concept would be difficult to execute >_>
[00:14] <&Deck_Knight> I don't think that's the case, but it would go a long way
[00:14] <&Deck_Knight> Especially in completely mindblowing the CAP Meta, lol
[00:15] <%Rising_Dusk> Even if it failed, at least my concept would result in unique and intriguing discussion.
[00:15] <&Deck_Knight> Hopefully we can make it Zoroark's Perfect Mate >_>
[00:15] <%Rising_Dusk> We shouldn't be afraid of failure.
[00:15] <+DHR> Psycho shift mon is Sigilyph
[00:15] <verbatim> deck
[00:15] <verbatim> please
[00:15] <%Rising_Dusk> It's about the process.
[00:15] <&capefeather> idk, I guess I had a hard time with coming up with an "elegance" concept so I went with a "treasure hunt" concept
[00:15] <verbatim> tell me your talking about statistically
[00:15] <&capefeather> and I don't think there's anything really wrong with that, personally
[00:15] <&Deck_Knight> Oh no, no, that's ridiculous.
[00:15] <&Deck_Knight> I was thinking about Colossoil, actually.
[00:15] <&Deck_Knight> Or maybe Krilowatt
[00:16] <&Deck_Knight> Statistically, I mean
[00:16] <&Deck_Knight> :D
[00:16] <&Deck_Knight> (This is why I scare people)
[00:16] <%Rising_Dusk> If tmon's concept wins, I am pushing for a sweeping Poison-type.
[00:16] <phoopes> ^
[00:16] <%Rising_Dusk> If that fails, I'm ignoring the rest of the CAP.
[00:16] <%Rising_Dusk> Because it'll be lame.
[00:16] <&capefeather> lol
[00:16] <%Rising_Dusk> I'll come back for the playtest.
[00:16] <verbatim> also
[00:16] <verbatim> i think that espyowner
[00:17] <phoopes> How many truly offensive Poison types are there in OU?
[00:17] <&Deck_Knight> Venoshock + Fire Blast + Earth Power should do it, save those pesky BalloonTran
[00:17] <verbatim> actually decided to read the bmb article
[00:17] <phoopes> Toxicroak...
01[00:17] <+EspyOwner> ...What if I did?
[00:17] <phoopes> Nidoking to an extent?
01[00:17] <+EspyOwner> ._.
[00:17] <%Rising_Dusk> Nidoking doesn't use Poison-type attacks.
[00:17] <&capefeather> mono-poison could be a good route to go so that the "patching" isn't as artificial-looking as it could be
[00:17] <%Rising_Dusk> It uses Sheer Force Fire Blast and shit.
[00:17] <phoopes> I'm aware of that.
01[00:17] <+EspyOwner> It uses Sludge Wave in UU
01[00:17] <+EspyOwner> iirc.
[00:17] <&capefeather> in UU he does though... almost solely because of rotom-h
[00:17] <%Rising_Dusk> Remember that this is an OU concept.
[00:17] <phoopes> Nothing uses Poison-type moves unless it's REALLY strapped in its movepool.
[00:17] <&capefeather> yeah I know
[00:18] <%Rising_Dusk> So what it does in a different meta is irrelevant.
[00:18] <&capefeather> I'm j/s
[00:18] <%Rising_Dusk> In OU it can't get away with Poison attacks because of the like 8 Steels.
[00:18] <%Rising_Dusk> 9* steels
[00:18] <phoopes> If I'm thinking of the right ability...
[00:18] <&Deck_Knight> We could give it Poison-type Scrappy!
[00:18] <phoopes> Tinted Lens could help with that.
[00:18] <%Rising_Dusk> Tinted Lens doesn't help vs. immunities.
[00:18] <%Rising_Dusk> = Useless
[00:18] <Flarephoenix> Tinted Lens doesn't do shit to immunities.
[00:19] <phoopes> Oh.
[00:19] <phoopes> Well, back to the drawing board.
[00:19] <%Rising_Dusk> The only way you could make a Poison-type Pokemon use Poison-type moves is if you don't give it other moves.
[00:19] <%Rising_Dusk> Make it physical so it can't use HP
[00:19] <%Rising_Dusk> And make it SO STRONG that it'll be good enough despite the immunities.
[00:19] <%Rising_Dusk> I'm talking Haxorus strong.
[00:19] <&Deck_Knight> We can make it Poison/Elec and give it Trick and Ring Target... bwahahahahaha!
[00:19] <%Rising_Dusk> With like CompoundEyes Gunk Shot
[00:19] <+jas61292> Fire/Poison Type with nothing but STAB coverage
[00:19] <+DHR> Meah I dont find bloated BST's interesting to make up for shitty typing
[00:20] <%Rising_Dusk> Wouldn't have to bloat the BST
[00:20] <%Rising_Dusk> Could easily do it in 540 BST
[00:20] <&Deck_Knight> Excadrill Poison Type
[00:20] <%Rising_Dusk> Besides, STOP BEING SCARED of pseudo-legend stats.
[00:20] <%Rising_Dusk> I hate CAP's inexplicable terror for high BSTs.
[00:20] <&Deck_Knight> There's so many BST 600s floating around now it's hardly relevant.
[00:20] <%Rising_Dusk> Seriously!
[00:21] <+DHR> Whats the point in using high BSTs when the same can be done without using them?!
[00:21] <&Deck_Knight> Magic.
[00:21] <+DHR> Look at Breloom!
02[00:21] * Steamroll (~Steamroll@I.aint.got.no.worries.cause.I.aint.in.no.hurry.at.all) Quit (Quit: )
[00:21] <%Rising_Dusk> Breloom is a terrible example of what we'd be doing here.
[00:21] <%Rising_Dusk> lol
01[00:21] <+EspyOwner> ._.
[00:21] <&Deck_Knight> Noted Bad typing: Grass/Fighting
[00:21] <+DHR> I'm just saying It doesnt need godly stats to be good
[00:21] <%Rising_Dusk> Grass/Fighting is fucking awesome typing.
01[00:21] <+EspyOwner> DHR
[00:21] <%Rising_Dusk> Fighting anything is amazing.
01[00:21] <+EspyOwner> 130 base attack
01[00:21] <+EspyOwner> ._.
[00:21] <%Rising_Dusk> That was never my point DHR.
[00:21] <&Deck_Knight> I was being sarcastic Dusk lol
[00:22] <verbatim> espy
[00:22] <verbatim> breloom has the second lowest bst
[00:22] <+DHR> So Espy, Kingler also has 130 attack and its shit
[00:22] <verbatim> of all ou mons
[00:22] <%Rising_Dusk> My point is that you should not put down high BSTs simply because they are high BSTs.
[00:22] <phoopes> Poison/Fighting then? Haha.
01[00:22] <+EspyOwner> pstats, Breloom
[00:22] <pstats> Breloom [Grass/Fighting] Effect Spore/Poison Heal/Technician (DW, Unreleased) | 60/130/80/60/60/70 | OU | GK/LK: 60 BP
[00:22] <%Rising_Dusk> Nah Poison/Fighting would be total overkill.
[00:22] <%Rising_Dusk> The point of tmon's concept is to use something non-standard.
[00:22] <%Rising_Dusk> Fighting as a sweeper is bog standard.
[00:22] <&Deck_Knight> Let's do Poison/Rock!
06[00:22] * %Rising_Dusk rubs temples
[00:22] <%Rising_Dusk> Mono-poison is the only way.
[00:22] <verbatim> i like poison fire
[00:22] <verbatim> if we want heatran to counter it
[00:22] <verbatim> not stabs
[00:22] <%Rising_Dusk> Rock STAB would totally overrule Poison STAB
[00:22] <verbatim> if we don't
[00:23] <%Rising_Dusk> Same with Fire
[00:23] <%Rising_Dusk> Fire STAB is fucking great.
[00:23] <verbatim> give him exactly the specia lattack necceisary to score a kill wiht hp?
[00:23] <%Rising_Dusk> Although SR weak = probably UU
01[00:23] <+EspyOwner> What if we used Poison/Steel?
[00:23] <Flarephoenix> Atomic bomb?
[00:23] <%Rising_Dusk> What good does Steel do you besides add massive effective bulk?
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[00:23] <phoopes> I had heard that suggested yesterday.
[00:23] <+DHR> God we dont need another fuckng steel
[00:23] <&Deck_Knight> I'd go with Poison/Elec, cause the only thing Poison hits SE is Grass types, which resist Elec.
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[00:23] <%Rising_Dusk> We have 1 bloody CAP steel.
[00:23] <%Rising_Dusk> Wtf
01[00:23] <+EspyOwner> It makes it neutral to Fighting and 4x to Ground.
[00:23] <+DHR> I mean in OU
[00:23] <&Deck_Knight> Plus it says "fuk Tomohawk" on the label >_>
[00:23] <%Rising_Dusk> Electric is stupid too.
[00:24] <%Rising_Dusk> That sounds like a flavor decision.
[00:24] <%Rising_Dusk> Electric STAB is also awesome.
[00:24] <phoopes> I actually quite like Poison/Electric.
[00:24] <verbatim> whats wrong with electric?
[00:24] <+jas61292> Electric is such a great type
[00:24] <Flarephoenix> Fire/Poison
[00:24] <+DHR>  its really good
[00:24] <&Deck_Knight> Physical Electric is far from awesome lol. Ask Electivire.
06[00:24] * %Rising_Dusk rubs temples.
[00:24] <%Rising_Dusk> The point of tmon's concept isn't to "use awesome types"
[00:24] <%Rising_Dusk> Electric is a great offensive type.
[00:24] <Flarephoenix> Bug/Poison
01[00:24] <+EspyOwner> R_D you're missing the point of my suggestion.
[00:24] <Flarephoenix> BUG/POISON
[00:24] <verbatim> is there a precedent of not giving a pokemon hidden power?
[00:24] <%Rising_Dusk> No.
[00:24] <&Deck_Knight> Weedle
[00:24] <&Deck_Knight> Wobbuffett
[00:24] <phoopes> Fine, Poison and... Dark?
[00:24] <+DHR> Unless its Ditto/Wobb etc no
[00:25] <phoopes> Idunno.
01[00:25] <+EspyOwner> Steel would be nerfing the defensive aspect of the Poison typing, not enhancing it.
[00:25] <%Rising_Dusk> How would it nerf it?
[00:25] <Destiny_Warrior> BACK
[00:25] <Destiny_Warrior> oops caps
[00:25] <%Rising_Dusk> I doubt the CAP could take an EQ anyway.
[00:25] <Destiny_Warrior> why does my dad
[00:25] <Destiny_Warrior> alwats leave
[00:25] <%Rising_Dusk> But now it can fucking tank Dragons and shit
[00:25] <Destiny_Warrior> the caps lock on <_<
[00:25] <%Rising_Dusk> lol
[00:25] <&capefeather> yeah there's no point to elec at all with tmon's concept
01[00:25] <+EspyOwner> It removes its invaluable resistence to Fighting, and gives it a weakness to Fire.
[00:25] <phoopes> Poison/Dark?
01[00:25] <+EspyOwner> Enhances its weakness to Ground
[00:25] <phoopes> >
[00:25] <phoopes> ?
[00:25] <%Rising_Dusk> Steel does so much defensively.
[00:25] <%Rising_Dusk> You wall Scizor, for instance.
[00:25] <verbatim> most dragons carry fire or ground moves
[00:25] <verbatim> oh
[00:26] <verbatim> scizor is a good point
01[00:26] <+EspyOwner> ...Is that necessarily a bad thing?
[00:26] <verbatim> though to be fair, thats not a reason to not look at it
[00:26] <Destiny_Warrior> steel
[00:26] <Destiny_Warrior> has 11 resistances
[00:26] <phoopes> Though Poison/Dark would be walled by Steel types.
01[00:26] <+EspyOwner> and three very common weaknesses.
[00:26] <verbatim> pretty mcuh any set we come up with is going to wall something
[00:26] <%Rising_Dusk> The point is that it doesn't actually help the concept.
[00:26] <%Rising_Dusk> It literally just helps the Pokemon.
[00:26] <%Rising_Dusk> You need to realize what origi-BTM means.
[00:26] <%Rising_Dusk> It means you do something totally off the wall with a type.
[00:27] <Destiny_Warrior> ok gotta go again
[00:27] <%Rising_Dusk> "walling something with a steel type" is bog standard.
01[00:27] <+EspyOwner> ...Did I say anything about walling?
[00:27] <phoopes> Okay, Fighting type wall?
01[00:27] <+EspyOwner> ...
[00:27] <%Rising_Dusk> Fighting type wall would be acceptably.
[00:27] <phoopes> That's unusual, maybe?
[00:27] <+jas61292> Fire Wall!!
[00:27] <&capefeather> throh++
[00:27] <%Rising_Dusk> Or how about a sweeper Steel-type.
[00:27] <phoopes> lol
[00:27] <&Deck_Knight> Poison/Elec is still the way to go imo if you're intent on Poison. We might as well shut down Volt-turn and give it Lev which makes it mediocre defensive typing into AWESOME defensive typing.
[00:27] <verbatim> to be fair, if you don't invest heavily in defenses, your not walling the dragons
[00:27] <+DHR> The only thing that comes close is Machamp
[00:27] <%Rising_Dusk> Scizor kinda does that.
[00:27] <%Rising_Dusk> But like, still.
[00:27] <&Deck_Knight> Unless you run into Haxorus
[00:27] <verbatim> a special steel sweeer?
[00:27] <&capefeather> steel sweeper would be cool
[00:27] <%Rising_Dusk> lol Deck.
[00:27] <&Deck_Knight> So we'll give it 96 SPeed
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[00:28] <&Deck_Knight> And be done with it.
[00:28] <%Rising_Dusk> That's such a flavor argument it's terrible.
[00:28] <phoopes> I guess I'll go with Fighting-type wall.
[00:28] <%Rising_Dusk> "We might as well shut down voltturn!"
[00:28] <%Rising_Dusk> A) you don't shut it down
[00:28] <%Rising_Dusk> B) electric STAB >>>>>>>>>> Poison STAB
[00:28] <&Deck_Knight> Physical Electric STAB sucks.
[00:28] <%Rising_Dusk> You may as well just say "Let's not succeed at tmon's concept!"
02[00:28] * creepshow (~anonymous@synIRC-C95B788.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Broken pipe)
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[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> Maybe that was true in DPP, Deck.
[00:29] <&Deck_Knight> Unless you're Zekrom and have Bolt Strike.
[00:29] <verbatim> alternatively volt tackle
[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> But between Wild Charge and the possibility we can give it Bolt Strike?
[00:29] <&capefeather> Wild Charge exists now
[00:29] <+jas61292> Or Pikachu
[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> Or Volt Tackle?
[00:29] <phoopes> Well, we are jumping the gun a bit here, assuming Tmon is going to win.
[00:29] <+DHR> :| Wid Charge syays Hi
[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> Quite frankly, electric physical stab is fine.
[00:29] <phoopes> There's always a chance that someone else will.
[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> Give the fucker Magic Guard.
[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> Idk
[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> Tmon is getting a lot of votes.
[00:29] <&capefeather> ok let's not use volt tackle when wild charge is right there
[00:29] <+DHR> -_-
[00:29] <%Rising_Dusk> So I need to prepare for every contingency.
[00:29] <verbatim> the thing is with electirc and posion
[00:29] <verbatim> is that if you are physical
[00:29] <verbatim> posion has better moves to chose from
[00:29] <+DHR> lol what no
[00:30] <%Rising_Dusk> You're telling me thta gunk shot is better than volt tackle?
[00:30] <%Rising_Dusk> lol
[00:30] <&capefeather> honestly I'd be fine with any of them other than subwayj's :P
01[00:30] <+EspyOwner> Is Poison the only typing that hasn't been chosen by a past CAP?
[00:30] <%Rising_Dusk> Gunk Shot is like a shitty typing version of FOCUS BLAST
[00:30] <+jas61292> No
[00:30] <%Rising_Dusk> Fidgit Espy
[00:30] <&Deck_Knight> Fidgit
[00:30] <verbatim> normal
[00:30] <Flarephoenix> I'm with Cape.
[00:30] <verbatim> ?
01[00:30] <+EspyOwner> Oh, right.
[00:30] <+jas61292> And psychic
[00:30] <&capefeather> different people see different things
[00:30] <+DHR> Normal is out on its own
[00:30] <&Deck_Knight> Psychic's the only one.
01[00:30] <+EspyOwner> Ah
[00:30] <&capefeather> tmon might finally give us a psychic-type CAP
[00:30] <&capefeather> lulz
[00:31] <+DHR> how?
[00:31] <%Rising_Dusk> What would the concept actually get from Psychic type?
[00:31] <phoopes> Physical Psychic sweeper?
[00:31] <%Rising_Dusk> Like, nothing.
[00:31] <verbatim> we already have pshyic walls
[00:31] <phoopes> Idunno.
[00:31] <%Rising_Dusk> "Gallade"
[00:31] <&Deck_Knight> I'd go fot Psy/Elec Physical Sweeper, lol.
[00:31] <phoopes> True.
06[00:31] * %Rising_Dusk rubs temples
[00:31] <+DHR> Defensive and offensive Psychics already exist
01[00:31] <+EspyOwner> pstats, Gallade
[00:31] <pstats> Gallade [Psychic/Fighting] Steadfast/Justified (DW) | 68/125/65/65/115/80 | RU | GK/LK: 80 BP
01[00:31] <+EspyOwner> err
01[00:31] <+EspyOwner> how about a usable phys Psychic sweeper? ._.
[00:31] <&capefeather> eh I guess psychic would have made more sense in dpp
[00:31] <&capefeather> nvm
[00:31] <%Rising_Dusk> I remember in DPP he was legit.
01[00:31] <+EspyOwner> This isn't DPP
[00:31] <%Rising_Dusk> I used that fucker on my OU teams and rocked ass.
01[00:32] <+EspyOwner> We're not making for DPP anymore.
[00:32] <%Rising_Dusk> I'm being nostalgic, stfu.
[00:32] <+jas61292> Gallade is physical Psychic, but he doesn't care much about his Psychich typing
[00:32] <%Rising_Dusk> Seriously, I know that you retard.
06[00:32] * %Rising_Dusk rubs temples.
01[00:32] <+EspyOwner> Why are you being so incredibly rude?
[00:32] <%Rising_Dusk> Because you make me so incredibly mad!
[00:32] <%Rising_Dusk> Anyway.
[00:32] <+DHR> Jesus christ Dusk, calm down
01[00:32] <+EspyOwner> Seriously.
[00:32] <&Deck_Knight> It's 12:30 and Dusk needs a nap, lol
[00:32] <phoopes> Gallade is more of a Physical sweeper because of secondary Fighting typing, in my opinion.
[00:32] <+jas61292> Yeah
[00:32] <%Rising_Dusk> "Oh noes dusk called someone a retard end of the world"
01[00:32] <+EspyOwner> You're whining like a four year old who isn't getting his way.
01[00:33] <+EspyOwner> You do notice that, right?
[00:33] <%Rising_Dusk> You're doing your argument no favors by responding to me like you are.
[00:33] <&capefeather> uh oh
[00:33] <%Rising_Dusk> You do notice that, right?
[00:33] <verbatim> why don't we all take a nice deep breath
[00:33] <verbatim> and realize that yelling at each other isn't going to go anywhere
[00:33] <%Rising_Dusk> It goes plenty of places.
[00:33] <%Rising_Dusk> He's an easy target. :P
[00:33] <+jas61292> nowhere productive
[00:33] <verbatim> isn't going to go anyhwere positive*
02[00:33] * macle (macle@If.youll.be.my.Louisiana.Ill.be.your.Mississippi) Quit (Quit: )
06[00:34] * Flarephoenix retreats to the safety of #Hailmon
01[00:34] <+EspyOwner> R_D, I've been pretty passive this entire argument.
[00:34] <+jas61292> lol flare
[00:34] <%Rising_Dusk> Yesss, come to the dark side.
[00:34] <&capefeather> well we're at a poll stage, not like we can be very productive in the first place
[00:34] <&Deck_Knight> In any case Poison/Elec is easily argued as "poor offensively"
01[00:34] <+EspyOwner> It's only recently that I decided to speak against you.
[00:34] <&Deck_Knight> It's walled by Ground by nature and Ferrothorn.
[00:34] <%Rising_Dusk> Espy, you're still talking. Why?
[00:35] <%Rising_Dusk> And Deck, really, I think mono-Poison is better still.
[00:35] <%Rising_Dusk> At least for the concept.
[00:35] <&capefeather> if we went with elec I think the "weakness" would shift over to poor coverage movepool or something
[00:35] <%Rising_Dusk> Yeah.
[00:35] <%Rising_Dusk> Not the typing.
[00:35] <&capefeather> which would be weird
[00:35] <%Rising_Dusk> Exactly.
[00:35] <verbatim> dusk does raise a good point
[00:35] <verbatim> i'd be fine with a pure poison type now
[00:36] <%Rising_Dusk> The concept would then be "How do we make this mono-Poison type an effective sweeper without blatant coverage?"
[00:36] <+DHR> Problem is people LOVE dual types -_-
[00:36] <%Rising_Dusk> Because ofc we could solve all problems by giving it contrary V-create or some shit.
[00:36] <verbatim> adaptability?
[00:36] <&capefeather> I kind of think what tmon had in mind the most was some of the arceus formes
[00:36] <%Rising_Dusk> Oh, adaptability is cool.
[00:36] <Flarephoenix> Contrary V-Create
[00:36] <Flarephoenix> Lol
[00:36] <+jas61292> Tinted Lens would probably make it decent too
[00:36] <%Rising_Dusk> Nah Tinted Lens doesn't help vs. Steels
[00:36] <+jas61292> Nor does Adaptibility
[00:37] <verbatim> we could theoretically go the conventoinal dragon route
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> Yeah but tinted lens literally does nothing against 99% of OU
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> Adapt does.
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> Tinted lens helps against.... Tentacruel?
[00:37] <verbatim> and make it good enough that running magezone in tandem with it is viable
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> Hrm. A ground-type?
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> That's about it.
01[00:37] <+EspyOwner> Rock types.
[00:37] <+jas61292> Tenta, Gastrodon, Rock types
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> Rock resists Poison? lol
[00:37] <verbatim> in other words, tentacruel, gastrodon, tyranitar, terrakion
[00:37] <+jas61292> Gengar
01[00:37] <+EspyOwner> and so does Ghost.
[00:37] <verbatim> then your not getting past engar either way
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> Gengar would get annihilated by a resisted physical attack anyway.
[00:37] <%Rising_Dusk> Especially backed by sufficient power.
[00:38] <Flarephoenix> Poison gets some of the weirdest offensive resistants ever.
[00:38] <%Rising_Dusk> It still takes like 60% from Scizor's 4x resisted u-turn.
[00:38] <verbatim> what hits steel normally?
[00:38] <%Rising_Dusk> Normal.
[00:38] <%Rising_Dusk> Wait, normally?
[00:38] <%Rising_Dusk> Like x1
[00:38] <%Rising_Dusk> ?
[00:38] <&capefeather> gengar barely survives +2 sawsbuck horn leech, I remember
01[00:38] <+EspyOwner> Water and Electric
[00:38] <+DHR> Water
[00:38] <+jas61292> water
[00:38] <+DHR> Electric
[00:38] <+jas61292> that is all
[00:38] <+DHR> Is that all
[00:38] <verbatim> hmm
[00:38] <%Rising_Dusk> I think Adaptability is a much better choice.
[00:38] <verbatim> i know we already have one
[00:38] <&Deck_Knight> I'm not afraid of failure, but pure Poison sweeper is ridiculous on its face. Poison's benefits are primarily defensive, not offensive, and it's not gronking it's way through anything. Metagross can barely gronk through shit without its coverage, and nothing is immune to Meteor Mash.
[00:39] <&Deck_Knight> That said, it does fit the definition of "bad typing" simply through its existence.
[00:39] <verbatim> gronk?
[00:39] <%Rising_Dusk> Idk
[00:39] <+jas61292> Well, its a nice defensive typing, so maybe a boosting sweeper
[00:39] <+DHR> shift Fear
[00:39] <&capefeather> metagross could always use choice band
[00:39] <&capefeather> for epic power
[00:39] <verbatim> fighting coverage
[00:39] <%Rising_Dusk> Fortunately, what walls Poison sweeper totally can be helped a lot by Magnezone.
[00:40] <&capefeather> I still remember when I tried it and meteor mash + sr took ~half off rotom-h
01[00:40] <+EspyOwner> Minus Gastrodon.
[00:40] <+DHR> Sort of a Voodoomy Synergy
[00:40] <&capefeather> that was awesome
[00:40] <verbatim> if we do go with poison adaptability, who's in favor of special attacker or physical attacker
[00:40] <&Deck_Knight> Gastrodon: Anothing thing that walls Poison/Elec >_>
[00:40] <%Rising_Dusk> Idk
[00:40] <%Rising_Dusk> Adaptability resisted Poison STAB would still rape Gastro.
01[00:40] <+EspyOwner> And that may be a good thing, Deck.
[00:40] <verbatim> here
[00:40] <verbatim> let me do some clacs
[00:41] <phoopes> Well, I'm going to go with Fighting type wall should Tmon's idea win.
01[00:41] <+EspyOwner> We're not trying to make something that isn't walled by anything.
[00:41] <%Rising_Dusk> lol I have one vote.
[00:41] <&capefeather> maybe have both tinted lens and adaptability
[00:41] <%Rising_Dusk> And it's myself.
[00:41] <%Rising_Dusk> Awesome.
[00:41] <&capefeather> lol
[00:41] <+jas61292> You'll get more
[00:41] <phoopes> haha
[00:41] <%Rising_Dusk> I am super cool kid on the block right now.
[00:41] <&Deck_Knight> Hariyama
[00:41] <phoopes> (That's what I told myself when I got slated for Necturine's movepool)
[00:41] <phoopes> (It didn't happen)
[00:41] <+DHR> Well Ill either vote yours or Capes
[00:41] <&capefeather> you have a very cool concept R_D
[00:42] <%Rising_Dusk> I'll never submit it again, fwiw.
[00:42] <%Rising_Dusk> It was a one-shot deal.
[00:42] <Flarephoenix> Clearing the way
[00:42] <Flarephoenix> for HAILMON
[00:42] <+DHR> Tmons will just generate another bulky fucking cap
[00:42] <%Rising_Dusk> I've been saving it for like 3 years, lol.
[00:42] <%Rising_Dusk> Okay not that long.
[00:42] <%Rising_Dusk> Since BW came out.
[00:42] <+DHR> and subwayJs is tryingto explore too much atm I think
[00:42] <phoopes> I think his is just a bit much, too be honest.
[00:42] <Destiny_Warrior> back
[00:43] <phoopes> Not exactly two CAPs at once, but it's basically the work of one and a half, I would think.
[00:43] <verbatim> rd
[00:43] <verbatim> wiat no
[00:43] <verbatim> hold on i missed something
[00:44] <%Rising_Dusk> 252 Adamant Life Orb CAP 3 Gunk Shot vs. 212/252 Calm Leftovers Gastrodon : 49% - 57.7%
[00:44] <%Rising_Dusk> That's adaptability Poison-type, resisted.
[00:44] <verbatim> thats also taking into account gunk shots "accuracy"
[00:44] <+DHR> off what base attack
[00:44] <&Deck_Knight> If we want bad typing we could always go with Ghost/Rock
[00:44] <%Rising_Dusk> Haxorus
[00:44] <&Deck_Knight> Yeah, I know, another Ghost, too soon
[00:44] <%Rising_Dusk> And that's bulkier than most tank Gastro anyway.
[00:44] <verbatim> lets admit that we're not getting through gastrodon with a poison type stab
[00:45] <&Deck_Knight> Why not use Sheer Force instead of Adaptability?
[00:45] <+DHR> Because you get less power?
[00:45] <%Rising_Dusk> Which gives more power boost?
[00:45] <%Rising_Dusk> Isn't adaptability more?
[00:45] <+DHR> Yes
[00:45] <%Rising_Dusk> And you keep your secodnary?
[00:45] <phoopes> I think so.
[00:45] <verbatim> adaptability makes its typing
[00:45] <verbatim> more valuable
[00:45] <+DHR> Adapt is x2
[00:45] <verbatim> as a tool
[00:45] <%Rising_Dusk> I agree with verbatim.
[00:45] <Destiny_Warrior> let's give
[00:45] <+DHR> Sher force is 20%
[00:46] <&capefeather> seed bomb :P
[00:46] <Destiny_Warrior> our CAP
[00:46] <Destiny_Warrior> BIRD TYPE
[00:46] <&Deck_Knight> Adapt shifts from x1.5 -> x2
[00:46] <&Deck_Knight> So yeah
[00:46] <%Rising_Dusk> Although really.
[00:46] <%Rising_Dusk> This Haxorus Poison-type ravages neutral hits, lol.
[00:46] <Destiny_Warrior> so deck, is a rock/ice ambitious enough
[00:46] <Destiny_Warrior> for theorymon's concept
[00:46] <%Rising_Dusk> Ew.
[00:46] <%Rising_Dusk> Scizor OHKOes you  through Reflect.
[00:46] <%Rising_Dusk> TIME TO RETHINK
[00:46] <phoopes> Kill it with Mach Punch!
[00:46] <+jas61292> Well, giving it Haxorus Attack may be a bit ridiculous
[00:46] <phoopes> (Or Bullet Punch)
[00:47] <verbatim> hmm
[00:47] <%Rising_Dusk> Idk I think Haxorus attack is necessary when you're using mono-Poison coverage, lol.
[00:47] <verbatim> try going the route of 100/all
[00:47] <phoopes> What is Haxorus' Attack again? 147?
[00:47] <verbatim> and see what kind of calcs we get
[00:47] <verbatim> defensively
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> haxorus attack isn't enough
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> give it deo-a attack
[00:47] <%Rising_Dusk> 100 Atk is pathetic.
[00:47] <+jas61292> Well, it might have some coverage moves.
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> deo-a SpA
[00:47] <%Rising_Dusk> Yeah, RETURN!
[00:47] <&Deck_Knight> What about Fire/Water?
[00:47] <verbatim> well here
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> deck_Knight give that
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> chlorophyll
[00:47] <%Rising_Dusk> Besides
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> and drizzle
[00:47] <+jas61292> I mean, especially with adaptability when STAB is more valuable
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> *swift swim
[00:47] <%Rising_Dusk> Adaptability doesnt help dem coverage.
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> everyone will whoop in joy
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> then realise
[00:47] <+jas61292> some coverage is not bad
[00:47] <Destiny_Warrior> that
[00:48] <Destiny_Warrior> a)aldaron's proposal is ine ffect
[00:48] <&Deck_Knight> We'll give it Adaptability Poison attacks and Focus Punch
[00:48] <Destiny_Warrior> b)sun and rain remove one of its stabs(effectivelU)
[00:48] <&Deck_Knight> So it can Sub and maul whatever :D
[00:48] <verbatim> night
[00:48] <%Rising_Dusk> Focus Punch yeaaaaah
[00:48] <%Rising_Dusk> That's actually a kind of cool idea.
[00:49] <%Rising_Dusk> Can sweep only under a sub, lol.
[00:49] <&Deck_Knight> Sub/Coil/Focus Punch/Gunk Shot
[00:49] <%Rising_Dusk> Pretty sure that Focus Punch would maul Skarmory.
[00:49] <phoopes> Yes.
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[00:49] <&Deck_Knight> Roost and die!
[00:50] <Destiny_Warrior> IF Skarmory Roosts THEN Skarmory dies
[00:50] <phoopes> Okay, Fighting type wall with 120/95/110 defenses or something cool like that is what I'll go for.
[00:50] <phoopes> Just to be different.
[00:50] <%Rising_Dusk> Meh.
[00:50] <%Rising_Dusk> All this discussion bothers me fundamentally.
[00:50] <%Rising_Dusk> It's all just about "this would be cool"
[00:50] <+DHR> Oh joy another bulky ass CaP
[00:51] <%Rising_Dusk> There's really nothing to be learned here.
[00:51] <Destiny_Warrior> I wonder what would happen if team preview
[00:51] <Destiny_Warrior> revealed items and moves next gen
[00:51] <phoopes> Oh, there are plenty of sweepers too.
[00:51] <%Rising_Dusk> The only question you can legit answer is "Will this work?"
[00:51] <%Rising_Dusk> That's it.
[00:51] <%Rising_Dusk> That's pathetic. ;_;
[00:51] <&Deck_Knight> I blame the system
[00:52] <+jas61292> The problem is that people look at Theorymon's and think oh, lets make a cool Pokemon with a bad typing, but don't think of trying to make the typing the strong point like the concept suggests
[00:52] <&Deck_Knight> Hmmm
[00:52] <&Deck_Knight> Maybe we can make a Steel/Rock Pokemon
[00:52] <%Rising_Dusk> Man.
[00:52] <%Rising_Dusk> I'm reading theorymon's questions.
[00:52] <&Deck_Knight> Those are infamously bad lol
[00:52] <%Rising_Dusk> They're all just rehashes of "Can this work and how?"
[00:53] <%Rising_Dusk> And yet they take up half a page in msword.
[00:53] <phoopes> Steel/Rock... how many of those are there? Aggron is the only one that comes to mind.
[00:53] <Destiny_Warrior> the questions to be answered part is generally iffy imo
[00:53] <+DHR> Bastiodon
[00:53] <%Rising_Dusk> Lol I hate that question.
[00:53] <%Rising_Dusk> The obligatory every-random-concept-asks-this-question.
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[00:53] <%Rising_Dusk> "How does the OU metagame react to this Pokemon????"
[00:54] <Destiny_Warrior> maybe scrapping that
[00:54] <phoopes> Oh, and Probopass.
[00:54] <Destiny_Warrior> in favour of another question
[00:54] <&Deck_Knight> AGGRON
[00:54] <Destiny_Warrior> might be a good idea
[00:54] <&Deck_Knight> I still think Fire/Rock is better than Poison though
[00:54] <%Rising_Dusk> I still think all of this depresses me a lot.
[00:54] <Destiny_Warrior> dusk what do you think
[00:54] <&Deck_Knight> WIN MAGCARGO'S HONOR!
[00:54] <Destiny_Warrior> every single concept
[00:54] <Destiny_Warrior> has "will this work" in some variant
[00:55] <%Rising_Dusk> In retrospect, I'll probably vote SubwayJ's over theorymon's in the last poll.
[00:55] <Destiny_Warrior> maybe replacing it with a different section
[00:55] <Destiny_Warrior> such as
[00:55] <Destiny_Warrior> idk
[00:55] <Destiny_Warrior> ideas anyone?
[00:55] <&Deck_Knight> I'm still pulling for SubwayJ, just because I think I can put the right controls on this experiment
[00:55] <Destiny_Warrior> right now the questions part is kind of redundant
[00:55] <%Rising_Dusk> You probably can.
[00:55] <%Rising_Dusk> And I'll still hate it.
[00:55] <Destiny_Warrior> in 90% of our concepts
[00:55] <%Rising_Dusk> But what does it matter what I think, lol.
[00:55] <&Deck_Knight> You had your chance as our overlord!
[00:55] <%Rising_Dusk> I know.
[00:56] <%Rising_Dusk> No CAP will ever be run as properly IMO as CAP 2.
[00:56] <+jas61292> Well, I have never liked a concept I was here for...
01[00:56] <+EspyOwner> ...
[00:56] <+jas61292> But I like the results
[00:56] <Destiny_Warrior> jas61292
[00:56] <Destiny_Warrior> tell me frankly
[00:56] <Destiny_Warrior> do you, like me,
[00:56] <Destiny_Warrior> thinkt he questions to be answered
[00:56] <+DHR> no
[00:56] <+DHR> :P
[00:56] <Destiny_Warrior> is mostly not that good in 95% of concepts
[00:56] <%Rising_Dusk> DW, do you know what a complete sentence is? :P
[00:56] <Destiny_Warrior> Dusk, this is all part of my quest for world domination.
[00:57] <%Rising_Dusk> Ofc.
[00:57] <%Rising_Dusk> lol
[00:57] <+jas61292> Uhh.....
[00:57] <Destiny_Warrior> I first make people think that I lack knowledge of what constitutes a complete sentence.
[00:57] <+jas61292> sure....
[00:57] <phoopes> Oh shit, I just realized I have to get up in 5 hours, even though it's a Saturday. -_-
[00:57] <&Deck_Knight> Program. Fragmented. Does. Not. Compute. Compute. Compute. Compuuuuuuuuuuuuuute
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[00:57] <+DHR> yay f1 coverage :D
[00:57] <Destiny_Warrior> Then I bamboozle everyone with a quick sucker punch, which comboes into a UAir chain.
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03[00:57] * BarackObama sets mode: +ao Deck_Knight Deck_Knight
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[00:58] <Destiny_Warrior> Finally, I DAir my rivals hard down, so I can take advantage of their weakness, to chaingrab them.
[00:58] <+jas61292> You do that
[00:58] <Destiny_Warrior> This eventually leads to world domination.
[00:58] <&Deck_Knight> Heh that was weird
[00:58] <Destiny_Warrior> Now jas, do you agree with me or not.
[00:58] <+jas61292> .....
[00:58] <+DHR> lol
[00:58] <%Rising_Dusk> Just say no.
[00:58] <%Rising_Dusk> Do us all a favor.
[00:58] <Destiny_Warrior> 7.7 RD
[00:58] <%Rising_Dusk> :P
[00:58] <+DHR> Its DW everyone always says no
[00:58] <+jas61292> Nah, I'll say yes. Just to be different
[00:58] <Destiny_Warrior> I jsut asked if he agreed with me that most of the "questions to be answered" sections in concepts are redundant
[00:58] <+jas61292> Now what was the question again
[00:58] <Destiny_Warrior> Thank you jas61292
[00:59] <%Rising_Dusk> Aha, I have succeeded!
[00:59] <+jas61292> Oh, yeah, kinda
[00:59] <%Rising_Dusk> I knew jas would go against my suggestion!
[00:59] <%Rising_Dusk> I WIN
[00:59] <+DHR> Reverse psychology :P
[00:59] <+jas61292> haha
[00:59] <Destiny_Warrior> lol
[00:59] <Destiny_Warrior> Really though, that might need some review.
[01:00] <+jas61292> I say no to him so often, I thought I would try something new
[01:00] <Destiny_Warrior> lol
[01:00] <&capefeather> <%Rising_Dusk> No CAP will ever be run as properly IMO as CAP 2.
[01:01] <&capefeather> "properly" can mean a few things here :P
[01:01] <%Rising_Dusk> It can, you're right!
[01:01] <&Deck_Knight> Speaking from the cheap mod seats, I'd say it could always use improvement.
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[01:03] <&capefeather> also you seem a bit more... idk, excitable? than usual
[01:03] <&capefeather> I can't put my finger on it
[01:03] <%Rising_Dusk> Who are you talking to?