2022.05.21 NetBSD AGM

20:43 -!- chung [~lim@ppp-223-24-189-254.revip6.asianet.co.th] has joined #netbsd-agm
20:43 -!- Topic for #netbsd-agm: The NetBSD Foundation Annual General Meeting 2022
20:43 -!- Topic set by Cryo [~cryo@netbsd/security/cryo] [Thu Apr 14 04:47:12 2022]
20:43 [Users #netbsd-agm]
20:43 [@leot     ] [ azel   ] [ Irvise_       ] [ molly     ] [ taca   ]
20:43 [@mlelstv  ] [ chung  ] [ isaki         ] [ n-soda    ] [ tnn    ]
20:43 [@Riastradh] [ d_m    ] [ Jaypatelani[m]] [ NanXiao[m]] [ travisp]
20:43 [@spz      ] [ Dosadih] [ jkoshy        ] [ nbjoerg   ] [ tse[m] ]
20:43 [+__martin ] [ DsP[m] ] [ JunEbihara    ] [ oen       ] [ tsutsui]
20:43 [+_wiz_    ] [ f8l    ] [ kikadf        ] [ oliv3     ] [ vezhlys]
20:43 [+drscream ] [ fcambus] [ Lateralus     ] [ oster_    ] [ wiedi  ]
20:43 [+racoon   ] [ fly    ] [ Lefinnois     ] [ palle     ]
20:43 [ acidsys  ] [ gnyeki ] [ logix         ] [ phaleon   ]
20:43 [ ahp_nils ] [ hannken] [ mac_call      ] [ pickles   ]
20:43 [ AmyMalik ] [ iMil   ] [ mishka        ] [ spamou    ]
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21:00 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v dh`] by spz
21:01 <@spz> Dear Gentlebeings,
21:01 <@spz> ,
21:01 -!- whatbh[m] [~whatbhmat@2001:470:69fc:105::1:f28b] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:01 <@spz> Welcome to the 2022 Annual General Meeting
21:01 <@spz> of The NetBSD Foundation.
21:01 <@spz> ,
21:01 -!- sborrill [~sborrill@82-71-24-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:01 <@spz> I am the moderator, i.e. voice-bot, for todays AGM.
21:01 <@spz> ,
21:01 <@spz> This is the agenda for this AGM:
21:01 <@spz> ,
21:01 <@spz> Intro
21:01 <@spz> ,
21:01 <@spz> Reports from:
21:01 <@spz> * board
21:01 <@spz> * communications
21:01 <@spz> * finance-exec
21:01 <@spz> * membership-exec
21:01 <@spz> * admins
21:01 <@spz> * core
21:01 <@spz> * security-team
21:01 <@spz> * releng
21:01 <@spz> * pkgsrc-pmc
21:02 <@spz> * pkgsrc-security
21:02 <@spz> * pkgbuild
21:02 <@spz> * gnats
21:02 <@spz> ,
21:02 <@spz> Are there any last-minute additions to the reports? msg me.
21:02 <@spz> ,
21:02 <@spz> Q&A session for all of the above, and general questions.
21:02 <@spz> ,
21:02 <@spz> When Q&A begins, msg me "I have a question for <team>"
21:02 <@spz> or "I have a question for <nick>" and I will give you voice
21:02 <@spz> when it's your turn.
21:02 <@spz> ,
21:03 <@spz> Here comes leot with the intro,
21:03 <@spz> followed by the reports by board and communication:
21:04 <@leot> Hello everyone and welcome! (this report was prepared by Cryo)
21:04 <@leot> -
21:04 <@leot> Hello, and welcome to the 20th Annual General Meeting of The
21:04 <@leot> NetBSD Foundation.
21:04 <@leot> -
21:04 <@leot> First off, I'd like to thank spz (AGAIN) for volunteering to
21:04 <@leot> handle moderating and admins for doing the behind the scenes
21:04 <@leot> magic to make this event (and all our communication) possible.
21:04 <@leot> -
21:04 <@leot> Second, let me take a moment of your time to say that
21:04 <@leot> we have all had a tough couple of years enduring a pandemic
21:04 <@leot> that has cost some of us quite a bit.  No one expected that
21:04 <@leot> it would last this long, or that the geopolitical and social
21:04 <@leot> climates would have resulted in where we are now. I hope that
21:04 <@leot> you are well and safe during these unstable times we live in now.
21:05 <@leot> NetBSD and Pkgsrc continue to make improvements during this,
21:05 <@leot> albeit a little slower. We are on the cusp of branching NetBSD-10
21:05 <@leot> after 3 years of development with a slew of new features,
21:05 <@leot> improvements, and squished bugs. Your commits are very much
21:05 <@leot> appreciated, as is your continued support of the foundation.
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21:05 <@leot> -
21:05 <@leot> Now on to the report from the Board of Directors:
21:05 <@leot> -
21:05 <@leot> The NetBSD Foundation Board of Directors presents a consolidated
21:05 <@leot> list of the relevant and major actions that occurred since last
21:05 <@leot> AGM.  Quite a few discussions, actions, and follow-ups crossed
21:05 <@leot> multiple meetings. Very few meetings resulted in not reaching
21:05 <@leot> quorum. Check our weekly meeting minutes in:
21:05 <@leot> localsrc/tnf/board/minutes for the latest on our progress.
21:05 <@leot> During this period, new directors were elected by the members
21:05 <@leot> and officers were renewed or installed.
21:05 <@leot> -
21:06 <@leot> We continued our support of BSDcan, AsiaBSDcon, and
21:06 <@leot> EuroBSDcon to improve our representation at conferences and
21:06 <@leot> developer summits.  Due to the never-ending pandemic, the
21:06 <@leot> continued cancellations and move to virtual summits, any approved
21:06 <@leot> contributions will be continue to be shifted until we can once
21:06 <@leot> again meet somewhere in the future.
21:06 <@leot> -
21:06 <@leot> We participated in the Google Summer of Code for 2021 but there
21:06 <@leot> was no virtual Google Summer of Code Mentor Summit. We are
21:06 <@leot> currently participating in GSoC this year with 5 students!
21:06 <@leot> -
21:06 <@leot> Like last year, we have provided core with a pre-approved,
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21:06 <@leot> reasonable budget, to spend as they see most fit without an
21:06 <@leot> additional confirmation step from us.
21:06 <@leot> -
21:07 <@leot> We continued to improve our interaction and relationships with
21:07 <@leot> vendors, as well as participating in industry PSIRT/CSIRT
21:07 <@leot> with commercial vendors and other open-source projects.
21:07 <@leot> -
21:07 <@leot> The funded contracts continued for:
21:07 <@leot> o - improvements in release engineering by martin
21:07 <@leot> o - improvements in WiFi by martin
21:07 <@leot> -
21:07 <@leot> We completed a fundraising campaign, started a new one, and
21:07 <@leot> many many other minor things.
21:07 <@leot> -
21:07 <@leot> We would like to thank the vote coordinator, vote validator, and
21:08 <@leot> nomcom for the handling of last year's slate.  The new voting
21:08 <@leot> system was approved by the members, and we are starting the
21:08 <@leot> use of it for board seat openings very very shortly.
21:08 <@leot> -
21:08 <@leot> It has been an honor and pleasure to continue working with
21:08 <@leot> leot, mef, mlelstv, nia, riastradh, and wiz to accomplish all
21:08 <@leot> that we have in this year.
21:08 <@leot> -
21:08 <@leot> Respectfully submitted on behalf of the Board of Directors
21:08 <@leot> .eof
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21:10 <@leot> Here the report from communication prepared by <billc> and <nia>, thanks!:
21:10 <@leot> -
21:10 <@leot> A non-scientific representation of Social Media Presence:
21:10 <@leot> -
21:10 <@leot> Twitter: (very active)
21:10 <@leot> @netbsd has 10,000 followers up from 9,490
21:10 <@leot> @pkgsrc has 685 followers up from 639
21:10 <@leot> -
21:10 <@leot> We have created an account on the distributed social network
21:10 <@leot> ActivityPub ('the fediverse'), where we have a small but
21:10 <@leot> dedicated fan base.
21:10 <@leot> @netbsd@mastodon.sdf.org has 230 followers (very active)
21:10 <@leot> -
21:10 <@leot> Facebook: 2,000 up from 1,900 members (sort of active)
21:10 <@leot> -
21:10 <@leot> Since we moved from FreeNode, to Libera.chat our numbers have
21:10 <@leot> stabilized. To help improve connectivity, we have created a
21:10 <@leot> Matrix bridge to our IRC channel.
21:11 <@leot> Libera IRC users: (very very active)
21:11 <@leot> #NetBSD: 228 down from 248
21:11 <@leot> #NetBSD-code: 59 up from 56
21:11 <@leot> #pkgsrc: 102 up from 92
21:11 <@leot> -
21:11 <@leot> .eof
21:11 <@spz> thank you leot
21:11 <@spz> next presentation is for finance-exec by Riastradh
21:12 <@Riastradh> Hi!  I'm Riastradh on finance-exec.  We maintain The NetBSD
21:12 <@Riastradh> Foundation's financial records and assets at board's direction.
21:12 <@Riastradh> We make sure the books are balanced and and send thank-you
21:12 <@Riastradh> letters to donors so they can get tax deductions (in the US).
21:12 <@Riastradh> We are:
21:12 <@Riastradh> - riastradh
21:12 <@Riastradh> - christos
21:12 <@Riastradh> .
21:12 <@Riastradh> We keep the books with ledger-cli <https://www.ledger-cli.org/>,
21:12 <@Riastradh> which we've been doing for a few years now, and use it to
21:12 <@Riastradh> prepare the public financial report and internal reports with
21:12 <@Riastradh> more detail.  This way we have an audit trail, under source
21:12 <@Riastradh> control, for all changes to the log of all transactions by TNF,
21:12 <@Riastradh> which we reconcile with statements from financial institutions
21:12 <@Riastradh> and payment processors.
21:12 <@Riastradh> .
21:12 <@Riastradh> The NetBSD Foundation's public 2021 financial report is at:
21:12 <@Riastradh> https://www.NetBSD.org/foundation/reports/financial/2021.html
21:12 <@Riastradh> .
21:12 <@Riastradh> Highlights:
21:12 <@Riastradh> - We have net assets of a bit over 200k USD.
21:12 <@Riastradh> - We took in >50k USD last year -- hooray!
21:12 <@Riastradh> - Not only that, but our expenses were unusually low, <20k USD.
21:12 <@Riastradh>   => It's good that we did better than break even!
21:12 <@Riastradh>   => But it also means we're not doing enough with the money.
21:12 <@Riastradh>   => (How to spend money is up to board and core.)
21:12 <@Riastradh> - (That said, we are still bad at fundraising.)
21:12 <@Riastradh> .
21:13 <@Riastradh> This year, in view of the high level of inflation since the
21:13 <@Riastradh> pandemic, the board authorized finance-exec to invest funds in
21:13 <@Riastradh> broad-market low-cost passively managed index funds in stocks and
21:13 <@Riastradh> bonds instead of just cash accounts -- which we maybe should have
21:13 <@Riastradh> done years ago since our net assets are substantially higher than
21:13 <@Riastradh> our annual revenue and expenses.  But finance-exec prudently
21:13 <@Riastradh> waited for the recent market crash so we haven't lost anything!
21:13 <@Riastradh> (Except the value of the USD due to inflation.)
21:13 <@Riastradh> .
21:13 <@Riastradh> Happy to answer any questions about what finance-exec does!
21:13 <@Riastradh> Thanks, -finance-exec
21:14 <@spz> Thanks Riastradh
21:14 <@spz> next we're getting the report from membership-exec by wiz
21:14 <+_wiz_> thanks, spz
21:14 <+_wiz_> The current members of membership-exec are:
21:14 <+_wiz_>     - Christos Zoulas <christos>
21:14 <+_wiz_>     - Martin Husemann <martin>
21:14 <+_wiz_>     - Lex Wennmacher <wennmach>
21:14 <+_wiz_>     - Thomas Klausner <wiz>, and
21:14 <+_wiz_>     - Ken Hornstein <kenh> who is on sabbatical.
21:14 <+_wiz_> -
21:14 <+_wiz_> Membership-exec is responsible for all aspects of
21:14 <+_wiz_> "membership", but in practice the main task is to handle
21:14 <+_wiz_> membership applications. The number of active developers
21:14 <+_wiz_> (as of 2022-05-21) is 144 (down from 152 last year). As
21:14 <+_wiz_> in the last years, Thomas Klausner <wiz> conducted an
21:14 <+_wiz_> account cleanup.
21:14 <+_wiz_> -
21:14 <+_wiz_> Since the last AGM we gained 8 new developers and,
21:14 <+_wiz_> mostly due to the account cleanup, lost 16.
21:14 <+_wiz_> -
21:15 <+_wiz_> The difference between developers and active developers
21:15 <+_wiz_> is explained in the bylaws - an active developer has
21:15 <+_wiz_> actually committed something in the last year, or contributed
21:15 <+_wiz_> in an active way, like admins.
21:15 <+_wiz_> -
21:15 <+_wiz_> We'd like to emphasize that we appreciate all your replies
21:15 <+_wiz_> to our membership RFC e-mails, although we do not usually
21:15 <+_wiz_> acknowledge them. Please keep on providing feedback to
21:15 <+_wiz_> the RFC mails.
21:15 <+_wiz_> that's it from membership-exec.
21:15 <@spz> Donning my admins? hat:
21:15 <@spz> good localtime() all
21:15 <@spz> ,
21:16 <@spz> admins is the following people:
21:16 <@spz> christos, dogcow, gendalia, mspo, phil, riastradh, riz, seb, soda, spz, tls
21:16 <@spz> ,
21:16 <@spz> Statistics:
21:16 <@spz> - admins runs the following TNF systems:
21:16 <@spz> @ TastyLime
21:16 <@spz> + 8 hardware systems and 6 Xen guests
21:16 <@spz> = 1 earmv7hf, the rest amd64
21:16 <@spz> @ Columbia University
21:16 <@spz> + 11 hardware systems and 4 Xen guests,
21:16 <@spz> = 2 i386 guests, the rest amd64
21:16 <@spz> @ Washington University
21:16 <@spz> + 7 hardware systems and 2 Xen guests
21:16 <@spz> = 1 earmv7hf and the rest amd64
21:16 <@spz> @ Regensburg (commercial housing)
21:17 <@spz> + 2 hardware systems, one of them with 2 Xen guests,
21:17 <@spz> = all amd64
21:17 <@spz> ,
21:17 <@spz> - CDN services donated by Fastly
21:17 <@spz> ,
21:17 <@spz> NetBSD versions in use:
21:17 <@spz> 3   pre-8.1
21:17 <@spz> 3   8.1_STABLE
21:17 <@spz> 4   9.0_STABLE
21:17 <@spz> 7   9.1_STABLE
21:17 <@spz> 12  9.2_STABLE
21:17 <@spz> 2   currentish
21:17 <@spz> ,
21:17 <@spz> Changes in use of system:
21:17 <@spz> the two armbulk builders have been retired: the aarch64 system @WWU builds
21:18 <@spz> their packages faster and with less fuss.
21:18 <@spz> ,
21:18 <@spz> Notable plans are to get all 8.x systems updated.
21:18 <@spz> ,
21:18 <@spz> Thanks to riz, tls and phil for their resources, time
21:18 <@spz> and blood sacrifices, too. :}
21:18 <@spz> ,
21:18 <@spz> Back to moderator.
21:18 <@spz> ,
21:18 <@spz> The next three reports will be given by __martin, for core, security-team and re
21:18 <@spz> leng:
21:19 <+__martin> hello everyone - here is the core report:
21:19 <+__martin>
21:19 <+__martin> Core's job is to provide technical leadership for the
21:19 <+__martin> project, manage funded projects, create roadmaps for
21:19 <+__martin> the future of the project, and resolve disputes.
21:19 <+__martin> Although we mean well, we have been doing less that
21:19 <+__martin> what we've hoped to achieve, and we welcome help.
21:19 <+__martin>
21:19 <+__martin> Our group is:
21:19 <+__martin>    Alistair Crooks <agc@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>    Christos Zoulas <christos@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>    Chuck Silvers <chs@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>    Robert Elz <kre@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>    Martin Husemann <martin@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>    Matthew Green <mrg@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>    Taylor R Campbell <riastradh@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>
21:19 <+__martin> The group can be reached at <core@NetBSD.org>
21:19 <+__martin>
21:19 <+__martin> One of the tasks of the core team is to oversee,
21:19 <+__martin> initiate and approve funded projects. We had a few of
21:19 <+__martin> those in the last year and a few ongoing and planned
21:19 <+__martin> for the future.
21:19 <+__martin>
21:19 <+__martin>  - Martin working on merging wifi from FreeBSD, with
21:19 <+__martin>    nat@ and a student of Phil (James Browning) helping
21:19 <+__martin>    a lot.
21:19 <+__martin>  - releng work (martin)
21:20 <+__martin>  - last year we only received one GSoC slot, but had another
21:20 <+__martin>    worthwhile proposal, funded a second student implementing
21:20 <+__martin>    a posix_spawn(2) extension to support chdir(2). The
21:20 <+__martin>    official GSoC project failed, but the TNF funded student
21:20 <+__martin>    succeeded and the code has been merged. The same student
21:20 <+__martin>    is doing another project in this years GSoC.
21:20 <+__martin>  - this year we got five projects for GSoC (more details
21:20 <+__martin>    to be annouced shortly).
21:20 <+__martin>    One of them is trying to get the Raspberry PI GPU
21:20 <+__martin>    supported (via a kernel module),
21:20 <+__martin>    one is about automation of some tedious and time-
21:20 <+__martin>    consuming semi-manual jobs that finance-exec is doing
21:20 <+__martin>    now when we receive donations.
21:20 <+__martin>    Another one is about adding support for two more wifi
21:20 <+__martin>    chipsets on top of the wifi renovation work.
21:20 <+__martin>    The other two are enhancements to linux emulation
21:20 <+__martin>    and improvements for inetd.
21:20 <+__martin>
21:20 <+__martin> We are always open for suggestion from developers who would
21:20 <+__martin> like to work on specific topics that require larger
21:20 <+__martin> work or have been long neglected and need cleanup.
21:20 <+__martin>
21:20 <+__martin> Another task of the core team is to resolve disputes
21:20 <+__martin> between developers and provide ruling for contested
21:20 <+__martin> issues. This year was quiet in this regard, besides
21:20 <+__martin> one open item where we have to decide how to deal with
21:20 <+__martin> userland requests for strong entropy. A public
21:20 <+__martin> statement about our ruling on this is being worked on.
21:21 <+__martin>
21:21 <+__martin> This needs to happen before the NetBSD 10 release.
21:21 <+__martin> Next thing after that we plan to have the wifi work
21:21 <+__martin> merged into -current (about one month after the
21:21 <+__martin> netbsd-10 branch started), which initially might break
21:21 <+__martin> a few chipsets. Hopefully this will be fixable
21:21 <+__martin> quickly. Help from everyone with access to (supported)
21:21 <+__martin> wifi hardware will be appreciated!
21:21 <+__martin>
21:21 <+__martin> The most painful task for core is to automatically be
21:21 <+__martin> part of the security team and acting as fallback to make
21:21 <+__martin> sure that security issues are handled in a timely fashion.
21:21 <+__martin> Please consider joining our security team to help.
21:21 <+__martin>
21:21 <+__martin> Another way you can help the core team is to take over
21:21 <+__martin> maintenance of some of our big 3rd party software.
21:21 <+__martin> Currently most of this is done by both christos@ and mrg@,
21:21 <+__martin> who could use more time for core and other business.
21:21 <+__martin> If you feel you could help, please contact the current
21:21 <+__martin> maintainer (see src/doc/3RDPARTY).
21:21 <+__martin> thats it for core, happy to take questions later
21:22 <+__martin> now for security team, this report was prepared mostly by shm:
21:22 <+__martin> This is a brief report for security-team.
21:22 <+__martin> -
21:22 <+__martin> Since the last AGM, we have released two
21:22 <+__martin> Security Advisories:
21:22 <+__martin>
21:22 <+__martin> * NetBSD-SA2022-001 PPPoE discovery phase memory corruption
21:22 <+__martin> * NetBSD-SA2021-002 Incorrect permissions in kernfs
21:22 <+__martin>
21:22 <+__martin> Another SA for the recent mail.local(8) fixes is about
21:22 <+__martin> to be published.
21:22 <+__martin> -
21:22 <+__martin> We'd like to encourage the NetBSD project members
21:22 <+__martin> participate in the security-team work. The process of
21:22 <+__martin> writing advisories and handling the patches is
21:22 <+__martin> time-consuming but rewarding: one gets to learn about
21:22 <+__martin> different ways used to subvert security which in turn
21:22 <+__martin> improves their ability to write secure code, implement
21:22 <+__martin> security fixes, and at the same time learn how to
21:22 <+__martin> convey complex technical concepts in clear and concise
21:22 <+__martin> manners.  Because we are short-handed, we are slow
21:22 <+__martin> analyzing issues, responding to known ones, or we are
21:22 <+__martin> delayed on publishing already corrected security
21:22 <+__martin> vulnerabilities. To be able to be more responsive, we
21:22 <+__martin> need more hands on board! Feel free to contact us at
21:22 <+__martin> security-team@.
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21:23 <+__martin> -
21:23 <+__martin> Additionally we invite you to share with the team all
21:23 <+__martin> your concerns about security of the NetBSD code,
21:23 <+__martin> especially if you feel that the bug you just fixed
21:23 <+__martin> could be connected with security. If you have any
21:23 <+__martin> questions or ideas how to improve, we are here to
21:23 <+__martin> help.
21:23 <+__martin> -
21:23 <+__martin> NetBSD continues to be represented in a product
21:23 <+__martin> security incident response working group with other
21:23 <+__martin> operating system vendors (CERT/VINCE/FULL DISCLOSURE)
21:23 <+__martin> as well as software package distributors
21:23 <+__martin> (ISC/OpenSSL/NTP), and we are in direct contact with
21:23 <+__martin> the security teams of the other BSD projects.
21:23 <+__martin> This framework allows us to better work with vendors
21:23 <+__martin> requiring an embargoed and/or coordinated release with
21:23 <+__martin> other operating systems. We can begin working on
21:23 <+__martin> issues that affect NetBSD much faster, instead of
21:23 <+__martin> only notified after an embargo is lifted.
21:23 <+__martin> -
21:23 <+__martin> Submitted respectfully on behalf of the
21:23 <+__martin> security-officer(s),the security-team, and the sirt team.
21:24 <+__martin> that's it for security-team, moving on the releng-hat
21:24 <+__martin> We are:
21:24 <+__martin>   abs agc bouyer he jdc martin msaitoh phil reed riz
21:24 <+__martin>   sborrill snj
21:24 <+__martin>
21:24 <+__martin> Since the last meeting, we have:
21:24 <+__martin>
21:24 <+__martin> - Released nothing (doh!) - last release (9.2) predates the last
21:24 <+__martin>   meeting by a few days
21:24 <+__martin> - Processed hundreds of pullup requests.
21:24 <+__martin> - Started initial preparations to make the build cluster
21:24 <+__martin>   independend from cvs (and also encouraged some developers
21:24 <+__martin>   to experiment with off-the-shelf alternatives)
21:24 <+__martin>
21:24 <+__martin> Similar to the last two years meeting we hoped to have
21:24 <+__martin> branched for NetBSD 10 by now, but even now it has not
21:24 <+__martin> yet happend - we are past the publicaly announced
21:24 <+__martin> branch plan by slightly more than a week now.
21:25 <+__martin> All but one blockers for the branch have been resolved
21:25 <+__martin> by now, and the final one (new getentropy(2)) will
21:25 <+__martin> have to wait for netbsd-11 if it does not get into
21:25 <+__martin> tree within the next few days.
21:25 <+__martin> The major challenges for netbsd-10 and a smooth release
21:25 <+__martin> are
21:25 <+__martin>  - new bugs in the new DRM code (e.g. black screen on
21:25 <+__martin>    many i915 machines)
21:25 <+__martin>  - handling of entropy (to block or not to block,
21:25 <+__martin>    informally know as "waiting for randot" - we expect
21:25 <+__martin>    a core resolution on that (but this does not delay
21:25 <+__martin>    the branch itself)
21:25 -!- dave0 [~dave0@069.d.003.ncl.iprimus.net.au] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:25 <+__martin>
21:25 <+__martin> Once the netbsd-10 branch is on its way we hope for a
21:25 <+__martin> fast and smooth release cycle, but the major killer
21:25 <+__martin> will be DRM bugs and it is not easy to estimate how
21:25 <+__martin> fast they can be fixed. Optimistically we hope to not
21:25 <+__martin> need more than three month from branch to final
21:25 <+__martin> release.
21:25 <+__martin> Midway during that netbsd-10 branch beta phase, we
21:25 <+__martin> plan to do a 9.3 release. Quite a bit of changes
21:25 <+__martin> happened on the branch since 9.2.
21:25 <+__martin>
21:26 <+__martin> Another release for the netbsd-8 branch
21:26 <+__martin> will happen too, but likely not too soon. We will
21:26 <+__martin> desupport it a month after the NetBSD 10.0 release.
21:26 <+__martin>
21:26 <+__martin> To close, I would like to remind everyone that release
21:26 <+__martin> branches only improve because developers took the time
21:26 <+__martin> to test their changes on the branch and submit a
21:26 <+__martin> pullup request. We have been pretty good with this,
21:26 <+__martin> and pulled up lots of security and usability improvements,
21:26 <+__martin> as well as bug fixes to the various active branches.
21:26 <+__martin> This is good for our users, thank you to everyone who
21:26 <+__martin> cared and made it possible.
21:26 <@spz> Thanks martin
21:26 <@spz> and we'll be having wiz again for pkgsrc-pmc
21:26 <+_wiz_> this presentation was prepared by gdt
21:26 <+_wiz_> -
21:26 <+_wiz_> The pkgsrc team kept pkgsrc-current up to date and in good working
21:26 <+_wiz_> order, and delivered four -- the 71st through 74th -- stable branches,
21:26 <+_wiz_> both source code and binary packages.  The big point is that no one
21:26 <+_wiz_> found this surprising.
21:26 <+_wiz_> -
21:27 <+_wiz_> The pkgsrc team has welcomed a number of new developers.
21:27 <+_wiz_> -
21:27 <+_wiz_> pkgsrc continues to use the process started last year for assessing
21:27 <+_wiz_> binary package sets before flipping the default symlink to them, and
21:27 <+_wiz_> thus causing binary package users to use them.  The goal is to make
21:27 <+_wiz_> sure enough resolvable issues have been resolved before the switch, so
21:27 <+_wiz_> that users don't update and then not have e.g. firefox.  Thanks to
21:27 <+_wiz_> nia@ for the idea and doing the assessing and symlink changing.
21:27 <+_wiz_> -
21:27 <+_wiz_> Some upstream packages continue to fail to build on some platforms.
21:27 <+_wiz_> While pkgsrc has attempted to mitigate this, older platforms such as
21:27 <+_wiz_> NetBSD 8 -- even more than a year ago -- are increasingly losing some
21:27 <+_wiz_> packages that have complicated and difficult build requirements.
21:27 <+_wiz_> -
21:27 <+_wiz_> Rust support still requires significant effort, but during the past
21:27 <+_wiz_> year this has been routine.
21:27 <+_wiz_> -
21:27 <+_wiz_> We continue to prune abandoned-by-upstream and broken packages at the
21:27 <+_wiz_> more aggressive pace mentioned in last year's report, with no broad
21:27 <+_wiz_> complaints.
21:27 <+_wiz_> -
21:27 <+_wiz_> As noted in last year's report, at the end of 2020 we switched the
21:27 <+_wiz_> default path for the PKGDB on NetBSD from /var/db/pkg to
21:27 <+_wiz_> ${PREFIX}/pkgdb.  We continue to see some issues among the user
21:27 <+_wiz_> community about this, but much less.
21:27 <+_wiz_> -
21:28 <+_wiz_> Besides the usual, we are currently assessing the speed of bulk
21:28 <+_wiz_> builds, in order to understand what can be done to deliver binary
21:28 <+_wiz_> packages faster after a branch.
21:28 <+_wiz_> -
21:28 <+_wiz_>   -- gdt, for pkgsrc-pmc
21:28 <@spz> Thanks wiz
21:28 <@spz> drscream is presenting for pkgsrc-security
21:28 <+drscream> The mission of the pkgsrc Security Team is to ensure that the ever-growing
21:28 <+drscream> ecosystem of third party software is either safe to use or at least be sure
21:28 <+drscream> people are aware of the known vulnerabilities.
21:28 <+drscream>         -
21:28 <+drscream> Our members monitor publicly available vulnerability feeds, mainly CVE.
21:28 <+drscream>         -
21:28 <+drscream> We aggregate received advisories believed to impact pkgsrc into the pkgsrc
21:28 <+drscream> vulnerability list. When time allows we try to notify individual package
21:28 <+drscream> MAINTAINERs and locate, commit patches to fix the vulnerabilities.
21:28 <+drscream>         -
21:28 <+drscream> Since 2021 our ticket handling crew is currently only 2 people, unfortunately
21:28 <+drscream> pretty understaffed. We are looking and welcome people volunteering to join
21:28 <+drscream> us!
21:28 <+drscream>         -
21:29 <+drscream> Currently handling tickets are:
21:29 <+drscream>  - Leonardo Taccari <leot>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Thomas Merkel <tm>
21:29 <+drscream>         -
21:29 <+drscream> The other current members of the team are:
21:29 <+drscream>  - Alistair G. Crooks <agc>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Daniel Horecki <morr>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Thomas Klausner <wiz>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Tobias Nygren <tnn>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Ryo ONODERA <ryoon>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Travis Paul <tpaul>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Fredrik Pettai <pettai>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Joerg Sonnenberger <joerg>
21:29 <+drscream>  - Tim Zingelman <tez>
21:29 <+drscream>         -
21:29 <+drscream> The year in numbers:
21:29 <+drscream> In 2021, the vulnerability list had 2070 lines added to it (338 more than last
21:29 <+drscream> year) for a total of 22456 known vulnerabilities.
21:29 <+drscream> In 2021, the ticket queue received 21960 new advisories (7887 less than last
21:29 <+drscream> year). Of these 21960 new advisories:
21:29 <+drscream>  stalled:  22    ( 0.1%)
21:29 <+drscream>  resolved: 1881  ( 8.6%) (affecting pkgsrc packages)
21:29 -!- jnemeth [~jnemeth@S01060014bf54acb5.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:29 <+drscream>  rejected: 20057 (91.3%) (no impact or duplicates)
21:29 <+drscream>         -
21:30 <+drscream> The current count of vulnerable packages in pkgsrc-current is 728 (51 more
21:30 <+drscream> than last year), in pkgsrc-stable is 733 (37 more than last year).
21:30 <+drscream> See the periodic email to packages@NetBSD.org for the list.  We can always
21:30 <+drscream> use help locating and committing security patches, in particular for the
21:30 <+drscream> many of these that are maintained by pkgsrc-users.
21:30 <+drscream>         -
21:30 <+drscream> We encourage all developers to help us keep the vulnerability list up-to-date.
21:30 <+drscream> If you become aware of a security issue or perform a security update in pkgsrc
21:30 <+drscream> please edit the list. You don't need any special privilege for this.
21:30 <+drscream> You'll find the list in localsrc CVS repository:
21:30 <+drscream>  localsrc/security/advisories/pkg-vulnerabilities
21:30 <+drscream> The team periodically signs off and uploads new revisions to ftp.NetBSD.org.
21:30 <+drscream> If you prefer, you can contact us to make the edits, just by emailing the
21:30 <+drscream> info to pkgsrc-security@.
21:30 <+drscream>         -
21:30 <+drscream> Please join the pkgsrc Security ticket handling crew, we're pretty understaffed
21:30 <+drscream> at the moment! Feel free to get in touch with us for additional details or an
21:30 <+drscream> introduction.
21:30 <+drscream>         -
21:30 <+drscream> EOF
21:30 <@spz> Thanks drscream
21:31 <@spz> racoon reports on pkgbuilding
21:31 <+racoon> gentlebeings, this presentation is on behalf of pkgbuild
21:31 <+racoon> (the team responsible for building third-party software
21:31 <+racoon> packages for NetBSD).  Sorry that it will likely duplicate
21:31 <+racoon> some info from pkgsrc-pmc@.
21:31 <+racoon> .
21:31 <+racoon> While pkgsrc has made great strides in stability in the last
21:31 <+racoon> few years, some challenges remain for the package building
21:31 <+racoon> team in ensuring quality binary package sets for NetBSD.
21:31 <+racoon> .
21:31 <+racoon> The NetBSD 9 system C++ compiler is starting to show its age
21:31 <+racoon> with a lack of support for certain C++17 features, and
21:31 <+racoon> difficulties substituting the system compiler on some ARM
21:31 <+racoon> variants is hurting the quality of the builds.  We are doing
21:31 <+racoon> our best to rapidly adapt pkgsrc for this.  NetBSD 8 packages
21:31 <+racoon> will stay at older versions due to similar, but more
21:31 <+racoon> pronounced difficulties.
21:31 <+racoon> .
21:32 <+racoon> The NetBSD Foundation has provided increasing access to
21:32 <+racoon> powerful hardware that enables us to get out new package
21:32 <+racoon> updates quicker than ever before.  However, x86 still lags
21:32 <+racoon> behind in speed, mostly due to a lack of parallelization in
21:32 <+racoon> the older building infrastructure compared to our speedy
21:32 <+racoon> AArch64 efforts.
21:32 <+racoon> .
21:32 <+racoon> Tests have shown that pkgsrc is very much ready for
21:32 <+racoon> NetBSD 10, and we hope to publish a quality, complete set of
21:32 <+racoon> binary packages before the release to enable in-depth
21:32 <+racoon> testing by users.
21:32 <+racoon> eof
21:32 <@spz> thanks racoon
21:33 <@spz> and a report from our chief entomologist dh` on our gnats stats:
21:33 -!- rnelson [sid392133@id-392133.hampstead.irccloud.com] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:33 <+dh`> Here's the bug database report since the last AGM (12 months):
21:33 <+dh`>
21:33 <+dh`> GNATS statistics for 2021 (as of May 21 2022)
21:33 <+dh`>
21:33 <+dh`> New PRs this year: 653, of which 400 are still open.
21:33 <+dh`> Closed PRs this year: 679. Net change: -26.
21:33 <+dh`> Total PRs touched this year: 1145.
21:33 <+dh`> Oldest PR touched this year: 2726.
21:33 <+dh`> Oldest open PR: 1677; PR ignored for the longest: 3019.
21:33 <+dh`>
21:33 <+dh`> Total number open: 5947
21:33 <+dh`>
21:33 <+dh`> This year after working the overall count down over the summer it
21:33 <+dh`> gradually crept back again, until we once again bumped 6000 last
21:33 <+dh`> month. It is down again, though not really by enough yet. This is the
21:33 <+dh`> weekly plot:
21:33 <+dh`>
21:33 <+dh`>                                                  **      6030
21:33 <+dh`>    **                                   **************
21:33 <+dh`>    ******                            *******************
21:33 <+dh`>    ********              **    ** **********************
21:33 <+dh`>    ********* *      ************************************
21:33 <+dh`>    ***************************************************** 5880
21:33 <+dh`>
21:33 -!- JamesL [~JamesL@cpe-76-176-48-23.san.res.rr.com] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:33 <+dh`> The variation seen in this graph is only around 2% of the total, which
21:33 <+dh`> is both good and bad; bad because there are still far too many
21:33 <+dh`> outstanding PRs and we lose track of things, but good in that the
21:33 <+dh`> count is not just growing without bound as has happened in some
21:33 <+dh`> periods in the past. That was how we got to the point of having 6000
21:33 <+dh`> open reports.
21:33 <+dh`>
21:34 <+dh`> On the minus side, we are slightly ahead this year partly because
21:34 <+dh`> fewer PRs came in this year (last year there were 879) -- since
21:34 <+dh`> there's some reason to think this is a function of the community
21:34 <+dh`> engagement level as much as anything else, it's a mixed blessing.
21:34 <+dh`>
21:34 -!- tamwile [~user@2a01:e34:ec06:13a0:2ab1:807:3a89:2ff7] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:34 <+dh`> If anyone was wondering, the oldest open PR (PR 1677) is about a panic
21:34 <+dh`> in unionfs, and the most untouched PR (PR 3019) is about NFS export
21:34 <+dh`> permissions being per-volume rather than controllable on an individual
21:34 <+dh`> subtree basis. Both of these are fairly intractable problems, but it
21:34 <+dh`> would certainly be nice to see either retired this coming year if
21:34 <+dh`> anyone feels the urge.
21:34 <+dh`>
21:34 <+dh`> Here are the people who've been fixing the most bugs, as counted by
21:34 <+dh`> commit messages found in PRs closed during the year.
21:34 <+dh`>
21:34 <+dh`>   26  dholland@netbsd.org
21:34 <+dh`>   26  gutteridge@netbsd.org
21:34 <+dh`>   29  nia@netbsd.org
21:34 <+dh`>   32  rin@netbsd.org
21:34 <+dh`>   41  christos@netbsd.org
21:34 <+dh`>
21:34 <+dh`> This list has a very long tail; there are 65 people who've fixed or
21:34 <+dh`> helped fix at least one bug report. Thanks to one and all.
21:34 <+dh`>
21:34 <@spz> Thanks dh
21:34 <+dh`> (That's 65 developers, not counting patches)
21:35 <+dh`> And here are those who've been processing pullups, according to the
21:35 <+dh`> same analysis:
21:35 <+dh`>
21:35 <+dh`>    1  spz@netbsd.org (releng)
21:35 <+dh`>    1  tm@netbsd.org (releng)
21:35 <+dh`>    8  snj@netbsd.org (releng)
21:35 <+dh`>    9  bsiegert@netbsd.org (releng)
21:35 <+dh`>   47  martin@netbsd.org (releng)
21:35 <+dh`>
21:35 <+dh`> As in several past years, Martin's being doing nearly all the work.
21:35 <+dh`> Many, many thanks, Martin.
21:35 <+dh`>
21:35 <+dh`> (eot)
21:35 <@spz> Sorry for the premature interruption, thanks dh
21:35 <@spz> Now Q&A begins, msg me "I have a question for <team>"
21:35 <+dh`> no worries
21:35 <@spz> or "I have a question for <nick>" and I will give you voice
21:37 <@spz> no-one has any questions?
21:37 <+racoon> I have a question for releng
21:38 -!- hxd [~hxd@217.138.222.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
21:38 <+racoon> how likely is it that netbsd-10 will ship without getentropy/getrandom ABI changes at the current pace?
21:38 <@Riastradh> not likely, working on it right now
21:38 <+racoon> do we have a rough (revised?) timeframe for the release?
21:39 <+__martin> branch early next week, release in 3 month if DRM plays well
21:39 <+racoon> thank you, __martin and Riastradh
21:39 <@spz> next question is by Irvise_ to core
21:39 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v Irvise_] by spz
21:40 <+Irvise_> Hi, I recently updated support of GCC-Ada in pkgsrc. I also tried integrating it into core. However, there seems to be a lot of patches in coreutils, gcc and the build system that makes it pretty difficult. Is core interested in upstreaming patches to upstream to aid the task?
21:41 <+Irvise_> Also, thank you for your work!
21:41 <+__martin> yes, definitively!
21:41 -!- Guest32 [~Guest32@204.13.168.3] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:41 <+Irvise_> For example, upstream coreutils does not have support for aarch64-netbsd, and it seems that the support in src is... less than ideal...
21:42 <+Irvise_> Okay, thank you!
21:42 <@spz> kre2 for releng
21:42 <+racoon> (it may be of interest for board to fund this project, providing we have willing victims^Wvolunteers)
21:42 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v Irvise_] by spz
21:43 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v kre2] by spz
21:43 <+kre2> what would it take to enable automatic point releases on stable branches periodically?
21:44 <+kre2> say every 5 or 6 months, simply release whatever is on the branch
21:44 <+__martin> depends on "automatic" - it mostly is, but needs someone to write the release notes and push security-office to do the signing
21:45 <+kre2> Could we generate release notes on the fly with pullups?
21:46 <+__martin> maybe, we could add some markers to the CHANGES* entries
21:46 <+kre2> Ask pullup requests to supply text to add/modify?
21:46 <+__martin> worth thinking about, but even w/o regular point releases are easy to do
21:46 <+__martin> (and probably a good idea)
21:47 <+kre2> woud be better than nothibng for a year...   Thanks.
21:47 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v tse_] by spz
21:47 <@spz> next is tse_, also for releng
21:47 <+tse_> releng: are there any plans to delay the 10.0 release in order to get the graphical stack (for lack of a better word) in a more stable state, as there are reports from multiple users about problems with nouveau, for example, or is this not a priority? Thank you, and thanks for all the hard work :)
21:47 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-v kre2] by spz
21:48 -!- hxd [~hxd@217.138.222.101] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:48 <+__martin> good question - we will not delay the branch, but the release will certainly not happen with major hardware giving black screens
21:48 <@Riastradh> It's hard...  Sorry, I wish I had a better answer!  Couple things I'd like to do before release (but after branch, probably):
21:49 <@Riastradh> - create a fallback to dumb vga when the drm/kms driver fails
21:49 <@Riastradh> - fix bugs arising from changes in the last update about when framebuffer devices attach if you don't have a display currently plugged in
21:50 <+tse_> thanks!
21:50 <@spz> ok, next we've got wiz asking about scm migration
21:50 <@Riastradh> Aside from that, well, need to sit down and do more diagnotics.  I kinda burned out a bit at the time the last update was merged, but I'm hoping to fix some more things.
21:50 <+_wiz_> what is the state of the scm migration away from CVS?
21:50 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [+v nbjoerg] by spz
21:51 <+nbjoerg> we had one big problem with people getting connection resets from anonhg without a clear cause
21:51 <+nbjoerg> that's supposedly fixed, but it is hard to get feedback :)
21:51 <@spz> short comment from me to that: the support from admins could be better, the pandemic blahs haven't helped
21:51 <+nbjoerg> the network speed of anonhg is a known issue, so don't be surprised if you get only 200KB/s on a bad day
21:52 <+nbjoerg> at this point, if I don't hear anything about sporadic errors soon, I call the technical side done
21:52 <+nbjoerg> there is still some documentation to be written and some of our automated tooling to be updated
21:53 <+nbjoerg> so summary: please tell me if you run into problems. docs are still in progress, but I don't have immediate show stoppers ATM
21:53 <+_wiz_> what can be done to speed it up? do you need help in particular areas?
21:53 -!- sborrill [~sborrill@82-71-24-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed]
21:53 <+nbjoerg> bandwidth is a result of the hosting location
21:54 <+nbjoerg> it's not too bad for initial clones as those go to fastly (and that finally works properly)
21:54 <+nbjoerg> and if you update regulary
21:54 <+_wiz_> and for the migration itself? :)
21:55 <+nbjoerg> we can set a date later this year and hope that I can actually take time off work :)
21:55 -!- sborrill [~sborrill@82-71-24-22.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #netbsd-agm
21:55 <+__martin> nbjoerg: can we do it before the wifi merge?
21:56 <+nbjoerg> I'm open for most dates after July or so
21:56 <+_wiz_> so july 15.
21:57 <+nbjoerg> let's take that to the lists, but I'm not opposed
21:57 <+_wiz_> thanks.
21:57 <@spz> ok, next a question by martin
21:58 <+__martin> with the -10 release cycle starting, we will have new binary pkg setups
21:58 <+__martin> I would really like us to ship signed binary pkgs for 10.0
21:58 <+__martin> there is a project on the wiki describing the issues we have with that
21:58 <+__martin> any volunteer to help is welcome!
21:59 <+__martin> current tests were either failing because I am too stupid or there are bugs in the pkg tools
21:59 <+__martin> (I'm assuming the latter)
22:00 <+__martin> if this needs more work, I'm pretty sure it would also make a good suggestion for a funded project
22:00 -!- jschauma [~jschauma@207.172.174.21] has joined #netbsd-agm
22:00 <+__martin> http://wiki.netbsd.org/projects/project/Make_signed_binary_pkgs_for_NetBSD_happen/
22:01 <+racoon> then, we need good documentation for all the builders (currently jklos@, he@, bouyer@, mlelstv@, myself) to follow for easy setup, and a whole lot of keys from those people in the base system :)
22:01 <@spz> and a master key in the base system
22:01 <@spz> anyway, more questions?
22:02 -!- dwmaxwell [~dwmaxwell@bras-base-toroon213qw-grc-15-184-146-76-184.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #netbsd-agm
22:02 <@spz> if not I'll hand over to leot for closing:
22:02 <@leot> Thank you spz!
22:02 <@leot>         -
22:03 <@leot> Before closing, The NetBSD Foundation, would like to thanks...
22:03 <@leot>         -
22:03 <@leot> Thanks to all the places that host our server machines and thanks to
22:03 <@leot> all kind heroes who do hands-on work too on them!
22:03 <@leot>         -
22:03 <@leot> Thanks to all the executive committees who do a lot of work behind the
22:03 <@leot> scenes to keep everything running smoothly!
22:03 <@leot>         -
22:03 <@leot> Thanks to everyone who is running our services, participating and
22:03 <@leot> helping in mailing lists, chat and other communities and filling PRs!
22:03 <@leot>         -
22:03 <@leot> Finally, thank you, for being part of this process today, fixing bugs,
22:03 <@leot> committing new features and making NetBSD and pkgsrc the best operating
22:03 <@leot> system and packaging system!
22:03 <@leot> We couldn't do it without you, keep up the excellent work!
22:03 <@leot>         -
22:03 <@leot> EOF
22:04 -!- mode/#netbsd-agm [-m] by spz
22:04 < Cryo> Thanks everyone!
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22:05 < pickles> thanks folks!
22:05 < wiedi> \o/
22:05 <+racoon> <3
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22:05 <+tse_> thank you for hosting this :)
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22:06 < khorben> thank you all!
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