The normalcy of genocide

vimcx
good evening.
|werejag|
you already lost
abum
We still use AD and BC
|werejag|
yeah
18:01 |werejag|
lol
abum
It's just a formality now
fierygt
if it was a christian nation, the FIRST amendment would read "The US is a christian nation...."
|werejag|
you cant change the facts
fierygt
but, it does not.
Monfd
The United States has always been a secular nation.
|werejag|
yep
|werejag|
and we will fight to remain so
|werejag|
"the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." founders aproved
|werejag|
and that ends it
fierygt
nowhere in the official constitution of the united states, that supercedes law for individual rights, does it once mention 'jesus' or 'christian' or even 'god'.
|werejag|
founders know what they created
Monfd
The core values of the United States are very much at odds with the core values of Christianity and Judaism.
|werejag|
founders 1 Easymoney 0
fierygt
besides, if we were an actual christian nation, donald trump would be nowhere NEAR the presidency.  so you already lose the argument there.
Monfd
I've been watching the Ken Burns Vietnam documentary.
|werejag|
ummm teh supreme court has never declared america is a christian nation
|werejag|
never
Monfd
It's very good.
Monfd
Easymoney is to be disregarded.
|werejag|
becuase orange man is bad
fierygt
nah, in this case, it's his fraudvangelical base, that are 'bad'.
Monfd
Low intelligence/low education people who are eager to learn are important and valued, deserving our time as teachers.
abum
"This is a quotation"
|werejag|
Easymoney you lose
Monfd
Low intelligence/low education people who hate learning, like Easymoney, are enemies of civilization.
Monfd
Please do not support the enemies of civilization.
|werejag| gets no suport to Easymoney
abum
Rachel Maddow is on
|werejag|
wacthing
|werejag|
lol
|werejag|
Easymoney sure
Monfd
Any Ken Burns fans?
Monfd
I just finished his Civil War documentary.
|werejag|
christians did it
Monfd
These documentaries convince me that many humans are very stupid and it's hard to make civilization work with our species as it's currently constituted.
|werejag|
i peaked ahead Monfd
Monfd
There doesn't seem to be any easy solution, except a lot of suffering.
|werejag|
lol
Monfd
Peaked?
|werejag|
nvm
|werejag|
lol
Monfd
At the end of the day, many, many governments ignore the core psychology of our species, creating a debt of suffering.
Monfd
Ho Chi Minh reached out to President Wilson to help ensure Vietnam could become free.
Monfd
Many people in Vietnam felt a natural affinity to the US because we also overthrew our colonial oppressors.
Monfd
But we chose the path of colonialism, profit, and power and then 58k poor/middle-class young men died to protect the wealth and power of elites.
Monfd
And the core ideology used by the elites 'running' our government are obviously vulnerable to core cognitive weaknesses.
Monfd
For example, the domino theory features one of the cognitive patterns our species employs to overcome empathy and reason.
Monfd
Namely, it's a catastrophizing an undesirable event -- the fall of Vietnam represents the inevitable fall of the entire world, literally -- that allowed us to convince ourselves to drop chemical weapons on non-combatants.
Monfd
You have to wonder if anybody at any point noted this vulnerability of the domino theory.
fierygt
speaking of vietnam, trump is supposed to show up there for the other summit with kim jong un.  which is weird, because the way his cult talks, i thought trump's great deal making skills made them abandon all nuclear ambitions, and give us any technology they may have invented themselves.  but aside from that...think trump will actually show up in vietnam this time, or will he suddenly have
fierygt
a 6th case of 'bone spurs'?
fierygt
for what?  for him to make his shit there, too, instead of america?
Monfd
You have the Secretary of War operating as a hype man for a state-corporation, the United States, as they sell a defective, fraudulent product -- success in Vietnam -- with the newest mathematical analyses exported from the business world.
Monfd
It's just enough to make you almost hate everything this species does.
Monfd
fierygt: I don't think you've yet truly accepted the nature of Trumpism or the Trump supporter.
Monfd
You remind me of myself a few years ago when I was realizing that they were literally contradicting themselves from sentence to sentence or even inside the same sentence.
fierygt
you don't think i know they do that?
Monfd
It made me very uncomfortable. I though, surely this is the end of Trumpism! Even they'll be able to see that their ideology has finally found itself in the cul-de-sac of contradictions.
Monfd
fierygt: I perceive you to still be dealing with the internal suffering of realizing 30% of your species doesn't exist in the same epistemic universe as you.
Monfd
Truth, as we understand it, is just one epistemic choice.
Monfd
They understand truth differently. Truth is what the hierarchy says it is.
Monfd
Trump is the top if their hierarchy, and so he emits truth. The idea of internal contradiction is one of our ideas, not theirs.
Monfd
Having unified hierarchies that determine the nature of reality is a very powerful evolutionary strategy.
Monfd
It allows for large groups of semi-aware apes to form foraging clans that can successfully genocide nearby rival clans.
Monfd
It's less stable than scientific groups, over longer periods of time, but that isn't perceivable to computational systems (human brains) with less resources.
zorg has left IRC (Quit: Leaving)
18:19 Monfd
Our specie is highly optimized for genocide -- it's one of our primary modalities.
Monfd
The discomfort in the modern West with the rise of apparently genocidal groups means we've not sufficiently taught our nature to our children.
Monfd
Yes, of course they're genocidal. It's not exotic to be genocidal.
Monfd
Secular republics are far more exotic.
Monfd
I remember when some members of our culture lamented what to tell their children after Trump won.
Monfd
It's not hard, we've just created a delusion for ourself.
Monfd
It's tricky because, in a sense, the point of civilization is to move us out of our earlier strategies and sufferings.
Monfd
The whole point is to *not* have to worry about them. Over time, we, apparently, forget we ever lived that way.