Eng Bob Lazar: Area 51 & Flying Saucers

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I often wonder
about the nature of reality,

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about our relationship
to the creative force

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that forged the particles of
our stars and intertwined them

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with the molecules
of our bodies.

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Who are we,

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and where are we actually sitting within
the architecture of our universe?

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Are we alone?

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Or is the answer simply
stranger than we can think?

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My name is Jeremy Corbell.

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I seek to weaponize
your curiosity.

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And if you're ready to
suspend your own prejudice,

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welcome to the world
ofExtraordinary Beliefs.

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This week, we've heard the
contention of UFO researchers

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that there's a secret government
within our government.

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Well,
there are several...

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Actually nine flying saucers,

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flying discs that are out there
of extraterrestrial origin.

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Not to burst your bubble, but the
Earth is not the center of the universe.

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At least not anymore.

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You are not the star
of your own movie.

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Humans are not
the top of the food chain.

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And fate is a fantasy.

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But I can't prove any of this,

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even if I wanted to.

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There is an indefinable
mysterious power that pervades everything.

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I feel it,
though I do not see it.

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It is this unseen power
which makes itself felt.

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There is an indefinable mysterious
power that pervades everything.

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I feel it,
though I do not see it.

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It is this unseen power
which makes itself felt.

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There is...

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Reality simply
isn't what it used to be.

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Things are not
what they seem.

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Everything around us
is a mental construct.

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We create
our own reality.

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Breaking that down
is hard to do.

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And once it's done,

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there ain't no coming back.

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What happens to people when
their fundamental beliefs,

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the bedrock of their
understanding,

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explodes into
a million fucking pieces.

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When something comes careening
from out of the blue

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and it messes with
everything we know.

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How do we react?

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There is an indefinable
mysterious power that pervades everything.

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Beliefs
are mercurial things.

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They direct our lives and
choices, moment by moment.

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This doorway is to
the imagination emporium.

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Harness the hunches
polished with proof.

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They're like clothing
you can't afford.

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They elevate us,
yet they're not ours to keep.

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We discard them when they no
longer serve our needs.

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Or we find out they
weren't real at all.

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This story is extraordinary.

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Especially if it's true.

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And it all started
in the desert,

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just north of Las Vegas.

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Area 51, the most
secretive spots on the planet

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is located on the north-east
edge of the Nevada test site

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and is said to be where numerous
top-secret weapon systems

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have been tested
over the years.

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According to some
UFO researchers,

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it's also where the government
is test-flying alien spacecraft.

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It sounds pretty far out,
but some Las Vegas residents

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report having seen
these flying saucers.

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A local scientist
who says he worked at Groom Lake

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and saw the saucers joins us
in tonight's interview.

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He has asked that
his identity be shielded.

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Sir, how do we know you are
who you say you are

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and that you actually have knowledge
about what's going on at Groom Lake?

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Well, I guess there's no
way you could really know. Uh...

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Uh, there's really no way I can prove
it without revealing my identity

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and getting myself into more
trouble than I have already.

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Exactly
what's going on up there?

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Well, there are
several, actually nine

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flying saucers, flying discs that are
out there of extraterrestrial origin,

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and they're being test-flown

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and basically just analyzed.

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You say there're nine
saucers. How are those tests going?

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As far as what?

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As far as whether they're
successful and that sort of thing.

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Oh, well, some of them are
100% intact and operate perfectly.

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The other ones
are being taken apart.

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I was involved mainly in
propulsion and the power source.

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Where did we
get these saucers,

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how did they come into
the hands of the government?

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I haven't the slightest idea

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and, you have to understand, the
information is very compartmentalized,

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and I was only
allowed information

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that pertained particularly
to what I was involved in.

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But, I mean, couldn't
our government have made them

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as opposed to getting them
from some alien beings?

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Totally impossible.
Uh...

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The propulsion system is
a gravity propulsion system,

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the power source is
an antimatter reactor.

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This technology
does not exist at all.

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In fact, one of the reasons that I'm
going forward with this information,

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it's not only a crime
against the American people,

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it's a crime against
the scientific community,

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which I've been
part of for some time,

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who are actively trying to
duplicate these systems,

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yet they are in existence now and
basically in the hands of the government.

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What would happen
to you if the government learned

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that you were giving us
this information?

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Anything could happen, I don't know,
it's... I haven't the slightest idea.

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You said... You
referred to getting into trouble,

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have you had some
repercussions already?

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Yeah, I've been threatened
with being charged with espionage,

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I've had my life threatened by them,
my wife's life threatened by them.

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And...

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I mean, I don't know where
else you can go from there.

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Well, I want
to thank you for joining us.

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Pretty interesting stuff
you've got to say.

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Thank you.
Thank you, sir.

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We'll have more news
in just a moment.

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Now, first we
go to Dan Rather in Beijing

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for a look ahead
at theCBS Evening News.

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CBS Evening News,
from China.

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We'll have
extensive coverage...

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The live interview with the
shadowy Dennis drew international attention.

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Portions were broadcast by radio
in six European countries

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and in a nationally televised
TV special in Japan.

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Despite numerous inquiries and feelers,
Dennis has remained anonymous until now.

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His real name is Robert Lazar.

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He says he was hired to work
at an area called S4,

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which is a few miles
south of Groom Lake.

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At S4, he says, are flying
saucers, antimatter reactors

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and other working
examples of technology

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that is seemingly beyond
human capabilities.

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George Knapp,
Eyewitness News 8.

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Good evening, everyone.

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You're in the right place
at the right time.

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Blasting out of the Mojave
Desert like a sirocco

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blazing across the land into
your town, into your home,

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slamming into your radio like
a super-charged nano particle

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of unobtanium.

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Greetings to all of you
from the boldest, bawdiest,

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most outrageous
city in the world,

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planetary capital of sun,
fun, sin, sex and secrets,

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my not-so-humble hometown,
Las Vegas, Nevada.

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You know, there are a lot of
people, myself included,

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who would like to focus
on big-picture stuff.

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Who are these visitors, why are they
here, what is the nature of reality,

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what is their interest in us,
where did they come from?

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Those are the questions
that people have been asking

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about the UFO mystery
since the beginning.

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We're no closer to answering any
of them, but Bob got pretty close.

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Bob got to read these briefing documents
that provided those kind of answers.

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The thing is, when we
were covering his story,

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so much of the effort
was in proving

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that he really was the
person that he said he was.

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Is it true, is it plausible

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that really,
that was the focus

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more than the really
important stuff.

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You have to cover
the story of Bob Lazar.

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And the only way to do
that is to talk to Bob.

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And I don't know if he'll talk to
you or not, but you need to try.

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It's all going to be
circumstance for you,

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is the moment that you approach
him, the mood that he's in,

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what else is going on
in his life at the time...

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You might hit the jackpot and get
him at exactly the right time

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and the universe is aligned and
he's willing to talk about it.

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But you'd have to
be awfully lucky.

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Because, in general, Bob
doesn't like to talk about it.

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I think he's
very happy in his life,

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he's happy to have left
the UFO stuff behind,

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he misses his friends,

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he misses John Lear, he misses Gene
Huff, maybe even me, to some extent.

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But he doesn't miss the UFO topic and
he doesn't miss talking about it.

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Because ultimately, it's disturbing.
These are disturbing issues.

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They go to the heart
of who we are as people,

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as human beings,
the nature of reality itself.

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Is this
a computer simulation?

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Are we all the product
of an alien video game?

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Or some
multidimensional movie,

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drive-in movie theater
production or something?

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Big questions.
Disturbing answers.

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And Bob has never been comfortable
in talking about it. Never.

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He reacted by going into a cocoon in
a lot of ways. He didn't like it.

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He doesn't like the attention, and
it totally screwed up his life.

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It's not surprising
that even years later,

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he's still is uncomfortable
in discussing these things.

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It's a very disturbing
view of reality.

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A young person's guide to UFOs.
This looks old, man.

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Hmm.

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Hey, what are we
talking about anyway?

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We'll go through...

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My name's Bob Lazar,

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I'm known for working
at a classified base

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known as S4, out in the Nevada
desert, near Area 51.

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And there, we reverse-engineered
alien spacecraft.

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And it's changed
my life a lot.

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You know, it's probably
changed every aspect of it.

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Positive or negative?

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Well, for the most part,
negative.

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I mean, it's really difficult to
find positive aspects of that.

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I mean, I'm sure there
are some here and there,

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but most of them
were negative.

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Would-- Would you--

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Would you take it all back and
just be Bob the jet-car guy

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and never have done this if you can, or
are you glad you had the experience?

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00:15:23,225 --> 00:15:24,916
Yeah, it's hard to say.

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I don't know. I think
I'd lean towards not...

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At this point in my life, I'd probably
lean towards not saying anything.

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You know, what would be
your message to a young person now

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about looking at your story
and thinking about the world,

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what would you say to them?

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Just pay attention.

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Just pay attention.
I can't really say much.

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The world's
a lot different now.

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The way information is disseminated
and the way things are passed around.

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It's distorted even faster and
more now than it used to be.

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00:15:56,327 --> 00:15:58,571
So, they've got
a rough road ahead

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if they're trying to cut
through the bullshit.

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00:16:01,712 --> 00:16:03,196
What do you want
them to know?

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That in the late 1980s, the
US government had recovered

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alien spacecraft, several
of them, and the technology

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in the Nevada desert that they
were keeping quiet and analyzing.

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That's a fact.

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They don't need my story, but, I
mean, that's all my story was.

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Is that I was just one of the
people working on this ground.

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Well, fine, I'll just say everything
instead of holding back on anything,

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and then you can
edit it later on. All right.

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00:16:49,829 --> 00:16:53,867
Well, we'll take it
from the top then.Okay. Well, go ahead.

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How you got involved
with this program?

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I had sent resumes
to several national labs,

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00:17:01,979 --> 00:17:04,326
I got a response
from a couple of them.

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00:17:04,361 --> 00:17:08,986
I went in for an interview,
they had a job in mind,

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00:17:09,918 --> 00:17:14,129
and then they continued
questioning me

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mainly on my interests
outside of work.

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They seemed to be
really concerned about that.

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00:17:19,376 --> 00:17:21,550
What, things like
jet cars and...

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00:17:21,585 --> 00:17:24,829
Right. "What do you do
in your spare time?"

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00:17:24,864 --> 00:17:26,900
You know, "You say you work
on little projects."

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I said, "Yeah, I have
a particle accelerator

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in my master bedroom,"
and things of that sort.

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00:17:32,354 --> 00:17:34,425
And some time went by
and they called me back in,

238
00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:38,671
they said there was a senior
staff physicist that was leaving

239
00:17:38,705 --> 00:17:43,020
this organization and they basically
interviewed me for that job.

240
00:17:44,815 --> 00:17:47,266
I was given a lot
of briefings to read on...

241
00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,751
I believe there are 121
different briefings,

242
00:17:49,785 --> 00:17:52,167
and they sat me in a room
and they had a...

243
00:17:52,201 --> 00:17:54,928
While they were going
and updating my clearance

244
00:17:54,963 --> 00:17:57,621
to a level that they call
"majestic..."

245
00:17:57,655 --> 00:17:59,347
You start
reading these reports,

246
00:17:59,381 --> 00:18:01,452
you see some of them deal
with flying saucers,

247
00:18:01,487 --> 00:18:02,902
what's your reaction?

248
00:18:02,936 --> 00:18:07,803
Well, I was completely shocked,
I couldn't believe it.

249
00:18:07,838 --> 00:18:10,254
But I was fascinated,
I was so excited, I...

250
00:18:11,911 --> 00:18:15,328
It's a science dream, really.

251
00:18:15,363 --> 00:18:16,950
Eventually,
I was shown them.

252
00:18:17,675 --> 00:18:20,057
One close-up, one operating.

253
00:18:20,091 --> 00:18:23,888
They had one of the reactors
out of the crafts,

254
00:18:23,923 --> 00:18:25,614
which was
an antimatter reactor.

255
00:18:25,649 --> 00:18:27,167
Uh...

256
00:18:27,202 --> 00:18:30,067
I was given a demonstration
on how it worked,

257
00:18:30,101 --> 00:18:33,657
things that it did
and the physics of it.

258
00:18:33,691 --> 00:18:37,454
The thing I was most interested
in is duplicating the reactors

259
00:18:37,488 --> 00:18:40,249
without using
this element 115.

260
00:18:41,975 --> 00:18:44,806
Which is, of course, impossible.
They were trying to...

261
00:18:45,738 --> 00:18:48,327
And there have been
projects before that

262
00:18:48,361 --> 00:18:53,539
just trying to use a normal nuclear
generator fueled with plutonium.

263
00:18:53,573 --> 00:18:56,162
And that was,
really, a futile attempt.

264
00:18:59,165 --> 00:19:01,823
Some people are
sources of gravity.

265
00:19:02,996 --> 00:19:05,965
Their certainty and wholeness
commands our attention.

266
00:19:05,999 --> 00:19:08,864
We are drawn to them
by a natural law

267
00:19:08,899 --> 00:19:12,730
that requires we don't quite
understand the mechanism.

268
00:19:14,525 --> 00:19:18,943
But the pull is like a tide,
a current you can't deny.

269
00:19:18,978 --> 00:19:21,739
And eventually,
it wears you down.

270
00:19:24,155 --> 00:19:25,398
Call George Knapp.

271
00:19:26,468 --> 00:19:29,022
Calling George Knapp mobile.

272
00:19:39,032 --> 00:19:40,586
Hey, George. Hey, man.

273
00:19:40,620 --> 00:19:43,554
What's up, man, how you doing?
All right. What's going on?

274
00:19:43,589 --> 00:19:48,628
This is now 30 years since you
initially broke the story about Lazar.

275
00:19:48,663 --> 00:19:51,459
So, I mean, the amount of the
information is overwhelming,

276
00:19:51,493 --> 00:19:54,565
and I just want to go over with you
some of the details of the case.

277
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:55,911
Sure.

278
00:19:55,946 --> 00:20:00,053
We're talking about UFOs,
alien craft, back engineering,

279
00:20:00,088 --> 00:20:02,090
and there's Lazar saying
he did all that.

280
00:20:02,124 --> 00:20:05,369
And from what I understand,
it spread everywhere.

281
00:20:05,404 --> 00:20:09,511
Yeah, you know, we had that
first interview in May of 1989,

282
00:20:09,546 --> 00:20:13,204
with him as Dennis, was...
not his real identity,

283
00:20:13,239 --> 00:20:16,449
not known, not revealed to the audience.

284
00:20:16,484 --> 00:20:19,348
And even then, before we
knew who Bob Lazar was,

285
00:20:19,383 --> 00:20:23,801
that sparked a big... A great deal
of interest among the public.

286
00:20:23,836 --> 00:20:27,011
I spent eight months
between May and November

287
00:20:27,046 --> 00:20:29,220
trying to verify Bob's
background,

288
00:20:29,255 --> 00:20:32,189
to see if we could
solidify the case,

289
00:20:32,223 --> 00:20:34,329
to see if we could find out
if he was telling the truth.

290
00:20:34,363 --> 00:20:37,608
And then to... The plan was
to unleash it in November,

291
00:20:37,643 --> 00:20:39,092
which is what we did...

292
00:20:39,127 --> 00:20:42,268
...it was the highest-rated
news series we've ever done.

293
00:20:42,302 --> 00:20:46,686
It was the highest-rated news special
that ever aired in Las Vegas.

294
00:20:46,721 --> 00:20:49,931
And then it really exploded,
it went all over the world.

295
00:20:49,965 --> 00:20:55,143
Bootleg copies of the tapes were being
sold and shown in movie theaters.

296
00:20:55,177 --> 00:20:58,215
You had media interests
from all over the world.

297
00:20:58,249 --> 00:21:00,700
And I think a lot of it was
skeptical at the beginning

298
00:21:00,735 --> 00:21:02,184
which, of course, it would be.

299
00:21:02,219 --> 00:21:06,050
But in the end, every major
news organization in the world

300
00:21:06,085 --> 00:21:08,639
beat a path to Area 51's door.

301
00:21:08,674 --> 00:21:12,401
And tens of thousands of people
started showing up out there,

302
00:21:12,436 --> 00:21:15,232
to see whatever it was that was
flying around in the desert.

303
00:21:15,266 --> 00:21:17,717
They're still coming,
all these years later.

304
00:21:17,752 --> 00:21:21,272
And I know a lot of my media colleagues
have had problems with that story,

305
00:21:21,307 --> 00:21:23,551
but they've all covered it,
all of them.

306
00:21:23,585 --> 00:21:27,624
It put Area 51 on the map. It's
now known all over the world.

307
00:21:27,658 --> 00:21:29,695
Even though Lazar
worked at S4,

308
00:21:29,729 --> 00:21:32,180
Area 51 is the term
that the public knows.

309
00:21:32,214 --> 00:21:35,079
So it was huge. It was
huge then, it's huge now.

310
00:21:38,566 --> 00:21:41,361
The mountains appear
to float on dry lake beds.

311
00:21:41,396 --> 00:21:43,985
Like spaceships
from another world.

312
00:21:44,019 --> 00:21:46,263
They seem to ride
on a viscous material,

313
00:21:46,297 --> 00:21:50,888
channeled through empty space by
heat that rises and separates.

314
00:21:50,923 --> 00:21:53,581
It petrifies
everything it contacts

315
00:21:53,615 --> 00:21:56,169
like a green glass honey.

316
00:21:56,894 --> 00:21:59,069
A goddamn psychedelic liquid

317
00:21:59,103 --> 00:22:02,866
drowning the emptiness
with imagination.

318
00:22:05,662 --> 00:22:09,735
This desert is pocked and punctuated
by a thousand gaping holes

319
00:22:09,769 --> 00:22:13,980
created in the thousand atomic
blasts that define an era.

320
00:22:16,086 --> 00:22:19,779
What are they building in the
desert, north of Las Vegas?

321
00:22:19,814 --> 00:22:22,299
What are they hiding?

322
00:22:26,752 --> 00:22:29,513
Yeah.

323
00:22:38,798 --> 00:22:42,319
What is your name and what
is your relationship to Bob Lazar?

324
00:22:42,353 --> 00:22:46,254
My name is Mario Santa Cruz, and I
met Bob actually in my neighborhood.

325
00:22:46,288 --> 00:22:48,877
He lived, like,
one block over.

326
00:22:48,912 --> 00:22:51,673
My attraction to Bob
was his jet dragster.

327
00:22:51,708 --> 00:22:56,954
I saw this jet dragster sitting
out in front of his house

328
00:22:56,989 --> 00:22:59,267
in our neighborhood
which was extremely...

329
00:22:59,301 --> 00:23:02,546
Just the jet dragster alone
was rare.

330
00:23:02,581 --> 00:23:06,343
But in my neighborhood, to see
something like that was unbelievable.

331
00:23:06,377 --> 00:23:09,795
People were harassing
Bob, threatening him,

332
00:23:09,829 --> 00:23:13,522
and you were with him in one of
those experiences, at least one.

333
00:23:13,557 --> 00:23:14,765
A couple of times, actually.

334
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,043
I actually had
a weapon with me,

335
00:23:17,078 --> 00:23:22,186
you know, when we rode together because
he had been shot at, you know?

336
00:23:22,221 --> 00:23:24,568
What was the weapon,
was it the Uzi?

337
00:23:24,603 --> 00:23:26,052
Yes.Yeah.

338
00:23:27,502 --> 00:23:29,297
I don't know why
I'm being so careful.

339
00:23:29,331 --> 00:23:31,851
I'm used to being that way when
it comes to talking about Bob.

340
00:23:31,886 --> 00:23:34,716
Being careful what I say,
you know what I mean?

341
00:23:34,751 --> 00:23:36,200
So it's kind of
a force of habit

342
00:23:36,235 --> 00:23:38,686
to kind of just walk on
eggshells a little bit.

343
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,171
He just wanted to stay alive.

344
00:23:41,205 --> 00:23:43,380
That's why he exposed himself.

345
00:23:43,414 --> 00:23:45,520
His life was...
It was in chaos.

346
00:23:45,554 --> 00:23:48,316
Hell, he pulled out of it
and he dug deep.

347
00:23:48,350 --> 00:23:51,215
It's a pretty
incredible story.

348
00:23:55,081 --> 00:23:58,671
They shot at you? Somebody
shot maybe as a warning perhaps.

349
00:23:58,706 --> 00:24:01,467
It was a good warning. I had my
back tire shot out on my car

350
00:24:01,501 --> 00:24:03,089
as I was getting
on the freeway.

351
00:24:04,953 --> 00:24:06,403
My--You saw the guy?

352
00:24:06,437 --> 00:24:07,335
Yeah.

353
00:24:07,369 --> 00:24:09,268
Is this a secret worth
killing to keep?

354
00:24:09,302 --> 00:24:11,235
I mean, the government,
would you say?

355
00:24:11,822 --> 00:24:13,237
Obviously.

356
00:24:15,136 --> 00:24:17,138
But in fact, the only reason

357
00:24:18,277 --> 00:24:21,867
that getting this
on tape is insurance.

358
00:24:21,901 --> 00:24:25,353
Well, that's one reason, but, I
mean, also as an American citizen,

359
00:24:25,387 --> 00:24:29,322
you're bothered by... That
this stuff is going on and--

360
00:24:29,357 --> 00:24:33,119
Yeah, I am, but not enough
to have, you know,

361
00:24:33,154 --> 00:24:36,329
stood here and
have it on the record.

362
00:24:36,364 --> 00:24:39,712
Insurance is the true
motivation behind this.

363
00:24:44,821 --> 00:24:49,446
At four months old, in our
little apartment in Florida,

364
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,277
that's me holding him,
very proud mom holding him.

365
00:24:53,312 --> 00:24:55,555
We had a beautiful
little place in Florida.

366
00:24:57,799 --> 00:24:59,214
Look at that.

367
00:24:59,249 --> 00:25:02,252
One Sunday morning, must have
been about 6:00 in the morning,

368
00:25:02,286 --> 00:25:05,358
everyone's asleep,
and there's this huge bang.

369
00:25:05,393 --> 00:25:08,568
Bob had put a jet engine
in the bike.

370
00:25:08,603 --> 00:25:12,503
At 6:00 in the morning, he decided
to take it out for a trip.

371
00:25:12,538 --> 00:25:15,127
What did you guys think when
he said, "Mom, Dad, I'm building--"

372
00:25:15,161 --> 00:25:16,369
Scared out of my mind.

373
00:25:16,404 --> 00:25:17,819
I didn't know what
he was going to do next.

374
00:25:17,854 --> 00:25:20,649
Was he going to blow up the
house, blow up the world?

375
00:25:20,684 --> 00:25:22,341
I don't know.

376
00:25:23,860 --> 00:25:26,483
It's out there, you know? He's out there.

377
00:25:31,143 --> 00:25:33,835
You know, if he proves
his story, let's say,

378
00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:38,460
maybe it would cause problems,
maybe it would blow shit up.

379
00:25:38,495 --> 00:25:40,635
It... More than
likely it would.

380
00:25:40,669 --> 00:25:45,260
But he's best off keeping
things down low, really.

381
00:25:45,295 --> 00:25:50,956
But at the same time, he has said there
is a way he could prove his story.

382
00:25:50,990 --> 00:25:52,371
I want him to be happy.

383
00:25:52,405 --> 00:25:55,823
If vindication is
what he wants, fine.

384
00:25:55,857 --> 00:25:57,307
But that's up to him.

385
00:25:57,963 --> 00:25:59,585
You believe him or not.

386
00:25:59,619 --> 00:26:03,244
It's a fearful thing to think
that there's something out there

387
00:26:03,278 --> 00:26:08,111
that we don't know anything about. Or
are they dangerous? Can they hurt us?

388
00:26:08,145 --> 00:26:10,803
Will they attack us?
You don't want to know,

389
00:26:11,355 --> 00:26:12,909
so you don't believe it.

390
00:26:12,943 --> 00:26:15,118
You'd rather not believe.

391
00:26:15,152 --> 00:26:18,673
There might be other things out
there, other things in the universe.

392
00:26:18,707 --> 00:26:21,572
There has to be. We can't
be all by ourselves.

393
00:26:21,987 --> 00:26:23,367
We can't be.

394
00:26:44,664 --> 00:26:47,564
My name is Joy
and I am Bob's wife.

395
00:26:47,598 --> 00:26:49,566
We've been together 17 years.

396
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,364
What is it that you
think is most misunderstood?

397
00:26:54,398 --> 00:26:57,367
That he really is an
honest guy, you know?

398
00:26:57,401 --> 00:26:59,265
He doesn't make stuff up.

399
00:27:03,028 --> 00:27:05,202
I guess it's just so big.

400
00:27:05,893 --> 00:27:08,067
So the easier thing to do

401
00:27:08,102 --> 00:27:10,967
is to point the finger
and say, "Liar."

402
00:27:11,001 --> 00:27:13,210
Yeah, that's so sad.

403
00:27:14,073 --> 00:27:15,454
That's really sad...

404
00:27:17,214 --> 00:27:20,252
That they don't know
real Bob.

405
00:27:26,948 --> 00:27:29,986
There's particular
moments that define each one of us.

406
00:27:30,020 --> 00:27:34,300
We may not know it at the
time, but we learn it later.

407
00:27:38,304 --> 00:27:41,238
Every action creates
a cascade of reactions.

408
00:27:42,205 --> 00:27:43,827
Life is a web of events.

409
00:27:46,726 --> 00:27:49,695
Actions overlaid
by consequence.

410
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,357
And woven across
the fabric of time.

411
00:27:57,876 --> 00:28:00,223
Future determined by past,

412
00:28:01,224 --> 00:28:03,709
past defined by present,

413
00:28:04,986 --> 00:28:09,370
present experienced throughout
the lens of personal history.

414
00:28:10,889 --> 00:28:12,994
But for some, it's obvious.

415
00:28:13,029 --> 00:28:15,134
You can put your finger on it.

416
00:28:15,169 --> 00:28:20,726
That definable, indelible
moment when everything changed.

417
00:28:23,971 --> 00:28:27,319
I love my job. There's a lot
of craftsmanship in the stuff I do.

418
00:28:27,353 --> 00:28:29,114
I really like working
with my hands.

419
00:28:29,148 --> 00:28:30,529
It's a really unique job.

420
00:28:30,563 --> 00:28:31,910
I don't think there's any
other job

421
00:28:31,944 --> 00:28:34,015
where you get to do this kind
of stuff every day.

422
00:28:35,983 --> 00:28:38,502
We'll either get a really
interesting order coming in,

423
00:28:38,537 --> 00:28:40,849
or Bob will get bored

424
00:28:40,884 --> 00:28:44,405
and try to come up with a new project,
and that's when it gets really fun.

425
00:28:44,439 --> 00:28:46,786
So, there's another one
that he wants to do...

426
00:28:46,821 --> 00:28:50,618
Like recreate a grand atomic
chemistry set,

427
00:28:50,652 --> 00:28:53,517
something of that sort, and I
think that will be really cool

428
00:28:53,552 --> 00:28:56,417
if he ever decides
to hone in on that.

429
00:28:56,451 --> 00:28:58,557
This is the
atomic energy lab kit.

430
00:28:58,591 --> 00:29:01,249
It's something from
the 1950s, a toy,

431
00:29:01,284 --> 00:29:04,149
like a chemistry set you'd get for
your kid. It was made by Gilbert.

432
00:29:04,183 --> 00:29:09,257
Chemistry is, today, a fascinating
adventure for youth of all ages.

433
00:29:09,292 --> 00:29:11,397
Gilbert has made this
exciting science

434
00:29:11,432 --> 00:29:14,538
available in safe
and easy-to-understand form.

435
00:29:14,573 --> 00:29:18,508
Made as completely safe as
human ingenuity can devise.

436
00:29:23,064 --> 00:29:25,998
This actually came
with radioactive material.

437
00:29:26,033 --> 00:29:29,968
You could really conduct atomic
energy experiments in it.

438
00:29:30,002 --> 00:29:31,866
It was fascinating.

439
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:35,559
And it was billed as the most
dangerous toy ever made,

440
00:29:35,594 --> 00:29:38,804
and still, in some respect, it's
still considered that way today.

441
00:29:38,838 --> 00:29:42,359
But the thing is it wasn't,
it was just people's fear.

442
00:30:11,871 --> 00:30:15,289
So, here I am and I'm
watching you do your work.

443
00:30:15,323 --> 00:30:18,809
If people don't know you,
it''s so easy for them

444
00:30:18,844 --> 00:30:22,503
to just make shit up about you
and to dehumanize you.

445
00:30:23,366 --> 00:30:25,092
How simple that is to do.

446
00:30:25,126 --> 00:30:27,991
The fact that somebody would
say you're not a scientist.

447
00:30:28,026 --> 00:30:29,958
I mean, all I've ever done,

448
00:30:29,993 --> 00:30:32,720
is science-related stuff
my entire life.

449
00:30:34,239 --> 00:30:39,554
So, I don't know. I guess the
point is, do I really care what

450
00:30:40,969 --> 00:30:42,764
people I don't know think?

451
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:45,077
And probably to some extent,
I do.

452
00:30:45,112 --> 00:30:48,425
But I don't dwell on it.

453
00:30:48,460 --> 00:30:52,671
I guess it is easier to discredit someone
that you have no information on,

454
00:30:52,705 --> 00:30:55,467
'cause you can just say
anything about them,

455
00:30:55,501 --> 00:30:57,124
then there's nothing
to refute it.

456
00:30:58,539 --> 00:31:01,887
I mean, I feel privileged
I got to work in it.

457
00:31:01,921 --> 00:31:05,546
So, in some respects, I shouldn't
be allowed to complain.

458
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:09,412
I've given the example of,
you know,

459
00:31:09,446 --> 00:31:12,794
transporting one of those small
modern-day portable nuclear reactor

460
00:31:12,829 --> 00:31:15,901
back into Victorian times, and
giving it to the scientists there.

461
00:31:15,935 --> 00:31:18,248
Back in that time, they didn't
even know about radiation.

462
00:31:18,283 --> 00:31:22,045
So they'd see a machine making power,
kind of like what we're doing,

463
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,737
and marvel at it, "Wow it's
producing a lot of power,

464
00:31:24,772 --> 00:31:27,499
there's no smokestack, there's
no coal, there's no fuel.

465
00:31:27,533 --> 00:31:29,052
How is this thing working?"

466
00:31:29,087 --> 00:31:31,019
They start taking it apart.

467
00:31:31,054 --> 00:31:34,713
Well, they'll all die, soon as
they get close to the core.

468
00:31:34,747 --> 00:31:37,716
If people would come in to
check on them, we'll all die,

469
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:39,614
and no one knows,
nothing touched them.

470
00:31:39,649 --> 00:31:41,547
So they're going to think
it's haunted or something,

471
00:31:41,582 --> 00:31:43,618
there's some evil forces
or something in there.

472
00:31:43,653 --> 00:31:47,105
But, I mean, who says
that can't happen to us?

473
00:31:47,139 --> 00:31:50,798
The first time Barry showed me
the reactor in operation,

474
00:31:50,832 --> 00:31:52,282
you know, here it is
on the bench,

475
00:31:52,317 --> 00:31:54,974
and he said, you know, "Try
and touch the sphere on top."

476
00:31:55,009 --> 00:31:57,943
And you couldn't,
your hand was pushed away.

477
00:31:57,977 --> 00:32:01,153
Just like in two
light poles of a magnet.

478
00:32:01,188 --> 00:32:05,088
It's the exact same feeling. But
there was no metal involved.

479
00:32:05,123 --> 00:32:06,952
And that's shocking.

480
00:32:06,986 --> 00:32:09,610
That's really shocking because
nothing does that.

481
00:32:09,644 --> 00:32:12,682
That's an operating
powerful force field.

482
00:32:12,716 --> 00:32:14,684
So just seeing
something like that

483
00:32:14,718 --> 00:32:17,514
immediately starts that whole
chain reaction in your mind

484
00:32:17,549 --> 00:32:21,622
going, "Wow, wait, if you could do this,
there could be force fields on tanks.

485
00:32:21,656 --> 00:32:23,175
There can be things
that lift off the ground.

486
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:24,970
We don't need jet
and rocket engines anymore.

487
00:32:25,004 --> 00:32:26,592
That means, wait, there's no
use for cars." I mean, boom!

488
00:32:26,627 --> 00:32:31,183
The whole thing changes the entire
world, the economy, everything.

489
00:32:31,218 --> 00:32:36,878
We'd go end-on-end just if we had an
answer to how that machine worked

490
00:32:36,913 --> 00:32:38,777
that I was sitting there,
touching.

491
00:32:38,811 --> 00:32:42,574
The potential for us
to re-understand

492
00:32:42,608 --> 00:32:45,818
human experience is--Right.

493
00:32:45,853 --> 00:32:49,201
Right. I mean,
there's life somewhere else.

494
00:32:49,236 --> 00:32:50,685
It's a big deal.

495
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,275
It's an important part of human
history that we've found that out.

496
00:32:55,518 --> 00:32:56,795
It was...

497
00:32:57,865 --> 00:33:01,075
Awesome but fearsome
at the same time.

498
00:33:03,008 --> 00:33:07,564
It was being completely
fucking scared all day long.

499
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:11,050
It's not exactly the most
fun job when you're there.

500
00:33:11,085 --> 00:33:14,295
You know, almost three decades
later, the fear drops off

501
00:33:14,330 --> 00:33:18,851
and you're just left with the amazement
and technology that you were exposed to.

502
00:33:18,886 --> 00:33:22,924
Here we have an artifact here
from another civilization.

503
00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:25,824
It really changes the way
a lot of people think.

504
00:33:25,858 --> 00:33:27,757
We're all looking
for an answer.

505
00:33:27,791 --> 00:33:32,002
Having physical proof
is an awful big deal.

506
00:33:32,037 --> 00:33:34,729
I think what a lot of people
find really compelling about Bob,

507
00:33:34,764 --> 00:33:38,077
he legitimately appeared...

508
00:33:38,112 --> 00:33:41,460
And appears sometimes
just perplexed by what he saw.

509
00:33:41,495 --> 00:33:43,704
Have you noticed
that about him?

510
00:33:43,738 --> 00:33:45,982
Yeah, he was aware
that this was weird.

511
00:33:46,016 --> 00:33:48,640
He was aware it was weird
that they hired him.

512
00:33:48,674 --> 00:33:50,262
I mean, you know,
he's a smart guy,

513
00:33:50,297 --> 00:33:53,369
and he thinks outside the box.
So in a lot of ways,

514
00:33:53,403 --> 00:33:56,613
he might have been just
exactly what they needed

515
00:33:56,648 --> 00:33:59,306
for a program that
seemed to be stalled.

516
00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:03,068
But he knew that he wasn't
their kind of a guy,

517
00:34:03,102 --> 00:34:06,313
that they could have had their pick
of any scientist in the world,

518
00:34:06,347 --> 00:34:08,142
presumably, to work on this.

519
00:34:08,176 --> 00:34:11,041
So it was strange, and it was strange
that they started showing him

520
00:34:11,076 --> 00:34:15,045
these briefing books with this
incredibly sensitive information.

521
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,702
Right off the bat.

522
00:34:16,737 --> 00:34:18,808
As soon as he gets there, they
start showing him this stuff

523
00:34:18,842 --> 00:34:22,052
with alien bodies broken down

524
00:34:22,087 --> 00:34:24,745
so he could see their organs
and the history

525
00:34:24,779 --> 00:34:28,369
of human-alien interaction
and all kinds of things

526
00:34:28,404 --> 00:34:30,578
that the UFO community
had suspected

527
00:34:30,613 --> 00:34:33,581
but no one could prove, and
he just thought it was weird

528
00:34:33,616 --> 00:34:35,963
that anyone would
show him this stuff.

529
00:34:35,997 --> 00:34:37,758
He wondered what the heck
was going on.

530
00:34:37,792 --> 00:34:40,139
I think he was thrilled, you know,
part of him was really thrilled

531
00:34:40,174 --> 00:34:42,038
to be there and thrilled
to see it,

532
00:34:42,072 --> 00:34:45,179
even if it turned out to be
some kind of a ruse.

533
00:34:45,213 --> 00:34:48,976
But, you know, he knew that
something was not quite right

534
00:34:49,010 --> 00:34:52,531
about the whole thing,
or suspected that anyway.

535
00:34:52,566 --> 00:34:57,087
You were telling people since 1989
that there was some sort of hand scanner,

536
00:34:57,122 --> 00:35:00,781
there was like a bone scanner. and
you tried to describe it. You said

537
00:35:00,815 --> 00:35:02,852
you think it took measurements
of the bone,

538
00:35:02,886 --> 00:35:04,785
there were these pegs,
you put your hand on it.

539
00:35:04,819 --> 00:35:08,996
It's a small plate with some pins on
it that you could put between your fingers.

540
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:10,411
There's a bright
light above it...

541
00:35:10,446 --> 00:35:13,794
The interesting thing is when
you walk into the facility,

542
00:35:13,828 --> 00:35:17,625
or even to leave,
they have a hand reader.

543
00:35:17,660 --> 00:35:20,663
I was told that it has to do
something where it measures the...

544
00:35:20,697 --> 00:35:24,529
A bright light measures the bones in your
finger, they're unique to each person.

545
00:35:24,563 --> 00:35:29,292
It sounds like something out of a TV
show, but it's exactly the way it is.

546
00:35:29,327 --> 00:35:32,709
I looked for that kind
of thing all over the Internet,

547
00:35:32,744 --> 00:35:36,161
I never found anything,
and then all of a sudden,

548
00:35:36,195 --> 00:35:40,717
this article comes out and it
says that at the Nellis Range,

549
00:35:40,752 --> 00:35:43,375
they were talking about
the stealth program,

550
00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:47,275
there was indeed this hand scanner
that was used in the secret programs,

551
00:35:47,310 --> 00:35:50,382
and they just admitted
or announced it publicly,

552
00:35:50,417 --> 00:35:54,455
and there were some photos, and
I just was interested and so...

553
00:35:56,354 --> 00:35:58,666
I never thought I'd see
one of these again.

554
00:36:00,047 --> 00:36:01,807
But I tried to explain this
to people so many times,

555
00:36:01,842 --> 00:36:05,328
and they either didn't believe me or
say, "Yeah, yeah, I'm sure there is."

556
00:36:06,847 --> 00:36:08,918
And there is it.
There it is.

557
00:36:08,952 --> 00:36:10,920
It's like a biometric
thing for the hands, yeah?

558
00:36:10,954 --> 00:36:14,302
The beginnings of, yeah, I mean, it
wasn't all that advanced back then

559
00:36:14,337 --> 00:36:16,063
but, yeah, that's it.

560
00:36:17,616 --> 00:36:21,655
I can't believe you found a
picture of this. I really can't.

561
00:36:21,689 --> 00:36:24,934
This was the scanner
used to get in to S4.

562
00:36:24,968 --> 00:36:28,247
And I tried to explain this
to people so many times

563
00:36:28,282 --> 00:36:31,319
that there were pins in you
stuck your hand, a light above,

564
00:36:31,354 --> 00:36:34,909
and it supposedly measured the
length of the bones in your hand

565
00:36:34,944 --> 00:36:37,843
that, you know, is unique
in each individual.

566
00:36:39,638 --> 00:36:42,469
It's exactly how it was.

567
00:36:44,609 --> 00:36:48,613
Yeah, that's amazing. It's
amazing you came up with these.

568
00:36:48,647 --> 00:36:50,787
It's amazing
to see this again.

569
00:36:52,271 --> 00:36:55,378
Back then,
this was the hot thing.

570
00:36:55,413 --> 00:36:58,346
What does it feel like when
these little things that you said

571
00:36:58,381 --> 00:37:01,108
become public, and there's
this tiny bit of vindication--

572
00:37:01,142 --> 00:37:03,110
It is, there's little moments
of vindication,

573
00:37:03,144 --> 00:37:04,939
you know, little pieces
here and there,

574
00:37:04,974 --> 00:37:07,873
little I-told-you-so's,
you know,

575
00:37:09,219 --> 00:37:12,499
pop up every couple of years
or so, but this is a big one.

576
00:37:13,983 --> 00:37:16,399
'Cause a lot of people
said these didn't exist,

577
00:37:17,952 --> 00:37:21,093
and, yeah, it was some just...

578
00:37:21,128 --> 00:37:24,994
fanciful thing I came up with.
But, yeah, this is exactly it.

579
00:37:27,514 --> 00:37:31,449
Ideas are the most
dangerous weapons on the planet.

580
00:37:31,483 --> 00:37:32,933
They creep under your skin.

581
00:37:32,967 --> 00:37:37,524
Dormant, volatile, explosive.

582
00:37:39,318 --> 00:37:41,873
They attach to our
collective consciousness.

583
00:37:41,907 --> 00:37:46,567
And then one day, they bubble to the
surface to assert their power...

584
00:37:54,333 --> 00:37:56,059
And when detonated,

585
00:37:57,060 --> 00:38:00,478
life is never the same again.

586
00:38:00,512 --> 00:38:03,998
And we immediately know
we're always wrong.

587
00:38:04,033 --> 00:38:05,828
We're always fucking wrong.

588
00:38:14,043 --> 00:38:16,942
I did not believe that this
should be a security matter.

589
00:38:16,977 --> 00:38:18,841
Some of it, sure.

590
00:38:18,875 --> 00:38:22,500
But just the concept
that there's definite proof...

591
00:38:22,534 --> 00:38:27,263
We even have articles from
another world, another system,

592
00:38:27,297 --> 00:38:29,161
you just can't
not tell everyone.

593
00:38:29,196 --> 00:38:32,268
Checking out Lazar's
credentials prove to be a difficult task.

594
00:38:32,302 --> 00:38:34,788
He says he earned degrees
in physics and electronics,

595
00:38:34,822 --> 00:38:37,860
but the schools we contacted say
they've never heard of him.

596
00:38:37,894 --> 00:38:41,519
He also said he worked as a physicist
at Los Alamos National Lab,

597
00:38:41,553 --> 00:38:44,073
where he experimented with
one of the world's largest

598
00:38:44,107 --> 00:38:47,352
particle beam accelerators,
a half-mile long behemoth

599
00:38:47,386 --> 00:38:50,182
capable of generating
700 million volts.

600
00:38:50,217 --> 00:38:51,805
Los Alamos officials told us

601
00:38:51,839 --> 00:38:55,049
they had no records of a Robert
Lazar ever working there.

602
00:38:55,084 --> 00:38:57,224
They were either
mistaken or were lying.

603
00:38:57,258 --> 00:39:00,538
A 1982 phone book
from the lab lists Lazar

604
00:39:00,572 --> 00:39:03,471
right there among the other
scientists and technicians.

605
00:39:03,506 --> 00:39:06,923
A 1982 clipping from
the Los Alamos newspaper

606
00:39:06,958 --> 00:39:09,374
profiled Lazar and his
interest in jet cars.

607
00:39:09,408 --> 00:39:12,550
It, too, mentioned his employment
at the lab as a physicist.

608
00:39:12,584 --> 00:39:16,105
We called Los Alamos again, and
an exasperated official told us

609
00:39:16,139 --> 00:39:18,210
he still had
no records on Lazar.

610
00:39:18,245 --> 00:39:21,524
EG&G, which is where Lazar
says he was interviewed

611
00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:24,769
for the job at S4,
also has no records.

612
00:39:24,803 --> 00:39:26,736
It's as if someone has
made him disappear.

613
00:39:26,771 --> 00:39:29,497
One thing that people say
about your story and your experience

614
00:39:29,532 --> 00:39:32,086
is that you were a puppet,
a marionette,

615
00:39:32,121 --> 00:39:35,952
that you had no control over
what was going on at that time,

616
00:39:35,987 --> 00:39:38,334
that you were taken advantage of
or compromised,

617
00:39:38,368 --> 00:39:40,681
and you were being used
as a source of disinformation.

618
00:39:40,716 --> 00:39:42,510
And what evidence
to support that?

619
00:39:44,133 --> 00:39:45,306
Right--Yeah.

620
00:39:45,341 --> 00:39:47,481
And what's the evidence
to support those claims?

621
00:39:47,515 --> 00:39:50,380
Is that just something to say? No,
I'm just saying, that's the kind--

622
00:39:50,415 --> 00:39:53,867
If you make a statement,
you have to have some evidence

623
00:39:53,901 --> 00:39:55,731
to say where the
statement came from.

624
00:39:55,765 --> 00:39:58,906
You're basing it on
emotion and fear.

625
00:39:58,941 --> 00:40:00,390
And you're afraid
that I'm right.

626
00:40:00,425 --> 00:40:03,946
Tell me what you've heard
that makes this impossible.

627
00:40:03,980 --> 00:40:06,880
I'm trying to tell you
exactly the way things were.

628
00:40:06,914 --> 00:40:13,127
Where is it? Show me the alternate
reality that you believe

629
00:40:14,197 --> 00:40:19,375
that doesn't lock up
with my actual reality.

630
00:40:19,409 --> 00:40:22,689
I mean, where are those other
facts? Show me what they are,

631
00:40:22,723 --> 00:40:24,449
these facts you
grabbed together

632
00:40:24,483 --> 00:40:28,142
and painted a different story
of my life than I did.

633
00:40:31,767 --> 00:40:35,978
I mean, I thought I set the
record straight 30 years ago.

634
00:40:36,012 --> 00:40:39,188
Can we ever be made
whole if we're not believed?

635
00:40:39,222 --> 00:40:43,192
If our life story
is challenged by consensus?

636
00:40:43,226 --> 00:40:46,229
Most of us are not forced to
answer for our past.

637
00:40:46,264 --> 00:40:51,234
We couldn't really navigate this moment
with an irreverence of what came before.

638
00:40:51,269 --> 00:40:54,582
But some people are placed
under a microscope.

639
00:40:54,617 --> 00:40:58,690
Their words, their actions
scrutinized and challenged.

640
00:40:58,725 --> 00:41:02,660
And then they're told to
quiet the lies.

641
00:41:02,694 --> 00:41:08,217
How much can a man take before he submits
to the weight and consequence of distrust?

642
00:41:08,251 --> 00:41:11,323
Does he fade back into the
shadows that formed him?

643
00:41:12,255 --> 00:41:14,257
Or does he lash out?

644
00:41:14,292 --> 00:41:18,952
To carve his words
into your flesh.

645
00:41:24,854 --> 00:41:26,718
I don't know
what else can I say.

646
00:41:28,133 --> 00:41:30,964
What else can I say?
How can I prove anything else?

647
00:41:30,998 --> 00:41:32,586
At the
worst-case scenario,

648
00:41:32,620 --> 00:41:35,554
you lied for a girl
or you lied to get a job.

649
00:41:35,589 --> 00:41:37,625
What does that mean
about your story?

650
00:41:39,317 --> 00:41:43,045
Do you think Los Alamos just
hired me out of high school?

651
00:41:47,981 --> 00:41:51,053
If you don't think
that's possible,

652
00:41:51,087 --> 00:41:54,815
then something had to
happen in between.

653
00:41:54,850 --> 00:42:00,648
I don't understand how everybody
gets so caught up in the minutiae.

654
00:42:02,236 --> 00:42:05,792
Because you can debate
that stuff forever.

655
00:42:05,826 --> 00:42:08,415
We can go back before MIT.

656
00:42:08,449 --> 00:42:11,556
And you can start fighting
whether or not,

657
00:42:11,590 --> 00:42:14,317
and where I lived
in high school.

658
00:42:14,352 --> 00:42:18,632
That is not going to translate
into answering the questions

659
00:42:20,807 --> 00:42:24,086
and the things that I have
brought into the public eye.

660
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,777
That's the important stuff.

661
00:42:25,812 --> 00:42:29,125
It almost seems like this is
an intentional distraction.

662
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:30,851
You need to pay attention
to the bigger picture.

663
00:42:30,886 --> 00:42:33,958
If you really want to
research all the other stuff,

664
00:42:33,992 --> 00:42:35,683
fine, go ahead and do it.

665
00:42:35,718 --> 00:42:39,342
But you really need to pay
attention to what I'm saying.

666
00:42:39,377 --> 00:42:42,069
'Cause I have better things
to do than come up with this.

667
00:42:42,104 --> 00:42:44,347
I'm not interested
in doing this.

668
00:42:44,382 --> 00:42:47,523
I'm not... I don't like being
in the public eye.

669
00:42:47,557 --> 00:42:49,767
I don't have money
for doing this.

670
00:42:49,801 --> 00:42:52,390
And quite frankly,
I could make up a better lie.

671
00:42:52,424 --> 00:42:55,255
But I have
no motivation to lie.

672
00:42:56,843 --> 00:42:59,811
This hasn't helped me out.

673
00:42:59,846 --> 00:43:05,748
What does that mean for Lazar's story that
we can't prove his schooling in fact?

674
00:43:05,783 --> 00:43:09,027
It was a problem,
I mean, I wondered,

675
00:43:09,062 --> 00:43:12,168
can we go forward
if we can't verify

676
00:43:12,203 --> 00:43:13,998
what was going on
in his background?

677
00:43:14,032 --> 00:43:17,898
The central point for me was,
if he worked at Los Alamos,

678
00:43:17,933 --> 00:43:20,452
that suggests he had to
have an education somewhere.

679
00:43:20,487 --> 00:43:22,144
I think he said it to me
a couple of times, you know.

680
00:43:22,178 --> 00:43:25,216
"What do you think, they hired
me right out of high school?"

681
00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:28,426
I looked at people
who knew him back then,

682
00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:30,393
Jim Taliani for one,
who said,

683
00:43:30,428 --> 00:43:33,224
"Yeah, Bob went to Caltech back then.
I dropped him off."

684
00:43:33,258 --> 00:43:36,883
I interviewed another person
who also knew Bob then

685
00:43:36,917 --> 00:43:39,506
and said that he would
drop him off at Caltech,

686
00:43:39,540 --> 00:43:41,404
or pick him up
from the library.

687
00:43:41,439 --> 00:43:43,855
That, if he wasn't
going to school there,

688
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:47,031
he sure was making
a good show of it back then.

689
00:43:47,065 --> 00:43:51,276
Would it prove his story about
working on flying saucers

690
00:43:51,311 --> 00:43:55,108
if he could show he had
degrees from Caltech and MIT?

691
00:43:55,142 --> 00:43:56,868
No, of course not.

692
00:43:56,903 --> 00:43:59,664
It would not prove that he
worked on flying saucers,

693
00:43:59,698 --> 00:44:02,356
it would just prove
that he went to school.

694
00:44:02,391 --> 00:44:04,565
The people who despise him

695
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,775
and who doubt the story the
most, the debunkers,

696
00:44:07,810 --> 00:44:09,777
would find something else
to bitch about.

697
00:44:09,812 --> 00:44:14,437
Bob got into some trouble after he
became a worldwide UFO celebrity,

698
00:44:14,472 --> 00:44:16,543
he did a typical
Bob-sort-of-a-thing

699
00:44:16,577 --> 00:44:19,615
and got mixed up with some
hookers, he was helping them

700
00:44:19,649 --> 00:44:22,756
set up a mini brothel
in a neighborhood.

701
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:24,931
And when he told me about it,
I thought, "Oh, my gosh!"

702
00:44:24,965 --> 00:44:27,657
My professional life
is flashing before my eyes.

703
00:44:27,692 --> 00:44:32,559
The most high-profile witness in
the biggest story I've ever done

704
00:44:32,593 --> 00:44:36,011
is now telling me he's involved
in this criminal enterprise,

705
00:44:36,045 --> 00:44:37,805
and he kind of thought
it was funny.

706
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,498
But it wasn't funny to me, so I
said, "You got to stop this stuff,

707
00:44:40,532 --> 00:44:43,052
you got to shut this down."
I called the cops.

708
00:44:43,087 --> 00:44:45,434
I let some people know,
"Look, he made a mistake,

709
00:44:45,468 --> 00:44:46,918
it's being shut down."

710
00:44:46,953 --> 00:44:50,335
They raided the place, arrested Bob.
And in those days,

711
00:44:50,370 --> 00:44:52,786
they weren't many people
who were ever prosecuted

712
00:44:52,820 --> 00:44:55,823
and arrested for pandering.
Lazar was.

713
00:44:55,858 --> 00:44:58,171
So, Parole and Probation,

714
00:44:58,205 --> 00:45:00,000
they're doing
a background investigation,

715
00:45:00,035 --> 00:45:02,347
and they're going to make
a recommendation to the court

716
00:45:02,382 --> 00:45:05,385
what the sentence
should be for his crimes.

717
00:45:05,419 --> 00:45:08,181
He tells them the same story.
Where he went to school,

718
00:45:08,215 --> 00:45:09,768
where he worked, S4,

719
00:45:09,803 --> 00:45:13,048
MIT, Caltech, all that.
And they investigated.

720
00:45:13,082 --> 00:45:15,498
They were having the same
problems that I was having.

721
00:45:15,533 --> 00:45:17,535
They couldn't verify
a lot of this stuff.

722
00:45:17,569 --> 00:45:22,471
If Bob truly was
a UFO con man,

723
00:45:22,505 --> 00:45:24,680
that was the time
to come clean.

724
00:45:24,714 --> 00:45:27,510
Because Parole and Probation
was ticked off.

725
00:45:27,545 --> 00:45:29,719
They thought he was
misleading them.

726
00:45:29,754 --> 00:45:32,584
And as a result of that,
they were going to recommend,

727
00:45:32,619 --> 00:45:36,554
they did recommend, that he
do hard time, go to prison.

728
00:45:36,588 --> 00:45:39,384
He knew it. That was the time
for him to come clean.

729
00:45:39,419 --> 00:45:43,561
Because it was a much better chance
that he would not be sent to prison.

730
00:45:43,595 --> 00:45:45,252
He didn't.
He stuck to his story.

731
00:45:45,287 --> 00:45:48,186
He told them the same story
that he told me.

732
00:45:48,221 --> 00:45:49,843
That went a long way for me

733
00:45:49,877 --> 00:45:52,639
in showing that he had
been telling the truth.

734
00:45:52,673 --> 00:45:57,161
Because it was definitely in his
own self-interest to fess up

735
00:45:57,195 --> 00:46:01,406
at that point, and that's not what he did.
He stuck to his guns.

736
00:46:01,441 --> 00:46:03,891
And here's the thing,
I could see Bob Lazar

737
00:46:03,926 --> 00:46:06,894
pranks the UFO world
and the UFO community,

738
00:46:06,929 --> 00:46:09,311
I could see him doing
something like that.

739
00:46:09,345 --> 00:46:11,589
But does he lie
to his mom and dad?

740
00:46:11,623 --> 00:46:13,418
Does he lie to his wife?

741
00:46:13,453 --> 00:46:17,077
Does he lie to all of his close
friends and tell them the same story

742
00:46:17,112 --> 00:46:18,906
and try to get away with it?

743
00:46:18,941 --> 00:46:21,806
If you look back on the people who
knew him while this was going on,

744
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,947
who knew him before he was
hired to work out at S4,

745
00:46:24,982 --> 00:46:28,847
who knew him during the time he was
going back and forth out there,

746
00:46:28,882 --> 00:46:30,711
and who stuck by him

747
00:46:30,746 --> 00:46:34,336
after this whirlwind
of international publicity

748
00:46:34,370 --> 00:46:36,096
kind of rained down
on his head.

749
00:46:36,131 --> 00:46:39,168
Everyone who knew him,
everyone who was close to him

750
00:46:39,203 --> 00:46:41,929
supports his story and says
he's telling the truth.

751
00:46:41,964 --> 00:46:44,346
You saw something up
there that you think might have been--

752
00:46:44,380 --> 00:46:48,212
I hate... I really hate to say
stuff that I can't put my hands on

753
00:46:48,246 --> 00:46:51,077
and say this is
absolutely for sure. What did you see?

754
00:46:51,111 --> 00:46:55,702
I walked down the hallway and, one
time, I was working out there

755
00:46:55,736 --> 00:46:58,532
and there were doors, the
doors that go to the hangars,

756
00:46:58,567 --> 00:47:01,846
the smaller doors from the
corridors that have a 9-inch,

757
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,607
or 12-inch square window with a
little wires running through it

758
00:47:04,642 --> 00:47:08,266
just about head level,
and as I was walking by,

759
00:47:08,301 --> 00:47:09,992
I just glanced in
and I noticed...

760
00:47:11,338 --> 00:47:13,754
At a quick glance, there was...

761
00:47:13,789 --> 00:47:16,481
There were two guys
in white lab coats

762
00:47:17,931 --> 00:47:21,245
facing me towards the door and
they were looking down and talking

763
00:47:21,279 --> 00:47:24,800
to something small
with long arms.

764
00:47:24,834 --> 00:47:29,218
Now, I was just surprised as I walked
by and I only caught a glimpse.

765
00:47:29,253 --> 00:47:32,739
But I don't know
what on earth that was.

766
00:47:32,773 --> 00:47:37,640
People say you saw an alien.
Did you see an alien at S4, Bob?

767
00:47:37,675 --> 00:47:39,953
I don't think
I saw an alien at S4.

768
00:47:39,987 --> 00:47:42,404
You know, we're
splitting hairs here.

769
00:47:42,438 --> 00:47:45,407
This had to do with a
glance through a window

770
00:47:45,441 --> 00:47:48,203
that I wasn't supposed
to be looking at anyway.

771
00:47:48,237 --> 00:47:50,101
And I'm still convinced.

772
00:47:50,136 --> 00:47:55,175
I looked in the window and I
think these guys had a doll

773
00:47:55,210 --> 00:47:59,662
in a small chair which was, you know,
similar to what was in the craft.

774
00:48:00,905 --> 00:48:03,425
And I think they were
just looking at dimensions

775
00:48:03,459 --> 00:48:04,874
and they put
something in there.

776
00:48:04,909 --> 00:48:07,808
And I had just taken a glance
and it was just, you know,

777
00:48:07,843 --> 00:48:10,087
something tiny
sitting in the chair.

778
00:48:10,121 --> 00:48:12,986
I don't think there was an alien
in there posing for them.

779
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:16,990
You know, I think they just had
a small character or something.

780
00:48:17,024 --> 00:48:21,063
You know, doing measurements or something.
Again, we're talking about, you know,

781
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,067
like a 400 millisecond
glance, so...

782
00:48:26,310 --> 00:48:27,932
Now, how much
can you see out of that?

783
00:48:27,966 --> 00:48:30,486
I never saw any aliens
walking around there.

784
00:48:30,521 --> 00:48:34,041
I never heard anybody saying
anything about living aliens, so...

785
00:48:34,076 --> 00:48:35,905
I don't think that was it.

786
00:48:35,940 --> 00:48:40,151
But they did have a nickname
for the aliens--

787
00:48:40,186 --> 00:48:41,497
"The kids."

788
00:48:42,222 --> 00:48:43,741
The kids.

789
00:48:49,954 --> 00:48:52,025
Is someone else here?

790
00:48:52,059 --> 00:48:54,131
Maybe visitors
interested in us?

791
00:48:54,855 --> 00:48:57,893
In our genes, in our souls?

792
00:48:59,619 --> 00:49:03,726
Maybe we're property,
just a goddamn commodity.

793
00:49:04,244 --> 00:49:06,729
Or like livestock.

794
00:49:06,764 --> 00:49:09,905
Maybe they'd like
our condors and cupcakes.

795
00:49:09,939 --> 00:49:12,770
A kimono or a top hat,
who the fuck knows?

796
00:49:13,874 --> 00:49:17,844
Or maybe, every single
sighting of things in the sky

797
00:49:17,878 --> 00:49:21,123
is a product of our
collective consciousness.

798
00:49:21,158 --> 00:49:24,540
A false hope that humanity
desperately needs

799
00:49:24,575 --> 00:49:26,853
intervention
by external powers.

800
00:49:28,095 --> 00:49:30,719
We've always looked
to the skies for answers

801
00:49:31,754 --> 00:49:34,205
instead of looking
into ourselves.

802
00:49:38,209 --> 00:49:41,212
All right, so when, at
what point... Describe the evolution

803
00:49:41,247 --> 00:49:43,870
of your knowledge here, I mean,
that you realized that this thing

804
00:49:43,904 --> 00:49:46,597
that you were working on
came out of a flying saucer?

805
00:49:48,012 --> 00:49:51,084
Well, of course, I know that
technology doesn't exist at all.

806
00:49:51,118 --> 00:49:53,224
Why? It doesn't.

807
00:49:53,259 --> 00:49:54,501
Take my word for it.

808
00:49:56,054 --> 00:49:57,297
It's...

809
00:50:00,887 --> 00:50:03,061
It's just technology
that doesn't exist yet.

810
00:50:03,096 --> 00:50:06,064
I mean, you're talking
about... There is...

811
00:50:06,099 --> 00:50:08,826
Science doesn't even know
what gravity is,

812
00:50:08,860 --> 00:50:11,829
much less how to
produce it or control it.

813
00:50:11,863 --> 00:50:15,039
And here is a device that's
producing it and controlling it

814
00:50:15,073 --> 00:50:17,835
and using it as propulsion,
so...

815
00:50:19,871 --> 00:50:22,426
You're telling me
there's a different physics?

816
00:50:22,460 --> 00:50:24,359
That was your job,
you were working on that?

817
00:50:24,393 --> 00:50:27,154
The science was something
we were trying to figure out.

818
00:50:27,189 --> 00:50:30,261
But we knew how the devices
would operate.

819
00:50:30,296 --> 00:50:32,953
You know, for instance,
the propulsion of the craft,

820
00:50:33,506 --> 00:50:35,715
everything that we have,

821
00:50:35,749 --> 00:50:39,891
whether it's a propeller plane
or a jet or a rocket,

822
00:50:40,789 --> 00:50:43,101
it throws something
out the back.

823
00:50:43,136 --> 00:50:46,726
Either high-speed exhaust,
or a large volume of air.

824
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:48,762
It's an
action-reaction force.

825
00:50:48,797 --> 00:50:51,075
The action is, you throw
something out the back,

826
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:53,733
and it moves you forward,
it's how everything works.

827
00:50:53,767 --> 00:50:56,598
This is the first time
there's a craft,

828
00:50:56,632 --> 00:50:59,359
it's a reaction-less craft.

829
00:50:59,394 --> 00:51:01,188
It's a field-propulsion craft.

830
00:51:01,223 --> 00:51:03,398
And what it does
is it creates a distortion

831
00:51:03,432 --> 00:51:08,506
in space and time in front of
it. Where space actually bends.

832
00:51:08,541 --> 00:51:11,889
And my analogy to that
has always been

833
00:51:11,923 --> 00:51:14,478
you put a bowling ball
in the middle of your bed

834
00:51:14,512 --> 00:51:15,824
and then a foot
in front of it,

835
00:51:15,858 --> 00:51:18,067
take your fist and push
down on the mattress,

836
00:51:18,102 --> 00:51:20,691
the bowling ball
will roll towards it.

837
00:51:20,725 --> 00:51:22,451
And that's exactly
how the craft worked.

838
00:51:22,486 --> 00:51:26,352
It creates a distortion right in front
of it and the craft follows forward.

839
00:51:26,386 --> 00:51:28,457
Right. So there's
a different physics that--

840
00:51:28,492 --> 00:51:32,634
Well, the science that explains
how the technology works.

841
00:51:32,668 --> 00:51:34,601
I mean, it's all
encompassed as one thing,

842
00:51:34,636 --> 00:51:37,363
alien technology and science.

843
00:51:37,397 --> 00:51:39,365
What is the big picture?

844
00:51:39,399 --> 00:51:44,680
What is the takeaway of your
story after you're gone?

845
00:51:44,715 --> 00:51:46,510
You're not a rebel kid

846
00:51:46,544 --> 00:51:49,271
with a jet car
at Los Alamos today.

847
00:51:49,306 --> 00:51:51,687
Today's a different
Bob Lazar, right?

848
00:51:51,722 --> 00:51:53,033
Right. What have we learned?

849
00:51:53,068 --> 00:51:54,932
What's the message
of your story?

850
00:51:54,966 --> 00:51:59,902
The big thing is the suppression
of extremely advanced technology.

851
00:52:01,145 --> 00:52:05,805
And the suppression of
unknown science. That's it.

852
00:52:06,564 --> 00:52:09,118
Those two things,

853
00:52:09,153 --> 00:52:14,469
to me, is the only thing that's important
about what was going on out there.

854
00:52:14,503 --> 00:52:18,024
Yeah, there's
another civilization

855
00:52:19,232 --> 00:52:21,924
and, like I've said before,
that's a crime

856
00:52:21,959 --> 00:52:26,308
not to tell humanity about that,
but that's a separate thing.

857
00:52:26,343 --> 00:52:31,693
Meaning that there is something
different in science dramatically

858
00:52:31,727 --> 00:52:33,867
that we're not
allowed to know? Right.

859
00:52:35,593 --> 00:52:37,940
Right. That is a true statement?

860
00:52:37,975 --> 00:52:39,701
Yeah, that's a true statement.

861
00:52:41,358 --> 00:52:46,086
The fact that there is another intelligent,
technologically advanced civilization,

862
00:52:46,121 --> 00:52:48,054
we have some of their objects.

863
00:52:48,088 --> 00:52:50,021
That is really the pinnacle,

864
00:52:52,265 --> 00:52:55,648
that there is another
civilization in existence

865
00:52:55,682 --> 00:52:57,995
that's intelligent
that we know about.

866
00:52:58,029 --> 00:53:02,275
And we actually have artifacts
from them that can operate.

867
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:06,072
So, I mean,
that's a big, big deal.

868
00:53:06,106 --> 00:53:09,075
But, in my mind, there's
a lot to deal with that.

869
00:53:11,284 --> 00:53:17,704
However, the science and technology
can change us dramatically,

870
00:53:17,739 --> 00:53:19,982
can change the way
the entire world operates,

871
00:53:20,017 --> 00:53:21,467
the economy, everything.

872
00:53:23,123 --> 00:53:28,025
So those stick out in my mind
as being critically important.

873
00:53:29,647 --> 00:53:32,029
And we have it? Oh, we have them.

874
00:53:33,168 --> 00:53:35,757
You don't have to believe it,
but we do.

875
00:53:36,930 --> 00:53:39,277
And you've seen it? I've seen it.

876
00:53:40,417 --> 00:53:41,797
And you've touched it?

877
00:53:41,832 --> 00:53:43,247
I've dismantled it.

878
00:53:47,527 --> 00:53:50,357
After you're exposed to it,
just for a little while,

879
00:53:50,392 --> 00:53:52,739
it begins to settle in your
mind, these are normal things.

880
00:53:52,774 --> 00:53:56,812
Like, "Okay, 115 belong there on the
chart, and these... this flies,

881
00:53:56,847 --> 00:53:58,504
and this is how gravity works,
great."

882
00:53:58,538 --> 00:54:02,956
It's like someone being...
From the 1800s being exposed

883
00:54:02,991 --> 00:54:05,994
to a car for a few days. He takes
it for granted very quickly.

884
00:54:07,513 --> 00:54:11,827
The most shocking thing was when I
actually got to look inside the disc,

885
00:54:11,862 --> 00:54:14,520
the seats in the panel
associated with them

886
00:54:14,554 --> 00:54:17,695
were very small, they were, you know,
perhaps that far off the ground.

887
00:54:17,730 --> 00:54:19,766
Like something...
Now, you've...

888
00:54:19,801 --> 00:54:24,288
If we had made something like that we
wouldn't have made it to fit children.

889
00:54:24,322 --> 00:54:26,117
It was, uh...

890
00:54:26,152 --> 00:54:28,292
It just lead me to believe,
with the size

891
00:54:28,326 --> 00:54:30,812
of the alien cadavers
that I saw,

892
00:54:31,675 --> 00:54:33,470
with the size of the seats
inside...

893
00:54:36,956 --> 00:54:41,132
Memory is a mirage
and mistress to desire,

894
00:54:43,514 --> 00:54:45,930
shapeshifting and ethereal.

895
00:54:45,965 --> 00:54:49,071
She's inherently
elusive and malleable.

896
00:54:51,522 --> 00:54:55,284
We acknowledge her if it suits
our fantasy in the moment.

897
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,496
We fear her because
she's unpredictable.

898
00:55:00,945 --> 00:55:03,465
Can we trust our own memories?

899
00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:06,503
What if we can't?
What if we can?

900
00:55:07,469 --> 00:55:09,954
Can we return to
the scene of the crime

901
00:55:09,989 --> 00:55:12,543
to extract hidden details

902
00:55:12,578 --> 00:55:16,271
and to see more clearly
what we thought we saw?

903
00:55:18,445 --> 00:55:23,105
I was told... The rhythmic
shouting and the constant threats,

904
00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:25,038
that's a form of hypnosis.

905
00:55:25,073 --> 00:55:27,282
When did they...
When did this happen?

906
00:55:28,248 --> 00:55:30,181
Oh, this happened
almost immediately.

907
00:55:30,216 --> 00:55:32,287
They started yelling
and screaming at you?

908
00:55:32,321 --> 00:55:33,702
Yeah.

909
00:55:33,737 --> 00:55:36,705
Fun place to work.

910
00:55:36,740 --> 00:55:40,537
Well, no. Like I said, it was a
terrible atmosphere to work in.

911
00:55:40,571 --> 00:55:42,021
But when you weigh that

912
00:55:43,125 --> 00:55:45,265
with what you're
going to be around,

913
00:55:46,439 --> 00:55:48,441
you'll basically
go through anything.

914
00:55:48,475 --> 00:55:52,065
"Yeah, go ahead. When can we go
back to the flying saucers?"

915
00:55:54,136 --> 00:55:56,207
You did hypnosis

916
00:55:56,242 --> 00:55:59,003
Mmm-hmm. to try to recall details

917
00:55:59,038 --> 00:56:01,972
from your employment
and from the physics...

918
00:56:02,006 --> 00:56:05,044
Right....of what you learned.
Is that correct?

919
00:56:05,078 --> 00:56:07,943
Yeah, that's correct.
With Layne Keck.Okay.

920
00:56:07,978 --> 00:56:10,567
And did you recall anything?

921
00:56:10,601 --> 00:56:13,742
Yeah, I did. I mean, specifics,
things you might have missed.

922
00:56:13,777 --> 00:56:16,883
I basically wanted to try
everything I could

923
00:56:16,918 --> 00:56:18,609
to prove what I was saying.

924
00:56:18,644 --> 00:56:20,162
So this was just another tool.

925
00:56:20,197 --> 00:56:23,994
You're familiar that
hypnosis can work to recall--

926
00:56:24,028 --> 00:56:26,824
Yeah. And I had--
had it done to me before.

927
00:56:26,859 --> 00:56:30,448
So, I'd had proven that, yeah,
this really does do something.

928
00:56:30,483 --> 00:56:34,763
Let's try and remember
some fine details.

929
00:56:34,798 --> 00:56:37,663
You wanted to recall some
physics that you learned there?

930
00:56:37,697 --> 00:56:41,701
Yeah, I wanted to recall
as much as I possibly could.

931
00:56:41,736 --> 00:56:43,600
I mean, so much went
through my mind.

932
00:56:43,634 --> 00:56:46,223
Just imagine all the things
you were seeing.

933
00:56:46,257 --> 00:56:50,503
And everyone is
completely fascinating

934
00:56:50,537 --> 00:56:53,817
and something you haven't seen before.
It's just data overload.

935
00:56:53,851 --> 00:56:55,404
So I was hoping that

936
00:56:56,543 --> 00:56:58,684
hypnosis would get me
relaxed enough

937
00:56:58,718 --> 00:57:01,376
where maybe, everything
was packed so tight together,

938
00:57:01,410 --> 00:57:03,792
maybe I could just start
thumbing through things

939
00:57:03,827 --> 00:57:07,796
and just pick up even a
couple little more tidbits

940
00:57:07,831 --> 00:57:11,179
could paint a bigger
picture and I could,

941
00:57:11,213 --> 00:57:14,044
you know, possibly
explain things better.

942
00:57:14,078 --> 00:57:17,979
Or, you know, possibly locate
some of these other guys

943
00:57:18,013 --> 00:57:20,084
or anything,
any bit of information.

944
00:57:20,119 --> 00:57:22,984
So, yeah.
It was pretty handy.

945
00:57:23,018 --> 00:57:25,434
So you did recall
some things, technically--Yeah.

946
00:57:25,469 --> 00:57:26,504
Technically? Yeah.

947
00:57:26,539 --> 00:57:29,542
Technical things and
probably others too.

948
00:57:33,201 --> 00:57:36,618
More and more
hypnosis is accepted,

949
00:57:36,653 --> 00:57:40,208
however, there's still a lot
of misconceptions about it.

950
00:57:40,242 --> 00:57:42,072
Like what?

951
00:57:42,106 --> 00:57:46,214
Oh. They think that
you go into a trance

952
00:57:46,248 --> 00:57:49,320
and the hypnotist does something
and you don't remember it,

953
00:57:49,355 --> 00:57:51,460
and all of a sudden
your life changes.

954
00:57:51,495 --> 00:57:56,500
And that's not the case at all.
There's no mind control happening.

955
00:57:58,088 --> 00:58:00,400
Take a nice deep breath.

956
00:58:00,435 --> 00:58:05,026
Close your eyes
and just think relaxation.

957
00:58:08,374 --> 00:58:11,618
Now, just think about your
head and relax your head.

958
00:58:16,002 --> 00:58:18,004
Now, what I want you to do

959
00:58:18,039 --> 00:58:21,421
is to get as comfortable
as you possibly can.

960
00:58:22,112 --> 00:58:24,942
And just relax completely.

961
00:58:24,977 --> 00:58:27,462
Now, double your relaxation

962
00:58:27,496 --> 00:58:30,499
and the number 100
will be there.

963
00:58:31,431 --> 00:58:33,537
One, zero, zero.

964
00:58:34,331 --> 00:58:36,609
Double your relaxation.

965
00:58:36,643 --> 00:58:40,578
And the number 99
will come right on in.

966
00:58:43,685 --> 00:58:45,549
Bob. Bob.

967
00:58:46,343 --> 00:58:48,621
From this moment on...

968
00:58:48,655 --> 00:58:50,588
From this moment on,

969
00:58:50,623 --> 00:58:55,628
you will recall and remember
the material that you seek.

970
00:58:55,662 --> 00:59:01,047
And no one or nothing,
past, present or future

971
00:59:01,082 --> 00:59:03,084
will stand in your way.

972
00:59:03,740 --> 00:59:08,330
Bob. Bob. Bob.

973
00:59:08,365 --> 00:59:13,197
You will remember
because you desire

974
00:59:13,232 --> 00:59:16,442
to remember.

975
00:59:17,477 --> 00:59:19,100
To remember.

976
00:59:23,035 --> 00:59:24,622
At one point,

977
00:59:27,246 --> 00:59:30,318
he was in hypnosis,

978
00:59:30,352 --> 00:59:34,115
I think he was
drawing a reactor.

979
00:59:34,149 --> 00:59:36,393
He was trying to recall
what was in the books.

980
00:59:36,427 --> 00:59:40,984
He saw in the book
and then I told him,

981
00:59:41,018 --> 00:59:44,539
"Well, you'll come up and open your
eyes, and you will be able to draw."

982
00:59:44,573 --> 00:59:48,854
And he did. But it
didn't mean anything to him.

983
00:59:50,614 --> 00:59:57,000
But it was a drawing
that he drew this way.

984
00:59:57,034 --> 01:00:00,141
Oh, no way! But it was this way.

985
01:00:00,175 --> 01:00:03,558
And so afterwards,
he looked at it,

986
01:00:03,592 --> 01:00:06,837
you know, he came back over
and sat down here for a while

987
01:00:06,872 --> 01:00:10,323
and, "Oh, that's because..."
All he had to do was turn it.

988
01:00:10,358 --> 01:00:12,636
So that's the superconscious

989
01:00:12,670 --> 01:00:15,742
and literal, the subconscious
takes things literal.

990
01:00:15,777 --> 01:00:17,675
Right. Like, it's
like the mind is absorbing

991
01:00:17,710 --> 01:00:20,713
all this stuff, and then he discovers
what his mind had absorbed.

992
01:00:20,747 --> 01:00:22,888
He's remembering. Yeah.

993
01:00:22,922 --> 01:00:24,855
I was writing so fast.

994
01:00:24,890 --> 01:00:28,479
I can't imagine
what you were thinking too.

995
01:00:28,514 --> 01:00:31,931
Because you're discovering
with them that kind of shock.

996
01:00:33,001 --> 01:00:34,658
What's the truth?

997
01:00:34,692 --> 01:00:39,525
Hypnosis is the best possible
tool of getting to the truth.

998
01:00:39,559 --> 01:00:42,148
If a person makes
things up normally,

999
01:00:42,183 --> 01:00:45,911
they can lie under hypnosis just
as easily as out of hypnosis.

1000
01:00:45,945 --> 01:00:50,501
But if they're really trying to
get to and retrieve information,

1001
01:00:50,536 --> 01:00:52,814
then it's the best tool
that I know of.

1002
01:00:56,783 --> 01:00:59,648
He came in to find out
what he didn't know.

1003
01:00:59,683 --> 01:01:03,652
We were able to go back,
overcome the fear

1004
01:01:03,687 --> 01:01:05,585
and bring forth
those memories.

1005
01:01:10,936 --> 01:01:13,973
According to Lazar, his
employer was the United States Navy.

1006
01:01:14,008 --> 01:01:17,666
He says he and other government
employees would gather near EG&G,

1007
01:01:17,701 --> 01:01:20,773
fly to Groom Lake, then a very
few people would get into a bus

1008
01:01:20,807 --> 01:01:23,983
with blacked-out or no
windows and ride to S4.

1009
01:01:24,018 --> 01:01:26,710
So, you get off
the bus, what do you see?

1010
01:01:26,744 --> 01:01:31,163
It's a very interesting
building, it's got a slope

1011
01:01:31,197 --> 01:01:32,819
of probably about 30 degrees.

1012
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:35,822
Which are hangar doors.

1013
01:01:35,857 --> 01:01:39,343
And it has textured paint on
it, but it looks like sand.

1014
01:01:39,378 --> 01:01:40,966
It's made to look like
the side of a mountain.

1015
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,969
Whether to disguise it from
satellite photographs or what.

1016
01:01:44,003 --> 01:01:46,730
He says he was never
told exactly what he'd be working on

1017
01:01:46,764 --> 01:01:49,595
but figured it had something to
do with advanced propulsion.

1018
01:01:49,629 --> 01:01:52,287
On his first day, he was told
to read a series of briefings

1019
01:01:52,322 --> 01:01:55,773
and immediately realized how
advanced the propulsion was.

1020
01:01:55,808 --> 01:01:58,397
The power sources
and antimatter reactor,

1021
01:01:59,639 --> 01:02:02,504
they run gravity amplifiers.

1022
01:02:02,539 --> 01:02:05,818
There's actually two parts
to the drive mechanism.

1023
01:02:06,508 --> 01:02:08,579
Uh, it's a bizarre technology.

1024
01:02:08,614 --> 01:02:13,722
There's no physical hookup between
any of the systems in there.

1025
01:02:13,757 --> 01:02:17,795
They use gravity as a wave, using
wave guides, almost like microwaves.

1026
01:02:17,830 --> 01:02:21,765
Polygrapher Terry Tavernetti
runs a corporate security operation

1027
01:02:21,799 --> 01:02:24,319
and is a former
Los Angeles police officer.

1028
01:02:24,354 --> 01:02:26,425
He put Lazar
through four tests

1029
01:02:26,459 --> 01:02:28,772
and concluded there was
no attempt to deceive.

1030
01:02:28,806 --> 01:02:31,154
I left there
thinking that, um...

1031
01:02:31,188 --> 01:02:36,538
...I feel we do have some credibility
to what the subject had to say.

1032
01:02:36,573 --> 01:02:38,989
And that's when I went
to some of my colleagues.

1033
01:02:39,024 --> 01:02:42,130
Tavernetti sent the
test results to a third polygrapher

1034
01:02:42,165 --> 01:02:44,063
who agreed the results
appeared truthful.

1035
01:02:46,341 --> 01:02:47,998
Bob has explained
to me multiple times,

1036
01:02:48,033 --> 01:02:51,484
he tried everything in his
power to prove his story.

1037
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:53,279
I wanted to feel
better for myself.

1038
01:02:53,314 --> 01:02:56,627
So I said, "Hey, would you be willing
to undergo a polygraph test?"

1039
01:02:56,662 --> 01:02:58,319
He did not hesitate.
He said, "Yes."

1040
01:02:58,353 --> 01:03:02,392
Four different tests on four
different areas of Bob's claims,

1041
01:03:02,426 --> 01:03:06,016
and he said afterwards, "There was
no attempt to deceive at all."

1042
01:03:06,051 --> 01:03:08,605
He's telling what he believes
to be the truth.

1043
01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:11,090
I have asked the question
many times over the years,

1044
01:03:11,125 --> 01:03:14,576
"How did Bob Lazar know this
stuff if he wasn't there?"

1045
01:03:14,611 --> 01:03:16,164
He knew there was
a place called S4.

1046
01:03:16,199 --> 01:03:19,029
I called Dallas Air Force Base
public information office.

1047
01:03:19,064 --> 01:03:21,756
They confirmed. Told me there
really was a place called S4.

1048
01:03:21,790 --> 01:03:24,655
Now, there's no news story
prior to Bob Lazar

1049
01:03:24,690 --> 01:03:26,588
about any place called S4.

1050
01:03:26,623 --> 01:03:29,833
He knew about it.
He also knew EG&G

1051
01:03:29,867 --> 01:03:32,042
had arranged to
hire personnel,

1052
01:03:32,077 --> 01:03:35,011
that if you were going to get
a job out of Groom Lake,

1053
01:03:35,045 --> 01:03:37,496
EG&G was the company
that you would go through.

1054
01:03:37,530 --> 01:03:40,878
He knew that there had been
investigators at his home

1055
01:03:40,913 --> 01:03:43,295
for the background check,
he remembered the guy's name.

1056
01:03:43,329 --> 01:03:46,401
It was an odd name Mike Thigpen.
Now, how did he know?

1057
01:03:46,436 --> 01:03:51,096
How did he know that Mike Thigpen works for
a federal agency that does this stuff?

1058
01:03:51,130 --> 01:03:56,549
After 30 years, and this guy
dodging you, I found Mike Thigpen.

1059
01:03:56,584 --> 01:03:58,379
I found Thigpen. That's amazing.

1060
01:03:58,413 --> 01:04:01,692
I couldn't believe it.
He's on the east coast.

1061
01:04:01,727 --> 01:04:03,936
I called him, I've talked
with him multiple times.

1062
01:04:03,970 --> 01:04:07,077
You know, he won't go on camera
because he doesn't want to

1063
01:04:07,112 --> 01:04:11,047
kind of put a dark shadow upon
the work that he did before,

1064
01:04:11,081 --> 01:04:15,465
but, personally, he conveyed
to me that that was his job,

1065
01:04:15,499 --> 01:04:19,779
that was exactly what he did
in Las Vegas in 1989.

1066
01:04:19,814 --> 01:04:21,954
And, in fact,
he remembers Bob Lazar.

1067
01:04:21,988 --> 01:04:23,956
Most
important thing Bob knew

1068
01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:28,029
is that they were flying something that
looks exactly like the flying saucer

1069
01:04:28,064 --> 01:04:29,513
over Papoose Lake.

1070
01:04:29,548 --> 01:04:31,722
And they flew up
on Wednesday nights.

1071
01:04:31,757 --> 01:04:34,898
And he took people out
there three weeks in a row

1072
01:04:34,932 --> 01:04:36,762
and showed it to them.

1073
01:04:36,796 --> 01:04:40,697
And at least once, maybe twice, they
recorded it on video. That's real.

1074
01:04:40,731 --> 01:04:43,044
How did Bob know that?
There had been no stories

1075
01:04:43,079 --> 01:04:46,116
about test flights and flying
saucers at Papoose Lake.

1076
01:04:46,151 --> 01:04:49,361
And by the way, that's where it was.
It wasn't over Groom Lake,

1077
01:04:49,395 --> 01:04:50,638
it was over Papoose Lake.

1078
01:04:50,672 --> 01:04:54,193
We checked out so many
details that Bob had told us

1079
01:04:54,228 --> 01:04:55,746
that turned out to be true.

1080
01:04:55,781 --> 01:04:59,095
The existence of S4.
Element 115

1081
01:04:59,129 --> 01:05:01,476
really did become an element
years later

1082
01:05:01,511 --> 01:05:04,514
that Bob had been consulted
by the lab

1083
01:05:04,548 --> 01:05:07,689
which first synthesized
man-made element 115.

1084
01:05:07,724 --> 01:05:13,281
There was a whole long string of
things that he knew that checked out.

1085
01:05:13,316 --> 01:05:15,421
These milestones
along the way,

1086
01:05:15,456 --> 01:05:17,596
no matter how much
we nitpick it apart,

1087
01:05:17,630 --> 01:05:19,460
no matter how much people
don't want to believe it,

1088
01:05:19,494 --> 01:05:24,120
the evidence that he's telling the truth
outweighs the evidence that he's not.

1089
01:05:24,154 --> 01:05:27,053
Well, I agree with you. And
if I did not believe that,

1090
01:05:27,088 --> 01:05:29,711
I would not still be working
on the story,

1091
01:05:29,746 --> 01:05:32,128
I would not be publicly
defending Bob Lazar.

1092
01:05:38,134 --> 01:05:40,205
What was your
function at working on this,

1093
01:05:40,239 --> 01:05:42,138
you were doing what?

1094
01:05:42,172 --> 01:05:44,243
What was your job?

1095
01:05:44,278 --> 01:05:47,350
We were to
reverse-engineer

1096
01:05:47,384 --> 01:05:51,423
the power and propulsion
system of this craft

1097
01:05:51,457 --> 01:05:56,255
and see if it can be duplicated
with available materials.

1098
01:05:57,705 --> 01:06:00,121
I just want to
go over with you

1099
01:06:00,156 --> 01:06:05,126
what is it that you saw, to draw it
out for people, to make a sketch.

1100
01:06:05,161 --> 01:06:08,543
As you're seeing it, as if
you're there at that moment.

1101
01:06:08,578 --> 01:06:10,200
You've got to go
back in the past.

1102
01:06:12,444 --> 01:06:15,619
Something I termed,
the "Sport Model."

1103
01:06:16,448 --> 01:06:18,104
Underneath this floor,

1104
01:06:19,140 --> 01:06:20,624
there are three...

1105
01:06:22,799 --> 01:06:24,870
Three large
cylindrical devices.

1106
01:06:26,043 --> 01:06:28,667
These are on mounts
that allow them

1107
01:06:28,701 --> 01:06:31,670
to completely swivel
up to 180 degrees,

1108
01:06:31,704 --> 01:06:34,673
and in 360-degree rotation.

1109
01:06:34,707 --> 01:06:36,537
Directly above each one

1110
01:06:37,262 --> 01:06:39,298
is a small rectangular object.

1111
01:06:40,644 --> 01:06:42,198
This is on the floor above.

1112
01:06:43,544 --> 01:06:46,650
And these are the gravity
amplifiers themselves.

1113
01:06:47,893 --> 01:06:49,895
Looking down from the top,

1114
01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:56,764
you'd have the center.
In the very center,

1115
01:06:56,798 --> 01:06:59,284
there is a small reactor.

1116
01:07:00,802 --> 01:07:03,253
Surrounding this,

1117
01:07:03,288 --> 01:07:08,465
in three equally-spaced areas
are the amplifiers.

1118
01:07:08,500 --> 01:07:11,917
So, this is looking at it sideways, this
is looking at it down from the top.

1119
01:07:11,951 --> 01:07:16,232
And under these amplifiers,
underneath the floor below

1120
01:07:17,163 --> 01:07:18,613
are the gravity emitters.

1121
01:07:20,305 --> 01:07:24,240
So it's the reactor here
powering the gravity amplifiers.

1122
01:07:24,274 --> 01:07:29,797
Gravity amplifiers' output goes into
the gravity emitters at the bottom,

1123
01:07:29,831 --> 01:07:34,905
and the resulting gravity beam
or anti-gravity wave can be

1124
01:07:36,217 --> 01:07:38,254
pretty much put
anywhere you want to.

1125
01:07:39,289 --> 01:07:40,670
Um...

1126
01:07:40,704 --> 01:07:42,706
There was
another level up here.

1127
01:07:42,741 --> 01:07:45,399
Now, I had access
and was permitted

1128
01:07:45,433 --> 01:07:49,265
to view and look at the
operation of this main level,

1129
01:07:49,299 --> 01:07:53,303
with the gravity amplifiers
and the level below,

1130
01:07:53,338 --> 01:07:54,718
the gravity emitters.

1131
01:07:56,513 --> 01:07:59,516
There is a level above,

1132
01:07:59,551 --> 01:08:04,763
which consisted of these two areas
that I'm not all that familiar with.

1133
01:08:04,797 --> 01:08:10,941
I assume these to be some sort
of navigational engine.

1134
01:08:12,633 --> 01:08:15,187
People called these large
black rectangular areas

1135
01:08:15,221 --> 01:08:18,466
on the top "potholes,"
I believe they were

1136
01:08:18,501 --> 01:08:20,365
some planar sensor array

1137
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:24,817
that just took in information
from the surrounding area,

1138
01:08:24,852 --> 01:08:29,857
whether it be patterns of
stars or what have you.

1139
01:08:29,891 --> 01:08:35,000
And there was their version of a computer
or something to make determinations here

1140
01:08:35,034 --> 01:08:37,071
that takes input
from those sensors

1141
01:08:37,105 --> 01:08:40,350
and then lets the craft know
how to orient itself

1142
01:08:40,385 --> 01:08:42,870
and where it was in space.

1143
01:08:42,904 --> 01:08:46,011
So, that's what I
assume to be out there.

1144
01:08:46,045 --> 01:08:49,566
I don't know for a fact, again,
that was not part of my job,

1145
01:08:49,601 --> 01:08:52,569
and I was only led
to believe that.

1146
01:08:52,604 --> 01:08:58,161
The center antenna is really an
extension of the reactor in the center.

1147
01:08:58,195 --> 01:09:02,199
And that's a wave guide
which allows

1148
01:09:02,234 --> 01:09:06,272
the emission of the gravity wave,
which forms kind of a heart-shape

1149
01:09:06,307 --> 01:09:08,827
over the whole craft.

1150
01:09:10,069 --> 01:09:12,209
That's how it creates
its distortion.

1151
01:09:14,142 --> 01:09:19,044
These gravity emitters can be swung
all the way up to 180 degrees.

1152
01:09:20,356 --> 01:09:25,395
And this allows the craft
to essentially stand

1153
01:09:25,430 --> 01:09:27,535
on two of them and hover

1154
01:09:27,570 --> 01:09:31,815
while this one swings up and creates
a distortion in front of it,

1155
01:09:31,850 --> 01:09:34,508
allowing the craft
to slide forward.

1156
01:09:34,542 --> 01:09:36,889
So that's how their
low-power mode

1157
01:09:38,201 --> 01:09:40,997
omicron configuration
operates.

1158
01:09:41,998 --> 01:09:45,242
The delta configuration
uses all three.

1159
01:09:45,277 --> 01:09:49,695
And unlike science-fiction movies
where you see flying saucers

1160
01:09:49,730 --> 01:09:51,145
just flying on like that,

1161
01:09:51,179 --> 01:09:55,391
they actually fly belly first.
The craft flies along,

1162
01:09:55,425 --> 01:09:59,843
leaves the atmosphere of the planet,
it turns its belly to the destination,

1163
01:09:59,878 --> 01:10:02,915
the three amplifiers
focus in on the destination,

1164
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:04,469
and that's how it proceeds.

1165
01:10:06,263 --> 01:10:08,093
So that's basically
the operation of it

1166
01:10:08,127 --> 01:10:12,235
and overall how things were
laid out inside the craft.

1167
01:10:12,269 --> 01:10:14,237
This is
an alien spacecraft.

1168
01:10:14,824 --> 01:10:16,688
Right. Obviously.

1169
01:11:08,809 --> 01:11:10,535
This was the
Albuquerque Journal.

1170
01:11:10,569 --> 01:11:13,296
Is that the particle
accelerator you had? Yeah.

1171
01:11:13,330 --> 01:11:15,263
The guy that promised
not to say anything

1172
01:11:15,298 --> 01:11:17,818
that won't say anything
about the UFOs.

1173
01:11:19,509 --> 01:11:21,407
The article's titled...

1174
01:11:21,442 --> 01:11:23,099
"'UFO Guy' in Spotlight."

1175
01:11:25,239 --> 01:11:26,861
Thanks, dude.

1176
01:11:26,896 --> 01:11:30,555
Isn't that when, after this came in
there, then the fire department, police,

1177
01:11:32,108 --> 01:11:34,524
the zoning commission, everybody
descended on our house.

1178
01:11:34,559 --> 01:11:38,977
Yeah, and wanted to know who. Here's
"Lab Supplier in Controversy."

1179
01:11:39,011 --> 01:11:40,979
Oh, look at that.

1180
01:11:41,013 --> 01:11:44,292
So originally, the thing was
supposed to be about what?

1181
01:11:44,327 --> 01:11:46,225
What did the guy
say the article--

1182
01:11:46,260 --> 01:11:49,539
The hydrogen car, I think--Well, the raid.
It was about the raid.

1183
01:11:51,334 --> 01:11:52,577
This one? Yeah, that's why,

1184
01:11:52,611 --> 01:11:55,545
"Lab Supplier in Controversy."
Yeah. Oh, okay.

1185
01:11:55,580 --> 01:11:57,029
The raid in New Mexico.

1186
01:11:58,444 --> 01:12:01,896
The guy called, and he said, "Hey, I
heard about the raid and all that.

1187
01:12:01,931 --> 01:12:04,071
Can I come and do that?"

1188
01:12:04,105 --> 01:12:07,661
And then he says, "Are you
Bob Lazar, the Area 51 guy?"

1189
01:12:07,695 --> 01:12:09,870
I said, "Yeah,

1190
01:12:09,904 --> 01:12:13,183
but I don't want to get into that,
this is something more important."

1191
01:12:13,218 --> 01:12:16,290
He said, "Oh, yeah, we won't
even mention it, no problem."

1192
01:12:16,324 --> 01:12:19,569
Literally, your house
was taken over by a SWAT team?

1193
01:12:19,604 --> 01:12:20,984
Yeah.Yes.

1194
01:12:21,019 --> 01:12:24,125
They don't just send a letter
in the mail or call us.

1195
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,888
Right. Have the whole SWAT team

1196
01:12:28,820 --> 01:12:30,546
invite themselves
to our home.

1197
01:12:32,099 --> 01:12:34,929
Hidden things
are the most seductive.

1198
01:12:34,964 --> 01:12:38,588
Secrets reach
deep into our desire.

1199
01:12:38,623 --> 01:12:43,006
They titillate and torment us
like a ticking clock

1200
01:12:43,041 --> 01:12:45,871
or a distant alarm
with no origin.

1201
01:12:45,906 --> 01:12:48,667
They agitate us
and force us to react.

1202
01:12:48,702 --> 01:12:51,187
They endanger
our complacency.

1203
01:12:53,016 --> 01:12:55,916
There was a missing element
to your faith.

1204
01:12:55,950 --> 01:12:57,607
But that's the
nature of faith,

1205
01:12:58,953 --> 01:13:01,507
that there is something
out there that hovers

1206
01:13:01,542 --> 01:13:04,269
and promises salvation.

1207
01:13:04,303 --> 01:13:08,169
Your call has been forwarded
to an automated voice messaging system.

1208
01:13:08,204 --> 01:13:10,482
At the tone,
please record your message.

1209
01:13:12,242 --> 01:13:15,107
Hey, Jeremy,
it's Bob Lazar.

1210
01:13:15,142 --> 01:13:17,040
Listen. I have
something to ask you.

1211
01:13:17,075 --> 01:13:20,734
Something's really come up
that's important.

1212
01:13:20,768 --> 01:13:23,184
If you would text me

1213
01:13:23,219 --> 01:13:25,911
and let me know when is a
good time to call you,

1214
01:13:25,946 --> 01:13:28,396
I don't want you to call me.

1215
01:13:28,431 --> 01:13:30,709
I just need to run
something by you,

1216
01:13:30,744 --> 01:13:32,228
okay? Thanks, bye.

1217
01:13:39,131 --> 01:13:42,065
All right. So the
only record of this

1218
01:13:42,100 --> 01:13:45,103
is going to be on the audio
on this one file

1219
01:13:45,137 --> 01:13:47,795
and then this video clip,
I'm not going to cut it.

1220
01:13:47,830 --> 01:13:49,314
I'm going to let it run.Understood.

1221
01:13:49,348 --> 01:13:51,696
Okay. And then what I'm going
to do is to encrypt it,

1222
01:13:51,730 --> 01:13:55,216
and then I'm going to put both of those
two files into an encrypted thing

1223
01:13:55,251 --> 01:13:57,978
to not be touched unless we
decide it should be touched.

1224
01:13:58,012 --> 01:13:59,842
Yeah, that's fine.Okay.

1225
01:13:59,876 --> 01:14:03,328
It'll be on two drives. But those two files
will both be in an encrypted folder.

1226
01:14:05,226 --> 01:14:06,642
So here's the deal.

1227
01:14:12,509 --> 01:14:16,099
Did you ever get a piece of
element 115 out of Los Alamos?

1228
01:14:20,103 --> 01:14:22,692
...I don't know how much
monitoring they do with me.

1229
01:14:22,727 --> 01:14:25,522
I'm sure it's virtually none
after all this time.

1230
01:14:25,557 --> 01:14:27,973
The same thing--Hold on a second.

1231
01:14:28,008 --> 01:14:30,217
Do you have your phone on you? Yes.

1232
01:14:30,251 --> 01:14:32,426
Let's, at this point,

1233
01:14:32,460 --> 01:14:35,740
take our phone... Let me put
them on the ground over there.

1234
01:14:35,774 --> 01:14:37,224
I'll turn mine off.

1235
01:14:43,023 --> 01:14:46,302
I mean, maybe this has been
kept from us for a good reason.

1236
01:14:46,336 --> 01:14:49,477
A lot of people agree
to keep this secret.

1237
01:14:49,512 --> 01:14:52,273
So, first of all,
who am I to upset it?

1238
01:14:52,308 --> 01:14:55,138
And second of all, who am I
to outthink these guys.

1239
01:14:55,173 --> 01:14:57,520
Maybe they went over
all these scenarios already,

1240
01:14:57,554 --> 01:15:00,592
and they know how fucked
up everything will be.

1241
01:15:00,626 --> 01:15:03,146
So, there's no guarantee
that this revelation

1242
01:15:03,181 --> 01:15:04,941
is going to make
everything great.

1243
01:15:04,976 --> 01:15:07,979
There's just as much chance it's
going to make everything terrible

1244
01:15:08,013 --> 01:15:09,601
and I'll be to
blame for that.

1245
01:15:16,194 --> 01:15:19,507
They identified
themselves as FBI

1246
01:15:19,542 --> 01:15:22,234
and they said,
"You're Bob Lazar, right?"

1247
01:15:22,269 --> 01:15:24,996
And, you know, one of them
got on the radio

1248
01:15:25,030 --> 01:15:26,825
saying, "Yeah, he's here."

1249
01:15:26,860 --> 01:15:30,691
Apparently, they also had
my house staked out.

1250
01:15:30,726 --> 01:15:35,213
And they were deciding
whether or not to go there.

1251
01:15:35,247 --> 01:15:39,700
The conveyor belt
of vehicles and agents

1252
01:15:39,735 --> 01:15:43,739
and police did not stop.
The whole thing...

1253
01:15:43,773 --> 01:15:46,534
It was like
aTwilight Zone episode.

1254
01:15:46,569 --> 01:15:49,503
They came in and they said, "There'll
be a few other people coming here,

1255
01:15:49,537 --> 01:15:52,126
just got a couple
of questions to ask you."

1256
01:15:52,161 --> 01:15:55,751
In a short time, the street
filled up with vehicles

1257
01:15:55,785 --> 01:15:59,409
and the building completely
filled with agents.

1258
01:15:59,444 --> 01:16:01,239
It was really something else.

1259
01:16:01,273 --> 01:16:04,035
Did they identify
themselves initially--

1260
01:16:04,069 --> 01:16:06,382
Yeah, it was FBI,
identified themselves.

1261
01:16:06,416 --> 01:16:09,626
Then came in state police

1262
01:16:09,661 --> 01:16:12,526
and a few other agencies,
I don't remember who.

1263
01:16:14,873 --> 01:16:17,324
But, there were a lot.
Awful lot.

1264
01:16:17,358 --> 01:16:20,258
Standing room only in the
building. It was crazy.

1265
01:16:20,292 --> 01:16:23,640
They had like a forensic truck,
they had a bunch of different agents,

1266
01:16:23,675 --> 01:16:27,058
they gridded off the building.
I mean, obviously,

1267
01:16:27,092 --> 01:16:28,680
they were looking
for something.

1268
01:16:28,714 --> 01:16:32,615
Yeah. And what they said, they
were looking into some paperwork,

1269
01:16:32,649 --> 01:16:38,241
an old order from two years ago
about a customer that, you know,

1270
01:16:38,276 --> 01:16:40,623
ordered some
potentially toxic material,

1271
01:16:41,624 --> 01:16:45,179
which they could
have called for.

1272
01:16:45,214 --> 01:16:48,182
But this was certainly way
over-the-top.

1273
01:16:48,217 --> 01:16:52,980
I looked up to select the right key
and they were right beside me.

1274
01:16:53,015 --> 01:16:55,017
It was quite surprising,

1275
01:16:55,051 --> 01:16:57,536
considering you can see all
around here,

1276
01:16:57,571 --> 01:17:00,643
and there-- generally would have to be
a vehicle or something Somewhere...

1277
01:17:00,677 --> 01:17:03,301
But I just pulled up,
got out, picked the key,

1278
01:17:03,335 --> 01:17:08,444
and they started talking from behind me.
I thought that was really strange.

1279
01:17:08,478 --> 01:17:10,653
Of course, it got much
stranger as the day went on.

1280
01:17:10,687 --> 01:17:12,482
What got
stranger about it?

1281
01:17:12,517 --> 01:17:16,866
Well, just the sheer amount
of people that came.

1282
01:17:17,729 --> 01:17:19,869
Agency after agency.

1283
01:17:19,904 --> 01:17:23,148
I mean, they had computer
experts here going through,

1284
01:17:23,183 --> 01:17:25,426
you know, all the computer
equipment we had here,

1285
01:17:25,461 --> 01:17:28,533
and they had people
sectioning off the building,

1286
01:17:28,567 --> 01:17:33,331
labeling it in cubic meters
so they can search each one.

1287
01:17:33,365 --> 01:17:36,852
You know, what they were looking
for was just an order form.

1288
01:17:38,750 --> 01:17:39,924
So, very strange.

1289
01:18:01,359 --> 01:18:05,121
You've been raided two times? Twice.

1290
01:18:05,156 --> 01:18:07,744
By more agencies than I can
really recall.

1291
01:18:07,779 --> 01:18:11,162
The FDA to the NRC,

1292
01:18:11,196 --> 01:18:14,613
the FBI, but they
usually come en masse.

1293
01:18:14,648 --> 01:18:16,857
And it's hard to
pick out who's who.

1294
01:18:18,410 --> 01:18:20,757
So this is beryllium? Yeah.

1295
01:18:21,897 --> 01:18:23,622
And what is it used for again?

1296
01:18:23,657 --> 01:18:26,349
It's used in aerospace,
it's very lightweight.

1297
01:18:28,938 --> 01:18:30,388
Quite strong...

1298
01:18:32,217 --> 01:18:34,840
And high-temperature metal.

1299
01:18:34,875 --> 01:18:37,464
Do you think that
you were shaken down...

1300
01:18:37,498 --> 01:18:39,569
To some degree you're being fucked with?

1301
01:18:39,604 --> 01:18:41,502
I don't think they're
just fucking with me.

1302
01:18:41,537 --> 01:18:43,953
I am convinced there's
ulterior motives.

1303
01:18:43,988 --> 01:18:48,958
I firmly suspect
that there's a lot more to it

1304
01:18:48,993 --> 01:18:52,858
than they're saying.
That they're looking for

1305
01:18:52,893 --> 01:18:54,032
something else.

1306
01:18:57,346 --> 01:18:59,003
What they're supposed to do

1307
01:18:59,037 --> 01:19:01,971
is tie you up, put you
in the middle of the room,

1308
01:19:02,006 --> 01:19:05,009
have everyone watching you
so that, you know,

1309
01:19:05,043 --> 01:19:09,185
collaborate a story or, you know,
try to trick them or what not.

1310
01:19:09,220 --> 01:19:12,223
So they just kept us all
in separate rooms.

1311
01:19:12,257 --> 01:19:15,364
There's bomb squad,
computer squad...

1312
01:19:15,398 --> 01:19:18,229
I think they had
like a biological hazard squad,

1313
01:19:18,263 --> 01:19:20,714
hazmat squad,
everything, the full gamut.

1314
01:19:20,748 --> 01:19:24,338
'Cause they had no idea
what we had in our shop

1315
01:19:24,373 --> 01:19:25,753
or, like, what
we're capable of,

1316
01:19:25,788 --> 01:19:28,377
or are we going to retaliate
or anything like that.

1317
01:19:28,411 --> 01:19:30,966
So, it was pretty much
the full Michigan FBI was here.

1318
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,762
I mean, they had the van, they
had multiple cars lined up,

1319
01:19:34,797 --> 01:19:36,316
you know, so...

1320
01:19:36,350 --> 01:19:39,975
I mean, looking at Bob's
life, there's always this suspicion

1321
01:19:40,009 --> 01:19:43,495
that there's something more
going on on shaking him down

1322
01:19:43,530 --> 01:19:45,739
because he had that
experience before.Yeah.

1323
01:19:45,773 --> 01:19:48,293
Yeah, so this was the
second time that I know of

1324
01:19:48,328 --> 01:19:52,297
that he's gotten raided, so he's
always had, like, this kind of

1325
01:19:52,332 --> 01:19:55,473
knowledge that there's somebody
watching, no matter what he does.

1326
01:19:55,507 --> 01:19:57,337
There's always somebody
watching you.

1327
01:19:57,371 --> 01:20:00,685
And it does have to be related to,
what, the Area 51 stuff and all that.

1328
01:20:00,719 --> 01:20:02,928
You know, they kind of
put him on the list.

1329
01:20:02,963 --> 01:20:05,414
I think they do like toying with
him and keeping an eye on him.

1330
01:20:05,448 --> 01:20:07,968
But I don't believe
that it's like

1331
01:20:08,003 --> 01:20:10,039
they're opening up a 30-year-old
file and they're like,

1332
01:20:10,074 --> 01:20:12,041
"All right, we're going to
crack down on the Bob story.

1333
01:20:12,076 --> 01:20:14,112
We're going to find out what he had,
what more information he's got."

1334
01:20:14,147 --> 01:20:16,425
I don't think that they're
necessarily doing that,

1335
01:20:16,459 --> 01:20:18,806
but I do think that there's,
like, a culture,

1336
01:20:18,841 --> 01:20:21,326
maybe within these agencies.
They know who this guy is.

1337
01:20:21,361 --> 01:20:24,709
And they'll have, you know... They'll
look for any reason that they can

1338
01:20:24,743 --> 01:20:27,436
to kind of, you know,
poke him with some thorns

1339
01:20:27,470 --> 01:20:29,921
and make sure that he knows
who's watching him.

1340
01:20:30,301 --> 01:20:31,543
I believe that.

1341
01:20:31,578 --> 01:20:35,375
It's too coincidental
for it all to be just

1342
01:20:35,409 --> 01:20:39,448
some luck of the draw, basically.
Like, there's something going on.

1343
01:20:43,176 --> 01:20:45,247
Everybody
knows the story is

1344
01:20:45,281 --> 01:20:49,699
that you guys had element 115 at Los
Alamos, that's public knowledge.

1345
01:20:49,734 --> 01:20:52,047
Something you said
a while back.

1346
01:20:52,081 --> 01:20:55,464
Do you think that what
happened had to do with that?

1347
01:20:55,498 --> 01:20:56,913
We are not going there.

1348
01:21:04,197 --> 01:21:09,271
Are they trying to
shake you down to find the 115

1349
01:21:09,305 --> 01:21:11,687
that you said, 30 years ago,
that you got out of the lab?

1350
01:21:11,721 --> 01:21:13,551
People are going to ask that.

1351
01:21:13,585 --> 01:21:15,587
Yeah. So let's just address that.

1352
01:21:16,485 --> 01:21:18,728
If you feel comfortable
addressing it...

1353
01:21:18,763 --> 01:21:19,729
No.

1354
01:21:19,764 --> 01:21:21,386
You do not feel comfortable
addressing it?

1355
01:21:21,421 --> 01:21:23,871
No, I don't feel comfortable
addressing it.

1356
01:21:29,222 --> 01:21:32,777
You would think after 30
years, who cares what I have to say?

1357
01:21:48,310 --> 01:21:53,315
I'm more convinced than ever that the
key to the story is element 115.

1358
01:21:53,349 --> 01:21:55,351
If you could
get to that piece

1359
01:21:55,386 --> 01:21:57,560
and have it
independently analyzed,

1360
01:21:57,595 --> 01:22:01,599
I think it would prove beyond all question
that it came from somewhere else.

1361
01:22:01,633 --> 01:22:03,428
We didn't make it.

1362
01:22:03,463 --> 01:22:07,501
And it would go a long way to establishing
the story that was told by Bob Lazar

1363
01:22:07,536 --> 01:22:09,572
as truth, so I think
about that a lot.

1364
01:22:09,607 --> 01:22:11,643
I think about
the cloud chamber experiment.

1365
01:22:11,678 --> 01:22:14,508
I get a lot of emails
from people who say,

1366
01:22:14,543 --> 01:22:16,545
"Oh, God. Where is this video?
You owe it to the world

1367
01:22:16,579 --> 01:22:18,409
to show this video,
cough it up."

1368
01:22:18,443 --> 01:22:20,169
And I tell them,
"Look, I've looked for it,

1369
01:22:20,204 --> 01:22:24,139
I've got all these boxes
of crap and stuff and tape

1370
01:22:24,173 --> 01:22:27,383
and news clippings, and I've looked
for it and I can't find it."

1371
01:22:27,418 --> 01:22:31,801
But when somebody like you comes and
talks to me about the Bob Lazar story,

1372
01:22:31,836 --> 01:22:35,840
it gets the juices flowing, you know.
I can't help it, I'm human.

1373
01:22:35,874 --> 01:22:38,705
And right now, I want
to go find that tape.

1374
01:22:39,844 --> 01:22:41,811
I went through every tape

1375
01:22:41,846 --> 01:22:43,848
that Bob had in his
personal home archive

1376
01:22:43,882 --> 01:22:49,198
and one of those tapes on the outside
in tiny, tiny little scribble

1377
01:22:49,233 --> 01:22:50,510
said, "cloud chamber."

1378
01:22:50,544 --> 01:22:52,408
And lo and behold,

1379
01:22:52,443 --> 01:22:59,001
there's about just less than a minute
of that cloud chamber test on tape.

1380
01:22:59,035 --> 01:23:00,520
I have it.

1381
01:23:00,554 --> 01:23:02,280
People have been so
pissed at me over the years

1382
01:23:02,315 --> 01:23:04,420
that I can't find that tape, or if
they think I'm hiding it on purpose.

1383
01:23:04,455 --> 01:23:06,560
But I've looked everywhere
for it.

1384
01:23:06,595 --> 01:23:08,390
And if you've found it,
that's awesome.

1385
01:23:08,424 --> 01:23:13,291
I did. Now here's the deal in
typical, you know, Bob-Lazar fashion,

1386
01:23:13,326 --> 01:23:15,051
there's only about
a minute of it.

1387
01:23:15,086 --> 01:23:18,952
However, after all these years, 30
years, we have some footage of it.

1388
01:23:18,986 --> 01:23:22,473
But it doesn't prove shit,
because it's recorded over--

1389
01:23:22,507 --> 01:23:26,097
I was there the night that they
did the cloud chamber test.

1390
01:23:26,131 --> 01:23:30,239
I couldn't tell you what it was, I
didn't know what a cloud chamber was.

1391
01:23:30,274 --> 01:23:32,241
This "beam" of light was bent.

1392
01:23:32,276 --> 01:23:35,244
And it was bent
because they had element 115

1393
01:23:35,279 --> 01:23:37,177
in as part of the experiment.

1394
01:23:37,212 --> 01:23:40,491
Well, that's pretty important, that
would be huge to include in the story.

1395
01:23:40,525 --> 01:23:44,080
I spent time trying to understand
why everybody was saying

1396
01:23:44,115 --> 01:23:46,807
this 115 being stabilized
is pseudoscience.

1397
01:23:46,842 --> 01:23:51,053
So I called some of the top
heavy-element physicists on the planet

1398
01:23:51,087 --> 01:23:55,747
from Russia to up in San
Francisco to Washington, DC.

1399
01:23:55,782 --> 01:23:58,578
And I spoke with, you know,
about eight or nine,

1400
01:23:58,612 --> 01:24:02,720
but three in particular who had really
talked to me in depth about it.

1401
01:24:02,754 --> 01:24:07,069
All of them, across the board,
said, "You cannot rule out

1402
01:24:07,103 --> 01:24:10,624
a stabilized version
of element 115.

1403
01:24:10,659 --> 01:24:14,283
In fact, that we
believe it is theorized

1404
01:24:14,318 --> 01:24:17,804
that in the island of stability,
that it would and could

1405
01:24:17,838 --> 01:24:19,323
and probably does exist."

1406
01:24:19,357 --> 01:24:22,015
So their way of saying is,
"We can't rule it out."

1407
01:24:22,049 --> 01:24:24,983
So, all the people saying
that is pseudoscience,

1408
01:24:25,018 --> 01:24:28,159
what Bob said about element
115, I wanted to find out

1409
01:24:28,193 --> 01:24:29,609
is it pseudoscience?

1410
01:24:29,643 --> 01:24:34,372
And definitively, we cannot rule out
a stabilized form of element 115.

1411
01:24:34,407 --> 01:24:36,995
I'm sorry, it is not
pseudoscience.

1412
01:24:37,030 --> 01:24:39,308
And after doing
this research,

1413
01:24:39,343 --> 01:24:42,346
you know, that argument
no longer holds water.

1414
01:24:42,380 --> 01:24:45,003
Makes perfect sense
that it could be stable.

1415
01:24:45,038 --> 01:24:47,696
And scientists have said it
for a long time.

1416
01:24:47,730 --> 01:24:49,801
So, of course you
can't rule it out.

1417
01:24:49,836 --> 01:24:53,218
Again, if you want to
disbelieve Bob,

1418
01:24:53,253 --> 01:24:57,292
if you want to cross him off
the list and say he's a fraud,

1419
01:24:57,326 --> 01:25:00,674
then your research goes
one inch deep,

1420
01:25:00,709 --> 01:25:04,575
and you say element 115 as he
described it, can't exist,

1421
01:25:04,609 --> 01:25:06,508
and then move on.

1422
01:25:06,542 --> 01:25:11,444
If you want to be honest about it and
dig further into it and understand it,

1423
01:25:11,478 --> 01:25:16,034
then you're going to find out that, in
fact, what Bob says does make sense,

1424
01:25:16,069 --> 01:25:17,312
it can be true.

1425
01:25:26,251 --> 01:25:29,185
Element 115 was
what we would call the fuel

1426
01:25:29,220 --> 01:25:32,119
that provided the power
for the reactor to work.

1427
01:25:32,154 --> 01:25:34,674
What happens
with gravity and 115?

1428
01:25:34,708 --> 01:25:37,193
Element 115 affects gravity.

1429
01:25:37,228 --> 01:25:42,164
Element 115 produces
its own gravitational energy.

1430
01:25:42,198 --> 01:25:45,443
It had a very specific
manufacturing technique.

1431
01:25:45,478 --> 01:25:49,447
I don't really know how that
information came to be.

1432
01:25:50,966 --> 01:25:56,178
Its code name
was "LA 1000."

1433
01:25:57,317 --> 01:26:00,078
That's what it was
referred to off-site.

1434
01:26:00,562 --> 01:26:02,978
Its purpose

1435
01:26:03,012 --> 01:26:07,500
was supposed to be, again, this
is just a code in deception,

1436
01:26:07,534 --> 01:26:10,330
was supposed to be
an advanced armor.

1437
01:26:11,918 --> 01:26:15,715
So, it's not a usual material, so now
we can take it to a national lab.

1438
01:26:15,749 --> 01:26:20,892
This is LA 1000, classified material,
it's a very advanced armor.

1439
01:26:20,927 --> 01:26:23,239
That takes care of all
the weird questions.

1440
01:26:23,274 --> 01:26:26,415
So, you know, you immediately
start operating on lies.

1441
01:26:27,589 --> 01:26:28,969
This...

1442
01:26:31,696 --> 01:26:33,077
fuel

1443
01:26:33,974 --> 01:26:36,356
is in the form of a...

1444
01:26:38,945 --> 01:26:43,467
just a three-dimensional thin
triangle, little rounded edges.

1445
01:26:43,501 --> 01:26:46,918
It's somewhat copper in color.

1446
01:26:46,953 --> 01:26:50,439
You know that
reddish brownish...

1447
01:26:50,474 --> 01:26:53,787
The way this is manufactured
is really critical.

1448
01:26:53,822 --> 01:26:57,826
It's not just cut out
of a heavy sheet of material.

1449
01:26:58,723 --> 01:27:03,383
A cylinder of this
material is taken.

1450
01:27:04,695 --> 01:27:07,283
This is machined

1451
01:27:08,043 --> 01:27:11,978
into a cone. So this is...

1452
01:27:12,012 --> 01:27:15,671
The outer part is shaved off using
a lathe or something like that,

1453
01:27:15,706 --> 01:27:18,847
until you have a
three-dimensional cone.

1454
01:27:20,055 --> 01:27:21,505
Once you have the cone...

1455
01:27:25,198 --> 01:27:26,441
it's sliced...

1456
01:27:29,133 --> 01:27:30,237
like this.

1457
01:27:32,170 --> 01:27:35,967
And these slices become that.

1458
01:27:36,002 --> 01:27:40,006
Now, even this
starting piece,

1459
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:43,561
the solid cylinder,
is not even a solid cylinder.

1460
01:27:43,596 --> 01:27:48,497
It consists of many discs
stacked up.

1461
01:27:50,913 --> 01:27:53,502
And these are fused together
to produce that.

1462
01:27:53,537 --> 01:27:57,955
And all of these steps are necessary
to produce a successful triangle

1463
01:27:57,989 --> 01:28:01,579
that makes fuel. So, actually,
you know, if you were

1464
01:28:01,614 --> 01:28:05,445
to look at how this came to
be, this would actually be

1465
01:28:05,480 --> 01:28:10,864
pieces of all these discs that
were cut at unusual angles.

1466
01:28:12,970 --> 01:28:15,317
Now, apparently,
if you don't do all this,

1467
01:28:15,351 --> 01:28:17,008
that doesn't work.

1468
01:28:18,562 --> 01:28:21,150
Unfortunately, that's the
extent of my knowledge on this.

1469
01:28:21,185 --> 01:28:24,740
This makes no sense anywhere.

1470
01:28:24,775 --> 01:28:28,503
But, that's what it takes
for it to operate.

1471
01:28:28,537 --> 01:28:31,506
Now, with the alien technology
that was present in the craft,

1472
01:28:32,645 --> 01:28:35,475
it takes that basis,

1473
01:28:35,510 --> 01:28:39,375
that extra gravitational
energy in a small reactor

1474
01:28:40,376 --> 01:28:44,588
amplifies it through the
equipment there,

1475
01:28:45,899 --> 01:28:48,833
directs it through
the wave guides and archways

1476
01:28:48,868 --> 01:28:50,386
into the emitters

1477
01:28:51,318 --> 01:28:54,563
and allows it to
propel the craft

1478
01:28:54,598 --> 01:28:58,947
and manipulate the gravity wave
for whatever use they want.

1479
01:29:03,607 --> 01:29:06,471
How can this be true?
I don't believe a word of this.

1480
01:29:06,506 --> 01:29:08,715
But you expect people
to believe this?

1481
01:29:08,750 --> 01:29:11,822
No, I'm not going to change anyone's mind.
That's not my intention.

1482
01:29:11,856 --> 01:29:16,102
I'm just relaying the experience,
the job that I went through.

1483
01:29:17,137 --> 01:29:19,588
It is a fantastic thing.
It's a fantastic story.

1484
01:29:19,623 --> 01:29:20,865
But it's true?

1485
01:29:20,900 --> 01:29:23,558
It's true. These crafts
came from another...

1486
01:29:23,592 --> 01:29:26,733
Not just another planet,
another solar system entirely.

1487
01:29:26,768 --> 01:29:28,839
Extremely far away.

1488
01:29:28,873 --> 01:29:30,392
And they're here.

1489
01:29:40,540 --> 01:29:44,302
I mean, I've been making
fireworks since I was 12.

1490
01:29:44,337 --> 01:29:47,512
And professional fireworks
for at least 20 years.

1491
01:29:47,547 --> 01:29:52,414
Fireworks aren't just fun, they're
artistic. It's like painting the sky.

1492
01:29:52,448 --> 01:29:57,246
Controlling a large amount of
energy has always been impressive.

1493
01:29:57,281 --> 01:29:59,110
SinceThe New
York Times story broke,

1494
01:29:59,145 --> 01:30:03,494
since Lou Elizondo came forward,
sending those videos, went public,

1495
01:30:03,528 --> 01:30:07,671
the world is now talking about
UFOs in a more serious vein.

1496
01:30:07,705 --> 01:30:10,708
I think that's a good thing and
I think it reflects positively

1497
01:30:10,743 --> 01:30:12,503
on Bob Lazar's story.

1498
01:30:12,537 --> 01:30:15,679
And I hope that the world
will take another look at it.

1499
01:30:17,370 --> 01:30:20,718
That's the jet
bike, the jet car...

1500
01:30:20,753 --> 01:30:23,479
Yeah, to take, you know,
a large amount of energy

1501
01:30:23,514 --> 01:30:26,413
which would normally be
thought to be out of control,

1502
01:30:26,448 --> 01:30:30,210
to take that and harness it
and have it do what you want

1503
01:30:30,245 --> 01:30:32,385
has always been
impressive to me.

1504
01:30:32,419 --> 01:30:36,527
The easy way out is to say,
"He's a liar, he's making it up."

1505
01:30:36,561 --> 01:30:39,668
It's hard to go ahead
and accept the possibility

1506
01:30:39,703 --> 01:30:41,705
that he's telling the truth.

1507
01:30:41,739 --> 01:30:44,604
But if I did not believe it,

1508
01:30:44,639 --> 01:30:47,987
if I thought for a moment
that he was lying about it,

1509
01:30:48,021 --> 01:30:49,367
I'd be done with it.

1510
01:30:49,402 --> 01:30:51,991
I wouldn't still be
supporting it 30 years later.

1511
01:30:53,061 --> 01:30:55,580
Your life has
been under a microscope.

1512
01:30:55,615 --> 01:30:59,170
Every word you said for 30 years
recorded has been under a microscope,

1513
01:30:59,205 --> 01:31:01,034
and that's affected you.

1514
01:31:01,069 --> 01:31:02,726
Yeah, of course it has.
It would affect anybody.

1515
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,142
How has it affected you?

1516
01:31:05,176 --> 01:31:07,144
In the way I talk
and how much I do.

1517
01:31:07,178 --> 01:31:11,596
I'd rather not, you know, in a public
forum, I'd rather just not say anything.

1518
01:31:11,631 --> 01:31:13,702
Why do you think
people are so obsessed

1519
01:31:13,737 --> 01:31:18,431
with every word that you say
about your experiences?

1520
01:31:18,465 --> 01:31:22,677
They're just looking for a way
to look for an inaccuracy

1521
01:31:22,711 --> 01:31:24,886
and to be able
to discount the whole thing.

1522
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:28,337
"Oh, he said this one time, and said
it slightly different this time.

1523
01:31:28,372 --> 01:31:29,960
You know, obviously,
he's making it up."

1524
01:31:29,994 --> 01:31:32,963
You know, that's just the first
word that entered my mind.

1525
01:31:32,997 --> 01:31:36,691
You know, I don't put that much
thought into what I'm saying.

1526
01:31:40,004 --> 01:31:43,732
Look, as much as
a lot of people hate it,

1527
01:31:43,767 --> 01:31:45,700
this stuff really happened.

1528
01:31:45,734 --> 01:31:48,806
I mean, if it bothers you,
that's too bad.

1529
01:31:48,841 --> 01:31:51,740
I think that's just hard
for people to accept. I mean, so--

1530
01:31:51,775 --> 01:31:54,709
Yeah, it would be, right...
I fully understand.

1531
01:31:54,743 --> 01:31:56,089
I would feel the same way.

1532
01:31:56,124 --> 01:31:58,091
I'm not sure
I would believe my story.

1533
01:31:58,126 --> 01:32:00,507
"Boy, there's not enough
evidence," you know,

1534
01:32:01,301 --> 01:32:02,924
but I couldn't
discount it either.

1535
01:32:02,958 --> 01:32:06,686
The fact is, the people that
know him best believe him the most.

1536
01:32:06,721 --> 01:32:12,002
I hope that one thing that comes
across in your film is the real Bob.

1537
01:32:12,036 --> 01:32:16,800
Once you get to know him, it becomes
much more plausible as a story.

1538
01:32:16,834 --> 01:32:21,218
He's not lying to his mom and
his wife and all his friends.

1539
01:32:21,252 --> 01:32:23,807
He's not lying to the UFO
world either.

1540
01:32:23,841 --> 01:32:26,188
You saw alien ships? Yeah.

1541
01:32:26,223 --> 01:32:28,950
You worked on a gravity wave
amplification system,

1542
01:32:28,984 --> 01:32:30,123
trying to figure it out?

1543
01:32:30,158 --> 01:32:32,229
Right, a propulsion system
and a power source

1544
01:32:32,263 --> 01:32:34,645
that's completely
unknown to mankind.

1545
01:32:34,679 --> 01:32:36,716
And there's no way human
beings could have made it?

1546
01:32:36,751 --> 01:32:38,545
There is no way human
beings could have made it,

1547
01:32:38,580 --> 01:32:42,757
under any circumstances in any
country anywhere. Period.

1548
01:32:42,791 --> 01:32:45,725
And for 30 years, you are
telling us the truth?

1549
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:47,002
You bet.

1550
01:32:47,037 --> 01:32:49,108
This shit happened? You got it.

1551
01:32:49,142 --> 01:32:53,319
You know, the fact is that that
raid that happened back in Michigan,

1552
01:32:53,353 --> 01:32:56,563
that's a very dramatic and a
very important development.

1553
01:32:56,598 --> 01:32:58,565
They weren't there
looking for records

1554
01:32:58,600 --> 01:33:01,465
about some customer
he had a couple of years ago,

1555
01:33:01,499 --> 01:33:03,778
they were looking for 115.

1556
01:33:03,812 --> 01:33:07,160
When you bring two dozen
agents and investigators

1557
01:33:07,195 --> 01:33:09,922
and crime lab analysts,

1558
01:33:09,956 --> 01:33:14,029
you can bring people to duplicate the
whole computer and all that stuff,

1559
01:33:14,064 --> 01:33:16,549
they're looking
for something else.

1560
01:33:16,583 --> 01:33:20,449
They're sure as hell are not
looking for a minor receipt.

1561
01:33:21,726 --> 01:33:25,247
People may not believe that 115
is real, but somebody does,

1562
01:33:25,282 --> 01:33:27,422
'cause that's what they
came to look for.

1563
01:33:27,456 --> 01:33:31,771
You know, if you want to cross it off
and you don't want to believe it, fine.

1564
01:33:31,806 --> 01:33:34,256
I don't care anymore whether
people believe it or not.

1565
01:33:34,291 --> 01:33:35,913
But Bob's telling the truth.

1566
01:33:35,948 --> 01:33:39,606
And once you realize that, it
changes everything for you.

1567
01:33:40,538 --> 01:33:42,195
It changed everything for me.

1568
01:33:48,477 --> 01:33:51,515
To crack a life
open at its seams,

1569
01:33:51,549 --> 01:33:55,277
to dissect and examine its
contents is unnerving.

1570
01:33:55,312 --> 01:33:58,315
Like the reading of omens
by viewing the entrails.

1571
01:34:00,869 --> 01:34:02,664
We all tell our own stories.

1572
01:34:03,596 --> 01:34:06,012
And sometimes we
even believe them.

1573
01:34:06,047 --> 01:34:07,462
And sometimes,

1574
01:34:08,497 --> 01:34:10,637
we tell them one last time.

1575
01:34:12,329 --> 01:34:15,815
If you don't believe it,
that's your problem.

1576
01:34:17,679 --> 01:34:20,544
What you do with
that is up to you.

1577
01:34:27,931 --> 01:34:30,899
Well, I am telling the truth.

1578
01:34:30,934 --> 01:34:34,869
I've tried to prove that.
What's going on up there

1579
01:34:34,903 --> 01:34:37,872
could be the most important
event in history.

1580
01:34:37,906 --> 01:34:42,635
You're talking about contact,
physical contact

1581
01:34:42,669 --> 01:34:47,467
and proof from another system, another
planet, another intelligence.

1582
01:34:47,502 --> 01:34:50,712
That's got to be the biggest
event in history. Period.

1583
01:34:50,746 --> 01:34:54,129
And it's real.
It's real and it's there.

1584
01:34:54,164 --> 01:34:57,788
And I had an extremely
small part in it,

1585
01:34:57,822 --> 01:35:00,929
but I'm convinced that what I
saw is absolute proof of that.

1586
01:35:00,964 --> 01:35:03,794
There is no way we could have
created those systems.

1587
01:35:03,828 --> 01:35:06,348
There's no way we could have made
the discs, the power supplies,

1588
01:35:06,383 --> 01:35:07,832
anything to go with it.

1589
01:35:09,282 --> 01:35:13,286
Lazar says he has no intention of
going on any UFO lecture circuit.

1590
01:35:13,321 --> 01:35:15,702
He's not looking to do
any additional interviews.

1591
01:35:15,737 --> 01:35:17,912
In fact, he wasn't too crazy
about doing this one.

1592
01:35:17,946 --> 01:35:20,362
He did it after certain
unfavorable things

1593
01:35:20,397 --> 01:35:21,950
started happening
in his life.

1594
01:35:21,985 --> 01:35:24,608
And he did it because he feels
that whoever is running the show

1595
01:35:24,642 --> 01:35:28,094
up at S4 is perpetrating a
fraud on the American people

1596
01:35:28,129 --> 01:35:29,889
and on the
scientific community.

1597
01:35:29,924 --> 01:35:32,478
We intend to have much
more about this story,

1598
01:35:32,512 --> 01:35:35,136
about the operation up there
on Monday and beyond.

1599
01:35:35,170 --> 01:35:37,724
This is by no means the end
of this series of reports.

1600
01:35:37,759 --> 01:35:40,141
In fact, on Monday,
including in our story there,

1601
01:35:40,175 --> 01:35:44,248
supporting testimony from other
people who say they have knowledge

1602
01:35:44,283 --> 01:35:45,940
of the flying discs
at the test site

1603
01:35:45,974 --> 01:35:49,219
and information from people
who know Lazar very well

1604
01:35:49,253 --> 01:35:50,599
and insist
his story is true.

1605
01:35:50,634 --> 01:35:52,739
Even if they have
these flying saucers, George,

1606
01:35:52,774 --> 01:35:55,225
it seems like it would be really
hard to keep it so secret.

1607
01:35:55,259 --> 01:35:57,468
Well, yeah, it would
seem that way.

1608
01:35:57,503 --> 01:36:00,023
Except for as Lazar
asked his superiors up there,

1609
01:36:00,057 --> 01:36:02,094
and they say it's the easiest
secret in the world to keep.

1610
01:36:02,128 --> 01:36:05,752
It's leaked out many times
before and nobody believes it.

1611
01:36:05,787 --> 01:36:07,962
But what's the Navy saying
about all of this?

1612
01:36:07,996 --> 01:36:10,654
Well, of course, the Navy is
supposed to have been his employer,

1613
01:36:10,688 --> 01:36:13,760
and we have... some fairly
pointed questions to them.

1614
01:36:13,795 --> 01:36:16,315
Of course, number one,
it may not be the Navy at all.

1615
01:36:16,349 --> 01:36:18,489
Information is so
compartmentalized up there,

1616
01:36:18,524 --> 01:36:20,629
no one is exactly sure
who is in charge.

1617
01:36:20,664 --> 01:36:23,667
We have put the questions
to several Navy departments,

1618
01:36:23,701 --> 01:36:26,325
the answers, thus far,
have been unsatisfactory.

1619
01:36:26,359 --> 01:36:29,914
We've applied for more information
through the Freedom of Information Act.

1620
01:36:29,949 --> 01:36:32,676
And that information will be
revealed on Monday as well.

1621
01:36:32,710 --> 01:36:34,505
You believe his story,
don't you?

1622
01:36:34,540 --> 01:36:38,199
Yeah, I do. Yeah, I got to know him pretty
well over the last couple of months,

1623
01:36:38,233 --> 01:36:41,064
and I believe he's
telling the truth.

1624
01:36:41,098 --> 01:36:43,342
Fascinating stuff. Thanks, George.