SMB3 vs. SMW (not really)

So there was a discussion about preference in SMB3 and SMW. This is a fairly common discussion that happens here and there, given that they are 2 of the most loved 2D platformers of all time, and both have excellent speedrunning communities. SMW's is much, MUCH larger than SMB3's however, which is something that always puzzled me. So as I was stuck in a car wash for over an hour today I debated with myself perhaps some of the reasons SMB3 doesn't have the size SMW has, as well as a few misconceptions I think both sides have.

Note that I have spent DAYS playing SMB3, and while I might get there someday, my time spent playing SMW as a speedrun dwarf in comparison, so any comparisons I may have will likely skew toward SMB3, but I'll try to be as unbiased as I can. Let's start off with a few reasons I think SMB3 has a much smaller community than SMW.

1: SMW has a smoother category curve and better intro category.

I think right off the bat this is the biggest reason SMW has a much larger community. (#2 being a very close second, but we'll talk about that) Even though a lot of the "serious" runners don't really enjoy 11-Exit, one can't deny that 11-Exit is a much better "taste" of what SMW is as a speedgame compared to noWW or any%. Any% is just pretty much a thing all on its own, every other category out there skips the bulk of it. NoWW only really showcases some of the worst parts of SMB3 speedrunning, autoscrollers and hand luck. I see a lot of people learn one of these categories and then say "Eh, I didn't enjoy it all that much" and I get sad because they end up missing all of the fun of the game. The extra commitment to Warpless, a much more intensive category just doesn't seem worth it to most of those people. Meanwhile, there's a very smooth and interesting curve between 11-Exit, NSW or AC, and then 96 for people getting into SMW. Toss in the no-cape and other restricting categories, and there's a lot to choose from.

2: SMW has the stronger community.

Now I know what you're going to say, "Hey Glib, you're using your own argument as a reason to support your argument, which is bad and dumb." It kind of is, but there's a big truth to the fact that having a strong community is a reason people will want to join it, which makes it even stronger. This isn't saying SMB3 has a BAD community. Far from it. SMB3 is one of the nicest, most encouraging communities I've been a part of. But we're a bit less talkative than most. In fact, before the Discord server and the tournament last year, we hardly talked at all. (yes, I'm taking all the credit for bolstering the SMB3 community :P) SMW has been a strong, supportive community with events happening constantly, so it makes sense that people are more exposed to it and therefore more interested in joining.

3: SMW is an easier game to learn.

OK, BEFORE EVERYBODY GETS MAD I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS MORE LATER I JUST WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT I FEEL SMW HAS AN EASIER SKILL FLOOR AND THEREFORE IS MORE ENTICING FOR PEOPLE LOOKING TO GET INTO SPEEDRUNNING OK, OK. This sort of ties into the first point, but just the fact that it's easier to pick up and get to that first moment of "I'm going fast." makes it a bigger draw than SMB3. I think another strong thing going for SMW is the practice cart. For a long time, it was much easier to just sit down and practice out a strat or two in SMW than it was SMB3, which adds to the lowered barrier to entry that SMW has. SMB3 does have a practice ROM now, which is a godsend honestly, so maybe this will help entice people to try it out.

Alright, that's about all I wanted to say about reasons I think the communities have such differing sizes despite both being such well made and popular games. I'd like to take a little time to discuss a few misconceptions people have about both games.

1: SMW is easy.

This is a MASSIVE generalization, I don't think anybody has unironically just flat out said it. But there's multiple other arguments that in the end kind of all boil down to this. Over the last month or so, I've spent about a dozen hours learning strats for 96 exit, with hopefully hundreds more along the way. A smaller sample size than a LOT of people out there, but I feel like I can at least say that there are strats in SMW that are incredibly technical and difficult to execute. Perhaps with time some of these will come easier, but SMW isn't a game you can just sit down and suddenly you're highly competitive, it takes tons of hours of practice, just like any other speedgame out there worth running. Awesome Flower is still free tho :P

2: SMB3 is hard.

Ok, so this might be the strongest bias I'll show, but I think so many people think that SMB3 is this game that's just nigh impossible unless you're a gaming god. I will concede that the P-speed mechanic in SMB3 has some very interesting quirks, but after spending maybe an hour total of just messing around with the physics and figuring out different things I can and can't do, a lot of that mystique or awkwardness went away, and even though there are some strats I can't do, I understand the reasons why I can't as opposed to just having no clue. It's something I always suggest to new runners, just playing with the physics for a bit to just understand them, it helps with learning and with making slight adjustments if necessary. Anyways, rant over, SMB3 is a lot.

There's one big take-away that I want people to understand from these 2 misconceptions. I think that while the skill floor (aka how good you have to get to be solid at the game) for SMW is lower, the skill ceiling (aka how good you have to get in order to be a TOP contender) is just as high, if not even a little higher than SMB3. This is said with a large difference in time spent with both games, but I've personally found that both the easiest stuff and the hardest stuff of the two games is located in SMW. Ok, one other thing that bother REALLY bothers me.

3: The RNG in SMB3 kills the speedrun (Warpless).

Alright, this just might have to do with my view on speedrunning in general, but man does it make me sad when people don't give SMB3 a shot because they think the RNG makes in impossible to get a good time. First of all, play 100% the RNG is less of a burden. :P But seriously, all of the really good players have time and time again got 53:XX in races/marathons with TERRIBLE luck. 52 is possible with even slightly marginal luck. My point is, if you want to get a really good time, it's so much more on your own execution as a player than it is the game. My PB is a 54 with some pretty terrible luck and only OK execution, so even getting a reasonable time isn't something you have to get insanely lucky for.

Ok, I'm just rambling at this point. I should sleep. But hey, SMB3 and SMW are cool speedgames and if you like one, you probably won't hate the other (not that I think anybody REALLY does). I think both communities might have slight misconceptions about the other, but honestly both games have some awesome runs and even better runners, so appreciate both of them for what they do.

<3 Glib


























P.S. Please play SMB3 for the love of h*ck it's such a good speedgame and almost nobody wants to play it :(