mega yikes

FirstChoir> Heyo
4:58 AM
<•Wildbow> Hi Firstch
4:58 AM
<FirstChoir> Haha! Everytime I'm online here I'm still laugh about you not beeing Wildsnor
4:58 AM *laughing
5:00 AM Everyone's fine here? : )
5:00 AM
<•Wildbow> Not being wildsnor?
5:00 AM I think so.  Things are good, haven't heard of any holiday drama or nightmares
5:00 AM
<FirstChoir> Once you chanced your name to wildsnor when you are asleep
5:01 AM Haha sounds nice!
5:01 AM
<Ereus> hi bow
5:01 AM how are you?
5:01 AM im alive
5:01 AM
<FirstChoir> *when you were asleep
5:02 AM
<Rhet> Howdy y'all
5:02 AM
<Sage2> My cat threw up and I got locked out of my house taking out the trash
5:02 AM But other than that it's been great
5:02 AM <•OverThal> Hey Rhet
5:02 AM
<DoubleFried> only 4 hours until 2019 here
5:02 AM i hope its gonna be a good one
5:02 AM
<Rhet> Sup thal
5:03 AM
<FirstChoir> I lost my walled to day for the first time in my life. So... who wins the 'most shitty day'-contest @Sage2
5:03 AM
<•Wildbow> 2018 set a fairly low bar
5:03 AM <•OverThal> Not much, how are you?
5:03 AM
<Sage2> That's rough, Choir\
5:03 AM
<FirstChoir> I'm sorry to hear that @ WB.
5:03 AM
<•Wildbow> Not for me, just in general
5:03 AM
<DoubleFried> there's been better years for sure
5:04 AM
<FirstChoir> Wish I'd be a clairvoyant right now or something so I coudl detect where it ended up.
5:04 AM
<DoubleFried> started out some on some personal goals though myself, and if i continue those it'll be great
5:05 AM
<FirstChoir> I even searched behind my freezer and the only thing I discovered was the dirt of like 7 years. :S
5:05 AM
<DoubleFried> glgl FirstChoir
5:05 AM
<FirstChoir> Glad to hear @ WB.
5:05 AM Or at least glad to hear that it wasn't for you.
5:06 AM
<DoubleFried> i lost my wallet myself a few weeks ago but i got lucky and hadnt even realized it yet when i got an email i could come pick it up at my uni's service desk
5:06 AM
<FirstChoir> Oh... but in the time between, where did you get your money from?
5:07 AM <FaustAndAbout> Savings I assume
5:07 AM
<DoubleFried> i didnt
5:07 AM
<FirstChoir> Because I have everything in my wallet.... so my money-card is also gone. And all my money was in it :S
5:07 AM I just realized it because I wanted to buy cigarettes.
5:07 AM
<DoubleFried> i lost it in the morning, got the email at noon, so i cycled back and picked it up
5:07 AM
<FirstChoir> At least I had some.... totally weird stuff.
5:07 AM I have... something of a kiss/kill-stuff going on.
5:08 AM <FaustAndAbout> It's a wise idea to save up for at least a months worth of no income. Also don't you have your card number written down somewhere?
5:08 AM
<FirstChoir> A guy which is in my age (26)... 3 years ago I met him when he was living on the streets. He has several psycholigcal problems and... I ... helped him and nowadays he has a job and stuff. But he is really focused on my like kiss/kill.
5:08 AM
<Rhet> Mine in my phone
5:09 AM Samsung wallet
5:09 AM *mine's
5:09 AM
<FirstChoir> However - he tends to come to my city and put gifts in my letterbox. There was a box full of cigarettes in it. I'm fine with that : D
5:09 AM <FaustAndAbout> You could probably get some help in #relationships
5:10 AM ⇐ Fulvus quit (uid282867@192.184.10.9) Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
5:10 AM
<FirstChoir> I don't have a problem with it. I just mentioned it because it's so funny. Like we were cluster-capes.
5:10 AM Or is that spoiler for wards?
5:11 AM but @faustandabout it's not that I want to discuss problems. I just mentioned somethign really funny xD
5:11 AM <FaustAndAbout> Oh.
5:11 AM
<•Wildbow> Glow-worm stuff is ok for main chat, I think.
5:11 AM But hard line to draw when getting deeper into it
5:12 AM Wellwick → •Firewick
5:13 AM
<Ereus> >

    bow doesnt even acknowledge your existence

5:15 AM
<•Firewick> I acknowledge you Reus
5:15 AM <FaustAndAbout> Who?
5:15 AM
<Ereus> someone
5:15 AM
<•Firewick> Can't you see them Faust? Am I haunted?
5:16 AM <FaustAndAbout> Yes
5:16 AM
<Roarian> evening folks
5:16 AM
<Rhet> Howdy
5:16 AM
<DoubleFried> eeevening
5:17 AM
<•Firewick> Hey scary lion
5:17 AM
<DoubleFried> just got back a passing grade for an exam i performed poorly on
5:17 AM nice way to close out the year \o/
5:17 AM
<•Firewick> Nice work Double
5:24 AM
<FirstChoir> hey as long as you don't pull a bakuda it's fine ; P
5:24 AM what was the topic of the exam?
5:26 AM
<DoubleFried> analysis of the IPCC report
5:27 AM on a somewhat basic level
5:27 AM
<FirstChoir> hmmm....
5:27 AM yup i'm totally out.
5:27 AM What is the IPCC report?
5:29 AM And hey, I don't know where you are from: But there were also like 1, 2 tests i fucked up during my bachelor and master - stuff. Still I ended well. Dooing poorly on one test isn't such a big thing.
5:29 AM And today is the last day of the year: Anything I can do to make you happy? : )
5:30 AM
<DoubleFried> its a big periodical report on climate change
5:31 AM
<Doc_Mod> hey gang
5:31 AM o/
5:31 AM
<DoubleFried> i know doing poorly isnt the worst thing, i just was really hoping id scraped by enough to not have to retake the exam :P
5:31 AM hiya doc
5:31 AM \o
5:32 AM
<Doc_Mod> Oh dear. An exam. Good Luck on try #2
5:32 AM
<DoubleFried> no no
5:32 AM i was sharing the good news id managed to get a passing grade \o/
5:32 AM barely, but thats good enough!
5:32 AM
<Doc_Mod> oh!
5:32 AM :O
5:33 AM
— Doc_Mod waggles his arms in the air like he just does not care
5:33 AM
<DoubleFried> waggle waggle waggle
5:33 AM
<FirstChoir> Hey @Doublefried I root for you that it's just nut barely getting by but doing realy well in the test. Until one gets the results you never know ; P
5:34 AM
<DoubleFried> i did get the results :P
5:34 AM
<FirstChoir> and if you keep and waggling you remind me on sveta xD
5:34 AM
<DoubleFried> and it was barely enough
5:34 AM next time i'll do better and put in more effort
5:34 AM
<FirstChoir> How often can you do the same test?
5:34 AM
<DoubleFried> happy new year btw doc
5:35 AM
<FirstChoir> Doc is already in the new year?
5:35 AM Happy new year from me, also! : D
5:35 AM
<DoubleFried> nah but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
5:35 AM
<FirstChoir> Wish I'd be some great artist. Because I'd draw some stuff where all the pyrokinetic guys from worm/ward would light some huge ass firework stuff
5:36 AM
<DoubleFried> heh thatd be pretty sweet
5:36 AM
<FirstChoir> And it would even spell something out like 'FERAL BOARA ARE AWESOME' : D
5:36 AM *BOARS
5:36 AM although burnscar might be a little bit of bitter after the grue-siberian-coppycat-treatment
5:37 AM Btw am I the only one who thinks that burnscar is underrated?
5:38 AM
<DoubleFried> i mostly feel she's kind of tragic
5:38 AM
<FirstChoir> I really love to re-read her interlude and she fucking single-handly fucked up Faultline's crew. Girl is mighty.
5:38 AM She is...
5:39 AM
<DoubleFried> and yeh she kicked some serious butt
5:39 AM
<FirstChoir> Especially where she tell's Elle how she... just burned the guy who wanted to whore her out but then went into killing him. All the time she was so alone and that slice of life during imp's interlude was propably  the most nice human interactiom she got. Especially since Elle faked everything.
5:40 AM Also she is so badass on the same time. She is kind of broken but still she can hold herself together so much like making fun about jack's rules.
5:40 AM
<•Mishie> k
5:40 AM
<FirstChoir> Like when she tells skitter 'I wont tell if you don't'
5:41 AM (sorry, i like tragic people)
5:44 AM For all the people reading here: What would you do if you hear that the S9 are in town?
5:46 AM
<•Mishie> That I should call security to say that a mental health ward patient has escaped
5:46 AM <SugarIcing> First thought - get into the first train away from the city
5:46 AM
<hex> well there goes the neighborhood
5:47 AM <SugarIcing> second thought - too dangerous, I should call my dad and tell him to pick me up with his car as he's running away
5:49 AM
<DoubleFried> getting the first train out of town sounds like an excellent idea
5:50 AM <SugarIcing> I think the chance of them attacking a train is much higher than a car.
5:52 AM
<DoubleFried> i dont have a car and there's lots of trains
5:52 AM :P
5:53 AM <SugarIcing> Then yeah. Good idea.
5:53 AM :)
6:01 AM
<•Firewick> Go find Jack and sign up to my true calling
6:12 AM → Nadaesque joined (nada@net-n0m.bbu.133.75.IP)
6:12 AM
<FirstChoir> Well if I would be just doing stuff in my town and suddleny jack would be there...
6:12 AM I'd invite him to some tee or coffee.
6:13 AM Because... I'd be dead anyways but I guess he is a very interesting person to have coffee with.
6:13 AM
<Nadaesque> "So, I hear you have traveled the world, met and killed a lot of people.  What's that like?
6:13 AM
<FirstChoir> Exactly!
6:14 AM ALso : "You will kill me anyways, at least tell me that stuff im curious about."
6:14 AM
<Nadaesque> He seems to have this ... it isn't quite oppositional defiant disorder, but he (unsurprisingly) cannot take anything at face value.
6:14 AM
<FirstChoir> Because I think it's extremly funny to have some coffee with him. I'd even pay it.
6:14 AM
<•Mishie> yikes
6:15 AM
<Nadaesque> What you need is a list of questions.  "Favorite 'retired' member of the S9?"
6:15 AM
<FirstChoir> how do you mean that?
6:15 AM right!
6:15 AM
<Nadaesque> "Tell me about 'the one who got away.'  Everyone has one."
6:15 AM
<FirstChoir> or when it's a bar and now coffee shop i'd say: Show me your dick
6:16 AM and since he'd kill me anyways I would be at least the first person who would asked him such a question : D
6:17 AM
<Nadaesque> "Hero you'd most like to recruit!"
6:17 AM
<FirstChoir> Recruit? Rather brake down...
6:17 AM
<Nadaesque> Shhhh.  Recruit.
6:17 AM
<FirstChoir> Already thinking like one of them
6:17 AM
<Nadaesque> "Sooner or later you'll retire, one way or another.  What would you like your legacy to be?"
6:18 AM
<FirstChoir> "Making a picture of jack's dick while he was peeing and getting it all over the internet"
6:19 AM → waxpapers joined (uid299478@stonehaven.irccloud.com)
6:19 AM
<FirstChoir> But I'm still so interest in the dynamic between him and the rest of the nine
6:19 AM
<•Mishie> double yikes
6:19 AM I honestly just find it adorable that people think that they'd survive long enough to even get a word out tbh
6:19 AM
<FirstChoir> I mean... I really can't imagine how he interacted with someone like Winter
6:20 AM Hey... I don't think that tbh
6:20 AM
<Nadaesque> Mishie: He does seem to like to get someone talking, if only as an excuse to monologue.
6:20 AM
<•Mishie> Yeah but y'know
6:20 AM
<FirstChoir> On earth beth I'd be slayed down in secounds. Especially because I'd come across as goofy and he doesn't like that propapbly
6:20 AM
<•Mishie> How should I put it
6:21 AM He doesn't seem to have any problem with slaughtering small children
6:21 AM
<FirstChoir> He would cut me down like behemoth did with regent or noelle acted after he asked her some goofy shit about cloning him.
6:21 AM Im 26.
6:21 AM I'm not a small children : O
6:22 AM
<Nadaesque> You could be.
6:22 AM
<FirstChoir> thank you very much
6:22 AM
<•Mishie> Yeah so acting like one is just going to annoy him instead of be amusing
6:22 AM awks
6:22 AM
<FirstChoir> Yeah depening
6:22 AM He is so special.
6:23 AM If you are amusing in a way which entertains him you get 5 more minutes to life
6:23 AM propably
6:23 AM
<•Mishie> So the plan is to barrage him with random questions and to try to get a dick pic?\
6:23 AM Bold
6:23 AM ⇐ FirstChoir quit (FirstChoir@net-2097cf.dyn.telefonica.de) Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client
6:24 AM
<Nadaesque> "My Very Last Blog Post: A Special Interview with Jack Slash."
6:24 AM → FirstChoir joined (FirstChoir@net-2097cf.dyn.telefonica.de)
6:25 AM
<FirstChoir> yeah propably
6:25 AM I mean... imagine beeing a mere mortal person w/o any persons and coming across Jack slash...
6:25 AM
— •Mishie shrugs
6:25 AM
<FirstChoir> The onle thing you can do is beeing extraordinary. Otherwise you are instantly dead.
6:25 AM
<Nadaesque> "So, you've got the wanderlust thing.  'Leave only footprints, take only memories,' only in your case it's 'bodies' and 'lives.'  Anything you miss about settling down?"
6:25 AM
<•Mishie> Honestly I never really found him to be all that interesting as a character
6:26 AM <•OverThal> He's more of a storm than a character
6:26 AM
<FirstChoir> @Mishie Why?
6:26 AM
<Rhet> We've talked about this before
6:26 AM
<•Mishie> Yeah
6:26 AM
<FirstChoir> but not with me
6:26 AM
<•Mishie> Like we literally had a massive conversation with you about it
6:26 AM
<Rhet> It was with you, actually
6:27 AM
<•Mishie> good times
6:27 AM
<FirstChoir> Oh....
6:27 AM Nah he still is interesting.
6:27 AM
<•Mishie> Do you really not remember it?
6:27 AM Okay, why.
6:27 AM <Spellspin> who're we shit talking
6:27 AM
<•Mishie> Jack Slash
6:27 AM <Spellspin> ew, gross
6:29 AM
<Nadaesque> FirstChoir: You could try for an interview with Bonesaw and Mannequin, just for a bonus round.  "Most tinkers have labs and a lot of equipment to go with it, you two have to travel light.  What's the improv life like, and what are your indispensable tools?"
6:29 AM
<DoubleFried> JackSlash in an alternate universe is a prolific fanfiction writer who focuses on Jack Frost slash fics with whomever they can think of
6:29 AM
<FirstChoir> One thing I really wonder about him is if he had friends.
6:29 AM
<DoubleFried> nah
6:29 AM
<FirstChoir> Like... did he really manipulate the rest of the 9? Or where there some people he considered asd friends...
6:29 AM
<Rhet> I mean that's pretty clear in the story
6:30 AM Even King wasn't his friend
6:30 AM
<•Mishie> Yeah he uh, made that pretty clear
6:30 AM
<Rhet> Er, Harbinger
6:30 AM
<DoubleFried> jack was fundamentally broken
6:30 AM
<FirstChoir> we don't even know all the members of the S9
6:31 AM and Bonesaw ones thought about him as a daddy because he got old
6:31 AM
<Rhet> We don't have to
6:31 AM We have a pretty clear image of his personality
6:31 AM
— •Mishie squints
6:31 AM
<FirstChoir> I  just have a hard time to think he was a master mind for his whole life w/o a true friend :S
6:31 AM pooer jack : (
6:31 AM
<Rhet> Bonesaw was a child he kidnapped and tortured
6:31 AM
<•Mishie> Yeah pretty sure he died friendless and alone
6:31 AM unlucky
6:31 AM <•OverThal> Same.
6:31 AM
<•Mishie> But hey, at least he died as he lived!
6:32 AM
<Doc_Mod> Good Riddance to bad rubbish
6:32 AM
<FirstChoir> And she wasn't his friend but a protige
6:32 AM
<•Mishie> Pretty sure that she was a useful tool at best
6:32 AM
<FirstChoir> Poor jack!
6:32 AM
<Nadaesque> Mishie: Buried under tons of rock and dirt with nobody to talk to but himself?
6:32 AM
<•Mishie> yee
6:32 AM
<Rhet> You mean abuse victim
6:32 AM Not protege
6:32 AM → Ender joined (genji102@net-rloql9.ma.comcast.net)
6:32 AM
<FirstChoir> She talked about herself as his protige. I don't know if you can say 'abuse victim'
6:32 AM
<Nadaesque> You say potato ...
6:32 AM
<Rhet> Uh
6:32 AM
— •Mishie stares
6:32 AM
<•Mishie> Uhm
6:32 AM
<DoubleFried> you read her trigger event right?
6:32 AM <•OverThal> Stockholm syndrome is a thing
6:32 AM
<•Mishie> That's a uh
6:33 AM Fascinating opinion
6:33 AM
<Rhet> What part of torturing her parents to death in front of her
6:33 AM Isn't abuse
6:33 AM <•OverThal> Rhet: they gave her an early bed time
6:33 AM
<DoubleFried> tbf who hasnt done that to their friends
6:33 AM
<FirstChoir> Expecting the trigger event... well, the rest of the nine cared much about her, she felt like they were here family and jack didn't outright abuse here
6:33 AM
<Rhet> Except where he threatened to kill her
6:33 AM
<•Mishie> Uhm
6:33 AM
<Rhet> And her trigger event
6:33 AM
<•Mishie> buddy
6:33 AM Pal
6:33 AM
<FirstChoir> he.. taught here the stuff he was into. It's such a fucked up special case. it's not abuse in the sense we know.
6:33 AM
<•Mishie> frond
6:33 AM
<Nadaesque> Buhbie
6:34 AM
<•Mishie> That's literally abuse
6:34 AM <•OverThal> Rhet: and the forcing her to act exactly like he wanted?
6:34 AM
<Rhet> Yep
6:34 AM
<•Mishie> That is in fact literally what abuse is
6:34 AM
<FirstChoir> I don't wont to offend anyone here - sorry if i did.
6:34 AM
<•Mishie> Abuse isn't just physical
6:34 AM
<Rhet> We're not offended
6:34 AM
<FirstChoir> But she didn't suffer under him.
6:34 AM
<Rhet> We're just in disbelief
6:34 AM lol what
6:34 AM
<•Mishie> Amazing
6:34 AM
<FirstChoir> Abuse is just such a critical theme
6:34 AM
<Rhet> Did you read the same story
6:34 AM
<FirstChoir> I did.
6:34 AM
<DoubleFried> wow
6:35 AM
<FirstChoir> Okay, may I ask to understand it?
6:35 AM
<•Mishie> What a fascinating opinion
6:35 AM
<Rhet> Yes
6:35 AM
<FirstChoir> Where actually did she suffer?
6:35 AM
<Rhet> When he tortured her parents to death in front of her
6:35 AM
<DoubleFried> how about her trigger event
6:35 AM <•OverThal> Notice how different she acted the /second/ he wasn't around?
6:35 AM
<FirstChoir> The trigger event - absoletly!
6:35 AM
<Rhet> When he threatened to kill her if she didn't act exactly the way he wanted
6:35 AM <•OverThal> Like how she was a totally different person?
6:35 AM
<FirstChoir> But aferwards...
6:36 AM
<Nadaesque> Well there's the whole "family killed in front of her and she kept trying to save them and couldn't because the rest of the nine kept taking chunks out of them" as a starter.
6:36 AM
<•Mishie> And then y'know
6:36 AM
<Rhet> When she was scared for her life afrer the Contessa thing
6:36 AM
<•Mishie> All the conditioning that came after that
6:36 AM
<DoubleFried> and then jack made her disavow her parents because she couldnt keep saving them
6:36 AM
<Rhet> Aren't you a neurobiologist
6:36 AM
<FirstChoir> Jack took her as 'protige', he made her see every living beeing as a playground. It's fucked up, but only from the outside
6:36 AM <•OverThal> She clearly didn't want that job.
6:36 AM <FaustAndAbout> He murdered her family :|
6:37 AM
<Rhet> Abuse seems normal to the victim
6:37 AM
<•Mishie> til that abusing kids until they want to torture and murder others isn't abuse
6:37 AM
<FirstChoir> Until contessa waltzed in she didn't even mind that
6:37 AM
<•Mishie> What a world
6:37 AM <•OverThal> Mishie: at least my hobby is safe
6:37 AM
<•Mishie> She was literally forced to do increasingly fucked up shit until her mind broke
6:37 AM
<DoubleFried> im like going to take a walk
6:37 AM
<•Mishie> And she mentally distanced herself from it all to pretend that things were happy and okay.
6:37 AM
<FirstChoir> What I'm about is that she didn't had problems with what made her trigger. She wasn't rilley, she was 'bonesaw
6:37 AM
<•Mishie> Like
6:37 AM
<Rhet> If you're saying she didn't mind it because she didn't fight back
6:37 AM Then that's like textbook victim blaming
6:38 AM
<FirstChoir> And as bonesaw everything that was living was a huge playground
6:38 AM
<•Mishie> The way Bonesaw acted early on wasn't actually how normal children acted
6:38 AM
<Rhet> Because she abused into being that
6:38 AM
<•Mishie> That was how she told herself that she should act
6:38 AM
<Rhet> To save herself from Jack
6:38 AM <•OverThal> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
6:38 AM :thinking:
6:38 AM
<FirstChoir> it wasn't stockholm syndrom
6:38 AM
<•Mishie> Why
6:38 AM So you're saying
6:39 AM
<FirstChoir> rather more like kids who get abused as kids tend to abuse other kids when they are adult.
6:39 AM
<Rhet> Because it has to be abuse for it to be Stockholm syndrome /s
6:39 AM
<•Mishie> .
6:39 AM
<FirstChoir> I don't have the name for it, but that plays also into it.
6:39 AM
<•Mishie> So you're saying that it's abuse
6:39 AM anyway
6:39 AM
<FirstChoir> I'm just speaking from... not from the inside but how bonesaw felt.
6:39 AM It's fucked up.
6:39 AM But she didn't feel it.
6:39 AM
<Rhet> She did
6:39 AM She hid it
6:39 AM
<FirstChoir> Because of contessa.
6:39 AM
<•Mishie> Are you really saying that over time Riley didn't form a bond with Jack?
6:39 AM
<Rhet> Because Jack would kill her if she didnt
6:40 AM
<FirstChoir> @mishi you mean me?
6:40 AM
<Rhet> Contessa didn't change her
6:40 AM
<keyonte0> https://i.imgur.com/NEb3FwP.jpg
6:40 AM
<•Mishie> No I'm obviously talking to Rhet
6:40 AM
<Rhet> She just broke down a wall
6:40 AM
<•Mishie> But yeah
6:41 AM
<FirstChoir> Jack influenced RIley in such a way that she really enjoeyed all that stuff.
6:41 AM *bonesaw
6:41 AM
<Rhet> Yeah that's abuse
6:41 AM
<FirstChoir> As Bonesaw she liked it. She didn't feel like the victim of an abused victim.
6:41 AM
<Rhet> Because she repressed those feelings
6:41 AM
<FirstChoir> But... okay - perhaps that's how victims of abuse feel. I'm no expert here.
6:41 AM all the years?
6:42 AM → Church- joined (hatter@net-2au89t.dyn.optonline.net)
6:42 AM <FaustAndAbout> Yes?
6:42 AM
<FirstChoir> How she acted alone like with blasto or skitter... didn't look like that to me.
6:42 AM
<DoubleFried> a big part of abuse is that the abusee's worldview is warped into believing that whats happening to them is okay
6:42 AM
<FirstChoir> Oh...
6:42 AM
<Nadaesque> FirstChoir: I think the miscommunication here is that you're focusing on physical abuse, things that activate nociceptors.
6:42 AM
<hex> Bonesaw clearly fucking loved murdering people
6:42 AM
<•Mishie> okay so
6:42 AM
<Rhet> Well, in this case, she thought Jack would kill her if she didn't act like she liked it
6:42 AM
<FirstChoir> @Doublefried That makes sense
6:42 AM
<Rhet> So it's pretty understandable
6:43 AM
<•Mishie> FirstChoir: here's a scenario, you're working at a hospital and you see a woman come in as a patient
6:43 AM <FaustAndAbout> Hey FirstChoir you ever heard of Pavlov's dog?
6:43 AM
<Nadaesque> More like Harlow's "pit of despair."
6:43 AM
<•Mishie> She has fractured facial bones and burns on her arms.
6:43 AM <FaustAndAbout> I'm assuming high school level education Nada
6:43 AM Because complications ain't needed
6:44 AM
<FirstChoir> Somehow... you really conviced me that till the end she was just a victim...
6:44 AM
<•Mishie> When she's asked about how it happened, she's evasive and doesn't want to give any details.
6:44 AM
<FirstChoir> Damn.. makes the meeting with cauldron after the S9000 even more horrible...
6:44 AM
<Rhet> I'm not sure how you could think she wasn't, tbh
6:44 AM
<•Mishie> When she's being discharged her husband arrives to pick her up
6:44 AM
<FirstChoir> I like to believe she was... so amoral.
6:44 AM
<waxpapers> it's pretty common for people inside abusive relationships to not see the relationship as abusive. that's actually a big part of why people have trouble getting out of them
6:45 AM
<•Mishie> Even though she's strongly implied that he abused her earlier, when she's asked about it now she fully denies it
6:45 AM Is that person an abuse victim FirstChoir?
6:45 AM
<Mallmann> Jack Slash was a low-key mind controller though
6:45 AM
<FirstChoir> I dont know.
6:45 AM
<•Mishie> Really?
6:45 AM
<FirstChoir> Really.
6:45 AM
<•Mishie> Because I'm like, literally describing THE cliche example.
6:46 AM Like
6:46 AM <FaustAndAbout> It's outside the lens of biological determinism :p
6:46 AM
<FirstChoir> hahaha
6:46 AM
<•Mishie> I don't know if it's possible for me to make it any more stereotypical
6:46 AM
<FirstChoir> It's just... during what we saw during worm, Bonesaw saw them as family. Even the siberian acted as a mother bear to her.
6:47 AM For me the core-group of the nine are like... family.
6:47 AM
<•Mishie> Well
6:47 AM
<Doc_Mod> I mean just because Bonesaw grows to like them over time and see them as family doesn't mean that she wasn't a victim of abuse and grooming
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6:47 AM
<•Mishie> It's okay to be wrong sometimes
6:47 AM
<FirstChoir> Yeah ; P
6:47 AM
<waxpapers> mishie: she could have a black eye but vehemently insist she fell into a doorknob
6:47 AM
<FirstChoir> And I can at least dmit it
6:47 AM
<•Mishie> waxpapers: I was so close to saying that she tripped and fell down the stairs
6:47 AM But I was like
6:47 AM "Nah that's too much, it's already so over the top"
6:48 AM
<Doc_Mod> Also it feels funny having you talk about bonesaw seeing them as family when they literally killed her parents in front of her.
6:48 AM
<Mallmann> I guess you're missing the point that she was mind controlled all along?
6:48 AM
<Doc_Mod> several times
6:48 AM
<•Mishie> And goddam I've straight up seen WAY worse than shit irl
6:48 AM Mallmann: ehhhh
6:48 AM I wouldn't call it mind control
6:48 AM
<FirstChoir> well...
6:48 AM
<Doc_Mod> Jack doesn't do Heartbreaker shit. That I know of.
6:48 AM
<Mallmann> It is tho. Even more powerful than that
6:48 AM
<FirstChoir> fuck I can't spoiler ward stuff here
6:49 AM
<Doc_Mod> Yeah don't do that
6:49 AM I'll be cross
6:49 AM I haven't caught up
6:49 AM
<•Mishie> Being persuasive and having clues on what to say doesn't make you a mind controller
6:49 AM
<FirstChoir> but jack, siberian and bonesaw actually liked each other
6:49 AM
<•Mishie> See FirstChoir
6:49 AM
<Mallmann> The fact that removing Dragon from the scheme increased the chance of success
6:49 AM
<•Mishie> You keep saying that
6:49 AM
<FirstChoir> @dOC_MOD. READ WARD
6:49 AM it's awesome
6:49 AM
<•Mishie> FirstChoir: no
6:49 AM
<Doc_Mod> Yo don't @ me
6:49 AM
<FirstChoir> oh
6:49 AM
<Ereus> @doc_mod
6:49 AM
<FirstChoir> sorry! :x
6:49 AM
<Doc_Mod> :P
6:49 AM ← Ereus (uid242598@stonehaven.irccloud.com) was kicked by •Mishie: no
6:49 AM
<FirstChoir> didn't know that
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6:49 AM
<DoubleFried> @me
6:49 AM
<Mallmann> Jack Slash main power is his broadcasting
6:50 AM
<Ereus> mashi plz no
6:50 AM
<•Mishie> Don't do things that literally said not to do
6:50 AM
<FirstChoir> I didn't know that.
6:50 AM May I ask why not @-ing doc?
6:50 AM
<•Mishie> Mallmann: yeah and I feel like calling it mind control kinda belies just how insidious it was
6:50 AM <FaustAndAbout> Because he said not to
6:50 AM
<waxpapers> the takeaway is that a lot of abuse victims do see their abusers as family. if your barometer is that if they love the abuser, it's not abuse, you're going to get false negatives on the majority of cases of abuse
6:50 AM
<FirstChoir> I'm to this day not sure what to think about some kind of midn controll.
6:50 AM
<Mallmann> Oh. It wasn't blatant mind controll, yeah
6:51 AM
<•Mishie> Yeah, mainly just a semantics quibble :P
6:51 AM
<waxpapers> @ing when it's not important is kinda irritating. it shows up as a ping, usually makes a noise, etc.
6:51 AM
<•Mishie> adding the @ makes no difference
6:51 AM
<Mallmann> It was more of a Contessa-like mind control
6:51 AM
<Doc_Mod> I have a large dislike of mind control. It's bad fam
6:51 AM
<•Mishie> I'll agree with that Mall
6:51 AM
<Mallmann> You just push the right parts of the brain and kablam
6:52 AM
<•Mishie> Even though I'd argue against calling what she did mind control technically
6:52 AM Yeah
6:52 AM <FaustAndAbout> It's manipulation
6:52 AM
<•Mishie> It's cause/effect
6:52 AM exactly
6:52 AM
<FirstChoir> But jack didn't just abuse her but told her stories until she felt asleep, was really nice to her after she was bonesaw. I think it's such a difficult case that it doesn't fall under the normal abuse-shit we know from our earth
6:52 AM
<•Mishie> um
6:52 AM
<Doc_Mod> Look Choir
6:52 AM
<•Mishie> Buddy
6:52 AM
<Nadaesque> Pal
6:52 AM
<Doc_Mod> Abusers can do nice things every now and again
6:52 AM
<•Mishie> You're literally describing shit that happens in real world abuse cases FirstChoir...
6:52 AM Like
6:52 AM
<Doc_Mod> They're not mustache twirling people who abuse people all the time
6:52 AM
<•Mishie> Abusers aren't just
6:52 AM Yeah
6:52 AM <FaustAndAbout> You can read about this
6:53 AM
<•Mishie> That's literally part of what makes it so hurtful and insidious
6:53 AM How they twist what you consider to be okay
6:53 AM
<Nadaesque> A smart abuser runs hot-and-cold.
6:53 AM <FaustAndAbout> I recommend "The Boy Who Was Raised As A Dog"
6:53 AM
<FirstChoir> it's just my opinion based on what i experienced. I don't say what i'm say is perfect or the ultimative true. But tbh... if I would trigger know having someone like jack beeing so nice to me? Beeing like a father/friend
6:53 AM Because only her trigger event was horrible
6:54 AM
<•Mishie> One that'd abandon you in a second if they decided that it was better for them?
6:54 AM
<FirstChoir> the rest was him beeing like a daddy to her
6:54 AM
<•Mishie> Oof
6:54 AM Yeah uh
6:54 AM
<FirstChoir> He never abadonned her in a second
6:54 AM <FaustAndAbout> Well that and having to kill thousands
6:54 AM
<•Mishie> You're making a TON of assumptions there
6:54 AM About how her day to day life was
6:54 AM
<Mallmann> Make you feel like waking on eggshells. That's classical abuse
6:54 AM <FaustAndAbout> And routinely rip people apart
6:54 AM
<•Mishie> Like
6:54 AM
<Mallmann> *walking
6:54 AM
<FirstChoir> @mishi do you think her day to day life was horrible to her?
6:54 AM
<•Mishie> You saw her after literally years of conditioning
6:54 AM And after having been broken down as a person
6:54 AM So yeah
6:55 AM If that's what you really want, more power to you.
6:55 AM I'm not going to kickshame
6:55 AM <FaustAndAbout> She's part of a public enemy group
6:55 AM Her day to day is probably pretty bad
6:55 AM
<FirstChoir> @Faustandabout why do you think so?
6:55 AM I just think about how she handled skitter
6:55 AM
<Rhet> Have you met Jack
6:55 AM <FaustAndAbout> ...because she's a wanted woman.
6:56 AM Who has a kill order
6:56 AM
<FirstChoir> Jack made her like that stuff.
6:56 AM
<Doc_Mod> When you've literally given everyone free reign to kill you.
6:56 AM You tend to live in not so nice abodes
6:56 AM
<FirstChoir> Until the end she seemed happy for me to be a party of the nine.
6:56 AM Just my point of view
6:56 AM
<•Mishie> til if you're abused until you like it, it's not abuse
6:56 AM
<Rhet> Yeah that's what Snyder victims look like
6:56 AM
<elaine> this convo is about bonesaw but i just wanna mention that "they seemed to be reasonably content with their situation therefore they were not wronged" is an argument that's been used to justify a lot of heinous stuff
6:56 AM
<Rhet> *abuse
6:56 AM
<•Mishie> elaine: yupe
6:56 AM <FaustAndAbout> Because she's in too deep to get out
6:57 AM
<Rhet> What's next, Riley's "friend" at the store wasn't actually a pedophile?
6:57 AM <FaustAndAbout> Technically...
6:57 AM But yeah a pedophile
6:57 AM
<FirstChoir> He was, right?
6:58 AM
<•Mishie> Well
6:58 AM
<FirstChoir> I didn't get it the first time i read it because 'Bonesaw interlude'
6:58 AM
<•Mishie> He never said he was
6:58 AM So obviously he wasn't
6:58 AM <FaustAndAbout> It's the vampire dilemma
6:58 AM
<•Mishie> People wouldn't just lie like that right?
6:58 AM
<FirstChoir> then other people mentioned it, i re-read it and... damn....
6:58 AM
<The_J> same here Choir
6:59 AM it's like re-watching Black Mirror's Shut Up and Dance
6:59 AM <FaustAndAbout> Well that's like how Skitter sexually abused Grue by not getting consent
6:59 AM
<Ereus> everyone ihould become vampires
6:59 AM
<FirstChoir> But at least he didn't do anything bad. I still don't have an opionion about phedohilies. Because it's not like you choose to be one. But you... kind of choose to act upon it. He didn't do anything like that to her. So... I dont know....
6:59 AM
<•Mishie> And pressing super hard after a hilariously fucked up situation
6:59 AM
<Ereus> immortal society hwen
6:59 AM
<FirstChoir> Skitter abused Grue? Care to explain?
6:59 AM
<•Mishie> Do you uh
7:00 AM Not remember the scene where after he was brutally tortured by Bonesaw?
7:00 AM <FaustAndAbout> okay did you just say you don't have an opinion about pedophiles
7:00 AM Let's back it up
7:00 AM
<FirstChoir> Nah!
7:00 AM
<•Mishie> Where Skitter and Grue were in bed together and she pressured him for sex until he said yes?
7:00 AM
<FirstChoir> I phrased myself wrong
7:00 AM <FaustAndAbout> Okay
7:00 AM
<Ereus> i dont actually remember that
7:00 AM <FaustAndAbout> But yeah, Mishie has the gist
7:00 AM
<Doc_Mod> I remember Imp watched.
7:01 AM
<FirstChoir> I rephrase myself: 'If you are born like that it's not your fault but if you abuse kids sexually it's your fucking fault'
7:01 AM
<Doc_Mod> because she's digusting
7:01 AM
<•Mishie> don't kinkshame Doc
7:01 AM <Sidezero> ^
7:01 AM
<FirstChoir> @faustandabout better now?
7:01 AM
<waxpapers> nah, I think imp would agree
7:01 AM
<Ereus> can i kinkshame myself tho 🤔
7:01 AM <FaustAndAbout> She was the only one who was supporting him so she used that position of power to have sex when he was clearly uncomfortable.
7:01 AM
<FirstChoir> I never saw it like that
7:01 AM
<Doc_Mod> can I call imp wrong for using her powers like that?
7:01 AM
<FirstChoir> but i need to reread that
7:01 AM
<Doc_Mod> or is that still shaming?
7:02 AM <FaustAndAbout> And that's why he doesn't talk to Taylor
7:02 AM
<FirstChoir> I think it is horrible that imp whatched someone having sex
7:02 AM
<•Mishie> She uh
7:02 AM
<The_J> it's shaming but it is wrong
7:02 AM <FaustAndAbout> You can tell in their interactions later
7:02 AM
<The_J> like
7:02 AM
<•Mishie> Kinda used him
7:02 AM <FaustAndAbout> Kinda?
7:02 AM
<FirstChoir> can you quote that?
7:02 AM where did she use him?
7:03 AM
<Rhet> You can't really quote subtext
7:03 AM
<•Mishie> When she wanted to have sex as a way to feel close to someone?  As a way to feel safe and wanted?
7:03 AM Which is totally fair and understandable.
7:03 AM
<Doc_Mod> Mhm
7:03 AM
<•Mishie> But a bit of a dick move if you keep asking them until they say yes
7:03 AM Because they're so emotionally broken down
7:03 AM <FaustAndAbout> The problem isn't sex it's coercion
7:03 AM
<Doc_Mod> 50 nos and a yes is still a yes.
7:03 AM <FaustAndAbout> You go to college
7:04 AM You should know this
7:04 AM
<The_J> Doc is that a joke or serious
7:04 AM
<•Mishie> Doc_Mod: yeah, but it's the effect that having those no's be ignored totally that's the fun part
7:04 AM
<Doc_Mod> It's a joke
7:04 AM
<The_J> whew
7:04 AM
<Doc_Mod> I'm quoting a family guy cutaway gag
7:04 AM
<The_J> ah my bad
7:04 AM <FaustAndAbout> Title IX
7:04 AM
<FirstChoir> Here we have both people who were able to faught the S9 and and Endbringer. If you are able to do this.... if you really don't want sex, it shouldn't be so hard to say now.
7:04 AM <•OverThal> Doc_Mod: that's almost as bad as the other thing
7:04 AM
<FirstChoir> Both were broken emotionally
7:05 AM
— •Mishie stares
7:05 AM
<•Mishie> That's uh
7:05 AM
<Rhet> There's the victim blaming again
7:05 AM
<•Mishie> That's a fascinating opinion to have
7:05 AM
<FirstChoir> There were more reaosns behind them having sex than just lusting for each other.
7:05 AM I'm biased.
7:05 AM
<Doc_Mod> This reminds me
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