Dat Boi - Today at 8:13 PM
Ari has banned Grandpa Reinhardt
Ari - Today at 8:17 PM
H r m n. One second.
[08:11 PM]   X: I'm sure the answer is probably no but on the slim chance it's yes, it doesn't hurt to ask: is it possible for a not-mod to see the list of people that are banned from the room?
[08:14 PM]   Sea Salt: As far as I know, no! Heck, I don't even know how to get the ban list myself. As far as I know, SlimCat lists /banlist as a Moderator command.
[08:14 PM]   X: Ah, okay. The amount of people--and, lately, the specific people being targeted--is becoming increasingly worrying tbh.
[08:15 PM]   Sea Salt: What's there to be worried about? I never understood the trend. People are being punished for doing things they shouldn't be doing. Be good, do what you want, enjoy yourself. It isn't hard to follow a few rules, after all.
[08:15 PM]   Sea Salt: And for what it's worth, I can assure you the past few bans have been unrelated to one another.
[08:16 PM]  X: I would understand that, if the people that were being banned weren't some of the nicest people I've met on here.
[08:16 PM]   X: I've seen jackasses get banned in other rooms, for being jackasses in those rooms, and then I see all these upstanding folk get banned in the room after doing nothing in said room.
[08:16 PM]   X: Hell, the most recent one is a beloved mod in other rooms even.
[08:17 PM]   Sea Salt: Just because a person is nice does not mean they did not break the rules. Anyone can appear nice, after all! People have many sides, you know.
  - Today at 8:18 PM
we would not be banning them for no reason
Ari - Today at 8:18 PM
Do we give out specific reasons to people who are 'worried'? Or do we just leave it as a vague "They have caused problems"
Also
[08:17 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: Huh
[08:17 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: Wish people would have come to me about this but alright
Dat Boi - Today at 8:19 PM
'Beloved mod in other rooms'
  - Today at 8:19 PM
for reinhardt no, absolutely do not tell why
it may become a site staff issue
Ari - Today at 8:19 PM
Understood!
What about Carl Mills and Baresenio / Ratsenio?
  - Today at 8:21 PM
i still stand by a policy of vague truth; it's fine to me to tell the general reason why just nothing specific to like, give examples? it's one thing to say 'a guy was spamming people pictures' vs 'this guy could just not stop sending people dicc pics'
Dat Boi - Today at 8:22 PM
Carl would be repeated bad behavior, and Ratsenio would be bad mouthing/arguing with moderators, yea?
Maybe questioning moderation too.
Ari - Today at 8:22 PM
Questioning moderation sounds bad lmao
  - Today at 8:22 PM
ratsenio would be arguing with moderators and escalating right up to a ban despite multiple warnings
Dat Boi - Today at 8:23 PM
Questioning moderation rudely
  - Today at 8:23 PM
that'd be disrespecting moderation
Ari - Today at 8:24 PM
:thumbsup:
Though, no I think he just thinks we're only allowed to ban based on what happens in the room. I'm not sure he knows the Discord exists.
  - Today at 8:25 PM
grandpa reinhardt got banned for a very serious offense that we cannot discuss because i'll be talkin to a fuckin site mod about it and if need be have to go get like dev so i don't even want to toy around with that
Ari - Today at 8:27 PM
[08:26 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: Im curious to know how people found out about the post
:unamused:
Dat Boi - Today at 8:28 PM
UH, YOU'RE SIGNAL BOOSTING IT
Ari - Today at 8:28 PM
Here let me post what I said to him.
Dat Boi - Today at 8:28 PM
Seriously.
Ari - Today at 8:28 PM
Hello, this is Sea Salt, moderator of Bara here!

It has come to our attention that there has been an incident regarding you and several members of the Bara chatroom, regarding a particular Tumblr post that contains some [i]very[/i] inappropriate material regarding the real life name of a certain user, multiple accounts by which to locate the user, and many, many other instances of harassment, including one portion of it which wishes that the individual committed suicide. It’s a very atrocious act, really, and displays [b]incredibly[/b] toxic behavior and attitudes which are not condoned by the room, but the real reason for me coming to you today is the fact that in your section you signal boosted the harrassing chain of posts, encouraging people on the F-List site to spread it around. That is a direct violation of F-List rules, and as a mod team we have decided to punish such toxicity in a manner fitting for such a heinous act. I’m here to inform you that you are now [b]banned[/b] from both the Bara F-Chat room as well as the Discord. Needless to say no alts will be allowed in the room, and if you enter the room on any other characters site staff will be alerted of your ban evasion. Best of luck on your future endeavors, however, and have a wonderful day.
Dat Boi - Today at 8:29 PM
Grandpa Reinhardt is discussing his 'annoyance' in Overwatch
Ari - Today at 8:29 PM
How wonderful. I can't wait.
Should I mention that Josef's Tumblr contains the post?
Dat Boi - Today at 8:29 PM
If he legitimately vents to a room full of people who aren't involved, I will be disappointed.
  - Today at 8:29 PM
no
if they're tipped off they may delete it
Ari - Today at 8:30 PM
Well, we have screen shots, and wouldn't the end goal be to get it deleted?
  - Today at 8:30 PM
yes but ideally i'd like a site mod to see it with their own eyes first
Ari - Today at 8:30 PM
Right, right. Well in that case I'll just remain silent.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 8:31 PM
I would screencap it, possibly report it.
Dat Boi - Today at 8:32 PM
All he has said so far is 'I'm annoyed', no one asked why.
He's baiting someone into asking why.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 8:32 PM
logs onto Satyajit.  Sits in the channel.
Ari - Today at 8:37 PM
[08:26 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: Im curious to know how people found out about the post
[08:36 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: Also, due to curiosity what rule does this break within the Flist rules listing?
  - Today at 8:39 PM
Out-of-Character Violations

This is intended to protect the individual rights of the user, and ensure that people do not have to suffer for declining a role-play, or otherwise offending people on the site. A user should feel safe in F-List, at all times, and violating these rules may lead to instant removal from the site. Beyond that, F-List is a roleplaying site; it is not meant to be used for real-life hookups.
Maliciously posting, linking, or alluding to knowledge of another individual's personal information

        This includes revealing a user's private alternate profiles to others without their consent
Dat Boi - Today at 8:39 PM
It's also inciting a witch hunt, I really don't get how he doesn't understand.
Ari - Today at 8:39 PM
I have a feeling he's talking to friends who are urging him to ask all these questions with clear-cut answers.
  - Today at 8:40 PM
probably
Ari - Today at 8:42 PM
Well I'll copy paste that either way.
[08:44 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: i simply gave my experiances with the person and that the post should be shared.
[08:45 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: its a private room so you can people without reason and accept ive been banned. i just think the reasoning and the substance having been several months ago doesn't make much sense.
[08:46 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: ban*
[08:46 PM]   Sea Salt: Just because it is a personal experience does not mean that it is not violating the site rules, and the post clearly reveals a lot of information, as well as alts of a user. Signal boosting a post filled with personal information is a violation. That is our reasoning.
[08:47 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: im banned, at this point its really whatever. Everything happened off site so you all can do as you please.
[08:48 PM]   Grandpa Reinhardt: You might as well ban half the room if thats the case, a chunk of the discord room was sharing the heck out of the tumblr stuff when it surfaced months ago. Just wanted to make you aware.
He's pulling the scummiest tactic I've ever seen, saying that because it's off-site it shouldn't matter, as well as trying to share the blame across a multitude of people.
Dat Boi - Today at 8:50 PM
Point to the part again where it says 'Please share this around on f-list'
I think he's also missing a few words in his posts, yikes.
He makes it on-site by saying that.
Ari - Today at 9:02 PM
So, this Dino Dad has an issue with wanting more information, and I don't want to say "We can't tell you" because it sounds shady, but obviously I don't want to go in-depth into the three users he's asked about. I gave him the vague gist of the 2 able to be discussed, and for Reinhardt I simply said that it was a serious offense that had to be handled with care. Do we want to encourage them to seek out the individuals and ask them why they were banned? I assumed we don't go in-depth due to a privacy issue.
  - Today at 9:08 PM
you've told them what you can, ultimately you have to respect their privacy and not go into further detail
Ari - Today at 9:09 PM
Yeah, sounds about right.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:19 PM
I can see why he'd be wanting information but this also shows why we should tread carefully, especially in light of that tumblr post.
People get spooked.
Ari - Today at 9:19 PM
It's all good, for the most part he's done with me. He might come to other mods, though.
Okay so I'm still at it with this Dino Dad and uh
@𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍.
He's asking about you now
[09:34 PM]   Dino Dad: I see. Are you by any chance able to/allowed to say when Satyajit was made a moderator...?
Tough Grunt - Today at 9:34 PM
So if I mind asking.
Seeing as people are getting in trouble for said Tumblr post. Had I posted something in that said chain, would I have been kicked out?
Seeing as the said tumblr post was posted OUT of f-list jurisdiction. Would that actually have any holds on what goes on in the room? That is, unless, someone were to post it in room?
I just don't think that posting something that doesn't have anything to with f-list should have any leeway.
Ari - Today at 9:38 PM
It does have to do with F-List, though. Bara itself was mentioned, and if that sort of thing is on a Tumblr that's easily accessible and Lemon clearly said to spread it around to users of F-List, then yes, that is an issue.
Grandpa Reinhardt himself admitted that the Tumblr post was being spread by over half of Bara, which, suffice to say, is bad for the room's reputation. It also outs the alts of a user who used to frequent Bara, so as far as I'm concerned, they're still breaking rules.
Saying that it is "Off-Site" and that it shouldn't have any jurisdiction shows that these individuals know that what they are doing is wrong. They didn't say it on F-List because they knew that it was wrong. They did it on Tumblr and were ready with the "It's not on F-List," but unfortunately it still regards a community that myself and others moderate.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:40 PM
eyerub.
Dat Boi - Today at 9:40 PM
I do believe Grandpa Reinhardt was being hyperbolic in his statement of 'over half of bara was spreading it around', but the point still stands.
Ari - Today at 9:40 PM
I'm not going to allow behavior like that to go unpunished. Just because you say it on another site does not excuse you for being immature and petty, as well as being relatively scummy for trying to brush it under the rug, while at the same time signal boosting it (I.E. Grandpa Reinhardt's explicit message to share it to others.)
deranged neighing - Today at 9:41 PM
The problem with that kind of attitude though is that it comes close to being thought police-y.
Tough Grunt - Today at 9:41 PM
Exactly what I'm worried about.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:41 PM
I'm not saying that these people haven't done an extremely shitty thing.
Because they have.
But they did it on a platform where F-list isn't involved even though they mentioned us.
Tough Grunt - Today at 9:42 PM
Words keep going around that things are getting shifty here yo be honest and I'm worried that our reputation is getting worse.
Ari - Today at 9:42 PM
Is it thought police-y? A patron of our room was harrassed, and attacked, and their personal information was posted and shared throughout F-List, according to one of the chain posters themselves.
I'd like to see some of the people's complaints, but unfortunately they don't come forward!
I've helped those who've asked to the best of my abilities, but even so I've only dealt with one person in my time as a moderator who has had any real complaint.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:43 PM
Yeah,, but see, it's still off site.
That's the biggest issue right there.
Ari - Today at 9:44 PM
It might be off-site, but it's targeting the reputation of our room just the same, and other individuals who are a part of the community.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:44 PM
So it makes me, personally, real leery of like...
Ari - Today at 9:44 PM
Sure, you're free to have your opinion, but slandering a person is outright malicious.
And slandering a room is unnecessary if your issue is with that person individually.
It's the blurring of these lines that gives me reason to step in.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:45 PM
People are going to have smear campaigns though.
That's the thing.
Ari - Today at 9:45 PM
If it had been a post solely about their person AWAY from their F-List, then so be it. Because they want to drag the off-site and the on-site together, then that's where I have the issue.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:46 PM
And I just feel like it's dealing with a puppy. The puppy doesn't think about piddling on the floor. Rubbing its nose in it after the fact won't make it learn anything. That's what we'd be doing - rubbing their noses in it after the fact.
Ari - Today at 9:46 PM
So what's your solution?
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 9:49 PM
.... why am I coming up?
Ari - Today at 9:49 PM
They wanted me to inform them when you came a mod. (Mind you, I've no clue. It was a question out of the blue.)
Oh. Follow-up.
[09:34 PM]   Dino Dad: I see. Are you by any chance able to/allowed to say when Satyajit was made a moderator...?
[09:39 PM]   Dino Dad: And are the affiliated rooms run by the same people/owners? I'm noticing Hanzo and Jesse listed as the mods in an affiliated room and they are some of the most shady, bigoted users I've seen on this site, it's sad to think of Bara associating themselves with those people but I guess it explains what's been happening...
deranged neighing - Today at 9:50 PM
Honestly? If it were me, I'd just ignore it. These people don't know shit and jumping on them for their opinion isn't going to do anything but enforce a negative view of the room and of us. Yes, it is a really shitty situation, and yes they dragged a person's name through the mud and shared information that shouldn't have gone public, but banning people for that seems a little too ... I don't want to use the word strict because that's not what I'm trying to convey... ... Stringent? Stringent might be the word I want. It's a terrible solution, but that's my solution. Banning the parties involved would only feed the fire.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 9:51 PM
Wow.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:51 PM
I'm not arguing for inaction.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 9:51 PM
If you would like my two cents on Dino Dads questioning.....
Ari - Today at 9:52 PM
I'd love it. I'm being grilled on things I have no knowledge of, since I've only been here say, a month or so.
Dat Boi - Today at 9:52 PM
I have a question. What if G wanted to come back to his room one day? I feel like that it'd blow up all over again. and even more people in bara would get involved.
deranged neighing - Today at 9:52 PM
That's another issue.
Ari - Today at 9:53 PM
Well it would be one thing to ignore it if it wasn't so accessible. The issue we're having is that A) Grandpa Reinhardt decided to signal boost it, through friends of users of F-List and so on. I do not want to condone that sort of behavior amongst people, who feel that they must spread the word about one user in particular. B) Josef has his Tumblr linked on his profile, which of course is his prerogative, however you cannot link your Tumblr to your F-List when you have such a slanderous doxx only say, four to six posts down, which was how we found it in the first place.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 9:54 PM
Hanzo, Jesse, and I ran with the same group for a while, and we were no doubt considered trouble-users in Overwatch because we tended to call people out on things like "Man, there's so much blue here".  As well as questioning therule about roleplaying in the channel and why/when it was enforced, and to whom.  I believe there as at least one incident where the mods said a joke about piss was "inappropriate" and we pointed out that the room owner had condoned ageplay/pedophilia at least once in the past.
And I like to think a lot of my OW names are easy to point out?
deranged neighing - Today at 9:55 PM
The issue still comes up that it's on his tumblr. If he was charging around saying this shit on F-list, then yeah, it'd be no thought to ban him for it. But it's still one of those really gray areas. There's not going to be an easy solution here.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 9:56 PM
Honestly, in GR's case, telling people to spread it around tumblr made it an onsite issue.  But that's already been said.
Ari - Today at 9:56 PM
Exactly. Plus the alt-outing is another issue just the same.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 9:57 PM
And the use of a real life name.
Ari - Today at 9:57 PM
Those aren't opinions, mind you.
Those are facts being stated and made accessible through F-List.
So, yes. By proxy I do believe it is an on-site issue.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 9:58 PM
And who is to say people aren't going to do the shit people did with me?
deranged neighing - Today at 9:59 PM
The problem with that is that we've had a global mod see that post and like the information. That means that the global mods are probably aware of this post and they've done nothing about it.
So I mean.
I don't know.
I agree that GR should be bannned because of what he's done.
deranged neighing - Today at 10:00 PM
His behavior's been reprehensible.
But going after other people for just putting down opinions?
Tough Grunt - Today at 10:01 PM
Which I have to add this question again: "If I were to post something on that chain of replies, would i be sorely punished?"(edited)
Ari - Today at 10:01 PM
Okay, there are opinions and personal experiences, and then there are real names, alt-sharing, etc.
And to answer your question, Shawn, not explicitly. The way I see it is if you have an issue with the person, you can handle that on Tumblr. Fine. You can vent about Logan or what have you all you want, but at the point of which you condone the association of G / Snow to Logan, that is where the lies.
You can also have an opinion about G, and you can recount personal experiences, but that shouldn't involve their real life name, OR their alts.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, just because you got it on F-List, and took it to Tumblr.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 10:03 PM
I think it would depend on what the post was.  I mean, if someone dug up a repost from a while back ago/a long time ago in your tumblr, it's one thing.  I mean, shit, that's what Josef did, albeit recently, and I thought it was better to discuss the problem it posed with him before taking up some harsher disciplinary action.
deranged neighing - Today at 10:04 PM
That post about G's been around for a while, is the thing.
Ari - Today at 10:04 PM
Just because it's old doesn't mean you shouldn't deal with it.
Just because you were cut several hours ago does not mean you shouldn't treat the wound later down the line.(edited)
My point is, these people cannot handle themselves like mature adults. If you have a problem with G, vent your problems with G. I don't give a damn if you hate their guts, that's your OPINION. Stating their alts? FACT. A fact which, by the site mod's own rules, is an offense. Stating their REAL NAME(S)? FACT. Also not allowed by the site rules, on the website we are moderating.
𝙸 𝚊𝚖 𝚖𝚘𝚜𝚝 𝚌𝚎𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚒𝚗𝚕𝚢 𝚒𝚗 𝚝𝚑𝚎 𝚖𝚘𝚘𝚍. - Today at 10:06 PM
It has.  I had been sent it long before I got that note.
Ari - Today at 10:07 PM
What I'm trying to say is, if you want to make a post, do it at least like a semi-adult. Know what you're typing, and type it well. You can talk shit about G. Fine. That's your opinion. You can talk shit about Logan. Fine. That is your opinion. What you CAN'T do is associate the two.
Does that settle it? Have I made myself clear? Or do I need to repeat myself?