API tools faq
paste
Advertisement
JaysonSunshine

The Subsumption of Theism

JaysonSunshine
Mar 26th, 2018
253
0
Never
Add comment
Not a member of Pastebin yet? Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!
text 10.30 KB | None | 0 0
raw download clone embed print report
  1. KiwiIRC
  2. DALnet12#atheism0#christiandebate0
  3. "Ephesians 2:8-9: (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast". - Salvation is not a privilege, or a right, or a rewards to be earned, it is a gift not to be boasted about. - Unknown
  4. 5:28:14 PM→ SimpleJak has joined
  5. 5:28:15 PMⓘ "Ephesians 2:8-9: (KJV) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast". - Salvation is not a privilege, or a right, or a rewards to be earned, it is a gift not to be boasted about. - Unknown
  6. 5:28:15 PM[CancelBot]BibleBot is online. Serving acv akjv amp apo asv avot bbe bom dict dar dou greek heb hebrew hnv jps kjv kjv+ litv nasb niv nkjv quran rot rsv strongs web ylt yng vulgate. We also translate. In channel !help
  7. 5:28:16 PM+XaKepit's both but without explanation ?
  8. 5:28:17 PMⓘ Profound set mode +v SimpleJak
  9. 5:28:36 PM+iavswnObviously Facts don't matter to barabbas`.
  10. 5:28:44 PMⓘ QRT set mode -b *!*be5c7f94@190.92.127.148
  11. 5:29:31 PM← Isaiah_41_10 has quit (Quit:)
  12. 5:30:14 PM← chalcedony has quit (Read error: Connection timed out)
  13. 5:30:22 PM+XaKep"fully human" *AND* "fully divine" has never been explained (as far as I know) OR even understood by anyone (as far as I know) <-- kind of breath taking when you think about it
  14. 5:30:48 PM+XaKepthis is perhaps *the* core concept
  15. 5:31:08 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: There are no gods.
  16. 5:31:13 PM+iavswnXaKep, No Trinitarian christian anywhere will accept that its in FACT a contradiction.
  17. 5:31:15 PM+SimpleJakThat model has been refuted.
  18. 5:31:21 PM→ chalcedony has joined
  19. 5:31:21 PMⓘ ChanServ set mode +o chalcedony
  20. 5:31:22 PM+SimpleJakThose models*
  21. 5:31:24 PMⓘ BibleBot set mode +v chalcedony
  22. 5:31:27 PM+XaKepjlk much SimpleJak
  23. 5:31:40 PM+XaKepold joke, you had to be there ...
  24. 5:31:56 PM+iavswnXaKep, No Trinitarian christian anywhere will accept that it is in FACT a contradiction.
  25. 5:32:12 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: I don't know what "jlk" means in this context.
  26. 5:32:20 PM+SimpleJakDo you mean "glk"?
  27. 5:32:29 PM+XaKepa guy who used to say exactly what you did OFTEN
  28. 5:32:43 PM+XaKepglk was a nick in the old days here
  29. 5:33:04 PM+XaKepya ya glk sorry
  30. 5:33:05 PM+SimpleJakI am familiar with glk.
  31. 5:33:19 PM+XaKepmy bad
  32. 5:33:33 PM+iavswnIts like trying to convince an atheist God exist.
  33. 5:33:36 PM+SimpleJakTheism hasn't been a legitimate explanatory framework in any domain of knowledge/science for over 150 years.
  34. 5:33:46 PM+XaKep"no gods are found" <-- the classic I think
  35. 5:33:50 PM+SimpleJakCorrect.
  36. 5:34:02 PM+SimpleJak"No evidence of gods detected."
  37. 5:34:07 PM+XaKepright
  38. 5:34:14 PM+iavswnSimpleJak, atheists failed and continue to fail miserably at science.
  39. 5:34:21 PM Ignoring iavswn!*@*
  40. 5:34:24 PM+XaKepbut but ... what about "fine feelings" ??
  41. 5:34:26 PM+SimpleJakiavswn: I will no longer engage you in this conversation.
  42. 5:34:43 PM+SimpleJakReason: The posterior on your being intelligent and interesting to me is low.
  43. 5:34:58 PM+SimpleJakIn my subjective, Bayesian evaluation.
  44. 5:35:28 PM+XaKepiavswn, the problem with having a fundamental tenet being contradictory is that it makes everything incoherent somehow
  45. 5:35:55 PM+XaKephow can anyone assert a contradiction as a truth ? it's incoherent
  46. 5:36:16 PM+Joellooking for God with science is destined to fail since science inherently can't detect anything outside the material universe
  47. 5:36:16 PM→ awolmindset has joined
  48. 5:36:18 PMⓘ Profound set mode +v awolmindset
  49. 5:36:32 PM+awolmindsethttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/a9NBhcst/IMG_1769.JPG
  50. 5:36:41 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: Not in all formal systems.
  51. 5:36:52 PM+XaKepooohhh... Godel much?
  52. 5:37:04 PM+SimpleJakJoel: The notion of 'outside the universe' is devoid of content.
  53. 5:37:22 PM+Joelawolmindset: you grill that? looks good
  54. 5:37:40 PM+JoelSimpleJak: not if one is spiritually aware
  55. 5:37:42 PM+SimpleJakAnd when used as a way to protect the god(s) of a particular group of humans living in Judea ~2500 years ago, disingenuous.
  56. 5:37:43 PM+awolmindsetyessir
  57. 5:37:52 PM+XaKepSimpleJak, if a formal system contains a contradiction then it can prove anything, right?
  58. 5:37:52 PM+awolmindsetJust made it :P
  59. 5:37:57 PM+SimpleJakJoel: Spirituality is a mode of the human brain -- it is fully materialistic.
  60. 5:38:03 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: Not necessarily.
  61. 5:38:11 PM+SimpleJakThere are para-consistent logics that can handle contradictions.
  62. 5:38:14 PM+JoelSimpleJak: hmm ...
  63. 5:38:30 PM+SimpleJakAlso, in scientific epistemology, no statements have a truth value of 0 or 1, but rather in the range (0,1).
  64. 5:38:38 PM+XaKepahh....
  65. 5:38:42 PM+SimpleJakThis merely pushes the probability on statements close to zero, as opposed to allowing for contradictions.
  66. 5:38:45 PM+XaKepis that like fuzzy logic?
  67. 5:39:00 PM+XaKepor is that fuzzy logic?
  68. 5:39:05 PM+SimpleJakI'm not certain. My guess is that fuzzy logic has a strong relationship with statistical epistemology.
  69. 5:39:53 PM+XaKepiavswn, my problem is trinitarianism is it doesn't make any sense ? like what the heck IS that ?
  70. 5:40:06 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: From Wikipedia, it looks accurate to say Bayesian inference is a type of fuzzy logic.
  71. 5:40:08 PM+barabbas`iavswn Yet I and others have provided ample evidence from Scripture that the trinity is true doctrine.
  72. 5:40:24 PM+XaKeptrue IS false <--- what does that mean?
  73. 5:40:47 PM+SimpleJakWhat does the symbol "true" mean/point to?
  74. 5:41:02 PM+SimpleJakIf it is the name of a variable, for example, than you have given the variable "true" a value of "false".
  75. 5:41:07 PM+Joelit's normal for a soul to have multiple individuals within it.. the Trinity concept refers to the three deity spirits within God's soul
  76. 5:41:13 PM+barabbas`iavswn On the other hand, you have failed to provide any evidence of your authority. Why should anyone in their right mind believe the nonsense you have spewed here this afternoon?
  77. 5:41:18 PM Ignoring Joel!*@*
  78. 5:41:48 PM+XaKep[X AND not-X] <--- this is incoherent as a description of anything real (to me but maybe I'm stupid)
  79. 5:43:15 PM+barabbas`iavswn That hardly qualifies as authority. Besides I have easily, with scripture support, destroyed all your contentions and arguments.
  80. 5:43:17 PM+XaKepthere's another one that makes no sense to me, Jesus reportedly saying "I am the Truth" <-- does this mean jesus is the correspondence between propositions and actualities?
  81. 5:43:37 PM+SimpleJakhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_excluded_middle#Criticisms
  82. 5:43:43 PM+XaKepnot arguing here, I just never understood it
  83. 5:43:57 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: Jesus isn't to be taken seriously in matters of epistemology.
  84. 5:44:08 PM+SimpleJakHe is notable from a historical perspective, and in terms of value theory.
  85. 5:44:17 PM+SimpleJakThough, most/all of his ideas are subsumed at this point.
  86. 5:44:45 PM+XaKepso saying "I am the Truth" equates to "I'm a VERY good guy" or soemthing ?
  87. 5:44:47 PM+barabbas`iavswn if you say so, but again, what gives you any authority? Why should anyone take you at your word, when your arguments were all easily dismissed with scripture support by me and others.
  88. 5:44:49 PM+SimpleJakA similar point could be made about Aristotle, but Aristotle was much smarter than Jesus of Nazareth.
  89. 5:45:46 PM* barabbas` is going to play with a couple grandkids, they are two and four and make more sense that iavswn. God Bless
  90. 5:45:51 PMⓘ barabbas` is now known as barabbas`bbl
  91. 5:45:55 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: Jesus' most import contribution to human thought, as far as I can tell, is an implicit reference/advocacy for acausal trade theory as a means to resolve the tendency of human systems to evolve towards Nash equilibrium that are undesirable for many/most participants in those systems.
  92. 5:46:39 PM+SimpleJakKant more explicitly described the notion of agent as system-builder, and von Neumann and Nash laid the foundations for mathematical game theory.
  93. 5:46:51 PM+XaKepso the whole atonement thing was cooked up after the fact by others ?
  94. 5:46:57 PM+SimpleJakThere's nothing left for Jesus' teachings in this regards, except perhaps the convenient emotional/psychological packing of those ideas for human receivers.
  95. 5:47:16 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: Atonement is a means to leverage the human desire to move past Nash equilibria.
  96. 5:47:46 PM+SimpleJakAmong other things.
  97. 5:47:50 PM+XaKepI'll have to google Nash equilibrium (after dinner) :-)
  98. 5:48:11 PM+SimpleJakXaKep: Multiplayer games, given some constraints, evolve towards Nash equilibria.
  99. 5:48:27 PM+SimpleJakA Nash equilibrium is a state in which no player can unilaterally improve their position.
  100. 5:48:36 PM+SimpleJakMany Nash equilibria are sub-optimal for the goals of the players.
  101. 5:48:43 PM+SimpleJakA common example:
  102. 5:48:58 PM+SimpleJakYou have a beach from -1 to 1 with beachgoers randomly distributed across the beach.
  103. 5:49:25 PM+SimpleJakTwo ice cream sellers emerge to sell ice cream to our hot beachgoers. What is the optimal location to minimize average travel of beachgoers?
  104. 5:49:31 PM+SimpleJak-0.5 and 0.5
  105. 5:49:37 PM+SimpleJakHowever, that is not stable.
  106. 5:49:59 PM+SimpleJakBoth ice cream sellers are incentivized as agents in that system to move towards the other one, as then they will get more than 50% of sells.
  107. 5:50:10 PM+SimpleJakThe only Nash equilibrium for this system is with both sellers at 0 -- which is socially suboptimal.
  108. 5:50:35 PM+SimpleJakKant's suggestion to resolve this is for each agent to make their decisions as if they were the rule-maker for the system, analogous to a human writing code for a system.
  109. 5:50:54 PM← XaKep has quit (Ping timeout)
  110. 5:50:59 PM+SimpleJakAcausal trade theory is another way to get at the categorical imperative.
  111. 5:51:13 PM+SimpleJakMost popular religions make some attempt to do the same thing.
  112.  
  113. 47 Users
  114. @[e]
  115. @BibleBot
  116. @BruderInChristus
  117. @chalcedony
  118. @dizzy_
  119. @Fundamenta|ist
  120. @Profound
  121. @QRT
  122. @Sara_Ks
  123. +Audreyx
  124. +awolmindset
  125. +Bach
  126. +barabbas`bbl
  127. +Bluberi
  128. +CancelBot
  129. +CBS
  130. +chcknrub
  131. +commie
  132. +CooLSouL
  133. +dark
  134. +devil
  135. +earthling
  136. +fade-
  137. +Flake
  138. +gyrus
  139. +Ham_
  140. +HRPufnstuf
  141. +iavswn
  142. +Joel
  143. +karstensrage
  144. +Lake_Gurl
  145. +mrBen1k2k7k9k_
  146. +mugz
  147. +nack
  148. +NaughtyCanid
  149. +Noodling
  150. +Publios
  151. +QST
  152. +Raven`X
  153. +RenaissanceMan
  154. +sexb
  155. +sexbee
  156. +Shirakawasuna
  157. +SimpleJak
  158. +TonySnark
  159. +UnderCoverNerd
  160. +YoungGuard
  161. SimpleJak
  162. Send message...
Advertisement
Add Comment
Please, Sign In to add comment
Advertisement
Public Pastes
Advertisement
We use cookies for various purposes including analytics. By continuing to use Pastebin, you agree to our use of cookies as described in the Cookies Policy.  OK, I Understand
Not a member of Pastebin yet?
Sign Up, it unlocks many cool features!