[6:34:40 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: By the way, about fate and all that. I basically combine chance and fate in my cosmology, in some sense. Let's begin on the premise something cannot come from genuinely nothing. If something exists or emerges, that implies there was already something there or at least the potential for something to exist, which counts as something. Given the fact the present universe exists, i.e., given the current existence of something, that implies something has always existed in some form, since the existence of something implies there was already an innate potential for something to exist, and if there was ever a time when absolutely nothing existed at all on a universal scale, including no potential for any future existence, then nothing would exist today. Since something exists today, something has always existed, otherwise there would, as stated, be nothing. Since something has always existed in some form, the ultimate origins of the universe lack any initial cause, whether those origins be a conscious entity (e.g. a deity) or an unconscious force or material (i.e. atheism). This cosmogonic lack of an original cause means the universe is ultimately random in some sense, at least on the level of its primordial origins, since the origins in question existed, as explained, without cause. Since everything ultimately originates from these initial origins in one way or another, everything that currently exists is somehow random, since it extends from a primordial origins which existed without cause. One might also call this chance. Furthermore, it was already true from the very origins of the universe that everything that has happened, currently happens, and will happen will transpire, i.e., it was already true that we would have this conversation, whether we have free will or not. It was already true that I would type this paragraph. (See nomological determinism.) So yes, I would assent to the existence of some form of fate, though I also assent to some form of free will. Some of this depends on your semantics.
[6:40:25 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Essentially, the potential for everything to exist has always existed in some form, since everything exists, and since it was already true from the very origins of the universe that everything that exists would at some point exist, fate is at core random, since everything that is destined to happen originates from an innate, uncaused potential for that thing to exist in the first place. Anything which happens was already going to happen, and the very potential for that thing to happen has always existed, which makes whatever happens random by extension, since it emerges from a randomly existent potential.
[6:40:30 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Anyway that's one way to put it.
[6:42:14 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: It's like, both the potential for [X] to happen and the fact [X] would one day happen were already both true from the very origins of the universe.
[6:42:19 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: That's a simple way to put it.
[6:42:43 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: And those origins exist without cause, so it's all ultimately random in some sense.
[6:42:59 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: It doesn't necessarily seem like that to the observer at face value, though.
[6:43:12 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: All these words I've used are also made up, obviously. So there's that.
[6:44:19 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: It definitely looks chaotic on a cosmic scale at even a cursory glance, though one can distinguish between chaotic and random.
[6:44:46 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Theists might not like to admit it, but the universe they believe in is essentially random, since their supposed God exists without cause.
[6:44:54 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: I mean that's like the very definition of random.
[6:44:58 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Or one sense of it, anyhow.
[6:45:21 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Everything extends from God in that cosmology, who exists without cause, so everything is essentially random.
[6:45:35 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: They don't always like to think this, though.
[6:45:45 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: But that's basically what they believe.
[6:47:01 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Look at one version of the Big Bang theory, for example, especially as described in atheistic terms.
[6:47:22 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: One version of it has the initial singularity from which the Big Bang arose simply existed without cause, and expanded by virtue of its own innate forces.
[6:47:28 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: There's another example of a random cosmogony.
[6:47:47 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: It just exists, it just has its own nature, and other things flow from it.
[6:48:16 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: I'm not sure how many people realize every conceivable cosmology starts with a random origins in some form.
[6:48:35 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Think of any cosmology, any theory of the origins of the universe, and you'll see it all starts with something that just so happens to exist.
[6:48:45 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: The whole "the universe comes from nothing" theory is just balderdash.
[6:48:59 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: The very fact it exists implies there was at least an innate potential for it to exist in this form.
[6:49:11 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: I wouldn't call an innate potential nothing.
[6:49:23 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Whatever that original potential might have been.
[6:49:48 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: You'll notice I also didn't claim to know what exactly the origins of the universe are, or even what the true holistic extent of the universe is, or its fate.
[6:50:01 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: But one can characterize the origins of the universe in these general terms nonetheless.
[6:50:43 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: I'd also "paradoxically" say some things can be characterized as non-random in a distinct sense.
[6:51:11 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: I.e., some things occur as a result of deliberate will, such as this sentence, but that will ultimately originates from a random origins of some kind.
[6:51:13 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Think about God.
[6:51:16 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: Think about it.
[6:51:25 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: They described God itself as an innate will.
[6:51:31 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: It is essentially an innate will.
[6:52:02 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: While its future manipulations can be characterized in some sense as non-random, its very existence as a willful entity is random, given its lack of causation.
[6:52:27 PM] Starfish monster 2.0: It may seem a bit paradoxical, taken as a whole.