[05:59:48] <~Happymancer> http://pastebin.com/PPpbuWrA
[05:59:54] <~Happymancer> Beep boop pay attention, thoughts
[06:01:23] <~Happymancer> Music flips from Mother Nature's Son to Daft Punk's Too Long/Steam Machine
[06:01:40] <Gents> Steeaaamm macchhhiiineee
[06:01:52] <@Garlyle> Oh god I'm about to pass out here suddenly
[06:01:52] <@Garlyle> g'night
[06:01:58] <OmegaX[A]> Night, Gar.
[06:02:02] <~Happymancer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM9ViORAW0w
[06:02:07] <~Happymancer> Gabe any thoughts before you go :<
[06:02:09] * @Garlyle (464dd8bc@sux-FCD30E9C.mibbit.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[06:02:12] <~Happymancer> Or to;-;
[06:03:23] <~Happymancer> The two things I see people being like whaaa about are Bows being pretty fuckin awesome, and throwing weapons
[06:05:08] * DiceMaid-9001 is now known as RichterBelmont
[06:05:08] * Hugbox-5000 is now known as Dracula
[06:05:12] * RichterBelmont is now known as DiceMaid-9001
[06:05:12] * Dracula is now known as Hugbox-5000
[06:05:45] <@DamienLunas> whew, I think it's time I get to bed
[06:05:48] <Gents> night
[06:05:49] <@DamienLunas> good night everybody :D
[06:05:51] <Gents> love you <3
[06:06:06] <~Happymancer> FFFF, at least look at it first
[06:06:28] <~Happymancer> Night
[06:06:34] <@DamienLunas> looks dumb. Bunch of random letters. Why are there 3 P's at the start.
[06:07:05] <~Happymancer> Wait did I link the youtube video again
[06:07:08] <&Shay> Bluh bluh I don't like it not one bit
[06:07:12] <&Shay> but I don't like any potential weapon system that isn't "pick x stat, y weapon, and z effect".
[06:07:29] <@DamienLunas> now shay's comment intrigues me and I'm actually going to have to read it.
[06:08:51] <~Happymancer> :I
[06:08:59] <~Happymancer> >I'm gonna be a smartass
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[06:09:12] <~Happymancer> >Haha now I'll look at it now that someone said they don't like it
[06:10:13] <@DamienLunas> I didn't think it was going to be something worth keeping me up past 4:00 AM for.
[06:10:47] <@DamienLunas> but shay made a comment about it and I wondered what she meant
[06:10:51] <@DamienLunas> so I needed to check it out now.
[06:11:56] <~Happymancer> And my comments about it were just blathering
[06:12:03] <~Happymancer> As someone who is actually a dev
[06:12:05] <~Happymancer> Right, ok
[06:12:22] <@DamienLunas> all you said was look at it first.
[06:12:25] <@DamienLunas> Now stop being self-concious and bitchy about your awful idea.
[06:12:46] <&Shay> Damien, maybe you should go sleep now
[06:12:48] <~Happymancer> How about you stop being a snarky ass
[06:13:06] <@DamienLunas> I am, Shay, g'night
[06:13:12] <&Shay> G'night.
[06:15:42] * ~Happymancer lines up a row of fucks he gives
[06:15:48] <~Happymancer> God, yes I'm mad
[06:16:24] * Happymancer sets mode: +b *!*@sux-27BF3D1.hsd1.wa.comcast.net
[06:16:30] * DamienLunas was kicked by Happymancer (Cunt)
[06:16:40] <&Shay> Geeze Happy
[06:16:59] <&Shay> He's being a tired douche, but a ban?
[06:17:06] <~Happymancer> I'm being a tired douche too
[06:17:10] <&Shay> Yes.
[06:17:15] <~Happymancer> And I'm tired of it
[06:17:16] <&Shay> I'll agree too
[06:17:27] <Gents> Lol
[06:17:29] <~Happymancer> 'I never to listen to anyone I just make stupid jokes'
[06:17:35] <~Happymancer> Yeah pretty much
[06:18:52] * Happymancer sets mode: -b *!*@sux-27BF3D1.hsd1.wa.comcast.net
[06:19:15] <~Happymancer> it's half to keep him from rejoining
[06:19:19] <~Happymancer> half in case he wasn't asleep
[06:21:16] <~Happymancer> Night
[06:21:22] <~Happymancer> And Shay
[06:21:31] <&Shay> G'night, Happy
[06:21:34] <~Happymancer> I don't like that system because it takes away half the point of weapon master
[06:21:49] <~Happymancer> And damage needs to vary
[06:22:17] <~Happymancer> Are the classes not provided for with that?
[06:24:29] <~Happymancer> The only classes without a ranged option are Ace and Mystic
[06:24:39] <~Happymancer> If you include Pole as an option for not direct melee
[06:24:57] <&Shay> I'ma just say it. I'll gladly talk about this tomorrow, but I'm tired as well and not nearly eloquent at the moment.
[06:25:05] <~Happymancer> 'lright
[06:25:07] <~Happymancer> night
[06:25:11] <&Shay> G'night
[06:32:31] * Anise (Anise@sux-DB86F51D.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
[06:34:24] * Anise (Anise@sux-DB86F51D.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #pokeymans
[06:49:42] <castfromhp> Hey Happy
[06:49:48] <castfromhp> If you're still here, I do have some comments/questions about this.
[06:53:06] <~Happymancer> And those would be
[06:53:41] <castfromhp> In general, I don't like that the ACs are really high. It makes Weapon Master with its AC 2 much much better/necessary if you want an arms based trainer. Which I know is somewhat the point, but they'd be so much crazy better at bows than, say, a ranger that it kinda nulls the cool perk of rangers getting bows.
[06:54:27] <~Happymancer> Bump them all down 2, or 1 in the 4/5's case
[06:54:29] <~Happymancer> What then
[06:54:45] <castfromhp> Mmm that could work, yes.
[06:54:58] <castfromhp> I'm iffy on some of the math, like blade is barely behind blunt in terms of average damage.
[06:55:11] <castfromhp> And you will see more consistent damage from blade due to the constant +16 vs constant +10.
[06:55:31] <~Happymancer> That's why blunt is higher AC
[06:55:34] * Anise (Anise@sux-DB86F51D.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit (Ping timeout)
[06:55:37] <~Happymancer> more reckless
[06:56:11] <castfromhp> No that's what I mean. Blunt is much worse for the 10% AC trade off. 29 avg damage on blade vs 29.5 on blunt doesn't really make the extra AC worth it.
[06:56:27] <~Happymancer> oh
[06:57:17] <castfromhp> The more obvious example I think though is short blade vs fist, where I think I'd prefer fist in all circumstances despite it having lower prereqs.
[06:57:18] <~Happymancer> Bumped the additional damage up to 4/9/14
[06:57:52] <castfromhp> Higher average damage (26.5 on fist vs 23 on sb), higher max damage (34 vs 32), lower prereqs.
[06:57:55] <~Happymancer> Yeah I'll be honest, I just made that damage way too high on purpose
[06:58:01] <~Happymancer> I like Fist :<
[06:58:07] <castfromhp> Haha
[06:58:29] <~Happymancer> And I'm not lowering Bow below 6
[06:58:34] <~Happymancer> Considering that is where it started
[06:58:35] <~Happymancer> and it's fine
[06:59:03] <castfromhp> In AC? Well, okay, but it just makes me :< a bit thinking that a WM is soooo much better at bow than, say, Ranger/Survivalist is.
[06:59:04] <~Happymancer> Blunt can stay at 7, since all those classes have the option of the other weapon
[06:59:30] <~Happymancer> Except they lose a feature on it
[06:59:38] <~Happymancer> Err wait no they took out that clause in WM
[06:59:52] <~Happymancer> Or is having User still required for weapon of choice
[07:00:07] <~Happymancer> Nope
[07:00:08] <castfromhp> It isn't.
[07:00:14] <castfromhp> You don't need any previous levels.
[07:00:32] <~Happymancer> six isn't any different than old weapons
[07:00:34] <~Happymancer> Where they were all at six
[07:00:40] <~Happymancer> and it's only 1 up from current
[07:00:59] <castfromhp> And Master's Expertise is much, much better than Survivalist's AC compensation feat for bows.
[07:01:18] <~Happymancer> Then we change that instead?
[07:01:19] <castfromhp> Since in most cases there won't be 4 speed evasion or double team evasion or what have you to nullify.
[07:02:40] <~Happymancer> Also you're forgetting that humans use only speed evasion
[07:02:53] <~Happymancer> So a dex based martial artist would have no evasion
[07:02:56] <~Happymancer> against that bow
[07:03:14] <castfromhp> Oh? I thought dex evasion was different from speed evasion. My bad.
[07:03:28] <~Happymancer> Dex functions as speed evasion
[07:03:48] <~Happymancer> It is applied to all attacks and also no damage attacks
[07:03:56] <castfromhp> Right.
[07:04:29] <~Happymancer> So
[07:04:31] <~Happymancer> What about this
[07:04:51] <~Happymancer> For fist
[07:04:57] <~Happymancer> hrrm
[07:05:21] <Gents> Everyone gets it
[07:05:31] <~Happymancer> already in there
[07:05:49] <~Happymancer> I'm trying to think of something to make up for low damage
[07:06:10] <castfromhp> I mean, you will never not have your fist weapon with you for one.
[07:06:36] <Gents> Just make fist user into a basic attack basically?
[07:07:20] <~Happymancer> No
[07:07:24] <~Happymancer> We must have kenshiros
[07:07:58] <castfromhp> Well, MT does that stuff IIRC
[07:08:08] <~Happymancer> Fiiine
[07:08:11] <~Happymancer> Here what about this
[07:08:25] <~Happymancer> http://pastebin.com/TUn8t3YD
[07:09:20] <~Happymancer> For short blade
[07:09:33] <~Happymancer> Is that fine?
[07:09:43] <castfromhp> Oh, on the other hand for my blunt vs blade comment, keep in mind that WMs don't feel that AC penalty at all when they compare using those two weapons.
[07:10:00] <~Happymancer> That's for just WMs
[07:10:05] <castfromhp> May be cause for Master's Expertise to be "reduce AC by 3" instead of "lol AC is always 2".
[07:10:38] <castfromhp> Or reduce by 2.
[07:11:50] <~Happymancer> That would work
[07:12:44] <Gents> -3 makes blade at Weapon's Master leve;
[07:13:01] <castfromhp> Makes fist at AC 1 though.
[07:13:20] <castfromhp> But I guess 1 is always a miss anyway, or is that not a rule anymore?
[07:14:43] <~Happymancer> Which is a miss?
[07:14:55] <~Happymancer> Or do you mean always hit
[07:14:58] <castfromhp> Rolling a 1, even if you reduce AC to 1 or less.
[07:15:11] <castfromhp> ie with compoundeyes or what have you
[07:15:15] <~Happymancer> Right that's a rule I think
[07:16:26] <~Happymancer> For the stat prereqs do you think thats fine?
[07:16:32] <~Happymancer> Every class provided for?
[07:16:53] <castfromhp> I'm thinkin' I'm thinkin'...
[07:16:59] <&Shay> Oh god I really must be tired.
[07:16:59] <castfromhp> What was wrong with keeping them uniform though?
[07:17:14] <~Happymancer> They weren't uniform
[07:17:20] <~Happymancer> And there aren't 6 or 12
[07:17:23] <&Shay> I just heard a song, thought "that was catchy, who's it by" and it turned out to be the Backstreet Boys
[07:17:33] <~Happymancer> Before thrown was int/dex
[07:17:41] <~Happymancer> I just added pole and blade into the mix
[07:17:48] <~Happymancer> INT is the only stat without a weapon to itself
[07:17:51] <castfromhp> Huh I thought every weapon was 15/17/19 now for stat prereqs.
[07:17:56] <~Happymancer> OH
[07:17:57] <~Happymancer> THAT
[07:18:21] <~Happymancer> No I think having different skill levels for weapons as a secondary balancing measure was needed
[07:18:26] <~Happymancer> They were
[07:18:35] <~Happymancer> I meant the stat spread
[07:20:41] <castfromhp> Is it? I mean, for example, pole has reach and all but I don't think it's better enough than blade to warrant 3 more levels of stat for mastery. It even does less damage on average even when factoring in the 5% greater chance to hit.
[07:20:46] <~Happymancer> The ones that were made higher were, Chain, Pole, bow, and throwing
[07:21:04] <~Happymancer> Except you're not actually in melee
[07:21:15] <~Happymancer> For organized combat realize you can attack from behind someone
[07:21:20] <~Happymancer> Or past an enemy
[07:21:53] <~Happymancer> Chain has the trapping, bow and throwing are ranged, and pole is reach
[07:22:12] <~Happymancer> Lowering pole by 1 or 2 would be fine, but the others I think are fine
[07:22:22] <~Happymancer> Bow could have some room to come down if pole does though
[07:22:41] <castfromhp> Ehhhh 23 dex is a bit high, but bows do pretty high damage in this setup.
[07:22:52] <Kaingaskhan> Dat ending for Bastion
[07:22:58] <~Happymancer> inorite
[07:23:01] <~Happymancer> Which did you pick
[07:23:02] <castfromhp> Honestly, just making it two tiers, and setting them all at 21 or 22, I would like better.
[07:23:17] <Kaingaskhan> Saved Zulf, evacuated
[07:23:40] <~Happymancer> Best ending
[07:23:54] <~Happymancer> Cast
[07:24:00] <~Happymancer> That screws with a ton of features
[07:24:07] <castfromhp> huh? No no
[07:24:13] <castfromhp> I mean for the higher tier, set them at 21 or 22.
[07:24:18] <castfromhp> For the lower, set it to 19 as before.
[07:24:23] <~Happymancer> two tiers
[07:24:30] <~Happymancer> huh
[07:24:40] <~Happymancer> What did you mean, I thought you meant take out proficiency
[07:24:42] <castfromhp> Sorry, I'm being unclear it seems.
[07:24:58] <castfromhp> I mean, have a set of weapons that takes approximately 15/17/19 as now for prereqs.
[07:25:00] <castfromhp> Ex: blade, blunt, etc
[07:25:19] <castfromhp> Have the set with higher prereqs (pole, throwing, bow) all be set to the same prereq for mastery.
[07:25:25] <castfromhp> Instead of this 21-23 spread that there is now.
[07:25:28] <Gents> Wait if fist user is gifted to all why does it require 12 str?
[07:25:43] <~Happymancer> uniformity
[07:25:53] <~Happymancer> replaced with an x
[07:26:18] <castfromhp> One other thing you should consider is that a lot of these damage rolls, most of them in fact, aren't seen anywhere in move damage and though that doesn't matter from a mechanical perspective, it is a bit clunky and makes these things harder for players and GMs to remember.
[07:26:43] <~Happymancer> I did remember that
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[07:26:56] <~Happymancer> I just don't care, I'd rather have something like this than two sets of damage
[07:28:17] <castfromhp> I dunno, it just seems like outside of WM there was never really much reason to make a very developed weapon system in this way vs just having the melee vs ranged split and fluffing weapons however.
[07:29:22] <castfromhp> While all stats/classes are catered to from a mechanical perspective, it's frustrating to, for example, want to play an Ace who uses a simple club or baton as a weapon and finding that mechanically infeasible.
[07:29:23] <~Happymancer> I did the two different prereqs
[07:29:30] <~Happymancer> but kept bow at the top
[07:29:37] <~Happymancer> with 15/19/23
[07:29:48] <~Happymancer> 21 is just too low for that damage
[07:29:57] <castfromhp> Weapon variation just doesn't matter enough to anyone who isn't a WM to make it worth fleshing out different weapons and tying certain stats to certain weapons only.
[07:30:23] <~Happymancer> Then here
[07:30:38] <castfromhp> Whereas that limitation DOES kill a lot of concepts and fluff things and, at the moment, kinda results in GMs just going "okay, refluff your weapon as x".
[07:30:42] <~Happymancer> You use STR, CON, or DEX for weapons, pick one of the three and use whatever weapon
[07:30:54] <~Happymancer> because I'm not going to have a system where you can use an INT sword
[07:31:12] <Gents> ^
[07:31:17] <castfromhp> I actually really don't mind that.
[07:31:25] <paranoiasavedthecat> Not even if you're JUST A REALLY SMART DUELIST?!
[07:31:32] <castfromhp> And one of the first things I noticed about PTA was "huh, CHA makes me better at knife fighting apparently".
[07:31:36] <~Happymancer> Doesn't matter if your dex and str are shit
[07:31:46] <~Happymancer> bluffing
[07:31:58] <castfromhp> You know what I mean.
[07:32:25] <paranoiasavedthecat> Happymancer: So what if your intelligence is so high you can accurately predict your opponents next five moves like in a chess game and exploit them to your advantage? :3c
[07:32:38] <~Happymancer> You still have to be able to react fast enough for it to matter
[07:32:43] <~Happymancer> Or be strong enough to parry
[07:33:04] <~Happymancer> Doesn't matter if they cut straight through your guard and you knew they would
[07:33:19] <paranoiasavedthecat> That's why you took that half-step back three seconds ago.
[07:33:29] <castfromhp> But really it's just from a perspective of someone keeping their character concept, if they have enough INT to wield a polearm well, for whatever the fuck reason INT does that, it feels weird to say "nuh uh you're a total tard when punching sorry".
[07:33:44] <paranoiasavedthecat> That way when they cut through your guard you were already sidestepping away from the blow. :p
[07:33:58] <castfromhp> If we're using nonsensical stats anyway, I'd rather not tie them to particular weapons and just instead let people pick as fitting their concept.
[07:34:31] <~Happymancer> And it's not goddamn nonsensical
[07:34:50] <~Happymancer> This is the best way to spread out stats so all are combat capable, but different still
[07:35:11] <castfromhp> By nonsensical I mean, "these shouldn't be combat stats", not that the spread is bad.
[07:35:11] <~Happymancer> Going, eh fuck it whatever, and just applying whatever stats to whatever weapon
[07:35:21] <~Happymancer> What about finding a new weapon, use whatever goddamn stat you want?
[07:35:27] <~Happymancer> Only on certain weapons?
[07:35:44] <~Happymancer> What about WM, what about gaining proficiency in a dex sword but not a dex club
[07:36:04] <Kaingaskhan> I thought people suggested something like that before
[07:36:18] <~Happymancer> And it got shot down
[07:36:28] <castfromhp> Well, what's wrong with that though? At the core whenever someone complains about something like cap spec not getting bows or something of that sort, the complaint isn't about "I want my character to mechanically be better so I want x" it's "my character concept does x" and if, say, an ace is limited to never ever being able to use clubs well...
[07:36:32] <paranoiasavedthecat> Or you could just use derived stats.
[07:36:33] <castfromhp> Well, that cuts out on a lot of potential concepts.
[07:36:48] <paranoiasavedthecat> And avoid all this "one stat for combat" nonsense. :V
[07:36:57] <castfromhp> Or a non-WM MA using polearms, for example.
[07:36:59] <~Happymancer> Bullshit, if you want to fucking use a weapon then take the goddamned feature
[07:37:14] <~Happymancer> You're just fucking complaining if you act like you can't use it because you aren't gifted it
[07:37:21] <castfromhp> Okay, what about the Ace example?
[07:37:27] <~Happymancer> Cap specs don't get bows gifted, boohoo
[07:37:31] <castfromhp> Is an Ace really going to get to 19 WIS just for blunt mastery?
[07:37:51] <castfromhp> When the easier option is "hey why don't I just refluff blade to blunt because it shouldn't matter anyway"?
[07:38:12] <~Happymancer> Yes because having a goddamn club and a rapier are totally the same
[07:38:18] <~Happymancer> This makes complete sense
[07:38:18] <castfromhp> That's not the point.
[07:38:22] <~Happymancer> It is the point
[07:38:31] <~Happymancer> You want weapons to be, whatever the fuck the player wants
[07:38:48] <~Happymancer> Losing out any point in even having different weapons
[07:38:49] <castfromhp> You're missing what I'm saying, which is that trainers shouldn't be tied to a weapon type based on what their stats are, if the weapons are going to be using stats that don't make a lick of sense for combat anyway.
[07:39:02] <~Happymancer> Why not just say, I hit them with my 5 foot long dick for mastery damage
[07:39:22] <~Happymancer> because mechanically it would be the exact same as any other weapon
[07:39:28] <Kaingaskhan> Happy, man, you need to cool it on the increasingly childish arguments there.
[07:39:52] <castfromhp> Why not make all weapons be able to be qualified for through the physical stats and make the INT/WIS/CHA requirements a secondary option, if you're really concerned about making everyone have access to some sort of weapon?
[07:39:54] <~Happymancer> I've already stated everything I goddamn can, I've been up an hour and a half after I said I was going to bed
[07:40:04] <~Happymancer> And he keeps arguing for a point that doesn't amke any fucking sense
[07:40:24] <~Happymancer> It's like I'm talking to Helpful Comrade bitching about how rangers need to be wis based so he can have a druid
[07:40:26] <castfromhp> That way most concepts that SHOULD be able to into weapons will be able to grab the weapon they like from a fluff perspective, and everyone else is being given something that is more than they should have anyway (Breeder and Researcher)
[07:40:31] <Kaingaskhan> Well go to bed, there's no use arguing if you're sleep deprived, no meaningful concepts will be agreed upon by either side
[07:40:51] <~Happymancer> Hey Cast look
[07:40:57] <castfromhp> Ouch happy. You really think that's how this is?
[07:40:58] <~Happymancer> >Lacking WIS Ace grabs a club
[07:41:00] <~Happymancer> >Uses the club
[07:41:04] <~Happymancer> >Puts points in WIS
[07:41:07] <~Happymancer> >Gets better in club
[07:41:12] <~Happymancer> WOW FLUFF AND MECHANICS WORKING TOGETHER
[07:41:13] <castfromhp> You think I'm the only one who doesn't think this way about weapons?
[07:41:16] <castfromhp> *does
[07:41:21] <~Happymancer> And yes it is exactly how it seems to me
[07:41:33] <castfromhp> Except that's completely unintuitive for an Ace build.
[07:41:40] <Kaingaskhan> And then he's a pretty horrible ace because he put the equivalent of 21 points in a stat he's only using for a weapon
[07:41:48] <~Happymancer> Then fucking deal with it
[07:41:51] <castfromhp> And they shouldn't need to jump through that hoop for something so elementary from a character concept perspective.
[07:41:58] <~Happymancer> you want to fluff something like that up, then goddamn deal with the drawbacks
[07:42:10] <castfromhp> I don't see why the drawbacks are necessary is the thing.
[07:42:28] <castfromhp> Why is an Ace arbitrarily going to be bad at blunt weapons?
[07:42:44] <castfromhp> Why not make blunt only STR and have Psychics be the ones arbitrarily bad at using them?
[07:43:16] <castfromhp> Why not make it CON so rangers are the ones bad at them? The point is, the stat to weapon distribution is arbitrary, and that just makes for a silly rule that makes character concepts harder to build for.
[07:43:20] <~Happymancer> Because then you'd complain about psychics not using clubs
[07:43:26] <castfromhp> That's exactly my point.
[07:43:34] <~Happymancer> Because you'd complain
[07:43:35] <~Happymancer> Exactly
[07:43:37] <castfromhp> None of those complaints would happen if this weren't the way weapons were set up.
[07:43:54] <castfromhp> If you could choose a weapon to fit your character concept, you wouldn't have to deal with the way they are arbitrarily assigned a stat now.
[07:44:02] <~Happymancer> And none of some random argument I could make up would happen if we didn't have classes, instead rolling for random features to gain
[07:44:05] <castfromhp> Is there an actual good reason blunt is WIS or pole is INT?
[07:44:26] <paranoiasavedthecat> > not having feats that swap primary stats
[07:44:28] <castfromhp> But there is a reason to have classes. There is a reason why Researcher uses WIS and INT.
[07:44:39] <paranoiasavedthecat> > have had this since 3.0 DND and continued through Pathfinder
[07:44:46] <Kaingaskhan> Happy, just go to bed, your arguments are getting less and less coherent. :B
[07:44:47] <~Happymancer> but what if...
[07:44:49] <castfromhp> There is not a reason why swinging a club requires copious amounts of WIS.
[07:44:52] <~Happymancer> But what if
[07:44:54] <~Happymancer> Why not...
[07:44:55] <~Happymancer> why not
[07:44:58] <~Happymancer> I DONT GIVE A SHIT
[07:45:47] <~Happymancer> What if I want a class that isn't based on an arbitrary set of stat restrictions, well if we didn't have stats  tied into classes at all this wouldn't be a problem
[07:45:51] <Kaingaskhan> You're making yourself look extremely bad by handling this in a childish fashion. Really man, just take my advice and go get some sleep.
[07:46:07] <Gents> Just make feats for the other stats
[07:46:32] <~Happymancer> I don't give two fucks what Cast or DL or whoever the fuck thinks about it
[07:46:35] <castfromhp> The stat restrictions for classes make sense. Those for weapons don't. That's the core of the problem. No one would complain about their low INT char not getting Researcher because it makes sense you need INT for that.
[07:47:04] <castfromhp> They would rightly complain that they don't have the uberwis needed for wielding a club though, because that doesn't make sense that WIS is needed for that act.
[07:47:17] <castfromhp> But yes, please go to sleep. :<
[07:47:22] <~Happymancer> Fuck you
[07:47:27] <~Happymancer> Don't :< me
[07:47:45] <Kaingaskhan> Happy, stop being a raging manchild and just go to bed.
[07:47:52] <~Happymancer> Oh I've been talking for straight on an hour sorry :<
[07:48:25] <Kaingaskhan> Shooooo
[07:48:48] <Gents> You shoo kain
[07:48:50] <Gents> LM
[07:49:18] <&Shay> Happy, sleep
[07:49:31] <&Shay> this is exactly why I wanted to wait until tomorrow to talk about it