Discord talking about the cringe essay

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/753138181293211708/783032898772009020/1606759552898.png

[19:15] Ikaaaaa: “I don’t like youtubers so stop trying to collab with them, you’re making hololive look bad”
[19:15] Ikaaaaa: Pretty much
[19:16] Coptin-N: What is that comment even about? What is "*that* culture"?
[19:17] Coptin-N: What YouTubers has she even collabed with? What video was the comment written on?
[19:17] Coptin-N: I am confys.
[19:17] Ikaaaaa: Anitubers
[19:17] Neutron: Anitubers and how she constantly brings of critikal.
[19:18] Ikaaaaa: She wants to collab with critikal
[19:18] Neutron: And she said she'd be up to collab with vshojo
[19:18] Neutron: That comment is 100% right
[19:18] Ikaaaaa: She might run into issues with the letter
[19:18] Ikaaaaa: Latter
[19:18] Ikaaaaa: Because of project melody
[19:18] Neutron: I'm glad people are saying something, hope she reads the comments
[19:19] Ikaaaaa: And also the bad stigma nyanners has among some of the vtuber community
[19:19] Coptin-N: Who is vshojo?
[19:19] Ronya: seems like a non issue since cover has to sign off on those collabs anyway
[19:19] Coptin-N: Wait? What stigma is there surrounding Nyanners?
[19:19] Algebria: It's Nyanners/Melody/Ironmouse and co
[19:19] Neutron: They have told her no about Critikal before
[19:19]<3 Zuwa: ahh i knew it somebody will be saying that type
[19:19] McKluffin: Recently formed group of twitch-based vtubers.
[19:19] Neutron: But she won't stop talking about him
[19:19] Coptin-N: What's wrong with Ironmouse?
[19:19] Neutron: And mentioning it
[19:20] Ikaaaaa: Nothing wrong with ironmouse iirc
The whole crew is a lot more vulgar than hololive though
[19:20] Neutron: She needs to seperate her hololive vtuber career from her personal likes
[19:20]<3 Zuwa: so we are having white knight issue ?
[19:20] Bag of slime: uh
[19:20] Bag of slime: lol
[19:20] Neutron: The white knight issue is people not telling her to do things like this
[19:20] Bag of slime: not to yab but ties to nyanners isn't probably a problem?
[19:20]<3 Zuwa: yeah
[19:21] Coptin-N: Sounds like it...
"Nooo, you mustn't collab with just anyone. You must remain puuuure!"
[19:21] Neutron: That's not it
[19:21] Ikaaaaa: Not really, there’s controversy surrounding some of them
[19:21]<3 Zuwa: i see no prob but i think i kinda get it they dont want a backlash from it
[19:21] Bag of slime: someone was nyanners good friend
[19:21] Bag of slime: like
[19:21] Bag of slime: :x
[19:21]<3 Zuwa: dont
[19:21] Algebria: It's a dumb comment. Hololive is whatever the girls make of it
[19:21] Neutron: You have Gura and Amelia activity trying to avoid stuff like this
[19:21] McKluffin: Coco was denied permission to collab with Melody before, that'd being what she does on other platforms that Cover doesn't wish to associate with.
[19:21] Neutron: While Mori is constantly egging it on
[19:21] Neutron: Over and over
[19:21]<3 Zuwa: yesh and its up to cover if its a go or not
[19:22] Ronya: yes Amelia "Ground pound your mom" Watson
[19:22] Algebria: And if Cover allows it, that's fine, it's not up to us to decide who she should and shouldn't collab with
[19:22] Neutron: You're actively missing the point
[19:22] Bag of slime: Sorry wazu just weird purity stuff about "well my favorite would never" bruh your favorite got famous for it
[19:22] Bag of slime: not you
[19:22] Bag of slime: you know who is saying that
[19:22]<3 Zuwa: and also the trash taste collab have a go signal from the  cover considering there are staff on site
[19:22] Algebria: Realistically, if Calli collabed with Critical or vshojo, nothing would change, everything would be fine
[19:23] McKluffin: Frankly, Calli has every right to discuss it until she's given a concrete yes or no from Cover. Same applies for her desire to play/stream Persona 3, FromSoft games, etc.
[19:25]<3 Zuwa: ah wrong response for that lmao
[19:25]<3 Zuwa: wrong phrasing eithere
[19:26] Rensin: uh whats happening?
[19:26] lamyflu addict: i'm here wondering where they took that comment from :LunaGalaxyBrain:
[19:26]<3 Zuwa: probably from a clip
[19:26] McKluffin: Given the membership emblem, it's from one of her streams.
[19:26] Algebria: Discussing the comment posted above and discussing collabs
[19:27] Zorglub: Someone brought up VShoujo (Melody, Ironmouse ect) in the chat and Calli said she was open to collab, causing people who don't like them to get mad
[19:27] Rensin: oh
[19:27]<3 Zuwa: yeah..
[19:27]<3 Zuwa: its probably teh summary of it
[19:27] Bag of slime: my hope is that every vtuber does literally what they want to and any weird incel who thinks they can tell a celebrity who they can hang out with just gets ignored lol
[19:27] Rensin: imo she can do whatever she want if cover accepts it
[19:28]<3 Zuwa: yeah it stilll up to higher ups to approve on it
[19:28] Ikaaaaa: It’s all up to cover whether or not it’ll be allowed
[19:28] McKluffin: Right, being open to the idea isn't her saying or doing anything that makes Hololive look bad.
[19:28] Algebria: Even if the collabs happen, the image of hololive isn't going to change
[19:29] Ronya: i think with hololive getting bigger and vtubers becoming more popular everywhere some ppl might want hololive to stay in a bubble but thats all Cover's decision on what collabs happen
[19:29] Bag of slime: this guy probably: "hey calli, I know im just one member out of 730,000 members but..."
[19:29]<3 Zuwa: blame it to the hard core idol keeping image fans they are the minority casung it
[19:29] Rensin: yeah
[19:29] Ikaaaaa: It’s not really the image fans, it’s people who don’t like certain streamers
[19:29] McKluffin: The EN branch is already a pioneering effort into new territory for Cover/Hololive as it is, there are individuals that really don't like anything changing from the "status quo".
[19:29] Bag of slime: look at haachama
[19:30] Bag of slime: does she even ask managers
[19:30] Zorglub: I'm kind of indifferent to it. I like Melody but acknowledge most of stuff she doesisn't really suitable for a collab. I don't know too much about the rest of them. I think Calli was just being polite rather than expressing any active interest in collabing.
[19:30] Ronya: yea the other person was saying that they should keep what they like separate from their vtuber person which no one  in hololive actually does
[19:30] K-ONGamingHD: Umm shouldn't we take this to #holo-chat ?
[19:30] Algebria: Looking at the comment posted above, their excuse is "hololive's image," but yeah it just boils down to not liking the individual
[19:30] Bag of slime: back on calli topic: i like the direction calli's taken honestly its a really fresh character in the hololive group
[19:30]<3 Zuwa: ah yeah
[19:30] KulapiK: This shouldn't be taken anywhere, it's a stupid conversation
[19:31]<3 Zuwa: she is pionering it
[19:31] Bag of slime: Like, she's not even necessarily out of character, she's a rapper from the literal underground
[19:31] lamyflu addict: :LunaGalaxyBrain:
[19:31] Zorglub: isn't holochat just a bunch of jumbled random conversations? Why do people always want to try to discuss one specific topic in the middle of a bunch of other conversations?
[19:31] Ikaaaaa: Her trash taste reach out for cover to have some sort of a relationship with BookWalker/kadokawa
[19:31] Ikaaaaa: Now they all have BookWalker sponsorships
[19:32] Bag of slime: the closest we had to edgy before was coco and she's definitely edgy but its not smooth underground rap god edgy its
[19:32] Ronya: also her answering questions she has no control over i don't think she would answer "no i would never want to collab with them"
[19:32] Bag of slime: asacoco
[19:33]<3 Zuwa: because its the ch specific for it believe it or it is like that
[19:35] Rensin: nvmd
[19:36] K-ONGamingHD: Would Yagoo really be the type of guy to tell melody and them to fuck off though when it comes to collabs?
[19:37] Rensin: Not really
[19:37]<3 Zuwa: dunno mate
[19:37]<3 Zuwa: its just become like that
[19:37] KulapiK: They already did
[19:37] McKluffin: Only example of that would be Coco expressing interest in collaborating with Melody and it being denied, so she seemed to drop the subject after that.
[19:37] McKluffin: But, that was before Vshojo, it's hard to say what they'll say regarding the individuals/group now.
[19:38] Ikaaaaa: Melody has the stigma of being a “sex worker”
[19:38] McKluffin: Cover doesn't want to associate with someone that creates adult content, even if it's not the focus of her twitch channel.

19:38] Ikuuuuuuuu: That’s why they rejected her
[19:38] Rinsen: if i was in that situation i will take countermeasures and might accept it if they agree on things such as not being too vulgar and such
[19:38] TheOfficialK-ONGamingHD: Ok what about iron mousey?
[19:39] Zorglub: It's not just they rejected a collab, they told Coco not to bring her up again.
[19:39] <3 WaZu <3: ah yeah true that what happened
[19:39] <3 WaZu <3: they just shut down that topic about
[19:39] <3 WaZu <3: ity
[19:39] Rainie: that why i don't see it as a problem if Calli asks she will be told w/e and then move on lol
[19:40] McKuffin: We don't have any official word on what consideration they have regarding what is now Vshojo, since it includes Melody, that may very well make the odds slim to none.
[19:40] <3 WaZu <3: yeah.. well lets wait for calli on what move she will do about her collabs outside of hololive
[19:40] McKuffin: It's not common for an official answer to come during the stream it was asked in.
[19:41] McKuffin: Unless they've got staff on site, like with the podcast.
[19:41] <3 WaZu <3: i am sure cover need adjust on there en market and supply its demand on its entertainment
[19:41] <3 WaZu <3: welll see more of it in the near future welll later GN moona just ended so Gn
[19:43] Rinsen: i think they decided to shut that topic because if they were to do something like that during time, the chances of getting hate comments are high and if the hate is way more than expected they might end up retiring in the worst case scenario
[19:43] McKuffin: Calli hasn't been behaving in a matter that flies in the face of Cover or other Hololive members. Each part of EN has their own ways of handling things and answering or ignoring questions and comments aimed to stir up trouble.
[19:53] master117: What song did calli nearly die during again?
[19:53] master117: THe footcramps
[19:54] CyborgUnleashed: I think it was Skynut with the foot cramps
[19:54] Zorglub: Whatever the Critical song was, that one
[19:55] Zorglub: Cuz she said he got a foot cramp too
[19:55] master117: It was skynut
[19:55] master117: thanks a lot
[20:12] somejapaneseName: I scrolled back 100 comments to see what the fuss was about, I want that minute of my life back, some people really are entitled little shits posting cringe like that
[20:13] Zia: You better not read her last member stream comments if you didn't like that ahah
[20:13] somejapaneseName: I very rarely read comments or chat. I do read stream chats on here though. The difference is pretty dramatic.
[20:14] Zia: Well, I usually read comments on t2+ member videos
[20:14] Zia: Because it's mostly from people who genuinely care and put some thoughts into writing those
[20:16] Zia: I don't think it's that big of deal, but it's fine to discuss at least
It's not like anything happened yet anyway, it's pretty harmless
[20:16] somejapaneseName: "Caring" to the point where they think it's their job to tell the vtuber what is best for their or Hololive's image is what makes it cringe
[20:16] somejapaneseName: Jesus christ they have a tiny window into Hololive and think this somehow makes them experts
[20:16] Zia: Some are cringe, but not all comments are like that
[20:17] Zia: did you check those ?
[20:17] Zia: it's worth reading I think, if you have the membership, some points are a bit stupid, some are worth paying attention
[20:18] somejapaneseName: I did go and read the ones from the latest member's stream from four hours ago and I saw several of these cringe comments yes
It did not brighten up my day but I hope Calli is confident enough to know that she and Cover knows their shit at this point
[20:19] Zia: She said herself that not all criticism is hate in a recent stream, and that she's aware of it
[20:19] Zia: so yeah, I'm confident she will know what to take from it and what to ignore, I'm pretty optimistic on that regard, she's a grown woman
[20:23] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: feel like some like to act like the talents were born yesterday and need us viewers to guide their every decision. Like they don't have Cover supporting them already
[20:24] Zia: Well who you collab with is mostly a talk between the talent and cover, obviously
[20:24] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: of course
[20:24] McKuffin: I feel like the comment that started this discussion comes from one that thinks they know far more than they actually do, especially when using her gen-mates as an example of "actively avoiding" anything.
[20:24] somejapaneseName: Yeah that was the worst part. Like how the f would they know if they are "actively avoiding" a certain "culture"
[20:25] somejapaneseName: Which they are too damn pussy to even call out by name, they just wrote "that" culture as if the very mention of it will cause the ancient ones to appear and devour our souls
[20:25] Rinsen: the bigger the popularity of hololives gets, the more those kinds of cringy comments and hate comes we just have to get used to it ig
[20:25] Zia: Yeah I mean remember last Gura stream ahah.. with that celeb coming in to SC
[20:25] McKuffin: Perhaps Ao-chan was mid-brain pat so they forgot what to call it?
[20:25] lamyflu addict: lol i was hella confused too. like what culture are ya talking about???
[20:25] Tornado: While I also disagree with the comment posted, it does not make it less valid than other criticisms or feedback
[20:26] somejapaneseName: Oh, I disagree. Criticism which is founded in ignorance of the subject matter is most certainly invalid
[20:26] Zia: Well that's for the reader to judge
[20:27] Zia: not like it's a swarm of 1000 comments anyway
[20:27] Tornado: It is still someone's fairly well written opinion even if we disagree with it, its not directed at us nor should we decide how she interprets the feedback
[20:28] Zia: You can be sure the staff usually check feedback and talk about it with the talent, be it relevant feedback or not, that's part of the work
[20:28] Zia: I'm sure it'll be fine
[20:28] McKuffin: Yeah, it's not something she's addressed as it is.
[20:29] somejapaneseName: Like what is this bullshit lol
"HoloLive has always been reasonably separate from the rest of the Internet and its particular... culture."
WHAT

[20:29] somejapaneseName: There is NO such thing as one Internet culture and if there was, Hololive is most certainly part of it
[20:29] Zia: The only moment it starts becoming an issue is when people start bothering the talent themselves about it
Discussing it between ourself is harmless and I think, not a bad thing
[20:29] McKuffin: And I highly doubt it'd be impactful enough to make her stop, that'd be up to management to discuss with her and come to an official decision, one way or the other.
[20:29] somejapaneseName: This is just the most pretentious ass bullshit way to say "I don't like youtuber X, don't collab with them"
[20:30] Rinsen: What makes hololive different is that the girls are doing what they actually want to without much restrictions
[20:30] Zia: I'm sure they can sort out what is stupid and entilted and what is relevant don't worry
[20:30] Zia: Different from what? Hololive has more restrictions compared to other vtubers agencies, not saying it's a bad thing tho
[20:31] Rinsen: wait fr?
[20:31] Tornado: Cover still has final say over that sort of thing but that doesn't mean someone should not be allowed to state an opinion though
[20:31] Zia: Well I don't wanna go off topic too much, but check the term & conditions of niji or voms
[20:31] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: they do have to ask permission for any game they play after all
that's partially why gura can't play any rhythm games rn
[20:31] Ikuuuuuuuu: Cover is a lot more restrictive
[20:31] Zia: hololive is the closest to a talent agency is term of handling what the talents can or cannot do
[20:32] Zia: it's not always a bad thing mind you
[20:32] Zia: it's just part of a whole
[20:32] Zia: like nijis are allowed to be political etc. if they want, they have videos of people talking about lgtb etc etc
[20:32] McKuffin: Well, music licensing is a hellscape to deal with, that makes most rhythm games terrible to get permissions for.
[20:33] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: yea
[20:33] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: shame cuz she seemed like she was havin tons of fun playing em
[20:33] Rinsen: hold up i think i will have to rethink to myself and research a bit more i am still pretty new here
[20:33] Zia: no issue
[20:33] Zia: it's a civil talk ahah
[20:34] Zia: Compared to actual idol agencies, hololive is much more open minded and gives more freedom
Compared to other vtubers agencies, hololive has more rules
[20:34] Zia: that's about it
[20:34] McKuffin: Pretty sure we'll see other rhythm games from Gura, if not the other talents, in time. They're still sorting out what the Sega contract applies to and allows for.
[20:34] Ikuuuuuuuu: The main appeal of Niji is “real people streaming “
[20:34] Zia: Muse dash permissions... Gura...
[20:35] Zorglub: Which is weird, because you know.....Vtubers arent as real as real streamer...
[20:35] Zia: It's complicated, for sure!
[20:35] Zia: and it's nothing as long as it's just talk and doesn't start to bother the vtuber
[20:36] McKuffin: In regards to Niji, they mostly went for more "realistic" designs of the avatars whilst groups like Hololive don't hold back on fantasy themes.
[20:36] Tornado: The only thing I don't agree with is the tiered membership streams but not much to do about that at this point
[20:36] McKuffin: Whether one group behaves more candid or more as a guided character, probably differs from talent to talent.
[20:36] Zia: There will be NijiEN too so it will be interesting to see the difference in approach
[20:36] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: i was today years old when i found out different tiers get different access lul
[20:37] Zia: I'm really passionate about the industry and how everything works
[20:37] Zia: mostly in good fun
[20:37] Rinsen: It is interesting
[20:37] McKuffin: Personally I don't have a big issue with tiers having differing benefits, it's not like YT has been the first to employ the concept.
[20:37] Zia: Maybe someday there will be a documentary...
[20:38] Zia: Tiers having benefit is unusual in hololive but not unheard of
[20:38] Zia: like matsuri or suisei have those I think?
[20:38] McKuffin: And I'd say there's plenty of "unusual" ever since EN's debut.
[20:38] Tornado: There are some but in very different price ranges
[20:38] Zia: At first I thought it was weird but in the end it allows for very comfy interactions that the talent couldn't get otherwise
[20:39] somejapaneseName: Matsuri's tiers have only very rarely had differentiated content tbh
[20:39] Zia: must be nice to have just 200 people to talk to sometimes
[20:39] draxal: T3 streams have alot less people
[20:39] draxal: So she's way more at ease there
[20:39] Zia: Then you have Kagura Mea 100$ membership ATM experience...
[20:39] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: good lordy
[20:40] McKuffin: With the sheer success seen by HoloEN, I'd imagine having a much more intimate environment via tier 2-3 membership only streams would be quite the relief from the usual unfiltered chaos.
[20:40] Ikuuuuuuuu: Well at least for Cali it comes out a month later anyways
[20:41] Zia: Tiered content is common outside of vtubing, for people who come from Patreon and such it just feels normal
[20:41] Zia: it's interesting to see the 2 cultures clash a bit
[20:41] McKuffin: Exactly, it's nothing new, but it's the cross-cultural pollination at work.
[20:41] Zia: el famoso cross cultural pollination
[20:41] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: EN have honestly made it p difficult to pick who to member for
they're all so good, but my pockets are only so deep
[20:42] Zia: Yeah, I do like membership much more than SC
[20:42] Zia: Like for some indies I feel bad when people start donating and it derails the stream completly
[20:42] Zia: Mori got better at handling this recently
[20:42] McKuffin: As they've said before, the support is definitely appreciated, but don't put yourself at some sort of disadvantage just to do so.
[20:43] Zorglub: Idk if I was a streamer I would always like getting money
[20:43] Ikuuuuuuuu: Honestly the SC wars turned me off hard on Cali early on
[20:43] Zia: That's what you think at first, but once you settle in you realise you also wanna provide good content
[20:43] Zia: well, can't talk for them but yeah
[20:43] McKuffin: There's the impostor syndrome factor to consider, especially with the rapid climb they all experienced within the first few months.
[20:43] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: no ofc
my shrimping budget is just one membership, v manageable for me
but deciding who to give it to is my issue lolol
[20:44] coca099: That convo is going way off into off-topic. Better to move out of stream chat guys.
[20:44] Zia: yeahhhh
[20:44] somejapaneseName: Member with Calli and Ame for me. I like Gura and Ina but I honestly don't see what it is about Gura that brings in the amazing sub numbers. Kiara... I'm warming up to, but my initial feeling was pretty negative and it's stuck with me.

(I'm also a member with Matsuri from JP and Risu from ID.)
[20:44] Zia: What a I really want from Mori membership is actual production content
[20:44] Zia: like composing music on stream
[20:44] McKuffin: Could always cycle it on a monthly basis? Might not provide any consistent benefits, but you'd be spreading your support out somewhat evenly.
[20:44] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: true
[20:44] Zia: I'm a composer myself and I'd love to see Calli work on stream
[20:45] lazyyyyy: What did her banging on that pot do for you on a scale of 1 to yes
[20:46] EggLetuce| 🔱🐑: I didn't quite like kiara at first either, but her enthusiasm and earnestness has me catching the occasional stream, given the times she streams at, being in jp and all
[20:47] McKuffin: Calli's got so much on her plate each week, she's got at least two streams in regards to mixing music, I figure she'll do more at some point.
[20:47] Zia: She said she's quitting her scythe lessons mid year (so by the end of december) I think
[20:48] Zia: I can't wait to see what she can do with more time and actual sleep
[20:48] McKuffin: Assuming she doesn't just fill it with more workaholism.
[20:48] lazyyyyy: Heres hoping if she does it's for stuff she wants to do which makes a world of difference
[20:50] McKuffin: Aye, I'm hopeful for more Yakuza 7/Like a Dragon if the Sega contract applies to EN.
[20:50] Zia: Altus..........