[2:16 AM] olivinearc: guhhh
[2:16 AM] olivinearc: so yeah i just don't wanna do char the dirty
[2:16 AM] queenofnohr: U ok?
[2:16 AM] olivinearc: tighten up the plotline, etc.
[2:17 AM] queenofnohr: Yeye
[2:17 AM] queenofnohr: I get it lmao
[2:28 AM] olivinearc: but yeah like the whole foe yay thing
[2:28 AM] olivinearc: and how we can do that and etc. etc.
[2:28 AM] olivinearc: when should we sit down abt it
[2:28 AM] queenofnohr: Sunday
[2:29 AM] olivinearc: ok for our 1v1? swag
[2:29 AM] queenofnohr: Did you want her route route to be foe yay or general route?
[2:31 AM] olivinearc: god i kinda wanna say we go balls to the wall and foe yay with a diana who knows shit we shouldn't but
[2:31 AM] olivinearc: ill have to think on it when we have the time
[2:32 AM] queenofnohr: mm'kay
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: like i figure everyone's Out for tonight
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: i'm not necessarily but yeah i'm just brewing
[2:33 AM] queenofnohr: I guess i just have to know like Soon cuz like. I already def have a strong impression of char in my head and if we're changing her core, i guess, motivator/relationship to di im gonna have to retool and  unravel n stuff
[2:34 AM] olivinearc: i don't think we're changing her core just literally how we A) put her in main route and B) how we actually write out the bonus route execution wise
[2:34 AM] queenofnohr: :thumbsup:
[2:34 AM] olivinearc: how we allude to the murders, how to incorporate di meeting her, etc.
[2:34 AM] olivinearc: give some incentive for the sudden draw di feels to her, etc.
[2:35 AM] queenofnohr: ye i gotcha
[2:35 AM] olivinearc: just a brush up to standard now that we're both back home basically
[2:36 AM] queenofnohr: Btw I didn't wanna bring it up in meeting bc no one else rly has to know but...... While others might be able to be frontloaded, I might have to be a little backloaded bc............. this is my last quarter of school l m a o
[2:37 AM] queenofnohr: Basically I can still, like, do shit obvs
[2:37 AM] olivinearc: nah, you're fine bc you're a bonus route
[2:37 AM] olivinearc: it's more "bc we have no idea what the future's like plz write as much as possible main routers thnx!"
[2:37 AM] queenofnohr: Kk cool. I'll be all yours after March something or other
[2:37 AM] queenofnohr: LMAO kk
[2:37 AM] olivinearc: like i'm just waiting for the next inevitable calamity ykno
[2:38 AM] queenofnohr: I just got a little Sweats in the meeting cuz of my BS
[2:38 AM] olivinearc: nah
[2:38 AM] olivinearc: i'll be fine if we get the logistics for ev and char sorted away
[2:38 AM] queenofnohr: yeye holla
[2:39 AM] olivinearc: but yeah if i was  my usual shade of bitch it's a di who feels so strongly she goes back in time and is having TROUBLES with char onc3e she sees her face to face again HAHA
[2:39 AM] olivinearc: but i know that might be a lil much for "canon" but also it's a bonus idfk
[2:39 AM] olivinearc: headin ot beddd soon?\
[2:40 AM] queenofnohr: hdgfhdgfjh
[2:40 AM] queenofnohr: I mean im a slut for timeline shenanigans
[2:40 AM] queenofnohr: tho usually not so on the nose
[2:41 AM] queenofnohr: im not really heading out to bed soon but i super wasnt even joking when i said i have 1 braincell and all its thinking of is boning down on Norts LMAO
[2:41 AM] olivinearc: ljkdsfsdFSDFSDKFSDF
[2:41 AM] olivinearc: live ur best life
[2:41 AM] olivinearc: and subtle w/ timeline is tough bc it's a line that's either crossed or it isn't ya
[2:41 AM] queenofnohr: THIS IS NOT MY BEST LIFE I DONT WANNA LIVE LIKE THIS
[2:42 AM] queenofnohr: mmmmmm i was thinking more of like
[2:42 AM] olivinearc: like it can't rly be a foe yay if di only has a bad vague feeling vs she knows exactly what char is gonna do
[2:43 AM] queenofnohr: Oh ok so u defo want foe-yay foe-yay for Char route ok
[2:43 AM] olivinearc: if we can just bc i love foe yay but if it doesn't work out reasonably we can do a diff option
[2:43 AM] olivinearc: i think there's a lot of power in di knowing 100% what char has done in that route and still acting against fate
[2:44 AM] olivinearc: er, like she knows what char would do without intervention
[2:44 AM] queenofnohr: Oooooh I see
[2:44 AM] queenofnohr: No no put like that I can dig it
[2:46 AM] queenofnohr: My OG thing worked on the kind of basis of like............. Higurashi I guess? Not Rika but like in some of the final timelines Mion remembering Keiichi or Keiichi having like that vague memory of another life where he fucking murdered Mi + Rena
[2:47 AM] olivinearc: it depends on the angle you want to go i think
[2:47 AM] olivinearc: that full acknowledgement of the sins vs smth more indirect that has di not necessarily make judgement w/ full context
[2:48 AM] olivinearc: bc either works
[2:49 AM] queenofnohr: I guess it depends on like......... really how much Di would even want to associate with Charlotte if she Knows, you know?
[2:49 AM] queenofnohr: That's, I guess, the big logic gap I'm having with the full remembering Charlotte thing
[2:50 AM] queenofnohr: And, I guess, what the climax of Charlotte's route is gonna be
[2:50 AM] olivinearc: i think di is fucked up but still ultimately cares about char, and the route wouldn't exist at all if she immediately thought char had no potential redemption in her, even if it must have been pre-murder
[2:51 AM] olivinearc: maybe when she went back for whatever reason, if literally just a what if, she didn't expect to do anything but kill char early but shit Happens
[2:51 AM] olivinearc: something something di cashes a favor w/ satan it's metaphysics in the afterlife yknow? or like fate revelations
[2:51 AM] queenofnohr: Hmmmm could work
[2:52 AM] olivinearc: but that's just bc my big thing with like most of my time travel stories is
[2:52 AM] olivinearc: the full acknowledgment of the awful
[2:52 AM] olivinearc: and the And Yet
[2:53 AM] queenofnohr: I think my thing with that is
[2:53 AM] olivinearc: (the logistics r3e always a bitch tho)
[2:53 AM] queenofnohr: It's full acknowledgement of the awful without actually being full acknowledgement of the awful?
[2:54 AM] queenofnohr: To me it feels kind of half a shoe in?
[2:54 AM] queenofnohr: Like Di can't be with a fully broken down Charlotte because she's a serial killer and has done Bad Things, so we can't go all the way with it in a Heaven's Feel-esque type of way
[2:56 AM] olivinearc: one sec
[2:57 AM] olivinearc: gotta admit i don't know heaven's feel but ;; also uhhh
[2:57 AM] queenofnohr: Sorry im like. foggy
[2:57 AM] olivinearc: i thought that was what u were proposing
[2:57 AM] olivinearc: the not full acknowledgement
[2:57 AM] olivinearc: vs di going like "ok i know explicitly what char is capable and willing to do And Yet"
[2:57 AM] olivinearc: unless that's still under that
[3:10 AM] queenofnohr: I think my problem is: part of the problem - a lot of the problem - with Char is that she's so fucking alone, but she also doesn't reach out to anyone. And what I originally had in mind with the Char route was the story about a girl who........ against her own judgment, does reach out, even a little, even if its as small as attending a party she doesnt even really participate in. And that little bit is what allows her to be saved. I wanted that kind of agency in her own situation pre-game, her own downfall, and even, possibly, her own salvation.

It's not that I don't think the route you proposed couldn't work, it's that I don't know how Charlotte would be able to open up enough to be able to reach out if the person she's reaching out to comes back with the intention of something like killing her. The only way I could see that happening is if Di came back with the very intention of saving her, but from what we've discussed abbt Diana and her opinion of Char after the murders, I don't think that's being truthful to Di's character. And then relating to agency, bc I got a lil off track there, is that if Diana comes back with the direct intention of interfering with Charlotte whether it is to save her or whether it's to get close enough to her to have a shot at killing her, I think it robs Charlotte of that ability to reach out and have agency over her own circumstances
[3:10 AM] queenofnohr: That's my 2 cents as of rn but like........ I also might just be not "getting" stuff cuz of how absentminded i am rn
[3:10 AM] olivinearc: no, i get what ur saying
[3:11 AM] olivinearc: god this is my bread and butter, hype
[3:11 AM] olivinearc: i think it's not a sheer one-or-the-other when it comes to the agency, bc ultimately the agency does lie with diana, but it's less that she shoves it on charlotte and more offers the possibility, imo, to let charlotte reach out at all
[3:11 AM] olivinearc: and then it's up to char to take it or not
[3:13 AM] olivinearc: and again i do think even if di won't get with a murderer, much in the thought set of a demon offering a contract to an almost vampire, she sees the potential in char before she crosses that line. that there's something there she could grasp if she just came a little bit earlier. it's a little intoxicating to diana i think bc 1) it leaves someone else in her hands however minor-significantly and 2) she's honestly sort of into that kind of fucked up dynamic, even if ultimately she knows at the end of the day if char crosses that line she's going to put her in line again. i think she might be against the romance at first, and may even try to place nice but --
[3:13 AM] olivinearc: ok so i kinda read this one xmen fic today lmao and it's not quite the same vein but
[3:14 AM] olivinearc:
When Charles Xavier sends his consciousness back to 1962, he allows those few of his students in the know to believe that he intends to kill Magneto nee Erik Lehnsherr - that he will take one life to save billions, which even he has to admit would be a more than fair trade in the larger scheme of things.

He is not actually going to do anything of the sort.

For one thing, he has never, despite everything that has happened, stopped believing that life is sacred.

And for another thing, he knows for an absolute fact that Erik has been in love with him for more years than either of them had lived when they first met.

Charles has never, not once, acknowledged to Erik or any other person that he knows this; and he has never, not once before now ever imagined using it; but torn between an intolerable option and a heinous one, he'll take the intolerable.

Maybe if he gives Erik what Erik wants, Erik will listen.

Charles has learned a lot over the past forty years; he's no longer the idiot he once was. Surely, surely he can manage to take a younger, more malleable Erik and bend him into a better shape.

He doubts he'll even need to read Erik's mind to do it. In fact, he won't at all unless he has to; a challenge to himself. He's astute enough now not to need to cheat, surely.

First mistake.
[3:14 AM] olivinearc: yknow, this sort of vibe
[3:15 AM] queenofnohr: Hmmmmm, I get what you're saying
[3:16 AM] queenofnohr: lemme marinate a little and I'll draw up some gameplans by sunday
[3:16 AM] olivinearc: no sweat, i'll ruminate myelf
[3:16 AM] olivinearc: bc it's a sort of
[3:16 AM] olivinearc: "is it ok if it's just a meta redemption or one for di too"
[8:13 PM] queenofnohr: Expect me ~8/8:30 pst? If that’s gucci?
[11:39 PM] queenofnohr: I am Here if you are. If tonight turned out to be bad just lmk
[12:04 AM] olivinearc: Nah I just didn't expect to fall asleep
[12:04 AM] olivinearc: Hiii
[12:05 AM] queenofnohr: henlo
[12:06 AM] olivinearc: Alright, so what's kicking
[12:07 AM] olivinearc: Char, how we can make her more effective main game, and in her own route
[12:09 AM] queenofnohr: Let's tackle main game first cuz I feel like figuring that out will naturally figure out some of her own route
[12:10 AM] queenofnohr: right now, what are some of your grievances @ her character? I know you mentioned you felt like she was a plot device rather than a character earlier, but i'd like to know in what way to be able to solve it
[12:11 AM] olivinearc: Nah it's more where my priorities lie, from day one it's always been more about the fallout of the doc's death than naturally investing in the killer
[12:12 AM] queenofnohr: Ooooooh okie
[12:12 AM] olivinearc: I think there's some logistics of what char does over time until April, too
[12:12 AM] olivinearc: Like where she lives, etc.
[12:12 AM] queenofnohr: Yeye
[12:13 AM] queenofnohr: I guess like...... where do you want to begin?
[12:13 AM] queenofnohr: If i just start talking it'll be a lot of word vomit that isnt guaranteed to actually like
[12:13 AM] queenofnohr: solve anything lol
[12:14 AM] olivinearc: Hmm, I admittedly wanna grab a taco bc i slept through dinner but lemme think
[12:14 AM] queenofnohr: oh i mean u do what u needa do lmao
[12:14 AM] queenofnohr: i'll just be here
[12:14 AM] olivinearc: So as it stands right now with char, di stumbles upon her once a month or so where we establish.....
[12:15 AM] olivinearc: And we can start foreshadowing murders to any degree as early as.....?
[12:18 AM] olivinearc: (sorry I didn't mean to crash so early, I'm really looking forward to this talk)
[12:22 AM] queenofnohr: Getting into Char's mental state soonish will be important in setting the stage to her own route...... I'd say, from meeting 2 Some Issues should be apparent, but Char official meeting 1 should have her [nge english dub voice] cool and in control, if holding a certain sternness esp toward herself. ALSO LMK if this doesnt fit bc literally this is all old shit based on like magic shit and if we're retooling that I dunno if this like. still works. But to me, Charlotte was kind of a figure to be....... respected? With the way she carries herself and her centuries worth of knowledge, but no-nonsense attitude, I felt, I guess that regardless of magic bs the pull factor here would be that Charlotte....... at least looks put together (LOL)
[12:22 AM] queenofnohr: (and its no prob, if I sound kinda straight laced rn its cuz im in "get down to bsns" mode)
[12:23 AM] olivinearc: Ye ye
[12:23 AM] olivinearc: OK so she's supposed to be a rando intimidating and respectable woman
[12:23 AM] olivinearc: And this contributes to the final showdown
[12:23 AM] queenofnohr: Yeah, and kind of just her.......... fall?
[12:26 AM] queenofnohr: Like her fall from Respectable Person -> Wreck through her own self doubts and knowing going through with some of this means being morally wrong + if its the Divine telling me to do this can it be bad? can I be wrong? is my doubt itself a sin? + her own salvation and if she cant sacrifice this piece of herself as well, what were all those years for???? (of course that is the wrong answer, but.....)
[12:27 AM] queenofnohr: All in all i guess her progression is kind of....
[12:27 AM] queenofnohr: In my mind at least its like
[12:31 AM] olivinearc: How would a scene be outlined
?
[12:38 AM] queenofnohr: She's the kind of.... mentor figure. Someone to turn to not for sympathy and comfort, but someone who helps one grow - if you need advice she'll give you no a nonsense rundown, someone whose own personal sense of duty and strictness inspires those who can be around her/those she doesnt absolutely push away to strive. And she's able to keep up this facade as long as she's alone.

But the second she starts trusting someone, at least in gen routes is........ twisted. Because it's one sided. She doesn't allow herself wholehearted vulnerability, and she trusts without being trusted . Its a selfish kind of thing where she wants to Not Be Alone, but isn't willing to/feels like she can't do the same back. And she kind of goes to shit because she's comfortable enough to doubt, but not trusting enough to be able to fully disclose where her problems lie (ALSO BC SHE KNOWS SHE S DONE BAD/NOT WHAT NORMAL PPL DO EVEN IF IT WAS JUSTIFIED/ACTUALLY IN LINE WITH HEAVEN AND SHE WANTS TO KEEP UP APPEARANCES OF BEING A GOOD PERSON BC BEING LIKED ACTUALLY FEELS...... GOOD ) meaning her "in control" persona breaks down as she questions herself more and more as 1. time draws nearer and 2. I assume her talking with Diana is like the first normal contact she's had in who knows how long and she's kind of...... reintroduced to what a normal "good" person is supposed to be
[12:38 AM] queenofnohr: (sorry didnt see that msg while i was working on that BS)
[12:39 AM] olivinearc: right, so an overlap with ev in terms of distanced almost-mentor with less chances to interact than the main LIs
[12:39 AM] olivinearc: and if di is the most normal person she's met in awhile she likely doesn't hang around much at robin's diner
[12:42 AM] queenofnohr: In my mind she occupies the space of like..... a wanderer? Basically, she goes where The Work takes her. And it isn't that she doesn't interact with anyone ever, but it's on a completely superficial level to preserve whatever facade she's inhabiting to be able to complete her god-given missions
[12:42 AM] queenofnohr: lmk if u want me to tweak shit if theres too much overlap with ev
[12:44 AM] queenofnohr: as far as outlining a scene goes........ er, remind me how you like stuff like that done? real talk i dont usually outline scenes so this is New
[12:44 AM] olivinearc: well no it's more i'm getting the gist it's more
[12:44 AM] olivinearc: what would happen literally in a scene
[12:44 AM] olivinearc: just a brief summary or synopsis
[12:44 AM] queenofnohr: OH!
[12:44 AM] olivinearc: bc while having our abstracts in mind is obvs super important how are we gonna convey all this
[12:44 AM] olivinearc: that's where i start getting hesitant
[12:45 AM] olivinearc: altho the more u talk about this the more i do have a kinda funny relevant passage maybe, one sec
[12:45 AM] olivinearc:
Charles chose to forget this a long time ago; but back in 1962, the first time around, it wasn't that he didn't return Erik's interest.

The thing is, he took a good long look in at Erik's mind, and decided he seemed high maintenance. Just a bit.

And thirty-year-old Charles was rather...well, rather lazy.

After the accident, it seemed inadvisable to revisit it, all things considered, so Charles...didn't.
[12:46 AM] queenofnohr: I mean if we're trashing the magic BS i do need to know/brainstorm a new Thing to-
[12:46 AM] queenofnohr: kejfgnjkhjksrhgjer
[12:46 AM] queenofnohr: oh my g o d
[12:46 AM] olivinearc: like,, u can't tell me this doesn't sound About Right for a potential route we could take
[12:46 AM] queenofnohr: THATS LITERALLY IT THO
[12:48 AM] queenofnohr: in my mind the whole thing kind of falls apart bc Char is In Distress about literal like........ Heaven or Hell BS and Di is like
[12:48 AM] queenofnohr: yo;;;;;
[12:48 AM] queenofnohr: uh ;;;;;;
[12:48 AM] queenofnohr: my dad called i gotta go home rn immediately
[12:48 AM] olivinearc: i don't think we're inherently trashing the magic bs it's a matter of just literally how is this chara arc going to be established main arc
[12:48 AM] olivinearc: like does di just walk somewhere and crash into a super glowering ho who has a sudden intense fascination w/ her and etc.
[12:49 AM] queenofnohr: oh okay!
[12:50 AM] olivinearc: like we have these ideas just like, what actually makes sense to put in the game
[12:50 AM] olivinearc: esp if she only has one or two scenes a month
[12:50 AM] olivinearc: esp if char straight up gives some totally scary vibes
[12:52 AM] queenofnohr: Ok before i get into this i wanna confirm from one of our last talks - you wanted Di's magic to be something kind of useless (or something the Hunter (Doc??? dont remember super clearly)  says is useless) but something that she wants to improve anyway ?
[12:53 AM] olivinearc: right
[12:53 AM] olivinearc: with di, lemme write a lil mini ramble
[12:53 AM] queenofnohr: npnp!
[12:55 AM] olivinearc: basically she has a fixation on being special even in "ineffective" ways, like having technically useless magic because she's desperately chasing to fill the void. even though she know ultimately it's futile and not the healthiest for many good reasons, an ideal situation for her would be a never ending party with drama and everything that comes with that sort of night life, a spectacle not unlike stuff that happens more often in fiction than reality - her life in highschool was the same, always chasing the thrill versus wanting to "settle" and even though she knows ultimately it isn't the best she can't always stop
[12:55 AM] olivinearc: she doesn't want to be alone, and she knows it's healthier to get out more, so it's a double whammy of a void that means it's not completely out there for her to chase cheap thrills but she's still got a brain in her, so it has to be p carefully
[12:56 AM] olivinearc: especially bc she's not as nice or a pacifist as charles xavier
[12:56 AM] olivinearc: plus in xmen magneto is the main feature vs charlotte's current bit piece main route
[12:56 AM] olivinearc: so i'm wondering if, when we finally see the execution of these proposed arcs, if char's everything has to be scrapped just bc is it too tall an order or what
[12:57 AM] olivinearc: if we should introduce more heavy a prominance in murders in dec, or what
[1:01 AM] queenofnohr: (give me 1 tick my bro just walked in and needs something of me)
[1:01 AM] olivinearc: all ggg
[1:17 AM] queenofnohr: I mean I guess - what did you have in mind for the Char/Di dynamic originally? And what timeline did you have in mind for Char's murders? (imo, the stuff you said abt Di doesnt necessarily contradict anything abt how i've been envisioning interactions)
[1:20 AM] olivinearc: i don't see it contradicting either, just better to put it on paper
[1:20 AM] olivinearc: and honestly i didn't imagine them really meeting at all just bc that's not something i usually account for in general
[1:20 AM] olivinearc: a very big vibe of too little too late but it never hurts to make things feel a little less "accidentally late" to the reader who might not get that gist and instead feel char is an asspull or smth
[1:21 AM] olivinearc: it might mean more of a cops and robber thing more consistently across the story
[1:21 AM] queenofnohr: I see I see
[1:21 AM] queenofnohr: I mean with Char's BS and her scenes in general
[1:40 AM] queenofnohr: I imagine them not too big or anything. She's just Cool-ish Girl she meets with for magic lessons every so often. For their meeting, I imagine a kind of glimpse of her, can be before any scene pre actually meeting Char, where they see each other in a crowd and lock eyes and it's kind of this Moment, but Char goes her way and Di obvs doesn't pursue in this kind of mirroring and miss of the demo. Second meeting, more of an actual one, has Char approach Di about her magic, perhaps, as an invitation to nurture it? In that sense the main Char/Di arc on Char's side is starting with approaching someone as a potential tool and/or ally (i wanna make that explicit vs. being approached as a person in her own route), adhering a sense of kinship of that doesn't exist in the way she thinks because she Doesn't Want to be Alone and is struggling with questions abt her morality, turning to a sense of betrayal on her end (it isnt actually obvs) because of the things she's projected onto Diana. Diana's arc in that is kind of....... dealing with this "voided" existence especially in terms of Charlotte  being this kind of ambitious + powerful figure, eventually cumulating with this denial of responsibility (but it's a responsibility she shouldn't have anyway), but this duality of - I can't help you because I can't be who you want me to be (also this Is Not what I signed up for) intersecting, perhaps, this kind of sobering guilt regarding her cyclical nature, what that means not just for her but for other people, and what it means to be completely ineffectual, what it means to be ambitious, and what it means to not want to be alone, since Charlotte's own loneliness is what leads to this and is kind of this twisted, up to 11 mirror she can look through
[1:40 AM] queenofnohr: In that sense Charlotte isn't really life-changing (until she is, as a killer), but a kind of sobering existence
[1:42 AM] queenofnohr: I have a short story I wanna compare it to, though the characters are wholly different............. mm. The pity there, and sobering without necessarily changing gives off the same type of feeling, I feel
[1:43 AM] olivinearc: ok this is a lot to take in
[1:43 AM] queenofnohr: sorry I was trying to bridge the gap...?
[1:44 AM] olivinearc: but i think this sort of thing is going to take more than the amount of scenes i currently have penned in, which is fixable, but this is like the first time it really sunk in that char would try to hit her up about magic stuff, and the like
[1:44 AM] olivinearc: especially if she's already training with hunter
[1:45 AM] queenofnohr: Mmmm, I see
[1:45 AM] olivinearc: or maybe it's just bc that sort of personally projects w/ the whole
[1:45 AM] olivinearc: "so this super scary looking chick can pick me out of a crowd and talk to me about magic, not concerning at all"
[1:45 AM] olivinearc: esp when she initially gave the vamps a really rough time
[1:46 AM] queenofnohr: I mean I'm flexible too this is just kind of...... idk the rough image I used off info given?
[1:46 AM] queenofnohr: Basically all that really needs to happen is
[1:46 AM] queenofnohr: 1. we need some way for them to, like, interact
[1:49 AM] queenofnohr: 2. we need some image of Charlotte's inner turmoil in Gen route, some sort of feeling of her mental landscape even if it isnt fully realized abt what she can do until she does it (A Lot of Murder)
[1:50 AM] olivinearc: right, yea, that's why i asked for the meeting in the first placer just the
[1:50 AM] olivinearc: logistics of di not necessarily doing something about the person obviously giving school shooter vibes
[1:50 AM] olivinearc: is how i'm parsing it rn
[1:56 AM] olivinearc: unless she isn't supposed to give that vibe?
[1:56 AM] olivinearc: like, are we trying to hide char's true character revelation at all?
[1:56 AM] olivinearc: or are we just making it obvs from the start
[1:58 AM] queenofnohr: on the logistics about Char's mental landscape, do you mean showing Char's vulnerability and what could possibly lead to her full total breakdown, or are we talking about the logistics of the way she's presented as I pitched it with my whole long BS up there?
[1:58 AM] olivinearc: probably both
[1:59 AM] olivinearc: altho she likely is already starting to kill by dec/jan if just so the murders can be alluded to at all before the big event
[2:00 AM] queenofnohr: Are these "justified" murders? Not to Diana, I mean. But to like...... to heaven?
[2:01 AM] olivinearc: hmm, a good question
[2:01 AM] olivinearc: sounds like a revamp time
[2:03 AM] olivinearc: ok i think we can have doc death locked in still on april, for the sake of avoiding a mother 3 and killing someone off early and expecting us to care about them, so it's all the bits before that, and how much time we can invest in char and how much we're willing to
[2:03 AM] olivinearc: probably paralells between char and cath as "outside friends"
[2:08 AM] olivinearc: and di has to have some of emotional implication to lead to the bonus route
[2:08 AM] olivinearc: we could have di stumble upon char obviously being a murderer by dec, or
[2:08 AM] olivinearc: hmhm
[2:16 AM] queenofnohr: I dont mind Char doing The Murder before doc, but it's also about Char's reaction or lack thereof and Di not....... being able to get with a murderer. Like the logistics for me is: Doc's death is what really makes Char go off the deep end because it's when her morals fail; I don't imagine Char with her hands completely clean (I believe we've talked abt this before) but before she wasn't playing judge, jury, and executioner - the people she killed were people that were largely unforgivable and perhaps enemies of the greater balance as a whole. Thus, Doc killing locks her out of heaven, her whole pitiful existence and literal centuries living not as a person but as a hand of heaven is for nothing, so she loses her shit.

So. If she kills before Doc, I'd feel like it had to be more justifiable killings, but for Di to find that out........ ngl I am a sucker for a like "what's wrong with it?" type scene, but also it has implications if the above statements for Char are true also? Where does Di draw the line if Char has also done the Murder, even if her last one was decades before? Basically, if it's a justified killing in the eyes of heaven, that doesnt mean Di can justify it (or even understands, at this point since it's a Greater Struggle), and if that's so, what makes Charlotte's past in any way redeemable to Di?
[2:17 AM] olivinearc: wait why does it matter di gets with a murderer or not, this is main route
[2:17 AM] olivinearc: she isn't getting with char regardless
[2:17 AM] olivinearc: do you mean get along and hang out with?
[2:18 AM] olivinearc: bc see i didn't even consider the fact that we might do an actual frienship or any sort of repeated hang out in main route w/ char
[2:18 AM] queenofnohr: Nonono
[2:18 AM] queenofnohr: i mean
[2:19 AM] queenofnohr: For Char's route
[2:19 AM] queenofnohr: it's not like Di can go wayyyyy the fuck back in time to stop Char from doing any kind of killings, ever (unless that's what you meant by time travel????)
[2:20 AM] olivinearc: ya
[2:20 AM] olivinearc: bc like, char as a person inherently doesn't have a chance main route
[2:20 AM] olivinearc: that's why i was talking about the one or the other with a char route
[2:20 AM] olivinearc: bc it gets to be so heavily AU
[2:21 AM] olivinearc: but it's like "Do you want di to realize entirely what char is capable or do you want something without the acknowledgement of those sins"
[2:21 AM] olivinearc: for her char route
[2:21 AM] olivinearc: i didn't realize we were talking about char route mb i thought we were still on main
[2:22 AM] queenofnohr: Wait wait wait i need to clarify. So Char route, you wanted legit time travel so Di can shack up with her like centuries before she does any killings at all, justified and OK with heaven or not?
[2:22 AM] olivinearc: why centuries
[2:22 AM] olivinearc: the killings would start within the main story or thereabouts
[2:22 AM] queenofnohr: ok
[2:22 AM] queenofnohr: cuz before
[2:22 AM] queenofnohr: When we were talking Char
[2:23 AM] olivinearc: and it's more how can we approach the logistics of having foe yay if char's done nothing to be a foe in that route
[2:24 AM] olivinearc: if we don't want foe yay that's another matter entirely
[2:24 AM] olivinearc: (just yknow, foeyay is fun)
[2:24 AM] queenofnohr: ok sorry i was pulling out the logic im currently operating on
[2:28 AM] queenofnohr: https://pastebin.com/LKxvLy9C
Pastebin
As for killing before the timeline of the game............  I mean...

[2:28 AM] queenofnohr: This is what I was referencing
[2:28 AM] queenofnohr: And had been with my internal Char logic
[2:29 AM] queenofnohr: I can overhaul, Imma just need to like....... be given a bit to work on it?
[2:29 AM] olivinearc: tbf i don't think yv is given any leeway either, while seb feels hella remorse
[2:30 AM] olivinearc: with the senjougahara stuff and all that i haven't seen bake yet, so
[2:30 AM] olivinearc: i'll start drafting up some different ideas though bc we had a fundamental total misunderstanding rn
[2:31 AM] queenofnohr: Okay ;;;;; I'm really sorry ;;;;
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: no no don't be sorry
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: i don't think you did anything wrong, it's literally more
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: how will this come across to the readers
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: how can we accomplish that, which means i think a bit of revamp of just what we're asking of char in story
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: i think one thing we should negotiate is
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: how much of char we want featured before the big murderama
[2:32 AM] olivinearc: how much of a bond should she have with di, the works
[2:33 AM] olivinearc: esp given only one scene or so a month, sporadically, when the main focus is the love interests
[2:35 AM] olivinearc: i think, for ref, when cath and di meet up it's a one time instance and the rest are occasional/sparse tweets
[2:35 AM] olivinearc: while when she talks to ev it tends to be more a... intentionally side gig vibe? like she usually can't actively scope out ev nor does ev give her the time to sit down and ask him out bc of the whole satan dying thing
[2:37 AM] queenofnohr: I mean to me I don't think they had that much of a bond. Once a month scene that I don't even think would be particularly long, that kind of tracks Char's mental state. Main focus is still on LIs, but this kind of meeting and then..... not is one of those things that happens and its not even a huge deal but the way things fell through, it's one of those things you look back on because there was a shift.... not life changing, but it makes you Think
[2:39 AM] olivinearc: you mean like that one dude who assasinated the japanese prime minister but also once had a date with the future empress of japan?
[2:39 AM] queenofnohr: gashdbfsdhgfvdshgf
[2:40 AM] queenofnohr: I DIDNT MEAN LIKE THAT..................
[2:44 AM] queenofnohr: more like...... It's one of those kinds of chance meetings in your life where, in the grand scheme of things, wasn't all that long, and during the time wasn't even particularly important? But the falling out, the way things ended...... it might not have even been that emotional but it still leaves an impression (and in this case it does matter quite soon bc Char is the big bad)
[2:45 AM] olivinearc: right, right
[2:45 AM] olivinearc: to give reason for di to have that "what if"
[2:45 AM] olivinearc: i do think one thing that needs to change is
[2:45 AM] olivinearc: so no matter what, di is about to die after her confrontation with char
[2:45 AM] olivinearc: the confrontation might be a lil diff tho now that di can't fuck someone up with her blood
[2:47 AM] queenofnohr: oh shit
[2:49 AM] olivinearc: plus, char raises a hand against di
[2:50 AM] olivinearc: sooo
[2:50 AM] olivinearc: something has to lead to that
[2:50 AM] queenofnohr: Yeye
[2:53 AM] queenofnohr: I mean like - I think Char wouldn't terribly have a problem with fucking Di up with just how far gone she is at the final confrontation
[2:53 AM] queenofnohr: so - what exactly needs to change?
[2:53 AM] olivinearc: hmm
[2:55 AM] olivinearc: off the top of my head, just what is asked of char in universe, locking down just exactly the dynamic di and char would have (almost friends? police and gentleman thief? both?), at what point char officially crosses the deep end, the reason that di may still date yv who's a murderer versus char and what the difference would be, if there's a different trigger for di going "ffffuck no", etc.
[3:00 AM] queenofnohr: Ok lemme tackle these in order
[3:00 AM] olivinearc: and the implications that if di does see something weird, the balance between "i should tell someone" and the inevitable finale of "GUESS WE'RE GOING SOLO"
[3:00 AM] queenofnohr: (sorry i keep cutting out im. forced to make food bc its raining out)
[3:00 AM] olivinearc: nah ur gucciii
[3:00 AM] olivinearc: i'm gonna go wash my face while u do that
[3:04 AM] olivinearc: i almost want to say we shove everything off into a cubby as a fallback but discard anything that we perceive as holding us back whatever that is
[3:04 AM] olivinearc: aka the BIG KNIFE EMOJI
[3:06 AM] queenofnohr: I mean I think my problem rn is that I can't really see the full scope of the story and its arcs with all it's moving parts so I've been operating under what's in docs and our own conversations (many of which are indeed outdated im seeing) and now I don't really know what exactly doesnt mesh with your vision of what should be going on or what is necessary for Charlotte to be to make this story the best it can be
[3:07 AM] queenofnohr: Dynamic Di and Char have: fledgling mentor and apprentice is probably the most succinct way to phrase it? They're on good terms but their meetings are largely "business" oriented (whatever that business might be even if it isnt magic), and there is a distance, which makes Char's overbearingness later so lopsided later bc of that how the relationship is established
[3:08 AM] queenofnohr: Char crossing deep end: After the Doctor's death, natch. Maybe a couple days of leeway where everything sinks in + planning how to go forward but then she's just. Serial Killer.
[3:10 AM] queenofnohr: Reason to date Yv but not Char: 1. Yv isn't a murder, like, now (unless she is?). 2. Char has this kind of "this is right bc heaven says its right" so she doesnt even look on her life with remorse (and effectively can't because she's done so much)
[3:11 AM] queenofnohr: (feel free to respond gotta get shit out of the oven n shit before continuing)
[3:11 AM] queenofnohr: (or addressing last point you wanted me to)
[3:13 AM] olivinearc: i think the biggest dissonance is the dynamic
[3:13 AM] olivinearc: how do you think char could mentor her about the whole magic thing?
[3:15 AM] queenofnohr: real talk? dunno so we can scrap it
[3:15 AM] olivinearc: hjsdFSLDKFSDF
[3:15 AM] queenofnohr: im just answering these with my impressions/roughs
[3:16 AM] olivinearc: like it'd be cool but i had a "wait a sec" moment
[3:16 AM] olivinearc: i think even the hunter is just like
[3:16 AM] olivinearc: questionable at best about it
[3:16 AM] olivinearc: hunter "okay so the books say rosemary and thyme and -"
di "so spellcasting is regent based?"
hunter "oh no this is if you want to exorcise something the normal way"
di "."
[3:17 AM] olivinearc: hunter "idk elbow grease it"
di "<:^)"
[3:17 AM] olivinearc: but uhhh
[3:17 AM] olivinearc: and yeah yeah, we're playing fast and loose rn
[3:17 AM] olivinearc: i do kinda like the idea of super terse like
[3:17 AM] olivinearc: yknow, not-cop and not-thief
[3:18 AM] olivinearc: di can't really arrest her but maybe they just end up meeting in public spaces constantly and they wrangle convos out of each other
[3:18 AM] olivinearc: di maybe presenting the idea of redemption when she's still naive and char is like hhahahaaaa
[3:18 AM] olivinearc: until it's too late and then di is OFficially Soured About All This
[3:18 AM] olivinearc: or smth
[3:18 AM] olivinearc: i'm shooting the shit too
[3:19 AM] queenofnohr: That's a fun dynamic too
[3:19 AM] queenofnohr: mmmmm
[3:19 AM] queenofnohr: I guess we just gotta kinda?
[3:19 AM] queenofnohr: Retool?
[3:19 AM] olivinearc: di: have u considered maybe not killing people
char: have u ever considered not hanging out with other murderers
di: at least they own a car
[3:20 AM] queenofnohr: gomen but I think I'm reaching my limit in terms of info to consider + brainstorming n stuff ;;;
[3:20 AM] queenofnohr: DGHIJERKGHREKGHD
[3:20 AM] queenofnohr: GOD