Y'all motherfuckers need therapy

[4:25 PM] Kiran: will, after recovering from the day's fighting but before going to check on Libra, seek out Spera for a more private conversation - still weary, but not close to death's door.
[4:26 PM] SwaDM: This would easily be doable, of course - Kiran's nap would've been had without any issues whatsoever, as mentioned previously - the camp around the tower is also honestly quite empty, as most squadrons would be deploying currently, meaning that finding Spera would be quite easy - as they'd be in the slightly raised area overlooking the tower where they often tend to be come this point. (edited)
[4:26 PM] Kiran: Is the furniture she stole all still there?
[4:27 PM] SwaDM: She did not steal it, she borrowed it. It is completely different. But no, it is not - it is simply a flat area.
[4:27 PM] Kiran: Heh, fair
[4:28 PM] Kiran: walks a little tentatively up to the raised area, and pauses an appreciable half-second before speaking.
[4:28 PM] Kiran: "... Spera?"
[4:28 PM] SwaDM: There is, admittedly, a slight delay in her reaction, as she seems to be turned towards the tower yet again. It takes a few seconds, but Spera then turns, tilting her head towards Kiran. "...Hm? Yes?"
[4:29 PM] Kiran: "Do you have a few minutes? I could... I think I could do with a little time to talk, if that's okay."
[4:30 PM] SwaDM: "Well - yes, of course. Things are going fairly well in the tower, so I haven't been having to exert much of my influence anyway."
[4:30 PM] SwaDM: "What do you need?"
[4:30 PM] Kiran: looks pensive, and flexes his hands.
[4:31 PM] Kiran: "Well. I've been spending some time thinking about this. I don't... I'm not really sure what we're doing here."
[4:32 PM] SwaDM: "What...do you mean?"
[4:32 PM] Kiran: "I feel like we're doing something wrong."
[4:33 PM] SwaDM: "I can't say I understand, Kiran. We're here to put an end to the Speran-Nevian conflict and recover our people."
[4:33 PM] Kiran: "That's..."
[4:33 PM] Kiran: "I'm - I was thinking about it. And when we've been out in worlds helping people, and trying to save them, I know for sure that we've inspired hope. We've left it better than it was when we found it."
[4:34 PM] Kiran: "I don't feel like anything we've done here since we arrived has really done that. I... I feel like we're doing the opposite. We're making them, the Nevians, feel less."
[4:34 PM] SwaDM: "I don't get your point. What do you think we're meant to do, then?"
[4:36 PM] Kiran: "I'm not trying to suggest an alternative. I don't even know what that alternative would be. I know what we need to do, but I can't help feeling like defeating the Nevians and making them feel less hope is somehow playing into part of Neviltis' plans and will somehow weaken us. And making people feel like we're crushing their dreams, and dampening their hopes it's- I feel bad about it. Even if they forced our hands."
[4:37 PM] Kiran: "Does that make sense?"
[4:37 PM] SwaDM: "Well. If you're suspecting that they might be growing stronger on this - I would actually agree with you. The emissions at the top of the tower are...strange. I never felt something quite so focused before. And what happened to Libra is also just. I don't know. I don't understand it, and I'll admit it reminds me a little of what you all told me regarding Leon." (edited)
[4:38 PM] SwaDM: "I'm sure Neviltis does have a plan. To be honest, despite the lossees and hardships we suffered, it does feel a little bit...easy?"
[4:38 PM] SwaDM: "But - again. What else are we supposed to do?"
[4:39 PM] Kiran: "I don't know. I was kind of hoping you'd have an answer to that question. Because - I guess I've not felt very hopeful lately."
[4:40 PM] SwaDM: "Well, that party was...pleasant, but you've seen that morale isn't particularly sky high in general."
[4:40 PM] SwaDM: Spera shakes her head a little. "I'm not sure if I do."
[4:41 PM] Kiran: "Yeah. I'm sorry - I hadn't meant to just drop something unsolvable on you."
[4:41 PM] SwaDM: "Nothing is necessarely unsolvable, Kiran, especially with Neviltis. I've known him long enough to be aware that everything he does is for a reason."
[4:42 PM] SwaDM: "The issue is how he tends to plan things, I do suppose."
[4:43 PM] Kiran: "The morale thing... it means he's winning, even if he isn't."
[4:43 PM] Kiran: "I hate it."
[4:44 PM] SwaDM: "But what do you think he's winning? Because ultimately we are not altering worlds, Kiran."
[4:44 PM] SwaDM: "In the grand scheme of things, this is but a tiny skirmish at the borders of nothing. Neviltis isn't necesserely gaining a lot of power himself."
[4:44 PM] Kiran: "What happens when a Speran stops feeling hopeful? When all they have left is..."
[4:44 PM] Kiran: gestures up at the tower.
[4:45 PM] Kiran: "... struggle?"
[4:45 PM] SwaDM: "Well, what do you mean?"
[4:46 PM] Kiran: "If I feel less hopeful, do I become weaker? Does throwing myself into a struggle I'm not sure if I'll win - that I'm not sure if I hope I'll win, or believe I will - make me weaker? Make them stronger?"
[4:46 PM] SwaDM: "Do you feel as if you're getting weaker?"
[4:47 PM] Kiran: thinks back over the last couple of fights.
[4:47 PM] Kiran: "Maybe."
[4:47 PM] SwaDM: "Well, I've had reports of fatigue, certainly, but absolutely no one has come forth with me  saying that they've outright felt weaker."
[4:48 PM] Kiran: "Fair enough. Maybe it's just tiredness. I don't know."
[4:49 PM] SwaDM: "But regardless, as of what you asked regarding glimmer..."
[4:49 PM] SwaDM: "It...doesn't necessarely work like that? If you might remember, as you yourselves have said, you have had sudden outpourings and channelings of that energy when you were in particularly dire situations, no?"
[4:49 PM] SwaDM: "And you wouldn't be the only ones that reported either, it's rare, but it does happen."
[4:50 PM] Kiran: "Mm. I remember. Doesn't make sense to me sometimes, but I remember."
[4:51 PM] SwaDM: "The largest reports come when dealing with particularly significant voidal presence, I suppose."
[4:51 PM] SwaDM: "It did happen in the Sollene disaster, as an example."
[4:51 PM] Kiran: "Yeah. Not sure it's related to feeling hopeful. Or, if it is, who is feeling hopeful in that scenario."
[4:53 PM] Kiran: "Anyway. Thinking it through - if Neviltis is trying to force us to focus more on struggle and less on hope, I wonder if we can inspire hope in the Nevians somehow. Maybe counteract that somehow. Not that I have any idea how this works, on the grand scale."
[4:54 PM] SwaDM: "I'm...not really sure if that would even work, Kiran. We're at a conflict against one another, and our sides are inherently different. An in addition, if you will forgive me for saying this, it is up to each and one person to interpret it as they are. If they choose to see it as a grueling battle instead of the hope of recovering their friends and loved ones.."
[4:56 PM] Kiran: "I don't know. Was just thinking about Sebastian."
[4:56 PM] Kiran: "Do you think he feels more hopeful now he's been with us for a while, or less?"
[4:57 PM] SwaDM: "I...have no idea. Honestly, I'm...I didn't even want him...necessarely to stay, but at this point we needed all the help we can get. I cannot remotely get a read on him, if I am honest. I feel as if he is just constantly coasting by."
[4:59 PM] Kiran: "Maybe. I'd like to think that he's been convinced that things are better. More optimistic."
[5:00 PM] SwaDM: Spera manages a slight shrug, before shaking her head. "Still, I don't understand this particular focus of yours, Kiran."
[5:01 PM] SwaDM: "Regarding you thinking Neviltis is trying to weaken us. I just don't think that's true. Like I said, nobody has reported growing weaker in their manifestation of glimmer at all. Weaker in body due to fatigue or those strange...bouts of insomnia, yes, but not the weakening of glimmer."
[5:01 PM] Kiran: nods.
[5:01 PM] Kiran: "That was more philosophising than anything."
[5:01 PM] Kiran: "The thing that really worries me is..."
[5:02 PM] Kiran: "We've seen two people who felt like they couldn't win and kept fighting for too long now. Leon and Libra. And I'm worried what'll happen if we stop feeling hopeful, but fight anyway."
[5:03 PM] SwaDM: "...Hm. You all did bring this up a little bit when you came back. I  think you were asking if something like this ever happened to a Speran, no?"
[5:03 PM] Kiran: "We did, yeah."
[5:04 PM] SwaDM: "I certainly have never heard of somethng like it, no. The key point may be trying to identify why this happened with both of them, precisely."
[5:05 PM] Kiran: "Yeah. Maybe."
[5:06 PM] Kiran: "I just... yeah. I'm worried, Spera. Really worried."
[5:08 PM] Kiran: "I feel like there ought to be more to why we're doing what we're doing here. We're fighting to get our friends back, to make sure we can fight the Void. I'm just having trouble figuring... hope - you, I guess, into it. Where does who and what we are factor into it? Are we acting like Sperans should? Are we representing hope? Are we inspiring people that tomorrow will be brighter?"
[5:08 PM] Kiran: "We're not killing people. That feels like about it. Could we be doing more to inspire people? Could I?"
[5:09 PM] SwaDM: Spera does seem to take a moment to actually consider this, glancing back up towards the tower. She then looks back towards Kiran - and then back at the tower again, seeming to stew on the matter for a moment longer.
[5:09 PM] SwaDM: "Are you asking specifically about you - about Ardent?"
[5:10 PM] Kiran: "Yes. No. Honestly, I'll take whatever advice you've got."
[5:10 PM] SwaDM: "Then honestly?  No, I do not think you're doing the best you can."
[5:11 PM] SwaDM: "Remind me, why are you not causing fatalities purposefully in the first place?"
[5:11 PM] SwaDM: "...Oh heavens that - that came out wrong."
[5:11 PM] SwaDM: "I didn't - I didn't mean to imply that you should."
[5:11 PM] SwaDM: "I'm asking why."
[5:11 PM] SwaDM: "What is the root source of it?"
[5:12 PM] Kiran: takes a long moment, running through his mental approximations of his teammates.
[5:13 PM] Kiran: "Well... it probably varies a little, depending on who you ask."
[5:13 PM] Kiran: "But for me, it's because I don't think they should die for fighting for what they believe is the best chance to save Everyone."
[5:13 PM] Kiran: does his best to pronounce the capital E.
[5:14 PM] SwaDM: "Yes, but not...quite what I asked, Kiran. Correct me if I'm wrong - but I'm going off of what I observed, heard, and asked the SIB."
[5:14 PM] SwaDM: "Lous started it, didn't he?"
[5:14 PM] Kiran: "Yes."
[5:14 PM] SwaDM: "Would you have taken that path if he didn't?"
[5:15 PM] Kiran: "Right after they attacked us, I don't think I would have."
[5:15 PM] Kiran: "And I don't know if I'd still have the choice to stop now, if I hadn't."
[5:15 PM] SwaDM: Spera then nods again - afore continuing, though with a palpably more careful tone.
[5:16 PM] SwaDM: "And what you've done is already more then most would. I'm not going to deny this, Kiran. It takes great restraint. They...they hurt a lot of ouR people. They killed Linda. And Leon....I  don't know where or how Leon is." (edited)
[5:17 PM] SwaDM: "But I remember something he told me, when we...talked. In private. That he was in this  because he was done with this war. With all the death - all the pain that it caused. That he'd seek to solve it his own way. That he didn't want a single more death. One more ounce of suffering. Even if it was impossible."
[5:18 PM] SwaDM: "I think, for a lot of you, you fail to accout that the Nevians, though...taking dubious methods at times. And that some of them are indeed...foul. They're fighting for the same reason we are, in the grand scheme of things. I think - especially with Sandra, though a bit with you - and even Blake and many other agents, there is an inherent component of hatred that has certainly been lit by the Nevians."
[5:19 PM] SwaDM: "I know it happened back in the dimension the UFF was from too. How everything because demonized. Black and white. I think that in some ways, you are still persisting in this. I don't know if it would help or not, Kiran. But if you're talking about inspiring others, to try to let go off of that would aid at least you, if no one else."
[5:21 PM] Kiran: remains quiet for a few moments, eyes downcast.
[5:21 PM] Kiran: sighs quietly.
[5:22 PM] SwaDM: "I'm...sorry for the lecture. It's just that I've been grappling with this, too."
[5:23 PM] Kiran: "Yeah. Fuck. I'm not the right person for that."
[5:23 PM] SwaDM: "What do you mean?"
[5:24 PM] Kiran: "Solutions. Trying to figure out how to fix what you described."
[5:24 PM] Kiran: "I don't know how you help people let go of hate. What do you do with anger when every time you get rid of it, it comes back on the battlefield? I don't know how to help people not let it get at their hearts in the first place, but it feels like that's what we need."
[5:25 PM] Kiran: "Someone to help them learn how to let it wash over them and leave it behind."
[5:25 PM] SwaDM: Spera lets out a small sigh.
[5:25 PM] Kiran: "... to help me learn how to do that."
[5:25 PM] SwaDM: "Well. Leon did, but..."
[5:25 PM] SwaDM: "He's...not here anymore."
[5:26 PM] SwaDM: "I want to say Lous would, but truth be told, I'm not so sure of that myself."
[5:26 PM] SwaDM: "He's been steadfast. One of the biggest...proponents of what I've said, but - at the same time..."
[5:26 PM] SwaDM: "It feels as if he's tense."
[5:27 PM] Kiran: "I can't read him all that well. But being around him sometimes makes me nervous, when people talk about- well. You know."
[5:27 PM] SwaDM: Spera frowns, slightly. "Linda?"
[5:27 PM] Kiran: "Yes."
[5:27 PM] SwaDM: "...Yes. I think...he cared about her. A lot."
[5:28 PM] SwaDM: "Which is why I would not want to put this kind of pressure on him. I was the one that arranged him to visit one of his "sons" - well. His Sigvard, when it all happened, if you might remebmer."
[5:28 PM] SwaDM: "I'm glad I did. I don't think Lous would be as he is otherwise."
[5:30 PM] Kiran: nods.
[5:30 PM] Kiran: "Me too."
[5:30 PM] Kiran: huffs out a small breath.
[5:30 PM] Kiran: "Fuck."
[5:31 PM] SwaDM: "My main concerns, truth be told, are with Sandra."
[5:31 PM] SwaDM: "And others like her."
[5:31 PM] SwaDM: "May I confide in you, Kiran?"
[5:31 PM] Kiran: "Of course."
[5:31 PM] SwaDM: "I vehemently dissaprove of the path she's taking regarding this conflict."
[5:32 PM] SwaDM: "I think she has  been causing further friction then needed between both factions. She's the one with the largest logged kills, outright. And her approach to the Nevians has always been one of arrogance while underestimating them."
[5:33 PM] SwaDM: "Again, Leon was starting to guide her correctly, and then..."
[5:33 PM] Kiran: "I've found myself wishing I could confer nonlethality on weapons with my enchantments."
[5:33 PM] SwaDM: "The best one can do is buy scrolls for such a matter, I'm afraid."
[5:33 PM] SwaDM: "But it's not about killing, Kiran."
[5:34 PM] SwaDM: "Even I understand that no matter what, people will die."
[5:34 PM] SwaDM: "It's about intent."
[5:34 PM] Kiran: nods.
[5:34 PM] Kiran: "I... get where you're coming from."
[5:34 PM] Kiran: "Okay."
[5:35 PM] Kiran: nods again a few more times.
[5:35 PM] Kiran: "Okay."
[5:35 PM] Kiran: "I am... absolutely the wrong person for the job."
[5:35 PM] Kiran: "But I'll try. I'm going to see if I can put together some kind of..."
[5:35 PM] Kiran: utterly fails to find the words.
[5:36 PM] Kiran: "... group?"
[5:36 PM] Kiran: "Maybe people will feel better if they can talk openly about feeling angry. If they know they're not the only ones feeling that way."
[5:37 PM] Kiran: "Shit. I hope there's a book about this somewhere."
[5:37 PM] SwaDM: "Hm." (edited)
[5:37 PM] SwaDM: "Well, what one could do is..."
[5:38 PM] SwaDM: "I suppose there is some risk involved. But have a way where both Sperans and some of the Nevians we have captured...spend time together? Those receptive to it, anyway. Not all Nevians would do so, and that's fine."
[5:38 PM] SwaDM: "Because I'm reminded of Terminus, in specific."
[5:38 PM] Kiran: "That had been on my mind as well, because of Sebastian."
[5:38 PM] Kiran: "I'd wondered if any of the captives could... have their minds changed? Or at least see us as less the enemy."
[5:39 PM] Kiran: "And - yes. Vice versa."
[5:39 PM] SwaDM: "I think you're misinterpreting the Nevians slightly saying this, Kiran, and that's the point I've been trying to make."
[5:39 PM] SwaDM: "I sincerely doubt we can convert any of them to our cause. Leon and Sebastian are rarities that only happened because of very...specific tings. Similarly, what happened to Serco - being a former Speran. That's rare. That's very rare."
[5:40 PM] SwaDM: "And I don't think we're seen as naught but enemies by a fair ammount of them. Not all, granted."
[5:40 PM] Kiran: "I know that last part. Enemy is a stronger word than is appropriate, but it was the shortest." (edited)
[5:40 PM] SwaDM: "I think a lot of the Nevians understand why they're fighting and are focused on the why of it more then Sperans because of the choice they had to make in who to support."
[5:41 PM] SwaDM: "Truth be told, I think...I've made a mistake."
[5:41 PM] SwaDM: "When taking in members for our forces."
[5:41 PM] Kiran: "What do you mean?"
[5:41 PM] SwaDM: Spera seems to ponder for a moment ,before continuing. "I only contacted and ever called upon those that had innate kindness - earnest well-meaning in their hearts. If I could not find such, I would never put up the offer."
[5:42 PM] SwaDM: "Which...seemed like a good idea at the time. Neviltis, obivously, never had this particular inclination. He did not concern himself about that. But now that so many years have passed, I feel as if a lot of my agents have taken that as a great simplification of our conflict."
[5:42 PM] SwaDM: "About some point about the grand cosmic morality of things."
[5:43 PM] Kiran: tilts his head.
[5:43 PM] SwaDM: "And by doing that, I think I also...made it so those that could be convinced of such beliefs to instead work for the Nevians."
[5:44 PM] Kiran: "I... didn't realise you'd done that."
[5:44 PM] SwaDM: "Like I said. I do not like Sebastian. But that shouldn't...matter."
[5:44 PM] SwaDM: "And yes, I did, Kiran."
[5:45 PM] SwaDM: Spera frowns once more. "I knew...precious little of people. How they worked, back all those years ago. And I still don't. But certainly not to the level of simplicity that I saw things in those times."
[5:46 PM] Kiran: "Is there anyone still out there in the worlds who you didn't approach that you would now? Do you think they'd still accept?"
[5:46 PM] SwaDM: Spera shakes her head.
[5:46 PM] SwaDM: "Not at this junction."
[5:46 PM] SwaDM: "Neviltis approached them instead."
[5:47 PM] Kiran: "Ah."
[5:47 PM] Kiran: "Maybe it'd help for you to join the group too."
[5:48 PM] SwaDM: "It might at least help if part of me "sits in", I suppose..." (edited)
[5:48 PM] Kiran: "For you, I mean. And everyone else."
[5:48 PM] SwaDM: "I know, Kiran." (edited)
[5:49 PM] SwaDM: "Still, you understand my point, yes? About trying to see the Nevians not so much as enemies as..."
[5:49 PM] SwaDM: "I don't know what I'd call them."
[5:49 PM] SwaDM: "...Maybe just...people."
[5:50 PM] SwaDM: "Because ultimately, this is going to end. One side will triumph over the other. And I think that'll matter a lot."
[5:50 PM] Kiran: "Well. The thing is that I'm not angry about who they are. I'm angry because of what they've done. It's not like I'm angry because people thought of them as enemies. I figure it's probably the same for the others, that they started thinking more of them as enemies after the attack."
[5:51 PM] Kiran: "I know they're people. I know they don't deserve to die for trying to save the multiverse. But that doesn't make me less hurt by what they chose."
[5:51 PM] SwaDM: "Which might've been the reason for the attack."
[5:52 PM] SwaDM: "Or at least a part of it."
[5:52 PM] SwaDM: "...And ultimately, who killed Linda was Serco. It wasn't all the Nevians. Much like whoever captured Leon wasn't all the Nevians, either."
[5:52 PM] SwaDM: "Well - Serco or...Neviltis. I still don't know who. That presence of glimmer was just - odd." (edited)
[5:54 PM] Kiran: "I remember you saying."
[5:55 PM] Kiran: "Any ideas how to get the captives together with our people?..."
[5:55 PM] Kiran: "I guess we could do some kind of... sport. Or a quiz night?..."
[5:56 PM] SwaDM: "I have zero clue. I don't exactly want to free the captives. Maybe pick specific ones...?"
[5:56 PM] Kiran: "Hm. I'm going to have to talk with Timmy."
[5:57 PM] SwaDM: "Ashley might know some of them too, I guess?"
[5:57 PM] Kiran: "Ashley's a good call."
[5:57 PM] Kiran: "Alright. Timmy, Ashley, integration, and some kind of group talking thing. I can work on those."
[5:58 PM] Kiran: "... and being less angry."
[5:58 PM] SwaDM: "Yes."
[5:59 PM] SwaDM: "I hope you understand my points."
[5:59 PM] SwaDM: "It's what I could make sense of regarding your concern about "Hope" and "Struggle"."
[6:01 PM] Kiran: "I do. I don't feel entirely better yet, but..."
[6:01 PM] Kiran: "I always function better when I have things to do."
[6:02 PM] SwaDM: "I can understand that, yes."
[6:02 PM] Kiran: "Thanks for talking with me, Spera."
[6:02 PM] SwaDM: "Thanks for coming to me, really. I enjoy conversing, Kiran."
[6:03 PM] Kiran: will take his leave - to find some books and figure some things out.