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Juushichi

Bells and Whistles

Juushichi
Feb 6th, 2015
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  1. 12:49 *** Juushichi joined #PMBR [email protected]
  2. alakadoof
  3. Topic set by *.GameSurge.net on Mon Jan 26 2015 14:59:32 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
  4. 12:49 <Juushichi> hi
  5. 12:56 <Calabrel_work> Sup Juu
  6. 13:03 <standardtoaster> GHNeko: https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-1/10624689_1455714874709667_4528970676452173214_n.jpg?oh=a2a5cbd4b8ceb019ed258d635e924138&oe=555EF487&__gda__=1431245590_92adf869d65118bec168593fcdaeab9e
  7. 13:04 <Dantbot> monk has m2k in his socks
  8. 13:14 <GMaster> ???
  9. 13:15 <Calabrel_work> Juushichi: Glad you agree with me. I'm getting so annoyed with people saying Project M has lost its "bells and whistles" or whatever phrase has been being used.
  10. 13:15 <Calabrel_work> Diddy has 0 kill power because he doesn't have a super buffed out Sheik fair now
  11. 13:15 <Calabrel_work> .... right.
  12. 13:16 <camelot> that basically just refers to the overall power, versatility, and uniqueness of moves
  13. 13:16 <Calabrel_work> Diddy's fair is a stronger spacie bair, I designed it myself. How is that not kill power?
  14. 13:16 <jingjong> maybe they just want characters to be easy to pick up again?
  15. 13:16 <jingjong> and not have to learn spacie matchups?
  16. 13:16 <Calabrel_work> ^
  17. 13:16 <Calabrel_work> I feel like that's what's going on.
  18. 13:16 <Calabrel_work> The first line.
  19. 13:17 <Calabrel_work> Not necessarily the second, that's a bit unrelated.
  20. 13:17 <jingjong> drpp, armada, hbox, amsa have all proved that you can beat spacies with non spacie characters
  21. 13:17 <jingjong> so as long as we make characters that are like.. as good as marth shouldnt we be fine?
  22. 13:18 <Calabrel_work> And I realize this is coming from the Falco thread, but mine was a more general question.
  23. 13:19 <Calabrel_work> Why do people think Project M lost its flair.
  24. 13:19 <Calabrel_work> If said people think Project M should be about jank like hover out of up-b, or Pit d-throw to everything at any percent
  25. 13:20 <Calabrel_work> Or Diddy should fair a fast faller at 40 percent and kill them
  26. 13:20 <camelot> those are kind of extreme examples
  27. 13:20 <Calabrel_work> Those are the only things lost.
  28. 13:20 <Calabrel_work> YOu say they're extreme, and you're right, but those are the only things we took away.
  29. 13:20 <Calabrel_work> That's my point.
  30. 13:20 <camelot> not really
  31. 13:20 <Calabrel_work> Why say its lost its flair when we only removed the extreme examples.
  32. 13:20 <Calabrel_work> That's why I'm asking what people are talking about then.
  33. 13:20 <camelot> a general reduction to effectiveness swept most of the cast
  34. 13:21 <camelot> and zss might be the worst example of "bells and whistles" being taken away
  35. 13:21 <Calabrel_work> No one wanted that.
  36. 13:21 <Calabrel_work> Except Oro
  37. 13:22 <camelot> and yeroc
  38. 13:22 <camelot> as a last-minute change
  39. 13:22 <Calabrel_work> Right.
  40. 13:22 <camelot> same shit that happened with diddy going into 3.02 right?
  41. 13:22 <Calabrel_work> That should have never happened, I agree.
  42. 13:23 <Calabrel_work> It's like Oro wanted to quickly buff ZSS in his own image of her, last minute, and thank fuck we jumped in there and at least said that what he was proposing was absurd, let's at least balance it.
  43. 13:23 <Calabrel_work> And now he's all pissy
  44. 13:23 <Calabrel_work> That whole situation pisses me off immensely.
  45. 13:24 <Calabrel_work> She's better than she was, and IMO didn't need a buff.
  46. 13:24 <Calabrel_work> But now she's more boring.
  47. 13:24 <camelot> yeah that's the problem with recent character changes
  48. 13:24 <camelot> balance needs to be set aside for a second
  49. 13:25 <Calabrel_work> What's another example of a character being boring now in the case of balance?
  50. 13:25 <camelot> meta knight?
  51. 13:25 <Calabrel_work> I'll give you that one.
  52. 13:26 <camelot> toon link?
  53. 13:26 <camelot> maybe not as much
  54. 13:26 <camelot> lunchables straight up dropped him though
  55. 13:27 <Calabrel_work> Hard for me to comment on Tink, he's not all that incredibly different
  56. 13:27 <Calabrel_work> And I've always found him boring
  57. 13:27 <camelot> yeah i think that's part of the problem
  58. 13:27 <Juushichi> diddy going into 3.02 was grandfathered in like old zelda builds, camelot
  59. 13:27 <camelot> he wasn't very interesting to most people to begin with
  60. 13:28 <Juushichi> guru swept in, changed some things and said "you guys don't understand diddy" and we let it rock
  61. 13:28 <camelot> like old zelda builds?
  62. 13:29 <Juushichi> also tbh, i think TL has never really been a particularly interesting character. he blurred the line w/ stupid shit and he was a 5x better YL so idk
  63. 13:29 <Calabrel_work> In which there were one or two developers working on her not really even looking for feedback
  64. 13:29 <Juushichi> also the only relevant people playing TL prior to 3.02 were like jolt and lunch anyway
  65. 13:29 <Calabrel_work> And we were too complacent to call them on it.
  66. 13:29 <Juushichi> so it's not like that character was ever popular
  67. 13:29 <Juushichi> jolt and i barely got people back here to look twice at him lol
  68. 13:30 <Calabrel_work> There's that SoCal guy, but yeah, doesn't change your point.
  69. 13:30 <Juushichi> MK i think is only good + boring (Sm4sh, PM) or retarded, good, "why don't you play this character?" (3.02, Brawl)
  70. 13:31 <Juushichi> though the people who dropped mk around here (fumbles, tako) are picking him back up
  71. 13:33 <Juushichi> also man leelue <3
  72. 13:34 <Calabrel_work> I'm glad Leelue is posting again, I'm gonna see if I can get him in here..
  73. 13:34 <Dantbot> Why are freaks sending death threats on the new model/skeleton. But if people want to know several people were talking about dust clouds
  74. 13:35 <Calabrel_work> LOL
  75. 13:35 <Calabrel_work> I still think MK would have been fine with reduced velocity dair
  76. 13:35 <Calabrel_work> Or...
  77. 13:35 <Calabrel_work> a dair that acted like Pit's dair
  78. 13:35 <Calabrel_work> popped people up
  79. 13:36 <Calabrel_work> Instead we have a useless move
  80. 13:36 <Calabrel_work> IMO
  81. 13:36 <Calabrel_work> Pretty much inferior to nair in every way
  82. 13:36 <camelot> apparently that was the idea, to give him a "weakness when above opponents"
  83. 13:36 <camelot> or something
  84. 13:38 <Juushichi> imo still a good weakness
  85. 13:38 <standardtoaster> camelot: i think lunchables was considering dropping toon link or at least making him a secondary long before 3.5 was out
  86. 13:38 <standardtoaster> he's always loved using roy
  87. 13:38 <Juushichi> but... man if there's a character i think we made boring and ??? - tier
  88. 13:38 <Juushichi> i am glad you brought up pit
  89. 13:38 <Juushichi> because i don't know what to think about that character
  90. 13:38 <Calabrel_work> Juushichi, do you mind pastebinning this "bells and whistles" convo? Pastebin acts stupid at work for me.
  91. 13:39 <Juushichi> sure
  92. 13:39 <camelot> toaster so 3.5 just hammered the last nail in the coffin then
  93. 13:39 <Calabrel_work> I'm gonna pass this off to Leelue, who will be in here as soon as he can.
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