22:10 < nate> Pretty sure if goat was going to threaten peoples lives he would have threatened mine by now considering the shit I've said to him
22:10 < nate> lol
22:11 < nate> Anyways this is kind of what I was trying to say last night
22:12 < nate> our literal channel op base to handle ban-worthy things at the moment is mainly gamesurge staff which... technically seems silly :P
22:15 <@Ryan> nate gs staff aren't protecting the channel in any way, i have history with tiggs from before this channel
22:16 < nate> Ryan: I'm aware, I just meant that we have two ops, you and tiggs, and tiggs has basically made clear she's just here to sit in the channel and keep it 'Owned' by G1, which
              means you're basically our sole op for the most part :P
22:17 < Progeekzy> well, theres matt that i guess could step in if needed
22:18 < nate> Isn't that the same case though?  GS staff :P
22:18 < Progeekzy> ya true lol
22:19 < nate> Though I imagine he'd primarily step in against goat since goat's violating network policy with his evadings, but regular stuff I'm not sure, general rule of thumb of IRC is
              normally IRCops (or similar) don't moderate channels they have no access in
22:19 < Progeekzy> but maybe G1 dosent want just anyone oped in here. im saying, i prob wont be oped in here cause im not a forum mod or anything. im a nobody, just a fan
22:20 < Progeekzy> so picking people to represent G1 in a now G1 APB official channel, cant just pick anyone
22:20 < nate> Progeekzy: Well of course they don't, tiggs has already stated that G1 more or less has no interest in officially providing a community presence for IRC like they do other
              mediums
22:20 < nate> Which was one of the gripes last night (which lessobvious could have put better if he wasn't drunk)
22:21 < Progeekzy> which, honestly, is there right.
22:22 < Progeekzy> G1 dosent care about this channel in the same way opthers do. There only conearn was, stop others from using it. They did that. There interest in the channel starts and
                   ends there

22:25 < nate> You and I have different opinions about "rights", you also seem to probably be under the same belief as Tiggs that legal claim can work when it won't necessarily
22:26 < Progeekzy> you are under the beleif that they had zero right or claim to this channel at all and dreams should still be running it
22:27 < nate> Not at all, I'm under the awareness and experience that most networks will acknowledge a project/product/etc owner in request of taking a channel if it's being misused or
              being represented incorrectly
22:27 < Progeekzy> which this was
22:27 < nate> I'm also however under the awareness and experience that quite a many other networks in this situation would tell tiggs that she can't simply squat a channel claiming IP
              rights, either use it or leave it back to the community (someone they know wouldn't represent the channel incorrectly)
22:28 < nate> Only real notable exception to that would probably be freenode with their # vs ## naming policy (where # channels are always reserved for 'official' capacity regardless)
22:28 < matt> jesus christ, people are still talking about the whole issue about channel ownership/rights?
22:28 < Progeekzy> lol
22:29 < Progeekzy> last thing ill actually say about who had rights who didint whatever
22:29 < Progeekzy> its done. its over. G1 won and they can do anything they want or dont want with this channel now
22:29 < Progeekzy> its theres
22:33 < nate> I don't understand why you're so up in G1's ass on all this stuff, kissing up.  Do you hope they'll make you a GM or something?  Doesn't change the fact the takeover was done
              mainly on bull information, and now it's being squatted for an otherwise lack of actual use
22:33 < nate> We went from a channel that quite literally sure had it's idiots, but actually -did- provide assistance and help to people to a channel now 'Officially' owned giving no
              support at all, official or otherwise
22:33 < nate> Kinda seems silly
22:33 < Progeekzy> im actually not trying to kiss up, or however you wish to colorfully put it
22:34 < Progeekzy> its kinda afact and a mute point
22:34 < Progeekzy> they wanted it. they got it. its over with
22:34 < nate> moot, point, and thanks for more or less reinforcing my point lol
22:34 < Progeekzy> theres no undo ctrl z at this point so arguing who was right blah blah it kinda pointles
22:34  * nate shrugs

22:35 < Progeekzy> and you dont seem to get they dont have to do anything with this channel
22:35 < Progeekzy> if they wanted to close it off completly they could have
22:35 < nate> Who doesn't?  G1?  Of course they do, they "own" it now, they -should- have something to with it
22:35 < nate> And sure thehy could have, they might as well have
22:35 < Progeekzy> the fact that its still open at all and not +i
22:36 < Progeekzy> should have is your opinion
22:36 < Progeekzy> they dont have to
22:36 < Progeekzy> again, what they wanted to do and what they should do is 2 different things
22:36 < nate> ... that's kind of what should implies
22:36 < Progeekzy> ok let me try that again
22:37 < Progeekzy> again, what they wanted to do and what you think they should do is 2 different things
22:37 < nate> Dude okay look nevermind, lol, best of luck on getting your GM, I get it, you're a tiggs fan, you've made your G1 fandom clear, probably to the point you were the one who
              filed the original complaints against the channel, I don't care at this point
22:37 < nate> Facts is this channel is dead and largely because the channel feels uncomfortable to people now
22:37 < nate> it might as well be closed
22:37 < Progeekzy> what they wanted to do, was stop people from mis representing them
22:37 < Progeekzy> they did that
22:37 < nate> and that's rather sad considering how long this channel has been around
22:37 < nate> Yes and there are many ways that could have been done
22:37 < nate> without otherwise killing off the channel effectively anyways
22:38 < nate> simply a variety of ways this shit could have been handled that wouldn't have resulted in this channel otherwise being defunct now :/
22:38 < Progeekzy> ok what are you ultimatly upset about?
22:38 < Progeekzy> that they took it over?
22:38 < Progeekzy> that dreams no longer has it?
22:39 < Progeekzy> that noone seems to care about it anymore?
22:39 < matt> nate: There was no "bull information" they always had the right to this channel.
22:39 < matt> nor was it a takeover
22:39 < nate> matt: The bull information was the claims that we were "hacking people" and "stealing accounts" (her original generalization)
22:39 < matt> that had 0 things to do with the ownership change
22:40 < matt> it if influenced their decision to request ownership, that's another story, but still their right, even if it didn't happen
22:40 < Progeekzy> matt, actually, maybe not on your end, but it kinda did in a way
22:40 < Progeekzy> ya, that
22:40 < nate> Matt: that was like, her primary reason for coming here and taking the channel
22:40 < Progeekzy> there were complaints that that was happening which made G1 care about the channel
22:41 < nate> She still could have handled things in a way that didn't result in this channel ending up an effective swampland of death
22:41 < Progeekzy> how so?
22:41 < Progeekzy> she took it over. there was rage from dreams and goat. she locked it to prevent the rage
22:42 < nate> Progeekzy: Just about every single other path that didn't result in her walking in and taking the channel
22:42 < Progeekzy> you didint want her to take the channel?
22:42 < Progeekzy> lol
22:42 < nate> Dreams was mainly pissed because she didn't even bother to talk to him (or well anyone in here) about the claims
22:42 < Progeekzy> she didint have to?
22:42 < Progeekzy> it was hers, or G1s, to take. and they did
22:42 < Progeekzy> if you steal my car and the cops track you down, should i have to ask you for the keys?
22:43 < Progeekzy> kinda the same thing
22:43 < nate> Alright how about you just stay out of the conversation at this point and leave my responses purely for Matt, you've made your complete G1 fandom clear, we get it already,
              there is nothing possibly they can or have done wrong

22:43 < Progeekzy> lol whatever dude
22:43 < nate> You've done nothing but defend every -single- thing she's done despite many of them being ignorant
22:44 < nate> no she didn't "have" to, sure, but she should have, I think this channel and some of us in it have been here long enough to earn that much
22:44 < Progeekzy> inorant, according to you
22:44 < nate> No, ignorant, period
22:44 < Progeekzy> lol
22:44 < nate> She comes in here broadly generalizing us all as account hackers and exploiters
22:44 < Progeekzy> your one of those people that your opinion is law.
22:44 < nate> She's either ignorant or she shouldn't probably be a community manager with that kind of logic
22:44 < nate> No I'm one of those people who don't give a shit to being called out on stuff
22:45 < nate> more so stuff with absolutely 0 evidence given and an expectation that we're supposed to trust her personal word 100%
22:45 < Progeekzy> i have an idea. if you dont like how things went, leave. go start your own channel. go join goats other fake channel.
22:45 < nate> I have no interest of joining goats channel, I don't like goat, if you actually paid attention to stuff I've said instead of simply going all tiggs fanboy, you'd know this
22:46 < nate> Hell banning goat is about the only thing I've actually approved of her doing completely because it was a long time coming
22:49 < nate> Progeekzy: It's like having a friend with a clubhouse somewhere that you hung out at for years, chilling with people, and then the government just waltzes in with some silly
              excuses, calls everyone a criminal and claims eminent domain, you're gonna say you wouldn't be the slightest bit pissed?
22:49 < nate> You would walk up to the government officials and just shake their hand and be "Sure cool"?
22:49 < Progeekzy> ok, dude, i get that
22:49 < Progeekzy> but from my understanding the only person that was really banned was goat, right?
22:49 < Progeekzy> i mean
22:49 < Progeekzy> whats stopping everyone from coming back?
22:50 < Progeekzy> throw some pain on the walls, mop the floor. replace some lights. good as new
22:50 < Progeekzy> paint*
22:51 < nate> No technically dreamss and kimiko got banned primarily for getting pissed about the claims against them/us and still are as far as I'm aware, now lessobvious (though he was
              dumb cause he got drunk and decided that would be a good time to speak his concerns as well)
22:52 < nate> My concerns are pretty much the same, I simply don't handle them in an all out rage-mode like they had
22:52 < Progeekzy> i have no idea who kimiko is, so i wont speak on that
22:53 < Progeekzy> dreams i can kinda understand getting banned. he was the one running the channel and the one that opted goat. i would have banned him to.
22:53 < Progeekzy> obvious, he dug that hole himself
22:53 < nate> I mean don't get me wrong matt, nor ryan, I think you know well I got nothing against you guys or GS even, I just think this could have been handled significantly more
              appropriately, I get the feeling the fact there was a history/friendship with tiggs though probably didn't help any
22:54 < nate> Progeekzy: Tbh that's actually one of the most obscene parts about this
22:54 < nate> cause that was like literally
22:54 < nate> a random ass moment of "Op everyone day"
22:54 < nate> that happened just as she came to take shit over
22:54 < nate> so
22:54 < nate> lol
22:54 < Progeekzy> dude, no
22:54 < Progeekzy> when i was in here months ago goat was oped
22:54 < Progeekzy> and it was like 4 or 5 people oped
22:54 < nate> it wasn't perma though, whats her name uh
22:55 < nate> I forget already
22:55 < nate> one of goat's fangirls
22:55 < nate> (though not nearly as visibly fangirl back then admittedly)
22:55 < nate> op'd him every once in a while
22:55 < nate> I think it was poedgirl who usually de-op'd him though

22:55 < nate> poedgirl generally did a decent job of keeping goat in his place
22:56 < Progeekzy> i think the bottom line here, really, is them claiming it was official when it wasent and G1 not likeing it
22:56 < Progeekzy> regardless of reasons why, who diidnt like it, who got banned, whatever
22:56 < nate> Except we technically never did in -here-
22:57 < nate> You found one place in the forums where dreamss did it
22:57 < nate> and amusingly not a single G1 staff even corrected him on it at the time
22:57 < Progeekzy> who cares hwere he did it?
22:57 < nate> This channel by all intents and even by the topic, was denoted, unofficial
22:57 < nate> I think I do, seeing as we in here made clear that it wasn't official
22:57 < Progeekzy> he stated, on the G1 forums, that it was official
22:58 < nate> Again, fine, that would have been more considerably notable if G1 staff would have responded and been like "Yeah no sorry it isn't"
22:58 < nate> But it seems at that point in time even they didn't entirely care
22:59 < Progeekzy> this is his post, word for word, its a copy paste
22:59 < nate> (And I'm sure multiple G1 staff had to have seen the post)
22:59 < Progeekzy> Come chat (or flame) in the APB Official IRC Channel
22:59 < nate> Irrelevant, you are the only person who pointed it out, and you aren't G1 staff, that alone is irrelevant mainly to the reasons this channel was taken, it was the claims that
              we were largely exploiters and account hackers in here
23:00 < nate> Which pissed people off, properly at that
23:00 < Progeekzy> irrelevant?
23:00 < Progeekzy> you say they never said or claimed it was official
23:00 < Progeekzy> i point out they did
23:00 < nate> No I said in HERE they never did
23:00 < Progeekzy> and for reasons it dosent matter

23:00 < nate> That is not IN HERE
23:00 < nate> Forums != IRC
23:00 < Progeekzy> i dont care where he said it
23:00 < nate> Of course you don't
23:01 < Progeekzy> fact is he said it
23:01 < nate> because it works to -your- argument
23:01 < Progeekzy> im done talking to a brick wall
23:01 < Progeekzy> i have far more important things to do
23:01 < nate> Alright fine you're so intent on using the forum as evidence, how do we know that post wasn't edited by someone just to use as an excuse like you are?
23:01 < nate> Dreamss isn't exactly here to defend himself
23:01 < Progeekzy> hahahahhahahahhahahhahhah now your making jokes. good one
23:01 < nate> Because he got banned for getting pissed that he was effectively called an exploiter and account hacker
23:02 < nate> No I'm making a completely possible topic
23:02 < nate> Are you a forum moderator?  Do you have access to the database?  Can you 100% guarentee me with evidence that it wasn't?
23:02 < nate> You're so intent on using that single one post as evidence to this
23:02 < Progeekzy> why in the heck would they eidt that?
23:02 < nate> despite it being irrelevant to what I said
23:03 < Progeekzy> go away. you are wasting my time now
23:03 <@RawrTiggs> !kb nate
23:03 -!- mode/#apb [+b *!*@nate.user.gamesurge] by ChanServ
23:03 -!- nate was kicked from #apb by ChanServ [(RawrTiggs) Bye.]