Zabbix IRC Logs Leaked

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Leaked IRC logs exposed by UnitedSecTeam


--- Log opened Sun Apr 03 00:00:40 2016
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12:50 <zabbixbot> [ZBX-10610] SELinux breaks agent modules created by Ryan Armstrong/ryan.armstrong (https://support.zabbix.com/browse/ZBX-10610)
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13:08 <cavaliercoder> volter: I hope you are well! Do you think you will be able to progress with https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1269204 ?
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13:14 <volter> cavaliercoder: In the face of modules being dependent to whatever they were compiled for, since there is no API/ABI, I wonder if that would even work.
13:16 <volter> https://support.zabbix.com/browse/ZBXNEXT-3174
13:17 <cavaliercoder> Thanks volter, but that is a different issue.
13:17 <volter> Well, why would you want me to provide something that could lead to subsequent error?
13:17 <cavaliercoder> The issue listed in bugzilla is because the zabbix yum repo, and EPEL use different package names for the zabbix agent
13:17 <volter> Yes, I understand what you are asking for.
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13:18 <cavaliercoder> That is easy to fix using a `Requires` in the module psec file
13:18 <cavaliercoder> spec*
13:18 <cavaliercoder> ah hang on...
13:19 <volter> You would specify a version there?
13:19 <cavaliercoder> If I understand you correctly, fixing the epel package name issue will introduce problems for modules compiled to v2, being installed with a v3 agent and vice versa?
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13:21 <volter> From what I have heard, a module compiled with version x.y.z may no longer work with x.y.z+1.
13:21 <volter> That's why I mentioned the ABI ticket.
13:22 <volter> The only consideration I have packaging-wise, is, if zabbix22-agent whould then be considered an update for zabbix-agent. I'd have to check that.
13:22 <cavaliercoder> Yes, e.g. https://support.zabbix.com/browse/ZBX-10428.
13:22 <zabbix> ZBX-10428 Open Updated 16 days ago -- Loadable module compatibility broken
13:23 <volter> Exactly
13:24 <volter> So, you are suggesting to have something like the following in your spec file? Requires: zabbix-agent = 3.0.1
13:24 <cavaliercoder> Cool, I agree then this should go on hold until that is resolved. Please note that it remains an issue for repo.zabbix.com packages.
13:24 <volter> Yes, the unfortunate state is, that modules are not really ready for packaging.
13:24 <cavaliercoder> yes, `Requires: zabbix-agent >= 3 <= 4` or something along those lines
13:24 <volter> Well, that _should_ be safe.
13:26 <cavaliercoder> So this currently works with the repo.zabbix.com packages: https://github.com/cavaliercoder/libzbxpgsql/blob/master/packaging/rpmbuild/libzbxpgsql.spec#L26
13:26 <cavaliercoder> Just not EPEL because of the naming conflict. If EPEL packages were built with `Provides: zabbix-agent`, this issue is fixed
13:27 <cavaliercoder> Then the v2/v3 compatibility issue comes into plat
13:27 <cavaliercoder> which the ABI would fix
13:28 <cavaliercoder> That packageis deployed about 50 times per week from SourceForge so seems to be okay. But it does suffer for EPEL users and also anyone enforcing SELinux.
13:30 <cavaliercoder> I should ask, is there any other reason modules are not considered ready for packaging?
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13:35 <Richlv> <cavaliercoder> The issue listed in bugzilla is because the zabbix yum repo, and EPEL use different package names for the zabbix agent
13:35 <Richlv> you might want to vote on https://support.zabbix.com/browse/ZBX-7996 :D
13:36 <Richlv> https://zabbix.org/wiki/Appeal_against_public_upstream_packaging provides more background
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13:45 <cavaliercoder> Thanks for linking those richlv. I had a TL;DR skim through. The appeal against packaging has some fair arguments and I agree this current issue is an example of the problem...
13:45 <cavaliercoder> but!
13:45 <cavaliercoder> If you stop providing packages, or let these bugs go ignored, people will stop installing Zabbix
13:47 <cavaliercoder> I kinda just need to know if this issue will be fixed, as I have users wanting an outcome. if not, that's okay and I understand why. But the workaround will be pretty dirty.
13:48 <cavaliercoder> I'll have to create separate rpms for architecture, osver, zabbix version (due to ZBX-10428) AND EPEL/repo.zabbix compat (due to EPEL request).
13:48 <zabbix> ZBX-10428 Open Updated 16 days ago -- Loadable module compatibility broken
13:56 <Richlv> cavaliercoder, that's why i suggest to work together with the packagers, not ignore them and have worse quality packages in the end :)
13:57 <Richlv> having two repos with different packages sucks
13:57 <cavaliercoder> I'm confused... who are the packagers? Who would you like me to work with?
13:57 <Richlv> would love to see common effort to have great epel packages
13:57 <volter> cavaliercoder: The reason is, that you have to build the module in-source.
13:58 <Richlv> zabbix repo packagers to work with distro packagers, and create great distro packages, instead of having their own version :)
13:58 <Richlv> (which usually is having more issues than the distro ones, because there's not enough time to do everything twice)
13:59 <cavaliercoder> So if I understand you correctly, you would prefer the RH/CentOS package teams to do the work?
13:59 <cavaliercoder> with support from us?
14:01 <Richlv> no, i would like for the cooperation to happen within the distro framework
14:02 <Richlv> while zabbix could and probably should host their own version for customers and other users that are interested
14:02 <Richlv> see my comments in that issue, they summarise things mostly :)
14:04 <cavaliercoder> Who do you mean by "the distro framework"?
14:04 <cavaliercoder> My understanding is that the EPEL packages and repo.zabbix.com are both packaged and published by Zabbix SIA yes? Except the EPEL package must pass the EPEL community standards.
14:05 <xmj> boy am i glad we don't have this problem in the BSD world
14:07 <cavaliercoder> Man... someone please give me a name and I'll work with them to do whatever it takes to make these packages work. But I don't know who "the packagers" or the "distro framework" is. The only packages I've ever seen are repo.zabbix.com and epel (where my bug was assigned to volter)
14:08 <cavaliercoder> If Zabbix need better engagement with some other org to improve the Zabbix packages, can we address that separately?
14:16 <Richlv> <cavaliercoder> My understanding is that the EPEL packages and repo.zabbix.com are both packaged and published by Zabbix SIA yes?
14:16 <Richlv> that is exactly what people from the community are asking for ;)
14:16 <Richlv> unfortunately, no
14:16 <Richlv> epel, debian and others had their packages for a long time
14:17 <Richlv> zabbix forked thse and created their own repo. further improvements from the distros were not brought in the zabbi repo
14:17 <cavaliercoder> okay so who runs repo.zabbix?
14:17 <Richlv> so now they are different packages. although zabbix repo originated from distros, it has diverged now.
14:17 <Richlv> all this, of course, pisses off community distro maintainers
14:18 <Richlv> and results in extra work for zabbix and packagers
14:18 <Richlv> and creates problems, like the one you spotted :/
14:18 <volter> Just to clarify it "in-source" doesn't make it impossible, of course, but tedious and ugly.
14:18 <Richlv> cavaliercoder, zabbix does. but there's no collabroation with distro packagers at all
14:18 <cavaliercoder> volter: can you please clarify by what you mean by in-source?
14:19 <Richlv> again, to me the only sane solution is zabbix working with the distros to have great distro packages
14:19 <Richlv> and then, as needed, mirroring those packages in a custom repo
14:19 <cavaliercoder> richlv: cool. The reason I'm confused is that my bugzilla issue in EPEL was assigned to volter
14:19 <Richlv> cavaliercoder, sure, volter is the awesome epel packager :)
14:19 <Richlv> cavaliercoder, but zabbix repo issues won't be resolved in bugzilla
14:20 <volter> cavaliercoder: That refers to not having a zabbix-devel package, but having to extract the Zabbix sources during the build process for modules.
14:20 <Richlv> unrelated, but i almost got bitten by https://support.zabbix.com/browse/ZBXNEXT-551
14:20 <cavaliercoder> volter: thanks, that makes perfect sense. I see what you mean then in that packaging is not yet "safe"
14:20 <Richlv> it's almost like an intentional trap :)
14:20 <volter> I absolutely agree with what Richlv says, and Kodai did approach me on something recently, which I find good.
14:22 <volter> The issue with having 2.4 packages in EPEL though, was, that it involves some effort to get a "new" package into EPEL. 2.4 was always known to not live long.
14:22 <Richlv> volter, hooray !
14:22 <Richlv> and i use exclamation points rarely
14:22 <volter> Hehe
14:22 <Richlv> Kodai++ :)
14:22 <zabbix> Karma for Kodai is now 6
14:23 <volter> So, within EPEL, it will probably always be hard to provide the latest and greatest (of a new series).
14:23 <Richlv> volter, what is the extra effort for that ?
14:23 <cavaliercoder> So... volter, you work for Zabbix SIA yes?
14:23 <Richlv> cavaliercoder, no :)
14:23 <Richlv> cavaliercoder, he's just the community ninja
14:23 <volter> However, if the z.com packages would stick closer to the EPEL versions, that would help in some cases.
14:23 <Richlv> (because they have a dreadful reputation)
14:24 <cavaliercoder> Oh it all makes sense now
14:24 <volter> As you can see, things are difficult! :)
14:25 <volter> (EPEL is a repo targeting RH, maintained by Fedora contributors)
14:25 <cavaliercoder> And you are a Fedora contributor?
14:25 <volter> By the way, there is some effort to losen EPEL policy, at least to allow for upgrades in sync with RH minor releases.
14:25 <volter> Yes
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14:27 <Richlv> volter, so what is the extra effort to get something like 2.4 or 3.2 in epel ?
14:27 <Richlv> as a separate package, of course
14:27 <Richlv> like zabbix24 or zabbix32
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14:38 <cavaliercoder> volter richlv: Cool. Thanks for clearing things up.
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15:30 <volter> Richlv: A package review in the first place.
15:30 <volter> And when it goes EOL, I have to manage that somehow too.
15:30 <volter> And it's yet another bit in the ever-expanding matrix.
15:31 <volter> (I have to maintain between 3 and 4 versions of Fedora too)
15:32 <volter> cavaliercoder: I will however consider your query. I became _very_ conservative with introducing seemingly harmless changes though. I cut myself once too often.
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15:33 <volter> Richlv: Ad ZBXNEXT-551: That's what I was trying to emphasize durch my Actionsim talk.
15:33 <Richlv> volter, yeah. if kodai would join, that would surely help. i could also try and find some time for this, at least with testing and maybe some simpler things for now
15:33 <Richlv> !i
15:33 <zabbixbot> [ZBXNEXT-551] Display a message when action is disabled automatically when we delete something it references (URL: https://support.zabbix.com/browse/ZBXNEXT-551)
15:33 <Richlv> heh, yeah, it's a combo of factors around actions that make them a bit too fragile
15:34 <cavaliercoder> volter: thanks, I appreciate it. I've only just come back online so apologies for missing any previous context
15:37 <volter> You missed nothing
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15:38 <volter> Richlv: One of kodai's question was, whether one could drop the version-specific dependency between sub-packages.
15:39 <volter> This is another example of a seemingly harmless change that makes sense to some extent. There _is_ nothing forcing me to run the same version of the agent and the proxy.
15:39 <volter> However, you could potentially run into a situation, where you would change something in a base package and a sub-package and this change should be atomic.
15:40 <volter> If you then can not force the update of both, this could lead to nasty problems.
15:41 <Richlv> volter, could some "virtual" provides be used for that ?
15:41 <volter> Well, let's continue forward-porting patches! :)
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15:41 <Richlv> like "provides: zabbix-split-users" or so
15:41 <volter> Richlv: Yes, maybe.
15:41 <Richlv> btw, i was thinking more about the patch repo on github
15:41 <Richlv> it seems to make so much sense to have them in a sort of a central place like that
15:41 <volter> Yes?
15:41 <Richlv> would increase the visibility a lot
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15:42 <volter> Yes, I know about that. The basic questions remain:
15:42 <Richlv> not sure i'd have time to put anything in there myself right now, but i might need some patch in the next few months, likely
15:42 <Richlv> i would so drop it there and see whether anybody is interested :)
15:42 <volter> How do you deal with conflicting or interdependent patches and how do you maintain multiple version economically
15:43 <volter> My approach to the latter would be to only maintain the latest version of any branch.
15:43 <volter> And I have a proper Git workflow for that, because that's what I've been doing for years.
15:43 <Richlv> 1. conflicts/deps - have a simple file describing that, possibly have a patching script taking that in account (yes, i'm aware it sounds like reimplementing packages ;) )
15:43 <Richlv> 2. versions - latest version is good, but what if the patch author uses an older version ?
15:43 <volter> Or maybe I'm getting you wrong:
15:44 <volter> Would the repo contain patches or a patched frontend?
15:44 <Richlv> 2. we could just let it flow and see what works
15:44 <Richlv> no, repo would contain patches only
15:44 <Richlv> as independent as possible
15:44 <volter> "but what if the patch author uses an older version ?
15:44 <Richlv> so if some patch breaks something for you, you can easily skip it
15:44 <volter> " -- Then you are forced to port it forward or to drop it
15:44 <Richlv> that was in response to "only maintain the latest version of any branch."
15:44 <volter> Ah, OK, that should simplify it a lot.
15:45 <Richlv> i think we just drop patches there
15:45 <Richlv> whoever creates and maintains them, decides on the version
15:45 <volter> A script applying and rolling back all the patches on update should be good enough to figure out whether one is broken.
15:45 <Richlv> if somebody needs a more recent version, they are welcome to join and help - but no warranty or guaranteed porting, of course :)
15:45 <Richlv> yep, and that could be hacked together rather easily
15:46 <volter> I'll do a little more thinking in the afternoon.
15:46 <Richlv> i like zabbix-extras a lot, but their all-or-nothing approach scares the shit out of me
15:46 <Richlv> a user would start depending a lot on one patch
15:46 <Richlv> then something else in the package breaks things for them and they're fucked
15:47 <Richlv> i would prefer to start with less shinies and less risk
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15:56 <volter> Mhm, sounds like a sane approach.
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19:18 <volter> Richlv: OK, the expression evaluation part is going to be a lot easier than I had anticipated. I expect to have a working action sim in the next couple of weeks.
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23:01 <zabbixbot> [ZBX-10611] zabbix_agentd: foreground and changing user -> "cannot run as root" created by Etienne CHAMPETIER/etienne.champetier (https://support.zabbix.com/browse/ZBX-10611)
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23:55 <zalex> finally upgraded pootle is running  ...
--- Log closed Mon Apr 04 00:00:57 2016