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Oct 2nd, 2015
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  1. [20:48:05] asd devasd: i think we should decide what's UU
  2. [20:48:18] George S. [Disaster Area]: I think you should lol
  3. [20:48:21] asd devasd: you're right
  4. [20:48:24] asd devasd: LOL
  5. [20:48:25] asd devasd: hahahaha
  6. [20:48:26] George S. [Disaster Area]: I'm godawful at exploring new metas xD
  7. [20:48:50] asd devasd: well i'm going to take a coffee
  8. [20:48:55] asd devasd: and give a serious look at the thin
  9. [20:49:12] asd devasd: there are few mons that could be still fair in the lower tier
  10. [20:49:23] asd devasd: and are not very commonly used in current UU
  11. [20:49:31] asd devasd: clefable is one of those
  12. [20:50:08] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol it doesn't matter about if they're fair in the lower tier or not, if they're not they get banned from the lower tier. Either way I think UU still has
  13. [20:50:12] George S. [Disaster Area]: tons of work to do still
  14. [20:50:25] asd devasd: not that much work
  15. [20:51:00] asd devasd: ortheore, ggfan, troller, me and other italian guys have played a lot
  16. [20:51:14] asd devasd: golden gyarados too
  17. [20:51:19] George S. [Disaster Area]: nice! :)
  18. [20:52:39] asd devasd: ok, i'm going to take a look now
  19. [20:52:42] asd devasd: mmm
  20. [20:53:08] asd devasd: first thing is i'd save the old UU metagame with amnesia users as "amnesia league", definitely
  21. [20:53:20] George S. [Disaster Area]: is it cool if I say or whatever that ortheore is in charge of m
  22. [20:53:24] George S. [Disaster Area]: 2U
  23. [20:53:30] asd devasd: for both having some continuity with the past and having something similar to birds league
  24. [20:53:57] George S. [Disaster Area]: just cos orth understands the tiering system through and through whilst everyone else still gets tripped up by it time to time
  25. [20:54:26] asd devasd: i don't think we should stick to the usual tiering system
  26. [20:55:08] asd devasd: there are clear lines between groups, creating unbalanced/centralized leagues and balanced metagames
  27. [20:55:15] George S. [Disaster Area]: you're a genius at playing the game but I don't think you're so good at organising it
  28. [20:55:16] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  29. [20:55:27] asd devasd: we should focus on what's borderline
  30. [20:55:39] asd devasd: well, i don't know what to say
  31. [20:55:49] asd devasd: you should judge this work once it's over
  32. [20:56:44] Lutra: yeah, well you need to make people like me understand everything, otherwise it won't be played by the wider playerbase
  33. [20:57:31] George S. [Disaster Area]: trouble is it's such an incredibly intuitive and obvious system to me I find it really difficult to explain it
  34. [20:57:47] George S. [Disaster Area]: it's like having to prove 1+1=2 from first logical principles
  35. [20:57:58] George S. [Disaster Area]: (hint: that takes like 200 pages of working)
  36. [20:58:07] George S. [Disaster Area]: (and I have no clue how to do it)
  37. [20:58:08] asd devasd: lol
  38. [20:58:15] asd devasd: leave alone that for a moment
  39. [20:58:29] asd devasd: we're going to show playable tiers at some point
  40. [20:58:30] George S. [Disaster Area]: thing is I think anyone who's not
  41. [20:58:35] George S. [Disaster Area]: familiar with the old tiering system
  42. [20:58:37] asd devasd: if you show the process, it will be messed up
  43. [20:58:38] George S. [Disaster Area]: won't have an issue understanding it
  44. [20:58:54] George S. [Disaster Area]: it's just players who are old enough to be familiar with it are totally confused by it
  45. [20:59:05] asd devasd: let's just start from this point: we have this UU now
  46. [20:59:08] asd devasd: do you like it?
  47. [20:59:12] asd devasd: i think it's a good tier
  48. [20:59:25] George S. [Disaster Area]: alright that seems a good way to think of it marco
  49. [20:59:28] Lutra: I hate all tiers apart from ubers, sorry
  50. [20:59:37] asd devasd: lol
  51. [20:59:44] Lutra: no, I like some OU I guess
  52. [20:59:59] asd devasd: you didn't play enough lately
  53. [21:00:02] Lutra: but there is not good counterplay for lead situations imo
  54. [21:00:19] George S. [Disaster Area]: I disagree I feel there's lots of counterplay for lead situations
  55. [21:00:21] asd devasd: well leads are a bad part of UU, but it's the same for OU
  56. [21:00:45] Lutra: well, you can get frozen easily
  57. [21:00:48] Lutra: I don't think that's good
  58. [21:00:50] asd devasd: same for ou
  59. [21:00:53] asd devasd: or even worse
  60. [21:01:00] Lutra: yes, that's what I am saying
  61. [21:01:02] George S. [Disaster Area]: that's about the only issue I have with it, lutra
  62. [21:01:03] Lutra: for OU
  63. [21:01:24] George S. [Disaster Area]: hmm how about
  64. [21:01:26] asd devasd: moving ahead, i'd have the amnesia league the same as old days UU
  65. [21:01:32] asd devasd: + rhydon and raichu
  66. [21:01:51] asd devasd: rhydon hits hard amnesia users, fortunately
  67. [21:02:26] George S. [Disaster Area]: lutra tries to get uber (1P) season going and get activity in that tier and analysis and stuff
  68. I try to get more 1U activity and analysis done
  69. ortheore tries to get 2U season going and get activity in that tier and analysis and stuff
  70. [21:02:33] asd devasd: or it could be the same as it was before (i always felt amnesia users to be cheap)
  71. [21:03:15] asd devasd: about tier beow Electabuzz Hypno Kangaskhan Raichu banned
  72. [21:03:28] asd devasd: A ranked banned too
  73. [21:03:46] asd devasd: then it's more tricky
  74. [21:05:18] asd devasd: poliwrath, golduck, poliwhirl, gyarados, charizard and razor leafers would eventually find some/a lot of play
  75. [21:05:20] asd devasd: in UU
  76. [21:07:36] asd devasd: raticate/mr mime/clefable/haunter and maybe dugtrio could be discussed
  77. [21:08:32] asd devasd: i think dugtrio and haunter belong to UU, clefable is 50-50 and raticate and mr mime could go down
  78. [21:09:05] asd devasd: with mr mime being next tier's exeggutor/hypno
  79. [21:09:19] George S. [Disaster Area]: has no sleep tho
  80. [21:09:33] asd devasd: well, next tier is no OU neither UU
  81. [21:09:34] George S. [Disaster Area]: honestly I think I probably would only start playing lower tiers around like 4u tbh
  82. [21:09:47] George S. [Disaster Area]: but this sounds interesting and it's good you have
  83. [21:09:52] George S. [Disaster Area]: an idea about how it's fitting together
  84. [21:09:53] George S. [Disaster Area]: :)
  85. [21:10:16] asd devasd: well, in all honesty
  86. [21:10:32] asd devasd: all i need is some official announcement
  87. [21:10:49] asd devasd: so ggfan and other interested people would strart playtesting
  88. [21:11:10] George S. [Disaster Area]: if you want me ortheore lutra etc can help you with that.
  89. [21:11:25] George S. [Disaster Area]: maybe I could run a couple of RBY 2U tours before season 7 is over
  90. [21:11:26] asd devasd: it would be good, definitely
  91. [21:11:43] asd devasd: yeah, we're pretty much done with 2U
  92. [21:11:56] asd devasd: i think rankings should fixed a bit
  93. [21:12:04] asd devasd: gyarados, poliwhirl, wrath, golduck
  94. [21:12:10] asd devasd: (unranked atm)
  95. [21:12:23] asd devasd: only wrath is
  96. [21:12:28] asd devasd: then we're good to go with lower tier
  97. [21:12:42] George S. [Disaster Area]: if you want I can get Lutra to lock the rankings I made and you make your own (copypaste my post and then edit it as you like)
  98. [21:12:45] George S. [Disaster Area]: might be better
  99. [21:13:15] asd devasd: about old UU/amnesia league, i feel a terrible thing is that tangela can't keep up with amnesia users
  100. [21:13:53] asd devasd: i posted something here and there
  101. [21:14:06] asd devasd: last post includes last major changes i would do
  102. [21:14:25] George S. [Disaster Area]: or maybe I'll get
  103. [21:14:27] George S. [Disaster Area]: ortheore to do it
  104. [21:14:35] George S. [Disaster Area]: since he plays it and stuff
  105. [21:15:25] asd devasd: main things are: vaporeon could be dropped, but it's definitely better than B ranked mons
  106. [21:15:43] asd devasd: charizard is scary, main thing is the great matchup vs kangaskhan
  107. [21:15:52] asd devasd: best SDancer, hence B
  108. [21:16:20] asd devasd: gyarados is at least B, with that 4xW against electrics holding it back
  109. [21:16:35] asd devasd: but dodrio has a couple (well, one maybe) hard counters
  110. [21:16:39] asd devasd: and it's A
  111. [21:18:55] asd devasd: and raichu>buzz
  112.  
  113. ----
  114.  
  115. [21:23:27] asd devasd: mmm charizard, venusaur, victreebel, poliwrath, golduck, poliwhirl, haunter, dugtrio, gyarados, + S and A ranked as banned at first glance
  116. [21:23:45] asd devasd: this should be the proposal for the next tier
  117. [21:24:24] asd devasd: we need to figure what's good, which electric can be used next (magneton?) and if clefable/mr mime/kingler are op
  118. [21:25:10] asd devasd: blastoise looks good too
  119. [21:25:20] asd devasd: nidos
  120. [21:39:15] George S. [Disaster Area]: why poliwhirl banned?
  121. [21:39:19] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  122. [21:40:02] asd devasd: amnesia
  123. [21:40:14] George S. [Disaster Area]: do you use it in 2U?
  124. [21:41:53] asd devasd: oh
  125. [21:42:00] asd devasd: 2U is current UU
  126. [21:42:04] asd devasd: well... at times
  127. [21:42:14] George S. [Disaster Area]: is it really good enough? lol
  128. [21:42:15] asd devasd: it has that typing and... speed i guess
  129. [21:42:16] asd devasd: over wrath
  130. [21:42:26] asd devasd: and wrath is REALLY good and underrated
  131. [21:42:27] George S. [Disaster Area]: speed is the main reason to use, and like hypnosis
  132. [21:42:37] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah I thought wrath would be a good mon but
  133. [21:42:40] asd devasd: neutral damage from psychic is big, too
  134. [21:42:41] George S. [Disaster Area]: I wouldn't think whirl would be
  135. [21:42:56] asd devasd: whatever, amnesia is too much for 3U
  136. [21:42:58] asd devasd: or whatever it is
  137. [21:43:02] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  138. [21:43:06] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah it's 3U, but if whirl's
  139. [21:43:13] George S. [Disaster Area]: not good enough in 2U
  140. [21:43:20] George S. [Disaster Area]: then it can be 3U and if it's too good banned to 3P
  141. [21:43:26] asd devasd: if we're talking about amnesia league (formerly UU or whatever with some change) it's different
  142. [21:43:43] asd devasd: its room should be amnesia league
  143. [21:44:06] asd devasd: i think it's both viable enough in UU and too much of a bastard in 3U
  144. [21:44:32] asd devasd: this tier should find dominating mons in...
  145. [21:44:34] asd devasd: nidos!
  146. with mr mime and clefable as major checks for them/pivots
  147. [21:45:05] George S. [Disaster Area]: and poliwag
  148. [21:45:09] asd devasd: blastoise and some water too
  149. [21:45:11] asd devasd: oh pls
  150. [21:45:13] asd devasd: poliwag lol
  151. [21:45:17] George S. [Disaster Area]: if whirl would be a bastard
  152. [21:45:21] George S. [Disaster Area]: surely wag would work
  153. [21:45:22] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  154. [21:45:26] asd devasd: poliwag is a bit too weak
  155. [21:45:44] George S. [Disaster Area]: 10 less base special 25 less base hp
  156. [21:45:48] George S. [Disaster Area]: not much difference
  157. [21:45:50] asd devasd: that kind of mon (amnesia user) should be out of this metagame
  158. [21:46:01] asd devasd: we'll see what it does
  159. [21:46:12] George S. [Disaster Area]: remember how much staryu surprised us lol
  160. [21:46:13] asd devasd: with no razor leafers, nor good electrics
  161. nidos learn tbolt
  162. [21:49:13] asd devasd: mr mime has tbolt too, sam for clefable
  163. [21:49:27] asd devasd: outspeeding poliwag is kew
  164. [21:49:44] asd devasd: and yeah, it's fast
  165. [21:49:56] George S. [Disaster Area]: electrode (^:
  166. [21:50:04] George S. [Disaster Area]: actually isn't
  167. [21:50:05] asd devasd: nah, it can't deal with nidos
  168. [21:50:06] George S. [Disaster Area]: buzz legal
  169. [21:50:07] George S. [Disaster Area]: ?
  170. [21:50:16] asd devasd: well... in old UU/amnesia league it is
  171. [21:50:21] asd devasd: this is supposed to be different
  172. [21:50:28] asd devasd: the lower balanced metagame
  173. [21:51:35] asd devasd: well, poliwag's bulk makes it frail
  174. [21:51:45] asd devasd: i don't think it should centralize the metagame
  175. [21:52:03] asd devasd: to the point you're so scared that you need things to beat it
  176. [21:56:04] asd devasd: and actually yeah, there are no decent electrics if we ban electabuzz
  177. [21:56:33] asd devasd: magneton has great special but no moves
  178. [22:06:32] asd devasd: btw
  179. [22:06:35] asd devasd: are you busy?
  180. [22:08:55] George S. [Disaster Area]: about to eat dinner
  181. [22:09:00] George S. [Disaster Area]: also there's nfe electrics to consider
  182. [22:09:03] George S. [Disaster Area]: which I think is just
  183. [22:09:04] George S. [Disaster Area]: pikachu
  184. [22:09:09] asd devasd: lol
  185. [22:09:15] asd devasd: it's something
  186. [22:09:22] asd devasd: not good enough i guess
  187. [22:09:31] asd devasd: btw it looks good yet
  188. [22:09:35] asd devasd: venomoth and butterfree
  189. [22:09:39] asd devasd: it's your chance to use them lol
  190. [22:09:43] George S. [Disaster Area]: :D
  191. [22:09:51] asd devasd: especially the fast one
  192. [22:09:57] asd devasd: speed tying mr mime as leads
  193. [22:09:58] George S. [Disaster Area]: (moth)
  194. [22:10:08] George S. [Disaster Area]: still there's
  195. [22:10:08] asd devasd: psychic vs nidos
  196. [22:10:11] George S. [Disaster Area]: abra (kadabra?)
  197. [22:10:13] George S. [Disaster Area]: that can antilead it
  198. [22:10:15] asd devasd: abra
  199. [22:10:17] asd devasd: kadabra is banned ofc
  200. [22:10:26] asd devasd: looks good
  201. [22:10:39] asd devasd: with no electrics, no grass or fire types
  202. [22:10:44] George S. [Disaster Area]: abra vs venomoth vs butterfree or something = lead meta lol
  203. [22:10:45] asd devasd: blastoise/kingler as water
  204. [22:10:55] asd devasd: venomoth and mr mime mainly imo
  205. [22:11:08] asd devasd: or something faster
  206. [22:11:11] asd devasd: definitely
  207. [22:11:11] George S. [Disaster Area]: mm mime only ties with moth, BUT it has tbolt for free
  208. [22:11:17] asd devasd: it has twave
  209. [22:11:22] asd devasd: it's a better mon etc
  210. [22:11:27] George S. [Disaster Area]: for free as in
  211. [22:11:29] George S. [Disaster Area]: butterfree
  212. [22:11:38] asd devasd: lol
  213. [22:12:21] George S. [Disaster Area]: I like the sound of 3u tbh
  214. [22:12:25] George S. [Disaster Area]: i will playtest for 3u
  215. [22:12:30] George S. [Disaster Area]: (at least when I have the time)
  216. [22:12:35] George S. [Disaster Area]: (not on smogon now tho so that helps)
  217. [22:12:52] George S. [Disaster Area]: (but TONS of GP checks on PP to implement and there's some stuff I wanna write)
  218. [22:13:06] asd devasd: yeah i know
  219. [22:13:11] George S. [Disaster Area]: + I have uni
  220. [22:13:13] asd devasd: mons descriptions
  221. [22:13:24] asd devasd: my best days are coming to an end
  222. [22:13:27] asd devasd: 5th of october
  223. [22:13:27] George S. [Disaster Area]: not just the mons descriptions stuff that is in no hurry
  224. [22:13:46] George S. [Disaster Area]: wanna write an article about
  225. [22:13:52] George S. [Disaster Area]: when you can drop any of
  226. [22:13:53] George S. [Disaster Area]: the big 4
  227. [22:13:54] George S. [Disaster Area]: in ou
  228. [22:14:02] asd devasd: when your opponent is a noob
  229. [22:14:22] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol did u see jellicent in roapl I helped him with his teams
  230. [22:14:27] George S. [Disaster Area]: only one of the big 4 he used twice
  231. [22:14:28] George S. [Disaster Area]: was snorlax
  232. [22:14:40] asd devasd: lol
  233. [22:14:49] George S. [Disaster Area]: tbf he suggested using
  234. [22:14:51] George S. [Disaster Area]: vic vs ortheore
  235. [22:14:52] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  236. [22:14:57] asd devasd: possible
  237. [22:15:03] asd devasd: but he changes a lot
  238. [22:15:09] asd devasd: and uses articuno and zapdos too
  239. [22:15:10] asd devasd: gengar
  240. [22:15:11] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah
  241. [22:15:11] asd devasd: lol
  242. [22:15:19] George S. [Disaster Area]: iirc we didn't win that one
  243. [22:15:24] George S. [Disaster Area]: but if u watch u'll see
  244. [22:15:26] George S. [Disaster Area]: lots of hax +
  245. [22:15:29] George S. [Disaster Area]: jellicent misplaying his
  246. [22:15:31] George S. [Disaster Area]: starmie pretty badly
  247. [22:17:28] asd devasd: still, s4 are tough to drop now
  248. [22:17:29] asd devasd: more than ever
  249. [22:17:34] George S. [Disaster Area]: i disagree
  250. [22:17:38] George S. [Disaster Area]: easier to drop chansey than before
  251. [22:17:42] George S. [Disaster Area]: much easier
  252. [22:17:48] asd devasd: chansey... possible
  253. [22:18:06] asd devasd: still, you're seeing a small number of starmies and laprases these days
  254. [22:18:07] George S. [Disaster Area]: egg harder sure I guess
  255. [22:18:11] asd devasd: that would come to an end
  256. [22:18:18] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah but teams w/o chansey
  257. [22:18:19] George S. [Disaster Area]: run like
  258. [22:18:24] George S. [Disaster Area]: zam jolt starmie etc anyway
  259. [22:18:33] George S. [Disaster Area]: so they have means to handle mies and lappys
  260. [22:18:35] asd devasd: it would get exposed
  261. [22:18:50] asd devasd: it's different when you don't have a chansey to switch into egg
  262. [22:19:06] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah but vs that sort of team
  263. [22:19:09] George S. [Disaster Area]: egg can hardly
  264. [22:19:11] George S. [Disaster Area]: switch in
  265. [22:19:17] asd devasd: you get your check paralyzed, and all of a sudden, you're in a bad position
  266. [22:19:41] George S. [Disaster Area]: i think egg is overrated tbh
  267. [22:19:52] asd devasd: only thing it's overrated about
  268. [22:19:59] asd devasd: is its defense
  269. [22:20:13] George S. [Disaster Area]: mm yeah i definitely agree w/ u there
  270. [22:20:16] asd devasd: it can't take a ch body slam
  271. [22:20:19] George S. [Disaster Area]: ^
  272. [22:20:23] George S. [Disaster Area]: unlike lappy or lax
  273. [22:20:34] George S. [Disaster Area]: also dies to crit HB
  274. [22:20:37] asd devasd: but it's still great
  275. [22:20:53] asd devasd: also, looking at leads for 3U, arcanine is good
  276. [22:21:02] George S. [Disaster Area]: how fast's arcanine?
  277. [22:21:06] asd devasd: 95
  278. [22:21:10] George S. [Disaster Area]: ooh
  279. [22:21:12] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah
  280. [22:21:14] George S. [Disaster Area]: that's a good pick then
  281. [22:21:17] asd devasd: >moth, mr mime
  282. [22:21:24] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah
  283. [22:21:24] asd devasd: raticate as a lead too, lol
  284. [22:21:34] George S. [Disaster Area]: raticate as lead is like
  285. [22:21:37] George S. [Disaster Area]: lead tauros in OU tho yn
  286. [22:21:45] asd devasd: nah
  287. [22:21:51] asd devasd: there's no chansey
  288. [22:22:03] asd devasd: and mixed sweepers can bring games home
  289. [22:22:42] George S. [Disaster Area]: also @ amnesias earlier
  290. [22:22:46] George S. [Disaster Area]: still weepinbell and ivysaur
  291. [22:22:49] George S. [Disaster Area]: and vileplume
  292. [22:23:35] asd devasd: vileplume sucks
  293. [22:23:45] asd devasd: it has petal dance
  294. [22:23:50] George S. [Disaster Area]: doesn't it have
  295. [22:23:54] George S. [Disaster Area]: rleaf too?
  296. [22:23:57] asd devasd: nosd
  297. [22:24:04] George S. [Disaster Area]: x_x thought it did >.>
  298. [22:24:07] asd devasd: yeah
  299. [22:24:11] asd devasd: i thought magneton had stoss
  300. [22:24:20] asd devasd: or some other special move
  301. [22:24:30] asd devasd: 338 special>>>> only electrics moves
  302. [22:24:30] George S. [Disaster Area]: riplume
  303. [22:25:12] George S. [Disaster Area]: tbh ivysaur and weepinbell look ok
  304. [22:25:33] asd devasd: well, they do sleep things
  305. [22:25:43] asd devasd: but... nidos are top mons of the tier
  306. [22:26:30] asd devasd: what can switch into EQ, tbolt and blizzard
  307. [22:26:48] asd devasd: that's your 6th mon of choice in a standard team
  308. [22:26:49] George S. [Disaster Area]: tbh
  309. [22:26:55] George S. [Disaster Area]: i find nidos threatening in
  310. [22:26:55] George S. [Disaster Area]: OU
  311. [22:26:57] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  312. [22:27:05] asd devasd: lol
  313. [22:27:06] asd devasd: no
  314. [22:27:11] George S. [Disaster Area]: nothing theoretically switches into
  315. [22:27:15] George S. [Disaster Area]: eq thunder and blizzard
  316. [22:27:15] George S. [Disaster Area]: in OU
  317. [22:27:17] George S. [Disaster Area]: safely
  318. [22:27:17] George S. [Disaster Area]: rly
  319. [22:27:23] asd devasd: lax...
  320. [22:27:29] George S. [Disaster Area]: mm ok lax i guess
  321. [22:27:31] asd devasd: lapras
  322. [22:27:33] George S. [Disaster Area]: but if u reveal it
  323. [22:27:35] George S. [Disaster Area]: later on in the game
  324. [22:27:42] George S. [Disaster Area]: could be devillish
  325. [22:27:45] asd devasd: they're still weak and hit hard
  326. [22:27:49] asd devasd: by a lot of things
  327. [22:27:56] asd devasd: zapdos drill peck is a 3hko as far as i remember
  328. [22:27:57] George S. [Disaster Area]: mm
  329. [22:28:02] George S. [Disaster Area]: i think that's their main downfall
  330. [22:31:14] asd devasd: machamp counters nidoking decently
  331. [22:31:30] asd devasd: Nidoking Earthquake vs. Machamp: 118-139 (30.8 - 36.2%) -- 57.2% chance to 3HKO
  332. [22:31:30] George S. [Disaster Area]: nice
  333. [22:31:34] asd devasd: and champ 2hkos
  334. [22:31:43] asd devasd: well, i think this tier would be a bit narrow
  335. [22:31:51] George S. [Disaster Area]: we'll see
  336. [22:31:56] asd devasd: but... we need to explore it more
  337. [22:31:57] George S. [Disaster Area]: if it is too narrow we may ban stuff
  338. [22:31:58] George S. [Disaster Area]: yeah
  339. [22:32:06] asd devasd: lol
  340. [22:32:15] asd devasd: i think it could work better the other way
  341. [22:32:19] asd devasd: unban buzz
  342. [22:32:32] asd devasd: as it's somehow worse than raichu in UU
  343. [22:33:00] asd devasd: unban vaporeon or cruel
  344. [22:33:13] George S. [Disaster Area]: cruel would be
  345. [22:33:14] George S. [Disaster Area]: insane
  346. [22:33:21] asd devasd: as amnesia users and gyarados could be ultimately better in UU
  347. [22:33:26] George S. [Disaster Area]: SD+Wrap+Base 100 Speed+Water STAB
  348. [22:33:46] asd devasd: mm yeah this time it would be
  349. [22:33:47] asd devasd: for real
  350. [22:33:55] asd devasd: so well, erase that part
  351. [22:34:01] asd devasd: unban vaporeon
  352. [22:34:23] asd devasd: unban vaporeon, dugtrio, venusaur and electabuzz
  353. [22:34:49] asd devasd: (gyarados/wrath, rhydon, bel, raichu) as their UU counterparts
  354. [22:35:51] asd devasd: but it would look very similar to UU
  355. [22:40:02] asd devasd: Nidoking Thunderbolt vs. Seadra: 119-140 (38 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  356. [22:40:05] asd devasd: seadra speed ties and 2hkos
  357. [22:40:09] George S. [Disaster Area]: nice
  358. [22:40:29] asd devasd: main thing this tier misses, are sleepers
  359. [22:40:39] asd devasd: clefable with sing lol
  360. [22:41:05] George S. [Disaster Area]: and venomoth/butterfree which don't rly switch into too much lol
  361. [22:45:05] asd devasd: venomoth outspeeds
  362. [22:45:13] asd devasd: and is not 2hko'd by EQ
  363. [22:45:20] George S. [Disaster Area]: nice
  364. [22:45:26] George S. [Disaster Area]: how much does it do with psychic?
  365. [22:46:16] asd devasd: 2hko i guess
  366. [22:46:30] asd devasd: can you play now?
  367. [22:46:46] George S. [Disaster Area]: play which meta? for why?
  368. [22:46:51] asd devasd: 3U
  369. [22:47:01] George S. [Disaster Area]: i'll play it once it's announced
  370. [22:47:01] asd devasd: to make ourselves an idea
  371. [22:47:03] George S. [Disaster Area]: lol
  372. [22:47:12] asd devasd: well... think it this way
  373. [22:47:26] asd devasd: if we want NOT to ban electabuzz and/or something else
  374. [22:47:33] asd devasd: we'd better try it before the announcement
  375. [22:47:39] George S. [Disaster Area]: that's not how we think about this though.
  376. [22:47:59] George S. [Disaster Area]: we don't not ban something from the tier cos it would be a good addition to the tier below
  377. [22:48:11] asd devasd: if we think it's damn narrow, we can think about something different
  378. [22:48:21] asd devasd: if it's announced already... that's a bit worse
  379. we definitely don't
  380. it's not banned from the upper tier
  381. [22:49:15] asd devasd: it we want to use buzz in 3U, it can stay up there in S rank
  382. [22:49:23] George S. [Disaster Area]: .
  383. [22:49:23] asd devasd: it would be difficult to explain
  384. so i'd be happier with an healthy 3U tier without buzz
  385. banning nidos could be another option
  386. [22:49:56] asd devasd: banning nidos could be another option
  387. [22:50:17] asd devasd: somehow, 2U was very greedy
  388. it has at least 3 good mons for each type
  389. and now 3U has no electrics, and is narrow
  390. btw i have a team ready whenever you are asd
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