chatlog 26-9-16

[16:20:10] (One) Tuan wisps: I have met evil. Evil sounds so normal, right up until one realizes they actually believe torture is treating people as human.
[16:21:01] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: evil is thinking you know what's evil and what isn't
[16:21:23] (One) Tuan wisps: Is it? I always thought evil starts with treating people as things.
[16:29:53] (One) Tuan wisps: I'm pretty sure that seeing nothing wrong with torturing people is evil, but I suppose I could be wrong.
[16:30:39] (One) Pit wisps: Clearly, if you torture people you're treating them as humans.
[16:30:40] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: if you could torture those people who think it's ok to torture people, would you do it?
[16:30:44] (One) Pit wisps: You wouldn't torture a chair.
[16:30:48] (One) Pit wisps: It would be pointless.
[16:31:12] (One) Pit wisps: You're just -really crappy- with humans.
[16:31:29] (One) Pit wisps: Also, no, obviously not, as that would be giving implicit permission to torture myself wouldn't it? ;)
[16:33:28] (One) Tuan wisps: I would not torture people because it doesn't work. You can indeed torture a chair. If the chair protests, well, there's no point in thinking what a chair thinks, right?
[16:34:13] (One) Tuan wisps: or really, why would you care what the chair's opinion on torture is? It's there to serve you.
[16:35:11] (One) Borealis wisps: the big flaw with torture as a means of gaining information is that if you don't realise when your victim is telling you the truth, they soon realise that there's no penalty to lying to you, and start making uop what they think you want to hear. You then need to spend much more effort verifying what they told you than you did torturing them.
[16:35:46] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: borealis: http://imago.hitherby.com/2005/12/an-oracle-for-np/
[16:39:42] (One) Tuan wisps: ...I read the story. I have no idea what the point trying to be made was.
[16:40:18] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: it's like a zen koan, you have to meditate on it
[16:40:32] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: or if you're like me, marvel at it for a minute then move on
[16:40:37] (One) Tuan wisps: ...I dislike Zen koans. They're always so pointless.
[16:42:21] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: http://mavant.com/2014/03/27/the-one-about-monads/ here's something about koans
[16:43:40] (One) Tuan wisps: Anyway, if you use a human as a chair, and then torture it, you can indeed torture a chair.
[16:44:23] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: you are not torturing it because it is a chair, though
[16:44:45] (One) Tuan wisps: ..and that right there is why evil starts with treating people as things.
[16:45:03] (One) Uzi wisps: Nor would you boast, "Hey look at that chair I tortured."
[16:46:00] (One) Tuan wisps: ...Do people actually even boast about "Hey, look at that guy I tortured?"
[16:46:36] (One) Uzi wisps: This Australian nut job in the Philipeans does
[16:47:33] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: by "you are not torturing it because it is a chair", I meant: you have decided to torture it because it's a human, and not because it's a chair
[16:48:14] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: I think you've misinterpreted me
[16:50:40] (One) Tuan wisps: But you can torture a chair. It doesn't matter if the chair objects. It's a chair.
[16:51:09] (One) Lightblade wisps: why all the talk about chair torturing
[16:51:53] (One) Hoax wisps: Your mind is tortured by torturing talk about chair.
[16:51:56] (One) Tuan wisps: Because I met someone who believed that torturing people was not treating them as non-people, and thought that was evil. Seems so normal in other respects.
[16:52:14] (One) Tuan wisps: and *I thought that was evil*
[16:53:07] (One) Tetrikitty wisps: lightblade: we're talking about whether torturing someone counts as objectifying them