Keening vs Emlis

Keening10/07/2019
I didnt mean on crows I meant with crows talent, but it doesnt matter. i'm talking to deaf ears and have been for an hour

Emlis10/07/2019
but what relevancy does that have

Keening10/07/2019
not much
thus don't bother

Emlis10/07/2019
I was telling you, that there is almost a guaranteed chance of having toth lose value due to misplay
whereas it's uncommon to lose value on crows due to misplay
making toth actually harder to reach full value with

Keening10/07/2019
and i said it's basically up all the time

Emlis10/07/2019
basically isn't good enough
80% isn't 100%

Lobo10/07/2019
One of the funniest part is talking on using toth while having a Feeding Frenzy trait :open_mouth:

Scoteh10/07/2019
:POGGERS:

Teheebae10/07/2019
FF :ok_hand:

Emlis10/07/2019
which means there is room to lose value

Teheebae10/07/2019
But 80 is closer to 100 than 0, so it must be good

Ghosteld10/07/2019
with crows :TriDance:


Scoteh10/07/2019
He did it, the mad man

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
lmfao ghost.

Keening10/07/2019
D&D uptime? 74.83% uptime

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
:tridance: is my new fave thing

Emlis10/07/2019
uptime is not relevant, 3 stack uptime is

Keening10/07/2019
you always get 3 stack uptime if you have 3 traits of dnd

Emlis10/07/2019
uh

Martyi10/07/2019
lol what?

Scoteh10/07/2019
Where is this "&" and "n" coming from

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
?????????????? my head hurts so much. the fuck am i even reading

Lobo10/07/2019
Ahah

Keening10/07/2019
dance of death

Martyi10/07/2019
Holy shit Lololol

Emlis10/07/2019
how does dance of death traits, help stack uptime
dance of death traits HURT stack uptime, and it's worth it

Scoteh10/07/2019
Oh oh oh

Maikl10/07/2019
dungeons n dragons

Lobo10/07/2019
Want to know too

Scoteh10/07/2019
I get this one

Keening10/07/2019
we're talking about two different things here.

Emlis10/07/2019
clearly

Scoteh10/07/2019
What hes saying is that he has higher dod uptime because of toth

Keening10/07/2019
scoteh thank you

Lobo10/07/2019
Yeah, but higher DoD uptime =/= more dps

Scoteh10/07/2019
I am starting to speak moron

Ghosteld10/07/2019
toplog has perma 3 stack uptime with crows :peeposhrug:


Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
go scoteh go xD

Emlis10/07/2019
higher dod uptime with toth
higher dps with crows
@Keening which do you want
more dps or more dod uptime
SEEMS PRETTY OBVIOUS TO ME

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
Uptime looks better on a green log? DUR. it makes sense now.
xD

Ghosteld10/07/2019
Also on 2 minute fights, no matter what you do DoD is mega RNG

Scoteh10/07/2019
We could actually math this out though guys

Teheebae10/07/2019
:slight_smile:

Itsy10/07/2019
I think we should all just man up and play the one true spec,
Survival.

Scoteh10/07/2019
So take the overall damage done by crows on the fight

Maikl10/07/2019
you would have to compare 10+ pulls from both talent choices and average them to see the real difference

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
yeah on your own with that one scoteh xD

Scoteh10/07/2019
Get "his" dod uptime vs crows players uptime

Lobo10/07/2019
Don't talk about survival, trap dancing was fun (yeah it's very old, but meh)

Scoteh10/07/2019
And then -1k dps for every second extra he has of dod uptime

Keening10/07/2019
https://wowanalyzer.com/report/DBjQa9VyLKYbkm18/3-Heroic+Radiance+of+Azshara+-+Kill+(3:25)/Adventuring/statistics
WoWAnalyzer: Heroic Radiance of Azshara - Kill (3:25) by Adventuring
Use WoWAnalyzer to analyze your gameplay and get suggestions to become a better raider.


patty10/07/2019
I agree with Keening is it much better to play only 2 buttons instead of 3. He is truly the mastermind of this discord.

Keening10/07/2019
thanks patty

Scoteh10/07/2019
And then work out whether crows is more!
WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY

Maikl10/07/2019
HC radiance :Pepega:

Keening10/07/2019
Maikl, what the fuck just give me a break

Stonefire10/07/2019
Some of you guys are why people still call us hunatards :frowning:

Keening10/07/2019
you in EU? give me guild invite i'll show you in mythic np. my current progress doesnt matter it's not about ME in the end it's about the viability of toth&gale vs crow's&crow's

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
they do not matter Keening - Heroic is vastly different from Mythic.

Keening10/07/2019
yes I know it's different
so is any fight compared to patchwerk

Ghosteld10/07/2019
:PepeLaugh:

nice opener

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
you know sims dont account for 100% and you can adjust the api for different variables right?

Scoteh10/07/2019
:NotLikeThis:

Keening10/07/2019
the constant player bashing in here..

Maikl10/07/2019


Damkus10/07/2019
this is great keep goin

Ghosteld10/07/2019
Whats the point of taking toth when you are using barbed/bw incorrectly :ThonkDumb:

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
^

Keening10/07/2019
how do I use it incorrectly @Ghosteld

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
This isnt player bashing - this is us trying to make you understand - if you are going to try prove a point be damn sure you have the evidence so people are willing to take you seriously.

Maikl10/07/2019
he doesn't know :pepegiggle:

Silva10/07/2019
BW should be before Barbed so its going to take off its cd.

Ghosteld10/07/2019
You shot barbed shot twice while bestial wrath was usable thus losing 24 second (+ like 4 seconds of delaying it)

Keening10/07/2019
Yea you're right
i've got subpar macro
but is that what you meant by not using it correctly?

Maikl10/07/2019
yes

Keening10/07/2019
k

patty10/07/2019
Please why you have to be so mean to a prophet of a new build. He is a human after all he does mistakes :slight_smile:

Keening10/07/2019
so, my opener can improve

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
I think dude, once you have better gear/have actually studied the Guide you are suggesting Azor improves. you may actually see results.

Keening10/07/2019
what the fuck?

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
And thus your current points you will then learn are invalid and have already been proven as incorrect.

Keening10/07/2019
my points arent invalid they're VERY valid, especially for people still learning the basics... if you're bashing me for having a faulty opener imagine what mistakes and improvement people lower down the ladder has with trying to keep up optimising their characters in a build that only performs 100% if you perform 100%, it's not as forgiving as something more simple and easier to use.

Xath10/07/2019
huh so someone dropped another barrel of nitroglycerin onto a spec argument it seems sheesh

Lobo10/07/2019
/facepalm

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
for gods sake dude, we arent bashing you - If you posted those logs into #log  reviews  you wouldve been told the same thing there.
As would any new player asking for advice.

Damkus10/07/2019
think people who cant figure out that you should press bestial wrath before blasting barbed shots need a brain scan, not a new build

Prier10/07/2019
wait is this guy back again?

Keening10/07/2019
see what i'm saying

Prier10/07/2019
i coulda swore we had this argument in the mm discord like 2weeks ago

Keening10/07/2019
I wasnt in mm 2 weeks ago
I've not said this before
but I guess why people don't come around often
geez

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
We are one of the if not most uptodate class discords in terms of Guides/theorycrafting

Prier10/07/2019
your advocating for playing something worse cause its easier
why not get better at the hard thing

Keening10/07/2019
what's your uptime on Dance of death in any random fight?

Prier10/07/2019
and do more dps that wayt

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
if your build had some form of credibility - it would be there.

Emlis10/07/2019
@Keening you're looking at the wrong information, dod uptime varies significantly based on rng,
asking that, as though it means something, puts more doubt on anything you say

Keening10/07/2019
rng can be reduced with gale
rng can be reduced with toth

Lobo10/07/2019
Then only way to have no rng on dod would be to have 100% crit

Emlis10/07/2019
Irrelevant, you don't know by what %, you don't know what part is rng, if it was a good or bad attempt
you're asking for useless information

Keening10/07/2019
just give me a friggen number? not that hard is it?

Emlis10/07/2019
invalidates your argument even more

Keening10/07/2019
i had 75% uptime on two bosses we looked at

Emlis10/07/2019
okay, i get from 30% to 90% depending on the fight :slight_smile:
it's rng
this is why we use sims, which has 10,000 attempts to go off of

Keening10/07/2019
so can you simulate uptime in raidbots? if so, then we should be able to break this down in a few steppes with no more argumentation needed.

Emlis10/07/2019
No because sims say it's less dps to do what you're suggesting
which means what you're saying is irrelevant
more dps >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more dod uptime

Keening10/07/2019
You can't simulate uptime in raidbots because sim says it's less dps to what i'm suggesting?
wtf?

Emlis10/07/2019
you can see uptime in buffs
of the sim you already did
that already said it was worse dps
that we already saw
and already realised you're wrong

Ryv10/07/2019
:pepeDjChristmas: :popcorn~1:

Silva10/07/2019
Autistic fest. Thank u.

patty10/07/2019
This just means the APL of the simm is wrong for the superior build. No way the Kenning is wrong here.

Keening10/07/2019
Manners ffs
what the flying fuck with the acid, manner up.
stop jumping character..

Prier10/07/2019
i bet keening denies climate change too
so typical

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
Hey guys isnt the world flat?

Emlis10/07/2019
@Keening People are just memeing it because you're not making sense and making statements and arguments that don't make sense

Keening10/07/2019
meming it? you're ok with that?

Emlis10/07/2019
i have no power
goatface is the guy with power
i'm just a regular talker here

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
You also make sense Emlis.

Prier10/07/2019
i believe its spelt cents kazzo
cmon bruh

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
xD soz

Silva10/07/2019
It goes for 5 hours right?

patty10/07/2019
What part of my comment is a 'meme'? I don't even know what that means. I am just trying to show support of an unused build which makes hunters fun.

Ryv10/07/2019
Is crows cd 45 or 60 :pepeDjChristmas: :popcorn~1: ?

Prier10/07/2019
this beats the mm one we had the other week about using passive trinkets increases your dps
what a meme that was

Toth is real10/07/2019
Sounds similar

Prier10/07/2019
mmhm
i pve'd my way to 2k in arena today boy lol

Damkus10/07/2019
wtf with what comp

Prier10/07/2019
bm resto druid

Ryv10/07/2019
Thought it would be 3x bm :FeelsBadMan:

Prier10/07/2019
i do so much dmg everyone just falls over eventually
lol
oh lol

Damkus10/07/2019
damn
and here i thought bm hutners were poo in pvp

Prier10/07/2019
im playing that full vers build
for bm
seems legit

Scoteh10/07/2019
@Prier have you tried using toth?

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
As i said - and it wasnt intended to be a "meme" @Keening  This discord is kept well uptodate and new builds/theorycrafts take place daily if your build had some credibility to it, it would be on the guide. A good example is the AC/KC build which has recently been discovered as competitive. Proof was provided and it was tested - then added to the guide.

Ryv10/07/2019
Full vers :PepoThink: what is this witchcraft

Prier10/07/2019
nah i havnt
dude
its pretty powerful

Keening10/07/2019
Let me try and make sense, one final attempt:

1))for a beginner it's easier with less buttons in the rotation: consider exploring the toth&gale route

2))for the intermediate & advanced player, it's important to differentiate between a sim & what you're physically able to reach during a bossfight with the random factors added. If you can't reach the potential of a-murder-of-crows simmed, you might have an easier time reaching the simmed damage in a single target fight with less buttons in rotation & more consistent uptime of DoD.

The highest potential is in a-murder-of-crows i haven't challanged that even once.
However since it's hard to truly maximize your output with the random factors around, (not only in a sim environment, but your irl state while playing) more often than not I argue it's worth playing with toth & gale for the reasons mentioned higher up in this post.

I don't argue against that it sims lower, I argue against the fact that your personal output will possibly be higher since you don't have to worry about crows, as well as naturally getting higher uptime on DoD and so on.

However, some of you should really just.. well idk, try and be nice and not suck up to the "group" and actually think before you type & attack someone for thinking differently than yourself.

With this said, I'm fine with just being silent from now on.

Ryv10/07/2019
Jesus christ

Kazzo/Liam10/07/2019
omg essay.

Keening10/07/2019
guess it was too much to ask for, just read. Ill be gone now. bye
thx for a wonderful chat lol

Ryv10/07/2019
I mean I am on the bus but holy fuck

Scoteh10/07/2019
:cantwakeup:

Emlis10/07/2019
@Keening It is harder to reach the potential of toth, than the potential of crows
significantly harder to reach toth potential

proximitynz10/07/2019
if you cant handle the complexity of a 1 APM ability

Damkus10/07/2019
go off king

Ultracasual10/07/2019
@Keening Don’t take it too personally mate. A month ago there was this guy called Freerun saying BoTE is great in dungeons and everyone was making fun of him. He got banned over here, but the same people who were making fun use BoTE some weeks and even suggest doing it. You do you mate, this  build works for you, use it.