00:00
Alright,


more grammar. So I was supposed to have another video yesterday, Screen Flow, which is the apps that I use to record these screen cast videos, the nice exploded. And so I did not have a video. So try doing a video again, I'm just going to briefly talk over part of what I talked about in the video that you will never see, which is this discussion by Elliot from August 13 regarding non finite verbs, because I thought that these posts were really good. And if people are interested in learning about non finite verb stuff, you could definitely do worse than to read this.


In particular,


me and Anna have been having a discussion about a couple of sentences. This is part of a sentence, but this is the relevant part for the discussion. And then this is another sons. And basically the issue was the part of symbols and pretending as a part of civil and rising as a part of civil.

01:23
So they're both


artist symbols are a verb form, which modifies


face nouns a service like adjectives. And so the issue was, so analysts okay with calling this line rising and adjective, modifying sun she wasn't okay with treating pretending as an adjective modifying actors. And so, la wrote a bunch of stuff. And my takeaway from it was, I think that at some level, even though I've explicitly changed my ideas


about particles and verbals

02:16
to accept that they can take things like subjects and all sorts of stuff, I was still viewing this. So the LA it says, at a lower level, they averts rise, pretend that's the starting point. So I think basically, intuitively, I was not doing that I was treating them as agitated adjectives at a low level, even though if you'd asked me, I wouldn't have said that. And so then, so so here's here's the issue. If you treat adjectives as if you treat a participle as an adjective at a low level, then you can just say okay, risings amount of thanks, son, there's no problem. But then, if he you get into this sort of situation, where the participle as like an object,


then you have to decide


run into a dilemma. Because


like, if it's if it would be an adjective at a low level, can it still be like, then is this separate? Is the object to be judges separate? Or can it also can this whole thing operate as an adjective at a higher level, at the same time, that this is an adjective at a lower level? Because that would be a bit strange, because the whole thing about doing different levels of analysis is, you do it because things serve different functions on in relation to other parts of the sentence. So it'd be weird, if like, this was an adjective modifying actors, and then this was an adjective, as well, modifying actors,

04:00
that whole thing together,


because then you've got two levels doing the same thing in relation to the same word. So then my attempt at a solution was basically Well,


maybe with


maybe you can think of non fine phrases, clauses, it having like an inside and outside and on this stuff on the inside is the subject or object or whatever. And that is part of the thing, which like, so verbal serve, as you know, something like, like, it's a participle. So it's serving as an adjective. It's an infinitive. So it could be all sorts of stuff is Jaron so it's a noun. So my idea was like, for whatever that thing that the verbal is going to be serving as, at a higher level, you could say that, like subjects or objects are grouped together with within that. And so that's a different kind of thing. So this is an object so this would be grouped together. And so this whole thing could serve as an adjective. And so we wouldn't look at it as an adjective. We wouldn't look as pretending as an adjective by itself, we look at pretending to be judges as an adjective, because this is an object. And so these are close together. And that's a different sort of thing than like quickly rising. As quickly as an adverb adverbs the relationship is looser. And so that was that was my attempt to like reasoning through this.

05:39
So basically, I wanted to, like justify.


Sorry, I think the idea was like, so this is this is not really grouped with anything closely. So I view this basically as an adjective, and then I could just modifies son, straightforwardly. But this is grouped with that. So then, if this if this is mistaken, but if this were at a low level, an adjective, not a verb, if that's how you were looking at it? Well, you still have to do something with this. And so then you have to come up with some sort of justification. Well, why don't I just treat this by itself as modifying actors, saying which actors and then do something else with this. So if you want to have the whole expression, modify actors, usually come up with some sort of rationale. If you're viewing this as an adjective at a low level, if you're not viewing it as an adjective at a low level, if you're viewing it as like a verb type of word, then you could say, Okay, well, does it have a subject or object? And then you go, okay, but has this object to be judges? Where do they pretending to be they're pretending to be judges? Okay. Now is this is this verbal object group doing anything? Yes. It's


telling you


which, which actors, which actors, the actors pretending to be judges. So you see, the if you have the mistaken, premise or view that this is an adjective, then you get into a lot of trouble. Like this is an adjective from from the first level of analysis. But if you start with the right premise, then you can get to the adjective at a higher level. And you don't run into the same sort of problem. One point that I liked was, or is it? Oh, yeah. So Elliott says words in groups routinely play different roles at a higher and higher and lower levels. For example, in John's for the ball, the grouping based on the verb through does not play a verb role at a higher level of analysis. Inside plays a clause or simple sentence role. And john threw the ball that was read, the relative clause that was read has a finite verb, not a non finite verb. And right and like, I have no problem with that, like, I'm not like, Oh, well. This is part of partly how I decided I think my intuition regarding

08:28
artist suppose was was wrong.


My that I was thinking of them as adjectives still. Because I'm not like, Oh, well. This is gonna be relative close. So it's just like an adjective on its own. I don't have that, like, I have no problem. You know, with the analysis of this. It's like, this clause has


a subject,


this that standing for ball, the linking for compliment, telling us about the ball. And the whole thing serves as an adjective modifiable, is there's no problem there. But I did have a problem with presenting to be judges stuff. So I thought that was a good post. So and had a follow up to one of the LA posts that was just talking about or she says, How about if we say the following when analyzing, pretending and singing well wasn't enough for the actors pretending to be judges. Pretending is a verbal, a present participle. Pretending to be judges is a phrase, the phrase functions as an adjective that modifies actors.

09:50
And so


I think that sounds reasonable. And I think I'm realizing some more of the basis of my confusion was that


essentially,


I was viewing

10:07
it was viewing participants, as like the form of a verb which by itself functions as an adjective, or actually, I mean before and you could find some discussion history on this analyst, I was even stronger. Now. I was I'd had an even stronger position, where I was like, a participle is an adjective, full stop. The connection to verbs is like an etymological historical detail of interest to grammar nerds. But that's it. It's just an adjective.


That's all we're john.


And so I think, maybe the better view is like, you could still roughly Think of it as like, well, it's, it's the verb form. That is that services an adjective, but it's like, and detail now can serve as an adjective by itself. Or it can serve as like the head of a clause, or whatever phrase, which serves as an adjective. And at root, it's a verb. Like at the lowest level of analysis, it's a verb.


So I read some stuff.

11:30
So I was looking at this thing from and I said, that's, that sounds okay to me. And then, because we've been talking about part of suppose and participle phrases or participle phrases in this thread, so I said, I was thinking about the idea of participle phrases. And I was up some examples online, but I'm having trouble formulating here, I should say formulating a statement of what they exactly are that I find clearing convincing. One definition I found. And there's this definition from psycho shocks about various things.


And it says,


My thing is, it's it says they're set off by commerce and all the examples that they use, are set off by commerce. And so I commented the setup by commerce partner, it seems to exclude quickly rising, and the quickly rising sun shone brightly as a participle participle phrase, it would also exclude, exclude pretending to be judges and singing well wasn't enough for actors.


For the actors pretending to be judges.

12:49
I'm not sure about this definition. The page history examples.


March there,


participle phrase and Asterix, invented by a housewife, and yet a housewife in 1889. The first dishwasher was driven by a steam engine.


And

13:12
I also tried to think of some cases where verbs can serve as the head of a Fraser claws oops, I edited this.


Wish operators and adjectives seems like participle infinitives and finite verbs and relative clauses


are three examples.


Maybe there are more

13:37
so some


some feeling pretty confused. So I'm just putting a confusion disclaimer.


It's okay to be confused.


Right some that

14:15
say


alright so and had been talking about this pickoff sentence. When jack came into the room he began to remove his coat a wise move. Now this is actually an analysis and then and had said pickoff calls when an adverb EO conjunction or conjunct of adverb? He says it's both a conjunction in an adverb? Yeah, that's pretty clear from this terminology choice. I'd rather just call it a conjunction. It joins two clauses I agree. Most Extreme areas agree that when is only conjunction in this kind of sons. I'm not sure if I should post all the dictionary stuff I found. I replied, You could try posting some illustrative definitions to give a sense of what you found meaning like, and doesn't have to post everything but she could share some stuff so people have some idea. Most dictionary is and now most dictionaries give some adverb definitions of one and some conjunction definitions of when the sentence in this exercise fits a conjunction definition here's part of what Merriam Webster says


a time


when you will return

15:51
this is the adverb


conjunction


ensuring that Hi I'm wall


went fishing

16:06
when he was a boy.


So Merriam Webster splits up adverb in conjunction with Cambridge says that one is an adverb and a conjunction and a conjunction.


It doesn't say which one show in as an ever and what show it show it as a conjunction. Or maybe they made that one is better than ever better conjunction at same time. Yeah, I would say if it's presenting it like this. that's reasonable to read it as like it could be its operating as both


brought up the page here for Cambridge.

17:00
Yeah, and they have


they have a conjunction entry.


Oh, this is weird. So


they have this stuff for when

17:19
can you conjunction advert and then


you've got like a bigger entry.


Okay, I find the presentation here where we got is it just like the preview What's going on here? At what time at which time


I found the dictionary on my Mac melon,

17:53
which has this adverb conjunction thing.


But then


it kind of breaks it up.


See so it's talking about can be used in following ways as a conjunction connecting to clauses. When he saw me he way that's clearly that's clearly two clauses as a question adverb introducing a question or a director and direct question.

18:24
As a relative adverb


referring back to a noun and introducing relative clause. I remember the day which day the day when the war began that's that's the


doing question based analysis little bit.


And she she's in a closet is a subject of another clause subject object compliment.

18:47
My proudest moment was


what was it when I received the poetry prize? Okay.


Just gonna say I found the Cambridge dictionary.


Presentation a bit confusing.

19:09
FYI. Here's McMillan's spelling that right, extra I and tree for YN. And they also say it's both an adverb and conjunction. But they break up their discussion into every cases and conjunction cases.


Say but say, have a note.


Now just paste a note.


You can send that Yeah.

20:18
No, that's cool. So and is going through the dictionary?


And


she thinks the function of wine is


I did tell you about it.

20:38
So we've got conversation. discussion, I did tell you about it when I don't remember. And says when is an adverb, it refers back to the first sons. There are some implied words to sentence one is something like, when did I tell you about it? modifies to tell.


Right. So?


Yeah. implied words. I mean, that makes sense. Like, you could read this as another way you could read it as I did tell you about it. You did tell me about it when? I don't remember.


So okay.

21:23
Do you read it that way? It's clearly not can joining like two clauses. So this is another one. Question where it's rearranging the subject, and the verb? And then second, the question word at the end, can get you something that's a bit clearer? Because the question word at the beginning can be weird. But if you think of this, as you are going when we have a clear, are you just you know, I like the definition also fits in there. At what time you know, as as it is, At what time? Are you going? Okay. If I start going? This is this is especially tricky because we've got the verb contraction with the question where she really got to pull this sucker apart. So the first step is like, when is the baby do and then you can rearrange the baby is do one,


baby is to at what time.


So as I'm going through here, I'm using a lot of earlier this, I'm using a couple of things, from my helpful tips, which is substituting in the different words, and rearranging the words. And also thinking about implied words. So these are all very helpful. Because these are, this is some of the toolkit. I mean, there's like explicit analytic steps that I have here to the sense elements, marketing phrases, and clauses. But then there's also


like, a lot of this stuff is more methodical.

23:33
There's a definite general method that you can apply. Whereas this stuff is more like playing with stuff thinking about stuff, getting a little creative. So but it's good to do both


things. So you're saying


adverb modifies, do another way to write the census. The baby is do one. Yes,


yes, I agree.

23:56
Well go when you're ready. So we will go. When you are ready. That seems like a conjunction. transit, your clauses will go on, you're ready. I agree. So my guess this is today, what's going on here? So imperative, so implied subject you tell me


to start? When?


So because there's no there's no clause here? So there's no


conjunction?

24:36
Yeah, I found this a bit tricky. But then I did the question based thing in my head and am I okay? So, verb tell who tells implied you, tells me


tells me what to start.


About to start when to start. So I think it's modifying this is a key where the infinitive actually an indirect object case on because you tell me to start, and then the the john through me double. So just started as a direct. And then since this is an infinitive, they can take this it's a verb, okay? That since it's a verb, it can take an adverb.


Let's see if an agrees is very exciting. Okay.

25:32
Just as an infinitive phrase, that is the object of tell this looks good. I really had I really had to pontificate that was a that was a beard striker. Okay. Ask him when he's next coming home. So you ask him implied you


want when he is


next coming up? is a conjunction. It's joining us cam. And he is next coming on? Or he's coming home next if you want to. Because this next, this next is in sort of a weird place for my preference.


Hmm, did I error let's see.

26:36
So I just asked and my nano to cause analysis on this one.


Okay,


so


when do you expect out of the project completed by oops, let me not

26:52
on spoilers. But yeah, I already All right.


Yeah, that's that's an adverb.


Their way of phrasing it would be you do expect to have the project completed by when.


Or if there's, I

27:14
think, when there's an adverb that modifies completed, or if there's a buy in the sons, and buy one is an adverb bill preposition, or phrase that modifies completed. And when is a pronoun


and the object by


so I just say, I'm not sure about the bio and pronounce stuff. Otherwise, I agree. So nice sentences. She was only 21. She had her first baby. And she was only 20. She had her first baby. When conjunction and agrees.


You were shocked when I told him.

28:07
conjunction? Yeah.


I hate it.


When there's no one in the office.


I hate it.

28:21
There's no one in the office.


and analyze this. This conjunction? I agree.


I went there when I was a child more conjunction. I was just getting into the bath when the phone rang. Mark conjunction? Yeah.


Let me just think about this for a second.

29:09
Right. So it's a general fact of so called subordinating conjunctions, that you could either view them as a conjunction or as a realtor turning something into something else.


But


it seems like in general, and was doing I mean, I could be making a total mistake here, but it'll be good to that clarified anyway. It seems like in general, and was doing the conjunction view. But then she went with a kind of related review here. I'm not.


I don't quite follow.

29:53
Also, I'm not sure I was hand but like, I think it'd be weird if a word was serving as like a later that's making something into a direct object. But then I'm internally was in a closet serves as an adverb. Because like, if something


like I can't think of when that would happen


to me, I'm sensing this.


So I want to do a kickoff exercise to

30:35
buy my own self.


Right. I did my analysis. And now look at Kate. I mean,


okay.


Oh, yeah. Didn't even come into the room. JACK began to

31:05
say, Oh,


I made a number of brackets error. I got the right. groupings, but the wrong


okay.


Oh, and I guess and it's just doing phrases.

31:33
Oh, you know.


So, I made a mistake, this whole thing is the claws. See? For some reason, I was thinking of the phrases like I was almost thinking of it as separate. Even though this is an adjective, then it's just too much outline gives you the idea, right? So I'm not gonna say is correct.


Okay, otherwise


it looks good.

32:12
I'm just gonna start noting, don't lose track of my errors. So for some reason, I incorrectly groups.


This


as a clause


even though the whole expression

32:40
is the main clause


I did my own analysis.


Otherwise, it was


okay, as far as the markings on the sides and error where I didn't close out where I omitted one right angle. bracket. Okay. action verb I didn't specify action verb bit.

33:21
So jack jack


Okay, we agree so far.


Yeah.


infinitive phrase true moves and infinitive verbal code is the object of your move. His is a possessive. ON says possessive determiner is a possessive adjective that's.

33:47
I think both are fine.


You determine is your a type of adjective. You say tomato I say tomato. Coming into the room. participle phrase that functions is an adjective and modifies jack. Within that phrase into the room is oppression preposition or phrase that functions as an adverb and modifies the verbal coming. Its preposition into and as noun as room the determiner that modifies room. Oh, I didn't do the meaning. Okay. JACK began to remove his coach. On entry into the room. Right. Or


as he was entering the room?


Yeah, that's fair.

34:51
Oh, yeah. For meaning we're breaking things up more. That's right. Yeah, okay. Right, because meaning is sort of like, like, we do a lot of stuff where we join the sun says he is we're making choices about what is important. And what, what's the main idea? What's more subordinate idea what can be an express what can be expressed in a word, what can be omitted. And so we're enjoying the meaning of the expression, we want to go more back to the sort of, we want to like unzip the file of the sentence into its more constituent parts.


I will send that


so and has is quoting me from earlier this year, because I I started working on the peak, of course, and then I sort of hit the skids. And then I ended up doing Elliot's thing, which I found it easier and better explained. So, let me look at this sentence with fresh eyes. All right, so and is putting my previous analysis. I personally Miss analyze this at first and still have an open objection to the cost analysis. And initially said her grave sculptures was an adjective or propositional phrase describing the type of get, like sculpture debt or something. Yeah, I don't think that's quite right. And I think this argument I have, I thought up as I was doing this analysis, give some indication as to why this I think the right like, Italy or a historic debt of $1 trillion, you couldn't say you can say, of $1 trillion. Italy owes a historic debt. But you can say to her great sculptors, Italy owes his direct debt. And I think thats related to the ad for Bill nature. So, April, Justin, I think is mistaken. Which is okay because he knew this thing's pickoff says sculptors is an indirect object. The Dead is the object, which I take him to me in the direct object. So the debt direct out jack is owed verb to the sculptures. A prior understanding was that indirect objects do not involve propositional phrases by definition. Right. So Pico says sculptures is an indirect object. I don't think that makes sense because an indirect object is as La describes it, a shortcut. They are nouns that come after verbs and have an implied two or four in front. But sculptor's has an explicit to in French. So how could it be an indirect object, it's just, it's just a propositional phrase. It's not an adjective, adjective, title, preposition or phrase. I think it's an adverb preposition or phrase ending Elliot la its analysis degrees he gives the example I threw her the ball. Her is an indirect object which means to her which is a preposition or phrase modifying through which is a verb, we should make the phrase an adverb. So I think this current analysis that I have makes sense prior understanding was an indirect objects do not involve propositional phrases by definition Yes.


Okay, give a transcript

39:39
of this will be this will be interesting.


And saying I mean the organization is a little different but it seems to agree and the essential I seem to agree with myself and the essential points


one difference is that


I tried to break down can and bit more as a verb phrase.

40:12
And I was more descriptive.


Whereas it


got she and my crown one


But yeah, I made the same point about the fragment

40:26
ah


ok so and


says I did look up in direct objects when I did this exercise some places include indirect objects introduced by two and some don't and decided to call these direct objects way although I don't have a reason other than it seems right to me. What is she calling direct object


say figure it out

41:04
is my analysis


oh you know I think and is right here. Cuz I wasn't I was just like, Oh, it's a fragment whatever. But it's still group of words. So the whole thing gets


gets brackets


I should call this summary IV a better name. Grammar analysis Italy owes historic debtor great sculptures.

41:55
Other than the other than this part which is Picasa but which I find an unconventional um I agree. Italy owes a debt. Yeah. preposition to since the indirect object is after the direct object, the preposition to is used for the direct indirect object. Okay, that's because that's how she's explaining it.


I'm


going to start replying to this because I have a few questions and issues.


So I did start some places. So I just said I found Elliot's a persuasive and pasted some regarding indirect objects and what they are.

43:00
The next thing


I agree, I initially didn't analyze this as being a noun phrase. Thanks.


Just noted my argument regarding


why I think you're great sculptures is an adverb like that. You can move it move it around. So why it's not an adjective propositional phrase. Okay.

43:33
just pasted my analysis in.


All right,


call that a video.