(8:23:39 PM) ***Godwinson moves the PM discussion with farls out here
(8:23:50 PM) Xavios: soon, the citadel grand fleet will rule the waves!
(8:23:53 PM) DigitalSocrates: hey, the 8 Bit Theatre guys travelled in Deathtraps and they /sometimes/ didn't crash
(8:23:54 PM) Godwinson: Maybe get some input from others.
(8:23:58 PM) ***farland flushes the oceans
(8:23:59 PM) Iscariot: space waves.
(8:24:05 PM) Xavios: ! 5 elites so far
(8:24:08 PM) Godwinson: I had an idea for a rather interesting galaxy setup
(8:24:20 PM) Saithis: So far the HMS Shadow Wake has served me well, but with Galle starting design plans on the Draco update.
(8:24:25 PM) Saithis: on the Draco class*
(8:24:25 PM) Godwinson: Assuming you could get a new galaxy out of Simon
(8:24:27 PM) Xavios: CCS Lorenz, CCS Sword, CCS Justice, CCS Theodore and CCS Dieter
(8:24:32 PM) ***DigitalSocrates eats bland but spicy salsa and chips
(8:24:47 PM) Godwinson: Basic idea is that the Emperor would be set as a single house
(8:24:51 PM) ***Saithis tickles Xavios until he relents into flying her ships!  D:<
(8:25:04 PM) Xavios: D:
(8:25:07 PM) ***Xavios relents
(8:25:09 PM) Godwinson: *Myst* would be the prohibited and restricted sphere
(8:25:15 PM) Xavios: I mean I can't at the moment
(8:25:15 PM) Saithis: FLY THEEEEEEM
(8:25:24 PM) DigitalSocrates: the emperor being a set house was probably the idea behind IN to start with
(8:25:24 PM) farland: Xav!  Escape to siberia!
(8:25:26 PM) Godwinson: Only one "religion", the "Imperial Bureacracy" is allowed
(8:25:27 PM) Saithis: xD
(8:25:28 PM) DigitalSocrates: it was just modified later
(8:25:53 PM) Sollypop [Sollypop@14055a3d.6ca5ecde.80.71.imsk] entered the room.
(8:25:58 PM) Saithis: Would it be the Emperor's only allowed sphere?
(8:25:59 PM) Godwinson: The Emperor is prohibited from any other economic sphere, except maybe a single tech stack, if you're not going with a low-tech galaxy
(8:26:10 PM) Xavios: sounds like this emperor would be overthrown in a few hours
(8:26:10 PM) Godwinson: Only *economic* sphere
(8:26:18 PM) Iscariot: low tech galaxies for the win.
(8:26:30 PM) farland: If everyone has high tech...it seems like low tech!
(8:26:32 PM) farland: mwhahahahahaha
(8:26:33 PM) farland: hahahaah
(8:26:34 PM) farland: hahahahaha
(8:26:36 PM) DigitalSocrates: well godwinson's idea hinges on that no one would overthrow him
(8:26:37 PM) farland: hahhahahahahahahhhhaaa
(8:26:48 PM) farland: ha
(8:26:51 PM) Xavios: but please, continue
(8:26:58 PM) Godwinson: They could have Military and Covert Ops and Politics and Finance, so long as they only built enough academies for their *set* homeworld
(8:27:03 PM) Godwinson: No changing HQ's
(8:27:08 PM) Xavios: I'm sure there are good sides to your plan other than "give the emperor the most powerful sphere" :P
(8:27:09 PM) Godwinson: There is a single, set, capital
(8:27:16 PM) Godwinson: The upside of this
(8:27:21 PM) DigitalSocrates:     imagine fornux, but the emperor wasn't matsu
(8:27:21 PM) Saithis: I think the idea hinges on the idea that the Empire has no infrastructure beyond the mysticism.
(8:27:34 PM) Godwinson: Is that the emperor is held apart from competing with everyone else, economically
(8:27:45 PM) Saithis: And serves as mostly a neutral force in all politics, only obeying the law, and is left alone by the nobles, who instead compete amongst each other.
(8:27:45 PM) Godwinson: And that Myst is typically how monopole houses form
(8:27:48 PM) Godwinson: Yes
(8:27:48 PM) Saithis: Maybe swaying the Emperor.
(8:27:51 PM) Godwinson: Exactly
(8:28:00 PM) Saithis: Mysticism is a very good sphere.
(8:28:00 PM) Saithis: But it takes a long time to get anywhere
(8:28:00 PM) Saithis: And on top of that.
(8:28:08 PM) Godwinson: You'd need to *very* carefully pick who played the Emperor
(8:28:11 PM) Xavios: but who would be emperor?
(8:28:12 PM) Saithis: It doesn't match real infrastructure in terms of scale.  Infrastructure still applies.
(8:28:17 PM) DigitalSocrates: he'll be dependent on other people proseletyzing
(8:28:18 PM) DigitalSocrates: until it gets momentum
(8:28:18 PM) Xavios: who would you trust with MILLIONS in income
(8:28:24 PM) Saithis: You'd need someone who is willing to be neutral and not interfere.
(8:28:26 PM) Godwinson: Yes
(8:28:33 PM) Saithis: I'd do it, I don't mind being a neutral observer (in fact I prefer it).
(8:28:34 PM) Godwinson: The entire point of the idea
(8:28:49 PM) Godwinson: Is that it's an attempt to completely alter the basic dynamic of IN
(8:28:50 PM) Saithis: But sadly it is unlikely to happen unless we get v1's code.
(8:28:51 PM) Xavios: so what would the emperor do?
(8:28:54 PM) Xavios: just earn money?
(8:28:55 PM) Godwinson: Within the same ruleset
(8:28:55 PM) farland: I am being neutral and not interfering now!  despite a big army!
(8:29:00 PM) Xavios: sit around?
(8:29:02 PM) Godwinson: No
(8:29:11 PM) farland: Mostly though that is called, watch the world burn, more than being neutral
(8:29:33 PM) Godwinson: The Emperor would do the usual duties of minnow aid and protecting against raging renegades
(8:29:34 PM) Godwinson: But
(8:29:36 PM) Godwinson: The key thing
(8:29:45 PM) Godwinson: Is that the Emperor enforces the will of the Senate
(8:29:52 PM) Iscariot: rene... gade?
(8:29:56 PM) Godwinson: The Senate is less an elected body
(8:29:58 PM) Saithis: The Emperor will be the neutral arbiter of the Senate.
(8:30:08 PM) Godwinson: And more the swayed bureaucrats of the Empire
(8:30:13 PM) farland: people like xav isc
(8:30:14 PM) farland: ;)
(8:30:33 PM) Godwinson: This isn't supposed to be Gemini V2.0
(8:30:37 PM) Godwinson: Nor any other galaxy
(8:30:49 PM) Xavios: doesn't sound like it'd be very fun to play in
(8:30:50 PM) Godwinson: This would be something that's an attempt at being completely different
(8:30:59 PM) DigitalSocrates: galaxy H
(8:31:04 PM) Xavios: with an emperor who's just unstoppably powerful in comparison to all other houses
(8:31:06 PM) DigitalSocrates: what would that likely be?
(8:31:13 PM) Saithis: Xavios, he wouldn't be unstoppably powerful, that's kind of the point.
(8:31:16 PM) Saithis: The Emperor would have no allies.
(8:31:27 PM) Saithis: And only one economy sphere.
(8:31:34 PM) Godwinson: No allies, legally restricted, one economy sphere
(8:31:37 PM) Saithis: Admittedly the best one, after you put millions of solars of investment into it.
(8:31:43 PM) Xavios: if you're the only house in a galaxy with myst you DON'T NEED ALLIES
(8:31:53 PM) Godwinson: The point is that it makes the Emperor apart from the galaxy
(8:31:54 PM) Saithis: Infrastructure still applies to mysticism, no matter how great it is.
(8:31:58 PM) Xavios: long term the idea is silly, in my opinion
(8:32:01 PM) Saithis: And you will *not* be a match for the entire rest of the galaxy
(8:32:06 PM) Xavios: yeah
(8:32:11 PM) Godwinson: And removes one of the biggest stumbling blocks to dealing with crazy monopoles
(8:32:12 PM) Saithis: Mysticism is very good but it is no replacement for an Imperial House
(8:32:19 PM) Xavios: but infrastructure doesn't kick in until you have like 15 99.1% planets
(8:32:22 PM) Saithis: With 7 spheres, multiple conomy spheres and power infrastructure.
(8:32:26 PM) Saithis: economy*
(8:32:36 PM) Saithis: The point is that it does kick in.
(8:32:46 PM) DigitalSocrates: (We need you to fix the conomy!)
(8:32:48 PM) Saithis: And without any allies
(8:32:50 PM) Saithis: It won't matter anyway
(8:32:58 PM) Xavios: yeah
(8:33:00 PM) Xavios: but they'd be earning 2m a month
(8:33:01 PM) Saithis: The Emperor cannot be unstoppably powered if it has no allies
(8:33:01 PM) Xavios: net
(8:33:18 PM) Saithis: In any case.
(8:33:26 PM) Saithis: This is also why you need a good set of hands at the wheel, to ensure they don't abuse the power.
(8:33:39 PM) Saithis: The Emperor in such a galaxy needs to be half-GM, half-player.
(8:33:44 PM) Godwinson: The whole point is to remove the Imperial versus Non-Imperial duopoly in most galaxies
(8:33:46 PM) Saithis: Doing what is good for the galaxy over what is good for their house, to ensure the fun.
(8:33:46 PM) Godwinson: Yes
(8:33:48 PM) Godwinson: Exactly
(8:33:49 PM) DigitalSocrates: xav, how does that compare to Slick Ink in E?
(8:33:58 PM) DigitalSocrates: who has Myst, /and/ all the profit spheres?
(8:34:06 PM) Saithis: It's not terribly dissimilar in concept to what I wanted F to be, before Simon ruined it with Matsu
(8:34:11 PM) DigitalSocrates: and sevaral major and great house allies
(8:34:16 PM) Xavios: this emperor, once fully expanded, could maintain 550 legions and still earn 1m a month
(8:34:23 PM) Saithis: I was going to set up RP, 'missions' from the Empire, etc.
(8:34:37 PM) Xavios: if shit got real they could have 1000 and still not lose money
(8:34:38 PM) Saithis: I had a whole storyline worked out about a shattered Empire that had just recovered, I was going to withdraw all but the Imperial homeworld in the centre from IJ
(8:34:42 PM) DigitalSocrates: goratrix probably does that now
(8:34:45 PM) Godwinson: And the Emperor is *totally* bound by the will of the Senate
(8:34:47 PM) Xavios: yeah
(8:34:53 PM) Saithis: And send the houses on a mission to reclaim the lost worlds of the galaxy
(8:34:58 PM) Xavios: exactly
(8:34:59 PM) Saithis: Giving out monetary rewards, incentives, etc.
(8:35:03 PM) Xavios: and you're building a monopole into the galaxy
(8:35:13 PM) Xavios: sure it restricts other giants
(8:35:17 PM) Godwinson: Monopoles are damned near inevitable
(8:35:20 PM) Godwinson: I am accepting that
(8:35:25 PM) Godwinson: And working *around* it
(8:35:45 PM) Godwinson: I am ensuring the best possible monopole from the start
(8:35:49 PM) Godwinson: And shackling him
(8:36:03 PM) Saithis: I like the idea, although the biggest restriction is that the lack of any other religions may restrict RP somewhat, although that can be circumvented if religion remains an RP-only thing
(8:36:20 PM) Godwinson: The "religion" would literally just be the Imperial Bureacracy
(8:36:31 PM) Godwinson: Non-mechanical religions would be completely fine
(8:36:42 PM) Godwinson: It's the mechanical side of Myst that is most problematic
(8:36:43 PM) Saithis: Yes but a lot of people like to roleplay religions, outside of the mysticism sphere as a benefit.
(8:36:48 PM) Saithis: I know I do.
(8:36:48 PM) Saithis: Yeah.
(8:37:18 PM) Godwinson: Alongside Public Works and Tech Level, it's what makes monopoles and duopoles so damned impossible to uproot.
(8:37:28 PM) Godwinson: Oh
(8:37:32 PM) Godwinson: That'd be another thing
(8:37:37 PM) DigitalSocrates: i had a religion in C
(8:37:39 PM) Godwinson: A lock-down on Public Works
(8:37:41 PM) DigitalSocrates: never got around to opening Myst though
(8:38:39 PM) Xavios: how would you deal with the fact that the emperor would be a black hole of influence?
(8:38:52 PM) Godwinson: Hold on
(8:39:05 PM) DigitalSocrates: like constantine in E, where he spammed 2 planetary reserves in every planet in range?
(8:39:10 PM) Godwinson: How many myst facs would 99.1% faith on a world allow?
(8:39:23 PM) Xavios: 80 or something?
(8:39:24 PM) DigitalSocrates: a ton
(8:39:39 PM) DigitalSocrates: plus 3 great temples
(8:39:43 PM) DigitalSocrates: and however many smaller temples
(8:39:44 PM) Godwinson: 61
(8:39:46 PM) Xavios: 1 shrine for every 2%, 1 temple for every 5%, 3 great temples
(8:39:49 PM) Godwinson: oh
(8:39:51 PM) ***Iscariot returns with cake
(8:39:56 PM) Godwinson: 70
(8:40:10 PM) Sollypop: 63, actually.
(8:40:15 PM) Godwinson: 70 facs plus the 99.1% influence
(8:40:17 PM) Saithis: 1 temple for every 10%*
(8:40:18 PM) Godwinson: huh?
(8:40:22 PM) Iscariot: wait
(8:40:24 PM) Godwinson: It's 10%?
(8:40:24 PM) Sollypop: one temple per 10%, not 5%
(8:40:26 PM) Iscariot: how are monopoles inevitable
(8:40:29 PM) Xavios: oh
(8:40:33 PM) Xavios: didn't know it was 10%
(8:40:34 PM) ***Iscariot notes that Gemini does not have a monopole.
(8:41:08 PM) DigitalSocrates: the lack of range makes it so there aren't monopoles galaxy wide
(8:41:17 PM) DigitalSocrates: but the lack of range has other drawbacks
(8:41:29 PM) DigitalSocrates: any war is inconclusive
(8:41:33 PM) Godwinson: Aye
(8:41:35 PM) Sollypop: Yeah, Godwinson, your 61 figure was right
(8:41:42 PM) Godwinson: This is an idea for a *different* approach.
(8:41:42 PM) Sollypop: I just forgot to round down
(8:41:53 PM) Iscariot: I dont' see how you could say war is inconclusive and have played in gemini
(8:42:03 PM) Iscariot: wars have been very conclusive
(8:42:05 PM) Iscariot: the most recent war was astonishingly conclusive
(8:42:09 PM) DigitalSocrates: yeah, if you can get friends to gangbang one person
(8:42:10 PM) Godwinson: One that includes the idea of everyone jockeying for power under the "power" of the throne
(8:42:13 PM) DigitalSocrates: well i wasn't there
(8:42:13 PM) Iscariot: I broke the back of the AI-- they are no longer around
(8:42:17 PM) Iscariot: and it wasn't a gangbang
(8:42:21 PM) Iscariot: it was a very even war.
(8:42:31 PM) DigitalSocrates: oh, okay then
(8:42:50 PM) mode (+v Sollypop) by Xavios
(8:42:51 PM) Godwinson: So, there are no houses in Gemini that could be monopoles?
(8:43:02 PM) Godwinson: Kailas, for example?
(8:43:06 PM) Iscariot: anyone 'could be' a monopole
(8:43:06 PM) DigitalSocrates: i know that a war with kailas back in the day would have been 'kailas destroys everything of mine in his range, i destroy like half his stuff in my range'
(8:43:11 PM) Iscariot: no one /is/ a monopole
(8:43:21 PM) Iscariot: not as invincible as he looks
(8:43:25 PM) DigitalSocrates: @godwinson: there's perception and then reality
(8:43:26 PM) Xavios: skaoi isn't unstoppable
(8:43:32 PM) Xavios: it's just a strong house
(8:43:35 PM) DigitalSocrates: he certainly gives the /impression/ of being a monopole
(8:43:36 PM) Godwinson: This is besides the point
(8:43:37 PM) Iscariot: his inability to make friends leaves him personally powerful but burdened with a weak allaince
(8:43:44 PM) DigitalSocrates: it doesn't help that he has the loyalty of every house near him
(8:43:46 PM) farland: unwillingess is not inability
(8:43:47 PM) Iscariot: also
(8:43:51 PM) Iscariot: Forge now matches his military
(8:43:52 PM) DigitalSocrates: with no competitors or rivals
(8:43:56 PM) Godwinson: In any high-tech galaxy, you're going to develop either a monopole or a duopole scheme
(8:44:02 PM) Xavios: forge doesn't match Skaoi's military
(8:44:04 PM) Godwinson: Does anyone dispute this?
(8:44:09 PM) Iscariot: I heard he did
(8:44:14 PM) Iscariot: seventy legions the both of them
(8:44:20 PM) Iscariot: Gemini  has, at best, a tripole
(8:44:21 PM) Xavios: forge has 70 legions?
(8:44:22 PM) Xavios: goddamnit
(8:44:33 PM) Godwinson: I'm not talking about Gemini
(8:44:37 PM) farland: Slacker xav!
(8:44:42 PM) Iscariot: oh, right
(8:44:42 PM) Iscariot: high tech
(8:44:43 PM) Iscariot: fair enough
(8:44:48 PM) Godwinson: Gemini is tackling the issue by ignoring an empire and forcing tech level
(8:44:51 PM) Iscariot: yes, high tech allows money to build more money
(8:44:55 PM) Godwinson: I'm looking at a different approach
(8:44:57 PM) Iscariot: well
(8:45:01 PM) Iscariot: accelerates the ability
(8:45:01 PM) Iscariot: but yes
(8:45:02 PM) Iscariot: carry on
(8:45:08 PM) Godwinson: Not saying that Gemini's approach doesn't work
(8:45:10 PM) Godwinson: But just
(8:45:12 PM) Godwinson: Options!
(8:45:25 PM) Iscariot: no no
(8:45:26 PM) Iscariot: I hear you
(8:45:29 PM) Xavios: I'd suggest a limited tech in this potential galaxy anyway
(8:45:32 PM) Xavios: tech is too broken
(8:45:42 PM) Iscariot: Gemini's problems are completely.... out of character
(8:45:44 PM) Godwinson: The concept is to embrace the High Tech galaxy's monopole and build it inot the system
(8:45:53 PM) Iscariot: and... personal
(8:45:55 PM) Godwinson: *into
(8:45:59 PM) Iscariot: which is unfortunate, and disgraceful
(8:46:03 PM) Godwinson: The monopole is the Emperor
(8:46:07 PM) Godwinson: Who is bound by the Senate
(8:46:09 PM) Matticus [Matticus@8b74c857.jetstream.xtra.14056081.nz.hmsk] entered the room.
(8:46:10 PM) mode (+v Matticus) by ChanServ
(8:46:16 PM) Matticus: fucking minecraft
(8:46:20 PM) Matticus: I found the arctic places
(8:46:21 PM) Xavios: well it sounds interesting
(8:46:22 PM) Maslab: How does it work?
(8:46:23 PM) Matticus: but night fell
(8:46:23 PM) Iscariot: did you fall in lava?
(8:46:26 PM) Xavios: I wouldn't play in it
(8:46:26 PM) Matticus: so I dug in for the night
(8:46:27 PM) Godwinson: But who also does not compete economically with anyone else.
(8:46:27 PM) DigitalSocrates: low tech would further limit the emperor's power
(8:46:29 PM) CorayThan [CorayThan@421e148a.hsd1.or.5aa6454b.net.hmsk] entered the room.
(8:46:37 PM) Matticus: and I made a little hole to look out of
(8:46:40 PM) Iscariot: falling in lava is the WORST
(8:46:40 PM) DigitalSocrates: since he would have to lose /alot/ of facilities to move to discipline someone
(8:46:40 PM) Matticus: couldn't see any monsters
(8:46:44 PM) Matticus: so I have a look out
(8:46:46 PM) Matticus: and I get attacked
(8:46:50 PM) mode (+v CorayThan) by Xavios
(8:46:51 PM) Matticus: so logically I head back to my entrance
(8:46:53 PM) Matticus: but the game lags.
(8:47:03 PM) Matticus: I can't fucking turn, can't control the guy properly, can't dodge the arrows.
(8:47:18 PM) Matticus: carrying 2 iron swords, picks, and shovels.
(8:47:21 PM) Godwinson: The idea isn't to reduce the monopole economically or militarily
(8:47:24 PM) Xavios: 6 elites!
(8:47:26 PM) Iscariot: haha what
(8:47:26 PM) Xavios: now the fleet has 11
(8:47:27 PM) Iscariot: that's it?
(8:47:28 PM) Xavios: hooahaha
(8:47:32 PM) Godwinson: But to turn the monopole into part of the system