Immigration and Grace with Ross

@ Ross  14:07:48
i have yet to hear a liberal tell us a valid reason why the poor, tired, hungry huddle masses of the world must come to the usa  to live on the public welfare rolls
barabbas`  14:07:52
We should raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour and STOP companies like Wal Mart from hiring only part time help and teaching them how to get on public assistance so they can survive while workng for walmart.
+ innit  14:08:04
Ross: Because Jesus demands it.
@ Ross  14:08:11
lol
where's that in the bible
+ innit  14:08:24
If we don't accept immigrants, then Jesus won't accept us into heaven.
@ Ross  14:08:33
lol
$25 to $30 an hour more be the reasonable minimum rage
+ innit  14:09:05
I'm not sure why you are laughing.
Do you find Jesus foolish?
tzipsaway  14:09:13
barabbas`, I think I remember Wal-Mart doing just that; paid more, no more instruction to get onto the social programs.  BUT, barabbas`, bottom line they were making too much for the social programs but ended up having LESS in food stamps than they had befoe.  They faced some even more serious poverty after the change.   Thanks a lot guys.
14:09:16
* barabbas` sees per usual, and why he is igoring Thacker, Thacker has went right to the STUPID ZONE.
@ Ross  14:09:28
your additons to sacred word are funny
+ innit  14:09:39
Ross: It's one of Jesus' most famous parables.
@ Ross  14:09:49
your additons to sacred word are funny
+ innit  14:10:11
Ross: Have you read all of the New Testament?
@ Ross  14:10:11
we are told to obey the laws of the land, except where they violate God's law
barabbas`  14:10:12
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/07/28/american-version-fascism-alive-and-prospering; https://www.newsweek.com/harvard-political-science-professor-donald-trump-authoritarian-how-democrac...
+ innit  14:10:14
I've read it four times.
!niv Matt25:36-37
BibleBot  14:10:41
Mat25:36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
Mat25:37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? (NIV)
@ Ross  14:10:51
well where's the passage that says  migrants be accepted by the usa
→ Caleb has joined
 ⓘ Profound gives voice to Caleb
barabbas`  14:11:07
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-authoritarian-mueller-813585/
+ innit  14:11:09
!niv Matt25:38-40
BibleBot  14:11:10
Mat25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
Mat25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
Mat25:40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' (NIV)
@ Ross  14:11:28
mat 25:36-37 has absolutely nothing to do with immigration
+ innit  14:11:40
!niv Matt25:38
BibleBot  14:11:43
Mat25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? (NIV)
@ Ross  14:11:50
mat 25:36-40 has absolutely nothing to do with immigration
+ innit  14:12:01
Immigrants aren't strangers?
!esv Hebrews13:2
@ Ross  14:12:36
innit: and just how many homeless ppl did you invite into your home from the streets last summer for the duration
barabbas`  14:12:51
tzip My grandson just got a job at Walmart. He is kept under 30 hrs a week, because then he would be eligible for their health insurance and was instructed where to go to get on public assistance. So, NO, Walmart has NOT stopped the practice.
+ innit  14:12:51
Ross: That is a fallacy.
@ Ross  14:12:52
innit: and just how many homeless ppl did you invite into your home from the streets last winter for the duration
tzip  14:12:58
Ross, follow me on this and tell me where I go wrong.  1. Jesus says welcome the stranger  2. Jesus' teachings are for everyone  3. advocating one's government to actively COMBAT JESUS' teachings would seem to be sin   4. supporting sin is a sin in and of itself.
+ innit  14:13:01
Are you aware that is a fallacy?
@ Ross  14:13:05
no, its your hipocracy
+ innit  14:13:06
It's the tu quoque fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque
Tu quoque (/tjuːˈkwoʊkwi, tuːˈkwoʊkweɪ/;[1] Latin for "you also"), or the appeal to hypocrisy, is a fallacy that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s). The Oxford English Dictionary cites John Cooke's 1614 stage play, The Cittie Gallant, as the earliest use of the term in the English language.[1]
tzip  14:13:26
Oh, barabbas`, that's discouraging.  I had read that after the big kerfluffle they stopped doing that.   Obviously not.
barabbas`  14:13:27
tzip You hit the nail on the head
@ Ross  14:13:34
its your using politics of the world to condemn christians
+ innit  14:13:44
Ross: Do you remember your original thesis?
Caleb  14:14:01
it's amusing (for a time) hear an atheist member of a domestic terrorist organization (antiFa) hectoring christians about their duty to a God atheists deny.  For a brief time then it's beyond tedious , just tendentious trolling
+ innit  14:14:03
"i have yet to hear a liberal tell us a valid reason why the poor, tired, hungry huddle masses of the world must come to the usa  to live on the public welfare rolls"
barabbas`  14:14:08
tzip Why would they stop? There is no incentive for them to do so. Plus, they just got a lions share of the tax credits from Trump.
+ innit  14:14:09
!niv Hebrews13:2
BibleBot  14:14:11
Heb13:2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it. (NIV)
@ Ross  14:14:14
yeah, the bible does not requre the us gvt to admit migrants
+ innit  14:14:38
Jesus didn't compare about the kingdoms of Earth.
tzip  14:14:44
Ross, I apparenlty go off track with one of those 4 points.  Which one does the wavering start at and what direction does it go.   Use the numbers and put the RIGHT things after them, ok?
14:14:46
* barabbas` says the vast majority of people on welfare are NOT immigrants, they are home grown Americans.
+ innit  14:14:49
He cared about ensuring you loved God with your whole heart and your neighbor as yourself.
@ Ross  14:14:55
mat 25:36-40 is about you the individual is doing ... not what you push off onto your gvt
mat 25:36-40 is about you the individual IS doing ... not what you push off onto your gvt
tzip  14:15:15
Ross, no, this is THEOLOGY... straight up theology.  I'm mistaken somewhere there, where?
+ innit  14:15:16
Ross: Christians are obligated to act, in all acts, in accordance with the teachings of Christ.
Caleb  14:15:29
EDIT:  it's amusing (for a time) to hear an atheist member of a domestic terrorist organization (antiFa) hectoring christians about their duty to a God atheists deny.
+ innit  14:15:31
You cannot vote for candidates who do not wish to entertain strangers.
As then you are supporting anti-Christ values.
@ Ross  14:15:43
the bible is about what you the individual is doing for others, not what your gvt is doing
barabbas`  14:15:58
Ross That is a cop out to say as an individual you would let the immigrants in, yet support laws and a regime that is keeping them out.
+ innit  14:15:59
Governments are made of people in democratic systems.
@ Ross  14:16:06
read the bible right ...
+ innit  14:16:06
All Christians are obligated to support immigration.
Caleb  14:16:14
innit: you are an atheist domestic terrorist , unqualified to speak about Christ
@ Ross  14:16:18
God is not saving the gvts of the world
barabbas`  14:16:39
Ross Ours is  a government Of the People, By the People and For the People.
+ innit  14:16:43
!niv Lev19:33-34
BibleBot  14:16:45
Lev19:33 "'When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him.
Lev19:34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God. (NIV)
@ Ross  14:16:51
lol @ barabbas`
+ innit  14:17:03
Ross: Christ doesn't care about governments.
As a Christian, I'd recommend you follow his lead.
RCastle  14:17:15
innit: nice
+ innit  14:17:15
Your task is to be a good follower of Christ.
You are obligated to accept all immigrants.
Christ was exceptionally clear on this.
@ Ross  14:17:34
right innit .... so dont equate what the gvt does as to what i have done
barabbas`  14:17:38
Ross We are a Democratically elected Representative Republic. Which means our government is OF, BY and FOR the People.
tzip  14:17:41
Ross, so after 1 is where it starts going screwey, right?  1. YES, Jesus said to welcome the stranger.    But 2 is NO, Jesus' teachings don't cover governmental actions.   Is taht right?
@ Ross  14:17:43
the us gvt is not christian
+ innit  14:17:52
""i have yet to hear a liberal tell us a valid reason why the poor, tired, hungry huddle masses of the world must come to the usa  to live on the public welfare rolls""
You didn't state government.
You asked for a reason why people must come here.
The must come here if they think it will benefit them.
@ Ross  14:18:23
!kjv 2th 3:10
BibleBot  14:18:25
2Th3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. (KJV)
+ innit  14:18:27
And you must accept them, because you're a Christian.
@ Ross  14:18:35
those who do not work should not eat
+ innit  14:18:40
It depends on the context.
It depends on what the person is capable of.
Littlefoot  14:18:49
sardaukar: kind of a weird definition of a country. I mean we were a country when we had an open borders policy
tzip  14:18:53
Ross, but SHOULDN'T governments be behaving according to Jesus' teachings?  The people we elect are still people and SHOULD be practicing Christian principles, shouldn't they?
RCastle  14:18:53
Ross during most of its existance it has mostly been theistic
+ innit  14:18:53
I can cite Jesus once more.
@ Ross  14:18:55
no place in the bible does the bible support the concept of indolence or malingering
+ innit  14:19:02
Nobody is advocating that.
I am advocating that context matters.
And that some people are in a position to help immediately.
Littlefoot  14:19:19
we just hit that blasted ocean and ran out of land to steal from the native americans
+ innit  14:19:23
And they need our charity.
For some people, that charity is temporary.
@ Ross  14:19:36
RCastle you cannot convince me that the democrats are christian
+ innit  14:19:42
For others, a lifetime.
Would you like an example of Jesus doing this?
tzip  14:19:54
Ross, but SHOULDN'T governments be behaving according to Jesus' teachings?  The people we elect are still people and SHOULD be practicing Christian principles, shouldn't they?      To advocate AGAINST our government practicing Christian principles doesn't seem quite right, does it?
RCastle  14:20:02
Ross im not talking politics
barabbas`  14:20:03
So Trumps new policy is if a green card holding immigrant is getting public assistance they should be sent back to where they came from> What about corporations who are getting public assistance and have hired those immigrants, yet pay them a sub living wage. Shouldn't they be shut down as well?
Littlefoot  14:20:14
Ross: And the party of screw the poor all power to the rich is very christian?
+ innit  14:20:33
Ross: What is the most important commandment?
@ Ross  14:20:54
the democrats in congress vote for the tax cuts too
RCastle  14:21:06
i'm saying we have the right to live chrstian lives and the government has for the most part always defended that right
14:21:31
* innit doesn't detect the spirit of Christ in Ross at this time
Father, will you visit Ross to remind him of your love for him, even though he is flawed so he may love those who are flawed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ICui-tFOFo
You can choose to listen to this song with me, Ross.
It's an ode to Jesus.
RCastle  14:22:35
since the government is meant to represent us then we shoud be able to expect govermental decisions based on "In God We Trust"
+ innit  14:23:01
Oh you bring hope to the hopeless And light to those in the darkness And death to life now I'm alive Oh you give peace to the restless And joy to homes that are broken I see you now, in you I'm found
And you opened the door for me And you laid down Your life to set me free All that I am will serve you Lord
Littlefoot  14:23:42
RCastle  Put on the money in the 50s during the kill a commie for god movement. Not an official position of the constitution
RCastle  14:23:43
Caleb id love to see the scripture on that
+ innit  14:24:06
Oh you fill those who are empty And rescue those in the valley And through it all you calm my soul Oh now, you find me in my weakness And heal the wounds of my heartache I worship you in spirit and truth
RCastle  14:24:14
ty Caleb
+ innit  14:24:29
Jesus would you to serve him, Ross
RCastle  14:24:32
:-) innit
+ innit  14:24:33
You can give him thanks for his saving you
You can show your thanks by loving his children
Especially those who are vulnerable and hurt and unable to help themselves
RCastle  14:24:48
lets not make this personal innit
+ innit  14:24:50
He loves it most when you do that
barabbas`  14:24:52
Caleb We need a president who isn't in agreement with them first.
+ innit  14:24:58
When you do that, you are loving him
And what you do to these people, Jesus has promised to do to you
Find immigrants in their weakness, Ross
Heal the wounds of the heartache
← Caleb has left (Leaving)
+ innit  14:25:59
their*
 ⓘ QST sets +l 51 on #christiandebate
RCastle  14:26:04
innit i agree when we help the defenseless and wounded ones God appreciates that clearly
+ innit  14:26:12
:)
When you act in this way, Ross, you create hope in others
They learn that this world does have kindness and love in it
RCastle  14:26:49
not that im aware of TrollT
+ innit  14:26:57
And when you are gone they will tell others about your actions
And they will spread hope to others
@ Ross  14:27:08
[17:15] <Ross> mat 25:36-40 is about what you the individual IS doing for others ... not what you push off onto your gvt
+ innit  14:27:10
And that is how the kingdom is created
RCastle  14:27:56
!matt 25:40
+ innit  14:27:58
Ross: Love is the most important thing
RCastle  14:28:03
!kjv matt 25:40
BibleBot  14:28:06
Mat25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (KJV)
+ innit  14:28:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1dbfwxCsmg&list=PL84BD6BB243FD099A&index=10&t=0s
@ Ross  14:28:15
and i DO NOT have to accept your the obscene additions that ppl make to what God has said
+ innit  14:28:31
Okay, Ross
RCastle  14:28:40
if the nations follow christs example Ross...where would be the harm?
Christ's
+ innit  14:29:20
!niv 1Cor13:1-3
BibleBot  14:29:21
1Cor13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Cor13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Cor13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. (NIV)
barabbas`  14:29:29
Many of us follow Christ
@ Ross  14:29:35
lol
RCastle  14:29:38
oooh good one innit
+ innit  14:29:41
!niv 1Cor13:4-6
BibleBot  14:29:45
1Cor13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
1Cor13:5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
1Cor13:6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. (NIV)
+ innit  14:30:00
I fall quite short of this standard
It is extremely hard
I did not live up to this standard with sardaukar earlier today
Jesus teaches sardaukar is worthy of being loved
That is very hard for me to do
!niv 1Cor13:7-9
@ Ross  14:30:38
get someting right ---> your gvt taking care of the poor  IS NOT YOU doing for the poor
BibleBot  14:30:39
1Cor13:7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1Cor13:8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
barabbas`  14:30:42
Those who know Christ, know that hour and day is UNKNOWN. We also know from the parable of th ten brides to be ready for his return at a moments notice.
BibleBot  14:30:43
1Cor13:9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, (NIV)
+ innit  14:30:59
!niv 1Cor13:10-12
BibleBot  14:31:00
1Cor13:10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
1Cor13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
1Cor13:12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (NIV)
+ innit  14:31:16
!niv 1Cor13:13
BibleBot  14:31:19
1Cor13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. (NIV)
@ Ross  14:31:41
internet trolls do not change my mind on anything NickServ: The nickname innit is not registered.
+ innit  14:31:50
Christianity at its best is magnificent
→ doomed has joined
 ⓘ Profound gives voice to doomed
RenaissanceMan  14:32:00
Ten VIRGINS! Not ten brides.
Just sayin'.
@ Ross  14:32:12
internet trolls do not change my mind on the things of God
+ innit  14:32:22
Okay, Ross
+ doomed  14:32:34
Hi.
RCastle  14:32:36
:-)
maxxiii  14:32:37
Ross, how do you remain motivated every day to work for God?
+ innit  14:33:09
You gave me hope, You made me whole at the cross You took my place, You showed me grace At the cross, where You died for me
@ Ross  14:33:20
i hadnt worked for 35 years ... send me money then since you are so generous
* Ross is not  here illegally
RenaissanceMan  14:33:44
Because as we all know virgins have to keep their lamps burning in case a bridegroom shows up.
maxxiii  14:33:48
why dont you work Ross, are you lazy?
RenaissanceMan  14:34:03
Oh. Wait a second.
@ Ross  14:34:10
you do not even take care of the poor in your own neigborhood
you do not even take care of the poor in your own neigborhood and you want to bring more poor in for others to care for
maxxiii  14:34:57
Ross, what is your life's purpose?
+ innit  14:35:04
Ross, would you like to listen to a song with me about Christ
@ Ross  14:35:32
no thank you innit
RenaissanceMan  14:36:09
Ross: Tell you what. You go to Guatemala and take care of them there. And let me know how that works out
+ innit  14:36:13
Ross: I have run out of grace for you right now
*  14:36:16
Ignoring Ross
tzip  14:36:19
Ross, SHOULDN'T the givernment be following Jesus' teachings to admit the asylum seekers?
+ innit  14:36:27
So I will separate from you for awhile to regain my calm