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  1. DefiantToday at 7:11 AM
  2. and that is why you end up with the impression that tR is more toxic. It gives the appearence of endorsment
  3. Some may even think since you allow radical things to be said, they are your views
  4.  
  5. FauxToday at 7:12 AM
  6. right, but not censoring our chat has nothing to do with the impression that we go around attacking and raiding other servers
  7. which was the first thing you mentioned when you began to explain why tR is viewed negatively
  8. as i said, there is a massive bias against everything we do and people are unable to view us objectively
  9. simply because we do not censor our chat
  10. and you have to admit that is kind of ridiculous
  11.  
  12. DefiantToday at 7:13 AM
  13. That you think of it as censoring is part of the problem though
  14. Take the MB2 discord. It is not censored, but it is moderated.
  15.  
  16. FauxToday at 7:16 AM
  17. it is censoring. what some people find offensive may not be offensive to other people. imposing your subjective morality upon people is wrong. for example, some guy yesterday was super mad that we allowed the n-word, because he claimed to be black, and said that we were disgusting for allowing hatred and bigotry on our server. after we told him our rules weren't changing, he spent 20 minutes calling us various homosexual slurs and saying we all liked to suck dicks. what is offensive to him from his subjective viewpoint is obviously not consistent with what others might feel, and if you spend your time pandering to subjective interpretations of what is offensive, you will be left with a very limited amount of things you can say without offending some niche party
  18.  
  19. DefiantToday at 7:16 AM
  20. Bullshit.
  21. It is very obvious that there are things that are acceptable and not acceptable in a given environment
  22. It is for tR to decide what kind of environment they want
  23.  
  24. FauxToday at 7:18 AM
  25. the overton's window is constantly shifting, if you set the standard of strict censorship for anything that offends people, you never know when the window will shift and what else will be on the table for censorship
  26. that is an incredibly dangerous standard
  27. freedom of ideas and speech is the most important thing in any society
  28. no matter how large, or how small
  29.  
  30. DefiantToday at 7:19 AM
  31. If you give a platform to racists and biggots you are no better than they
  32.  
  33. FauxToday at 7:20 AM
  34. that's a logical fallacy
  35. and doesn't even address the points i made
  36.  
  37. DefiantToday at 7:21 AM
  38. ok, tR is obviously a forum for deep philosophical discussion, where the free exchange of ideas is cruicial to its functioning. It is not a game server that people may expect a tolerant and friendly environment on
  39.  
  40. FauxToday at 7:22 AM
  41. you would be surprised at the discussions you come across in deathstar or our discord
  42. it's not up for you to determine the validity of what we talk about or its worth
  43. nor is it up to me
  44. imposing your will onto others based on your own subjective interpterion of speech or conversation is very arrogant and very immoral in my opinion
  45.  
  46. DefiantToday at 7:23 AM
  47. And allowing racism, homophobia and anti-semitism a place to foster is very immoral in my opinion
  48.  
  49. FauxToday at 7:24 AM
  50. again, that is a very subjective intreptation
  51. do you understand the concept of perspectivism?
  52.  
  53. DefiantToday at 7:24 AM
  54. ....it's subjective that racism is bad? It's subjective that homophobia is bad? it's subjective that anti-semitism is bad?
  55.  
  56. FauxToday at 7:24 AM
  57. no, that is not what i said
  58. i feel like im talking to a brick wall
  59. did you never take a debate or philosophy course?
  60. these are all very basic concepts
  61. im not trying to be rude
  62. just trying to understand if i should change my language
  63.  
  64. DefiantToday at 7:31 AM
  65. I get the freedom of speach argument i really do, but freedom of speach is not freedom of consequences from that speach. tR is your house, and just like the bricks and mortar around you, it's up to you who is welcome there and for what transgression you would ask someone to leave or otherwise censure. tR isnt going to lose it's toxic image whilst people in the tR house are allowed to spout toxic things without consequence.
  66. You do not need to tell them not to hold any views that you dont welcome in your house, just as long as they know there would be consequnces for expressing them
  67.  
  68. FauxToday at 7:34 AM
  69. i dont agree with that analogy. i dont view it as my house. my house is a private place that a short list of people come to, and only upon an invitation. i view deathstar more as a public commodity. it is public, and it is available for everyone, regardless of who they are, where they are from, or what they think. a small group of players hold power over what happens in that public commodity, and as such i feel we should limit the usage of that power as much as possible, for the reasons of perspectivism and subjective interpretations of speech that i have already mentioned
  70. some people might even consider this view to be more progressive and open minded than censoring people for saying no-no words
  71. since that is what classical liberalism is actually about
  72. we really aren't the evil boogeymen that you all insist we are
  73.  
  74. DefiantToday at 7:36 AM
  75. i have insisted no such thing
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