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Double Fine Game Club: Monkey Island 2 Part 3

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May 18th, 2013
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  1. (06:49:05 AM) Syd: I'm near the end of the game, just got to Dinky Island, so there's not a whole lot left.
  2. (06:49:05 AM) Lattsam: Here early
  3. (06:49:44 AM) udoncat: Hello
  4. (06:49:51 AM) Cheeseness: Hey! You made it! :D
  5. (06:49:52 AM) udoncat: Last bit is creepy though
  6. (06:50:11 AM) udoncat: Hooray! :D
  7. (06:50:33 AM) Cheeseness: I didn't see you on Steam, so I figured you weren't coming
  8. (06:50:36 AM) Syd: Yeah, the ending of MI2 is a bit weird. I hope Ron is properly prepared for the tsunami of questions he's going to get regarding MI2's bizarre finale.
  9. (06:51:55 AM) Babar: hahahah
  10. (06:51:59 AM) Cheeseness: I imagine he'll have to "go to the kitchen for something to drink" until that dies down
  11. (06:52:03 AM) Babar: he's probably answered them a million times
  12. (06:52:13 AM) salty-horse [] entered the room.
  13. (06:52:17 AM) Babar: although Moriarty's point from the Loom one was interesting
  14. (06:52:21 AM) Babar: did anyone ask him about that?
  15. (06:52:26 AM) Babar: with MI1
  16. (06:52:28 AM) GameClubFan_627503 [] entered the room.
  17. (06:52:34 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: I did. He said it wasn't true :D
  18. (06:52:43 AM) Babar: hahahha
  19. (06:52:45 AM) Babar: LIES!
  20. (06:52:48 AM) Babar: WHO TO TRUST
  21. (06:52:58 AM) Babar: sneakery and deceptions
  22. (06:53:03 AM) Syd: Well, Brian could barely remember his own game, soooo....
  23. (06:53:10 AM) Babar: this is also true :D
  24. (06:53:16 AM) salty-horse: Babar, ask him about what? (sorry, just entered)
  25. (06:53:23 AM) Babar: but I'm pretty sure he had left by the time MI2 was in development
  26. (06:53:30 AM) Babar: salty, you played MI2 before, right?
  27. (06:53:43 AM) salty-horse: I will ignore that affront
  28. (06:53:48 AM) Babar: :D
  29. (06:53:49 AM) Syd: MI2's development started immediately after MI1 shipped, so he could have gotten the development of the two games mixed up
  30. (06:53:49 AM) Cheeseness: Alrighty, I just got an email from Ron who sends his apologies (something last minute has come up and he won't be able to make it)
  31. (06:53:58 AM) Babar: waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh
  32. (06:54:01 AM) Cheeseness: (he probably heard that people were going to ask him about the ending :D )
  33. (06:54:05 AM) Cheeseness: Sorry, udoncat ;_;
  34. (06:54:07 AM) Syd: Aww, no Ron
  35. (06:54:17 AM) Babar: so according to Brian Moriarty (relevant as the creator of Loom in LucasArts), Ron had the idea of the ending of MI2 right from the making of MI1
  36. (06:54:23 AM) Syd: So, uh, what do I do about these intros/outros, Cheese? :P
  37. (06:54:25 AM) Cheeseness: Syd: He said that he knew that that wasn't the case because he had no idea how he was going to end Monkey 2 until the end
  38. (06:54:27 AM) Babar: i.e. they were all kids and it was an amusement park
  39. (06:54:36 AM) salty-horse: Babar, wasn't that established already by Ron?
  40. (06:54:38 AM) Cheeseness: Syd: Umm umm, give me two shakes of a lambs tail to see if I can edit them out
  41. (06:54:49 AM) Babar: yeah, I thought so too
  42. (06:54:55 AM) Babar: but who knows
  43. (06:55:00 AM) Babar: I mean, all the signs were there in MI1 :D
  44. (06:55:01 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  45. (06:55:06 AM) Black_Hand [] entered the room.
  46. (06:55:20 AM) salty-horse: Babar, if not the idea of the ending, then the outline of monkey island being ambiguously a story about a child in a carnival
  47. (06:55:25 AM) Lattsam: Yeah
  48. (06:55:46 AM) Babar: well, I mean the whole thing is based off a disney ride
  49. (06:55:48 AM) Babar: but aside from that
  50. (06:55:51 AM) Babar: specifically
  51. (06:55:58 AM) Babar: I always thought it was that
  52. (06:56:03 AM) GameClubFan_644085 [] entered the room.
  53. (06:56:14 AM) Babar: stunted character art style, all the little anachronisms, etc.
  54. (06:56:26 AM) Syd: I made a quick half-assed announcement on the Steam group. Too bad that Ron can't make it.
  55. (06:56:37 AM) Babar: there is a DF steam group? :D
  56. (06:56:41 AM) Lattsam: Aw
  57. (06:56:48 AM) salty-horse: Babar, there's a church of tim one
  58. (06:56:59 AM) Syd: I kind of semi-hijacked a backer Steam group for announcing game club sessions
  59. (06:57:00 AM) Cheeseness: I'll have a hastily edited intro to you in a sec, Syd
  60. (06:57:06 AM) Babar: hahah
  61. (06:57:23 AM) salty-horse:
  62. (06:57:36 AM) happygamer [] entered the room.
  63. (06:58:02 AM) happygamer: arr
  64. (06:58:07 AM) dook [] entered the room.
  65. (06:58:21 AM) happygamer: is the session postponed?
  66. (06:58:31 AM) Babar: no
  67. (06:58:32 AM) Babar: just no Ron
  68. (06:58:38 AM) Babar: also, "Schafer is currently directing a game for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 called Br?tal Legend. " :D
  69. (06:58:38 AM) DuderakeFourkforest [] entered the room.
  70. (06:58:56 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: Nah, we'll go ahead as planned (the point of Game Club is to discuss the game - having Ron is a bonus that we can move on without)
  71. (06:59:01 AM) Syd: Yeah, unfortunately Ron can't make it, but the session will still happen regardless.
  72. (06:59:03 AM) Cheeseness: He did join us for the past two weeks >_<
  73. (06:59:06 AM) sideshowpiet [] entered the room.
  74. (06:59:13 AM) Syd: The stream may start a minute or two late. I gotta get something set up
  75. (06:59:16 AM) Gins: oh
  76. (06:59:17 AM) happygamer: how do you know ron won't make it?
  77. (06:59:28 AM) Gins: too bad no ron today :(
  78. (06:59:29 AM) Syd: He emailed Cheeseness
  79. (06:59:38 AM) happygamer: oh
  80. (06:59:59 AM) dook left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  81. (07:00:05 AM) happygamer: what a bummer
  82. (07:00:19 AM) udoncat: Aw... someone left
  83. (07:00:21 AM) RashoHyo [] entered the room.
  84. (07:00:22 AM) Syd: Yeah, but the show must go on. And speaking of that, the stream will be starting in a moment.
  85. (07:00:28 AM) RashoHyo: hi to everyone
  86. (07:00:35 AM) udoncat: hello
  87. (07:01:02 AM) Smith [] entered the room.
  88. (07:01:16 AM) happygamer: where did you stop last week?
  89. (07:01:36 AM) Smith left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  90. (07:01:44 AM) GameClubFan_428560 [] entered the room.
  91. (07:01:49 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: After Herman's philosophy lesson. Pretty close to the end (should leave lots of time for discussion after we finish :) )
  92. (07:02:03 AM) GameClubFan_428560 is now known as Smith
  93. (07:02:10 AM) GameClubFan_515332 [] entered the room.
  94. (07:02:15 AM) happygamer: did you go through all colors?
  95. (07:02:24 AM) Gins: i think so
  96. (07:02:27 AM) Syd: Yep
  97. (07:02:31 AM) happygamer: nice
  98. (07:02:57 AM) happygamer: so bad I missed last session
  99. (07:03:12 AM) happygamer: and too bad ron's not here to explain the end
  100. (07:03:27 AM) Gins: ron was probably afraid of the Q and A that would inevitably had happened after this probably quite short 3rd part
  101. (07:03:31 AM) happygamer: how long till we start?
  102. (07:03:36 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: There's a chat log and stream archive of the last session (not quite the same as being here, but if you're interested, they're in the first post of the forum thread)
  103. (07:03:38 AM) Ongaku [] entered the room.
  104. (07:03:45 AM) Ongaku: Hi everyone
  105. (07:04:05 AM) Cheeseness: Hi Ongaku
  106. (07:04:07 AM) happygamer: I saw the log
  107. (07:04:11 AM) happygamer: hi
  108. (07:04:17 AM) Gins: hi
  109. (07:04:31 AM) udoncat: hello!
  110. (07:04:38 AM) happygamer: herman toothrot is also in the cave
  111. (07:04:49 AM) happygamer: and also the parrot
  112. (07:04:54 AM) happygamer: and the crackers
  113. (07:04:54 AM) GameClubFan_042008 [] entered the room.
  114. (07:05:01 AM) Gins: in the cave?
  115. (07:05:10 AM) happygamer: the game
  116. (07:05:13 AM) Gins: o
  117. (07:05:15 AM) happygamer: "the cave"
  118. (07:05:19 AM) Gins: ah ok
  119. (07:05:25 AM) Cheeseness: Ron was here for our playthrough of The Cave
  120. (07:05:27 AM) GameClubFan_389949 [] entered the room.
  121. (07:05:27 AM) Gins: how is herman toothrot in the cave? :o
  122. (07:05:42 AM) Syd: Should I try to get Guybrush lost enough that he finds the phone and calls a hint line?
  123. (07:05:43 AM) Cheeseness: I think he said the character in The Cave was inspired by Herman, but not necessrily him
  124. (07:05:48 AM) Cheeseness: Syd: Yeah
  125. (07:05:50 AM) Gins: yea get there
  126. (07:05:53 AM) HadesGigas [] entered the room.
  127. (07:06:06 AM) Gins: who? the hillbilly? or an NPC
  128. (07:06:13 AM) happygamer: npc
  129. (07:06:15 AM) Cheeseness: Syd: I'll try to record a new outro during the session
  130. (07:06:21 AM) happygamer: maybe inspired by
  131. (07:06:26 AM) Cheeseness: Oh. We're live. If anybody can't see the stream, refresh
  132. (07:06:37 AM) happygamer left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  133. (07:06:38 AM) GameClubFan_392279 [] entered the room.
  134. (07:06:44 AM) HadesGigas: echo?
  135. (07:06:48 AM) happygamer [] entered the room.
  136. (07:06:49 AM) Lattsam left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  137. HadesGigas happygamer
  138. (07:06:49 AM) HadesGigas: ok no
  139. (07:06:54 AM) HadesGigas: i just have two open somehow
  140. (07:06:55 AM) happygamer: ok now it's working
  141. (07:06:56 AM) Cheeseness: :D
  142. (07:06:59 AM) Lattsam [] entered the room.
  143. (07:07:17 AM) Lattsam: Hey it's the customer service lady!
  144. (07:07:25 AM) Lattsam: She's a goddess
  145. (07:07:30 AM) Black_Hand left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  146. (07:07:34 AM) happygamer: I think she was designed after a real woman at lucasarts
  147. (07:07:44 AM) GameClubFan_389949: 0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3
  148. (07:07:45 AM) Voodoo_Lord [] entered the room.
  149. (07:07:48 AM) Gins: why is chester female in the SE btw? anyone knows?
  150. (07:07:48 AM) Cheeseness: :D
  151. (07:07:53 AM) Black_Hand [] entered the room.
  152. (07:08:00 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: Chester wasn't a male in the original?
  153. (07:08:05 AM) GameClubFan_644085 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  154. (07:08:11 AM) Voodoo_Lord: Hello everyone!
  155. (07:08:13 AM) happygamer: i remember male version in se
  156. (07:08:21 AM) Cheeseness: Hi Voodoo_Lord
  157. (07:08:25 AM) Gins: i always thought chester is a guy's name
  158. (07:08:30 AM) GameClubFan_389949 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  159. (07:08:33 AM) Syd: That was the joke
  160. (07:08:38 AM) happygamer: it's probably both male female name
  161. (07:08:50 AM) Syd: Now lets see if I can find this dinosaur
  162. (07:08:50 AM) Voodoo_Lord: oh is Ron here yet?
  163. (07:08:58 AM) udoncat left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  164. (07:09:00 AM) happygamer: no he can't make it
  165. (07:09:01 AM) Syd: Ron wont make it this session, unfortunately
  166. (07:09:04 AM) happygamer: unfortunately
  167. (07:09:08 AM) Voodoo_Lord: aww
  168. (07:09:10 AM) GameClubFan_392279 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  169. (07:09:19 AM) udoncat [] entered the room.
  170. (07:09:19 AM) HadesGigas: they are different characters depending on the graphics you're using. i think one of the behind the scenes things explained why
  171. (07:09:23 AM) happygamer: what if we cut this session in 2 parts and do another next week?
  172. (07:09:39 AM) Gins: haha
  173. (07:09:43 AM) Gins: ron will hate this :p
  174. (07:09:45 AM) Lattsam: lol
  175. (07:09:53 AM) Syd: Might have to if I keep being lost in this jungle, lol
  176. (07:09:54 AM) GameClubFan_042008 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  177. (07:09:56 AM) happygamer: until he shows up
  178. (07:09:58 AM) Gins: he thought he can weasel out of getting asked questions
  179. (07:10:15 AM) Black_Hand left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  180. (07:10:20 AM) happygamer: we just say syd got lost in that jungle for 1.5 hours
  181. (07:10:48 AM) Gins: :P
  182. (07:10:50 AM) Voodoo_Lord: We could have used the colors riddle as an excuse, pity it has already been done
  183. (07:10:54 AM) Gins: he'll want proof though
  184. (07:11:14 AM) happygamer: for some reason I didn't like those forest puzzles
  185. (07:11:17 AM) happygamer: too random
  186. (07:11:18 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  187. (07:11:35 AM) Gins: what do you mean, happygamer?
  188. (07:11:47 AM) happygamer: why is there a tunnel under an island?
  189. (07:11:52 AM) GameClubFan_331013 [] entered the room.
  190. (07:12:00 AM) happygamer: why is there cement?
  191. (07:12:05 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: we just have to figure it out
  192. (07:12:05 AM) Gins: (monkey island is a themepark)
  193. (07:12:07 AM) Voodoo_Lord: you could say it is a... secret
  194. (07:12:19 AM) RashoHyo left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  195. (07:12:33 AM) happygamer: but lechuck couldn't have put a spelll on guybrush yet
  196. (07:12:34 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: that posh accent is really annoying
  197. (07:12:37 AM) happygamer: he hasn't met him
  198. (07:12:44 AM) happygamer: indy
  199. (07:13:08 AM) Voodoo_Lord: the SE on Monkey 2 is full of posh english accents
  200. (07:13:09 AM) Cheeseness: I love the bookending here. It felt like this was the end of the game when I first played it
  201. (07:13:14 AM) happygamer: i don't understand it
  202. (07:13:17 AM) Voodoo_Lord: maybe the director had a fetish for them or something
  203. (07:13:18 AM) udoncat: 3 days?
  204. (07:13:32 AM) happygamer: what a coincidence, the rope cuts when he just finished the story
  205. (07:13:39 AM) Gins: :P
  206. (07:13:44 AM) Gins: comedic timing
  207. (07:13:54 AM) happygamer: i know
  208. (07:13:55 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo_Lord: This Elaine was first used in Monkey 3 IIRC. I don't think her casting in the SE should really be considered in that respect :b
  209. (07:13:55 AM) Voodoo_Lord: happygamer is actually grumpier than grumpygamer :P
  210. (07:13:57 AM) happygamer: just kidding
  211. (07:14:03 AM) Cheeseness: heh
  212. (07:14:23 AM) GameClubFan_515109 [] entered the room.
  213. (07:14:34 AM) happygamer: we are bound to one another
  214. (07:14:37 AM) happygamer: not so fast syd!
  215. (07:14:39 AM) Voodoo_Lord: Elaine is the exception in this case I guess (though I don't remember her accent being that noticeable)
  216. (07:14:52 AM) Voodoo_Lord: but I was referring to all the rest, Kate and such
  217. (07:15:04 AM) happygamer: ron said in some why they are brothers in some sense they are not?
  218. (07:15:09 AM) happygamer: what did he mean?
  219. (07:15:33 AM) Cheeseness: Kate's English in this? I thought she was North American (I guess I didn't pay enough attention last session >_<
  220. (07:15:33 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: she should talk like a pirate, this isn't a downton abbey game
  221. (07:15:33 AM) Voodoo_Lord: the final part of MI2 is puzzling on purpose
  222. (07:15:36 AM) Voodoo_Lord: nobody really knows
  223. (07:15:46 AM) happygamer: what if the story is about 2 brothers playing a video game
  224. (07:15:50 AM) Cheeseness: These animations are pretty creepy
  225. (07:15:53 AM) Voodoo_Lord: I think it's fine for Elaine, being a governor and such
  226. (07:15:55 AM) Smith: Lechuck sounds like movie trailer voice guy
  227. (07:15:57 AM) Voodoo_Lord: but not for the rest
  228. (07:16:14 AM) Lattsam: This is getting epic
  229. (07:16:19 AM) Voodoo_Lord: THIS SUMMER... YOU'LL GO IN A DIMENSION OF PAIN...
  230. (07:16:21 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  231. (07:16:42 AM) Voodoo_Lord: It's really amazing how this part was both comical and actually scary
  232. (07:16:45 AM) happygamer: I got it! The secret is that two brothers are playing some WoW kind of game and lechuck and guybrush are just their avatars
  233. (07:16:50 AM) Voodoo_Lord: even if there weren't really stakes for the player
  234. (07:17:24 AM) GameClubFan_515332 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  235. (07:17:31 AM) Cheeseness: I like that you get this feeling that the game's over, and then there's a huge twist with a setting change that has a fairly decent number of rooms to wander through and explore
  236. (07:17:47 AM) happygamer: yeah that's so great about it
  237. (07:17:54 AM) Cheeseness: It's a little frustrating, but it's hard to feel like you're stuck with so much to check out
  238. (07:18:09 AM) Cheeseness: Reusing the voodoo recipe from the beginning of the game is awesome as well
  239. (07:18:19 AM) Gins: yes
  240. (07:18:19 AM) happygamer: whose parents are those?
  241. (07:18:21 AM) Gins: also
  242. (07:18:29 AM) Syd: LeChuck won't leave me alone. :P
  243. (07:18:31 AM) udoncat: And the creepy LeChuck music
  244. (07:18:33 AM) Gins: previously, while telling the story, it was always clear guybrush would make it out alive
  245. (07:18:38 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: lechuck's parents
  246. (07:18:41 AM) Gins: but now, guybrush is on his own
  247. (07:18:49 AM) Gins: and his future uncertain
  248. (07:18:56 AM) happygamer: so lechuck lost his parents and turned evil
  249. (07:19:07 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: or he killed them
  250. (07:19:08 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: That too
  251. (07:19:19 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: It's difficult to take everything that's happening here at face value
  252. (07:19:22 AM) japro: does lechuck actually walk around here or is he "teleporting"?
  253. (07:19:33 AM) happygamer: le chuck walks
  254. (07:19:43 AM) Gins: yea i think you can catch up to him...
  255. (07:19:51 AM) Cheeseness: Yep, and I think you can leave the room and he'll chase you?
  256. (07:19:56 AM) happygamer: they programmed it so he appears randomly between 15 seconds and 2 minutes i think
  257. (07:20:15 AM) udoncat: RUN!
  258. (07:20:28 AM) udoncat: FLEE!
  259. (07:20:36 AM) Voodoo__Lord [] entered the room.
  260. (07:20:37 AM) happygamer: or 5 seconds
  261. (07:20:43 AM) Voodoo__Lord: crappy connection ahoy!
  262. (07:21:01 AM) happygamer: that's the broken grog machine from mi1
  263. (07:21:05 AM) MarioColbert [] entered the room.
  264. (07:21:08 AM) Voodoo__Lord: anyway, I was saying how unexpectedly creepy a game like MI2 could get
  265. (07:21:10 AM) Lattsam: brings back memories
  266. (07:21:18 AM) Lattsam: kids don't try this at home
  267. (07:21:22 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  268. (07:21:30 AM) Voodoo__Lord: oh no they should
  269. (07:21:30 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: throw the root beer at lechuck
  270. (07:21:34 AM) Voodoo__Lord: especially with their father
  271. (07:21:52 AM) Gins: yea the root beer :3
  272. (07:21:54 AM) Voodoo__Lord: ^yeah use the rootbeer!
  273. (07:22:32 AM) Voodoo_Lord left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  274. (07:22:36 AM) happygamer: if it's not a theme park and it's the real caribean, what is it?
  275. (07:22:43 AM) Lattsam: fail
  276. (07:22:44 AM) Voodoo__Lord: oh my doppleganger left
  277. (07:22:55 AM) Gins: how do you know it's not a theme park?
  278. (07:22:57 AM) MarioColbert: did you fill up the glove
  279. (07:23:00 AM) MarioColbert: with helium?
  280. (07:23:02 AM) MarioColbert: nice
  281. (07:23:03 AM) MarioColbert: you did
  282. (07:23:04 AM) MarioColbert: :)
  283. (07:23:12 AM) Cheeseness: Breathe the helium, Syd!
  284. (07:23:27 AM) Cheeseness: heh
  285. (07:23:30 AM) udoncat: Aw cute!
  286. (07:23:31 AM) Lattsam: lol :D
  287. (07:23:35 AM) happygamer: what does guybrush say if you look at the skull?
  288. (07:23:50 AM) happygamer: look at the skull please syd
  289. (07:24:13 AM) happygamer: thanks
  290. (07:24:13 AM) Voodoo__Lord: He knew him well
  291. (07:24:16 AM) Lattsam: I knew him, Horatio
  292. (07:24:19 AM) happygamer: so he calls him dad
  293. (07:24:29 AM) happygamer: that was my favorite part
  294. (07:24:34 AM) Lattsam: Well, I recognize this place
  295. (07:24:41 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: guybrush could be adopted
  296. (07:24:54 AM) udoncat: How does he know that skull is dad to call him dad?
  297. (07:24:57 AM) japro: see all you have to do to stop pirates is put up a small barrier
  298. (07:25:05 AM) happygamer: that sounds to fit, he is adopted
  299. (07:25:18 AM) japro: udoncat, he remembers the skeleton from his hallucination earlier? :D
  300. (07:25:30 AM) udoncat: Ah that's right
  301. (07:25:37 AM) udoncat: With the cool dance
  302. (07:25:42 AM) Voodoo__Lord: In the hintbook there was a draw of a treasure room next to these tunnel
  303. (07:25:48 AM) Voodoo__Lord: presumably the true Big Whoop?
  304. (07:25:56 AM) Lattsam: ew
  305. (07:26:00 AM) Voodoo__Lord: don't know if Ron had any inolvement with that
  306. (07:26:15 AM) happygamer: big whoop means big nothing as far as i understand it
  307. (07:26:23 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  308. (07:26:31 AM) Voodoo__Lord: that was the joke
  309. (07:27:12 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: I always thought it was implied the chest that Guybrush was hanging with was the treasure
  310. (07:27:14 AM) happygamer: they are role playing
  311. (07:27:27 AM) happygamer: wasn't the eticket in htere?
  312. (07:27:29 AM) Cheeseness: (which at this point contains two tickets to the carnival)
  313. (07:27:30 AM) Smith: its all fun and games until somebody loses a leg
  314. (07:27:35 AM) happygamer: lol
  315. (07:27:39 AM) happygamer: the dog?
  316. (07:27:39 AM) Cheeseness: (I think it was two)
  317. (07:27:44 AM) happygamer: where is he from?
  318. (07:27:44 AM) GameClubFan_798204 [] entered the room.
  319. (07:27:49 AM) Cheeseness: Oh, Syd. I bet you've been saving that one up since we started :D
  320. (07:28:02 AM) happygamer: where do i know the dog from?
  321. (07:28:09 AM) Cheeseness: Walt?
  322. (07:28:10 AM) udoncat: The jail?
  323. (07:28:13 AM) Cheeseness: He's in the jail
  324. (07:28:14 AM) happygamer: right
  325. (07:28:16 AM) happygamer: the jail
  326. (07:28:23 AM) Cheeseness: Isn't he also pretty much copied verbatim from the ride?
  327. (07:28:30 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Cheeseness: whether Big Whoop was the tickets or not is a matter of speculation, I was just reporting :P
  328. (07:28:39 AM) GameClubFan_798204 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  329. (07:28:39 AM) Cheeseness: ^_^
  330. (07:28:42 AM) Voodoo__Lord: we could be here all night speculating about what is the final part of MI2
  331. (07:28:44 AM) happygamer: scooby doo moment
  332. (07:29:13 AM) Voodoo__Lord: he looks really young
  333. (07:29:17 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: The crest could still have contained the treasure, but what looked to be tickets might not have been (it's pretty clear that with this section of the game, not is all as it appears)
  334. (07:29:19 AM) Smith: This is my favourite part of the pirates of the caribbean ride
  335. (07:29:26 AM) Lattsam: WAHT A TWIST
  336. (07:29:27 AM) Cheeseness: They've got such different accents :D
  337. (07:29:33 AM) Cheeseness: Ha, Smith :D
  338. (07:29:41 AM) happygamer: i don't get it
  339. (07:29:51 AM) Voodoo__Lord: nah there was no treasure in the chest, that was visible
  340. (07:29:53 AM) Voodoo__Lord: and here we are
  341. (07:30:02 AM) happygamer: screeming weenies!
  342. (07:30:04 AM) happygamer: again
  343. (07:30:06 AM) happygamer: weenies
  344. (07:30:14 AM) happygamer: and on the right there is a big one
  345. (07:30:19 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: That's only if what's seen to be in the chest at this part of the game is what's really in there
  346. (07:30:32 AM) happygamer: murdures like lechuck!
  347. (07:30:37 AM) Voodoo__Lord: see? That's what I meant, we could be here all night :P
  348. (07:30:46 AM) Voodoo__Lord: and I'm kinda tired
  349. (07:30:56 AM) happygamer: the end is evil
  350. (07:31:10 AM) Lattsam: Yay we won
  351. (07:31:11 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: Ha, sorry. It seemed like you were refuting the possibility ^_^
  352. (07:31:13 AM) happygamer: it's all in the weenie back there
  353. (07:31:25 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  354. (07:31:33 AM) Cheeseness: So, what a game. How many people played this game for the first time after the special edition came out?
  355. (07:31:35 AM) yama: Haha. This is such a weird ending for a game.
  356. (07:31:48 AM) Voodoo__Lord: well I am actually, I just don't feel like discussing the whole thing
  357. (07:31:52 AM) japro: in wondering what stan is selling on the right in this screen
  358. (07:31:52 AM) happygamer: I hope lechuck didn't put a SPELL on him
  359. (07:31:57 AM) Voodoo__Lord: I've done that for years on MI forums
  360. (07:32:17 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: I don't think there's enough solid information around to be able to refute anybody's speculation ^_^
  361. (07:32:32 AM) Voodoo__Lord: this is actually a pretty nice ending considering it's all so confusing when you think about it
  362. (07:32:56 AM) Cheeseness: Yeah, it's great. I wasn't really expecting a third game till it came out
  363. (07:33:04 AM) Voodoo__Lord: fair enough I guess, it just seemed farfetched <_<
  364. (07:33:11 AM) yama: The ending sure makes me wonder what I just played. ^^:
  365. (07:33:14 AM) happygamer: what a shame we'll never know
  366. (07:33:21 AM) Voodoo__Lord: or will we?
  367. (07:33:22 AM) Lattsam: M. Night Shyamalan would be proud
  368. (07:33:23 AM) udoncat: Then this bit?!
  369. (07:33:36 AM) Smith: I had nightmares that a third monkey island would be a doom clone
  370. (07:33:38 AM) yama: Yeah. How does the Elaine bit fit in? ^^:
  371. (07:33:45 AM) Cheeseness: udoncat: Right. It's all meant to make you question the ending :D
  372. (07:33:45 AM) happygamer: it's not all a dream that's clear from the last scene
  373. (07:33:48 AM) Voodoo__Lord: that's...
  374. (07:33:51 AM) Voodoo__Lord: (wait for it)
  375. (07:33:52 AM) Smith: ... but that was the 90s
  376. (07:33:54 AM) Voodoo__Lord: ...a SECRET
  377. (07:34:07 AM) udoncat: Confusing then... confusing still now
  378. (07:34:13 AM) udoncat: But all round still cool
  379. (07:34:28 AM) Cheeseness: I love this music :D
  380. (07:34:39 AM) udoncat: Same :D
  381. (07:34:50 AM) Gins: me too
  382. (07:34:55 AM) Voodoo__Lord: yep me too
  383. (07:35:13 AM) Gins: it makes me want to go sit at a camp fire
  384. (07:35:14 AM) yama: Cooking dinner sounds good. I'm starving.
  385. (07:35:15 AM) Cheeseness: udoncat: I agree with that. I'm comfortable with the confusingness though. I don't recall anybody I knew being frustrated with the game when it came out. I'd guess that maybe most of that arose with the way that it was explained in Curse
  386. (07:35:18 AM) Voodoo__Lord: the music of the games' start are very nice
  387. (07:35:20 AM) Gins: and roast marshmallows.
  388. (07:35:27 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: It makes me want to teach basket weaving to clams
  389. (07:35:32 AM) happygamer: and grow a beard
  390. (07:35:40 AM) Gins: i already have a beard
  391. (07:35:50 AM) Oughtobe [] entered the room.
  392. (07:35:56 AM) Oughtobe: How late am I?
  393. (07:35:58 AM) Gins: so i want a campfire
  394. (07:36:00 AM) Oughtobe: When did it start?
  395. (07:36:01 AM) Cheeseness: I remember thinking that all of these ideas were way funnier than they are :D
  396. (07:36:03 AM) happygamer: it's over
  397. (07:36:05 AM) Voodoo__Lord: not too late mate
  398. (07:36:08 AM) Voodoo__Lord: you're just at the end
  399. (07:36:09 AM) Voodoo__Lord: :P
  400. (07:36:13 AM) happygamer: ron was here and explained everything
  401. (07:36:17 AM) Oughtobe: Is grumpy gamer here?
  402. (07:36:18 AM) Oughtobe: =(
  403. (07:36:20 AM) happygamer: you should have been here
  404. (07:36:20 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: We started about an hour ago. We'll keep discussing the game for a while though :)
  405. (07:36:22 AM) Voodoo__Lord: yeah he told us EVERYTHING
  406. (07:36:25 AM) Gins: he already left
  407. (07:36:26 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  408. (07:36:26 AM) Voodoo__Lord: you should have been here
  409. (07:36:31 AM) Gins: he told us the secret, and then left
  410. (07:36:34 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: Nah, I got an email from him before the session started saying he couldn't make it
  411. (07:36:35 AM) Oughtobe: =(
  412. (07:36:37 AM) Cheeseness: Guys, please
  413. (07:36:38 AM) happygamer: i never have thought of the secret myself
  414. (07:36:44 AM) MarioColbert left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  415. (07:36:45 AM) Oughtobe: meanies
  416. (07:36:49 AM) happygamer: sorry
  417. (07:36:50 AM) Oughtobe: thanks cheeseness
  418. (07:37:00 AM) Cheeseness: Also, Ron's told us on four separate occasions that the secret is that Guybrush is a banana :D
  419. (07:37:02 AM) Lattsam: I think the next session should be Sam and Max - Situation: Comedy
  420. (07:37:02 AM) happygamer: we're probably too frustrated by not knowing it
  421. (07:37:04 AM) Voodoo__Lord: sorry I confused Grumpygamer with happygamer the whole timee
  422. (07:37:26 AM) udoncat: Being a banana isn't too bad
  423. (07:37:29 AM) Voodoo__Lord: hey I was wondering
  424. (07:37:31 AM) Lattsam: And Steve Purcell should be a guest
  425. (07:37:34 AM) Cheeseness: Lattsam: Hop into the planning thread if you want. We're already set up to go with the Blendo stuff, but there's always future ones
  426. (07:37:41 AM) happygamer: grumpy <> happy
  427. (07:37:45 AM) Lattsam: Ok
  428. (07:37:45 AM) Voodoo__Lord: if it could be possible to do a session on Commander Keen?
  429. (07:37:45 AM) Cheeseness: Lattsam: I've been trying to get in touch with Steve, but haven't had much luck, sadly
  430. (07:37:52 AM) Syd: Meanwhile, Ron is sighing with relief since he wasn't bombarded with questions today, lol
  431. (07:37:52 AM) Voodoo__Lord: and maybe inviting Tom to joing us?
  432. (07:37:57 AM) happygamer: what about monkey island 1?
  433. (07:38:02 AM) happygamer: and then mi2?
  434. (07:38:24 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: I think we can probably do anything. The planning thread is probably the best place to work stuff like that out (I'd say that we'd have to approach Keen a bit differently to how we've done games so far)
  435. (07:38:27 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: We did :b
  436. (07:38:44 AM) happygamer: sad it's over
  437. (07:38:57 AM) Oughtobe: Cheeseness will the last log be edited soon?
  438. (07:39:07 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: If you're keen, there are chat logs from the previous sessions which Ron attended which are already up
  439. (07:39:09 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Yeah I know about the thread, I will post it there too :P
  440. (07:39:10 AM) Oughtobe: the second monkey island 2
  441. (07:39:11 AM) Syd: Yeah, we've done the first two Monkey Islands now. We're hoping to get around to Curse someday (and maybe get Dominic Armato to join as as well!)
  442. (07:39:24 AM) udoncat: Yay!
  443. (07:39:26 AM) Voodoo__Lord: oh that would be awesome
  444. (07:39:29 AM) salty-horse: Syd, he's been with us all along
  445. (07:39:33 AM) Voodoo__Lord: or maybe Ahern?
  446. (07:39:34 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: I'd like to see some more discussion of the game. I'll post a log when the session is properly "over" :)
  447. (07:39:41 AM) Cheeseness: salty-horse: She
  448. (07:39:51 AM) Oughtobe: no I mean the previous log
  449. (07:39:52 AM) salty-horse: Cheeseness, Armato
  450. (07:39:52 AM) happygamer: I thought mi2 had the perfect length
  451. (07:39:54 AM) Oughtobe: the first one was edited
  452. (07:39:58 AM) Cheeseness: Oh, right. Sorry :D
  453. (07:39:59 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: we could buy 5 million copies of scurvy scallywags and play monkey island 3a
  454. (07:40:01 AM) happygamer: not a big fan of those short games nowadays
  455. (07:40:03 AM) Oughtobe: the second one doesn't have an edited link
  456. (07:40:09 AM) sideshowpiet left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  457. (07:40:18 AM) Oughtobe: Cheeseness: will it be edited soon?
  458. (07:40:18 AM) Syd: And I forgot to bump the thread. Aren't I great?
  459. (07:40:29 AM) happygamer: 5.000.000 / 35 = 142.000 dollars
  460. (07:40:31 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: jfrisby edited the first one. I don't really have time to trim them down myself :(
  461. (07:40:32 AM) happygamer: each
  462. (07:40:37 AM) Cheeseness: Syd, you're the best <32
  463. (07:41:09 AM) Flacote [] entered the room.
  464. (07:41:10 AM) happygamer: maybe in mi3a you play as elaine
  465. (07:41:13 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Let's the discussion start: I think the secret of Monkey Island is that Guybrush is a banana kid who fantasized about pirates during a tour in a theme park
  466. (07:41:18 AM) happygamer: and you have to rescue guybrush
  467. (07:41:28 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  468. (07:41:33 AM) Syd: I'll just stick with "Guybrush is a banana"
  469. (07:41:42 AM) GameClubFan_331013 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  470. (07:41:44 AM) happygamer: hmm, guybrush is a banana
  471. (07:41:58 AM) GameClubFan_627503 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  472. (07:41:58 AM) Syd: I mean, Ron said it, so it must be true
  473. (07:42:05 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: what does it mean when he feeds the monkey in monkey island?
  474. (07:42:06 AM) Gins: In monkey island 2, a lot of things point towards the world of Monkey Island being an artificially constructed world
  475. (07:42:06 AM) Cheeseness: Back on the topic of the game itself, it's interesting that I never felt that insult swordfighting (or some similar less deterministic gameplay element) was "missing"
  476. (07:42:13 AM) Voodoo__Lord: I guess :(
  477. (07:42:27 AM) Cheeseness: It's the only LucasArts one to not have some form of insult something-or-another
  478. (07:42:30 AM) Lattsam: The game was already big enough as it is
  479. (07:42:33 AM) happygamer: I think guybrush is role playing all this with his friends and step brother
  480. (07:42:42 AM) Gins: for one, there's all those out-of-place maintenance tunnels and rooms
  481. (07:42:49 AM) Gins: and also the ability to TURN OFF a waterfall
  482. (07:42:51 AM) Syd: There seems to be plenty of evidence towards the whole theme park/artificial world thing/kid's imagination thing, but then that scene with Elaine throws a big monkey wrench (lol) into that theory.
  483. (07:42:51 AM) happygamer: he lost his parents when he was young
  484. (07:43:06 AM) Lattsam: Speaking of, there's a monkey wrench involved
  485. (07:43:08 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: There's also the "play along, Guybrush" and "it's how everybody talked back then" lines from MI1
  486. (07:43:14 AM) Gins: yeah
  487. (07:43:15 AM) happygamer: and the fact that ron said it's not all a kids dream
  488. (07:43:20 AM) Voodoo__Lord: yeah
  489. (07:43:22 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: there was the same tunnel in phat island and walt in the end
  490. (07:43:27 AM) Voodoo__Lord: also there are a lot of bananas
  491. (07:43:39 AM) Voodoo__Lord: so I'll stick with my "banana kid fantasy"
  492. (07:43:40 AM) happygamer: walt is gyubrushes dog in real life
  493. (07:43:47 AM) Gins: i threw in this theory in the first episode, that the world of monkey island is a "truman-show"-esque huge themepark, which was built generations ago
  494. (07:43:55 AM) Gins: and people now live in it as if it was a real world
  495. (07:44:11 AM) Voodoo__Lord: that's a little too sci-fiesque for MI
  496. (07:44:12 AM) Syd: Besides, if the ending of MI2 was to be taken at face value (Guybrush is a kid in an amusement park) then what would MI3a be about? A kid wandering around an amusement park doesn't seem like much of a Monkey Island game
  497. (07:44:32 AM) happygamer: monkey island 3: The car ride home
  498. (07:44:39 AM) Gins: Voodoo__Lord: do we even know what "genre" Monkey Island really is?
  499. (07:44:41 AM) Voodoo__Lord: he would probably return to "normal" in some way
  500. (07:44:43 AM) Voodoo__Lord: like in Curse
  501. (07:44:53 AM) Voodoo__Lord: yeah, Adventure
  502. (07:44:56 AM) Gins: i don't think it's possible to say that it's "too sci-fi"
  503. (07:44:59 AM) Syd: Ron did say that MI3a might just fit in between MI2 and Curse quite nicely
  504. (07:45:00 AM) Voodoo__Lord: if we talk narrative genres
  505. (07:45:05 AM) Cheeseness: Syd: It'd definitely make for an *interesting* Monkey Island game (especially if it were about trying to get back into the fantasy and leave the "real" world behind). I doubt that a Ron MI3 would take that direction though
  506. (07:45:22 AM) Flacote left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  507. (07:45:30 AM) Gins: i'm talking narrative. not video game genre
  508. (07:45:32 AM) Oughtobe: Cheeseness: I'll try to edit it down, who can I email it to?
  509. (07:45:32 AM) happygamer: gins you read on strangers tides didn't you?
  510. (07:45:35 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Gins: make it "too dystopic" or something
  511. (07:45:37 AM) Gins: yes i did
  512. (07:45:43 AM) Oughtobe: I think the secret is that there was no secret
  513. (07:45:48 AM) Gins: idk what's wrong with "too dystopic" or anything
  514. (07:45:49 AM) happygamer: nothing similar going on in there?
  515. (07:45:59 AM) Oughtobe: it was all a marketing gimick of the Monkey Island Theme park
  516. (07:46:00 AM) Gins: the whole ending of MI2 doesn't fit with what we'd expect from a typical pirate adventure
  517. (07:46:02 AM) happygamer: what happens in the end of the book?
  518. (07:46:09 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: You can shoot it to me if you want. :)
  519. (07:46:18 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Gins: MI may be a serious story at it's core, but it's far from being this dark
  520. (07:46:18 AM) Gins: shandy kills blackbeard and gets married to his love interest
  521. (07:46:25 AM) Cheeseness: I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a secret
  522. (07:46:28 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  523. (07:46:30 AM) yama: All right, I really need to eat. Thanks for the stream, Syd. I'll check the log when I get back. See you all next week (or before that if you stick around here). :)
  524. (07:46:38 AM) Cheeseness: Thanks for coming, yama :D
  525. (07:46:46 AM) Voodoo__Lord: see ya!
  526. (07:46:56 AM) happygamer: so nothing like mi
  527. (07:46:59 AM) Syd: Bye yama
  528. (07:46:59 AM) Gins: nope
  529. (07:47:08 AM) Gins: i think the only inspiration are the use of voodoo
  530. (07:47:12 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Ron said there was though
  531. (07:47:15 AM) Gins: and that blackbeard = leChuck
  532. (07:47:18 AM) Oughtobe: In the third one he was going to make an elaborate adventure about their really being a secret
  533. (07:47:22 AM) Cheeseness: I'm still hoping for a spinoff series of games about the bird in LeChuck's hat
  534. (07:47:32 AM) happygamer: ron said there is a secret
  535. (07:47:37 AM) Cheeseness: Of course he did >_<
  536. (07:47:38 AM) Voodoo__Lord: LeCrow
  537. (07:47:45 AM) happygamer: and if you look closley grashopper, you'll see it
  538. (07:47:46 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: grumpy birds
  539. (07:47:52 AM) Cheeseness: It doesn't look to be a swan otherwise we could retrofit Loom in there :D
  540. (07:47:54 AM) Syd: Ron has said that the ending of MI2 ties into the Secret™, but not in the way most people suspect.
  541. (07:47:54 AM) Gins: one of the big plot elements of Stranger Tides is that someone wants to get a person back to live with voodoo
  542. (07:47:54 AM) GameClubFan_515109 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  543. (07:47:55 AM) Oughtobe: and then you find out, Walt Disney, or a spoof of Walt Disney, created the myth of the secret to give the island a lore
  544. (07:47:59 AM) Gins: and blackbeard helps him with that
  545. (07:48:31 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Cheeseness: so are you implying Ron made it up along the way or something? :P
  546. (07:48:46 AM) Oughtobe: I think so, kind of like LOST
  547. (07:48:52 AM) happygamer: so blackbird is good?
  548. (07:49:03 AM) happygamer: has anyone watched lost?
  549. (07:49:05 AM) Oughtobe: at the end of 3, the secret would be kept secret
  550. (07:49:11 AM) Cheeseness: I'm implying that as a storyteller, it's in his best interests to maintain that there's something there even if it happens that there's not (it's more compelling with the mystery, and it'd most likely detract from the game if it were explained)
  551. (07:49:13 AM) Voodoo__Lord: I didn't watch till the end
  552. (07:49:20 AM) Oughtobe: because what good is a secret, if its told
  553. (07:49:22 AM) Voodoo__Lord: fortunately, because apparently I didn't waste my time
  554. (07:49:26 AM) Cheeseness: Right
  555. (07:49:58 AM) Voodoo__Lord: an untold secret is frustrating though
  556. (07:50:08 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Cheeseness: are you callin Ron a LIAR?!
  557. (07:50:13 AM) Oughtobe: So in 3, you would be left with maybe there is a secret, maybe there isn't, it makes it so he can keep it going forever
  558. (07:50:16 AM) Voodoo__Lord: (no I actually kinda of agree with you)
  559. (07:50:17 AM) Gins: it is frustrating indeed
  560. (07:50:20 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: I'm calling him a storyteller :D
  561. (07:50:28 AM) Voodoo__Lord: my take is that he's actually reworking on the secret
  562. (07:50:31 AM) Oughtobe: Its an awesome idea
  563. (07:50:32 AM) Gins: idk if it's built up in a trilogy, then the secret better be told in the final game
  564. (07:50:36 AM) Voodoo__Lord: the secret of today is not the same of those years
  565. (07:50:40 AM) Oughtobe: Lost did it retarded by trying to explain the mystery
  566. (07:51:00 AM) happygamer: making up a secret is easy, resolving it in a logic and satisfactory manner in a 3rd mi shows if you are a good storyteller
  567. (07:51:08 AM) Gins: indeed
  568. (07:51:17 AM) Gins: this is why i'm so excited to play such a game if it was made
  569. (07:51:18 AM) Cheeseness: In MI3a, guybrush must sacrifice himself in the real world to become "the secret" and be the character that inspires us all to love the subsequent Monkey Island games
  570. (07:51:19 AM) Cheeseness: There we go
  571. (07:51:23 AM) Gins: even if the secret itself was disappointing
  572. (07:51:28 AM) Voodoo__Lord: from what I gathered, the problem with Lost wasn't that it tried to explain things
  573. (07:51:31 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  574. (07:51:37 AM) Gins: i want to know how ron ties up the loose ends
  575. (07:51:38 AM) Oughtobe: making a game that is engaging and funny and makes you wonder what the secret is NOT EASY
  576. (07:51:41 AM) Oughtobe: thats the whole part
  577. (07:51:42 AM) happygamer: has anyone seen "the prestige"
  578. (07:51:42 AM) Voodoo__Lord: it's that it didn't know where to go till the final season
  579. (07:51:43 AM) Oughtobe: point
  580. (07:51:52 AM) Oughtobe: the prestige is stupid
  581. (07:52:00 AM) Gins: the prestige was great
  582. (07:52:05 AM) Flacote [] entered the room.
  583. (07:52:06 AM) Gins: what's stupid about it?
  584. (07:52:07 AM) Oughtobe: the ending was stupid
  585. (07:52:08 AM) happygamer: i thought they explained everything nicely in the end
  586. (07:52:17 AM) Oughtobe: One of the brothers shouldn't have died
  587. (07:52:20 AM) happygamer: and you could have guessed it
  588. (07:52:25 AM) happygamer: but it wasn't too obvious
  589. (07:52:33 AM) Oughtobe: and the magician who killed himself right after he cloned himself was retarded
  590. (07:52:36 AM) Oughtobe: nobody would do that
  591. (07:52:44 AM) Gins: ehhh
  592. (07:52:48 AM) Oughtobe: they would be amazed and be like, now we can beat the other magician
  593. (07:52:55 AM) Oughtobe: we can make 100 of us, and he only has two of him
  594. (07:52:57 AM) Gins: i thought that made the story really interesting
  595. (07:52:58 AM) Voodoo__Lord: to be honest, not revealing the secret would seem like a "easy way out" at this point
  596. (07:53:04 AM) Voodoo__Lord: unless it's done in a very good way
  597. (07:53:10 AM) Voodoo__Lord: but VERY good
  598. (07:53:13 AM) Gins: in prestige, the "life" only continued for the one who's point of view it was
  599. (07:53:15 AM) Arthur_D left the room (quit: Ping timeout).
  600. (07:53:16 AM) happygamer: that's what i mean
  601. (07:53:22 AM) Oughtobe: revealing that the secret can't be revealed is genius
  602. (07:53:25 AM) Gins: each of the two thought that the "real" guy was himself
  603. (07:53:28 AM) Oughtobe: the whole point of the game is to laugh and have fun
  604. (07:53:32 AM) Voodoo__Lord: no it's not <_<
  605. (07:53:32 AM) happygamer: it can be revealed in genius
  606. (07:53:36 AM) happygamer: if you're a genius
  607. (07:53:39 AM) Oughtobe: not figure out some stupid secret or watch some great ending
  608. (07:53:42 AM) Gins: and also thought that the other is "simply a clone"
  609. (07:53:45 AM) Voodoo__Lord: erm I mean the secret part
  610. (07:54:00 AM) Voodoo__Lord: well nobody's saying MI3a would be trash without the secret
  611. (07:54:05 AM) Voodoo__Lord: but, on the secret alone
  612. (07:54:10 AM) Gins: yeah it's about the story.
  613. (07:54:19 AM) Voodoo__Lord: saying something like "the secret is a secret"
  614. (07:54:21 AM) Gins: i'm sure if ron just came in here and said "well this is the secret, blam"
  615. (07:54:22 AM) Voodoo__Lord: would be a copout
  616. (07:54:28 AM) Gins: it would be really underwhelming
  617. (07:54:28 AM) Cheeseness: I think I'd prefer to be wondering about the secret after a fictional MI3a than have it explained. The need for things to be explained isn't so important. You can give a story satisfying closure without giving away all of its mysteries
  618. (07:54:30 AM) Oughtobe: I think his whole point is that people who play games just to beat them and get the ending are stupid
  619. (07:54:32 AM) Babar: :D
  620. (07:54:36 AM) Oughtobe: the games should be fun and funny
  621. (07:54:37 AM) Babar: still discussing MI2
  622. (07:54:43 AM) Babar: this is why Ron dodged out today :D
  623. (07:54:47 AM) Oughtobe: life is about the adventure, not about what you have when you die
  624. (07:54:52 AM) happygamer: what would you about ron making a game where all names are changed so he doesn't infringe copy rights?
  625. (07:55:07 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: Unless you're playing a sierra adventure game, in which case you want to see all the deaths
  626. (07:55:11 AM) Voodoo__Lord: the problem is that the importance of the Secret rest on the fact that it is a secret, not on its impact
  627. (07:55:19 AM) Oughtobe: I love Sierra games too
  628. (07:55:22 AM) Voodoo__Lord: because it has very little impact on the games
  629. (07:55:26 AM) happygamer: just call him shyprosh croopwood
  630. (07:55:26 AM) Oughtobe: they are just different kinds of games
  631. (07:55:32 AM) Oughtobe: Ron's games were more immersive
  632. (07:55:40 AM) Voodoo__Lord: so to left it unexplained would rend the would thing... pointless
  633. (07:55:41 AM) happygamer: and chimpanzee island
  634. (07:55:47 AM) Flacote left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  635. (07:55:47 AM) Oughtobe: Sierra games were kinda like choose your own adventure books
  636. (07:55:53 AM) Cheeseness: The other Monkey Island games had a very different attitude to the first two, I think
  637. (07:55:54 AM) Lattsam: bai
  638. (07:55:56 AM) Voodoo__Lord: (or maybe Ron can think up something to make it good that way)
  639. (07:55:57 AM) Oughtobe: Ron's games was like an awesome novel
  640. (07:55:58 AM) Lattsam left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  641. (07:56:04 AM) Cheeseness: Bye Lattsam
  642. (07:56:11 AM) Oughtobe: The other monkey island games and the telltale ones were trash
  643. (07:56:18 AM) Gins: The Adventures of Dudescrub Underwood
  644. (07:56:19 AM) Cheeseness: My hobby: saying bye to people after they've left
  645. (07:56:34 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  646. (07:56:38 AM) happygamer: for some reason rons latest games didn't have a deep story
  647. (07:56:38 AM) Cheeseness: Bye Mettanine!
  648. (07:56:38 AM) Oughtobe: Monkey Island 1 and 2 are the greatest adventure games ever made
  649. (07:56:40 AM) Syd: I disagree, Oughtobe, but different strokes for different folks.
  650. (07:56:43 AM) Oughtobe: and Full Throttle
  651. (07:56:53 AM) Oughtobe: what do you disagree with Syd?
  652. (07:57:04 AM) Babar: the other Monkey Island games are not Monkey Island games :D
  653. (07:57:05 AM) Oughtobe: strokes are strokes
  654. (07:57:06 AM) Syd: Your opinion on post-MI2 Monkey Island titles
  655. (07:57:12 AM) Oughtobe: they don't change from person to person
  656. (07:57:16 AM) Cheeseness: Yeah, I think that calling the subsequent Monkey Island games trash is probably undeserved
  657. (07:57:21 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Oughtobe they werent' trash
  658. (07:57:23 AM) Oughtobe: we all have fives senses and a conceptual integrations
  659. (07:57:25 AM) Gins: they're not trash
  660. (07:57:26 AM) Gins: far from it
  661. (07:57:27 AM) Babar: well, maybe not trash :D
  662. (07:57:31 AM) Gins: they're simply not Ron's story
  663. (07:57:33 AM) Babar: but vastly inferior
  664. (07:57:34 AM) Voodoo__Lord: don't make me use the word "objectively" OR ELSE!
  665. (07:57:36 AM) Oughtobe: compared to MI 1 and 2??????
  666. (07:57:36 AM) Gins: that's about the only thing that's wrong with them
  667. (07:57:37 AM) Babar: and not really Monkey Island
  668. (07:57:40 AM) happygamer: The other games were okay, I don't think/talk about them so much
  669. (07:57:42 AM) Cheeseness: They're all good and intersting in their own right. Whether they fit with the first two is definitely debatable, but that doesn't make them inherently bad
  670. (07:57:50 AM) Oughtobe: MI 1 and 2 were masterpieces
  671. (07:57:51 AM) DuderakeFourkforest: cmi was like licensed good fan fiction
  672. (07:57:56 AM) Babar: I suppose 3 was less vastly inferior :D
  673. (07:57:57 AM) Oughtobe: everything else has to be trash then
  674. (07:58:00 AM) Gins: basically, the guys who made CMI didn't know the secret
  675. (07:58:03 AM) Gins: so it's not their fault
  676. (07:58:03 AM) Syd: They're different, they're certainly not what Ron would have made, but I enjoyed them anyway.
  677. (07:58:04 AM) happygamer: they lacked the mystic
  678. (07:58:06 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: That's not rue either
  679. (07:58:07 AM) happygamer: of the first 2
  680. (07:58:08 AM) Cheeseness: true^
  681. (07:58:09 AM) Gins: MI4's story though....................
  682. (07:58:17 AM) Oughtobe: they didn't know how to make good games
  683. (07:58:20 AM) Gins: that certainly has to be someone's fault >_>
  684. (07:58:26 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Oughtobe: another thing, the "journey" is important in a story
  685. (07:58:29 AM) Voodoo__Lord: but the ending is too
  686. (07:58:44 AM) Voodoo__Lord: it makes you feel shitty when an amazing journey in the end was for nothing
  687. (07:58:56 AM) Voodoo__Lord: ok,maybe not shitty, but it's a bummer
  688. (07:58:56 AM) Gins: yeah
  689. (07:59:01 AM) Oughtobe: The Journey is the story, but it has to have a climax
  690. (07:59:05 AM) Gins: kinda like Tales of Monkey Island...
  691. (07:59:07 AM) happygamer: have you played remini gemini rue here?
  692. (07:59:12 AM) Babar: there is this, which seeks to demake the art style, but...still missing the point :D
  693. (07:59:15 AM) Oughtobe: but that doesn't mean the secret needs to be explained or given away to be a good climax
  694. (07:59:17 AM) Gins: 5 episodes just to return everything back to status-quo
  695. (07:59:20 AM) Babar: did MI4 have a story?
  696. (07:59:25 AM) Gins: yea it did
  697. (07:59:29 AM) Babar: I'd venture enough to say that MI4 WAS trash
  698. (07:59:34 AM) Babar: especially for the time and place it was made
  699. (07:59:35 AM) Syd: Telltale had to return the series to the status quo. LucasArts made them.
  700. (07:59:47 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Oughtobe: agree, but it would be really hard to make a good climax that way, is all I'm saying
  701. (07:59:50 AM) Gins: yeah i know
  702. (07:59:58 AM) Gins: but that's what makes TMI a quite weak MI game
  703. (07:59:58 AM) Voodoo__Lord: hoping Ron will be able to pull it off though, if that's what is in his mind
  704. (08:00:00 AM) Gins: no risks
  705. (08:00:16 AM) Oughtobe: of course, thats why you need a genius like Ron Gilbert to do it
  706. (08:00:18 AM) happygamer: have you done gemini rue here?
  707. (08:00:25 AM) Syd: Yeah, we've done Gemini Rue
  708. (08:00:29 AM) happygamer: okay
  709. (08:00:36 AM) Babar: does Telltale still have a license to make TMI games>
  710. (08:00:38 AM) Babar: ?
  711. (08:00:39 AM) Oughtobe: Think about it, the guy invented point and click games
  712. (08:00:40 AM) Syd: Nope
  713. (08:00:41 AM) happygamer: was it good?
  714. (08:00:45 AM) Voodoo__Lord: I don't like MI4, but I can concede to people to like it
  715. (08:00:46 AM) Babar: awww
  716. (08:00:46 AM) Syd: They only had that agreement to make one Monkey Island game
  717. (08:00:48 AM) happygamer: i think about playing ir
  718. (08:00:54 AM) Oughtobe: no I think it was a temporary type of license
  719. (08:00:56 AM) Babar: I cannot concede to people who like it :D
  720. (08:01:01 AM) Oughtobe: they didn't buy the IP
  721. (08:01:03 AM) Gins: I really liked MI4 when it came out
  722. (08:01:12 AM) Oughtobe: what did you like about it gins?
  723. (08:01:12 AM) Babar: it implies they are grossly undereducated as far as adventure games are concerned :D
  724. (08:01:16 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Oughtobe: nobody is saying otherwise, still, even genius have a hard time in their works
  725. (08:01:20 AM) Gins: however, some parts of its STORY, especially so in the end, were really weak
  726. (08:01:23 AM) Oughtobe: the fact that it reminded you of MI 1 and 2?
  727. (08:01:34 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  728. (08:01:35 AM) Oughtobe: a hard time?
  729. (08:01:42 AM) happygamer: the funny thing is ron does not know why monkey island become so popular
  730. (08:02:02 AM) Babar: the art was crap, the story was....nothing, the gameplay was incredibly tired and old at that point, and most of it was just a retread of old stuff
  731. (08:02:03 AM) Gins: well you never know
  732. (08:02:04 AM) Voodoo__Lord: a lot of masterpieces were unexpected
  733. (08:02:06 AM) GameClubFan_459769 [] entered the room.
  734. (08:02:06 AM) Babar: for some sort of fan service
  735. (08:02:07 AM) Gins: and obviously he doesn't know
  736. (08:02:15 AM) Gins: otherwise he'd still make good games :P
  737. (08:02:19 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: Yeah, Gemini Rue was great. I played it for the first time in preparation for Game Club and was really impressed. We also had Joshua Nuernberger join us for one of the sessions
  738. (08:02:20 AM) Gins: (don't kill me haha)
  739. (08:02:22 AM) Babar: awww
  740. (08:02:23 AM) Oughtobe: Ron couldn't make games if they were just "hard", hard is good when you love making games
  741. (08:02:24 AM) Babar: hahaha
  742. (08:02:29 AM) Babar: although you're not wrong, Gins :D
  743. (08:02:37 AM) Gins: the cave was quite average
  744. (08:02:39 AM) Babar: after MI2, what famous thing did Ron make?
  745. (08:02:45 AM) Gins: had it not Ron Gilbert's name on it, i'd never have bought it
  746. (08:02:52 AM) Gins: i didn't even get very far in it
  747. (08:02:56 AM) Babar: and that hack&slash game from before
  748. (08:02:56 AM) Oughtobe: Have you guys played Resonance?
  749. (08:02:57 AM) Gins: likewise for deathspank
  750. (08:03:02 AM) Babar: was kinda average too
  751. (08:03:03 AM) Babar: yes
  752. (08:03:03 AM) Oughtobe: We should really do that for the next game club
  753. (08:03:04 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Oughtobe: uh? I meant that even he could fail
  754. (08:03:06 AM) Oughtobe: I know the creator
  755. (08:03:08 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: Aside from DeathSpank and Humungous?
  756. (08:03:10 AM) Oughtobe: it was basically made by one guy
  757. (08:03:13 AM) happygamer: then I'll try it
  758. (08:03:14 AM) Syd: I found that the biggest problems with MI4 was how it handled the story. I've talked with people for whom MI4 was their first Monkey Island game, and they loved it. Since they had no reference point for what was expected out of Monkey Island, they had no idea that it did such strange stuff to the story and characters.
  759. (08:03:16 AM) Oughtobe: I'm friends with him
  760. (08:03:21 AM) Babar: VinceXII
  761. (08:03:26 AM) Babar: he did in AGS :D
  762. (08:03:46 AM) happygamer: the australian guy in mi4, i hated him
  763. (08:03:50 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: Hop in the planning thread and throw ideas around. We like to try to be planned a few games ahead, so doing it next isn't likely, but it's been suggested before, and it'd be good to have some more support for it over there :)
  764. (08:03:52 AM) Babar: hahaha
  765. (08:03:53 AM) Oughtobe: You mean Vince Wessellmann
  766. (08:03:58 AM) happygamer: gemini rue was made in AGS??
  767. (08:03:59 AM) Babar: Syd, had they played other games?
  768. (08:04:06 AM) Babar: it was as well, yes
  769. (08:04:08 AM) Smith: What people seem to forget is that game development is a collaboration. Ron didn't create Monkey Island on his own.
  770. (08:04:09 AM) Gins: a big problem is that MI4 retconned a lot of things happening in previous games
  771. (08:04:11 AM) Babar: all good games are made in AGS :D
  772. (08:04:19 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: Yeah, it was made in AGS
  773. (08:04:23 AM) Gins: suddenly herman toothrot was elaine's grandpa
  774. (08:04:24 AM) Babar: another big problem was the horrible art :D
  775. (08:04:24 AM) happygamer: wow
  776. (08:04:31 AM) Gins: suddenly he has never been on the seamonkey
  777. (08:04:33 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: I thought GR had great art
  778. (08:04:35 AM) Oughtobe: If we donated a little money Vince will do a playthrough and do a voice over for us I bet
  779. (08:04:36 AM) Babar: and another was the tired gameplay :P
  780. (08:04:41 AM) Babar: GR?
  781. (08:04:43 AM) Syd: Yeah, I'm just saying that I've met people for whom Monkey Island 4 was their first Monkey Island, and they loved it. What I'm trying to say is that it wasn't necessarily a horrible game, but Monkey Island fans rejected it for what it did with the plot and characters.
  782. (08:04:46 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: Gemini Rue?
  783. (08:04:49 AM) Oughtobe: has anyone played Resonance????
  784. (08:04:51 AM) Cheeseness: But back on Monkey Island, didn't Monkey Island 2 have some fantastic art
  785. (08:04:54 AM) Babar: oh
  786. (08:04:55 AM) Babar: it idd
  787. (08:04:57 AM) Gins: Syd: yes, it was a great game
  788. (08:04:58 AM) Voodoo__Lord: The main problem for me was Guybrush's personality
  789. (08:05:00 AM) Babar: I was speaking of Monkey 4
  790. (08:05:04 AM) Cheeseness: Oh
  791. (08:05:06 AM) Gins: it just didn't fit well into the existing MI timeline
  792. (08:05:06 AM) Voodoo__Lord: he was made a whiny wimp
  793. (08:05:11 AM) Oughtobe: The GUI alone was a huge innovation for adventure gaems
  794. (08:05:19 AM) japro left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
  795. (08:05:23 AM) Oughtobe: its the best adventure game to come out in like 14 years
  796. (08:05:23 AM) udoncat: Thanks for the stream and chat, got to go :)
  797. (08:05:27 AM) Babar: there are many many many problems with MI4
  798. (08:05:28 AM) happygamer: bye
  799. (08:05:31 AM) udoncat: bye
  800. (08:05:34 AM) Cheeseness: Voodoo__Lord: I think Elaine's suffered more than Guybrush's :(
  801. (08:05:36 AM) Babar: I like to separate them from the problems I had wit MI3
  802. (08:05:41 AM) Cheeseness: Bye udoncat! Talk to you soon :)
  803. (08:05:41 AM) Oughtobe: I'm working on two adventure games
  804. (08:05:42 AM) udoncat left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  805. (08:05:49 AM) Oughtobe: one is an ode to sierra and lucas games
  806. (08:05:53 AM) Oughtobe: and one is my own original one
  807. (08:05:54 AM) Babar: although I suspected Herman Toothrot right from the start
  808. (08:05:56 AM) Voodoo__Lord: Cheeseness: Elaine was a bastard in that game, so feels good :D
  809. (08:06:01 AM) Babar: i.e. HT Marley
  810. (08:06:02 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: Sweet. What tools are you using?
  811. (08:06:08 AM) Oughtobe: Unity
  812. (08:06:13 AM) Cheeseness: Cool
  813. (08:06:19 AM) Oughtobe: mainly because of the porting factor
  814. (08:06:24 AM) DuderakeFourkforest left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  815. (08:06:24 AM) happygamer: is ags difficult to learn?
  816. (08:06:27 AM) Oughtobe: I love AGS, but Unity is better
  817. (08:06:34 AM) Babar: AGS is very easy to learn
  818. (08:06:37 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  819. (08:06:50 AM) GameClubFan_459769 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  820. (08:06:56 AM) Oughtobe: I may work with some people and customize Unity but I think it will work for what I want to do
  821. (08:06:58 AM) happygamer: so the art is the difficult part?
  822. (08:06:59 AM) Babar: if you're an absolute unscripter, one of the older versions even had an interaction editor that did all the scripting for you
  823. (08:07:25 AM) Oughtobe: Any Police Quest fans in here?
  824. (08:07:28 AM) Voodoo__Lord: well time to go for me too
  825. (08:07:28 AM) Babar: happy, I'd say as long as you can do a consistent art style, art shouldn't be a stumbling block for you making a game
  826. (08:07:34 AM) Babar: even if it is a consistently BAD art style :D
  827. (08:07:38 AM) Oughtobe: Some big news is coming soon if you are
  828. (08:07:38 AM) Voodoo__Lord: thanks everybody! See you next time!
  829. (08:07:43 AM) happygamer: bye
  830. (08:07:51 AM) Voodoo__Lord left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  831. (08:07:52 AM) Oughtobe: quick question
  832. (08:08:05 AM) Babar: "Has anyone played Resonance?
  833. (08:08:07 AM) Babar: "
  834. (08:08:07 AM) Babar: :P
  835. (08:08:08 AM) Oughtobe: who here thinks the art style was better in Full throttle than in the new DF game?
  836. (08:08:17 AM) Babar: hahahahahah
  837. (08:08:18 AM) Oughtobe: Babar, have you?
  838. (08:08:24 AM) Babar: yes, Ought
  839. (08:08:26 AM) Babar: ages ago
  840. (08:08:28 AM) Babar: when it came out
  841. (08:08:30 AM) Oughtobe: did you like it?
  842. (08:08:31 AM) happygamer: let's wait for the finished df game
  843. (08:08:32 AM) happygamer: to judge
  844. (08:08:41 AM) Oughtobe: I played the beta
  845. (08:08:46 AM) Babar: it was nice, Out
  846. (08:08:51 AM) Oughtobe: and the official release, I have the signed box too
  847. (08:08:53 AM) Gins: full throttle looked great
  848. (08:09:00 AM) Gins: broken age looks great too
  849. (08:09:11 AM) Gins: wasn't a big fan of the art style in the beginning but now it looks good and seems to fi
  850. (08:09:12 AM) Gins: t
  851. (08:09:13 AM) Oughtobe: Broken Age, lame name
  852. (08:09:14 AM) Gins: and that's all that counts
  853. (08:09:22 AM) Oughtobe: I liked A world apart or something like that
  854. (08:09:27 AM) Gins: different artstyles, but you can't say that one is better than the other
  855. (08:09:33 AM) Oughtobe: the one that was the highest in the poll on the forums
  856. (08:09:34 AM) happygamer: names are not important
  857. (08:09:39 AM) Oughtobe: yes they are
  858. (08:09:39 AM) happygamer: i liked grim fandango
  859. (08:09:47 AM) Gins: if brokenage had the same art style as double fine it would look really out of place
  860. (08:09:48 AM) Oughtobe: Grim Fandango was an awesome name
  861. (08:09:58 AM) Arthur_D [] entered the room.
  862. (08:10:01 AM) happygamer: should have called it Twin Fandango
  863. (08:10:02 AM) GROGBELLY [] entered the room.
  864. (08:10:05 AM) Babar: Full Throttle's art...method... is actually closer to the DFA rather than other games
  865. (08:10:09 AM) happygamer: instead of broken age
  866. (08:10:13 AM) Babar: vectory
  867. (08:10:15 AM) Gins: broken age is not a grim fandango kind of awesome name, that's true
  868. (08:10:15 AM) Oughtobe: MI 1 and 2 and full throttle, if they came out today, they would look better than Broken Age
  869. (08:10:18 AM) Gins: but it works i guess
  870. (08:10:21 AM) Oughtobe: if I saw all 4 in a store
  871. (08:10:27 AM) Oughtobe: I would buy Broken Age last
  872. (08:10:29 AM) Gins: eh
  873. (08:10:43 AM) Gins: tbh, i'd probably like broken age more than MI1SE
  874. (08:10:51 AM) Babar: oh definitely
  875. (08:10:51 AM) happygamer: full throttle is on the same level as broken age
  876. (08:10:54 AM) Babar: the SE art was horrible
  877. (08:10:55 AM) Gins: so yea
  878. (08:11:07 AM) GROGBELLY: how do i watch the stream? only seeing double fine logo on the twitch stream
  879. (08:11:18 AM) Syd: The stream is over
  880. (08:11:21 AM) happygamer: stream has ended
  881. (08:11:24 AM) happygamer: over
  882. (08:11:26 AM) happygamer: and out
  883. (08:11:26 AM) Babar: I don't agree with your specific example, but I can see where your opinion is coming from
  884. (08:11:37 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  885. (08:11:46 AM) Babar: an entire generation of games had fairly crappy art because they felt the need to do 3D, and 3D wasn't really perfected at that point
  886. (08:11:49 AM) GROGBELLY: is there a recording online?
  887. (08:12:02 AM) GROGBELLY: how many hours ago did it start?
  888. (08:12:11 AM) happygamer: 1.25 h
  889. (08:12:13 AM) Babar: which is why I love Grim Fandango's art and aesthetic so much. It doesn't fight against the technology to try and be as realistic as possible
  890. (08:12:14 AM) Syd: If it isn't up now, it should be soon. It'll be on the DFGameClub twitch channel
  891. (08:12:17 AM) Babar: it embraces the art
  892. (08:12:23 AM) Babar: I mean, the limitations
  893. (08:12:28 AM) GROGBELLY: thanks syd
  894. (08:12:41 AM) GROGBELLY: thanks happygamer
  895. (08:12:52 AM) happygamer: isn't there a grim fandango high def fan remake in the works?
  896. (08:13:05 AM) happygamer: updating textures and such
  897. (08:13:15 AM) Babar: is there?
  898. (08:13:18 AM) Babar: seems pointless
  899. (08:13:18 AM) Syd: Yeah, they've redone Manny's model, at least to an extent.
  900. (08:13:25 AM) Babar: hahahah
  901. (08:13:25 AM) Babar: how?
  902. (08:13:26 AM) Cheeseness: GROGBELLY: There's a countdown timer on the site normally, and I throw tweets out before the events start if that's helpful
  903. (08:13:30 AM) Babar: I mean, what did they updated?
  904. (08:13:32 AM) Babar: -d
  905. (08:13:37 AM) happygamer: i found it
  906. (08:13:38 AM) happygamer:
  907. (08:13:46 AM) happygamer: it's in progress
  908. (08:13:59 AM) Syd: He looks almost exactly like he did before, just with higher res textures and increased polycount.
  909. (08:14:02 AM) Babar: the only reason to really update is because so many people seem to have problems running it on modern PCs
  910. (08:14:14 AM) Gins: i wish i could play grim fandango :/
  911. (08:14:19 AM) Syd: Well, you can play it with ResidualVM now
  912. (08:14:19 AM) happygamer: residualVM
  913. (08:14:26 AM) Babar: don't see the difference much :D
  914. (08:14:28 AM) happygamer: it's like scummVM for the 3d games
  915. (08:14:32 AM) Gins: i know that
  916. (08:14:33 AM) Gins: but
  917. (08:14:34 AM) GROGBELLY: thanks your cheeseness i messed up i put it in my calendar for 11PM london time
  918. (08:14:37 AM) Oughtobe: what is that?
  919. (08:14:38 AM) Gins: i don't HAVE grim fandango ;_;
  920. (08:14:40 AM) Arthur_D left the room (quit: Ping timeout).
  921. (08:14:47 AM) happygamer: ebay
  922. (08:14:54 AM) Oughtobe: is that the grim fandango that works on xbla?
  923. (08:15:02 AM) Babar: I have Grim Fandango :D
  924. (08:15:03 AM) Gins: I shudder when I think of the price it might have...
  925. (08:15:11 AM) Oughtobe: i forget who did that, but thats awesome, I wish they would put it out
  926. (08:15:12 AM) Babar: one of the last games I got off LucasArts website
  927. (08:15:15 AM) Cheeseness: GROGBELLY: The countdown timer on the site has a link directly below it which should redirect you to something which shows your local timezone as well (in case you ever get a bit confused)
  928. (08:15:24 AM) happygamer: here in germany it's 10 eur on ebay, the box set
  929. (08:15:32 AM) Syd: Disney owns Grim Fandango now. I'm not confident that they'll ever bother to re-release it.
  930. (08:15:32 AM) Gins: what really?
  931. (08:15:35 AM) Gins: awesome i should order it
  932. (08:16:10 AM) Gins: although i'd prefer english
  933. (08:16:16 AM) happygamer: i don't if it has english voice
  934. (08:16:17 AM) Babar: Disney owns everything now ._.
  935. (08:16:19 AM) Babar: literally
  936. (08:16:23 AM) Gins: german version probably doesn't
  937. (08:16:33 AM) Babar: Marvel, Pixar, LucasArtsFilm...
  938. (08:16:37 AM) Gins: german versions of old adventure games only have german usually
  939. (08:16:38 AM) Cheeseness: Oughtobe: ResiduaVM is a reimplementation of Grim Fandango's engine (I think it might support a couple of other titles as well now) that you can use files from the original game with. I don't think it runs on the xbox
  940. (08:16:39 AM) Smith: i think they may yet find a use for the name though...
  941. (08:16:41 AM) Smith: heh
  942. (08:16:42 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  943. (08:16:46 AM) Babar: they just need WB, then they can copyright your entire childhood
  944. (08:16:50 AM) Gins: because the voices made up most of the space on the disc
  945. (08:16:58 AM) Babar: Cheese...what other games?
  946. (08:17:00 AM) Babar: aside from MI4
  947. (08:17:25 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: There were one or two others (including MI4 :b ) that they were targeting IIRC. Go look at the site
  948. (08:17:37 AM) Cheeseness: (I haven't paid a lot of attention, so I'm happy to be wrong ^_^ )
  949. (08:17:37 AM) Syd: They were working on getting it to run some Myst game, I think
  950. (08:17:39 AM) salty-horse: Cheeseness, for residual, the new mysts are also targeted
  951. (08:17:41 AM) Babar: was the Indy action game also made in the same engine?
  952. (08:17:45 AM) GROGBELLY: is full throttle being re-made? any chance now that lucasArts is no more?
  953. (08:17:46 AM) Babar: ahh
  954. (08:17:50 AM) Babar: no
  955. (08:17:53 AM) Gins: no chance
  956. (08:17:56 AM) Babar: there is LESS chance now, Grog
  957. (08:17:56 AM) Cheeseness: GROGBELLY: It seems unlikely
  958. (08:17:59 AM) GROGBELLY: CRAAAP
  959. (08:18:00 AM) GROGBELLY: :(
  960. (08:18:03 AM) Babar: of any of the old adventure games being picked up
  961. (08:18:04 AM) Babar: ever
  962. (08:18:04 AM) Cheeseness: Even though LA is closed, Disney still holds all the IP
  963. (08:18:12 AM) Gins: unless someone finds a connection to starwars in this game
  964. (08:18:14 AM) salty-horse: and if anyone hasn't noticed and cares, scummvm got in-progress support of the neverhood a few days ago
  965. (08:18:32 AM) happygamer: Ron said at some point he'll try to contact disney about MI but he hasn't done it yet
  966. (08:18:35 AM) Syd: Oh, nice. Neverhood is a bit tricky to run nowadays, so that'll help.
  967. (08:18:36 AM) happygamer: maybe he's afraid
  968. (08:18:41 AM) Babar: hahaha
  969. (08:18:49 AM) Babar: I wonder what Disney thinks of MI
  970. (08:19:02 AM) Syd: I wonder if Disney is even aware that MI exists and they now own it
  971. (08:19:04 AM) Babar: it is a PotC rip-off that was ripped off by the PotC movie
  972. (08:19:10 AM) Smith: probably nothing. he's been dead for a while now
  973. (08:19:12 AM) happygamer: they have the potc franchise
  974. (08:19:32 AM) Gins: disney is probably aware
  975. (08:19:34 AM) happygamer: why would disney need a second pirate themed ip
  976. (08:19:37 AM) Syd: MI and PotC have a strange quasi-incestuous relationship.
  977. (08:19:39 AM) Gins: they took some ideas from MI for PotC
  978. (08:19:45 AM) GROGBELLY: they could make it into a film, guybrush vs jack sparrow
  979. (08:19:46 AM) happygamer: lol
  980. (08:19:46 AM) Babar: definitely :D
  981. (08:20:10 AM) Gins: unfortunately if disney sees anything in MI
  982. (08:20:10 AM) happygamer: guybrush has the better name
  983. (08:20:13 AM) salty-horse: neither of them are classic pirates
  984. (08:20:15 AM) Gins: it's the potential to milk it for money
  985. (08:20:16 AM) happygamer: 1:0 guybrush
  986. (08:20:37 AM) Gins: no way in hell are they going to give the franchise to the one man who's definitely going to end it in one low-budget game and "ruin" the franchise for the future
  987. (08:20:38 AM) Cheeseness: I like how Dom looks a little like a well fed Orlando Bloom in that movie
  988. (08:20:49 AM) happygamer: has disney ever sold an IP?
  989. (08:20:56 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: Not that I'm aware of
  990. (08:20:56 AM) Babar: they'd probably "discuss" it
  991. (08:21:05 AM) Cheeseness: They have a whole heck of a lot of stuff rotting that they won't let out
  992. (08:21:10 AM) Babar: did Ron say he'd only make a game if he owned the IP?
  993. (08:21:14 AM) Gins: yes
  994. (08:21:14 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: He did
  995. (08:21:17 AM) Babar: or he'd do it if he had a license?
  996. (08:21:21 AM) Gins: no
  997. (08:21:23 AM) Gins: he MUST own it
  998. (08:21:24 AM) Babar: awww
  999. (08:21:26 AM) Babar: yeah
  1000. (08:21:27 AM) Gins: it's his own condition
  1001. (08:21:28 AM) Cheeseness: He seemed pretty clear that he wouldn't be happy with licencing it
  1002. (08:21:28 AM) Babar: no MI gmae
  1003. (08:21:32 AM) Babar: from him
  1004. (08:21:36 AM) Syd: Disney has actually sold licenses before. Minor ones, but they've sold them.
  1005. (08:21:40 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1006. (08:21:48 AM) Babar: Syd, are you named for the surfer?
  1007. (08:21:48 AM) happygamer: it's funny that they also did a 3rd deathspank without ron knowing
  1008. (08:21:51 AM) Gins: monkey 3a will never happen :/
  1009. (08:21:59 AM) Gins: a 3rd deathspank?
  1010. (08:22:02 AM) Gins: i only know of 2
  1011. (08:22:03 AM) Babar: probably not
  1012. (08:22:05 AM) GROGBELLY: have to say, I bought the cave when it was released, first game i've actually sat down and played all the way through in years,
  1013. (08:22:06 AM) Gins: and i didn't even play 1
  1014. (08:22:09 AM) Syd: It's sort of a happy coincidence that my nickname is the same as one of the characters from Maniac Mansion
  1015. (08:22:12 AM) happygamer: there is a 3rd
  1016. (08:22:18 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: DeathSpank belonged to HotHead. I got the impression that Ron' was comfortable with that
  1017. (08:22:18 AM) happygamer: but without ron's involvement
  1018. (08:22:19 AM) Babar: hahah..ok
  1019. (08:22:35 AM) happygamer: ron invented deathspank
  1020. (08:22:35 AM) GROGBELLY: will there be more coming from double fine as good as this
  1021. (08:22:40 AM) Babar: Ron hasn't really made anything major other than MI
  1022. (08:22:45 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: Depends on whether you call Thongs of Virtue a sequel or a spin off or an expansion (it's standalone though)
  1023. (08:22:46 AM) Babar: that's the only reason we love him :(
  1024. (08:22:47 AM) Gins: yea
  1025. (08:23:01 AM) happygamer: but he doesn't seem to be good in negotiating contracts
  1026. (08:23:06 AM) Gins: MI was his only big success...
  1027. (08:23:14 AM) Babar: yes, this is what I mean
  1028. (08:23:17 AM) happygamer: maniac mansion!
  1029. (08:23:19 AM) Gins: and outside of this i can't really find myself to be amazed by other games he made
  1030. (08:23:22 AM) Gins: only this one
  1031. (08:23:24 AM) Babar: I was going to mention that
  1032. (08:23:29 AM) Gins: and i wonder if maybe he just had this one brilliant idea
  1033. (08:23:30 AM) Cheeseness: It'd be interesting to compare revenue from The Cave with Monkey Island 2 (when it'd been out for the same amount of time)
  1034. (08:23:34 AM) Babar: but Maniac Mansion wasn't really as popular as MI became
  1035. (08:23:37 AM) Cheeseness: I imagine The Cave is more successful
  1036. (08:23:37 AM) Gins: and the games only turned out like this because he worked with Tim
  1037. (08:23:47 AM) Gins: and Dave
  1038. (08:23:50 AM) Babar: purely in numbers, perhaps, Cheese
  1039. (08:23:58 AM) Syd: Ron said that both MI1 and 2 both didn't really sell that well when they were released. It took them some time to catch on.
  1040. (08:23:58 AM) happygamer: maybe ron is not a genius
  1041. (08:24:04 AM) happygamer: and he was lucky once
  1042. (08:24:18 AM) Babar: probably as percentages MI would be higher u
  1043. (08:24:19 AM) Babar: p
  1044. (08:24:19 AM) happygamer: or he sold his soul to the devil for mi
  1045. (08:24:26 AM) Gins: yeah probably
  1046. (08:24:33 AM) Babar: I mean, fewer people bought games back then, lots of other things to consider, etc.
  1047. (08:24:48 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: What sort of other metrics would you be using to measure success? I'll admit that The Cave wasn't as impressive to me as Monkey Island, but me being impressed probably doesn't make a game successful
  1048. (08:24:58 AM) Cheeseness: (in fact, it seems to be the opposite sometimes :D )
  1049. (08:25:05 AM) Gins: well
  1050. (08:25:09 AM) happygamer: mi was art, the cave not so much
  1051. (08:25:10 AM) Gins: consider this
  1052. (08:25:28 AM) Smith: happygamer: thats quite a bold claim
  1053. (08:25:29 AM) Gins: Tim Schafer's Kickstarter for DFA has raised tons of money
  1054. (08:25:30 AM) Cheeseness: happygamer: I'll agree with that, but it doesn't have any bearing on "success" though does it?
  1055. (08:25:36 AM) Babar: I'd be interested in how many people bought MI2 vs The Cave as a percentage of total potential buyers at their respective times, Cheese
  1056. (08:25:36 AM) Gins: only because Ron Gilbert was MENTIONED in it
  1057. (08:25:40 AM) Babar: that'd be the only fair comparison
  1058. (08:25:43 AM) happygamer: no it doesnt
  1059. (08:25:44 AM) Babar: not sure how we'd get it
  1060. (08:25:47 AM) Cheeseness: Though I think The Cave is way deeper than people realise
  1061. (08:26:01 AM) Syd: I wouldn't really say that, Gins. There's lots and lots of Tim Schafer fans who backed it because they like Tim Schafer.
  1062. (08:26:01 AM) Babar: especially considering that The Cave built off Ron's successfulness of MI
  1063. (08:26:01 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: That's pretty much unquantifiable
  1064. (08:26:09 AM) happygamer: ron gilbert could make a kickstarter for a new game but he doesnt
  1065. (08:26:17 AM) Gins: i for example backed it because it had both names in it
  1066. (08:26:24 AM) Gins: at least, with the amount i gave
  1067. (08:26:33 AM) Babar: I suppose you could compare the money it made as a percentage of the total game industry then vs now, Cheese
  1068. (08:26:35 AM) Gins: if it would have been "only tim" i would have given maybe less
  1069. (08:26:40 AM) Gins: but still, yea tim is awesome
  1070. (08:26:41 AM) happygamer: yeah i also thought ron would help more
  1071. (08:26:44 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  1072. (08:26:53 AM) Gins: yea, what Babar
  1073. (08:26:54 AM) Gins: said
  1074. (08:26:54 AM) Babar: he still might help more
  1075. (08:26:55 AM) happygamer: but he didnt promise that
  1076. (08:27:05 AM) Gins: he didn't, but it was somehow implied a bit
  1077. (08:27:10 AM) Syd: Ron is still helping. They're sending him builds of the game and he's giving them feedback over Skype and such, as far as I'm aware.
  1078. (08:27:12 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: You could. Though the market segment of adventure-type games has definitely shrunk over time, so that's probably not a fair comparison either
  1079. (08:27:26 AM) Gins: but whatever, it doesn't really matter. tim is good on his own
  1080. (08:27:27 AM) happygamer: so he is a beta tester
  1081. (08:27:28 AM) Babar: but The Cave is not an adventure game :P
  1082. (08:27:33 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: I didn't get the impression that he'd be involved, just that he'd give some feedback every now and again
  1083. (08:27:33 AM) Babar: as far as cultural impact goes, MI definitely wins out :D
  1084. (08:27:33 AM) Gins: tim actually has been continuously successful
  1085. (08:27:35 AM) Gins: while ron wasn't
  1086. (08:27:51 AM) happygamer: tim is great at writing stories
  1087. (08:27:55 AM) Babar: yeah, the kickstarter vid sorta left it very open
  1088. (08:27:55 AM) Gins: as for the cave
  1089. (08:28:02 AM) Gins: i have unfortunately not yet finished it
  1090. (08:28:03 AM) Babar: with him making an angry face and shutting the door :D
  1091. (08:28:16 AM) Gins: but i'm sure that the "moral of the story" will be a classic gilbert amazing thing
  1092. (08:28:31 AM) Gins: but the gameplay is terrible (in my humble opinion)
  1093. (08:28:33 AM) happygamer: the puzzles in the cave don't feel like they are progressing the story
  1094. (08:28:44 AM) Gins: it goes against all design principles ron has posted on his own blog
  1095. (08:28:55 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: The wording from the pitch vid didn't seem to imply that he'd have direct involvement either - I suspect most people got the impression that he'd be more involved from the early documentary episodes that he's in rather than the pitch video
  1096. (08:29:13 AM) Babar: yes
  1097. (08:29:14 AM) Babar: that is what I said
  1098. (08:29:19 AM) happygamer: that happens if you take a hardcore genre like adventure games and try to make it appealing
  1099. (08:29:22 AM) Babar: ...kinda :D
  1100. (08:29:28 AM) Cheeseness: No it isn't :b
  1101. (08:29:35 AM) Babar: The Cave isn't an adventure game!
  1102. (08:29:45 AM) Gins: it's an adventure platformer
  1103. (08:29:49 AM) happygamer: guys, I'm off
  1104. (08:29:54 AM) Cheeseness: Thanks for coming, happygamer! :)
  1105. (08:29:57 AM) happygamer: see you next time maybe
  1106. (08:30:00 AM) Babar: by "open" I was speaking in contrast to those who were saying they thought he'd be more involved
  1107. (08:30:00 AM) Gins: unfortunately, out of the two genres, at least the platforming part sucks a lot
  1108. (08:30:04 AM) Cheeseness: (yay, finally got to say bye to somebody before they left)
  1109. (08:30:05 AM) Babar: what game is next?
  1110. (08:30:09 AM) Smith: The first two Monkey Island games were the happy result of some very creative minds (Ron Gilbert, Tim Shafer, Dave Grossman, Steve Purcell, Michael Land etc). Its unlikely those same creative conditions will arise again to give us another Monkey Island game.
  1111. (08:30:10 AM) Babar: hahah
  1112. (08:30:15 AM) Gins: and the adventure part unfortunately relies on the platforming
  1113. (08:30:20 AM) happygamer left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1114. (08:30:22 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: As said in the stream, we'll be doing Gravity Bone and 30 Flights of Loving
  1115. (08:30:24 AM) Gins: and gets made a lot more tedious because of it
  1116. (08:30:41 AM) Babar: what was Steve Purcell's role in MI1 and 2?
  1117. (08:30:47 AM) Gins: drawing
  1118. (08:30:49 AM) Smith: Artwork and concepts
  1119. (08:30:49 AM) Gins: characters
  1120. (08:30:50 AM) Babar: aside from having a couple of Maxes hidden about? :D
  1121. (08:30:52 AM) Babar: ahhhh
  1122. (08:30:53 AM) Babar: cool
  1123. (08:30:55 AM) Syd: I think some people underestimate the impact Tim and Dave had on Monkey Island. After all, it was their placeholder dialogue that convinced Ron to make it a comedy in the first place.
  1124. (08:31:07 AM) Gins: indeed
  1125. (08:31:10 AM) Cheeseness: Mmm
  1126. (08:31:21 AM) Gins: (which also links into that idea that "MI can't be THAT dark" that we had before)
  1127. (08:31:29 AM) Gins: (if it would go to ron, it would be even darker)
  1128. (08:31:40 AM) Babar: I'd be interested in seeing that :D
  1129. (08:31:43 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1130. (08:31:52 AM) Syd: Monkey Island likely would have been very, VERY different had Tim and Dave not been on the team.
  1131. (08:31:52 AM) Gins: but i like dark
  1132. (08:31:57 AM) Babar: did Ron get typecast into making comedic video games? :D
  1133. (08:31:59 AM) Cheeseness: MI2 is still pretty sadistic (even if it is presented in a comedic fashion). Guybrush does some awful, awful stuff to people
  1134. (08:32:10 AM) Gins: yeah he does
  1135. (08:32:14 AM) Gins: but MI2 is the perfect mix
  1136. (08:32:21 AM) Gins: this is what makes it such an amazing game
  1137. (08:32:23 AM) GROGBELLY: is there any secret levels in the cave game or anything?
  1138. (08:32:37 AM) Cheeseness: GROGBELLY: Ron didn't reveal any when we did The Cave for Game Club
  1139. (08:32:38 AM) Gins: it gives you all these gruesome concepts but at the same time makes you laugh so you find them ridiculous
  1140. (08:32:54 AM) Gins: you could very well present that "i'll make a screaming chair of pain out of you" part in a different way
  1141. (08:33:19 AM) Babar: Syd, I'd say that an MI game with Ron (but maybe not Dave or Tim) would be closer to the Monkey Islandishness that I missed after 2 than a game with Dave and Tim would be
  1142. (08:33:30 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: I think MI2 had more bad stuff happening as a result of player actions than any other Monkey Island game
  1143. (08:33:39 AM) Gins: yeah that too
  1144. (08:33:40 AM) Babar: despite the fact that they both may have helped considerably in the game's creation
  1145. (08:33:45 AM) Gins: guybrush was really selfish in this
  1146. (08:33:53 AM) Syd: What I meant was that it may not have been a comedy in the first place. It wasn't originally intended to be, but Tim and Dave's placeholder dialogue changed that.
  1147. (08:33:53 AM) Gins: but it also works with his character development
  1148. (08:33:58 AM) Babar: he just wanted the treasure :(
  1149. (08:34:02 AM) Babar: don't be so mean to him!
  1150. (08:34:03 AM) Gins: in the beginning of MI1 he's just a random guy who wants to be a pirate
  1151. (08:34:10 AM) GROGBELLY: whats your twitter cheeseness? gotta head off now
  1152. (08:34:12 AM) Gins: but after defeating leChuck, he wants to stick this to everybody
  1153. (08:34:19 AM) Gins: and he sees himself as above everyone and everything
  1154. (08:34:27 AM) Babar: I liked how you could canon your crew out of the water, though :D
  1155. (08:34:27 AM) Cheeseness: GROGBELLY: My twitter account is @twolofbees, but Game Club has its own @DFGameClub :)
  1156. (08:34:35 AM) Gins: guybrush actually did become a little asshole through his success
  1157. (08:34:41 AM) Babar: hey
  1158. (08:34:45 AM) GROGBELLY: great thanks guys
  1159. (08:34:47 AM) Babar: at least he wasn't like Simon the Sorcerer :D
  1160. (08:34:52 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: There's little remorse from Guybrush even at the end of Monkey Island 2
  1161. (08:34:54 AM) Gins: which is probably also the reason why elaine ditched him
  1162. (08:35:10 AM) Gins: yea
  1163. (08:35:11 AM) Cheeseness: I don't feel that his character has much of an arc
  1164. (08:35:29 AM) Cheeseness: (the real arc may be in the player's perception of the world that Guybrush is in?)
  1165. (08:35:36 AM) Gins: idk, it certainly had a bigger "arc" between MI1 and 2, compared to what CMI, Mi4 and TMI did to him
  1166. (08:35:37 AM) Babar: whatever the case may definitely digressed after 2
  1167. (08:35:46 AM) Babar: where he just became an oversized bumbling baby
  1168. (08:35:51 AM) Cheeseness: I think MI1 actually had character development for Guybrush
  1169. (08:35:56 AM) Cheeseness: MI2, not so much
  1170. (08:36:07 AM) Gins: well MI2 already had a "developed" guybrush
  1171. (08:36:11 AM) Babar: hey
  1172. (08:36:15 AM) Cheeseness: Right
  1173. (08:36:16 AM) Babar: MI2 gave him a beard
  1174. (08:36:20 AM) Babar: very important!
  1175. (08:36:25 AM) Gins: you could say that MI1 made guybrush the man he's in MI2
  1176. (08:36:30 AM) Gins: and fitting with his personality in the beginning of MI2
  1177. (08:36:36 AM) Babar: also, I was actually involved in this: :D
  1178. (08:36:40 AM) Gins: he doesn't see it necessary to change anymore from there
  1179. (08:36:46 AM) Mettanine [] entered the room.
  1180. (08:36:49 AM) Babar: unfortunately, it has been kinda....dead for a while now
  1181. (08:36:57 AM) Babar: although the author says he definitely plans to complete it
  1182. (08:37:01 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: it's rare for a story that doesn't have any kind of protagonist character development to be lauded
  1183. (08:37:22 AM) Babar: doesn't 2 have character progression kinda?
  1184. (08:37:24 AM) Mettanine left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1185. (08:37:36 AM) Babar: from a gung-ho "imaginary ideal" of a pirate, to....
  1186. (08:37:40 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: Not really (not for Guybrush anyway)
  1187. (08:37:45 AM) Babar: well...treasure isn't that important :D
  1188. (08:37:50 AM) Babar: and OMG SHIT I'M A LITTLE BOY
  1189. (08:38:17 AM) Gins: well guybrush actually cares about the treasure until the very end
  1190. (08:38:18 AM) Babar: MI2 was more of a reveal than a character progression story in that sense, I guess
  1191. (08:38:27 AM) Gins: srsly the guy sticks to the stupid chest for 3 days
  1192. (08:38:31 AM) Babar: :D
  1193. (08:38:32 AM) Gins: instead of letting go and saving his own life
  1194. (08:38:38 AM) Cheeseness: The game itself prompts you to question the ending, so it's difficult to consider anything that happens in it as character development as such
  1195. (08:38:59 AM) Gins: idk
  1196. (08:39:10 AM) Gins: character development doesn't always mean "develop to a more positive form"
  1197. (08:39:22 AM) Cheeseness: Did he ever stop caring about the treasure? My impression was that his only reason for ignoring the chest when LeChuck showed up was because it looked like there wasn't anything worthwhile in it
  1198. (08:39:26 AM) Gins: i think guybrush did develop, just he became even more obsessed with that treasure and such.
  1199. (08:39:39 AM) Gins: and surviving on his own
  1200. (08:39:41 AM) Cheeseness: So, it's not like there was any character change there
  1201. (08:39:54 AM) Gins: well not really, only that he got even worse
  1202. (08:40:00 AM) Gins: but it's still development
  1203. (08:40:05 AM) Gins: in one way or another
  1204. (08:40:11 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: I'm not certain. I saw all those things in Guybrush to begin with
  1205. (08:40:27 AM) Smith: Guybrush is a loveable idiot but not an especially deep character. He is a plot enabler. The story is carried forward through his ineptitude. You could almost say Elaine is the real hero of the story.
  1206. (08:40:30 AM) Gins: hm idk in MI1 he seemed a lot more "righteous"
  1207. (08:40:50 AM) Gins: like you said, he didn't harm as many people
  1208. (08:40:56 AM) Gins: and he legitimately cared about elaine, too
  1209. (08:41:00 AM) Cheeseness: Smith: A super awesome perspective
  1210. (08:41:13 AM) Babar: I don't like considering that to be his character :(
  1211. (08:41:13 AM) Gins: in Mi2 suddenly he thinks he's the man and only takes advantage of her to get the map
  1212. (08:41:22 AM) Babar: seems more like a description from 3
  1213. (08:41:26 AM) Babar: or 4 or the Tales
  1214. (08:41:32 AM) Syd: Most of Guybrush's development seemed to have happened between games. His character didn't seem to change much throughout MI2 from what's established in the beginning of the game.
  1215. (08:41:47 AM) Gins: yeah, not really
  1216. (08:42:08 AM) Cheeseness: To me, the biggest addition to Guybrush's character in MI2 is some insecurity
  1217. (08:42:13 AM) Gins: idk, the way i see it it really seems like guybrush got his head up his ass over his victory over lechuck
  1218. (08:42:15 AM) Cheeseness: But that happens prior to the start of the game
  1219. (08:42:38 AM) Gins: insecurity?
  1220. (08:43:01 AM) Babar: another one of the reasons I didn't like 3 as much. It...childified him
  1221. (08:43:09 AM) Gins: yeah
  1222. (08:43:11 AM) Gins: and 4 even moreso
  1223. (08:43:14 AM) Babar: seemed like a trend in the adventure game industry in general at that point
  1224. (08:43:14 AM) Gins: 3 actually was ok
  1225. (08:43:22 AM) Babar: like...with KQVII as well
  1226. (08:43:25 AM) Babar: and Torin's Passage
  1227. (08:43:29 AM) Gins: guybrush was a lovable idiot but he did take responsiblity and he proposed to elaine and all that stuff
  1228. (08:43:37 AM) Gins: Mi4 made him look like a complete fool
  1229. (08:43:47 AM) Cheeseness: Gins: Yeah - he's desperate to be taken seriously (the beard being the initial indicator). That leads into him being terrified of LeChuck taking revenge
  1230. (08:43:47 AM) Babar: a sitcom character
  1231. (08:43:55 AM) Gins: ah yeah
  1232. (08:44:01 AM) Syd: He just seemed a bit neurotic in 3 to me. It was 4 that I think did the worst job with his character
  1233. (08:44:06 AM) Babar: also, he went blonde :D
  1234. (08:44:27 AM) Babar: although I suppose according to close-ups he could've been blonde in 1 as well
  1235. (08:44:36 AM) Cheeseness: Yeah, he was blonde in MI1 IMO
  1236. (08:44:46 AM) Gins: but yeah, Cheeseness, after Mi1 he seems to have become obsessed with the idea of being the one who defeated lechuck
  1237. (08:45:14 AM) Gins: and insecure about being able to repeat this success
  1238. (08:45:25 AM) Gins: which is why he wants to find big whoop, no matter what gets in his way
  1239. (08:45:26 AM) Cheeseness: Right. This happened between games
  1240. (08:45:38 AM) Cheeseness: So you can't really count it as character development *in* MI2
  1241. (08:45:47 AM) Gins: well yea that's true
  1242. (08:45:53 AM) Gins: but i'm actually thinking
  1243. (08:46:03 AM) Gins: one of the reasons why MI became such a big thing
  1244. (08:46:12 AM) Gins: was because they left in so much room for interpretation
  1245. (08:46:32 AM) Gins: every player could interprete the setting, the characters, the plot, the dialog, with a certain liberty
  1246. (08:46:35 AM) Cheeseness: I think maybe it's because people enjoy wreaking Havok. Guybrush is the Bill Murray of games :D
  1247. (08:46:56 AM) Cheeseness: But yeah, some ambiguity always makes things more accessible and more interesting to talk about
  1248. (08:46:57 AM) Gins: i have often found "my Guybrush" to heavily differ from other people's ideas of who guybrush is
  1249. (08:47:10 AM) Heartborne left the room (quit: Broken pipe).
  1250. (08:47:25 AM) Syd: You're often given the opportunity to play Guybrush with different personalities if you wish, through the dialogue selections
  1251. (08:47:25 AM) Gins: the addition of voice acting and higher definition graphics kinda shows this too
  1252. (08:47:35 AM) Gins: a lot of people imagined the voices differently than what they have now
  1253. (08:47:50 AM) Cheeseness: Yeah, for sure
  1254. (08:48:00 AM) Gins: and completely without voice, you can complete the personality however you want in your mind
  1255. (08:48:11 AM) Babar: I probably hate Dominic Armato needlessly because of that :P
  1256. (08:48:16 AM) Babar: (sp)
  1257. (08:48:51 AM) Gins: still i do like that guybrush HAD some development between MI1 and 2
  1258. (08:49:25 AM) Babar: he did between 2 and 3 as well, just not the kind anyone would've liked :D
  1259. (08:49:33 AM) Babar: and then 3 to 4 and Tales had none
  1260. (08:49:34 AM) Gins: while from 3 onward, they ditched the concept completely
  1261. (08:49:37 AM) Gins: yea
  1262. (08:49:42 AM) Gins: well tales might have had some
  1263. (08:49:54 AM) Gins: although it all got reversed in the end again if it happened
  1264. (08:50:07 AM) Babar: although...MI gave me some ideas that seem to be very much missing from many adventure games, especially ...a game where you can actually change the world you're living in by interacting with it in different ways
  1265. (08:50:07 AM) salty-horse left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
  1266. (08:50:17 AM) Gins: i kinda wished that it would go in the direction that he gets tired of elaine not appreciating his efforts and such
  1267. (08:50:18 AM) Babar: seems a very simple concept
  1268. (08:50:22 AM) Babar: but people miss it a lot
  1269. (08:50:24 AM) Gins: and actually does see something in morgan
  1270. (08:50:27 AM) Syd: Tales did have some character development, though it took until, what, episode 3 for the plot to start moving? :P
  1271. (08:50:51 AM) GROGBELLY left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1272. (08:50:55 AM) Babar: I should probably actually play to understand this whole morgan thing
  1273. (08:50:59 AM) Babar: but...can't be bothered :(
  1274. (08:51:09 AM) Babar: I played I think 2.5 episodes of Tales
  1275. (08:51:15 AM) Gins: ah
  1276. (08:51:18 AM) Gins: well you should finish it
  1277. (08:51:26 AM) Babar: it is kinda boring
  1278. (08:51:28 AM) Babar: and samey
  1279. (08:51:36 AM) Babar: I mean, the moment to moment comedy is nice and enjoyable
  1280. (08:51:39 AM) Katemonster_NB [] entered the room.
  1281. (08:51:41 AM) Syd: The first two episodes do kinda suck, but Telltale started applying the feedback they were getting around episode 3. You can easily see the improvements
  1282. (08:51:47 AM) Babar: but all the rest of it is mostly the same
  1283. (08:51:47 AM) Gins: yea
  1284. (08:51:48 AM) Smith: Guybrush is a dream chaser. A kid obsessed with fame and fortune and dreams of pirate adventure. The cracks, however, start to appear in his fantasy world. The falacy of the treasure, Big Whoop, the maintenance tunnels beneath the island and the fairground are visual metaphors of that lie.
  1285. (08:51:51 AM) Gins: it gets better at ep3
  1286. (08:52:08 AM) jfrisby: It's really bad, and the French baddie is dull, and then they mostly go away in episode 3.
  1287. (08:52:09 AM) Syd: I honestly liked episode 4 quite a bit.
  1288. (08:52:25 AM) Gins: i think 3 was my favorite
  1289. (08:52:29 AM) Gins: 4 was good too
  1290. (08:52:33 AM) Babar: which one was 3?
  1291. (08:52:35 AM) Syd: I think 3 probably had the best puzzles
  1292. (08:52:36 AM) Gins: wasn't that the one with the trial of the century-y--y-y-y-y
  1293. (08:52:42 AM) Gins: 3 was the one inside the narwhal
  1294. (08:52:43 AM) Syd: 3 was the one inside of the manatee
  1295. (08:52:46 AM) Babar: I think I got to the one where you're on some sort of water island? And there is some sort of fish creatrure?
  1296. (08:52:47 AM) Gins: manatee*
  1297. (08:53:03 AM) Syd: 4 was the one with the trial and the plot twist at the end.
  1298. (08:53:05 AM) Babar: and you have to get into or something?
  1299. (08:53:13 AM) Gins: yea the plot twist in the end of 4 was quite good
  1300. (08:53:29 AM) Gins: i wonder if ron actually had a similar plan for the voodoo lady
  1301. (08:53:41 AM) Syd: I didn't think they'd do what they did at the end of 4, it was kind of shocking (I'm going to avoid spoilers for anyone that hasn't played it)
  1302. (08:54:05 AM) Syd: Apparently the talk Telltale had with Ron influenced the world of episode 5 quite a bit.
  1303. (08:54:19 AM) Gins: oh
  1304. (08:55:03 AM) Syd: It took a really dark turn. You can sort of sense Ron's influence through the episode.
  1305. (08:55:37 AM) Syd: I just wish there wasn't so much running around in the final episode. SO MUCH running around.
  1306. (08:56:18 AM) Gins: oh well i'd love to keep discussing but i really should get some sleep :/
  1307. (08:56:26 AM) Syd: Bye Gins
  1308. (08:56:26 AM) Gins: silly timezones
  1309. (08:56:27 AM) Babar: :D
  1310. (08:56:33 AM) Cheeseness: Thanks for coming, Gins ^_^
  1311. (08:56:37 AM) Syd: I gotta go as well. I'll see you all around. :)
  1312. (08:56:44 AM) Cheeseness: Thanks for the stream Syd :D
  1313. (08:56:44 AM) Gins: thanks for also being here!
  1314. (08:56:56 AM) jfrisby: Bye :D
  1315. (08:56:59 AM) Gins: yup, thanks it was great
  1316. (08:57:00 AM) Cheeseness: Hey jfrisby
  1317. (08:57:00 AM) Syd left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1318. (08:57:05 AM) jfrisby: Hey!
  1319. (08:57:05 AM) Gins: night!
  1320. (08:57:05 AM) Cheeseness: You've been conspicuously silent
  1321. (08:57:07 AM) Gins left the room.
  1322. (08:57:13 AM) Smith: i'm off too. thanks guys.
  1323. (08:57:14 AM) Cheeseness: Hey Katemonster_NB
  1324. (08:57:19 AM) Cheeseness: Thanks for coming, Smith :)
  1325. (08:57:25 AM) jfrisby: I've just gotten back :/
  1326. (08:57:26 AM) Smith left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1327. (08:58:09 AM) GameClubFan_574599 [] entered the room.
  1328. (08:58:29 AM) Cheeseness: Whomever's left, it'd be great if you could have a go at providing a rating for Monkey Island 2 in the forum thread
  1329. (08:58:30 AM) GameClubFan_574599 left the room (quit: Quit: ajax IRC Client).
  1330. (08:59:13 AM) Cheeseness: jfrisby: Ron wasn't able to make it, unfortunately, but we've been having some good discussion
  1331. (08:59:18 AM) Cheeseness: (more than the first two sessions
  1332. (08:59:19 AM) jfrisby: 10/10 best game ever
  1333. (08:59:37 AM) Heartborne [] entered the room.
  1334. (08:59:41 AM) Cheeseness: Whomever's left, it'd be great if you could have a go at providing a rating for Monkey Island 2 in the forum thread using the *rating system* mentioned there :D
  1335. (09:00:27 AM) jfrisby: Aw well, it's been kind of sad having Ron around anyway. He's a lot like Eeyore.
  1336. (09:00:42 AM) Babar: I agree with jf :P
  1337. (09:00:44 AM) Babar: about MI2
  1338. (09:00:46 AM) Cheeseness: Hah
  1339. (09:00:49 AM) Babar: and....maybe about Ron :D
  1340. (09:01:07 AM) Cheeseness: Babar: Are you interested in doing a ratng of Monkey 2 using the rating system thingy?
  1341. (09:01:18 AM) Babar: I wasn't really watching the stream, though
  1342. (09:01:26 AM) Cheeseness: It's rating the game itself, not the session
  1343. (09:01:42 AM) Babar: ok
  1344. (09:01:43 AM) Babar: sure
  1345. (09:01:46 AM) Cheeseness: :)
  1346. (09:02:03 AM) Babar: don't quite get some of the technical details, though
  1347. (09:02:05 AM) Babar: foley?
  1348. (09:02:38 AM) Cheeseness: foley is sound effects
  1349. (09:03:13 AM) Babar: ah
  1350. (09:03:16 AM) Babar: and input methods?
  1351. (09:03:46 AM) Cheeseness: Where does it say "input methods"? I'm pretty sure I said "input devices" everywhere
  1352. (09:04:17 AM) Babar: sorry
  1353. (09:04:18 AM) Babar: that is what I meant
  1354. (09:04:35 AM) Babar: Usability is a bit of a difficult thing to judge in this regard
  1355. (09:04:37 AM) Babar: anyhow
  1356. (09:04:40 AM) Babar: I shall fill it out
  1357. (09:04:42 AM) Babar: but where?
  1358. (09:05:06 AM) Cheeseness: If you feel that supported input devices should have bearing on how you see the game, then include that (the list of stuff is just stuff that you can consider when working out a rating)
  1359. (09:05:17 AM) Cheeseness: (rather than hard and fast stuff that you need to address specifically)
  1360. (09:05:29 AM) Babar: ok
  1361. (09:05:37 AM) Babar: where would I post my ideas and ratings?
  1362. (09:05:51 AM) Cheeseness: In this thread :)
  1363. (09:06:15 AM) Cheeseness: Ideas for the rating sytem itself in this one
  1364. (09:06:57 AM) Babar: ok :D
  1365. (09:07:04 AM) Babar: I like jf's rating :D
  1366. (09:07:39 AM) Cheeseness: heh :D
  1367. (09:08:49 AM) Cheeseness: Bit sad we didn't talk more about MI2's art
  1368. (09:09:06 AM) Cheeseness: IMO, it has some of the most interesting art of all the Monkey Island games
  1369. (09:09:44 AM) Cheeseness: MI3 is nicely stylised and well loved by many, but I'd say that MI2's is more intricate (and evokes a little more atmosphere for me)
  1370. (09:12:45 AM) Cheeseness: Well, it looks like the conversation has wound down. I'll get a log up in a bit
  1371. (09:13:32 AM) Cheeseness: Thanks to everybody for coming!
  1372. (09:13:41 AM) jfrisby: Thanks Cheese!
  1373. (09:13:46 AM) Cheeseness: Hope to see you all again next week when we play through Gravity Bone and 20 Flights of Loving! :D
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