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Protricity

julius2 op abuse #4

Protricity
Jun 14th, 2012
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  1. [18:26:07] <Prot> so basically the capitalists bare 100% of the responsibility
  2. [18:26:26] <JuanaRevolution> It's predatory
  3. [18:26:43] <julius2> Prot: not necessarily capitalists
  4. [18:26:54] <Prot> so when someone screwes someone else over with predatory encouragement, the victim is 100% helpless
  5. [18:26:54] <julius2> in Belgium the regime was neo-feudal of sorts
  6. [18:26:55] <Prot> is that it?
  7. [18:27:00] <julius2> but it existed within the capitalist system
  8. [18:27:16] <julius2> Prot: well, here's a good xample
  9. [18:27:25] <JuanaRevolution> With us, they're looking down the barrel of a gun.
  10. [18:27:26] <julius2> in New Zealand, the natives were hardly helpless
  11. [18:27:34] <julius2> they comprised of warlike tribes that had conquered the others
  12. [18:27:53] <julius2> they could muster thousands at the drop of a hat
  13. [18:28:03] <julius2> yet they were defeated by 11,000 British troops
  14. [18:28:07] <Prot> in NA, native americans were't innocent either
  15. [18:28:23] <julius2> because those British troops were well-trained, well-armed, well-supplies, and could fight all year long
  16. [18:28:32] <julius2> whereas the natives relied on local harvests
  17. [18:28:33] <julius2> *supplied
  18. [18:28:38] <julius2> Prot: so?
  19. [18:28:46] <julius2> you don't need to be perfect for conquering you to be wrong
  20. [18:28:50] <Prot> so the picture tends to always be complex
  21. [18:29:01] <julius2> the picture isn't complex
  22. [18:29:04] <Prot> never simple, like people want to insist it is
  23. [18:29:06] <julius2> stop justifyign imperialism
  24. [18:29:11] <Prot> ie capitalists caused this
  25. [18:29:13] <JuanaRevolution> Weren't inocent? We invaded them. We terrorized them. Same thing we did in Iraq and are doing in Afganhstan
  26. [18:29:22] <Prot> as illustrated by JuanaRevolution
  27. [18:29:26] <julius2> JuanaRevolution: it doesn't matter whether or not they were "innocent"
  28. [18:29:35] <julius2> and in any case
  29. [18:29:38] <julius2> the USA created Saddam Hussein
  30. [18:29:41] troy_cambridge [[email protected]] has joined #occupywallst
  31. [18:29:55] <julius2> first it helped him to power and allied with him and gave him aid
  32. [18:29:55] <Prot> so the USA is 100% responsible for Hussein, is that it?
  33. [18:30:00] <julius2> and encouraged him to invade Iran
  34. [18:30:30] <JuanaRevolution> So our treatment of native americans was ok since they were not innocent?
  35. [18:30:35] <julius2> then when he invaded Kuwait the USA did an about-face, suddenly paid attention to all the crimes he had committed using their resources
  36. [18:30:41] <Prot> JuanaRevolution: is that what you're trying to say?
  37. [18:30:50] <Prot> i can't imagine why you'd think that
  38. [18:30:53] <julius2> and suddenly, Saddam Hussein was evil all of a sudden
  39. [18:30:55] <JuanaRevolution> That is what you said.
  40. [18:30:56] <julius2> but this is the funny thing
  41. [18:30:56] <ParahSailin> release yourself from the burden of justifying the american regime, it will really help your emotional wellbeing
  42. [18:31:00] <Prot> JuanaRevolution: show me where I said that
  43. [18:31:03] <Prot> i dare you
  44. [18:31:06] <julius2> not long after that, there was a revolt in Iraq against Hussein
  45. [18:31:11] <julius2> Prot: do you know what the USA did?
  46. [18:31:16] <Prot> in which topic
  47. [18:31:23] <julius2> 21:32 < julius2@> not long after that, there was a revolt in Iraq against Hussein
  48. [18:31:36] <Prot> you mean first gulf war?
  49. [18:31:45] <julius2> after the first gulf war
  50. [18:31:53] <JuanaRevolution> <Prot> in NA, native americans were't innocent either
  51. [18:32:03] <Prot> defended the Kuwaities, promoted the uprising but didn't help
  52. [18:32:08] <Prot> let the kurds get slaughtered
  53. [18:32:21] <Prot> JuanaRevolution: good luck trying to match those statements
  54. [18:32:31] <Prot> you always were so petty with your projections
  55. [18:32:38] <julius2> Prot: these were in 1991
  56. [18:32:52] <Prot> julius2: yep
  57. [18:33:05] <julius2> prot: all of a sudden, the USA made the decision that the Hussein regime, even with Hussein, was preferable to a democratic Iraq
  58. [18:33:14] <julius2> so it supported Hussein against the revolt
  59. [18:33:21] <julius2> then it went back to demonizing him once the revolt was crushed
  60. [18:33:28] <Prot> more appropriately they did nothing, which served Hussein's purposes
  61. [18:33:32] <julius2> then it invaded in 2003, deposed Hussein
  62. [18:33:38] <julius2> then put his regime back in power
  63. [18:33:49] <julius2> in every case the USA acted entirely in its own interests
  64. [18:33:52] <Prot> republicans man. they have quite a history
  65. [18:33:52] <julius2> hardly for "democracy"
  66. [18:34:01] <julius2> in fact, you could characterize the USA's invovlement as entirely a detriment to Iraq
  67. [18:34:22] <julius2> the same was true in Vietnam
  68. [18:34:28] <Prot> i'd say the current democracy outcome in iraq was basically an unintended consequence of the 2nd gulf war
  69. [18:34:33] <Prot> it wasn't the advertised purpose
  70. [18:34:36] <julius2> "democracy outcome"
  71. [18:34:40] <julius2> Iraq isn't democratic
  72. [18:34:49] <Prot> so, do you want to just stop debating?
  73. [18:34:55] <Prot> i'm not going to discuss shit with you if you're going to keep doing that
  74. [18:34:55] <julius2> why?
  75. [18:35:04] <Prot> its really just distracting at this point
  76. [18:35:08] <julius2> because you are being shown to be an obnoxious apologist for imperialism?
  77. [18:35:16] <Prot> orly, hows that?
  78. [18:35:17] <julius2> Iraq was simply put under US domination
  79. [18:35:18] <julius2> that's all
  80. [18:35:23] <Prot> what of it?
  81. [18:35:30] <julius2> you tried to fucking justify colonialism in nroth america
  82. [18:35:32] <julius2> *north
  83. [18:35:34] <Prot> i did what now?
  84. [18:35:40] <Prot> you and JuanaRevolution. all day long. projection, projection
  85. [18:35:45] <julius2> "they weren't innocent"
  86. [18:35:46] <Prot> show me where I said any of this
  87. [18:35:47] <julius2> eh
  88. [18:35:50] <Prot> yes, they weren't. what of it?
  89. [18:35:54] julius2 [~julius@unaffiliated/julius2] has set mode +b *!*prot@*.ph.ph.cox.net
  90. [18:35:54] You have been kicked from #occupywallst by julius2 [~julius@unaffiliated/julius2]: right here
  91.  
  92.  
  93. private:
  94.  
  95. [18:36:32] <julius2> and you're an imperialist shit
  96. [18:36:34] <julius2> now fuck off
  97. [18:36:37] <Prot> thats you projecting
  98. [18:36:41] <Prot> i said nothing like that, and you know it
  99. [18:36:44] <Prot> you just don't like me
  100. [18:38:16] <Prot> looks like this is your 4th
  101. [18:38:16] <Prot> http://pastebin.com/Mfv5fjWE
  102. [18:39:13] <julius2> and I'll ban you again if you engage in imperialistic victim-blaming shit
  103. [18:39:46] <Prot> so thats your justification?
  104. [18:39:53] <Prot> project someting I'm not saying at all
  105. [18:39:56] <Prot> then ban me for what I didn't say?
  106. [18:40:09] <Prot> and then threaten to ban me in the future for a position I never plan to take?
  107. [18:41:06] <julius2> I don't doubt you will take it
  108. [18:41:27] <Prot> and thats your justification for constantly banning me
  109. [18:41:37] <Prot> because you're really sure I'll take a position I have no interest in taking?
  110. [18:41:40] <Prot> that I never took in the past?
  111. [18:41:49] <Prot> but somehow you're absolutely sure I will? so you're going to preemptively ban me?
  112. [18:41:56] <Prot> and you think you're a just op?
  113. [18:42:00] <julius2> no
  114. [18:42:06] <julius2> I'll wait for you to say it and ban you when you say it
  115. [18:42:11] <Prot> never said it
  116. [18:42:13] <julius2> if you don'tsay it, then you can stay
  117. [18:42:18] <Prot> I said "its always more complex than that"
  118. [18:42:21] <Prot> and you knwo thats what I said
  119. [18:42:26] <julius2> but if you keep acting like a shit and justifyign imperialism
  120. [18:42:26] <Prot> you want to pretend I said something else entirely
  121. [18:42:33] <Prot> you want to pretend I justified something
  122. [18:42:35] <julius2> you were oozing yoru way into apologizing for western imperialism
  123. [18:42:41] <julius2> there is no justification for western imperialism
  124. [18:42:46] <Prot> when I was making a point that justification isn't going to work when the issue is complex
  125. [18:42:50] <julius2> I will not tolerate someone trying to make one
  126. [18:42:52] <Prot> ah, there you go again
  127. [18:43:00] <Prot> I was "about to" defend imperialism
  128. [18:43:05] <Prot> and thats why you banned me right?
  129. [18:43:10] <Prot> cause I was about to take that position
  130. [18:43:16] <Prot> not that I had taken it, or anything of that nature
  131. [18:43:21] <Prot> in fact I was arguing well against it
  132. [18:43:25] <Prot> but you're really damn sure I was about to take it
  133. [18:43:29] <Prot> so you banned me, just to be safe
  134. [18:43:32] <julius2> no, you weren't about to
  135. [18:43:32] <Prot> and you think you're a fair op
  136. [18:43:33] <julius2> you were
  137. [18:43:36] <Prot> show me the line
  138. [18:43:40] <Prot> i dare you
  139. [18:43:47] <julius2> it isn't a line and you know it fucking isn't
  140. [18:43:50] <julius2> it's a line of conversation
  141. [18:43:52] <Prot> oh, so theres no proof either
  142. [18:43:59] <Prot> its just 'a feeling I have'
  143. [18:44:07] <julius2> first you said it was more compelx than that, then you said the natives "eren't innocent", then you criticied the africans
  144. [18:44:17] <Prot> I criticized africans?
  145. [18:44:21] <Prot> i never said anything about africans
  146. [18:44:25] <julius2> and then you started harassing JuanaRevolution with our shit
  147. [18:44:28] <julius2> *your
  148. [18:44:36] <Prot> I was making the point that you can't blame one side of a conflict, that its usually COMPLEX
  149. [18:44:40] <Prot> not justifying anything
  150. [18:44:41] <Prot> and you know it
  151. [18:44:47] <Prot> you know exactly what I'm talking about
  152. [18:45:25] <julius2> I'm done with this
  153. [18:45:34] <Prot> i'll add this to the log
  154. [18:45:36] <Prot> hope you don't mind
  155. [18:45:37] <julius2> 21:45 < Prot> I was making the point that you can't blame one side of a conflict, that its usually COMPLEX
  156. [18:45:42] <julius2> yes you can
  157. [18:45:43] <Prot> exactly :)
  158. [18:45:51] <Prot> fine. we disagree
  159. [18:45:53] <julius2> you so fucking can
  160. [18:45:53] <Prot> so what was the ban about?
  161. [18:45:58] <Prot> great, thats your opinion
  162. [18:46:00] <Prot> i have my opinion
  163. [18:46:00] <julius2> and saying otherwise is justifying imperialism
  164. [18:46:06] <Prot> nope, thats your opinion too
  165. [18:46:09] <Prot> i disagree again
  166. [18:46:13] <Prot> i have no interest in justifying anyone
  167. [18:46:20] <Prot> my whole point is that you CANT justify it
  168. [18:46:21] <Prot> CANT
  169. [18:46:25] <Prot> as in CANNOT
  170. [18:46:31] <Prot> and you know thats my point
  171. [18:46:38] <Prot> you just want to believe I said something I didnt
  172. [18:46:51] <Prot> retroactively justify the 4th time you banned me for my opinion
  173. [18:47:01] <Prot> thats who you are dude
  174. [18:47:06] <Prot> thats what you are
  175. [18:47:07] <Prot> a terrible op
  176. [18:47:13] <Prot> a facist op
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