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What if Vileplume was in GSC NU?

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Aug 9th, 2023
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  1. -Mention how there's a group of pokemon who are stuck in UU when they are completely awful in UU
  2. -Mention how some of them like Raichu and Golduck were in NU yet were far too strong for UU
  3. -Mention how some of them like Arcanine, Kadabra, Pikachu, and Vileplume were not that great in UU yet somehow ranked highly enough on ppl's VRs to not drop
  4. -Mention how the UU VR was made pre-agility pass ban and thus, Girafarig is now stuck in UU despite not being that great without agility pass
  5.  
  6. -Mention how Arcanine, Girafarig, and Kadabra are extremely obviously broken in NU and will never be tested, while Pikachu may be balanced yet would overall be a strictly negative addition to the tier.
  7.  
  8. -Introduce the topic of Vileplume.
  9.  
  10. --------------------------------------------------------------
  11. Why it may be balanced and be a positive addition to the tier
  12. --------------------------------------------------------------
  13. -It struggles with two of the best pokemon in the tier: Xatu and Weezing
  14.  
  15. -It helps with two dangerous water types in the tier: Octillery and Chinchou
  16. -While Chinchou would likely drop out of the tier completely, Octillery would still be a force in the tier, as it can simply switch over to Ice Beam for Vileplume
  17.  
  18. -Mention how some players like Mr.Soup have been complaining about Chinchou's presence in the tier, being difficult to switch into outside of specific Rest Talk Normal types and Gloom. Mention how they think that Vileplume would make a lot of other builds possible as a result
  19.  
  20. -Introduce the topic of Dewgong
  21.  
  22. ----------------------------------------------
  23. Why it may be a negative addition to the tier
  24. ----------------------------------------------
  25. -Vileplume and Dewgong has the potential to be an overpowered combo
  26.  
  27. -Many of Dewgong's checks either become significantly worse, or completely unviable in the wake of Vileplume
  28. (i.e Primeape, Hitmonlee, Porygon, Chinchou)
  29.  
  30. -Many of the traditional ways of punishing Dewgong, Normal types (and especially Rest Talk Stantler), become even more relied on in the wake of Vileplume when so many of its alternate checks become significantly worse
  31.  
  32. -Mention how being weak to Dewgong is a massive uphill battle
  33.  
  34. -Mention how Rest Talk Stantler might not even be enough due to the potential Vileplume has to set up Curses on it while it's Resting
  35.  
  36. -Mention how the two combined have a very good matchup against the top threats of the tier, like Xatu, Weezing, and Dugtrio, making them quite difficult to break.
  37.  
  38. -Introduce the topic of Sunny Day Ninetales
  39.  
  40. ---------------------------
  41. Its dynamic with Ninetales
  42. ---------------------------
  43. -Mention how Ninetales would absolutely adore this new meta.
  44. -Octillery and Dugtrio get worse, Dewgong gets better, and a grass type becomes a top threat. Aka, all things that would make Sunny Day Ninetales go berserk in this meta
  45.  
  46. -Mention how Sunny Day Ninetales becomes one of the few ways of breaking the Vileplume + Dewgong core reliably.
  47.  
  48. -Mention Magmar and Growth Pass Flareon as well, as they becomes an even more threatening breaker in this meta
  49.  
  50. -Mention how this introduces a unique Fire-Water-Grass dynamic to NU, in a similar vein to DPP UU
  51.  
  52. --------------------------------------------------
  53. The impact of Vileplume on other pokes in the meta
  54. --------------------------------------------------
  55. -Xatu and Weezing would both love the rise of a poke they're tasked with beating but hate the rise of Ninetales and Dewgong
  56.  
  57. -Fearow would love this meta as well
  58.  
  59. -Rock types love more Ninetales and Fearow and more Dewgong and less Oct, and Graveler would love supporting a Pineco weak threat in Vileplume
  60.  
  61. -Pineco becomes even more important in this meta, thanks to its decently good setup opportunity vs Vileplume
  62.  
  63. -Dugtrio likely gets a decent bit worse but with fire types becoming better, it would still have a place in the meta
  64.  
  65. ------------------
  66. Vileplume's Flaws
  67. ------------------
  68. -Moonlight only has 8 pp meaning that it can easily be stalled out by Rest Talkers, especially normal types
  69.  
  70. -It's very vulnerable to paralysis due to it using Moonlight and not Rest + Sleep Talk
  71.  
  72. -It struggles to drop its 4th moveslot, as giving up a grass move means giving opportunities to Ice Beam Octillery, Dewgong, and rock types
  73.  
  74. -It struggles to hit Weezing outside of Stun Spore
  75.  
  76. -It can give Pineco opportunities to set up Spikes
  77.  
  78. ---------------
  79. Final Thoughts
  80. ---------------
  81. -None of the S-A ranks except maybe Dugtrio fall off significantly with Vileplume
  82.  
  83. -The tier may get more slower paced with Vileplume in the tier although the likes of Fearow, Magmar, Rest Talk Stantler, Curse Wigglytuff, and Baton Pass Flareon might prevent that
  84.  
  85. -Offense will have to adapt but it will still likely be extremely good even with Vileplume in the tier
  86.  
  87. -Even if it ends up an overall negative for GSC NU, it might not be significant enough to be noticeable by most
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