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Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by llamamiah View Post
    post
    hey, guy, you're seeming a little hostile here! (: creativity is fine and dandy, and if you and your friend want to play from your own 'verse, that's awesome! i hope your adventure goes awesomely! if that's the case, though, you might want to make a note of that in your post-- that you are intentionally not following the known 'rules' or norms of s***B, i mean. you've got an interesting enough idea here and i'd hate to suggest removing it or posting it elsewhere, but if receiving criticism on it is going to bother you, you might not want to post it in a format like this where anyone can read and respond to it. just a heads-up!

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by maya View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by llamamiah View Post
    post
    hey, guy, you're seeming a little hostile here! (: creativity is fine and dandy, and if you and your friend want to play from your own 'verse, that's awesome! i hope your adventure goes awesomely! if that's the case, though, you might want to make a note of that in your post-- that you are intentionally not following the known 'rules' or norms of s***B, i mean. you've got an interesting enough idea here and i'd hate to suggest removing it or posting it elsewhere, but if receiving criticism on it is going to bother you, you might not want to post it in a format like this where anyone can read and respond to it. just a heads-up!
    I'm sorry, but this isn't a standpoint supported by the forum's rules. While you guys have the "Fantroll Critique Thread", soliciting criticism is of an "opt-in" nature. Apologies if there's been some kind of misunderstanding, but criticising other people's creative endeavours if they haven't asked for it is rude, and something us mods don't like seeing. Enforcing some kind of "standard" or "canonicity" is draconian (and hence why we place no restrictions on plot/theme/creativity/derivativeness in Forum Adventures) and not a culture that'll be tolerated for much longer in this subforum.

    Frankly, people who attempt to shit on other people's right to creative expression, even if they think they're doing the recipient of the "criticism" a service, will more often be seen in the wrong by moderators. If you don't like something, please express common courtesy and refrain from commenting unless critique has been explicitly asked for. It's that common courtesy that has generally prevented criticisms on the moderators' part from tackling this issue, but I feel like it should be said now. Despite your wishes for some kind of utopic thread full of canon-hugging trolls, it is a free country.

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Giving criticism whether or not they have asked for it is never rude, unless said criticism is "YOUR TROLL SUCKS AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD". Criticism isn't there because the criticiser doesn't like you, or because they're angry at your troll, it's because they see an oppurtunuity for your character to be better, or because there's something with it that needs to be fixed.

    Criticism is there to help you. If you listen to criticism you can make a mundane character something entertaining and unique, or an already unique character into something even better.

    The point of the criticism thread isn't so that nobody gets crit unless they post in there, it's so that we can give crit to people who really want it but haven't been noticed, and reduce the amount of chatter in this thread (oopsmybad).

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Schazer View Post
    I'm sorry, but this isn't a standpoint supported by the forum's rules. While you guys have the "Fantroll Critique Thread", soliciting criticism is of an "opt-in" nature. Apologies if there's been some kind of misunderstanding, but criticising other people's creative endeavours if they haven't asked for it is rude, and something us mods don't like seeing. Enforcing some kind of "standard" or "canonicity" is draconian (and hence why we place no restrictions on plot/theme/creativity/derivativeness in Forum Adventures) and not a culture that'll be tolerated for much longer in this subforum.

    Frankly, people who attempt to shit on other people's right to creative expression, even if they think they're doing the recipient of the "criticism" a service, will more often be seen in the wrong by moderators. If you don't like something, please express common courtesy and refrain from commenting unless critique has been explicitly asked for. It's that common courtesy that has generally prevented criticisms on the moderators' part from tackling this issue, but I feel like it should be said now. Despite your wishes for some kind of utopic thread full of canon-hugging trolls, it is a free country.
    thank you for the clarification, and i apologize for misunderstanding.

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by scintillatingMoniker View Post
    Giving criticism whether or not they have asked for it is never rude, unless said criticism is "YOUR TROLL SUCKS AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD". Criticism isn't there because the criticiser doesn't like you, or because they're angry at your troll, it's because they see an oppurtunuity for your character to be better, or because there's something with it that needs to be fixed.

    Criticism is there to help you. If you listen to criticism you can make a mundane character something entertaining and unique, or an already unique character into something even better.

    The point of the criticism thread isn't so that nobody gets crit unless they post in there, it's so that we can give crit to people who really want it but haven't been noticed, and reduce the amount of chatter in this thread (oopsmybad).
    Again, you're mistaken. Making a bad fantroll is not against the rules. Being dismissive/rude/critical about someone else's creative endeavours is. "Respect" is a rule, "Adhere to established canon in your art, writing, and character creation" is not.

    The other issue is that while criticism is helpful when delivered dispassionately and with an actual wish on the part of the critiquer to the critiquee to see an improvement, but unfortunately it's very idealistic. More often than not, it devolves to too-strong opinions and nastiness. Which is why we say "don't critique unless you're in a designated area; it's rude."

    This appears to mostly be a misunderstanding as to what is acceptable on the forums. You still have free reign to (politely) reject character applications from an RP you're running - hell, if you absolutely cannot hold your tongue you may point out a character's traits that would be difficult to accommodate in a canonically adherent RP. On the other hand, someone did point out recently that not a lot of s___B games are strictly vanilla, so maybe sticking to canon isn't the be-all-and-end-all.

    Really though, this is just a misunderstanding of the rules that I figured I may as well be proactive about in correcting. If you're tossing about unsolicited criticism, you're in the wrong as per this moderator's interpretation of the forum's rules.

    I'm aware that it's not very pleasant for me to only be stepping into this forum just to discipline, but fact of the matter is your "assigned" moderator isn't really here lately.

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Schazer View Post
    Again, you're mistaken. Making a bad fantroll is not against the rules. Being dismissive/rude/critical about someone else's creative endeavours is. "Respect" is a rule, "Adhere to established canon in your art, writing, and character creation" is not.

    The other issue is that while criticism is helpful when delivered dispassionately and with an actual wish on the part of the critiquer to the critiquee to see an improvement, but unfortunately it's very idealistic. More often than not, it devolves to too-strong opinions and nastiness. Which is why we say "don't critique unless you're in a designated area; it's rude."

    This appears to mostly be a misunderstanding as to what is acceptable on the forums. You still have free reign to (politely) reject character applications from an RP you're running - hell, if you absolutely cannot hold your tongue you may point out a character's traits that would be difficult to accommodate in a canonically adherent RP. On the other hand, someone did point out recently that not a lot of s___B games are strictly vanilla, so maybe sticking to canon isn't the be-all-and-end-all.

    Really though, this is just a misunderstanding of the rules that I figured I may as well be proactive about in correcting. If you're tossing about unsolicited criticism, you're in the wrong as per this moderator's interpretation of the forum's rules.

    I'm aware that it's not very pleasant for me to only be stepping into this forum just to discipline, but fact of the matter is your "assigned" moderator isn't really here lately.
    I don't see how a respectful, polite critique breaks the "respect yes" rule, which is what I assume you're referring to here? I do agree a hostile critique is entirely against that rule, but a polite critique is perfectly respectful and in fact, in my opinion, shows a greater respect than letting someone run around with something that could be improved.

    Whoops, bad phrasing. Not letting. I meant in the sense of pointing out something, rather than trying to enforce opinions.

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Tluthal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Schazer View Post
    Doop
    I don't see how a respectful, polite critique breaks the "respect yes" rule, which is what I assume you're referring to here? I do agree a hostile critique is entirely against that rule, but a polite critique is perfectly respectful and in fact, in my opinion, shows a greater respect than letting someone run around with something that could be improved.

    Whoops, bad phrasing. Not letting. I meant in the sense of pointing out something, rather than trying to enforce opinions.
    Again, all great intentions, but there's still an inherent disrespect when you pop up unannounced and say how someone's done something wrong, in your own opinion. Not to mention the few individuals in this subforum who take a proverbial mile when we offer an inch, and enforce all manner of expectations and restrictions because it's their "right" way of making fantrolls.

    There is no "right" way, just everyone's opinions - and your fellow forumites' opinions are just as valid as your own. Unsolicited critique comes with the assumption that your opinions are more valid.

    On the other hand, it's merely my opinion that unsolicited opinions are rude, so I take what I say with a pinch of salt.

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Quote Originally Posted by Schazer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tluthal View Post
    snip
    Again, all great intentions, but there's still an inherent disrespect when you pop up unannounced and say how someone's done something wrong, in your own opinion. Not to mention the few individuals in this subforum who take a proverbial mile when we offer an inch, and enforce all manner of expectations and restrictions because it's their "right" way of making fantrolls.

    There is no "right" way, just everyone's opinions - and your fellow forumites' opinions are just as valid as your own. Unsolicited critique comes with the assumption that your opinions are more valid.

    On the other hand, it's merely my opinion that unsolicited opinions are rude, so I take what I say with a pinch of salt.
    Yes, but pointing out a way to improve in a polite tone is not being rude, unless someone has specifically requested no critique. When putting something out into a public space, it's going to be bombarded by opinions. Just like an artist posting to a public gallery, one specifically asks for no criticism, one is implicitly asking for it.

    In other words, if you put something out on a public forum, it is going to be judged, and unless specifically asked to there are people who will want to offer suggestions or share their opinions, and that is how most people learn.

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Canon Wank often poisonous, guys. So too, elitism. Judging a profile based solely on how well it adheres to and can be seamlessly slotted into the existing background of the known story of Alternia is a little bit like assuming a character's sole worth is in how little they resemble a Mary Sue. Complete with arguments about what is and isn't a Mary Sue, and reminders about how the term has often been used to shame and discriminate against things going against someone's personal taste.

    Roleplay is fun, right? Making characters is fun, right?

    Why does someone else's fun lessen your own? Is their fun Bad and Wrong?

    If you wouldn't poist it on the forums about fan-art, fan-fiction, an amateur voice-acting clip or a forum adventure, don't say it about a trollsona.

    As a final note, as Schazer aptly put it, I've been awfully absentee lately. While I expressed interest in self-assigning myself to this forum and keeping an eye on it when it was flying under the radar, the demands of life have changed such that I can't stalk y'all 24/7 anymore. The moderator or admin that steps in to arbitrate an issue -is- the one in charge that needs to be heeded, not the absent aunt Zuki who gave you candy that one time. If you've got a problem with how a mod handles an issue, PMs and reported posts are appropriate, will be seen, and will be discussed by the rest of the modmin staff.

Re: TROLLSLUM 8: H8rs gonna h8!!!!!!!!: Trolls Still Don't Like Fashion, By The Way

    Thanks, Zuki. And for clarification, as a moderator, I'm declaring the following a rule so there's no ambiguity.

    Unsolicited rude criticism breaks the Respect rule, and you will be infracted for it.

    I'm not going to bust in the head of every trollslummer who has to be disagreeable about other players' trolls, but use your best judgement. If I consider it rude, I will infract it, and will continue to do so until however many troublemakers that make your minority learn to be pleasant.