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[12:01:49] Channel topic is:  Welcome to blenderpython, http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Py/Sharing , http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Extensions:Py/Scripts , https://projects.blender.org/projects/bf-extensions/
[12:01:49] Topic was set by stiv!~steve@blender/coder/stivs on Δευ 15. Μαρ 17:22:50 2010
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[12:01:56] Channel was created at Τετ 25. Νοε 15:24:23 2009
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[12:22:55] <rking> kilon: Were you in on that whole BlenderArtists.org "Python should have Nodes" thread?
[12:24:14] <kilon> rking: i post alot, but yeah I have been talking with lukas_t and his custom nodes features that is planned for future releases
[12:24:30] <kilon> he seems to be close to completion
[12:24:41] <rking> Wait, what is his project?
[12:24:59] <rking> kilon: This was the thread: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?247968-Random-thought-nodal-python&highlight=python+nodes
[12:25:02] <kilon> that will open the door to addons that will give python developers the abilities to use nodes for anything
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[12:27:32] <rking> I was thinking a cool set of keybindings for a graphical programming interface would be actual code. Like you type if bpy.data.objects['Cube'].location.x < 20: ... then it creates the nodes that represent that block.
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[12:28:13] <rking> And vice-versa, being able to view the nodes as code -- complete round-tripping for the best of both worlds.
[12:28:44] <kilon> rking: https://www.gitorious.org/~lukastoenne/blenderprojects/blender-lukastoenne/commits/custom_nodes
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[12:29:53] <rking> Ahh, cool, thanks.
[12:30:26] <kilon> the visual programming language i am working is abit like custom nodes but pack the full power of lisp programming which means that the user can define his own syntax and workflows
[12:31:25] <kilon> it could eventually be integrated with blender , probably not inside blender but it could be made to compile to python code and refactor all blender python libraries, but still we are very long way from there
[12:32:41] <rking> If it could compile to python then why not take the additonal step of putting it inside Blender?
[12:32:47] <kilon> but when we do it, it going to explode the abilites of the blender user
[12:33:20] <kilon> well a very good reason
[12:33:25] <kilon> because its python and not lisp
[12:33:26] <kilon> :D
[12:34:11] <kilon> lisp come with an awesome debugger , that everytime you screw up it does not crash it ask you what to do next, give you full bactrace and even allows you to change your code before resuming
[12:34:24] <rking> Ahh, I see.
[12:35:08] <kilon> this is the sole reason I am interested in lisp, i think user are going to love the fact that they cant crash blender with their scripts or get their scripts exited and trying to figure out what went wrong
[12:35:26] <lukas_t> kilon, rking: there are a few things still to be done, but it's well underway
[12:35:31] <kilon> but as i said, there is tons of works before we get there
[12:35:46] <kilon> lukas_t: hey thanks for all the effort i can wait as much as it takes
[12:35:57] <lukas_t> custom data storage is the biggest headache atm
[12:36:09] <rking> It's kind of weird how the old languages like Lisp and Smalltalk had such amazing blending between "programming" and "using", while so-called modern languages are slowly creeping in this direction.
[12:36:14] <lukas_t> how to allocated data in python and store it in blend files
[12:36:31] <rking> lukas_t: You can't slap things into custom properties?
[12:37:08] <lukas_t> rking: yes that will be the initial solution, but it still doesn't allow pointers and structure such as color ramps and curves
[12:37:18] <kilon> rking: its beyond the realm of idiocy, but that is what the world we live it , where hip is above progress
[12:37:23] <lukas_t> general problem with id properties though, not specific to custom nodes
[12:37:28] <kilon> its not just coding its everywhere
[12:37:42] <rking> lukas_t: Have you ever looked at YAML?
[12:37:52] <kilon> custom data being ?
[12:38:05] <kilon> like python dictionaries ?
[12:38:37] <lukas_t> rking: no, what would be the benefit for blender?
[12:39:09] <rking> YAML is a human-readable (text-only) serialization language. It is most human-readable when you're dealing with dicts/lists/scalars -- but it has features to support objects and references.
[12:40:08] <rking> lukas_t: So basically I'm wondering if you can flatten your objects to strings using YAML then put them on Custom Properties
[12:40:24] <lukas_t> kilon: any data associated with a node, e.g. radius in a blur node, pointer to an object, a name string, etc.
[12:40:39] <kilon> have dont the same with json and eval rking if i am understanding what you are saying
[12:40:52] <kilon> *have done the same...
[12:40:57] <rking> kilon: Yes, you are very much so. Only I think JSON is simpler.
[12:41:28] <kilon> i used json to serialise blender python types / properties to a string
[12:41:31] <rking> Does it have references?
[12:41:52] <lukas_t> there are a number of options i think, but in the end it will have to be integrated into existing blender features (id properties)
[12:42:00] <kilon> and then stored that string into a string property in a blender scene to be saved with my blendfile
[12:42:49] <lukas_t> you also want to be able to use blender ui after all, it's not purely internal data
[12:43:20] <lukas_t> so blender has to understand it too
[12:43:46] <lukas_t> and not sure this would work well for pointers to objects, etc.
[12:44:28] <kilon> yeah thats c stuff, you can mess with the same easy as with python objects
[12:44:33] <kilon> *you cant
[12:46:20] <kilon> but i dont know how to handle c well so
[12:46:30] <kilon> it may be just my ignorance