Darg's Judgements: Mik vs. Verlux

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Mik's R1

* Opens establishing that between Cap and Palp his team has perfect communication and a level of tactical genius and planning that is well beyond the capacity of the opposing team, and these plans would develop nearly immediately. Wax + Mannequin can keep up on the uptake since they work as team players. Palp also has meme senses.

* Continues with ranged advantages. Mostly focuses on Palp, and how he force-cucks most of the opposing team because they need to breath, and can also zap multiple members of the enemy team at once.
* All those who chose to oppose Cap's shield must yield.
* Wax shoots good, and steelpushing fucks over the use of most weapons.

* Defensive ranged advantages includes Wax's steel bubble, which memes on bullets, and wax sensing sources of metal the moment he starts burning steel, Palp still has meme senses.
* Mannequin has good enough piercing resist to not care about the bullets the enemy team uses, Cap and Niko both have good enough aimdodging/blocking to not care about guns at a range.

* Lightsabers make Palp impossible to approach in CQC for the entire opposing team
* Cap and Niko both outclass the opposing team in CQC skill and strength, with Cap fighting favorably even in disadvantaged situations
* Wax can steelpush opponents back into range on the flip of a dime
* Mannequin has good piercing + spins blades around himself similar to Palp to keep CQC from being an issue

* Jason's durability is bad and he consumes damage for breakfast.
* Pulls out argument Ver previously made against Satou applying to this battlefield. Each member of Mik's team asserts dominance in strength (lol, didn't expect that for Wax, too)
* Punisher/Roland are weak and die fast

Ver's R1

* Jason doesn't care about eating damage, particularly the damage that the opposing team does at a range
* Jason closes distance immediately, has good speed and teleportation
* Jason's strength > any of the opposing team's durability, one-shots everyone
* Jason has meme senses

* Roland has better speed than the entire opposing team via quickdrawing and puts a bullet in each at the start of the match, goes into the numbers behind why this happens even at the given range.
* Everyone but Mannequin dies to bullets, so this kills or cripples the entire opposing team
* Roland has meme senses, and fucks over with telepathy users, arguing this would fuck over Palp's meme senses.

* Satou doesn't die when he's killed, and can suicide-bomb the opposing team after not-dying.
* Reflexes and intelligence means he can pull of at least one suicide run.
* Satou's stand mogs the opposing team, and is invisible to them, and is fast/strong enough to fuck over the opposing team at the given range.

* Predator has meme senses. He starts invisible, which the opposing team can't counter (?)
* Predator stealths good, and has weapons that mog the opposing team, so he can stealth kill problematic members of the enemy team.

* Punisher has good speed on the quickdraw and good enough accuracy to mow down the opposing team at a distance.
* His suit gives a stiff middle finger to the opposing team's ranged options.
* Continues to hold that middle finger up to Palpatine's sensing abilties.

* Palp has zero relevant speed feats, entire team barring Roland resists electricity.
* Cap dies to bullets (?)
* Niko can't do his bullet-blocking because he fails the speed check + too many bullets for him to do this. Dies to (enough) bullets)
* Wax dies to bullets, bad speed.
* Mannequin is the only survivor of the ranged fight, gets mogged due to being outnumbered by people who mog him in CQC.

Mik's R2

* Palp's meme senses aren't purely telepathic and work on inanimate objects/mindless robots, eloborates on how much of a meme his senses are, and explains that other Force users can cuck his senses should Verlux bring up antifeats.
* Points out Verlux didn't bring up a counter to force chocking at range and lightsabers for CQC, Palp is fast, and his lightning is > the electricity resistance feats brought up for Ver's team.

* Brings up Verlux being overly dismissive with Cap based on a single scan, and explains that the scan has circumstances that don't apply to this fight very throughroughly. Also brings up Cap's equipment, which are in the match but weren't in that scan.
* Compares Cap directly to Punisher, who Verlux has argued resilience for in his R1, citing that by the same arguments Cap survives the barrage. Cites how good these feats are.

* Verlux's argument of a quickdraw at the start of battle doesn't happen due to the massive distance between the two teams and the walls, objects, etc between them. Roland's quickdraw speed therefore doesn't matter.
* Steel Bubble gives the middle finger to accuracy, and Wax can use the bullets fired at him and the guns Roland/etc are using against them.

* Verlux didn't explicitly go over how Mannequin dies, and the possible arguments for how he goes down based on Verlux's points don't make sense considering he farts toxic gas and goes Beyblade with good piercing in CQC.
* The argument that Satou suicide bombs is actually a liability for Verlux's team, since Wax/Palp can prematurely set of his explosives.

* Ver didn't sufficiently prove how Niko gets downed at a range, and he mogs Verlux's team's CQC fighters through superior speed and physical strength.

* Jason's resilience doesn't matter if he's decapitated or gibbed.
* Travel speed doesn't matter when his opponents have better reactions feats such as Cap and Palp. He also eats damage for breakfast, again.

* Reiterates how the setting makes Verlux's wincon implausible/impossible at the start of the fight. Palp/Wax don't care about these barriers so they mog Roland and Punisher at a distance. Gives examples of Palp using this vs. muggles and when he's serious. Counterexamples of him not immediately using it are of force abilities he doesn't have in this fight.
* Wax gives the middle finger to their metal weapons at a range, and they're useless in the fight without weaponry.

* Satou not-dying doesn't prevent him from being knocked out, and Mik's team doesn't purely use lethal attack methods.
* Brings up an argument Verlux used himself for the ghost being shitty and able-to-be-detected via thoughts/emotions.

* Invisibility sucks when > half the opposing team doesn't need to look at him to see him.
* Palp deflects energy attacks, Cap has his shield, and Mannequin has good heat resistance, so the plasmacaster doesn't mean anything.

* Explains and cites how every single member of Verlux's team is shit at working as, well, a team.
* Explains and cites how every single member of Mik's own team are capable of working well with others, two of which having meme strategic/precognitive ability.

* Verlux's wincon is primarily based on bullets + accuracy, and since the match doesn't start at LOS Wax/Palp neuters that strategy via sensing + disarming the enemy team or just killing them via steelpushing.
* Reiterates meme senses from Wax/Palp.

* Palp can give one of his lightsabers to Cap, making them both extremely deadly for the opposing team, Wax can incapaciate through binding, Force Chocking can make someone vulnerable by keeping them in the air, etc. etc.

Ver's R2

* Palp lifting people in the air via force chocking is restricted via stipulations and doesn't happen. Claims that Palp consistently chooses to enter in melee or go zapp with weak force users rather than chock them.
* Palp still dies to gun
* Palp can't communicate with his team because they aren't Force sensitive (?), meme strategy doesn't happen
* AOE lightning is a gameplay thing, and even then it requires buildup and his opponents getting into position for him.

* Meme tactics doesn't matter if Cap is killed
* Cap throws his shield, Roland/Punisher shoots Cap's shield out of the air before it hits them, Jason/Satou don't care about it hitting them, Predator has stealth
* Cap needs to throw his shield and bunker behind it to do what Mik claims he does, brings up Cap's antifeat again.

* Niko's speed = bad
* Reiterates that bullet-deflection requires angle-reading that won't happen doe to bad speed.
* What Niko pulled wouldn't work on significantly more projectiles.

* Wax requires time to scan, and time to react to the information he's given. Wax's speed is bad, Wax dies to gun.
* Steel Bubble isn't perfect and still requires setup on Wax's part, Wax still dies to gun.
* Wax doesn't steelpush at the distance Mik is arguing for him to at the start of the round.

* Mannequin's bullet dodging is bad, the speedsters he scales to are featless, and he isn't relevant until after the quickdraw.
* As per Mik's own arguments, the chains that keep Mannequin's body together are featless and get blasted apart by bullets.
* Mannequin has shitty blunt force durability, so he still gets punched to death by Jason.

* Jason's stealth / teleportation is a meme and needs to be argued against.
* Palp's intent reading wouldn't / isn't proven to work on characters without midichlorians / nonbiological entities.
* Jason doesn't care about being disarmed, due to physical strength.
* Jason doesn't take hits for no reason, Verlux proceeds to contextualize the examples given and why Jason took damage.

* Reiterates Satou arguments.

* Reiterates Predator arguments, noting that meme senses wouldn't matter due to the opening bullet barrage.

* Punisher's only given anti-feat was from a character who would mog this tier to begin with, otherwise he wasn't countered.

* Reiterates Roland arguments, Roland doesn't get affected by the force chock since he isn't a normal human (?)

***

I'll start this off by saying how close this is when the fight is basically determined by the setting. If the fight had not started without LOS Verlux would have won this rather handily, however Verlux either did not anticipate this being a thing, or he focused on arguments tangential to this point despite it making or breaking the debate here.

While the points Verlux *did* debate Mik on were debated exceptionally well, and I can count more than a few times where Verlux caught Mik on his own previous arguments or stipulations, Mik was also able to basically do the same (to a lesser degree) while successfully attacking the lynchpin for Verlux's argument in his R2. So while I personally think, if I counted every back-and-forth here, Verlux would have an advantage in quantity of claims debunked/successfully argued, he lost ground on a few arguments of exceptional importance, such as the quickdraw opener. Since so many of Verlux's other arguments leaned into this, it crippled his case as a whole, and leads me to give this one narrowly to Mik.

Winner: Mik