One little ol' NSA... and everybody loses their minds!

15:05		*** Eriu joined #obama
 BREAKING: Trump announces former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton to serve as national security adviser, replacing H.R. McMaster. - https://goo.gl/8z5Fd8
Topic set by AndroidUS!~AndroidUS@32.209.148.69 on Thu Mar 22 2018 15:35:32 GMT-0700 (PDT)
15:14	Eriu	Jon Bolton penned an essay in which he advocated for massive, state violence against North Korea.
15:14	Eriu	Should We the People write essays in which we advocated for the targeted, personal violence against Jon Bolton?
15:16	Joey	well if by violent you mean have him removed from being a national security advisor I would say yes!
15:17	Joey	but censoring him? No way...let him rant all he wants so long as he has no power....
15:17	Eriu	Joey, by 'advocate', I mean shooting him.
15:18	Joey	well no that's called murder in this country
15:18	Eriu	He, without fear of personal consequence, advocates massive slaughter against North Koreans, which will then lead to massive deaths in Seoul, and eventually in America.
15:18	Eriu	Joey, do you see how he is advocating for murder at a massive scale?
15:19	Joey	yes I do but that doesn't mean be then go ahead and blindly do as he says and start shooting....
15:19	Eriu	We're used to hearing some Americans advocate violence against some humans.
15:19	Joey	we
15:19	Eriu	We're used to hearing some Americans in our federal government advocate for the murder of non-Americans, enemies, allies, and Americans.
15:19	Eriu	I'm merely discussing the murder of one person.
15:19	Eriu	Why does that shock your conscience more sharply?
15:19	Joey	we don't shoot people for their thinking in this country...that's russia
15:20	Joey	I'm not shocked just telling you what the law is....
15:20	Eriu	That is a very insufficient responses @ what the law is.
15:20	Eriu	The law is often not applied to those in power, like John Bolton.
15:21	Joey	I mean there are instances where free speech really should be contained..like yelling fire in a crowded theatre when there is no fire....
15:21	Eriu	The law is often abused against those without power, like those living in Seoul who do not have a say in American foreign policy.
15:21	Eriu	Joey: There is no law against yelling fire in a crowded theater.
15:21	Eriu	Please update your jurisprudence to 1970.
15:21	Joey	Eriu you have an opinion and in I would say in some cases you are right...justtice doesn't always seem to work correctly but then do two wrong then make a right?
15:21	Eriu	You're literally just repeating some phrases you heard in yesteryear that you feel marginally apply here.
15:22	lednerk	looks like fox news isnt covering the kids
15:22	Eriu	Joey: If Jon Bolton personally fear for his life when he advocated for killing on a large scale, that might perhaps encourage him to only advocate such killing when it's absolutely essential.
15:22	Joey	no I'm telling you that killing is wrong and to kill someone to prove it is wrong just isn't right...
15:22	Joey	although there are times I would like to shoot some people in high office too....
15:22	Eriu	Joey: You have confused the issue -- it's not one life for one life.
15:23	Eriu	It's one life to save hundreds of thousands.
15:23	Joey	it's the old argument of going back in time and killing hitler....
15:23	Eriu	That thought experiment explores some of these principles, yes.
15:23	Joey	it feels good in the moment but is it really?
15:23	Eriu	Yes, it was correct to kill Hitler at least one day before his suicide.
15:24	Eriu	It was also correct two days.
15:24	Eriu	And four days.
15:24	Eriu	And eight days.
15:24	Eriu	And one year.
15:24	Eriu	And five years.
15:24	Eriu	10 years? That's more complicated.
15:24	Eriu	That's what we're discussing.
15:24	Joey	no that's what you are discussing I'm discussing the law and the reasons why we have them
15:24	Eriu	Joey: You're not even discussing the law accurately.
15:24	Eriu	For example, your "yelling fire in a crowded theater" trope.
15:25	Eriu	Furthermore, the law isn't the ultimate authority for correctness.
15:25	Eriu	Evidence: The history of philosophy.
15:25	Joey	I get it you want to reduce yourself in that way and that's fine....so long as that's all you can do then we're fine with each other....suiting action to those words is another thing entirely
15:25	Eriu	"I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without command that which others do only from fear from the law" - Aristotle, ~320BCE
15:25	Eriu	(It's currently 2018)
15:26	Eriu	Joey: The law is at stage four of Kohlberg's model of morality.
15:26	Joey	Eriu you still don't actually understand where thinking like that can lead us I think.....
15:26	Eriu	It's a six-stage model.
15:26	Eriu	Joey: I think there is danger involved in killing American politicians who advocate for massive killing.
15:26	Joey	heh philosophy....
15:26	Joey	what would Kant say?
15:26	Eriu	Joey: I think there is danger involved in allowing American politicians who advocate for massive killing to get away without consequences.
15:27	Joey	Eriu there is always danger.....
15:27	Eriu	Correct.
15:27	Joey	shit happens then you die....that's some real philosophy
15:27	Eriu	So, perhaps it is better that Jon Bolton fear for his life after writing his essay.
15:27	Eriu	Perhaps it is not.
15:27	Eriu	Welcome to philosophy.
15:28	Joey	I'm not sure whether or not Bolton hears anything other than believing that war is a solution....
15:28	Joey	fears
15:28	Eriu	Seeing as the advocacy for killing American politicians is extremely under-discussed in American conversation -- the essential thesis of this conversation -- it makes sense to make a strong advocacy for that position.
15:28	Eriu	https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/01/obama-cia-torture-some-folks-brennan-spying
15:28	RoboTurmp	[ Obama admits CIA 'tortured some folks' but stands by Brennan over spying | World news | The Guardian ] - https://goo.gl/noKtWh
15:29	Eriu	In some of the most expansive and blunt remarks on the CIA’s programme of rendition and detention he has made since coming to office, Obama said the country “crossed a line” as it struggled to react to the threat of further attacks by al-Qaida. However, he also said it was important “not to feel too sanctimonious”, adding that he believed intelligence...
15:29	Eriu	...officials responsible for torturing detainees were working during a period of extraordinary stress and fear.
15:29	Joey	lol I think if you start advocating for the death of politicians on line eventually you will get an FBI agent knocking on your door
15:29	Eriu	Joey: That is not philosophy.
15:29	Eriu	That is fear.
15:29	Eriu	Please stick to philosophy.
15:29	Joey	no that could be a reality
15:29	Eriu	Recall, you mentioned that free speech is what we do in America.
15:29	Eriu	This conversation is free speech.
15:29	Eriu	Do you have a doubt this conversation is free speech?
15:30	Eriu	That was addressed in Brandenburg v. Ohio.
15:30	Joey	no you actually said that killing bolton is a better option than letting him speak
15:30	Eriu	Correct, I think it is possible that killing Jon Bolton is better than allowing him to be NSA.
15:30	Eriu	And that's free speech.
15:30	Joey	heh raindonna
15:30	Eriu	Speech must 1) advocated violence 2) with a high likelihood of success, 3) which is imminent.
15:31	Eriu	Now I am discussing the law.
15:31	Eriu	I'm doing that by citing SCOTUS decisions, rather than fire in theater memes.
15:31	Joey	no you aren't murder is a law of elements....
15:31	Eriu	You'll notice my speech contains no imminency.
15:31	Joey	intention
15:31	Joey	action
15:31	Eriu	Watts v. United States featured speech much, much more threatening than this speech.
15:32	Eriu	SCOTUS ruled that protected speech, too.
15:32	Eriu	I can cite part of the decision to you, if you'd like.
15:32		--- Joey has banned *!*@ircip2.mibbit.com
15:32		*** Eriu was kicked by Joey (Text Flooding) (—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n—)
15:32		!!! You have been kicked from #obama
15:32		*** Eriu joined #obama
 BREAKING: Trump announces former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton to serve as national security adviser, replacing H.R. McMaster. - https://goo.gl/8z5Fd8
Topic set by AndroidUS!~AndroidUS@32.209.148.69 on Thu Mar 22 2018 15:35:32 GMT-0700 (PDT)
15:32	Eriu	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_President_of_the_United_States#Watts_v._United_States
15:32	RoboTurmp	[ Threatening the President of the United States - Wikipedia ] - https://goo.gl/AwX9xF
15:32	Joey	script kicked you
15:32	Eriu	Yes, you can directly speak of killing Jon Bolton and have your speech protected.
15:33	Eriu	Thank you for informing me.
15:33	Eriu	They always holler at us to get an education. And now I have already received my draft classification as 1-A and I have got to report for my physical this Monday coming. I am not going. If they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L. B. J.
15:33	Joey	yeah too many lines in a row
15:33	Joey	better
15:33	Eriu	A soldier, with a rifle, trained as a shooter, spoke of getting the president in his sights.
15:33	Eriu	And protected speech.
15:33	Eriu	"We agree with petitioner that his only offense here was 'a kind of very crude offensive method of stating a political opposition to the President.' Taken in context, and regarding the expressly conditional nature of the statement and the reaction of the listeners, we do not see how it could be interpreted otherwise." In a concurring opinion, William O. Dougl
15:33	Eriu	In a concurring opinion, William O. Douglas noted, "The Alien and Sedition Laws constituted one of our sorriest chapters; and I had thought we had done with them forever ... Suppression of speech as an effective police measure is an old, old device, outlawed by our Constitution."[55]
15:34	|werejag|	shut the fuck up
15:34	Joey	heh
15:34	Joey	it's raindonna let him rant dood
15:34	Eriu	So, now that we have verified that this conversation about the value of killing Jon Bolton, NSA, is protected speech, let us continue.
15:34	|werejag|	4ujoey
15:34	Joey	how you doing werejag?
15:34	Eriu	Joey: The Framers advocated we use violence against our government.
15:34	Eriu	You can read about it in the Declaration of Independence.
15:35	Joey	wow Eriu seriously.....now it's revolution too
15:35	Eriu	The American federal government uses violence everyday as a method to persuade and communicate.
15:35	Eriu	Real, military, state violence.
15:35	Eriu	Yet, you fear merely discussing the option in a chatroom.
15:35	Eriu	This is how the government has monopolized violence.
15:35	Joey	no I just fail to see the value in it.
15:36	Eriu	Joey: Have you read the Declaration of Independence?
15:36	|werejag|	no im tired of bullshit postsed
15:36	Eriu	That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
15:36	Joey	I would rather do what all these teenagers did today....voice their opinions and tell their elected officials if you don't do as I ask then I will vote you out of office....
15:36	Eriu	Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
15:36	Joey	that's how democracy works....you want anarchy
15:37	Eriu	Joey: The usage of violence against our government is a hard sell as we have the 2018 election coming up.
15:37	Eriu	Joey: Have you seen the various warnings from the Senate and other federal agencies that the 2018 election isn't secure?
15:37	Eriu	And that massive Russian interference is expected.
15:37	Eriu	And that the Senate, this week, advocated for every state to have paper ballots?
15:37	Joey	heh werejag...
15:37	Eriu	So, I ask you this, if We the People vote out the GOP and the GOP wins in a landslide, what then?
15:38	Eriu	But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which
15:38	Joey	and yes they should have paper ballots...what's the problem?
15:38	Eriu	constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government
15:38	Eriu	"what's the problem?"
15:38	Eriu	Thank you for the conversation, Joey.
15:38	Eriu	Joey: Here is the video I believe summarizes your viewpoint in our conversation.
15:38	Eriu	Show YouTube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZBqv-EdWOk)
15:39	RoboTurmp	[ Spongebob - Not my wallet - YouTube ] - https://goo.gl/HEodcm
15:39	Eriu	You play the role of Patrick.
15:39		*** Eriu was kicked by |werejag| (my finger sliped)
15:39		!!! You have been kicked from #obama
15:39		*** Eriu joined #obama
 BREAKING: Trump announces former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton to serve as national security adviser, replacing H.R. McMaster. - https://goo.gl/8z5Fd8
Topic set by AndroidUS!~AndroidUS@32.209.148.69 on Thu Mar 22 2018 15:35:32 GMT-0700 (PDT)
15:39	Popper	raindonna is a treasure!
15:39	Popper	THANK YOU
15:40	|werejag|	sorry it was a irritant like finger on chualk board
15:40	Popper	Eriu, please continue
15:40	Eriu	Popper: I will, if I find somebody that can marginally keep up.
15:40	Eriu	"We should immediately kill several hundred thousand people in North Korea and South Korea" - Jon Bolton
15:40	Popper	Eriu, well then you won't find anyone, but you could try to rescue some of us from ignorance
15:40	Eriu	"We should kill Jon Bolton" - Eriu
15:41	Eriu	"That is a really shocking viewpoint, Eriu" - Joey
15:41	Popper	Joey, raindonna is a GENIUS
15:41	Popper	raindonna is 100 years ahead of us all
15:41	Eriu	Philosophy is a powerful thing.
15:41	Popper	Joey, I'd say raindonna is perhaps even smarter than trump
15:42	Eriu	Popper: I put you on ignore. Please, continue.
15:42	Eriu	So, we previously democratically elected a guy, Obama, to non-violently deal with the people who went outside the law post 2001-09-11.
15:42	Eriu	And then, that guy, Obama, did nothing and reminded us to not be "too sanctimonious".
15:43	Eriu	The message is that politicians and state official who advocate for violence are 'too big to die'.
15:43	Eriu	This is part of a long train of usurpations mentioned in the DoI.
15:44	Eriu	And one of the worse failures of the Obama presidency.
15:45	Eriu	The data shows that terrorism is effective in about 30% of cases.
15:45	Eriu	Let's discuss a mechanism by which terrorism could be useful.
15:45	Eriu	"Homogenization of suffering"
15:46	Eriu	If, when party X considers harming party Y with suffering 100, if 50 of that went to Y and 50 went to X, there's a good chance X wouldn't do it unless absolutely necessary.
15:51	Eriu	https://youtu.be/JsAkujx8QAk?t=1968
15:51	RoboTurmp	[ Chillgressive Tunes - Dense - Pre-Ignite /ambient/chillout/downtempo/ - YouTube ] - https://goo.gl/TuNxdC
15:51	dez_	Trump is not street smart
15:51	dez_	Hes as street smart as a sheltered kid
15:57		+++ Joey has taken op from ^1521918^
15:57		--- Joey has banned *!*@2001:470:8afc::1:5
15:57		*** ^1521918^ was kicked by Joey (yet again bot! «Shitlisted»)
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16:07	dez_	Popper: id need plenty of sperm to stick up your rectum
16:08	dez_	Trump: demagogue strongman
16:09	dez_	TRUMP STRONG!
16:09	dez_	TRUMP BAD!
16:10	dez_	Im only a demagogue to you because you cant possibly comprehend politics or my stance
16:10	dez_	Right by my side why?
16:10	dez_	Why the " "
16:11	dez_	You think i support psol
16:12	dez_	You either do not comprehend me or straight up lie
16:12	dez_	You're not to decide that
16:14	dez_	My statements do not make it clear numbskull
16:14	dez_	No
16:14	dez_	Ive said it many times
16:16	dez_	Ive never liked or voted on a single candidate of theirs, but what i dislike the most is their tendency system dominated by trotskyists
16:17	dez_	I dislike trotskyists
16:19	Eriu	dez_: What did you think of today's march?
16:19	dez_	Havent read about it
16:20	Eriu	dez_: Do you think the Republicans should be conceptualized as enemies of We the People?
16:20	Eriu	dez_: It was the largest story of today -- makes sense you haven't seen it yet.
16:20	dez_	Theyre definetely enemies of the people
16:20	Eriu	dez_: What should Americans do if the 2018 election is hacked, liked the 2016 election?
16:20	Eriu	I think it should be the Bright Red Line.
16:21	dez_	Considering the gerasimov doctrine the russians will not stop
16:21	Eriu	The end of a "long train of usurpations", as it were.
16:21	dez_	But maybe theyll focus on 2020
16:21	Eriu	I can't believe the Right Wing ended up colluding with Russia to crash our country..
16:22	dez_	Russia is right wing
16:22	Eriu	Agreed.
16:22	dez_	They collude and then wage wars with each other
16:22	Eriu	Russia is not an ally of the conservative in America.
16:22	Eriu	But they're too stupid to advocate for their own interests.
16:22	dez_	Kinda like the british right and hitler
16:23	Eriu	Can you expound a bit on that.
16:23	Eriu	It doesn't seem democracy with universal suffrage works without robust education and strong cybersecurity.
16:23	Eriu	We don't have those two things.
16:23	Eriu	I hate Russia.
16:23	Eriu	They're winning
16:23	Eriu	Their vision of the Earth has a very real chance of coming true
16:24	Eriu	An AI empowered feudalism that can last a 1000 years
16:24	Eriu	https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/4/16251226/russia-ai-putin-rule-the-world
16:24	RoboTurmp	[ Putin says the nation that leads in AI ‘will be the ruler of the world’ - The Verge ] - https://goo.gl/L4ttSr
16:24	Eriu	“Artificial intelligence is the future, not only for Russia, but for all humankind,” said Putin, reports RT. “It comes with colossal opportunities, but also threats that are difficult to predict. Whoever becomes the leader in this sphere will become the ruler of the world.”
16:24	Eriu	He is correct.
16:24		--- Joey has banned *!*@ircip2.mibbit.com
16:24		*** Eriu was kicked by Joey (Text Flooding) (—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n—)
16:24		!!! You have been kicked from #obama
16:25		*** Eriu joined #obama
 BREAKING: Trump announces former U.N. Ambassador John Bolton to serve as national security adviser, replacing H.R. McMaster. - https://goo.gl/8z5Fd8
Topic set by AndroidUS!~AndroidUS@32.209.148.69 on Thu Mar 22 2018 15:35:32 GMT-0700 (PDT)
16:25	Eriu	That flood bot is a clear and present danger to greatness.
16:26	Eriu	Fren, I advocate immediate tactical nuke strike.