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  1. #+TITLE Why I'm Ditching Android
  2. #+AUTHOR kevq
  3. * Why I'm Ditching Android by kevq
  4. :PROPERTIES:
  5. :BY: "kevq"
  6. :DESCENDANTS: 44
  7. :ID: 18370159
  8. :KIDS: [18370244 18370275 18370469 18370286 18370390 18370252 18370276 18370440 18370362 18370254 18370279 18370319 18370317 18370310 18370249 18370287 18370473 18370420 18370230 18370225 18370338]
  9. :SCORE: 74
  10. :TIME: 1541253253
  11. :TITLE: "Why I'm Ditching Android"
  12. :TYPE: "story"
  13. :URL: "https://kevq.uk/why-im-ditching-android/"
  14. :END:
  15.  
  16.  
  17.  
  18.  
  19. ** me551ah
  20. :PROPERTIES:
  21. :BY: "me551ah"
  22. :ID: 18370244
  23. :KIDS: [18370472 18370464 18370278 18370290]
  24. :PARENT: 18370159
  25. :TEXT: "Notifications, as you rightly mentioned, are a huge problem with Android. Some manufacturers implement battery saving measures which force kill applications so they can no longer process notifications.<p>I used to work at a team messaging startup Flock and we used to get a lot of complaints from users about missing notifications. We were able to detect impacted users and reduce complaints substantially using duplicate acks from xmpp fcm and app. The details are outlined here in case anyone wants to check out: <a href=\"https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackernoon.com&#x2F;notifications-in-android-are-horribly-broken-b8dbec63f48a\" rel=\"nofollow\">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackernoon.com&#x2F;notifications-in-android-are-horribly...</a>"
  26. :TIME: 1541254692
  27. :TYPE: "comment"
  28. :END:
  29.  
  30.  
  31. Notifications, as you rightly mentioned, are a huge problem with Android. Some manufacturers implement battery saving measures which force kill applications so they can no longer process notifications.<p>I used to work at a team messaging startup Flock and we used to get a lot of complaints from users about missing notifications. We were able to detect impacted users and reduce complaints substantially using duplicate acks from xmpp fcm and app. The details are outlined here in case anyone wants to check out: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackernoon.com&#x2F;notifications-in-android-are-horribly-broken-b8dbec63f48a" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackernoon.com&#x2F;notifications-in-android-are-horribly...</a>
  32.  
  33. *** Zenst
  34. :PROPERTIES:
  35. :BY: "Zenst"
  36. :ID: 18370472
  37. :PARENT: 18370244
  38. :TEXT: "Notifications need teirs.<p>You have notifications, that are not important, so low priority.<p>But equally you have notifications that are important, those should be sent and logged message queue style, so they stay on the send queue until processed and processing acknowledged by the client."
  39. :TIME: 1541257010
  40. :TYPE: "comment"
  41. :END:
  42.  
  43.  
  44. Notifications need teirs.<p>You have notifications, that are not important, so low priority.<p>But equally you have notifications that are important, those should be sent and logged message queue style, so they stay on the send queue until processed and processing acknowledged by the client.
  45.  
  46. *** yen223
  47. :PROPERTIES:
  48. :BY: "yen223"
  49. :ID: 18370464
  50. :PARENT: 18370244
  51. :TEXT: "The current Android app development landscape seems to be where the web was circa 2005, where you have a &quot;standard&quot; Android API (except without an actual standard), implemented a million different ways based on the whims of each individual vendor. Compounded by the problem that Google seems to enjoy replacing parts of the API every single year for no discernable reason.<p>I do not envy the job of an Android developer."
  52. :TIME: 1541256930
  53. :TYPE: "comment"
  54. :END:
  55.  
  56.  
  57. The current Android app development landscape seems to be where the web was circa 2005, where you have a &quot;standard&quot; Android API (except without an actual standard), implemented a million different ways based on the whims of each individual vendor. Compounded by the problem that Google seems to enjoy replacing parts of the API every single year for no discernable reason.<p>I do not envy the job of an Android developer.
  58.  
  59. *** dep_b
  60. :PROPERTIES:
  61. :BY: "dep_b"
  62. :ID: 18370278
  63. :KIDS: [18370364]
  64. :PARENT: 18370244
  65. :TEXT: "That&#x27;s a pretty horrifying story about those push notifications. The biggest use case of my customers for creating native apps around web apps for iOS is push notifications, that&#x27;s immensely huge for businesses. Losing push notifications means your application loses it&#x27;s value."
  66. :TIME: 1541255136
  67. :TYPE: "comment"
  68. :END:
  69.  
  70.  
  71. That&#x27;s a pretty horrifying story about those push notifications. The biggest use case of my customers for creating native apps around web apps for iOS is push notifications, that&#x27;s immensely huge for businesses. Losing push notifications means your application loses it&#x27;s value.
  72.  
  73. **** sgc
  74. :PROPERTIES:
  75. :BY: "sgc"
  76. :ID: 18370364
  77. :KIDS: [18370452]
  78. :PARENT: 18370278
  79. :TEXT: "Although probably not push itself as a mechanism, this interfering trend is so bad that for a time I could not find a timer or alarm that would actually ring at the right time. I have one now, but there should have been zero instances of failure to notify for a <i>timer</i>."
  80. :TIME: 1541255856
  81. :TYPE: "comment"
  82. :END:
  83.  
  84.  
  85. Although probably not push itself as a mechanism, this interfering trend is so bad that for a time I could not find a timer or alarm that would actually ring at the right time. I have one now, but there should have been zero instances of failure to notify for a <i>timer</i>.
  86.  
  87. ***** Arnt
  88. :PROPERTIES:
  89. :BY: "Arnt"
  90. :ID: 18370452
  91. :PARENT: 18370364
  92. :TEXT: "On the other hand, there should also be zero instances of battery-burning apps, and zero instances of unkillable apps.<p>IMO the blame belongs mostly to the thingies that kills apps so hard that Android blacklists them, and won&#x27;t start them again until the user explicitly does it. That Android has that blacklist is understandable; that &quot;battery savers&quot; get innocent apps added is IMNSHO offensively shoddy."
  93. :TIME: 1541256766
  94. :TYPE: "comment"
  95. :END:
  96.  
  97.  
  98. On the other hand, there should also be zero instances of battery-burning apps, and zero instances of unkillable apps.<p>IMO the blame belongs mostly to the thingies that kills apps so hard that Android blacklists them, and won&#x27;t start them again until the user explicitly does it. That Android has that blacklist is understandable; that &quot;battery savers&quot; get innocent apps added is IMNSHO offensively shoddy.
  99.  
  100. *** krtkush
  101. :PROPERTIES:
  102. :BY: "krtkush"
  103. :ID: 18370290
  104. :KIDS: [18370318]
  105. :PARENT: 18370244
  106. :TEXT: "If you still know people working over there please let them know that the slack wannabe messaging app is a dumpster fire. I struggle with it every day at work.<p>Edit: I realise I came across a bit too aggressive. Apologies for that."
  107. :TIME: 1541255231
  108. :TYPE: "comment"
  109. :END:
  110.  
  111.  
  112. If you still know people working over there please let them know that the slack wannabe messaging app is a dumpster fire. I struggle with it every day at work.<p>Edit: I realise I came across a bit too aggressive. Apologies for that.
  113.  
  114. **** me551ah
  115. :PROPERTIES:
  116. :BY: "me551ah"
  117. :ID: 18370318
  118. :PARENT: 18370290
  119. :TEXT: "You could also use &#x27;Send Feedback&#x27; from inside of the app and send in your issues to the devs. I&#x27;ve found that the developers are pretty responsive to feedback and reply back quickly. It has 4.3 rating on the store."
  120. :TIME: 1541255476
  121. :TYPE: "comment"
  122. :END:
  123.  
  124.  
  125. You could also use &#x27;Send Feedback&#x27; from inside of the app and send in your issues to the devs. I&#x27;ve found that the developers are pretty responsive to feedback and reply back quickly. It has 4.3 rating on the store.
  126.  
  127. ** dagenix
  128. :PROPERTIES:
  129. :BY: "dagenix"
  130. :ID: 18370275
  131. :KIDS: [18370482 18370371]
  132. :PARENT: 18370159
  133. :TEXT: "The number of requests sent to Google or Apple seems like a poor metric to judge privacy impact. A single request with my bank account number carries a lot more information about me than 1,000 with my battery status."
  134. :TIME: 1541255103
  135. :TYPE: "comment"
  136. :END:
  137.  
  138.  
  139. The number of requests sent to Google or Apple seems like a poor metric to judge privacy impact. A single request with my bank account number carries a lot more information about me than 1,000 with my battery status.
  140.  
  141. *** kopo
  142. :PROPERTIES:
  143. :BY: "kopo"
  144. :ID: 18370482
  145. :PARENT: 18370275
  146. :TEXT: "I thought so too, until while programming a wifi webcam I needed to sniff wifi traffic from my phone. God that was scary. I remember doing packet capture work 10-12 years back and knowing more or less what my machine was doing on the network.<p>These days I can&#x27;t even begin to work that out. There is easily a 100x more traffic and every single time I ran a capture I would find a whole bunch of new hosts being contacted that have no business talking to my phone. And I just use my phone for email and messaging. Not a big app user."
  147. :TIME: 1541257108
  148. :TYPE: "comment"
  149. :END:
  150.  
  151.  
  152. I thought so too, until while programming a wifi webcam I needed to sniff wifi traffic from my phone. God that was scary. I remember doing packet capture work 10-12 years back and knowing more or less what my machine was doing on the network.<p>These days I can&#x27;t even begin to work that out. There is easily a 100x more traffic and every single time I ran a capture I would find a whole bunch of new hosts being contacted that have no business talking to my phone. And I just use my phone for email and messaging. Not a big app user.
  153.  
  154. *** yipbub
  155. :PROPERTIES:
  156. :BY: "yipbub"
  157. :ID: 18370371
  158. :PARENT: 18370275
  159. :TEXT: "Apple has less incentive to exfiltrate your personal data. I hate what both apple and google stand for these days."
  160. :TIME: 1541255921
  161. :TYPE: "comment"
  162. :END:
  163.  
  164.  
  165. Apple has less incentive to exfiltrate your personal data. I hate what both apple and google stand for these days.
  166.  
  167. ** brownbat
  168. :PROPERTIES:
  169. :BY: "brownbat"
  170. :ID: 18370469
  171. :PARENT: 18370159
  172. :TEXT: "Based on the concerns as stated, price of new devices, devices being too large, data sent to Google, bundled apps that can&#x27;t be removed...<p>And given the author&#x27;s interest in FOSS and Android Pay from past articles, and possible preference for the Android UI in general...<p>Really interesting Lineage failed here. He claims apps kept nagging about the lack of Google app support.<p>Surprised he didn&#x27;t just ditch the bad apps. Clearly he&#x27;s ok ditching them all if he&#x27;s switching ecosystems... I wonder if this isn&#x27;t just the case of Android missing good non Google dependent apps in the store.<p>To build a new killer phone, you really first need to first build a million apps.<p>Tough dilemma. Maybe if Ubuntu had waited until the market was a little more stagnant it would have done better.<p>Or maybe someone should make a FOSS app store."
  173. :TIME: 1541256985
  174. :TYPE: "comment"
  175. :END:
  176.  
  177.  
  178. Based on the concerns as stated, price of new devices, devices being too large, data sent to Google, bundled apps that can&#x27;t be removed...<p>And given the author&#x27;s interest in FOSS and Android Pay from past articles, and possible preference for the Android UI in general...<p>Really interesting Lineage failed here. He claims apps kept nagging about the lack of Google app support.<p>Surprised he didn&#x27;t just ditch the bad apps. Clearly he&#x27;s ok ditching them all if he&#x27;s switching ecosystems... I wonder if this isn&#x27;t just the case of Android missing good non Google dependent apps in the store.<p>To build a new killer phone, you really first need to first build a million apps.<p>Tough dilemma. Maybe if Ubuntu had waited until the market was a little more stagnant it would have done better.<p>Or maybe someone should make a FOSS app store.
  179.  
  180. ** SamWhited
  181. :PROPERTIES:
  182. :BY: "SamWhited"
  183. :ID: 18370286
  184. :KIDS: [18370379 18370320]
  185. :PARENT: 18370159
  186. :TEXT: "I&#x27;ve been coming around to this way of thinking more and more lately. Apple has a clear business model that involves selling high-end phones and other hardware and taking a percentage of app sales, not selling me to advertisers. I&#x27;ve found at least 5 different privacy settings buried in various places around the Android menus in a confusing way (instead of just having a single switch in the privacy settings menu), and for years iOS has had a much better security track record. The only real down side I can see is that it&#x27;s not open source (not that Android is either, but there are Android based alternatives that are), but on balance I&#x27;d rather use something where the economic pressure is to do right by their customers, not something where their customers are the product.<p>Apple has serious problems, but on balance it seems to be the better choice. I also tend to agree with the OP that the iPhone SE is a reasonable size, unlike every Android phone on the market. I just really wish there were a decent chat client that supported XMPP-based services, that&#x27;s really all that&#x27;s stopped me from moving over (my carrier lets me receive SMS&#x2F;MMS messages to an XMPP address and receive calls via SIP, so it&#x27;s rather important to me)."
  187. :TIME: 1541255203
  188. :TYPE: "comment"
  189. :END:
  190.  
  191.  
  192. I&#x27;ve been coming around to this way of thinking more and more lately. Apple has a clear business model that involves selling high-end phones and other hardware and taking a percentage of app sales, not selling me to advertisers. I&#x27;ve found at least 5 different privacy settings buried in various places around the Android menus in a confusing way (instead of just having a single switch in the privacy settings menu), and for years iOS has had a much better security track record. The only real down side I can see is that it&#x27;s not open source (not that Android is either, but there are Android based alternatives that are), but on balance I&#x27;d rather use something where the economic pressure is to do right by their customers, not something where their customers are the product.<p>Apple has serious problems, but on balance it seems to be the better choice. I also tend to agree with the OP that the iPhone SE is a reasonable size, unlike every Android phone on the market. I just really wish there were a decent chat client that supported XMPP-based services, that&#x27;s really all that&#x27;s stopped me from moving over (my carrier lets me receive SMS&#x2F;MMS messages to an XMPP address and receive calls via SIP, so it&#x27;s rather important to me).
  193.  
  194. *** tootie
  195. :PROPERTIES:
  196. :BY: "tootie"
  197. :ID: 18370379
  198. :PARENT: 18370286
  199. :TEXT: "I think you can say that if privacy is important to you, then you are probably more aligned with Apple&#x27;s business plan. The article says as much. It&#x27;s not like Apple are being more magnanimous, it&#x27;s just that they don&#x27;t profit off of user tracking so they use it as marketing ammo against Google users.<p>As a developer, it constantly burns my biscuits that Apple software only runs on Apple hardware. The fact that I have no choice but to buy expensive Apple devices to develop for their platform is irritating."
  200. :TIME: 1541255977
  201. :TYPE: "comment"
  202. :END:
  203.  
  204.  
  205. I think you can say that if privacy is important to you, then you are probably more aligned with Apple&#x27;s business plan. The article says as much. It&#x27;s not like Apple are being more magnanimous, it&#x27;s just that they don&#x27;t profit off of user tracking so they use it as marketing ammo against Google users.<p>As a developer, it constantly burns my biscuits that Apple software only runs on Apple hardware. The fact that I have no choice but to buy expensive Apple devices to develop for their platform is irritating.
  206.  
  207. *** nil
  208. :PROPERTIES:
  209. :DELETED: t
  210. :ID: 18370320
  211. :PARENT: 18370286
  212. :TIME: 1541255504
  213. :TYPE: "comment"
  214. :END:
  215.  
  216.  
  217. nil
  218.  
  219. ** asveikau
  220. :PROPERTIES:
  221. :BY: "asveikau"
  222. :ID: 18370390
  223. :KIDS: [18370448]
  224. :PARENT: 18370159
  225. :TEXT: "I put lineage on two devices and I must say it&#x27;s shockingly refreshing to be able to have some say in how much Google you get. I am used to the idea of OEM and carrier bloatware but it&#x27;s surprising how much unwanted Google software appears in a stock image. On lineage I am pretty happy with the &quot;nano&quot; set of OpenGApps which is about the amount of Googleyness I want. I install a few more from Play on top."
  226. :TIME: 1541256074
  227. :TYPE: "comment"
  228. :END:
  229.  
  230.  
  231. I put lineage on two devices and I must say it&#x27;s shockingly refreshing to be able to have some say in how much Google you get. I am used to the idea of OEM and carrier bloatware but it&#x27;s surprising how much unwanted Google software appears in a stock image. On lineage I am pretty happy with the &quot;nano&quot; set of OpenGApps which is about the amount of Googleyness I want. I install a few more from Play on top.
  232.  
  233. *** k__
  234. :PROPERTIES:
  235. :BY: "k__"
  236. :ID: 18370448
  237. :PARENT: 18370390
  238. :TEXT: "Lineage seems like a reasonable solution.<p>Dropping Android for iOS is a joke."
  239. :TIME: 1541256742
  240. :TYPE: "comment"
  241. :END:
  242.  
  243.  
  244. Lineage seems like a reasonable solution.<p>Dropping Android for iOS is a joke.
  245.  
  246. ** matart
  247. :PROPERTIES:
  248. :BY: "matart"
  249. :ID: 18370252
  250. :KIDS: [18370296]
  251. :PARENT: 18370159
  252. :TEXT: "On the notifications part, I had a Huawei phone for a bit and encountered the same issue. Huawei does some crazy things to keep the battery from draining. It does kill almost all background apps. There are some settings to stop this but it seems like a crap shoot whether it decided to listen to them. I thought android had gone down hill and eventually tested out an S9 and realized it was the Huawei android flavor that did this."
  253. :TIME: 1541254802
  254. :TYPE: "comment"
  255. :END:
  256.  
  257.  
  258. On the notifications part, I had a Huawei phone for a bit and encountered the same issue. Huawei does some crazy things to keep the battery from draining. It does kill almost all background apps. There are some settings to stop this but it seems like a crap shoot whether it decided to listen to them. I thought android had gone down hill and eventually tested out an S9 and realized it was the Huawei android flavor that did this.
  259.  
  260. *** amaccuish
  261. :PROPERTIES:
  262. :BY: "amaccuish"
  263. :ID: 18370296
  264. :PARENT: 18370252
  265. :TEXT: "I have the same problem with my android, I generally find the notifications less reliable than when I was on iOS."
  266. :TIME: 1541255289
  267. :TYPE: "comment"
  268. :END:
  269.  
  270.  
  271. I have the same problem with my android, I generally find the notifications less reliable than when I was on iOS.
  272.  
  273. ** wowamit
  274. :PROPERTIES:
  275. :BY: "wowamit"
  276. :ID: 18370276
  277. :KIDS: [18370339 18370427 18370432]
  278. :PARENT: 18370159
  279. :TEXT: "To say that I&#x27;m ditching Android is a pretty incomplete statement - because there is no one Android. It really matter which flavour of Android we are talking about. And which specific device. For example, the bloatware might not be a problem on a unlocked Pixel device.<p>At this point, both iOS and Android are in pretty stable states. It comes down to individual preferences. Author primarily seems to have an issue with Google, which again is justified."
  280. :TIME: 1541255116
  281. :TYPE: "comment"
  282. :END:
  283.  
  284.  
  285. To say that I&#x27;m ditching Android is a pretty incomplete statement - because there is no one Android. It really matter which flavour of Android we are talking about. And which specific device. For example, the bloatware might not be a problem on a unlocked Pixel device.<p>At this point, both iOS and Android are in pretty stable states. It comes down to individual preferences. Author primarily seems to have an issue with Google, which again is justified.
  286.  
  287. *** pseudoandy
  288. :PROPERTIES:
  289. :BY: "pseudoandy"
  290. :ID: 18370339
  291. :KIDS: [18370392 18370422]
  292. :PARENT: 18370276
  293. :TEXT: "I do not have any extra bloatware from any manufacturer, due to the fact that I run a Xiaomi Mi A1 as my daily driver, but I still would appreciate the choice to be able to manually install only the apps that I would use, e.g. Firefox instead of Chrome. I do have 64Gb of internal storage, but I obsess about every lost megabyte due to something I don&#x27;t use( even when disabled or not used, Chrome still runs functions on the phone, so it runs in the background )."
  294. :TIME: 1541255642
  295. :TYPE: "comment"
  296. :END:
  297.  
  298.  
  299. I do not have any extra bloatware from any manufacturer, due to the fact that I run a Xiaomi Mi A1 as my daily driver, but I still would appreciate the choice to be able to manually install only the apps that I would use, e.g. Firefox instead of Chrome. I do have 64Gb of internal storage, but I obsess about every lost megabyte due to something I don&#x27;t use( even when disabled or not used, Chrome still runs functions on the phone, so it runs in the background ).
  300.  
  301. **** zwkrt
  302. :PROPERTIES:
  303. :BY: "zwkrt"
  304. :ID: 18370392
  305. :PARENT: 18370339
  306. :TEXT: "That sounds a lot like bloatware to me"
  307. :TIME: 1541256082
  308. :TYPE: "comment"
  309. :END:
  310.  
  311.  
  312. That sounds a lot like bloatware to me
  313.  
  314. **** muro
  315. :PROPERTIES:
  316. :BY: "muro"
  317. :ID: 18370422
  318. :PARENT: 18370339
  319. :TEXT: "Chrome is the webview for all apps, might be tricky to remove."
  320. :TIME: 1541256408
  321. :TYPE: "comment"
  322. :END:
  323.  
  324.  
  325. Chrome is the webview for all apps, might be tricky to remove.
  326.  
  327. *** mikestew
  328. :PROPERTIES:
  329. :BY: "mikestew"
  330. :ID: 18370427
  331. :PARENT: 18370276
  332. :TEXT: "<i>To say that I&#x27;m ditching Android is a pretty incomplete statement - because there is no one Android.</i><p>I\342\200\231m sure the author would be glad to add that to the list of complaints. One OS might say, \342\200\234Surprise! You got the wrong version&#x2F;model&#x2F;puppy for your use case!\342\200\235. The other one won\342\200\231t."
  333. :TIME: 1541256509
  334. :TYPE: "comment"
  335. :END:
  336.  
  337.  
  338. <i>To say that I&#x27;m ditching Android is a pretty incomplete statement - because there is no one Android.</i><p>I’m sure the author would be glad to add that to the list of complaints. One OS might say, “Surprise! You got the wrong version&#x2F;model&#x2F;puppy for your use case!”. The other one won’t.
  339.  
  340. *** pier25
  341. :PROPERTIES:
  342. :BY: "pier25"
  343. :ID: 18370432
  344. :PARENT: 18370276
  345. :TEXT: "&gt; the bloatware might not be a problem on a unlocked Pixel device<p>Or an Android One device."
  346. :TIME: 1541256606
  347. :TYPE: "comment"
  348. :END:
  349.  
  350.  
  351. &gt; the bloatware might not be a problem on a unlocked Pixel device<p>Or an Android One device.
  352.  
  353. ** tambourine_man
  354. :PROPERTIES:
  355. :BY: "tambourine_man"
  356. :ID: 18370440
  357. :PARENT: 18370159
  358. :TEXT: "I use an SE too. I wish Apple would sell a smaller version of their newest display, camera and chip."
  359. :TIME: 1541256678
  360. :TYPE: "comment"
  361. :END:
  362.  
  363.  
  364. I use an SE too. I wish Apple would sell a smaller version of their newest display, camera and chip.
  365.  
  366. ** archi42
  367. :PROPERTIES:
  368. :BY: "archi42"
  369. :ID: 18370362
  370. :PARENT: 18370159
  371. :TEXT: "I&#x27;m currently in a similar spot, but am very surprised you did not mention MicroG, which is an open reimplementation of the Google APIs. There seem to be some issues with GCM (or, more precisely, the newer replacement - uhm, FCM?), but imho it&#x27;s worth a try. If you already have a LineageOS-supported device, you can grab a prebuilt LineageOS+MicroG image from the MicroG site.<p>Disclaimer: That&#x27;s pure theory. I&#x27;m still figuring out how to do a custom build of LOS16+MicroG for my device, since it&#x27;s only on LOS14."
  372. :TIME: 1541255844
  373. :TYPE: "comment"
  374. :END:
  375.  
  376.  
  377. I&#x27;m currently in a similar spot, but am very surprised you did not mention MicroG, which is an open reimplementation of the Google APIs. There seem to be some issues with GCM (or, more precisely, the newer replacement - uhm, FCM?), but imho it&#x27;s worth a try. If you already have a LineageOS-supported device, you can grab a prebuilt LineageOS+MicroG image from the MicroG site.<p>Disclaimer: That&#x27;s pure theory. I&#x27;m still figuring out how to do a custom build of LOS16+MicroG for my device, since it&#x27;s only on LOS14.
  378.  
  379. ** Kirth
  380. :PROPERTIES:
  381. :BY: "Kirth"
  382. :ID: 18370254
  383. :KIDS: [18370312 18370407 18370303]
  384. :PARENT: 18370159
  385. :TEXT: "A bit painful to read considering the iPhone SE-series is now discontinued. (Despite that the SE is still a very good phone. Wish more manufacturers made devices with these dimensions and polish.)"
  386. :TIME: 1541254812
  387. :TYPE: "comment"
  388. :END:
  389.  
  390.  
  391. A bit painful to read considering the iPhone SE-series is now discontinued. (Despite that the SE is still a very good phone. Wish more manufacturers made devices with these dimensions and polish.)
  392.  
  393. *** aikah
  394. :PROPERTIES:
  395. :BY: "aikah"
  396. :ID: 18370312
  397. :KIDS: [18370435]
  398. :PARENT: 18370254
  399. :TEXT: "Yeah, the SE was best value&#x2F;price phone. I have hard time understanding why Apple stopped producing it. The form factor was the best as well, I can&#x27;t stand bigger phones personally.<p>I told my parents to buy an Android initially but ultimately they moved to the iPhone because they thought it was simpler and better than Android. To me the fact that I can code my own apps with Java without having to buy a mac is a plus, but I understand people who aren&#x27;t developers don&#x27;t care about hackability if they can afford an iPhone."
  400. :TIME: 1541255439
  401. :TYPE: "comment"
  402. :END:
  403.  
  404.  
  405. Yeah, the SE was best value&#x2F;price phone. I have hard time understanding why Apple stopped producing it. The form factor was the best as well, I can&#x27;t stand bigger phones personally.<p>I told my parents to buy an Android initially but ultimately they moved to the iPhone because they thought it was simpler and better than Android. To me the fact that I can code my own apps with Java without having to buy a mac is a plus, but I understand people who aren&#x27;t developers don&#x27;t care about hackability if they can afford an iPhone.
  406.  
  407. **** wrkronmiller
  408. :PROPERTIES:
  409. :BY: "wrkronmiller"
  410. :ID: 18370435
  411. :PARENT: 18370312
  412. :TEXT: "iOS can also be pretty fun to develop for if you have a mac and xcode.<p>IMHO iOS is good for developers who are okay with coloring inside the lines set out by Apple. The developer experience isn&#x27;t perfect by any stretch, but writing personal apps&#x2F;utilities in Swift using a package manager like Carthage is pretty painless.<p>Apple has some great features for de-centralization, such as the Multipeer Connectivity framework.<p>I think it depends a lot on where in the stack you want to work. If you want to customize your baseband or do system-level modifications then Android is the way to go. If you work higher up the stack, writing apps, then you might like iOS more than Android. I certainly did."
  413. :TIME: 1541256634
  414. :TYPE: "comment"
  415. :END:
  416.  
  417.  
  418. iOS can also be pretty fun to develop for if you have a mac and xcode.<p>IMHO iOS is good for developers who are okay with coloring inside the lines set out by Apple. The developer experience isn&#x27;t perfect by any stretch, but writing personal apps&#x2F;utilities in Swift using a package manager like Carthage is pretty painless.<p>Apple has some great features for de-centralization, such as the Multipeer Connectivity framework.<p>I think it depends a lot on where in the stack you want to work. If you want to customize your baseband or do system-level modifications then Android is the way to go. If you work higher up the stack, writing apps, then you might like iOS more than Android. I certainly did.
  419.  
  420. *** epmaybe
  421. :PROPERTIES:
  422. :BY: "epmaybe"
  423. :ID: 18370407
  424. :PARENT: 18370254
  425. :TEXT: "It&#x27;s discontinued, but you can still purchase the device (for fairly low price too!). On top of that, based on Apple&#x27;s track record for software support, you can expect support for at least another year, if not more. Note that the iPhone 5S, a phone released in 2013 on iOS7, received the iOS12 update not too long ago."
  426. :TIME: 1541256228
  427. :TYPE: "comment"
  428. :END:
  429.  
  430.  
  431. It&#x27;s discontinued, but you can still purchase the device (for fairly low price too!). On top of that, based on Apple&#x27;s track record for software support, you can expect support for at least another year, if not more. Note that the iPhone 5S, a phone released in 2013 on iOS7, received the iOS12 update not too long ago.
  432.  
  433. *** dep_b
  434. :PROPERTIES:
  435. :BY: "dep_b"
  436. :ID: 18370303
  437. :PARENT: 18370254
  438. :TEXT: "It will be supported for another year or two so there&#x27;s time to wait a bit to see what Apple does. An Xr Mini would be an instabuy for me even if they would price it around US$700."
  439. :TIME: 1541255363
  440. :TYPE: "comment"
  441. :END:
  442.  
  443.  
  444. It will be supported for another year or two so there&#x27;s time to wait a bit to see what Apple does. An Xr Mini would be an instabuy for me even if they would price it around US$700.
  445.  
  446. ** ChrisRackauckas
  447. :PROPERTIES:
  448. :BY: "ChrisRackauckas"
  449. :ID: 18370279
  450. :KIDS: [18370478]
  451. :PARENT: 18370159
  452. :TEXT: "Honestly, who really cares that much about what smartphone you have these days? You have one with a good enough battery and the same apps as anyone else, and the speed is all fast enough to not notice. At this point the technology has converged."
  453. :TIME: 1541255140
  454. :TYPE: "comment"
  455. :END:
  456.  
  457.  
  458. Honestly, who really cares that much about what smartphone you have these days? You have one with a good enough battery and the same apps as anyone else, and the speed is all fast enough to not notice. At this point the technology has converged.
  459.  
  460. *** beatgammit
  461. :PROPERTIES:
  462. :BY: "beatgammit"
  463. :ID: 18370478
  464. :PARENT: 18370279
  465. :TEXT: "Yup. I just bought a $250 Moto X4 to replace my Nexus 6 and it feels faster. My Nexus 6 cost $450 a couple years old, and my new phone was new.<p>I don&#x27;t see any reason to pay $1000 for a phone these days, and I probably could have gotten the same experience from the Moto G at $200.<p>I just want a phone that:<p>- can last the entire day
  466. - can run a browser reasonably well
  467. - has decent reception
  468. - will get security updates for at least 2 years (expected lifetime of batteries)<p>I don&#x27;t need a fancy camera, next-gen graphics, or super high DPI screen, I just need a phone that&#x27;s reasonably reliable, and even the bottom tier phones are more than capable."
  469. :TIME: 1541257061
  470. :TYPE: "comment"
  471. :END:
  472.  
  473.  
  474. Yup. I just bought a $250 Moto X4 to replace my Nexus 6 and it feels faster. My Nexus 6 cost $450 a couple years old, and my new phone was new.<p>I don&#x27;t see any reason to pay $1000 for a phone these days, and I probably could have gotten the same experience from the Moto G at $200.<p>I just want a phone that:<p>- can last the entire day
  475. - can run a browser reasonably well
  476. - has decent reception
  477. - will get security updates for at least 2 years (expected lifetime of batteries)<p>I don&#x27;t need a fancy camera, next-gen graphics, or super high DPI screen, I just need a phone that&#x27;s reasonably reliable, and even the bottom tier phones are more than capable.
  478.  
  479. ** qaute
  480. :PROPERTIES:
  481. :BY: "qaute"
  482. :ID: 18370319
  483. :KIDS: [18370411]
  484. :PARENT: 18370159
  485. :TEXT: "&quot;I tried replacing Android with Lineage OS on a old phone I had. Whilst that meant I didn\342\200\231t have any Google Apps on my device, it was still Android underneath. Also many apps kept complaining that I didn\342\200\231t have Google services on the device.&quot;<p>An alternative is to install microG [1], which reimplements assorted Google services. YMMV, but I&#x27;ve been able to run ~70% of all Android apps with no problems.<p>[1] <a href=\"https:&#x2F;&#x2F;microg.org&#x2F;\" rel=\"nofollow\">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;microg.org&#x2F;</a>"
  486. :TIME: 1541255492
  487. :TYPE: "comment"
  488. :END:
  489.  
  490.  
  491. &quot;I tried replacing Android with Lineage OS on a old phone I had. Whilst that meant I didn’t have any Google Apps on my device, it was still Android underneath. Also many apps kept complaining that I didn’t have Google services on the device.&quot;<p>An alternative is to install microG [1], which reimplements assorted Google services. YMMV, but I&#x27;ve been able to run ~70% of all Android apps with no problems.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;microg.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;microg.org&#x2F;</a>
  492.  
  493. *** kingosticks
  494. :PROPERTIES:
  495. :BY: "kingosticks"
  496. :ID: 18370411
  497. :PARENT: 18370319
  498. :TEXT: "What&#x27;s the best hardware supported by microG? My current phone is not supported and while my previous one is, it&#x27;s an original Moto G; I don&#x27;t think I could handle returning to those specs, not to mention the ageing battery."
  499. :TIME: 1541256311
  500. :TYPE: "comment"
  501. :END:
  502.  
  503.  
  504. What&#x27;s the best hardware supported by microG? My current phone is not supported and while my previous one is, it&#x27;s an original Moto G; I don&#x27;t think I could handle returning to those specs, not to mention the ageing battery.
  505.  
  506. ** pseudoandy
  507. :PROPERTIES:
  508. :BY: "pseudoandy"
  509. :ID: 18370317
  510. :PARENT: 18370159
  511. :TEXT: "I remember when Ubuntu tried making a mobile phone OS( Ubuntu Touch ), but it never was a commercial success. I was extremely dissatisfied to hear about Google and their phone upload requests. It makes me question whether Android is a good choice after all( not that I agree with Apple, either ). That is the problem with modern-day tech, there is not enough choice in the market. Everything is either bought out or choked out by larger, dominating manufacturers, i.e. Google &amp; Apple."
  512. :TIME: 1541255469
  513. :TYPE: "comment"
  514. :END:
  515.  
  516.  
  517. I remember when Ubuntu tried making a mobile phone OS( Ubuntu Touch ), but it never was a commercial success. I was extremely dissatisfied to hear about Google and their phone upload requests. It makes me question whether Android is a good choice after all( not that I agree with Apple, either ). That is the problem with modern-day tech, there is not enough choice in the market. Everything is either bought out or choked out by larger, dominating manufacturers, i.e. Google &amp; Apple.
  518.  
  519. ** billfruit
  520. :PROPERTIES:
  521. :BY: "billfruit"
  522. :ID: 18370310
  523. :PARENT: 18370159
  524. :TEXT: "What about iOS being a walled garden? Moving to a proprietary OS isn&#x27;t going to safeguard the interests of data security in the long term.<p>Also see the rich custom rom scene for Android phones, with highly active communities building rooms for even phone models long abandoned by their
  525. manufacturers."
  526. :TIME: 1541255424
  527. :TYPE: "comment"
  528. :END:
  529.  
  530.  
  531. What about iOS being a walled garden? Moving to a proprietary OS isn&#x27;t going to safeguard the interests of data security in the long term.<p>Also see the rich custom rom scene for Android phones, with highly active communities building rooms for even phone models long abandoned by their
  532. manufacturers.
  533.  
  534. ** orliesaurus
  535. :PROPERTIES:
  536. :BY: "orliesaurus"
  537. :ID: 18370249
  538. :KIDS: [18370396]
  539. :PARENT: 18370159
  540. :TEXT: "I was hoping the author was going to list alternative stable mobile OSes with privacy and users in mind, or maybe lay down the reasons for starting a project hard forking an existing OS or something...but he literally just said he wants to move to iOS???<p>Honestly, (and personally) I feel better knowing that I am running an Android ROM with publicly available code on Github than any iOS any day"
  541. :TIME: 1541254777
  542. :TYPE: "comment"
  543. :END:
  544.  
  545.  
  546. I was hoping the author was going to list alternative stable mobile OSes with privacy and users in mind, or maybe lay down the reasons for starting a project hard forking an existing OS or something...but he literally just said he wants to move to iOS???<p>Honestly, (and personally) I feel better knowing that I am running an Android ROM with publicly available code on Github than any iOS any day
  547.  
  548. *** rapnie
  549. :PROPERTIES:
  550. :BY: "rapnie"
  551. :ID: 18370396
  552. :PARENT: 18370249
  553. :TEXT: "I think &#x2F;e&#x2F; ( <a href=\"https:&#x2F;&#x2F;e.foundation\" rel=\"nofollow\">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;e.foundation</a>) promising in that respect, and in the longer run maybe puri.sm Librem5."
  554. :TIME: 1541256129
  555. :TYPE: "comment"
  556. :END:
  557.  
  558.  
  559. I think &#x2F;e&#x2F; ( <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;e.foundation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;e.foundation</a>) promising in that respect, and in the longer run maybe puri.sm Librem5.
  560.  
  561. ** amaccuish
  562. :PROPERTIES:
  563. :BY: "amaccuish"
  564. :ID: 18370287
  565. :PARENT: 18370159
  566. :TEXT: "This guy was a saviour. I was poking round his blog after reading this, and found his review for elementaryOS where he mentions how to get the system tray working. I&#x27;ve been searching for months to get it working."
  567. :TIME: 1541255205
  568. :TYPE: "comment"
  569. :END:
  570.  
  571.  
  572. This guy was a saviour. I was poking round his blog after reading this, and found his review for elementaryOS where he mentions how to get the system tray working. I&#x27;ve been searching for months to get it working.
  573.  
  574. ** swozey
  575. :PROPERTIES:
  576. :BY: "swozey"
  577. :ID: 18370473
  578. :PARENT: 18370159
  579. :TEXT: "He missed the thing that&#x27;s getting me really close to leaving Android after being a devout user since the G1 (with a short 3-5 month stint on an Iphone 6). I really, really dislike IOS and I absolutely don&#x27;t want to be more tied to Apple than I am with my MBP and Hackintosh (technically I&#x27;m just tied to OSX right now).<p>RCS (the Android attempt at iMessage) is STILL not a real-world thing. Txt messaging and MMS on Android is still an absolute joke. My Samsung S8 has, what, a 12-megapixel camera (I never look at these specs anymore) that can take incredible pictures and videos but if I want to send them to someone I have to jump through a bunch of hoops. Upload them to dropbox, share it, send my friend the link, hope they click it vs it just playing in their messaging app.<p>If I send that video via text message it gets compressed to a 500kb blurry mess. I frequently have to explain to people that Androids don&#x27;t take terrible pictures, my phone takes amazing pictures. The problem is when I send them to you I&#x27;m limited to the maximums of text messaging because phone providers haven&#x27;t rolled out RCS. It also doesn&#x27;t help that the Snapchat app back when I used to use it just took a screenshot of our camera app. That further shouted, &quot;Android sucks at pictures, what a peasant phone!&quot;<p>Tmobile has RCS now but it only works between Tmobile Android users who are using the stock messaging app. They might even need a recent phone with a specific version of Android, I&#x27;m not sure there. They rolled this out in June 2018. 2018! How long has imessage been around? And I still have never seen it actually kick in because 90% of the people I txt are on iphones. I also HAVE to use the built-in Messaging app to get this because the RCS API wasn&#x27;t (not sure if it is now) public so other messaging apps couldn&#x27;t send over RCS. If I use the Samsung messaging app then I lose the web messaging feature that the Google Messaging app gives me. The Google Messaging app is terrible, though, it doesn&#x27;t even have the ability to click a person&#x27;s name and see all of the media shared between us like the good messaging apps do. I have to literally scroll and scroll and scroll to see a picture that I&#x27;ve been sent.<p>There are all these tradeoffs just for messaging. Do I want an easy web experience so I don&#x27;t have to pick my phone up every time I get a text? Then I lose the file library when you click a contacts name. Do I want RCS? I&#x27;m not even sure which Messaging app to use for it. It&#x27;s either Samsung Messaging or I need to download Tmobile messaging.<p>I don&#x27;t follow it but I don&#x27;t believe ATT&#x2F;Verizon are even going to roll out RCS, I believe they have their own implementation coming (somedayTM). Unless their &quot;Advanced Messaging&quot; is just RCS. Will that work with Tmobile users? Or will it just be between ATT customers?<p>I have plenty of other complaints about Android lately. Privacy, per-app notifications are a mess (I no longer have a global notification setting, each app has it&#x27;s own which sounds great on paper but now I get so many different notification sounds I couldn&#x27;t tell you what half of them are even coming from until I look at the phone). I just bought some Bluetooth 5 headphones on my BT5 capable S8 and I have no idea if it&#x27;s even using BT5, the sound still skips when I&#x27;m jogging if the phone isn&#x27;t in the right pocket.<p>I LOVE the customization of Android and the lack of it is what I dislike about IOS but I&#x27;m to the point where I just want a smooth UX."
  580. :TIME: 1541257017
  581. :TYPE: "comment"
  582. :END:
  583.  
  584.  
  585. He missed the thing that&#x27;s getting me really close to leaving Android after being a devout user since the G1 (with a short 3-5 month stint on an Iphone 6). I really, really dislike IOS and I absolutely don&#x27;t want to be more tied to Apple than I am with my MBP and Hackintosh (technically I&#x27;m just tied to OSX right now).<p>RCS (the Android attempt at iMessage) is STILL not a real-world thing. Txt messaging and MMS on Android is still an absolute joke. My Samsung S8 has, what, a 12-megapixel camera (I never look at these specs anymore) that can take incredible pictures and videos but if I want to send them to someone I have to jump through a bunch of hoops. Upload them to dropbox, share it, send my friend the link, hope they click it vs it just playing in their messaging app.<p>If I send that video via text message it gets compressed to a 500kb blurry mess. I frequently have to explain to people that Androids don&#x27;t take terrible pictures, my phone takes amazing pictures. The problem is when I send them to you I&#x27;m limited to the maximums of text messaging because phone providers haven&#x27;t rolled out RCS. It also doesn&#x27;t help that the Snapchat app back when I used to use it just took a screenshot of our camera app. That further shouted, &quot;Android sucks at pictures, what a peasant phone!&quot;<p>Tmobile has RCS now but it only works between Tmobile Android users who are using the stock messaging app. They might even need a recent phone with a specific version of Android, I&#x27;m not sure there. They rolled this out in June 2018. 2018! How long has imessage been around? And I still have never seen it actually kick in because 90% of the people I txt are on iphones. I also HAVE to use the built-in Messaging app to get this because the RCS API wasn&#x27;t (not sure if it is now) public so other messaging apps couldn&#x27;t send over RCS. If I use the Samsung messaging app then I lose the web messaging feature that the Google Messaging app gives me. The Google Messaging app is terrible, though, it doesn&#x27;t even have the ability to click a person&#x27;s name and see all of the media shared between us like the good messaging apps do. I have to literally scroll and scroll and scroll to see a picture that I&#x27;ve been sent.<p>There are all these tradeoffs just for messaging. Do I want an easy web experience so I don&#x27;t have to pick my phone up every time I get a text? Then I lose the file library when you click a contacts name. Do I want RCS? I&#x27;m not even sure which Messaging app to use for it. It&#x27;s either Samsung Messaging or I need to download Tmobile messaging.<p>I don&#x27;t follow it but I don&#x27;t believe ATT&#x2F;Verizon are even going to roll out RCS, I believe they have their own implementation coming (somedayTM). Unless their &quot;Advanced Messaging&quot; is just RCS. Will that work with Tmobile users? Or will it just be between ATT customers?<p>I have plenty of other complaints about Android lately. Privacy, per-app notifications are a mess (I no longer have a global notification setting, each app has it&#x27;s own which sounds great on paper but now I get so many different notification sounds I couldn&#x27;t tell you what half of them are even coming from until I look at the phone). I just bought some Bluetooth 5 headphones on my BT5 capable S8 and I have no idea if it&#x27;s even using BT5, the sound still skips when I&#x27;m jogging if the phone isn&#x27;t in the right pocket.<p>I LOVE the customization of Android and the lack of it is what I dislike about IOS but I&#x27;m to the point where I just want a smooth UX.
  586.  
  587. ** sergiotapia
  588. :PROPERTIES:
  589. :BY: "sergiotapia"
  590. :ID: 18370420
  591. :PARENT: 18370159
  592. :TEXT: "I made the opposite move last month. Ditched my iphone 6+ and went with a Samsung Galaxy S9+.<p>Apple soured me with their bullshit around throttling the CPU to make the battery last the same. No wonder my phone was performing like shit.<p>But here&#x27;s the bad news, this new phone I got is still not so hot. I still run out of battery despite working from home and only using the phone for google maps and calendar&#x2F;slack when I&#x27;m out of office. I don&#x27;t game on it or anything.<p>For my next phone I want to find a much more inexpensive phone, swappable battery, with a long-ass battery time. I would go with a Nokia but I don&#x27;t know if their classic phone supports google maps."
  593. :TIME: 1541256385
  594. :TYPE: "comment"
  595. :END:
  596.  
  597.  
  598. I made the opposite move last month. Ditched my iphone 6+ and went with a Samsung Galaxy S9+.<p>Apple soured me with their bullshit around throttling the CPU to make the battery last the same. No wonder my phone was performing like shit.<p>But here&#x27;s the bad news, this new phone I got is still not so hot. I still run out of battery despite working from home and only using the phone for google maps and calendar&#x2F;slack when I&#x27;m out of office. I don&#x27;t game on it or anything.<p>For my next phone I want to find a much more inexpensive phone, swappable battery, with a long-ass battery time. I would go with a Nokia but I don&#x27;t know if their classic phone supports google maps.
  599.  
  600. ** nil
  601. :PROPERTIES:
  602. :DEAD: t
  603. :DELETED: t
  604. :ID: 18370230
  605. :PARENT: 18370159
  606. :TIME: 1541254535
  607. :TYPE: "comment"
  608. :END:
  609.  
  610.  
  611. nil
  612.  
  613. ** moocowtruck
  614. :PROPERTIES:
  615. :BY: "moocowtruck"
  616. :ID: 18370225
  617. :PARENT: 18370159
  618. :TEXT: "android to iphone.. thats like deciding which gulag you like better"
  619. :TIME: 1541254436
  620. :TYPE: "comment"
  621. :END:
  622.  
  623.  
  624. android to iphone.. thats like deciding which gulag you like better
  625.  
  626. ** diminish
  627. :PROPERTIES:
  628. :BY: "diminish"
  629. :ID: 18370338
  630. :KIDS: [18370410]
  631. :PARENT: 18370159
  632. :TEXT: "I won&#x27;t ditch Android for Apple. Apple is restricted, Safari is a tragedy for the web and prics are too expensive for the value.<p>Somehow I dislike everything Apple represents, and reminds. The design, the simplicity which comes from restrictiveness. Even the lightest Linux window manager like i3wn, is better than all of os&#x2F;x does.<p>I will just wait till a true open source option comes."
  633. :TIME: 1541255630
  634. :TYPE: "comment"
  635. :END:
  636.  
  637.  
  638. I won&#x27;t ditch Android for Apple. Apple is restricted, Safari is a tragedy for the web and prics are too expensive for the value.<p>Somehow I dislike everything Apple represents, and reminds. The design, the simplicity which comes from restrictiveness. Even the lightest Linux window manager like i3wn, is better than all of os&#x2F;x does.<p>I will just wait till a true open source option comes.
  639.  
  640. *** pokemongoaway
  641. :PROPERTIES:
  642. :BY: "pokemongoaway"
  643. :DEAD: t
  644. :ID: 18370410
  645. :PARENT: 18370338
  646. :TEXT: "We just need a de-Googled fork to become popular and supported. For example CopperheadOS."
  647. :TIME: 1541256289
  648. :TYPE: "comment"
  649. :END:
  650.  
  651.  
  652. We just need a de-Googled fork to become popular and supported. For example CopperheadOS.
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