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Talvieno
Apr 5th, 2018
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  1. 16:01:28:22:20 * Talvieno wonders what Naed would say :thinking:
  2. 16:01:28:22:20<+Naed> hm?
  3. 16:01:28:22:20<@Talvieno> Well, naed, players are spending large amounts of creds on their ships.
  4. 16:01:28:22:20<@Talvieno> But, it's quite possible to lose your ship but not die.
  5. 16:01:28:22:20<+Naed> then they are being stupid
  6. 16:01:28:22:20 * Cornflakes raises hand
  7. 16:01:28:22:20<@Talvieno> They're saying I should refund most of their credits if they lose their ship.
  8. 16:01:28:22:20<+Naed> no, you should not
  9. 16:01:28:22:20<+Dinosawer> It's, in fact, very easy to lose your ship.
  10. 16:01:28:22:20<+DigitalDuck> I'm not saying that.
  11. 16:01:28:22:20<@Talvieno> It's also relatively easy to lose your ship.
  12. 16:01:28:22:20<+Cha0zz> Naed nope
  13. 16:01:28:22:20<+Cha0zz> not at all
  14. 16:01:28:22:21<+Cha0zz> it's nothing to do with being stupid
  15. 16:01:28:22:21<+Dinosawer> Extremely easy.
  16. 16:01:28:22:21<+Dinosawer> Like, 2 bad rolls and it's poof.
  17. 16:01:28:22:21<+Naed> let me elaborate a bit here
  18. 16:01:28:22:21<+Cornflakes> 2 bad /passive/ rolls
  19. 16:01:28:22:21<+Naed> before you all jump on me for that stupid comment :)
  20. 16:01:28:22:21<+Cha0zz> it's with time limits, tal making the game hard and people losing their ships in the first turns of a mission while not even doing stupid thigs
  21. 16:01:28:22:21<+Cha0zz> *things
  22. 16:01:28:22:22<+DigitalDuck> Racist accent count: 2 :D
  23. 16:01:28:22:22<+Cornflakes> lol
  24. 16:01:28:22:22<+Cha0zz> eh?
  25. 16:01:28:22:22<+Cornflakes> tintin
  26. 16:01:28:22:22<+Quackbot> Yay! Tintin!
  27. 16:01:28:22:22<+Cha0zz> lol
  28. 16:01:28:22:22<+SilverPC> Hrmm what should the goat do...
  29. 16:01:28:22:22<+Cornflakes> eat some plasma cannons
  30. 16:01:28:22:22<+Cha0zz> baaah?
  31. 16:01:28:22:23<+SilverPC> ... no
  32. 16:01:28:22:23<+Cha0zz> beeeeh?
  33. 16:01:28:22:23<@Talvieno> shhhh
  34. 16:01:28:22:23<@Talvieno> let him elaborate
  35. 16:01:28:22:23<+Cornflakes> buuuuuuh
  36. 16:01:28:22:23<+Naed> REKT functions by a set of rules, how you (the players) understand/interpret those rules are up to you. YOU have to do the work to make certain that you are not digging an early grave for yourself by being "blind". As long as Tal is going by the rules and not making stuff up "just because he can". Then yes, the players that have put all their "eggs" in one basket, should have had a good think before doing so, and realised that "shit
  37. 16:01:28:22:23<+Naed> happens".
  38. 16:01:28:22:24<+Cha0zz> Naed
  39. 16:01:28:22:24<+Dinosawer> What?
  40. 16:01:28:22:24<+DigitalDuck> It's a game.
  41. 16:01:28:22:24<+Naed> so yes, i stand by my comment of the players being stupid.
  42. 16:01:28:22:24<+Cha0zz> that's just not true
  43. 16:01:28:22:24<@Talvieno> I do let players save creds between turns.
  44. 16:01:28:22:24<@Talvieno> Nobody's done that yet though.
  45. 16:01:28:22:24<+Naed> Cha0zz / it very much is true.
  46. 16:01:28:22:24<@Talvieno> *between missions
  47. 16:01:28:22:24<@Talvieno> not really anyway.
  48. 16:01:28:22:24<+Cornflakes> "oops i didnt see that you would explore that obvious shiny thing, now you triggered the double amount of enemies" :V
  49. 16:01:28:22:24<+Dinosawer> And you make the mission's so hard that that is a very stupid thing to do.
  50. 16:01:28:22:24<+Dinosawer> :V
  51. 16:01:28:22:24<+Naed> you, the players are very much the "reason/cause" of your own demise.
  52. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cha0zz> tal tailors it so that losing our ship is a very real possiblity
  53. 16:01:28:22:25<@Talvieno> Corn, I didn't do that :(
  54. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cha0zz> disregarding the path we take
  55. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cornflakes> its what happened, though
  56. 16:01:28:22:25<+Dinosawer> Sly lost his ship in turn 2.
  57. 16:01:28:22:25<@Talvieno> they were already in there, it wasn't punishing anyone.
  58. 16:01:28:22:25<@Talvieno> Sly was stupid, tho.
  59. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cha0zz> and saving creds is not a real option Talvieno
  60. 16:01:28:22:25<+Dinosawer> Well
  61. 16:01:28:22:25<@Talvieno> think we can agree on that one.
  62. 16:01:28:22:25<+DigitalDuck> It's a game.
  63. 16:01:28:22:25<+Dinosawer> He just got a bad dodge roll, tbh.
  64. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cha0zz> because you make it hard
  65. 16:01:28:22:25<+Dinosawer> Yes DigitalDuck and I want the fame to stay fun :p
  66. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cha0zz> DigitalDuck yes we know, thanks for reminding us :V
  67. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cornflakes> and we want to have fun with that game DigitalDuck
  68. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cornflakes> :P
  69. 16:01:28:22:25<+Cha0zz> ^
  70. 16:01:28:22:26<+DigitalDuck> Does it suddenly stop being fun if you die?
  71. 16:01:28:22:26<+Naed> <Cha0zz> and saving creds is not a real option Talvieno <- wrong, oh so very very very wrong. You have however decided that you do not WANT to. Which you cant really blame the GM for.
  72. 16:01:28:22:26<@Talvieno> duck, you can have quackbot say that when chat moves fast and people are talking about REKT. XD
  73. 16:01:28:22:26<+Quackbot> Quaaack!
  74. 16:01:28:22:26<+Cha0zz> Naed
  75. 16:01:28:22:26<+Cha0zz> no
  76. 16:01:28:22:26<+DigitalDuck> I should do, yes.
  77. 16:01:28:22:26<+Naed> Cha0zz / yes.
  78. 16:01:28:22:26<+Cha0zz> nice to see that you have played too Naed
  79. 16:01:28:22:26<+Dinosawer> Naed, the missions are so hard that you need every bit of equipment you can get.
  80. 16:01:28:22:26<+Cha0zz> ^
  81. 16:01:28:22:26<+DigitalDuck> Failing the mission is an option.
  82. 16:01:28:22:26<+Dinosawer> If you don't get all the stuff you are somply way more likely to die.
  83. 16:01:28:22:26<+Naed> no, you guys THINK you need every piece of equipment you can get.
  84. 16:01:28:22:26<+Cornflakes> its either "use all the credits and have a chance to keep the ones you already spent" or "keep those i have still in cash and lose the ones i still invested"
  85. 16:01:28:22:27<+Dinosawer> Well Naed, I'm playing, you're not.
  86. 16:01:28:22:27<+Dinosawer> :p
  87. 16:01:28:22:27<+Cha0zz> ^
  88. 16:01:28:22:27<+Cornflakes> and we are in really deep shit right now without us doing anything stupid
  89. 16:01:28:22:27<+Cha0zz> and DigitalDuck about dying is an option
  90. 16:01:28:22:27<+Cha0zz> yes
  91. 16:01:28:22:28<+DigitalDuck> Herge cameo count: 2
  92. 16:01:28:22:28<+Cha0zz> it is if you want to wait months to start again
  93. 16:01:28:22:28<+Cornflakes> we were in even deeper shit if we werent so smart to get assets tal didnt initially plan us to use
  94. 16:01:28:22:28<+crashlander> aye
  95. 16:01:28:22:28<+DigitalDuck> Failure != dying
  96. 16:01:28:22:28<+Cha0zz> we would all've been dead
  97. 16:01:28:22:28<+SilverPC> Talvieno: REKT question
  98. 16:01:28:22:28<+Naed> Cha0zz and Dinosawer / pull those broomsticks out your arses.As DigitalDuck said. It is a game.
  99. 16:01:28:22:28<+SilverPC> best action for Aegagrus is being decided :D
  100. 16:01:28:22:28<+Cha0zz> Naed we know it's a game
  101. 16:01:28:22:28<+Cornflakes> and we want to have fun with that game :P
  102. 16:01:28:22:28<+SilverPC> you must prepare!
  103. 16:01:28:22:28<@Talvieno> I have so many pings
  104. 16:01:28:22:28<+Dinosawer> And we're discussing a way of making the game rules as fun as possible.
  105. 16:01:28:22:28<+SilverPC> :D
  106. 16:01:28:22:28<+Cornflakes> ^
  107. 16:01:28:22:28<+Cha0zz> ^
  108. 16:01:28:22:28<+Dinosawer> So no insults needed
  109. 16:01:28:22:29<+Dinosawer> :p
  110. 16:01:28:22:29<+crashlander> Naed likes insults
  111. 16:01:28:22:29<+Cha0zz> it's a new game that still needs polish
  112. 16:01:28:22:29<+DigitalDuck> Why not just make every character invincible>
  113. 16:01:28:22:29<+Cha0zz> we suggest polish as test players
  114. 16:01:28:22:29<+DigitalDuck> Then you don't have to wait months or lose credits!
  115. 16:01:28:22:29<+Naed> <Cha0zz> Naed we know it's a game <- you are acting like a bunch of kids whining that you cant "win"
  116. 16:01:28:22:29<+DigitalDuck> Obviously that's so much more fun, right!
  117. 16:01:28:22:29<+Cha0zz> we don't want to "win"
  118. 16:01:28:22:29<+Dinosawer> Sure we are Naed, sure
  119. 16:01:28:22:29<+Cha0zz> we want to have fun
  120. 16:01:28:22:30<+Cha0zz> and dying is not fun if you have to wait for months before you can continue playing
  121. 16:01:28:22:30<+Cornflakes> and surprise bumsax leading to less surprising bumsax afterwards isnt fun :V
  122. 16:01:28:22:30<+Cha0zz> nor is losing everything and making it almost impossible to play
  123. 16:01:28:22:30<+SilverPC> Honestly, I just want to die in the most entertaining way possible :D
  124. 16:01:28:22:30<+crashlander> We loose ships -> we get new, basic one -> we get owned next mission -> the circle repeats
  125. 16:01:28:22:30<+Naed> again. You THINK it will be impossible.
  126. 16:01:28:22:31<+Cha0zz> Naed you think it's not
  127. 16:01:28:22:31<+Cha0zz> yet you haven't even played it
  128. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> crashlander: if we all die, talv will tone down the next mission
  129. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> Dynamic difficulty bro!
  130. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> :D
  131. 16:01:28:22:31<+Naed> Cha0zz / i KNOW it wont be impossible.
  132. 16:01:28:22:31<@Talvieno> Lol, Silver Xd
  133. 16:01:28:22:31<@Talvieno> XD
  134. 16:01:28:22:31<+Cha0zz> how?
  135. 16:01:28:22:31<+Cha0zz> how do you know Naed
  136. 16:01:28:22:31<+Dinosawer> Well, you don't play, so I don't see how you'd know
  137. 16:01:28:22:31<+Cornflakes> and tal generally adheres to his own rules
  138. 16:01:28:22:31<+Naed> Cha0zz / because Talvieno would not be doing his job as GM if it was.
  139. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> :V
  140. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> exactly
  141. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> Dynamic Difficulty
  142. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> keep it fun
  143. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> and challenging
  144. 16:01:28:22:31<@Talvieno> I can't follow chat fast enough.
  145. 16:01:28:22:31<+SilverPC> but not impossible
  146. 16:01:28:22:32<+SilverPC> :D
  147. 16:01:28:22:32<+SilverPC> good
  148. 16:01:28:22:32<+Cha0zz> SilverPC it's not when we all die
  149. 16:01:28:22:32<+Cha0zz> it's when some die
  150. 16:01:28:22:32<+Naed> Cha0zz / and before you go and complain about things that you have bugger all idea about. Sit down, shut up, and restart that brain of yours please.
  151. 16:01:28:22:32<+Cha0zz> that creates a waay to big level difference
  152. 16:01:28:22:32<+Cha0zz> Naed I wasn't complaining
  153. 16:01:28:22:32<+Cornflakes> naed, calm down in attacking us
  154. 16:01:28:22:32<+Dinosawer> Naed, is it really impossible to have a discussion without throwing insults at us?
  155. 16:01:28:22:32<+Cornflakes> ^
  156. 16:01:28:22:32<+DigitalDuck> No, it's not.
  157. 16:01:28:22:32<+crashlander> Naed, we can insult you too
  158. 16:01:28:22:32<+crashlander> would be fun
  159. 16:01:28:22:32<+Cha0zz> and if you think that trowing insults at people is the best way to get what YOU want you need to grow up
  160. 16:01:28:22:33<+Dinosawer> Or acknowledging that maybe we do have an idea what we're talking about?
  161. 16:01:28:22:33<+SilverPC> Why are people being mean? :(
  162. 16:01:28:22:33<@Talvieno> :|
  163. 16:01:28:22:33 * DigitalDuck rolls his eyes.
  164. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> IT'S
  165. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> A
  166. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> FUCKING
  167. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> GAME
  168. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> STOP
  169. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> TAKING
  170. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> IT
  171. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> SO
  172. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> FUCKING
  173. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> SERIOUSLY
  174. 16:01:28:22:33<+Cha0zz> DigitalDuck we know
  175. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> JESUS
  176. 16:01:28:22:33<@Talvieno> wait
  177. 16:01:28:22:33<+Cha0zz> and we know that it's unpolished
  178. 16:01:28:22:33<@Talvieno> jesus is taking my game seriously? o.o
  179. 16:01:28:22:33<+Dinosawer> DigitalDuck, can you knock it off, that's not the point.
  180. 16:01:28:22:33<+crashlander> Jesus won't hel you
  181. 16:01:28:22:33<+Cha0zz> so we suggest improvements
  182. 16:01:28:22:33<+Naed> Dinosawer and Cha0zz / you are the ones that started out with the patronizing.
  183. 16:01:28:22:33<+DigitalDuck> You're acting like it's life and fucking death.
  184. 16:01:28:22:33<+SilverPC> Talvieno: :D
  185. 16:01:28:22:34<+SilverPC> cause it is
  186. 16:01:28:22:34<+SilverPC> for our characters
  187. 16:01:28:22:34<+SilverPC> :D
  188. 16:01:28:22:34<+SilverPC> I like aegagrus
  189. 16:01:28:22:34<+Dinosawer> DigitalDuck, I just want to talk about something and get insulted and called "whiny".
  190. 16:01:28:22:34<+DigitalDuck> What will happen to you guys when something actually important happens to you?
  191. 16:01:28:22:34<+DigitalDuck> Your brains will explode.
  192. 16:01:28:22:34<+SilverPC> like what duck?
  193. 16:01:28:22:34<+DigitalDuck> Illness, loss of loved ones, etc.
  194. 16:01:28:22:35<+DigitalDuck> I find it maddening that you're getting so heated over something so asinine.
  195. 16:01:28:22:35<+crashlander> hmmmm
  196. 16:01:28:22:35<+crashlander> I was in a fire once
  197. 16:01:28:22:35<+Cornflakes> we werent getting heated before naed and you started getting heated :P
  198. 16:01:28:22:35<+crashlander> my brains are still intact
  199. 16:01:28:22:35<+DigitalDuck> You were getting heated.
  200. 16:01:28:22:35<+SilverPC> why shouldnt we, most of us deal with regular bad events easily, but this is a way for us to have fun and let shit out :V
  201. 16:01:28:22:36<+DigitalDuck> You said, "TAL WE WANT TO KEEP MONEY."
  202. 16:01:28:22:36<+DigitalDuck> Tal said, "Naed what do you think?"
  203. 16:01:28:22:36<+DigitalDuck> Nead said, "No."
  204. 16:01:28:22:36<+DigitalDuck> You said "WAAAAH WE WANT TO KEEP MONEY"
  205. 16:01:28:22:36<@Talvieno> I'm seriously overloaded with pings.
  206. 16:01:28:22:36<+Cornflakes> im outta here
  207. 16:01:28:22:36<+Cornflakes> i dont have the patience for this right now
  208. 16:01:28:22:36<@Talvieno> :(
  209. 16:01:28:22:37<+SilverPC> poor CF
  210. 16:01:28:22:37<+SilverPC> :(
  211. 16:01:28:22:37<+Cha0zz> no DigitalDuck we're arguing our point of view
  212. 16:01:28:22:38<+Dinosawer> Naed said "no because x" and we say "we disagreee with x because y"
  213. 16:01:28:22:39<+DV> Aw man, finally finished reading REKTpost.
  214. 16:01:28:22:41<@Talvieno> I'm okay with you guys getting half your creds back. Not full creds tho. That kind of eliminates any sense of risk. At that point the only penalty for dying is just that you have to wait for the next mission, which isn't much of a penalty at all.
  215. 16:01:28:22:41<+Dinosawer> I never proposed full credits
  216. 16:01:28:22:41<+Cha0zz> 1) No-one is asking for full credits
  217. 16:01:28:22:41<+Dinosawer> But if you get back half it's literally better, credit-wise, to kill yourself and make a new character.
  218. 16:01:28:22:41<+SilverPC> Man i suggested half creds at the end of mission 1; as an incentive to people to play more
  219. 16:01:28:22:41<+SilverPC> :(
  220. 16:01:28:22:41<+Dinosawer> I was proposing a serious cut in what you earn after a mission.
  221. 16:01:28:22:42<+Cha0zz> 2) There is still the risk of dying which is currently pretty horrible since you have to wait months to be able to play again
  222. 16:01:28:22:42<+Dinosawer> Which is quite a punishment in itself.
  223. 16:01:28:22:42<+DigitalDuck> Oh no, I can't play a game, whatever will I do?
  224. 16:01:28:22:42<@Talvieno> dino, compared to 50 creds, 5-10 is next to nothing.
  225. 16:01:28:22:42<+Cornflakes> with 5-10 credits per 6 months it is
  226. 16:01:28:22:42<+Dinosawer> But you don't earn those 50
  227. 16:01:28:22:43<+Cha0zz> you forget that you scale the enemy levels Talvieno
  228. 16:01:28:22:43<+Cha0zz> if we go with starters gear we just don't do damage
  229. 16:01:28:22:43<+Dinosawer> 5 credits is an enormous amount.
  230. 16:01:28:22:43<+Cha0zz> ^
  231. 16:01:28:22:43<+Cornflakes> ^
  232. 16:01:28:22:43<+SilverPC> Talvieno: just leave the current rules in place, but allow players who have played multiple missions before, to start a new char with more credits and experience than a newbie char.
  233. 16:01:28:22:43<+Dinosawer> SilverPC, those are already there :p
  234. 16:01:28:22:44<+SilverPC> then aegagrus should have started off better than he did? :V
  235. 16:01:28:22:44<+Dinosawer> No
  236. 16:01:28:22:44<+Dinosawer> you never finished a mission
  237. 16:01:28:22:44<+SilverPC> Im not saying finished, Im saying played in
  238. 16:01:28:22:44<+Dinosawer> The rules say finish
  239. 16:01:28:22:44<+SilverPC> that way the bonus is reasonably fair
  240. 16:01:28:22:44<+Dinosawer> http://lt-rekt.wikidot.com/stats-and-skills#toc3
  241. 16:01:28:22:45<+SilverPC> anyone who started earlier in the REKT timeline starts at a better position
  242. 16:01:28:22:45<+Naed> As mentioned previously, there are rules. Those rules are obeyed by all, even the GM. Yet all you are currently doing is talking about how "hard" your life in the game is. You are, no matter how you slice and dice it. Comaplaining/whining about how Talvieno runs the game. Yet you are all so "set" in your way of thinking that you quite literally cant see the trees for the forest you are in. The amount of slack that Talvieno must be
  243. 16:01:28:22:45<+Naed> giving you guys behind the GM screen must be off the charts.
  244. 16:01:28:22:45<+Dinosawer> That's not really what we're talking about, though.
  245. 16:01:28:22:45<+Naed> With that said: Read and re-read the rules. And the try to understand them, because even from the so called "outside". It is blatantly obvious that a fair chunk of you have bugger all idea about how a game like this actually works (a game with a GM that is). Do you honestly think that a GM would wipe everyone out just for a laugh? <- if yes. I would advise you to say sorry to Talvieno, because you are basically pissing him up one
  246. 16:01:28:22:45<+Naed> side and down the other then. Have faith in your GM to lead you on a experience/story that, like life, goes up and down.
  247. 16:01:28:22:45<+Naed> And if any of that comes as a surprise. then read the rules, again.
  248. 16:01:28:22:45<+Cha0zz> Naed you may not know it but the rules are constantly adapted and changed
  249. 16:01:28:22:45<+Cha0zz> why?
  250. 16:01:28:22:45<+Cha0zz> because they are unfinished
  251. 16:01:28:22:46<@Talvieno> not at all constantly.
  252. 16:01:28:22:46<+Dinosawer> We've been suggesting improvements for the rules all the time, because they're new. Now we're suddenly whiners for doing exactly that. Why?
  253. 16:01:28:22:46<+Naed> And no, there is no TLDR. Read.
  254. 16:01:28:22:46<+DigitalDuck> ^
  255. 16:01:28:22:46<@Talvieno> I actually haven't changed them pretty much at all after the first mission.
  256. 16:01:28:22:46<+Dinosawer> It's a rule that has never even been actually used so far.
  257. 16:01:28:22:46<+crashlander> :D
  258. 16:01:28:22:46<+DigitalDuck> If it hasn't been used how can you possibly complain about it?
  259. 16:01:28:22:47<+DigitalDuck> How can you know what effect it will have on your character?
  260. 16:01:28:22:47<+Dinosawer> Because I read it
  261. 16:01:28:22:47<+Dinosawer> :p
  262. 16:01:28:22:47<+SilverPC> cause all the people who started mission one and survived are running mission 2
  263. 16:01:28:22:47<+DigitalDuck> Naed reads REKT.
  264. 16:01:28:22:47<+DigitalDuck> Yet you seem to think that means he's unqualified to comment on it.
  265. 16:01:28:22:47<+Cha0zz> Talvieno changed or fleshed out I mean
  266. 16:01:28:22:47<+SilverPC> I just feel like the rule is a bit too tough on people who play and get killed towards the end of a mission or by stupid dice rolls
  267. 16:01:28:22:48<+crashlander> Total Hull Loss makes you incompetitive
  268. 16:01:28:22:48<+crashlander> as easy as that
  269. 16:01:28:22:48<@Talvieno> Silver, I'm mildly inclined to agree on that point.
  270. 16:01:28:22:48<+SilverPC> hull loss doesnt, you get a free one
  271. 16:01:28:22:48<@Talvieno> It is difficult to start off as a new player.
  272. 16:01:28:22:48<+Dinosawer> Well, a fair part of the chars up top are close to losing their ship because they're just doing the mission. Not because they're doing stupid shit.
  273. 16:01:28:22:48<+Naed> SilverPC / Dice rolls are what they are. Again, the rules are the rules. The game is a game based on dice rolls. Shit happens.
  274. 16:01:28:22:48<+SilverPC> naed shush, I know that
  275. 16:01:28:22:49<+Cha0zz> Naed you keep stating the same thing
  276. 16:01:28:22:49<+SilverPC> you are being overly negative, and honestly, quite insulting
  277. 16:01:28:22:49<+Cha0zz> but rekt is a NEW game
  278. 16:01:28:22:49<+Dinosawer> There are gradations of shit.
  279. 16:01:28:22:49<+Cha0zz> the rules might not be perfect for a fun game
  280. 16:01:28:22:49<+DigitalDuck> See, you complain when someone insults you but the instant they talk you tell them to shush.
  281. 16:01:28:22:49<+Cha0zz> did you consider that?
  282. 16:01:28:22:49<+Naed> Cha0zz / because you are not actually "listening/comprehending" and if you are, you are doing a bang up job of not showing it.
  283. 16:01:28:22:49<@Talvieno> cha0zz - :(
  284. 16:01:28:22:49<+SilverPC> duck what?
  285. 16:01:28:22:49<+crashlander> duck
  286. 16:01:28:22:49<+Cha0zz> Talvieno why :( ?
  287. 16:01:28:22:49<+Dinosawer> I'm ok with "shit I lose stuff". I'm not okay with "shit I lose everything I got the last 2 years".
  288. 16:01:28:22:49<+crashlander> let us finish
  289. 16:01:28:22:49<+Naed> Cha0zz / did you ever consider that you have no idea about what you just said?
  290. 16:01:28:22:49<+crashlander> not an insult
  291. 16:01:28:22:50<+crashlander> duck, fuck off
  292. 16:01:28:22:50<+crashlander> isn one
  293. 16:01:28:22:50<+DigitalDuck> SHUSH I KNOW THAT
  294. 16:01:28:22:50<+DigitalDuck> SHUT UP
  295. 16:01:28:22:50<+DigitalDuck> GOD
  296. 16:01:28:22:50<+crashlander> why are we trying to derail arguments instead of refuting them?
  297. 16:01:28:22:50<+SilverPC> really duck, thats going a bit far
  298. 16:01:28:22:50<+DigitalDuck> I'm doing what you're doing.
  299. 16:01:28:22:50<+Cornflakes> naed, why are you avoiding the actual discussion?
  300. 16:01:28:22:50<+Cha0zz> I'm going away for a bit I don't think that I can continue to discuss this calmly
  301. 16:01:28:22:50<+Cornflakes> cha0zz makes a statement, and all you reply is "you have no clue"
  302. 16:01:28:22:50<+Naed> Cornflakes / which in your opinion is what exactly?
  303. 16:01:28:22:51<+DigitalDuck> Naed isn't avoiding the discussion.
  304. 16:01:28:22:51-!- Cha0zz is now known as Cha0zz[AFK]
  305. 16:01:28:22:51<+Cornflakes> looks to me like it
  306. 16:01:28:22:51<@Talvieno> Can we all just be a little calmer here please? :\
  307. 16:01:28:22:51<+crashlander> we are trying
  308. 16:01:28:22:51<+SilverPC> yeah :|
  309. 16:01:28:22:51<@Talvieno> More considerate?
  310. 16:01:28:22:51<@Talvieno> We're not enemies here.
  311. 16:01:28:22:51<+SilverPC> aegagrus might be but he is not here :V
  312. 16:01:28:22:51<@Talvieno> Any change I make or do not make is intended to make or keep the game fun.
  313. 16:01:28:22:52<@Talvieno> If I do or do not want to do something, there is a reason for it.
  314. 16:01:28:22:52<+Cornflakes> ((hopefully :V))
  315. 16:01:28:22:52<+Dinosawer> Yes, but you haven't really said anything about it.
  316. 16:01:28:22:52<+SilverPC> he has actually dino :P
  317. 16:01:28:22:52<+Dinosawer> I'm perfectly fine with a penalty for losing your ship.
  318. 16:01:28:22:52<+Dinosawer> There SHOULD be one.
  319. 16:01:28:22:53<+Dinosawer> I simply want to discuss it's magnitude.
  320. 16:01:28:22:53<+SilverPC> I thought the penalty was losing the ship?
  321. 16:01:28:22:53<+SilverPC> and all the things on it
  322. 16:01:28:22:53<+SilverPC> and you got given a new casket
  323. 16:01:28:22:53<+Dinosawer> Yes, atm it is.
  324. 16:01:28:22:53<+SilverPC> but not new items
  325. 16:01:28:22:53<+SilverPC> thats fair
  326. 16:01:28:22:53<+Dinosawer> Which means you lose all your non-exp progress.
  327. 16:01:28:22:53<+SilverPC> as survival means you get cash at the end for salvage and winning
  328. 16:01:28:22:53<+Dinosawer> Everything you earned in the last years.
  329. 16:01:28:22:54<+SilverPC> only if its all invested in the ship
  330. 16:01:28:22:54<+Dinosawer> What else is there?
  331. 16:01:28:22:54<+Cornflakes> theres not much else to invest in
  332. 16:01:28:22:54<+SilverPC> and who has said you cant salvage the laser off your ship
  333. 16:01:28:22:54<+crashlander> yeah
  334. 16:01:28:22:54<+Dinosawer> Everything is ship
  335. 16:01:28:22:54<+DigitalDuck> Infantry weapons?
  336. 16:01:28:22:54<+Dinosawer> infantry is free.
  337. 16:01:28:22:54<+crashlander> it's not like you can buy hookers
  338. 16:01:28:22:54<+DigitalDuck> Sure, but still.
  339. 16:01:28:22:54<+Dinosawer> You can invest maybe 5 creds into infantry
  340. 16:01:28:22:54<+Dinosawer> and that's it.
  341. 16:01:28:22:54<+DigitalDuck> 5 credits is a lot, Dino.
  342. 16:01:28:22:54<+SilverPC> then suggest more infantry items? :P
  343. 16:01:28:22:54<+crashlander> you can't carry them all
  344. 16:01:28:22:55<+Dinosawer> DigitalDuck, it doesn't count up towards higher levels, though.
  345. 16:01:28:22:55<+SilverPC> suggest items that let you carry more? :V
  346. 16:01:28:22:55<+Dinosawer> It stays 5 creds while your ship might get 30.
  347. 16:01:28:22:55<+Dinosawer> Or 50.
  348. 16:01:28:22:55<+SilverPC> like a backpack :P
  349. 16:01:28:22:55<+Cornflakes> we already have a backpack
  350. 16:01:28:22:55<+crashlander> yes
  351. 16:01:28:22:55<+Cornflakes> per default
  352. 16:01:28:22:55<+crashlander> we are limited by strength
  353. 16:01:28:22:55<+SilverPC> if you have spent that much on your ship, then you are likely to die with it
  354. 16:01:28:22:56<+Cornflakes> not really
  355. 16:01:28:22:56<+SilverPC> and likely to earn more from any given mission anyway
  356. 16:01:28:22:56<+Cornflakes> i smashed two ships yet
  357. 16:01:28:22:56<+Cornflakes> and didnt die with them once
  358. 16:01:28:22:56<+Dinosawer> SilverPC, Tonon lost his ship in turn 2.
  359. 16:01:28:22:56<+Detritus> Just learned about Jaundice o.O
  360. 16:01:28:22:56<+crashlander> and didn't do it by being stupid, I might add
  361. 16:01:28:22:56<+Cornflakes> the first one maybe :V
  362. 16:01:28:22:56<+crashlander> Flakes, not Tonon
  363. 16:01:28:22:56<+Detritus> (sry to interrupt)
  364. 16:01:28:22:57<+crashlander> and more advanced ships are geared for survival
  365. 16:01:28:22:57<+Dinosawer> There's a lot of people who have serious ship damage after 1 turn of combat, and not because they did stupid things.
  366. 16:01:28:22:57<+Dinosawer> (like BFett)
  367. 16:01:28:22:57<+SilverPC> and how many credits had he invested in that
  368. 16:01:28:22:57<+Dinosawer> 5
  369. 16:01:28:22:57<+crashlander> all :)
  370. 16:01:28:22:57<+SilverPC> and how much will he get if he survives the mission?
  371. 16:01:28:22:57<+SilverPC> :V
  372. 16:01:28:22:57<+Dinosawer> And BFett, about 25?
  373. 16:01:28:22:57<+Dinosawer> And he'll get 5-10
  374. 16:01:28:22:57<+Dinosawer> Sooooo
  375. 16:01:28:22:57<+SilverPC> exactly
  376. 16:01:28:22:57<+SilverPC> he will be reimbursed fully
  377. 16:01:28:22:57<+Dinosawer> What
  378. 16:01:28:22:58<+SilverPC> if he can salvage parts of his ship too
  379. 16:01:28:22:58<+Dinosawer> since when is 25=5-10
  380. 16:01:28:22:58<+SilverPC> those will be free
  381. 16:01:28:22:58<+SilverPC> <Dinosawer>: 5 < -
  382. 16:01:28:22:58<+Dinosawer> You can't salvage if your ship is exploded SilverPC
  383. 16:01:28:22:58<+Naed> remember the comment about putting all your eggs in one basket?
  384. 16:01:28:22:58-!- Talvieno is now known as tal_in_dev_meeting
  385. 16:01:28:22:58<+SilverPC> I agree with Naed on that one
  386. 16:01:28:22:58<+DigitalDuck> Nah, obviously we need egg insurance.
  387. 16:01:28:22:58<+Cornflakes> we only have that one basket
  388. 16:01:28:22:59<+SilverPC> egg insurance however COULD be a thing
  389. 16:01:28:22:59<+Naed> DigitalDuck / you are biased on that one, being a duck and all
  390. 16:01:28:22:59<+Dinosawer> Naed, I know, but the difficulty level requires as much stuff as we need. We're likely to lose a lot of people as it is.
  391. 16:01:28:22:59<+DigitalDuck> True. :D
  392. 16:01:28:22:59<@tal_in_dev_meeting> Dinosawer> There's a lot of people who have serious ship damage after 1 turn of combat, and not because they did stupid things.
  393. 16:01:28:22:59<@tal_in_dev_meeting> <Dinosawer> (like BFett)
  394. 16:01:28:22:59<@tal_in_dev_meeting> Not true.
  395. 16:01:28:22:59<@tal_in_dev_meeting> BFett tried to back up two kilometers.
  396. 16:01:28:22:59<+Quackbot> Quaack!!
  397. 16:01:28:22:59<+Dinosawer> That was the turn before tal :p
  398. 16:01:28:22:59<+DigitalDuck> No, Quackbot. "back", not "quack".
  399. 16:01:28:22:59<+Quackbot> QUACK!
  400. 16:01:28:22:59<@tal_in_dev_meeting> Fallout from stupid decisions can carry on to later turns.
  401. 16:01:28:22:59<+Naed> Dinosawer / you have to remember that your GM is doing what he is doing for a reason. Trust your GM.
  402. 16:01:28:23:00<+SilverPC> tal_in_dev_meeting: how would you feel about insurance, pay 1 credit per mission to have it, and then pay a Excess of like 20% of the ships cost if it explodes?
  403. 16:01:28:23:00<+Dinosawer> I trust him.
  404. 16:01:28:23:00<+Dinosawer> That doesn't mean I can't make a suggestion.
  405. 16:01:28:23:00<+Cornflakes> ^
  406. 16:01:28:23:00<+Dinosawer> As I have many times before.
  407. 16:01:28:23:00<@tal_in_dev_meeting> it doesn't feel like suggestions from my perspective tho, in this case.
  408. 16:01:28:23:00<+DigitalDuck> Yes, but you're making the assumption that he's killing people for no reason.
  409. 16:01:28:23:00<+SilverPC> (mine is :V)
  410. 16:01:28:23:01<+Naed> what DigitalDuck just said.
  411. 16:01:28:23:01<+Dinosawer> Well, he did say he wanted at least a fifth of the people to die this mission, soooooo
  412. 16:01:28:23:01<+SilverPC> My only complaint was about having to complete a mission to get the benefit of starting with a slightly better character
  413. 16:01:28:23:01<+DigitalDuck> If that's what you feel, then THAT'S what you need to talk about. Not the whole death compensation thing.
  414. 16:01:28:23:01<+Naed> Dinosawer / what he says and what he does. Are not necesarrily the same thing.
  415. 16:01:28:23:01<+SilverPC> dice also fall where they may
  416. 16:01:28:23:01<+Dinosawer> Well, sure. But even then there's the random factor.
  417. 16:01:28:23:01<+Naed> that too SilverPC
  418. 16:01:28:23:02<+Naed> Dinosawer / yes, because it is a game.
  419. 16:01:28:23:02<+SilverPC> So what about the insurance option I suggested up there then guys? would that work?
  420. 16:01:28:23:02<+DigitalDuck> There's the random factor, but Tal is GM.
  421. 16:01:28:23:02<+DigitalDuck> If Tal is making you die when you've done nothing wrong, that's on Tal.
  422. 16:01:28:23:02<+SilverPC> or more likely on the dice :V
  423. 16:01:28:23:02<+DigitalDuck> No.
  424. 16:01:28:23:03<+Naed> <DigitalDuck> If Tal is making you die when you've done nothing wrong, that's on Tal. <- Bingo!'
  425. 16:01:28:23:03<+SilverPC> I dont agree with that
  426. 16:01:28:23:03<+SilverPC> not doing something wrong isnt the same as doing the right thing
  427. 16:01:28:23:03<+Dinosawer> Other point: currently you get more creds if you die and make a second char then of you lose your ship and live.
  428. 16:01:28:23:03<+Naed> As said previously, Trust your GM to deliver an experience/story to you.
  429. 16:01:28:23:03<+Dinosawer> Which seems..odd.
  430. 16:01:28:23:03<+DigitalDuck> The GM is not a slave to the dice, SilverPC.
  431. 16:01:28:23:04<+Naed> SilverPC / you do not have the necessary information to know that.
  432. 16:01:28:23:04<@tal_in_dev_meeting> well, we can delete that rule then, dino, because it doesn't make sense. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  433. 16:01:28:23:04<+Dinosawer> I'm not sure what you're getting at now
  434. 16:01:28:23:04<+DigitalDuck> Permadeath for everyone!
  435. 16:01:28:23:04<+DigitalDuck> \o/
  436. 16:01:28:23:04<+SilverPC> Nor do you Naed
  437. 16:01:28:23:04<+Taiya> \o/
  438. 16:01:28:23:05<+Naed> SilverPC / i aint saying i do. But i have played enough games both as player and GM to recognise situations where a GM cant tell you without spoiling things for you.
  439. 16:01:28:23:05<+Naed> and what you are talking about there, is a situation like that.
  440. 16:01:28:23:05-!- Cha0zz[AFK] is now known as Cha0zz
  441. 16:01:28:23:06<+Cha0zz> I'm going
  442. 16:01:28:23:06<+Dinosawer> Tal, I'm not suggesting removing the second char rules and you know that :p
  443. 16:01:28:23:06<+crashlander> see you cha0zz o/
  444. 16:01:28:23:06<+Cha0zz> good luck figuring it out everyone
  445. 16:01:28:23:06<+Taiya> o/
  446. 16:01:28:23:06<+Cha0zz> o/
  447. 16:01:28:23:06<+Dinosawer> later Cha0zz
  448. 16:01:28:23:06<+Oddly> gn
  449. 16:01:28:23:06<+Naed> enjoy Cha0zz
  450. 16:01:28:23:06<@tal_in_dev_meeting> o/ see you later, cha0zz
  451. 16:01:28:23:06<+DigitalDuck> Have fun.
  452. 16:01:28:23:06<+Cha0zz> >.>
  453. 16:01:28:23:06<+Cornflakes> errrrr
  454. 16:01:28:23:06<+Cha0zz> why do you keep saying have fun?
  455. 16:01:28:23:06<+Cornflakes> where did we touch anything that could be spoilery?
  456. 16:01:28:23:06<+DigitalDuck> It's one way of saying "bye"?
  457. 16:01:28:23:07<+Cha0zz> oh
  458. 16:01:28:23:07<+SilverPC> Naed, no, I have played as both GM and player enough times too, if the player doesnt have enough info and is making poor decisions because of it, thats on the player. The player ALWAYS has a way of gathering info
  459. 16:01:28:23:07<+Cha0zz> didn't know that
  460. 16:01:28:23:07<+DigitalDuck> Be good, have fun, enjoy yourself, etc.
  461. 16:01:28:23:07<+Cha0zz> sounded a bit odd :P
  462. 16:01:28:23:07<+Cha0zz> thanks though
  463. 16:01:28:23:07<+Cha0zz> ciao
  464. 16:01:28:23:07<+Oddly> odd is my middle name
  465. 16:01:28:23:07<+Naed> Cornflakes / anytime you ask a GM for a "reason" for X action, you are going very close to that.
  466. 16:01:28:23:07<+DigitalDuck> The job of the player is to make good decisions based on the information they have.
  467. 16:01:28:23:07<+Naed> SilverPC / from my POV, the players are not taking advantage of what they rules give them.
  468. 16:01:28:23:08<+Oddly> by the way guys, black sails season 3 just started
  469. 16:01:28:23:08<+Naed> they rules= the rules
  470. 16:01:28:23:08<+DigitalDuck> If the player is making poor decisions based on the information they have, that's on them.
  471. 16:01:28:23:08<+DigitalDuck> If the player is making good decisions based on the information they have, but it turns out to have adverse effects that the player can never recover from, that's on the GM.
  472. 16:01:28:23:09<+SilverPC> Duck, that means the player has made a poor decision, part of having incomplete information is knowing when it's useful to not act according to it.
  473. 16:01:28:23:09<+crashlander> Right now, it's more efficient money-wise to shoot yourself in the head and start a new character. You'll partially loose the points but you can always tailor them well to use that cool weaponry you can buy. And it doesn't feel right that penalty for death can be lower than penalty for a hull loss.
  474. 16:01:28:23:09<+SilverPC> crash I feel thats wrong, more weapons does not in anyway trump more skills
  475. 16:01:28:23:10<+SilverPC> better to lose a few extra weapons than the better dice rolls
  476. 16:01:28:23:10<+DigitalDuck> No, I mean a good decision based on the information they have, SilvePC.
  477. 16:01:28:23:10<+TGS> No win/No recovery situations are bad, but if you're ever in a situation where you can make a few poor decisions and never recover from it, that to me is a badly designed game structure which yes is a result of bad GMing.
  478. 16:01:28:23:10<+crashlander> moar weapons = moar attacks in REKT
  479. 16:01:28:23:10<+SilverPC> duck what seems like a good decision at the time to the player isnt always a good decision.
  480. 16:01:28:23:10<+Dinosawer> SilverPC, that's mathematically false.
  481. 16:01:28:23:11<+Dinosawer> You have better odds of hitting with more weapons and lower stats.
  482. 16:01:28:23:11<+crashlander> moar attacks = more damage to the enemy
  483. 16:01:28:23:11<+DigitalDuck> Right, but if a good decision leads to irrecoverable failure then it's the fault of the GM, not the player.
  484. 16:01:28:23:11<+SilverPC> only if you hit crash, dino then the balance is wrong there
  485. 16:01:28:23:11<+Dinosawer> Only if I what
  486. 16:01:28:23:11-!- crashlander is now known as outlander
  487. 16:01:28:23:11<+outlander> :)
  488. 16:01:28:23:11<@DWMagus> Wow, that was heated.
  489. 16:01:28:23:12<+Dinosawer> No, I just did the math.
  490. 16:01:28:23:12<+Dinosawer> :p
  491. 16:01:28:23:12 * Cornflakes hands magus the popcorn bucket
  492. 16:01:28:23:12<@DWMagus> I come back and see more in my history in the last hour than all day.
  493. 16:01:28:23:12<+SilverPC> Duck no not always, the GM can only lead the player towards the correct decision
  494. 16:01:28:23:12<+SilverPC> dinosawer; no Im saying the games balance is wrong, not your math
  495. 16:01:28:23:12<+Dinosawer> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  496. 16:01:28:23:12<+DigitalDuck> No, SilverPC, the GM can control the outcomes of decisions.
  497. 16:01:28:23:12<@tal_in_dev_meeting> sorry DWMagus, they're ranting about my GM skills.
  498. 16:01:28:23:12<+outlander> the rules are rules :)
  499. 16:01:28:23:12<+outlander> nope
  500. 16:01:28:23:12<@DWMagus> I noticed.
  501. 16:01:28:23:12<+outlander> not at all
  502. 16:01:28:23:12<+SilverPC> I think tal is a good DM :V
  503. 16:01:28:23:13<+DigitalDuck> ^
  504. 16:01:28:23:13<+Dinosawer> We're not Tal :p
  505. 16:01:28:23:13<+Cornflakes> except when you have to write half essays to cover iTALian strikes
  506. 16:01:28:23:13<+Cornflakes> :V
  507. 16:01:28:23:13<@DWMagus> Tal: Best thing I can say, is be more steadfast. What you're experiencing as a GM feels very similar how most indie developers feel when doing crowdfundng.
  508. 16:01:28:23:13<+SilverPC> I think duck blames the DM for more than the DM should be blamed for
  509. 16:01:28:23:13<+DigitalDuck> ?
  510. 16:01:28:23:13<+outlander> we are saying that a ruleset that makes it easier to start over after you've lost your ship in REKT might need to be adjusted a bit.
  511. 16:01:28:23:13<+DigitalDuck> What?
  512. 16:01:28:23:13<+DigitalDuck> The other way around, surely?
  513. 16:01:28:23:13<@DWMagus> Nah, Naed and Duck just don't want the GM holding peoples' hands.
  514. 16:01:28:23:14<+SilverPC> if the players make what they think is a good decision, but only looks that way because the players havent gathered enough info, then thats on the players
  515. 16:01:28:23:14<+SilverPC> not on the DM
  516. 16:01:28:23:14<@tal_in_dev_meeting> I know, hence why I suggested removing the odd rule about starting over, OR giving half back if you lose your ship but don't die.
  517. 16:01:28:23:14<+DigitalDuck> THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID
  518. 16:01:28:23:14<+SilverPC> if the DM never allows a player to gather that info, then thats on the DM
  519. 16:01:28:23:14<+DigitalDuck> REEEEAAAAD
  520. 16:01:28:23:14<@tal_in_dev_meeting> (at outlander)
  521. 16:01:28:23:15<+SilverPC> <DigitalDuck>: Right, but if a good decision leads to irrecoverable failure then it's the fault of the GM, not the player. <- Im saying a the player is not making the absolute good desision
  522. 16:01:28:23:15<@DWMagus> Tal: Personally I prefer things like permadeath or at least permanent loss. You can always tailor the campaign further out to help make up for it. Kind of like a 'scripted event' you see in video games.
  523. 16:01:28:23:15<+DigitalDuck> SilverPC: But I am.
  524. 16:01:28:23:15<+Dinosawer> tal_in_dev_meeting, I'm not averse of that, but a second char gets half +5. That's what I'm saying.
  525. 16:01:28:23:15<+SilverPC> Duck, we havent had a single instance of that happen in REKT
  526. 16:01:28:23:15<+Dinosawer> If you want to do it that way, fine by me.
  527. 16:01:28:23:15<+DigitalDuck> No, I agree.
  528. 16:01:28:23:15<+SilverPC> then why were you arguing that point? :V
  529. 16:01:28:23:15<+Dinosawer> You're da boss.
  530. 16:01:28:23:15<@tal_in_dev_meeting> well, then, let's remove the odd rule, which kinda got thrown in there without me really thinking it through.
  531. 16:01:28:23:16<+Dinosawer> what
  532. 16:01:28:23:16<+outlander> wait wait Tal
  533. 16:01:28:23:16<+DigitalDuck> That's exactly what I was arguing when you guys were talking about people losing their ships without doing anything wrong.
  534. 16:01:28:23:16<+Dinosawer> That's the opposite of what I just said
  535. 16:01:28:23:16<+Dinosawer> :(
  536. 16:01:28:23:16<+outlander> Just think about how to make hull loss more bearable compared to starting over
  537. 16:01:28:23:17<+Cornflakes> or... well... make hull loss less likely to occur
  538. 16:01:28:23:17<+SilverPC> Duck, they entered battle, that was the wrong decision :V
  539. 16:01:28:23:17<+Cornflakes> less critical existence failure and more disabling
  540. 16:01:28:23:17<+SilverPC> allow Salvage of hulls then? :V
  541. 16:01:28:23:17<+SilverPC> unless of course they would actually be wipe out
  542. 16:01:28:23:17<+outlander> maybe give ships player owns instead of the basic one?
  543. 16:01:28:23:17<+SilverPC> like with excessive force, or antimatter :V
  544. 16:01:28:23:17<+SilverPC> (which is excessive force)
  545. 16:01:28:23:18<+Cornflakes> silver, we have both, every time :V
  546. 16:01:28:23:18<+outlander> and allow to restore a certain number of items for free?
  547. 16:01:28:23:18<+SilverPC> then the ship deserves to explode past usability
  548. 16:01:28:23:18<+SilverPC> and we should buy insurance in that case
  549. 16:01:28:23:18<@DWMagus> OR EVEN BETTER! Make Hull loss a part of the story required to progress!
  550. 16:01:28:23:18<@DWMagus> A NOVEL idea! :D
  551. 16:01:28:23:18<+SilverPC> :V
  552. 16:01:28:23:18<+Cornflakes> lol
  553. 16:01:28:23:18<+Cornflakes> i hate games which do that :V
  554. 16:01:28:23:18<+outlander> Like
  555. 16:01:28:23:18<+outlander> yeah
  556. 16:01:28:23:18<+SilverPC> Who wants to be a Service Desk Analyst at my work? :V
  557. 16:01:28:23:19<+Cornflakes> "you have to die in this section you fought the last 20 minutes to survive and nothing happened"
  558. 16:01:28:23:19<+outlander> I'll get blown up, and decide to ride with Francis
  559. 16:01:28:23:19 * tal_in_dev_meeting headdesks
  560. 16:01:28:23:19<+SilverPC> oh wait thats onsite with customer :V
  561. 16:01:28:23:19<@DWMagus> If it's a part of the narrative, then that's the way it is.
  562. 16:01:28:23:19<+DigitalDuck> I have a red mark on my head from the headdesks and facepalms.
  563. 16:01:28:23:19<+SilverPC> :V
  564. 16:01:28:23:19<+SilverPC> well stop doing them then
  565. 16:01:28:23:19<+DigitalDuck> Literally, the upper-right portion of my face is redder than the rest of it.
  566. 16:01:28:23:20<+Dinosawer> tal_in_dev_meeting, I'm OK with the half you're proposing, I'm just pointing out that a new char gets a tad more. That's not a reason to remove the second char rule :p
  567. 16:01:28:23:20<+SilverPC> why would you do that?
  568. 16:01:28:23:20 * tal_in_dev_meeting headkeyboards
  569. 16:01:28:23:20<+Naed> are the bunch of you seriously saying: give us easy mode?
  570. 16:01:28:23:20<+outlander> Naed
  571. 16:01:28:23:20<+DigitalDuck> Let's make every character completely invincible!
  572. 16:01:28:23:20<+SilverPC> Im not
  573. 16:01:28:23:21<+Naed> because it sure as hell read exactly like that from my end
  574. 16:01:28:23:21<+SilverPC> :V
  575. 16:01:28:23:21<+Dinosawer> There's something between easy and extremely hard
  576. 16:01:28:23:21<+DigitalDuck> If the characters can't die then you don't need to reimburse them when they do!
  577. 16:01:28:23:21<+Cornflakes> we want to be able to recover under a year of work
  578. 16:01:28:23:21-!- Cha0zz is now known as Cha0zz[AWAY]
  579. 16:01:28:23:21<+outlander> Naed, currently, if you die and start another character we'll get more money than if we loose our ship but survive the mission.
  580. 16:01:28:23:21<+DigitalDuck> It shouldn't be work.
  581. 16:01:28:23:21<+Cornflakes> "work"
  582. 16:01:28:23:22<+Naed> outlander / and what did Talvieno just say about that rule?
  583. 16:01:28:23:22<+outlander> he said to throw it away
  584. 16:01:28:23:22<+Dinosawer> Well, I hipe he was joking
  585. 16:01:28:23:22<@tal_in_dev_meeting> (that I added it without thinking it through)
  586. 16:01:28:23:22<+Dinosawer> *o
  587. 16:01:28:23:22<+Naed> outlander / then why are you japping on about it?
  588. 16:01:28:23:22<+outlander> but then what are we going to have instead?
  589. 16:01:28:23:22<+Dinosawer> Because that's the exact opposite of what we're talking about.
  590. 16:01:28:23:22<+outlander> yes.
  591. 16:01:28:23:22<+Dinosawer> Which is...
  592. 16:01:28:23:22<+DigitalDuck> Yes, because you're talking about making the game easier.
  593. 16:01:28:23:22<+Cornflakes> more unrecoverable buttsex outlander
  594. 16:01:28:23:23<+outlander> hmmm?
  595. 16:01:28:23:23<+Cornflakes> [23:22] <outlander> but then what are we going to have instead?
  596. 16:01:28:23:23<@DWMagus> Have you ever thought about playing Tal at his own game?
  597. 16:01:28:23:23<+outlander> ah
  598. 16:01:28:23:23<+outlander> ok.
  599. 16:01:28:23:23<@DWMagus> Seriously, start a sock-puppet account.
  600. 16:01:28:23:23<@DWMagus> Create a second character, that's more of a mastermind type.
  601. 16:01:28:23:23<@DWMagus> And thus you can use that character as a human shield! :D
  602. 16:01:28:23:23<+Cornflakes> lol
  603. 16:01:28:23:23<+DigitalDuck> :D
  604. 16:01:28:23:23<+outlander> Magus - we have enough time for that
  605. 16:01:28:23:23<+outlander> sure
  606. 16:01:28:23:23<+Naed> shush DWMagus dont tell them to actually read the rules and use it to their advantage.
  607. 16:01:28:23:24<+DigitalDuck> Six sockpuppet accounts, all in the same squad.
  608. 16:01:28:23:24<+outlander> let's forget our RL and do exactly that.
  609. 16:01:28:23:24<+Dinosawer> I don't wanna give tal more work by making more chars ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  610. 16:01:28:23:24<+DigitalDuck> Francis can lead his own squad of mini-Francis!
  611. 16:01:28:23:24<+outlander> Naed: not funny.
  612. 16:01:28:23:24<+outlander> Duck: not funny.
  613. 16:01:28:23:24<@DWMagus> Hey, if people like TriggerHappy can play without being incredibly in-depth, it shouldn't be hard to create another account. XD
  614. 16:01:28:23:24<+DigitalDuck> Wow.
  615. 16:01:28:23:25<+DigitalDuck> Someone's offended.
  616. 16:01:28:23:25<+outlander> no
  617. 16:01:28:23:25<+Naed> outlander / what are you offended about now?
  618. 16:01:28:23:25<+outlander> I'm not offended
  619. 16:01:28:23:25<+Cornflakes> naed, so what are you referring to with "read the rules". im pretty sure you have something specific in mind, would you care to enlighten me?
  620. 16:01:28:23:25<+outlander> I'm oozing love and happiness
  621. 16:01:28:23:25<+Cornflakes> PPPFFFRRRTTT
  622. 16:01:28:23:25<+outlander> oh wait
  623. 16:01:28:23:25<+outlander> that's my nose running
  624. 16:01:28:23:26<+outlander> no, I'm not offended
  625. 16:01:28:23:26<+DigitalDuck> That's okay, Cornflakes just blew it for you.
  626. 16:01:28:23:26<+outlander> just saying that it's not funny
  627. 16:01:28:23:26<+Naed> Cornflakes / as mentioned previously. You (the players) are not taking advantage of how the rules actually are.
  628. 16:01:28:23:26<+Dinosawer> In what way?
  629. 16:01:28:23:26<+Cornflakes> ^
  630. 16:01:28:23:26<+Naed> outlander / i am asking you what isnt funny.
  631. 16:01:28:23:26<+DigitalDuck> DISSENT
  632. 16:01:28:23:26<+Cornflakes> another statement without actual content :V
  633. 16:01:28:23:26<+outlander> <Naed>shush DWMagus dont tell them to actually read the rules and use it to their advantage.
  634. 16:01:28:23:26<+Naed> outlander / how is that not funny?
  635. 16:01:28:23:26<@DWMagus> Naed is telling you to think outside the box.
  636. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> I don't find it funny
  637. 16:01:28:23:27<@DWMagus> The whole entire basis of the game is that you all are prisoners.
  638. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> I don't know
  639. 16:01:28:23:27<+DigitalDuck> Then don't laugh.
  640. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> fun is subjective
  641. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> so
  642. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> O Naed
  643. 16:01:28:23:27<@DWMagus> Kind of like how Eve does allow people to scam others within the game, to backstab, and so forth.
  644. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> enlighten us
  645. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> how to use the rules to our advantage?
  646. 16:01:28:23:27<+outlander> that we, a brainless herd of sheeple, can't see?
  647. 16:01:28:23:28<+Naed> outlander / as you yourself said: i dont play the game. So why should i?
  648. 16:01:28:23:28<+outlander> I didn't say it, actually.
  649. 16:01:28:23:28<+Cornflakes> neither did i
  650. 16:01:28:23:28<+Naed> take advantage of the rules
  651. 16:01:28:23:28<@DWMagus> When I start a new video game on the NES, I learn the rules in different ways. How far do my shots go; how close to an edge I can get to before I fall? Where is the hit box exactly.
  652. 16:01:28:23:28<+Naed> think for crying out loud!
  653. 16:01:28:23:28<+outlander> so that's a generic advice?
  654. 16:01:28:23:28<+Cornflakes> seems like it
  655. 16:01:28:23:29<+outlander> like, stay well, eat vedgies, have more sex?
  656. 16:01:28:23:29<+outlander> thank you Naed
  657. 16:01:28:23:29<+DigitalDuck> NOT FUNNY OUTLANDER
  658. 16:01:28:23:29<+outlander> I don't even know how I would have done without you
  659. 16:01:28:23:29<+Naed> outlander / no, it is not generic. Because for some reason, you seem to have disabled your "think of how the rules actually work" part of your mind.
  660. 16:01:28:23:29<+outlander> then don't laugh duck
  661. 16:01:28:23:29<+Dinosawer> I know the rules by heart, I'm fairly sure I already use them to most of their potential.
  662. 16:01:28:23:29<+outlander> I didn't
  663. 16:01:28:23:29<+Dinosawer> I'm open for suggestions, though.
  664. 16:01:28:23:29<+outlander> read my parts of the game
  665. 16:01:28:23:30<+outlander> I'm one of the least damaged folks
  666. 16:01:28:23:30<+outlander> and I've master-minded the entire assault thing
  667. 16:01:28:23:30<@DWMagus> I would laugh hysterically if the whole point of the current aspect is to have everyone die so they can PURPOSELY restart with more money. XD
  668. 16:01:28:23:30<+outlander> and the shields, and the nuke
  669. 16:01:28:23:30<+Naed> <outlander> and I've master-minded the entire assault thing <- do you honestly think you did that?
  670. 16:01:28:23:30<+Naed> the GM allowed that to happen.
  671. 16:01:28:23:31<+Naed> Use the rules to your advantage.
  672. 16:01:28:23:31<+Dinosawer> Either way, since it's apparently not possible to have a conversation about this without apparently being someone who can't handle the difficulty, I'll be playing more starcraft
  673. 16:01:28:23:31<+Cornflakes> and i allow you now to come down from your high horse naed
  674. 16:01:28:23:31<+Cornflakes> ^
  675. 16:01:28:23:31<@DWMagus> A better question is; do you really think the GM will let you die?
  676. 16:01:28:23:31<+DigitalDuck> Who's on the high horse?
  677. 16:01:28:23:31<+outlander> yes.
  678. 16:01:28:23:31<+Dinosawer[mobile]> Yes
  679. 16:01:28:23:31<+Cornflakes> ack
  680. 16:01:28:23:31<@DWMagus> And I don't mean because you purposely made stupid moves.
  681. 16:01:28:23:31<+DigitalDuck> Because apparently gravity has been flipped.
  682. 16:01:28:23:32<@tal_in_dev_meeting> DWMagus - you mean unfairly die?
  683. 16:01:28:23:32<@DWMagus> Tal's response is all I needed to know. :D
  684. 16:01:28:23:32<+DigitalDuck> If Francis can survive removing a helmet, you guys are fine.
  685. 16:01:28:23:32<@tal_in_dev_meeting> hmm? PM?
  686. 16:01:28:23:32<@DWMagus> Nope.
  687. 16:01:28:23:32<@DWMagus> No need.
  688. 16:01:28:23:32<+Cornflakes> duck, im sitting here asking naed for whatever he is thinking of and his answer is "i wont tell that YOU sheeple"
  689. 16:01:28:23:32<@DWMagus> By asking that question you perfectly summed up what I wanted to say.
  690. 16:01:28:23:32<+DigitalDuck> I didn't hear him say that.
  691. 16:01:28:23:32<@tal_in_dev_meeting> :|
  692. 16:01:28:23:33<+Naed> Cornflakes / hm? would you mind to at least quote me right?
  693. 16:01:28:23:33<@DWMagus> No sarcasm here, Tal. You're perfect right now. :)
  694. 16:01:28:23:33<@tal_in_dev_meeting> okay.
  695. 16:01:28:23:33<@tal_in_dev_meeting> :) nice to hear someone say that. lol
  696. 16:01:28:23:33<+Cornflakes> insert "essentially" where approbiate
  697. 16:01:28:23:33<+DigitalDuck> I heard him essentially say "use the rules to beat the GM".
  698. 16:01:28:23:33<+Cornflakes> and i asked him "what rules did you think of"
  699. 16:01:28:23:34<+outlander> Naed: I gave the idea and made an attack plan. My character spoke to the NPCs to ensure it's carried out. Yes, I used everything rules allowed me to make it happen. And I was still subjected to iTALian strike because 'high speed' means 'too high to handle', and I should have told 'maximum safe speed' instead. My bad, and I've lived with it, and it's ok. But the rest work out extremely well. I'm using the rules, don't you worry.
  700. 16:01:28:23:34<+DigitalDuck> Which is exactly the goal of these kinds of games.
  701. 16:01:28:23:34<+Naed> Cornflakes / ALL OF THEM!
  702. 16:01:28:23:34<+Cornflakes> useless answer is useless
  703. 16:01:28:23:34<@DWMagus> It's more accurate than your rebuttals though. ;)
  704. 16:01:28:23:34<+DigitalDuck> ^
  705. 16:01:28:23:35<+Naed> Cornflakes / if you are stubborn on your POV/mindset. Then yes. It is very much useless
  706. 16:01:28:23:35<@DWMagus> Maybe it's me. Alright, let me verify.
  707. 16:01:28:23:35<@DWMagus> Is Naed, Duck, and I in on some sort of in-joke no one else is aware of?
  708. 16:01:28:23:35<@DWMagus> Because it feels like we are.
  709. 16:01:28:23:35<+DigitalDuck> I'm not sure. Are we?
  710. 16:01:28:23:35<+Naed> i hope.
  711. 16:01:28:23:35<@DWMagus> I guess so? We seem to understand something they don't.
  712. 16:01:28:23:36<+DigitalDuck> I'm playing as an idiot and seem to be with you guys, so I wouldn't treat that as a good thing. :D
  713. 16:01:28:23:36<+Jimmy42> Idiots, idiots everywhere.
  714. 16:01:28:23:36<@DWMagus> Ooo, I wonder if I can get Tal to drop hints.
  715. 16:01:28:23:36<@DWMagus> Tal: Are the rules that the 'game' plays by the same rules that you 'run' the game by?
  716. 16:01:28:23:36<+Naed> i know a good DWMagus!
  717. 16:01:28:23:36<+Naed> awww, spoil sport!
  718. 16:01:28:23:37<+DigitalDuck> Shhhh. :D
  719. 16:01:28:23:37<@DWMagus> Tal, you can choose to answer that or not.
  720. 16:01:28:23:37<@DWMagus> :D
  721. 16:01:28:23:37<@DWMagus> Okay, so then that does mean we're in on our own in-joke. XD
  722. 16:01:28:23:37<@DWMagus> The Matrix has you! XD
  723. 16:01:28:23:37<@DWMagus> Okay, okay.
  724. 16:01:28:23:37<@DWMagus> I'll be quiet now.
  725. 16:01:28:23:38<+DigitalDuck> NOT FUNNY DWMAGUS
  726. 16:01:28:23:38<@DWMagus> :(
  727. 16:01:28:23:38<@DWMagus> Okay, maybe I was just quackers there for a moment. I'll be good.
  728. 16:01:28:23:38<+DigitalDuck> Obviously it's The Quacktris.
  729. 16:01:28:23:38<+Naed> rofl!
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