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amerikaOnFire

The Lighthouse

amerikaOnFire
Nov 4th, 2019
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  1. 10:33 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): @Adam @Ryan @donaldquixote
  2. [10:34 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): post what you posted in the other channel in here again adam..curious about that
  3. [10:34 AM] Adam: I was trying to figure out, that last scene didn’t have the lighthouse in it and I was trying to figure out if that’s because it was taken from a different angle or if it had disappeared from the island
  4. [10:38 AM] Adam: It being removed from the island fits in with the purgatory idea, possibly with the idea that in making his way to the top of the lighthouse forced judgement upon him, he was found wanting and was cast down to hell
  5. [10:39 AM] Adam: It was a very sharp transition from him falling down the stairs of the lighthouse to being out on the rocks surrounded by nothing but gulls eating his innards
  6. [10:40 AM] Adam: That’s what leads me to the idea that the lighthouse is intentionally not in that shot
  7. [10:42 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): ok, so far this is what i have. not fully fleshed out and some of it are just questions or hot take/quick interpretations
  8. [10:43 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): 1. The horn sound. Where was it coming from? The boats coming in, the house..what was it's purpose? What was it's purpose if any?
  9. 2. Thomas Wake was constantly gaslighting Winslow by saying something wasn't done when it was done and also making him feel like he was never working hard enough despite all the hard/constant work being shown by the movie. Is Thomas actually Winslows alter-ego and/or subconcious and he's driving himself mad or his guilt is driving him to madness?
  10. 3. The guy with the white hair. Was that really the guy who Winslow claimed to not kill and to let die? Did he actually kill the guy much like he killed the seagull?
  11. 4. The head of the guy in the basket was missing an eye. The seagul tormenting Winslow also had one eye. It was also mentioned that Thomas Wick's previous worker had died due to madness that he succumbed to while at The Lighthouse. And it's stated by Winslow that Thomas probably drove the guy to insanity. If Thomas is an alter-ego, what does this mean?
  12. 5. What was the meaning of the scene where Thomas was outside naked and staring at Winslow who was on the ground and a light was coming out of his face? Was that the moment the madness to see the light truly overcome Winslow and it was his breaking point?
  13. 6. The seagull death and finally succumbing to Thomas's toasts and actually drinking booze were the turning points. These two events are where Winslow gave in to his inner demons and the madness started to fully bubble up to the surface to the point of influencing what he does which included finally giving into his massive guilt over the death of that white haired man and "spilling his beans".
  14. [10:43 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): 7. Spilling the beans scene was a key part of when things went super crazy. However, I am not sure if this means anymore than that...he finally gave in to his guilt and instead of lying to himself he embraced it and it drove him nuts. I don't think this meant any more than that. He admitted that he was not Winslow and was instead Thomas Howard (first name being the same further strengthens the alt-ego thing).
  15. 8. The boat scene where Thomas chops up the boat and then immediately says Winslow did it is part of why I think Thomas is his alter-ego.
  16. 9. I think the entire story takes place in the man's head and/or some form of pergatory. It's even alluded to by Thomas Wake that he is walking in a frozen area of Canada freezing to death and this is all in his mind.
  17. [10:50 AM] Adam: One more point regarding the purgatory theory and the metaphorical spilling of beans is that although he confessed to his sin, he didn’t seem remorseful about his action. I’m trying to remember the context of when Wake asked him that question but could it have been reworded to asking if he felt remorse over his actions?
  18. [10:51 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): is it Thomas Wake? i actually didn't look it up and my ears only heard "wick"
  19. [10:51 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i've yet to look up anything for other thoughts
  20. [10:52 AM] Adam: Oh maybe it was Wick. Either way same question stands
  21. [10:52 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): so i'm still pretty blind right now in regards to crowd sourcing meaning
  22. [10:52 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): it is Wake, just imdb'd it
  23. [10:53 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i guess i should have added on "what story is the lighthouse based on" and i guess you answered that in the other channel
  24. [10:53 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): sounds like it's a mixture of that story and a lot of sailor lore including davey jones
  25. [10:54 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): and the bad luck to kill a sea bird
  26. [10:54 AM] Adam: Regarding the horn sound- I think that’s just a standard fog horn that’s a part of the lighthouse. I think the sounds of it though were haunting, and added amazingly to the sound design of the movie
  27. [10:55 AM] Adam: Yeah, it’s definitely a mix of a bunch of tales
  28. [10:56 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): yeah, i was curious when the horn was sounding and if it was coming from the lighthouse all the time. but it wasn't playing all the time. just in certain key scenes
  29. [10:57 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): but it might have just been a sound/style choice
  30. [10:57 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): or maybe the fog and the horn was representative of his foggy mental state
  31. [10:57 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): and when it was at it's worst
  32. [10:57 AM] Adam: There was at least one scene where Winslow reacts to the sound, so it’s definitely a part of the world and not just added for the viewers
  33. [10:58 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): yeah, but that could be his mental state!
  34. [10:58 AM] Adam: I think maybe he was cleaning the horn and it blasted in his face
  35. [10:59 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): could be
  36. [10:59 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): might have just been a scene haha
  37. [10:59 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): this is the type of movie you not only have to watch a ton of times and know about any stories that could influence it, but also take it apart scene by scene. and even then you might not get it all
  38. [10:59 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): or still be guessing
  39. [10:59 AM] Adam: Sure, it’s entirely possible that the timing of the horn is related to something else, but I’m not sure I could say anything to it after watching it once
  40. [11:02 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): yeah haha
  41. [11:02 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): it might have just been him cleaning a horn and being annoyed
  42. [11:02 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): it was interesting how the movie constantly showed him working his ass off
  43. [11:02 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): but thomas wake was constantly telling him he wasn't
  44. [11:02 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): and that he was a dullard and a lagger
  45. [11:03 AM] Adam: Which leads back to the idea of Wake gaslighting him, like during that boat destruction scene
  46. [11:03 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): which could mean that it was the white hair guy really getting to him or that he honestly felt nothing was ever good enough for his position/station in life
  47. [11:03 AM] Adam: That too :slight_smile:
  48. [11:03 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): like, what is actually real
  49. [11:04 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): is the white hair guy real/story real. was the story reliable? was he actually the white hair guy since later on he forced wake to be a dog and do all this nasty shit and then felt guilty
  50. [11:04 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): so many questions
  51. [11:05 AM] Adam: So one other thought I had while typing up the questions about the physical lighthouse was what if the only scene from reality was him on the island being eaten by gulls
  52. [11:06 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i didn't notice the lighthouse missing from the last scene
  53. [11:06 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): what do you mean by it not being there?
  54. [11:06 AM] Adam: The rest is in his head, maybe he was put on this island for punishment for what he did, and everything else in the movie is him trying to explain in his crazed mind how he got to this point
  55. [11:07 AM] Adam: So the final scene where it shows him being eaten by gulls you can only see him, the island, and the gulls. There were no structures present that I recalled seeing
  56. [11:08 AM] Adam: So the question to that was: Is that because of just the angle the movie was shot at, OR was it intentional that the lighthouse was not present in that shot
  57. [11:09 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): the back drop was all rocks
  58. [11:09 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): as if he had fallen
  59. [11:09 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i assumed you couldn't see the lighthouse simply because it wasn't in frame
  60. [11:10 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i figured there was some significance to that particular framing in regards to the original story
  61. [11:10 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): since it was sort of a jump cut out of nowhere to him naked and being eaten alive by seagulls
  62. [11:10 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): personally, i think it's the angle and it was intentional based on the story that inspired the scene...but not sure either haha. just a guess
  63. [11:14 AM] Adam: Haha right, that’s part of why I was focusing on that because I really can’t tell what the motivation for that was. Winslow being cast down from the lighthouse would leave me to believing he would hit the floor of the lighthouse and stop there. The sudden jump cut to him being outside seems like a very intentional decision and it’s what happens in between that jump cut and the framing of the final scene that leads to that question
  64. [11:18 AM] Adam: Also, I’m going to just say I’m glad AMC decided to not have a kerosene and honey sponsored drink on their menu
  65. [11:22 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): ROFL
  66. [11:23 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): the massive amount of drinking...curious if that really played a part
  67. [11:24 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): like, was his resistance to drinking for half the movie a sign of him trying not to be crazy or give in to drink (or his guilt) and then when he finally imbibed it all came flooding out to the point that he "spilled his beans" to himself and could no longer lie to himself about being a good man (he goes on in one scene about being a good man and hard worker)
  68. [11:42 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): oh, another detail i'd like to know more about is they focused on how does somebody eat grass when they have no teeth. cows and goats and other animals have teeth..but how does a human do it? Wake responds with "you just pull it and eat it" and Winslow for some reason doesn't accept that. then, later, when Winslow/Howard is looking into the light finally, he screams...and it looks an awful lot like he doesn't have any teeth at all
  69. [11:43 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i have no clue why that is significant, but i think there is something to all of that or it wouldn't have been mentioned and then shown. and i am pretty sure it wasn't just the special effect making his face/scream all white making his teeth details disappear...it truly looked like they were gone (i was zoning in on it at the time due to the prior conversation)
  70. [12:00 PM] Adam: Oh man I completely forgot about that conversation. Yeah surely it has some sort of significance, though I couldn’t even begin to take a stab at what that is... or why he wouldn’t his teeth would be missing or disappear at the end
  71. [12:18 PM] amerika* (MikeMo): yeah, i feel like there is another story or legend that ties in there
  72. [12:18 PM] amerika* (MikeMo): or some mental/psychological significance there
  73. [12:18 PM] amerika* (MikeMo): it's just too weird with too much focus to not be SOMETHING
  74. [9:25 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i still haven't looked up much on the movie
  75. [9:25 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i forgot to put in my question list above anything about the mermaid
  76. [9:26 AM] amerika* (MikeMo): i think partly because it seemed pretty obvious why she was included and represented
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