Amasian v. Fem

Fem v. Amasian
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Response 1

Fem opens by drawing a direct stat comparison between Wolverine and Black Panther, arguing that Wolverine's feats are generally better than Panthers or that his powers (i.e. healing) negate Panther's win cons. He similarly compares Batman and Steppenwolf, but argues more directly that Steppenwolf is vastly more durable (and counters Batman's esoterics), and that his axes oneshot. The advantages Batman has (stealth, skill) are irrelevant vs this. Lastly Fem compares Green Arrow and Guts, arguing that Guts is too durable + has too good of injury tolerance to be quickly taken out by GA's arrows. He points out that GA doesn't really stand any chance in CQC.

Amasian has a bit of a less "table-y" approach to stat posting, but still systematically compares the picks. He argues in Steppenwolf v. Batman that Bruce can hurt Steppenwolf as Bruce's marble feat is through thicker material than Steppenwolf's dura + the hits induce a chance of hitting Steppenwolf out of the arena. Steppenwolf's offense are countered by Batman's gauntlets, and he has sufficient blunt force dura to withstand Steppenwolf. Amasian also spends a bit of time breaking down why Batman's arrow timing is better than Steppenwolf's. He then breaks down the utility of Batman's various gear and stealth skill. In the BP v. Wolverine fight Amasian argues that BP can throw hits that would faze Wolverine, while he in turn can tank Wolverine's claws/hits. His main differentiation is that BP is a smarter fighter in general. Lastly Amasian covered GA v. Guts, where he basically just argued that GA would out speed Guts and snipe him.

Response 2

In his 2nd response, Fem argued:

 - Wolverine v. BP: Fem opened with the classic "BP has a lot of appearances and Amasian is only using one run" argument. In the rest of the argument he highlights how Amasian undersold Wolverine's dura/striking feats, and oversold Black Panther's. He also points out how Wolverine does dodge and how his speed feats are generally better.

 - Batman v. Steppenwolf: Fem reiterates that Batman doesn't strike hard enough to easily take down Steppenwolf. BFR and other esoterics are also unlikely as stronger hits and objects have tried/failed to do so. He then argues that Batman can't really contend with the force that Steppenwolf will deal, even if he  can withstand the piercing component. He also clarifies Steppenwolf's speed feat, and highlights some issues with Batman's.

 - GA v. Guts: Fem breaks down the mitigating factors in Gut's speed feats, while highlighting an issue with the sourcing for GA's own speed. Guts has feats of blitzing goons. Fem ends his argument basically outlining how anything short of an instant killshot on Guts is a loss for GA

Amasian retorts, arguing that:

 - Batman v. Steppenwolf: Doubles down on arguing that Steppenwolf's dura feats are oversold, and breaks down why Batman can withstand hits from Steppenwolf. Points out that Fem has kinda handwaved esoterics. He then continues his R1 thread of why Batman is a better arrow timer. Bruce will be knocing Steppenwolf around.

 - Wolverine v. BP: Amasian argues that BP's strength is consistent, and that he has piercing that Wolverien can't contend with. He also breaks down how Wolverine's dura is inferior to BP's dura. Further breaks down why Wolverine can't cut BP, and why BP is actually faster.

 - GA v. Guts: Continues to argue many of the same things as R1, just going more indepth on why GA is faster, why he can hit Guts, and why Guts can't close the distance


Judgement:

Overall a solid debate on both sides, most of the matches were pretty close. I however ended up landing as follows:

 - GA v. Guts: I think GA takes this one. While I think Amasian tried to anti-wank Guts too hard in his first response (which Fem did a good job countering), as he pointed out in his second response, even with all things equal GA does his things over a smaller distance. That coupled with a somewhat iffy movement speed feat lets my buy that GA can at least stay at range for some time. While Fem did rightly point out that Guts is very injury resistant, considering the multi-shots and aiming feats Amasian provided I am pretty confident that either he would land a kill shot fairly quickly or at least Guts will have enough arrows in semi critical organs that it'll degrade his fighting.

- Wolverine v. BP: Wolverine takes this one. This was probably the most one sided of the debates. While I think Fem made some misteps, such as handwaiving towards BP having 1000 apperances without anti-feats or counter feats being kinda weak, Amasian sunk himself by countering with largely unimpressive feats (the metal feat provided was kinda ???. It is from zero leverage, but even with that factored in it doesn't seem good at all). Amasian did do a good job arguing BP's piercing dura and I did buy that it would at least be very difficult for Wolverine to cut him, but in the end I bought Fem's speed and striking arguments moreso than what Amasian argued.

- Batman v. Steppenwolf: This goes to Batman by like the slimmest hair. Fem was definitely right throughout the debate regarding Steppenwolf's dura being better than Batman's striking, but he lost me one a few key points. Firstly Amasian did a good job of shoring up Batman's (gauntlet) piercing dura, while Steppenwolf could still one shot by cutting anywhere else it lets Batman contend with at least some hits. Secondly I think Amasian is largely correct that Batman is at least somewhat faster. The main clincher though is Fem had some odd esoteric counters. He did a good job shutting down Bruce's electric attacks, but just hand waved the sonics and stealth. Blunt force dura isn't going to really help with a sonic attack, and the feat Amasian provided makes it look like a semi-spammable attack that would make Steppenwolf open to a number of hits. Couple that with stealth, Bruce (even with Steppenwolf's dura) likely could take him out either via striking or a ring out.

Amasian wins 2-1