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  1. [15:06:42] %Lasen: enjoy the workshop everyone!
  2. [15:06:47] #Yellow Paint: pm myself or any of the other staff participating in the shop
  3. [15:06:51] #Yellow Paint: for type suggestions to start
  4. [15:06:59] #Yellow Paint: so far we have ghost
  5. [15:08:59] #Yellow Paint: psychic, fairy, water
  6. [15:09:53] #Yellow Paint: I'll start a poll at 0:10 if nothing changes
  7. [15:10:26] A poll was started by Yellow Paint.
  8. [15:12:56] MurderousMantyke was promoted to Room Whitelist by Yellow Paint.
  9. [15:13:12] MurderousMantyke: ghost monos seem rather limited so it would be nice to spice things up
  10. [15:13:24] #Yellow Paint: yeah, looks like ghost wins
  11. [15:14:34] +Splash: well to start w/ ghost
  12. [15:14:49] +Splash: staples would be spectrier aegislash and mimikyu
  13. [15:15:08] SprDragonite was promoted to Room Whitelist by Yellow Paint.
  14. [15:15:35] #Yellow Paint: is that like the main offensive core?
  15. [15:15:40] #Yellow Paint: or just the goodmons
  16. [15:15:46] +Splash: ghost is p tough to work with
  17. [15:15:49] +Splash: almost always going to be
  18. [15:15:51] +Splash: the same 6
  19. [15:15:55] @Katy ♪: ya
  20. [15:15:59] @Katy ♪: ghost has p much the same 6
  21. [15:16:14] MurderousMantyke: there's decisions to be made about which one's scarfed
  22. [15:16:14] #Yellow Paint: cool, so the variet is in sets?
  23. [15:16:20] +Splash: yea
  24. [15:16:21] MurderousMantyke: sub cm spectrier kinda nice
  25. [15:16:30] MurderousMantyke: w/ wisp and hex
  26. [15:16:37] MurderousMantyke: sets up on a lot
  27. [15:16:38] #Yellow Paint: do we wanna start with that?
  28. [15:16:43] MurderousMantyke: im down for that
  29. [15:16:49] SprDragonite: ye same
  30. [15:16:54] @Katy ♪: mhhm
  31. [15:17:17] +Splash: !code
  32. Spectrier @ Leftovers
  33. Ability: Grim Neigh
  34. EVs: 144 HP / 112 Def / 252 Spe
  35. Timid Nature
  36. IVs: 0 Atk
  37. - Substitute
  38. - Will-O-Wisp
  39. - Calm Mind
  40. - Hex
  41. [15:17:29] +Splash: this set allows the burned celesteela heavy slam to not break sub
  42. [15:17:37] MurderousMantyke: the set ik runs like 216
  43. [15:17:38] +Splash: and also flamethrower to not break as well boosted
  44. [15:17:40] MurderousMantyke: for adamant pult
  45. [15:17:40] +Coolcodename: is there any reason for using cm>nasty plot?
  46. [15:17:47] +Splash: i like max speed bro
  47. [15:17:47] MurderousMantyke: your subs get bulkier
  48. [15:17:49] +Splash: cant be riskin
  49. [15:17:59] MurderousMantyke: is the speed for the ties
  50. [15:18:02] +Splash: 216 is ight tho but more pults are jolly now that koko is relevant
  51. [15:19:22] MurderousMantyke: feel like this set does great against bulkier teams like poison
  52. [15:19:31] MurderousMantyke: so we need answers against offense
  53. [15:19:39] MurderousMantyke: scarf blaceph vs gengar?
  54. [15:19:53] MurderousMantyke: one can snowball, other has diff coverage and is more unpredictable
  55. [15:20:29] #Yellow Paint: blace seems a bit more threatening to me with its stabs, but not sure
  56. [15:20:39] SprDragonite: i'd run scarf blace and specs gengar
  57. [15:20:55] +Typhlosion4: Blace seems more threatening over all
  58. [15:21:15] SprDragonite: and its SpA
  59. [15:21:42] #Yellow Paint: yh much higher spa
  60. [15:21:49] +Typhlosion4: And someone mentioned before it can snowball
  61. [15:21:49] #Yellow Paint: scarf feels safer vs offensive squads
  62. [15:22:08] #Yellow Paint: sure, anyone got a scarf blace set?
  63. [15:22:19] SprDragonite: yes
  64. [15:22:46] #Yellow Paint: I think you should be able to !code it?
  65. [15:22:56] MurderousMantyke: we need voice for that i would guess
  66. [15:23:03] @Katy ♪: if not i can code it
  67. [15:23:10] MurderousMantyke: shadow ball, fire blast, trick, knock or psyshock
  68. [15:23:14] MurderousMantyke: fire blast ohkos koko iirc
  69. [15:23:22] MurderousMantyke: the last slot isnt very important
  70. [15:23:25] SprDragonite: ye
  71. [15:23:34] #Yellow Paint: what evs/nature?
  72. [15:23:37] #Yellow Paint: hasty?
  73. [15:23:42] #Yellow Paint: (if knock)
  74. [15:23:47] #Yellow Paint: otherwise 252 252
  75. [15:23:49] SprDragonite: timid
  76. [15:23:55] MurderousMantyke: timid always
  77. [15:23:58] #Yellow Paint: gotcha
  78. [15:24:00] MurderousMantyke: knock isnt for damage after all
  79. [15:24:10] MurderousMantyke: 252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 255-300 (90.7 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
  80. [15:24:15] MurderousMantyke: it does 88 max with flamet
  81. [15:24:36] @Katy ♪: !code
  82. Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
  83. Ability: Beast Boost
  84. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  85. Timid Nature
  86. - Shadow Ball
  87. - Fire Blast
  88. - Trick
  89. - Knock Off
  90. [15:24:40] SprDragonite: maybe it can run blast and ftghrower
  91. [15:24:41] @Katy ♪: so pretty much this i assume
  92. [15:24:44] SprDragonite: fthrower*
  93. [15:24:49] #Yellow Paint: flamethrower over knock?
  94. [15:24:53] MurderousMantyke: its an option
  95. [15:24:54] #Yellow Paint: just for the reliability?
  96. [15:24:56] MurderousMantyke: ye
  97. [15:24:57] +Typhlosion4: Trick seems nice fit fat builds
  98. [15:24:58] SprDragonite: i'd
  99. [15:25:02] +Typhlosion4: for
  100. [15:25:10] MurderousMantyke: the first three moves are p much mandatory
  101. [15:25:19] @Katy ♪: maroon welcome
  102. [15:26:12] @Katy ♪: maroon as a headsup we've decided for sub cm wisp hex spectrier and scarf blace
  103. [15:26:21] @Katy ♪: type is ghost
  104. [15:26:22] #Yellow Paint: !code
  105. Spectrier @ Leftovers
  106. Ability: Grim Neigh
  107. EVs: 144 HP / 112 Def / 252 Spe
  108. Timid Nature
  109. IVs: 0 Atk
  110. - Substitute
  111. - Will-O-Wisp
  112. - Calm Mind
  113. - Hex
  114.  
  115. Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
  116. Ability: Beast Boost
  117. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  118. Timid Nature
  119. IVs: 0 Atk
  120. - Shadow Ball
  121. - Fire Blast
  122. - Trick
  123. [15:26:25] #Yellow Paint: this is the current comp
  124. [15:26:57] #Yellow Paint: we were debating knock or flamethrower last
  125. [15:28:41] #Yellow Paint: ok, how about we stay knock for now and then move on to other mons?
  126. [15:28:52] #Yellow Paint: we can come back later
  127. [15:29:05] SprDragonite: yes its taking too long
  128. [15:29:06] MurderousMantyke: ye
  129. [15:29:15] Crystal vince was promoted to Room Whitelist by Yellow Paint.
  130. [15:29:21] #Yellow Paint: ok, who for the other slots?
  131. [15:29:24] MurderousMantyke: mimikyu's pretty mandatory ye?
  132. [15:29:26] #Yellow Paint: sure
  133. [15:29:36] SprDragonite: yes
  134. [15:29:40] #Yellow Paint: yeah mimik too good
  135. [15:29:43] MurderousMantyke: drain punch/sneak/play rough/sd lorb is the standard
  136. [15:29:44] #Yellow Paint: wanna do sd or something?
  137. [15:29:54] MurderousMantyke: i wrote a mimikyu analysis -w-
  138. [15:29:58] SprDragonite: or red card mantyke
  139. [15:30:02] MurderousMantyke: red card is super fun ye
  140. [15:30:08] MurderousMantyke: over lo
  141. [15:30:19] #Yellow Paint: sure, red card could work
  142. [15:30:21] Crystal vince: Yee mimikyu is amazing on ghost
  143. [15:30:38] MurderousMantyke: any preference regarding red card vs lorb on mimikyu?
  144. [15:31:09] @Katy ♪: i mean red card
  145. [15:31:13] @Katy ♪: forces out
  146. [15:31:18] @Katy ♪: opposing setup sweepers
  147. [15:31:30] SprDragonite: ye
  148. [15:31:32] #Yellow Paint: it seems like ghost is pretty bog standard normally, so I'd be down for spicier sets
  149. [15:31:33] Crystal vince: True it does
  150. [15:31:44] @Katy ♪: so amybe red card can be helpful in a pinch situation
  151. [15:32:12] #Yellow Paint: !code
  152. Mimikyu @ Red Card
  153. Ability: Disguise
  154. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  155. Jolly Nature
  156. - Play Rough
  157. - Drain Punch
  158. - Shadow Sneak
  159. - Swords Dance
  160. [15:32:14] #Yellow Paint: like this?
  161. [15:32:21] @Katy ♪: mhhm
  162. [15:32:41] SprDragonite: yes that's good
  163. [15:32:51] MurderousMantyke: ye i can see it doing work against like sub gmolt mono flying
  164. [15:33:36] #Yellow Paint: sure, any other staples to add?
  165. [15:33:41] #Yellow Paint: I heard aegi was mentioned earlier
  166. [15:33:45] SprDragonite: ye
  167. [15:33:59] Crystal vince: Corsola-g
  168. [15:34:00] #Yellow Paint: splash suggested sd aegi
  169. [15:34:01] SprDragonite: sd or sub toxic?
  170. [15:34:29] mushamu was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
  171. [15:34:32] mushamu: omfl..
  172. [15:34:35] mushamu: aegi isnt a must
  173. [15:34:41] Jolly Togekiss was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
  174. [15:34:51] @maroon: alright
  175. [15:34:53] SprDragonite: i have played sd aegi, not sub toxic
  176. [15:34:55] mushamu: imo if we're fitting blacephalon on the team then we should use the aegi slot for gengar
  177. [15:34:56] @maroon: i think we can start this now
  178. [15:35:06] MurderousMantyke: could you !code the current team for the new joiners -w-
  179. [15:35:14] +Jolly Togekiss: alright hows this workshop gonna get structured then
  180. [15:35:20] SprDragonite: ghost
  181. [15:35:25] #Yellow Paint: !code
  182. Spectrier @ Leftovers
  183. Ability: Grim Neigh
  184. EVs: 144 HP / 112 Def / 252 Spe
  185. Timid Nature
  186. IVs: 0 Atk
  187. - Substitute
  188. - Will-O-Wisp
  189. - Calm Mind
  190. - Hex
  191.  
  192. Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
  193. Ability: Beast Boost
  194. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  195. Timid Nature
  196. - Shadow Ball
  197. - Fire Blast
  198. - Trick
  199. - Knock Off
  200.  
  201. Mimikyu @ Red Card
  202. Ability: Disguise
  203. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  204. Jolly Nature
  205. - Play Rough
  206. - Drain Punch
  207. - Shadow Sneak
  208. - Swords Dance
  209. [15:35:27] #Yellow Paint: current team
  210. [15:35:28] SprDragonite: ^^
  211. [15:35:35] #Yellow Paint: and yeah it's pretty much just a group build with suggestions from chat
  212. [15:35:46] mushamu: are we building around anything
  213. [15:35:47] #Yellow Paint: to the viewers, feel free to pm any helpers if you have any questions and suggestions
  214. [15:35:47] mushamu: in paticular
  215. [15:35:56] @Katy ♪: spectrier
  216. [15:35:59] @Katy ♪: atm
  217. [15:35:59] mushamu: o
  218. [15:36:00] #Yellow Paint: it seems like this one it was around sub cm spect + blace
  219. [15:36:27] mushamu: i think we should use a breaking set on blace
  220. [15:36:29] mushamu: we lose to steel rn
  221. [15:36:38] +Typhlosion4: Specs?
  222. [15:36:40] mushamu: ya
  223. [15:36:41] mushamu: or cm
  224. [15:36:47] MurderousMantyke: if we going specs i'd prefer geng for that
  225. [15:36:54] SprDragonite: ^^
  226. [15:36:55] MurderousMantyke: even as a potential partner
  227. [15:37:03] @maroon: i dont entirely like cm blace
  228. [15:37:14] @maroon: i feel like even with pressure its to fragile to cn
  229. [15:37:18] @maroon: specs is def better
  230. [15:37:20] mushamu: specs is okay too
  231. [15:37:21] +Typhlosion4: Ya
  232. [15:37:26] mushamu: i was thinking we could actually run brick break gengar
  233. [15:37:37] MurderousMantyke: o.O
  234. [15:37:41] MurderousMantyke: explain
  235. [15:37:41] SprDragonite: drain punch mimi also helps against steel tho
  236. [15:37:47] mushamu: its not for steel
  237. [15:37:49] mushamu: its for fairy and dark
  238. [15:37:51] mushamu: for screens
  239. [15:38:42] mushamu: drain punch mmq isnt enuff for steel
  240. [15:38:43] SprDragonite: idt its worth
  241. [15:38:45] MurderousMantyke: against fairy you just click sludge wave, klefki rarely lasts long in the battle
  242. [15:38:54] mushamu: what about vs dark
  243. [15:38:57] mushamu: u cant make progress
  244. [15:39:01] mushamu: without removing screens
  245. [15:39:01] Crystal vince: Brick break gar sounds like cool tech
  246. [15:39:07] SprDragonite: it can learn dgleam
  247. [15:39:15] mushamu: dgleam does like 40 to everything with screens up
  248. [15:39:17] @maroon: my only problem with bb gar
  249. [15:39:25] @maroon: is that its important in both dark/fairy
  250. [15:39:32] +Jolly Togekiss: wait whats bb
  251. [15:39:35] mushamu: brick break
  252. [15:39:37] SprDragonite: brick break ig
  253. [15:39:37] +Jolly Togekiss: oh
  254. [15:39:38] @maroon: and if u click bb it def gets punished for it
  255. [15:39:41] mushamu: well
  256. [15:39:44] SprDragonite: yes
  257. [15:39:47] mushamu: against dark the screener doesn't carry dark stab
  258. [15:39:51] mushamu: so you just click it for free
  259. [15:39:52] SprDragonite: it does not have enough bulk
  260. [15:39:58] +Typhlosion4: Gar is pretty frail as well so after bb
  261. [15:40:00] +Typhlosion4: ..well
  262. [15:40:12] mushamu: even getting it off mid game is huge
  263. [15:40:16] MurderousMantyke: if we have an empty slot on the gar then bb sounds fine
  264. [15:40:17] SprDragonite: against grimm you get twaved
  265. [15:40:26] mushamu: they should be taunt
  266. [15:40:27] MurderousMantyke: grimm runs taunt
  267. [15:40:32] MurderousMantyke: taunt/screens/sbreak
  268. [15:40:39] mushamu: ya that
  269. [15:40:47] SprDragonite: ye
  270. [15:40:53] mushamu: if ur taunt then ur not twave
  271. [15:40:57] mushamu: so u can go gengar and start clicking
  272. [15:41:05] SprDragonite: oh i see
  273. [15:41:17] @maroon: depends on the dark and or fairy
  274. [15:41:21] @maroon: klefki def does do twave
  275. [15:41:28] SprDragonite: idk, almost every grimm i saw was twave
  276. [15:41:35] @maroon: and grimm isnt always running it but def does
  277. [15:41:36] mushamu: if theyre twave
  278. [15:41:39] mushamu: then you can go corsola
  279. [15:41:41] mushamu: and hazard up
  280. [15:41:45] +Jolly Togekiss: is that ghost team the one u guys are making?
  281. [15:41:47] mushamu: yes
  282. [15:41:50] @maroon: true enough
  283. [15:42:11] MurderousMantyke: i wouldnt say all klefki run t-wave
  284. [15:42:21] MurderousMantyke: 4 attacks support isnt great in general
  285. [15:42:23] Crystal vince: Corsola is mandatory for ghost i feel
  286. [15:42:28] MurderousMantyke: *support
  287. [15:42:31] MurderousMantyke: not attacks mb
  288. [15:42:36] MurderousMantyke: screens/spikes are necessary
  289. [15:42:41] mushamu: !code
  290. Gengar @ Spell Tag
  291. Ability: Cursed Body
  292. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  293. Timid Nature
  294. - Shadow Ball
  295. - Sludge Wave
  296. - Dazzling Gleam
  297. - Brick Break
  298. [15:42:43] mushamu: i had this in mind
  299. [15:42:50] +Jolly Togekiss: corsola is really awkward on ghost imo
  300. [15:43:08] +Jolly Togekiss: ive seen stuff with like, golurk and froslass that is cool
  301. [15:43:26] +Typhlosion4: Corsola was the physical rank?
  302. [15:43:29] +Typhlosion4: tank
  303. [15:43:31] @maroon: even tho galar corsola is awkward on ho ghosts
  304. [15:43:35] MurderousMantyke: ye usually
  305. [15:43:42] @maroon: i think the fact it can take on most phys attackers
  306. [15:43:44] MurderousMantyke: but it can run spdef since it alrdy has wisp + sap
  307. [15:43:50] @maroon: burtn them nd strength sap + cursed body
  308. [15:43:53] +Jolly Togekiss: yeah corsola cant really pivot out, so u end up kinda dead on momentum
  309. [15:44:04] mushamu: corsola isnt supposed to stay around for the whole game
  310. [15:44:08] mushamu: u just set rocks, burn some shit
  311. [15:44:09] @maroon: u end up getting cursed body 9/10 its brought in
  312. [15:44:15] mushamu: and by that time the opposing team is like
  313. [15:44:17] @maroon: u can pull momentum if u get it
  314. [15:44:20] mushamu: weakened enough for gengar/spectrier/dpult to clean
  315. [15:44:22] MurderousMantyke: banded/av dhelmise sounds fun but seems hard to fit
  316. [15:44:27] +Jolly Togekiss: thats true i guess
  317. [15:45:11] SprDragonite: av dhelmise can run rapid spin maybe?
  318. [15:45:14] MurderousMantyke: ye
  319. [15:45:21] MurderousMantyke: spin/anchor/polter/pwhip
  320. [15:45:31] MurderousMantyke: another mon that messes with fairy
  321. [15:45:37] +Typhlosion4: True
  322. [15:45:45] SprDragonite: feelsgood
  323. [15:46:19] +Jolly Togekiss: dhelmise is interesting but idk if the grass stab/rapid spin is worth that speed tier
  324. [15:46:29] +Jolly Togekiss: it doesnt have much beyond grass moves
  325. [15:46:32] @maroon: i dont rlly think dhelmise is ever worth it
  326. [15:46:45] MurderousMantyke: understandable
  327. [15:46:45] @maroon: unless ur goal was to cteam ground
  328. [15:46:52] MurderousMantyke: are there any heat mons worth looking into
  329. [15:46:54] mushamu: spect does that naturally
  330. [15:47:07] @maroon: ye
  331. [15:47:17] @maroon: can i get an updated code
  332. [15:47:49] MurderousMantyke: polteageist seems fun as well
  333. [15:48:07] SprDragonite: polteageist gets broken by rock
  334. [15:48:12] SprDragonite: rocks
  335. [15:48:39] MurderousMantyke: mm what if we run a taunt mon like lass to deny rocks and screens
  336. [15:48:40] +Typhlosion4: Do we have hazard removal? We gonna need that anyway
  337. [15:48:47] MurderousMantyke: ghost doesnt do hazard removal actually
  338. [15:48:51] MurderousMantyke: rly has no good options
  339. [15:48:54] +Typhlosion4: Sad
  340. [15:48:55] SprDragonite: dhelmise and drifblim are the only options
  341. [15:49:02] +Jolly Togekiss: polteageist is basically just a cloyster without a relevant type to kill
  342. [15:49:12] +Jolly Togekiss: so its not very good imo
  343. [15:49:20] SprDragonite: and without a type with hazard removal
  344. [15:49:30] SprDragonite: but with stored power
  345. [15:49:34] +Jolly Togekiss: like, cloyster beats dragon for water. polteageist doesnt really add anything
  346. [15:49:45] @maroon: ok before we continue
  347. [15:49:55] @maroon: is there a consensus on what the current team looks like
  348. [15:50:08] +Jolly Togekiss: uh has anyone been changing the code
  349. [15:50:13] MurderousMantyke: yellow paint dipped
  350. [15:50:13] MurderousMantyke: so no
  351. [15:50:27] +Jolly Togekiss: !code
  352. Spectrier @ Leftovers
  353. Ability: Grim Neigh
  354. EVs: 144 HP / 112 Def / 252 Spe
  355. Timid Nature
  356. IVs: 0 Atk
  357. - Substitute
  358. - Will-O-Wisp
  359. - Calm Mind
  360. - Hex
  361.  
  362. Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
  363. Ability: Beast Boost
  364. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  365. Timid Nature
  366. - Shadow Ball
  367. - Fire Blast
  368. - Trick
  369. - Knock Off
  370.  
  371. Mimikyu @ Red Card
  372. Ability: Disguise
  373. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  374. Jolly Nature
  375. - Play Rough
  376. - Drain Punch
  377. - Shadow Sneak
  378. - Swords Dance
  379. [15:50:32] MurderousMantyke: could someone scroll up and piece it together -w-
  380. [15:50:40] +Jolly Togekiss: I think we should debate on hazard control/pivots next
  381. [15:50:41] @maroon: ^ we adding bb gar
  382. [15:50:47] +Jolly Togekiss: since thats the hardest thing for ghost to get right
  383. [15:50:48] MurderousMantyke: is the gengar in there
  384. [15:51:00] +Jolly Togekiss: brick break gengar
  385. [15:51:00] MurderousMantyke: ye idt hazard control is worth
  386. [15:51:03] MurderousMantyke: outside of taunt lass
  387. [15:51:19] +Jolly Togekiss: someone send me the gengar set
  388. [15:51:29] +Jolly Togekiss: nvm i see it
  389. [15:51:35] MurderousMantyke: !code
  390. Gengar @ Spell Tag
  391. Ability: Cursed Body
  392. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  393. Timid Nature
  394. - Shadow Ball
  395. - Sludge Wave
  396. - Dazzling Gleam
  397. - Brick Break
  398. [15:51:44] +Jolly Togekiss: !code
  399. Spectrier @ Leftovers
  400. Ability: Grim Neigh
  401. EVs: 144 HP / 112 Def / 252 Spe
  402. Timid Nature
  403. IVs: 0 Atk
  404. - Substitute
  405. - Will-O-Wisp
  406. - Calm Mind
  407. - Hex
  408.  
  409. Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
  410. Ability: Beast Boost
  411. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  412. Timid Nature
  413. - Shadow Ball
  414. - Fire Blast
  415. - Trick
  416. - Knock Off
  417.  
  418. Mimikyu @ Red Card
  419. Ability: Disguise
  420. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  421. Jolly Nature
  422. - Play Rough
  423. - Drain Punch
  424. - Shadow Sneak
  425. - Swords Dance
  426.  
  427. Gengar @ Spell Tag
  428. Ability: Cursed Body
  429. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  430. Timid Nature
  431. - Shadow Ball
  432. - Sludge Wave
  433. - Dazzling Gleam
  434. - Brick Break
  435. [15:51:55] SprDragonite: i have seen palossand in ghost, tho idk whats its role, besides rocks
  436. [15:51:56] +Jolly Togekiss: alright cool team so far
  437. [15:51:57] AtraX Madara was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
  438. [15:52:01] @maroon: atrax madara
  439. [15:52:04] MurderousMantyke: welcome
  440. [15:52:15] SprDragonite: hello
  441. [15:52:16] +Jolly Togekiss: insane speed tiers but nobody to switch them in rn
  442. [15:52:16] #Mr(^‿^)Aldo: should actually be around now
  443. [15:52:22] #Mr(^‿^)Aldo: keep at it, doing great
  444. [15:52:32] +Jolly Togekiss: i'd say we need some pivots as the last 2
  445. [15:52:35] +Jolly Togekiss: like, badly
  446. [15:52:49] MurderousMantyke: we need a pult hol up
  447. [15:52:51] SprDragonite: dragapult
  448. [15:52:55] MurderousMantyke: u-turn pult tho? means giving up ddance
  449. [15:52:59] +Jolly Togekiss: aegislash and pult i guess?
  450. [15:53:07] @maroon: is there any reason
  451. [15:53:09] MurderousMantyke: we can debate the aegi slot
  452. [15:53:11] AtraX Madara: can i ask what is brick breack on gengar for ?
  453. [15:53:11] @Katy ♪: If there are any questions regarding the team feel free to shot us a message
  454. [15:53:15] @maroon: we went with spell tag gengar
  455. [15:53:16] AtraX Madara: break*
  456. [15:53:18] MurderousMantyke: AtraX Madara, its for screens fairy and dark
  457. [15:53:24] @maroon: imo we should be boosting the poison stab
  458. [15:53:27] MurderousMantyke: i assume spell tag is to make up for the lack of specs
  459. [15:53:27] +Jolly Togekiss: uh, because mushamu said so
  460. [15:53:31] MurderousMantyke: ^ fr
  461. [15:53:32] +Jolly Togekiss: i agree tho
  462. [15:53:42] mushamu: boosting the ghost stab makes more sense
  463. [15:53:50] SprDragonite: why does pult give up ddance for uturn?
  464. [15:53:53] mushamu: ghost stab is generally so much better than poison stab
  465. [15:53:57] MurderousMantyke: ddance u-turn shouldnt exist
  466. [15:54:01] +Typhlosion4: lol
  467. [15:54:03] +Jolly Togekiss: its better neutral coverage i guess. this team is also kinda all about spamming ghost moves
  468. [15:54:09] @maroon: but in specific for what u wanna hit with knock
  469. [15:54:16] @maroon: like dark/fairy
  470. [15:54:17] +Jolly Togekiss: tbh i think we need a physical aegislash on this team
  471. [15:54:21] @maroon: def u want strong sludge
  472. [15:54:24] +Jolly Togekiss: for close combat
  473. [15:54:29] AtraX Madara: i usually run energy ball and it seems more useful for water and ground since they aren't that easy to beat,but then u struggle against ttar so yea,fblast can cover that + steels
  474. [15:54:34] mushamu: i dont think boosting poison stab makes a difference against fairy
  475. [15:54:48] +Jolly Togekiss: ^ idk if the power actualy adds anything to the mu
  476. [15:55:01] +Jolly Togekiss: like, even +1 clef is still dying right?
  477. [15:55:21] mushamu: are we talking about the attribute team
  478. [15:55:27] +Jolly Togekiss: probably
  479. [15:55:27] AtraX Madara: i'm pretty sure u get ohko's to tapu lele and koko even tho i think lele was a roll
  480. [15:55:28] MurderousMantyke: yh swave 2hkos +1 clef
  481. [15:55:39] MurderousMantyke: shadow ball is a roll on lele, not swave
  482. [15:55:46] MurderousMantyke: its like 87% ohko with wave
  483. [15:55:51] mushamu: it shouldnt matter ya
  484. [15:55:54] mushamu: 252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  485. [15:56:19] mushamu: well you would just sball the lele
  486. [15:56:39] mushamu: but sludge shud kill regardless
  487. [15:56:40] mushamu: ya
  488. [15:56:41] MurderousMantyke: ye but we were on about poison barb
  489. [15:57:04] @maroon: alright im good w/ ghost tag then
  490. [15:57:23] +Jolly Togekiss: wdyt about physical aegislash and some sort of pivot pult?
  491. [15:57:42] +Jolly Togekiss: that seems like a good last 2. aegislash beats normal mons
  492. [15:57:48] diegoblu was promoted to Room Whitelist by maroon.
  493. [15:57:50] +Jolly Togekiss: and we want a bit more momentum
  494. [15:57:53] SprDragonite: sd aegi is ud
  495. [15:57:55] SprDragonite: gud
  496. [15:58:07] @maroon: diegoblu
  497. [15:58:07] mushamu: we should run scarf aegislash
  498. [15:58:09] mushamu: i bet it slaps
  499. [15:58:11] diegoblu: hi
  500. [15:58:11] +Jolly Togekiss: sd close combat protect aegis
  501. [15:58:32] SprDragonite: like: sd, sneak, cc, king shield/ iron head
  502. [15:58:35] +Jolly Togekiss: well, scarf aegis is cool but it doesnt play the same role i wa sthinking of
  503. [15:58:44] mushamu: whats sd for on this team
  504. [15:58:54] AtraX Madara: sd air balloon ?
  505. [15:59:14] +Jolly Togekiss: i just wanted the physical fighting moves and a way to wallbreak better with them
  506. [15:59:22] SprDragonite: i run wp
  507. [15:59:27] AtraX Madara: me2
  508. [15:59:31] @maroon: also could help with dark
  509. [15:59:34] AtraX Madara: but it can't pivot that much
  510. [15:59:36] @maroon: u lead aegi vs grimm
  511. [15:59:42] @maroon: u could get iron head off
  512. [15:59:59] @maroon: as long as ur item isnt making it obvious
  513. [16:00:02] @maroon: like air balloon
  514. [16:00:03] +Jolly Togekiss: scarf is cool but then you lose out onmindgames with kings shield, which i think are ok here
  515. [16:00:17] +Jolly Togekiss: makes aegis more annoying for dark and steel probably
  516. [16:00:23] SprDragonite: i love king shield+ wp
  517. [16:00:38] SprDragonite: you can weaken the move with shield
  518. [16:00:40] +Jolly Togekiss: im not sold on the item being weakness policy but thats not bad'
  519. [16:00:58] AtraX Madara: yea i always used wp aegi
  520. [16:01:04] SprDragonite: and resist it activating wp
  521. [16:01:38] diegoblu: aegi is tanky enough to afford wp i think. its a fine item
  522. [16:01:56] SprDragonite: in its shield yes
  523. [16:02:19] SprDragonite: not in the blade
  524. [16:02:20] @maroon: i have to agree
  525. [16:02:25] +Jolly Togekiss: but would the longevity of lefties or balooon have a chance to be better>
  526. [16:02:25] @maroon: i dont think wp aegi is that good
  527. [16:02:28] @maroon: like yes it can work
  528. [16:02:41] @maroon: but most of the time its not gonna work favorably
  529. [16:02:53] mushamu: i like balloon on ghost
  530. [16:02:56] mushamu: because u lose to spikes
  531. [16:02:58] diegoblu: i dont think lefties would be good in sdance aegi
  532. [16:03:02] diegoblu: balloon is ok
  533. [16:03:08] @maroon: hm fair enuf ig
  534. [16:03:13] @maroon: sd balloon aegi
  535. [16:03:20] @maroon: cc iron head sneak?
  536. [16:03:23] mushamu: yeah
  537. [16:03:27] SprDragonite: maybe
  538. [16:03:34] diegoblu: yeah
  539. [16:03:35] SprDragonite: ye
  540. [16:04:05] SprDragonite: since you are not pretending to take hits
  541. [16:04:32] @maroon: !code
  542. Spectrier @ Leftovers
  543. Ability: Grim Neigh
  544. EVs: 144 HP / 112 Def / 252 Spe
  545. Timid Nature
  546. IVs: 0 Atk
  547. - Substitute
  548. - Will-O-Wisp
  549. - Calm Mind
  550. - Hex
  551.  
  552. Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
  553. Ability: Beast Boost
  554. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  555. Timid Nature
  556. - Shadow Ball
  557. - Fire Blast
  558. - Trick
  559. - Knock Off
  560.  
  561. Mimikyu @ Red Card
  562. Ability: Disguise
  563. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  564. Jolly Nature
  565. - Play Rough
  566. - Drain Punch
  567. - Shadow Sneak
  568. - Swords Dance
  569.  
  570. Gengar @ Spell Tag
  571. Ability: Cursed Body
  572. EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  573. Timid Nature
  574. - Shadow Ball
  575. - Sludge Wave
  576. - Dazzling Gleam
  577. - Brick Break
  578.  
  579. Aegislash @ Air Balloon
  580. Ability: Stance Change
  581. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  582. Jolly Nature
  583. - Swords Dance
  584. - Close Combat
  585. - Iron Head
  586. - Shadow Sneak
  587. [16:05:02] MurderousMantyke: what's jolly aegi for
  588. [16:05:06] @maroon: bisharp
  589. [16:05:16] AtraX Madara: a queston
  590. [16:05:24] @maroon: ye
  591. [16:05:25] AtraX Madara: do u really mind about spectrier having 394 speed ?
  592. [16:05:33] AtraX Madara: for those speed ties
  593. [16:05:34] MurderousMantyke: i mentioned making it 216 speed
  594. [16:05:46] MurderousMantyke: for ada pult
  595. [16:05:49] @maroon: i mean 394 is more then just other spectrier
  596. [16:05:51] SprDragonite: 216+
  597. [16:05:53] @maroon: its also koko
  598. [16:05:56] AtraX Madara: yea
  599. [16:06:05] AtraX Madara: but u re still cm spectrier
  600. [16:06:07] AtraX Madara: not like specs
  601. [16:06:14] @maroon: idk i dont think making it slower is helpful
  602. [16:06:19] MurderousMantyke: max speed opposing spectr are probably scarfed
  603. [16:06:31] mushamu: making it slower would be okay if ghost had a defensive backbone
  604. [16:06:32] MurderousMantyke: and the speed drop means more bulk
  605. [16:06:33] mushamu: but thats not the case
  606. [16:06:39] AtraX Madara: i ve been using it 216 after a whole and i didn't had any problems but it's up to you
  607. [16:07:01] AtraX Madara: also crobat could potentially win a speedt and toxic u
  608. [16:07:03] @maroon: i did want to talk about one thing on the team
  609. [16:07:10] @maroon: red card mimikyu
  610. [16:07:23] @maroon: do yall think its ever worth
  611. [16:07:27] SprDragonite: yes
  612. [16:07:37] AtraX Madara: i prefer life orb but red card is a valid set and can save u in some occations
  613. [16:07:42] SprDragonite: imo its better than lorb
  614. [16:07:42] @maroon: personally i just always go for the strongest sneaks
  615. [16:07:50] SprDragonite: and its fun
  616. [16:07:59] MurderousMantyke: you have a way to prevent gmolt from setting up
  617. [16:08:04] MurderousMantyke: sub gmolt mostly
  618. [16:08:14] MurderousMantyke: phase it out once and sd at the same time
  619. [16:08:39] @maroon: hmm subgmolt
  620. [16:08:43] @maroon: is a good enough reason for me
  621. [16:09:39] @maroon: alright
  622. [16:09:45] @maroon: last member of the team
  623. [16:09:50] MurderousMantyke: something heat D:
  624. [16:10:04] SprDragonite: chandelure?
  625. [16:10:08] SprDragonite: its fire
  626. [16:10:09] MurderousMantyke: we have blaceph
  627. [16:10:10] @maroon: u have blace
  628. [16:10:17] SprDragonite: fire=heat
  629. [16:10:18] diegoblu: its p much HO so id say a lead
  630. [16:10:24] @maroon: honestly this team wouldnt be complete
  631. [16:10:25] MurderousMantyke: froslass sounds perfect
  632. [16:10:27] diegoblu: like froslass or golurk
  633. [16:10:27] @maroon: without pult
  634. [16:10:29] SprDragonite: froslass isn't heat
  635. [16:10:31] SprDragonite: its cold
  636. [16:10:34] MurderousMantyke: >.>
  637. [16:10:39] @maroon: but that isnt heat
  638. [16:10:40] @maroon: lol
  639. [16:10:47] MurderousMantyke: a bit uncommon, at least
  640. [16:10:57] SprDragonite: ye froslass is good
  641. [16:11:01] SprDragonite: for me
  642. [16:11:08] diegoblu: u can also opt for corsola eviolite rocks
  643. [16:11:10] diegoblu: as ur lead
  644. [16:11:28] @maroon: unfortunately i dont think
  645. [16:11:34] @maroon: going for heat over viability
  646. [16:11:37] @maroon: is the move here
  647. [16:11:55] @maroon: since this is a monotype workshop aimed towards newer users
  648. [16:12:09] MurderousMantyke: lass makes sense considering the team's offensive
  649. [16:12:18] MurderousMantyke: im not mentioning it just for heat
  650. [16:12:19] SprDragonite: indeed
  651. [16:13:53] +Jolly Togekiss: i mean, wouldnt pult fill the team out better
  652. [16:14:06] SprDragonite: idk
  653. [16:14:17] +Jolly Togekiss: gives water resist and a pivot. ghost is already a bad type but pult adds a lot
  654. [16:14:30] @maroon: ye
  655. [16:14:33] +Jolly Togekiss: dragon resistances are hard to come by
  656. [16:14:45] @maroon: esp ones that deal with gengar and aegi
  657. [16:14:45] +Jolly Togekiss: i mean like, tne resistsnaces dragon gives
  658. [16:14:50] +Jolly Togekiss: ye
  659. [16:15:17] SprDragonite: with a layer of spikes, 252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Koko: 255-300 (90.7 - 106.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
  660. [16:15:30] MurderousMantyke: that's without spikes
  661. [16:15:37] SprDragonite: ik
  662. [16:15:48] mushamu: pult is like the reason ghost is viable
  663. [16:16:02] diegoblu: ye the team needs it
  664. [16:16:08] mushamu: its the best mon in the tier
  665. [16:16:12] mushamu: its just on 2 shit types
  666. [16:16:48] +Jolly Togekiss: best mon in the tier is a stretch. I'd give that to darm or blace
  667. [16:17:03] +Jolly Togekiss: both are on shit types as well
  668. [16:17:07] @maroon: melm is but ok
  669. [16:17:15] mushamu: melm is like the 10th best mon in the tier
  670. [16:17:17] mushamu: its just unhealthy as shit
  671. [16:17:20] +Jolly Togekiss: ^
  672. [16:17:26] @maroon: the way it clicks dib tho
  673. [16:17:30] +Jolly Togekiss: 10th is low but yeah
  674. [16:17:31] SprDragonite: lando or steela imo
  675. [16:17:35] mushamu: i think pult > darm for sure
  676. [16:17:44] mushamu: ace is borderline broken tbh
  677. [16:17:48] +Jolly Togekiss: blacephalon is kinda insane man
  678. [16:17:55] +Jolly Togekiss: i menat
  679. [16:17:58] mushamu: oh i thought u said cinderace
  680. [16:17:59] mushamu: blace is bad
  681. [16:18:00] +Jolly Togekiss: cinderace
  682. [16:18:02] +Jolly Togekiss: yes
  683. [16:18:07] @maroon: we gonna go standard ss set
  684. [16:18:09] @maroon: on the pult
  685. [16:18:13] mushamu: yeah
  686. [16:18:13] +Jolly Togekiss: whats standard
  687. [16:18:13] mushamu: that works
  688. [16:18:22] SprDragonite: ddance sub ig
  689. [16:18:22] @maroon: !code
  690. Dragapult @ Leftovers
  691. Ability: Infiltrator
  692. EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
  693. Jolly Nature
  694. - Dragon Dance
  695. - Dragon Darts
  696. - Phantom Force
  697. - Substitute
  698. [16:18:34] @maroon: u could use dragon fang>leftys
  699. [16:18:41] +Jolly Togekiss: sure thats ok
  700. [16:18:55] MurderousMantyke: does it pick up any specific kos
  701. [16:19:17] diegoblu: i think lefties better on that set because of sub and phantom free turn
  702. [16:19:30] SprDragonite: idk if it ohkos multiscale dnite with fng
  703. [16:19:34] SprDragonite: fang*
  704. [16:19:34] +Jolly Togekiss: i generally prefer pults with like, scarf or smth, but this is probably good on ghost
  705. [16:19:35] @maroon: https://pokepast.es/ce35b046ae5ea498
  706. [16:19:43] +Jolly Togekiss: tbh i havnt really been developing ghost pult sets
  707. [16:19:46] @maroon: we can debate w3hich
  708. [16:19:47] @maroon: item
  709. [16:20:02] @maroon: i agree on dragon dd isnt the best
  710. [16:20:08] @maroon: but i think it works the most on ghost
  711. [16:20:13] AtraX Madara: idk why i ve 224+ on dpult speed
  712. [16:20:21] AtraX Madara: without +
  713. [16:21:49] @maroon: i dont think it should ever be slower than koko
  714. [16:22:09] @maroon: 196+ is lowest id ever go
  715. [16:23:29] AtraX Madara: oh u use it jolly
  716. [16:23:34] AtraX Madara: it'c bcause i use it adamant
  717. [16:27:54] @maroon: ye underspeeding weavile koko etc
  718. [16:27:57] @maroon: is always a no no
  719. [16:28:12] @maroon: i go 196+ bz it still outspeeds the rarer sand drill with jolly
  720. [16:30:12] @maroon: anyway
  721. [16:33:21] AtraX Madara was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  722. [16:33:21] Crystal vince was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  723. [16:33:21] diegoblu was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  724. [16:33:21] Jolly Togekiss was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  725. [16:33:21] MurderousMantyke was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  726. [16:33:21] mushamu was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  727. [16:33:21] SprDragonite was promoted to Room regular user by maroon.
  728. [16:33:27] mushamu: okurrr!!!
  729. [16:33:36] @maroon: :wow:
  730. [16:33:44] +Jolly Togekiss: my powers
  731. [16:33:46] +Jolly Togekiss: gone
  732. [16:33:49] @maroon: ok thanks everyone for coming to the mono workshop
  733. [16:33:51] #Mr(^‿^)Aldo: ty all for participating! crazy how it got so lenghty for a team
  734. [16:33:55] #Mr(^‿^)Aldo: crazy
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