Wolfe/Star-Crossed

[3:49 PM] Wolfe: hiya
[3:49 PM] clefairiel: Hello
[3:49 PM] Wolfe: you free for a bit?
[3:49 PM] clefairiel: Yeah
[3:50 PM] Wolfe: tryna catch up on what's been goin on backstage
[3:50 PM] clefairiel: You don't happen to be the mystery unknown member of my tribe right?
[3:50 PM] Wolfe: you in DDR?
[3:50 PM] clefairiel: Yes
[3:50 PM] Wolfe: ah
[3:50 PM] Wolfe: I'm in ITG, so no
[3:50 PM] Wolfe: there's still one missing from each it seems
[3:50 PM] clefairiel: I don't know what ITG stands for oddly enough
[3:51 PM] Wolfe: apparently
[3:51 PM] Wolfe: it's
[3:51 PM] Wolfe: IN THE GROOVE
[3:51 PM] Wolfe: :musical_note:
[3:51 PM] Wolfe: ^ that's what I was told when I asked lol
[3:51 PM] Wolfe: Have you been doing a fair bit of OOTC?
[3:52 PM] clefairiel: I have spoken with WV, Haku, Charu, Celi, ben, and you in varying amounts
[3:52 PM] clefairiel: and I am caught up on the tribe chat and the main game
[3:52 PM] Wolfe: tribe chat isn't super important imo
[3:53 PM] Wolfe: main thread isn't as important either
[3:53 PM] Wolfe: I think we'll likely have the two tribes do daily dumps of tribe chatlog
[3:53 PM] Wolfe: OOTC is great for actually gauging people 1 on 1 though
[3:54 PM] Wolfe: by ben, you mean reuben_tate?
[3:55 PM] Wolfe: what do you think of him?
[3:55 PM] Wolfe: I'll get to the rest of them, but I've never played with him so your thoughts would be appreciated
[3:55 PM] clefairiel: WV, Haku, and Celi have all struck me as tryhard, seem generally genuine and there's not anything that I have seen from them so far that has bugged me, so those are some people I would probably not be interested in voting today.
[3:57 PM] clefairiel: reuben_tate was in my last game, which was not OOTC. He mentioned in tribe chat that he has been mafia in many of his games recently, and so VT would definitely be his preference, because it is less stressful. I started a conversation with him in private to find out more about how he experienced our last game. I found out that the reason he was pushing so much on one of his mafia partners in that one on the first day, was because he forgot that partner was mafia. He noted that he feels like he doesn't have to worry as much about what he says in this game, as in the last one. In the tribe chat, he was doing some questioning of flash flash.
[3:58 PM] clefairiel: I feel like he is somewhat more relaxed and talkative in this one, but I do not know how much of it is from discord format. But if it is really true that he is excited to be a town and has not been one in a while, I feel like it will be apparent. So I am expecting to have a good lean on him eventually, and I have a somewhat good first impression.
[3:59 PM] clefairiel: With Charu I just asked him if he was in a bad mood, and he said no. He seems less jovial in this game than in others, but I do not really have a lean on him.
[3:59 PM] Wolfe: haha he's not into OOTC games
[3:59 PM] Wolfe: I'm surprised he signed up
[3:59 PM] Wolfe: thanks for the detailed response on reuben though
[3:59 PM] Wolfe: I'll keep that in mind when I talk to him
[4:00 PM] clefairiel: Tokzic did a dumbtell in which he told us that he thought there were 3 mafia for most of the day, because when he read the saboteur role PM in the first post it had 3 names of buddies, which he took to mean 3 mafia, until somebody pointed out the 4 mafia thing in private. From the way he explained it, it seems pretty genuine to me.
[4:01 PM] clefairiel: I do not think it is impossible he is a mafia, and he has otherwise basically just been posting jokes and arguing with Smartbomb about the value of OOTC, but I think it is more likely he is a town and actually had that thought process.
[4:02 PM] Wolfe: I wouldn't put any stock in that dumbtell
[4:02 PM] clefairiel: flash flash is claiming that he is really really bad as a mafia and that he would have already slipped by now, if he was a mafia. He has 174 messages in our tribe chat so far.
[4:02 PM] Wolfe: hahaha
[4:02 PM] clefairiel: He also susses me, which is kind of annoying.
[4:02 PM] Wolfe: maan
[4:03 PM] Wolfe: ok
[4:03 PM] Wolfe: so
[4:03 PM] Wolfe: Tokz has faked a dumbtell before as maf (if I recall correctly)
[4:03 PM] Wolfe: so I wouldn't trust it
[4:03 PM] clefairiel: OK, good to know
[4:03 PM] Wolfe: I'll have to go back and check
[4:03 PM] Wolfe: I think it was in the Fire Emblem game
[4:03 PM] Wolfe: lemme go do that now actually
[4:07 PM] Wolfe: h
[4:07 PM] Wolfe: oh
[4:07 PM] Wolfe: I remembered wrong actually
[4:07 PM] Wolfe: I could still see that coming from Tokz though
[4:08 PM] clefairiel: flash was being pretty tryhard in tribe chat initially (while I was asleep) and was analysing both the superfan message and the saboteur one. He ended up mentioning early on that he was unsure if the goal was to be trying to survive or trying to hang the saboteurs, basically. I thought this made him more likely to be mafia because I think that if the first thing you are seeing is the superfan message, it's not at all ambiguous that the goal is to get rid of saboteurs, and there is not really anything about survival emphasized. But he has been being pretty active, as I said. We disagree on a lot of things (he susses me, DaBackpack, Celi). So I am now more confused than anything.
[4:11 PM] clefairiel: I had a slight good feeling on DaBackpack, just from you telling me he really does not like being a wolf, and he seemed pretty jovial in the main thread. Though I think, that is a better thing to think about after d0
[4:11 PM] clefairiel: I do not even think I am good at getting leans on him, to be honest, but that is the feeling I had
[4:11 PM] Wolfe: yeha he was maf in the FE game but didn't fake a dumbtell. I'm not sure where I got that from. I could see him doing it, but this memory is bugging me
[4:12 PM] Wolfe: DBP is a super solid town
[4:12 PM] Wolfe: if he's town
[4:12 PM] Wolfe: he'll prove it
[4:12 PM] Wolfe: sort of
[4:12 PM] Wolfe: that's the general meta
[4:12 PM] clefairiel: I am hoping that will be the case with ben
[4:12 PM] Wolfe: ok
[4:13 PM] Wolfe: D0 doesn't really matter with DBP's alignment though
[4:13 PM] Wolfe: like
[4:13 PM] Wolfe: he's gone hard as both in D0
[4:13 PM] Wolfe: sunfan says he generally falls off afterwards if he's a wolf
[4:14 PM] Wolfe: jovial
[4:15 PM] Wolfe: jovial is an interesting word to describe DBP
[4:15 PM] Wolfe: lemme see, one sec
[4:15 PM] clefairiel: Shitposty?
[4:15 PM] Wolfe: ohh hahaha
[4:15 PM] Wolfe: that's NAI
[4:15 PM] Wolfe: have you talked to j-rodd?
[4:15 PM] clefairiel: Who have you talked to so far?
[4:16 PM] clefairiel: No, he is on your tribe and I don't know his discord ID
[4:16 PM] clefairiel: as far as I know
[4:16 PM] Wolfe: j-rodd, haku, and yourself.
[4:16 PM] Wolfe: haku said you were being cautious with him
[4:17 PM] clefairiel: I was talking to Celi at the same time as him and didn't tell him, and when I followed up he didn't respond to me xD
[4:17 PM] Wolfe: ah
[4:17 PM] Wolfe: yeah he didn't think it was a bad thing
[4:17 PM] Wolfe: but
[4:17 PM] Wolfe: that was his read lol
[4:18 PM] Wolfe: he said celery was probably one of the most active players so far
[4:19 PM] Wolfe: https://discord.gg/DYJVBaS
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FFRTWG
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Joined
[4:19 PM] Wolfe: that's the main FFRTWG server
[4:19 PM] Wolfe: every FFR player is listed on there
[4:20 PM] Wolfe: makes it easy to reach out to people on discord
[4:20 PM] Wolfe: I think haku has a good shot of being
[4:20 PM] Wolfe: town
[4:20 PM] Wolfe: j-rodd seems towny as well
[4:21 PM] Wolfe: I hydra'd with him recently and he's been interacting with me the same way as we did in the hydra
[4:21 PM] clefairiel: He is being very bold in the main game
[4:21 PM] Wolfe: haha
[4:21 PM] Wolfe: you talking about
[4:21 PM] Wolfe: his green reads?
[4:21 PM] clefairiel: Trying to be the vigi
[4:22 PM] Wolfe: who
[4:22 PM] clefairiel: He told people not to submit for the reward challenge so that he could get the reward
[4:22 PM] clefairiel: but he might have been joking
[4:23 PM] Wolfe: you talking about Hakulyte
[4:23 PM] Wolfe: or j-rodd?
[4:23 PM] clefairiel: J-rodd
[4:23 PM] Wolfe: oh
[4:23 PM] clefairiel: I heard about the thing with J-rodd not remembering where he read there were 4 mafias, which I think is slightly sus, but his general demeanor seemed like he was trying to figure things out
[4:23 PM] Wolfe: either one of them would say that as a joke
[4:24 PM] Wolfe: Idk, I just liked that he was throwing out greens and then privately said they were very thin townreads except for his read on Haku
[4:24 PM] clefairiel: I am disappointed knights may not respond to me in the main thread until I am asleep, because I felt like he may be downplaying his ability to get good leans, so that he can act in the interest of the mafia
[4:24 PM] Wolfe: he threw out greens when we hydrad and then privately did the same
[4:25 PM] clefairiel: but I will see what he says
[4:25 PM] Wolfe: knight is supposed to be a really good player
[4:25 PM] Wolfe: like
[4:25 PM] clefairiel: Knights is another subject of disagreement of me and flash flash, flash flash likes him
[4:25 PM] Wolfe: very good
[4:25 PM] clefairiel: Good to know
[4:25 PM] clefairiel: He just said that he felt awkward about not knowing people basically
[4:25 PM] clefairiel: but I wondered if it was an excuse
[4:25 PM] Wolfe: he's said that in his first game here too
[4:25 PM] Wolfe: and he was town
[4:25 PM] Wolfe: I think it's true regardless of alignment
[4:26 PM] clefairiel: I find DaBackpack's posts just now funny
[4:27 PM] clefairiel: That is an interesting perspective about Haku too
[4:27 PM] clefairiel: even if I disagree
[4:28 PM] Wolfe: you disagree?
[4:28 PM] Wolfe: there wasn't really much more than white noise to the post he quoted
[4:29 PM] Wolfe: did you go into detail with celery?
[4:30 PM] clefairiel: If the implication is that Haku is mafia or not being genuine with it then I disagree
[4:30 PM] Wolfe: no no
[4:30 PM] clefairiel: Although, I had a weird gut feeling about the post when it was first posted actually
[4:30 PM] Wolfe: the implication is that there was no point to the post beyond white noise, because Haku didn't actually say anything
[4:30 PM] clefairiel: But something about the formatting now seems pretty genuine
[4:31 PM] Wolfe: the rest of it was just making a joke
[4:31 PM] clefairiel: With Celi, she wrote a fairly long private message to ask for my discord name to talk more about the other tribe
[4:32 PM] clefairiel: Er, I think I have seen people use male pronouns actually
[4:32 PM] clefairiel: The name ending in a makes me want to say 'she'
[4:33 PM] clefairiel: Celi discussed strategy for how they're going about communications
[4:34 PM] clefairiel: Didn't know or claimed not to know flash flash's discord name when I accidentally said it instead of his FFR account name
[4:35 PM] clefairiel: Celi mainly touched base on their leans on a couple of people, we talked about flash flash because of me kind of
[4:35 PM] Wolfe: Celirra is a guy, so it helps to call him celery
[4:35 PM] Wolfe: because then there's no A
[4:35 PM] clefairiel: I feel kind of weird being more detailed because half of what we talked about was them saying they wanted to limit who they were talking to
[4:35 PM] Wolfe: what's flash flash's discord name?
[4:35 PM] clefairiel: lmao
[4:36 PM] clefairiel: Nocturne
[4:36 PM] Wolfe: ohhhhhhhhhhh
[4:36 PM] Wolfe: that's who that is
[4:36 PM] Wolfe: ok
[4:36 PM] clefairiel: I had to ask too
[4:36 PM] Wolfe: lol Hakulyte said he was talking to everyone
[4:36 PM] Wolfe: as in, Haku said Celery was talking to everyoone
[4:37 PM] clefairiel: Huh
[4:37 PM] Wolfe: but if he said he wanted to limit who he talks to
[4:37 PM] Wolfe: then that's fine
[4:37 PM] Wolfe: I've gotten a good amount from this conversation
[4:37 PM] Wolfe: sorry for not being able to reciprocate as much, beyond my read on j-rodd and haku
[4:37 PM] clefairiel: Well, he said wanting to limit it, but also mentioned wanting to get ideas out to people to avoid the NK
[4:37 PM] Wolfe: have you played a wolf game yet?
[4:37 PM] Wolfe: on here
[4:38 PM] clefairiel: I feel like in the last game we played together, you were able to take my ideas and help me make them better
[4:38 PM] clefairiel: So I know you have a reputation for being a good mafia, but I still want to talk to you
[4:38 PM] clefairiel: lmao
[4:38 PM] Wolfe: lmao I appreciate that
[4:38 PM] Wolfe: you were more cautious last game
[4:38 PM] clefairiel: No, I have not been a mafia
[4:39 PM] clefairiel: I was very nervous about the possibility actually
[4:39 PM] Wolfe: heh
[4:39 PM] Wolfe: I believe you
[4:39 PM] Wolfe: actually
[4:39 PM] Wolfe: somehow
[4:39 PM] Wolfe: maybe
[4:39 PM] Wolfe: don't take my word on that
[4:39 PM] Wolfe: you haven't pocketed me!
[4:40 PM] Wolfe: anyways
[4:40 PM] clefairiel: I feel kind of insecure about what people are thinking of me right now, for some reason. Maybe because there are a lot of people in this game I do not know, and this game seems like it could be easier for the wolves to win
[4:40 PM] Wolfe: you were more cautioous last game, so I'm glad it's easier to get into it this time
[4:40 PM] Wolfe: I wouldn't feel insecure lol
[4:40 PM] clefairiel: I hope that not getting killed by town, is something I can bring, and hopefully better leans than I have had at times
[4:41 PM] Wolfe: if I have a reputation for being a "good mafia", you have a reputation for projecting town
[4:41 PM] Wolfe: so
[4:41 PM] Wolfe: don't trip
[4:41 PM] Wolfe: like
[4:41 PM] Wolfe: I didn't know what to expect at the start of this convo
[4:41 PM] Wolfe: especially since Hakulyte said you were being cautious
[4:41 PM] Wolfe: but I feel better about your slot after seeing your thoughts
[4:42 PM] Wolfe: I will say
[4:42 PM] clefairiel: I guess it makes me nervous that if I don't fit into the box of whatever people think I have already done as a town, people may sus me and I will be annoyed
[4:42 PM] Wolfe: that you do want to be a little guarded as to who you talk to
[4:42 PM] clefairiel: but I have been nightkilled in my last two games so maybe I should stop worrying
[4:42 PM] Wolfe: but the nature of the game makes it so that wolves will always have access to privileged information
[4:42 PM] Wolfe: yeah
[4:42 PM] Wolfe: I'd worry more about being nightkilled if you're town
[4:43 PM] Wolfe: then again
[4:43 PM] Wolfe: the one thing this game is weird in
[4:43 PM] Wolfe: is the voting system
[4:43 PM] Wolfe: like
[4:43 PM] Wolfe: normally I'd say "this person won't get lynched, this person won't get lynched, I won't get lynched, this person is a difficult lynch but it's worth it if I think they're scum, etc.."
[4:44 PM] Wolfe: this time
[4:44 PM] Wolfe: it really could be anyone
[4:44 PM] clefairiel: If you do figure out the thing with Tokzic and dumbtells, let me know please
[4:44 PM] Wolfe: so I'm tryna counteract that a little bit
[4:44 PM] Wolfe: yeah I'll bring it up whenever I talk to sunfan
[4:44 PM] Wolfe: he's more familiar with tokzic than I am
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: and I might have gotten it from a LTWG game, which sunfan mods
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: I'll keep you posted
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: lmk if something comes up that weirds you out about someone
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: oh
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: and
[4:45 PM] clefairiel: Why do you think people who would not be hanged normally, could be?
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: sunfan
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: myself
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: vendetta
[4:45 PM] Wolfe: Charu
[4:46 PM] clefairiel: Well, 3 of 4 of those are complete question marks, and you are nice to bounce ideas off of but I do need more to go on
[4:46 PM] Wolfe: oh
[4:46 PM] Wolfe: sorry just reread your question
[4:46 PM] clefairiel: I do not actually know if Vendetta has posted
[4:46 PM] Wolfe: those are the players I do not think would be hanged D0 normally
[4:46 PM] Wolfe: I think they could be here because voting is entirely anonymous
[4:47 PM] Wolfe: hence why I said "I'm trying to counteract that" by making it so that everyone shares their votes, and so that even wolves won't much of an incentive to lie in reporting their votes
[4:48 PM] clefairiel: Oh, you think it would happen to them if they are town and wolves are working together
[4:48 PM] Wolfe: not just if wolves are working together
[4:48 PM] Wolfe: but
[4:48 PM] Wolfe: say
[4:48 PM] Wolfe: nobody reports their votes in thread
[4:48 PM] Wolfe: and voting is anonymous
[4:48 PM] Wolfe: the players that people would normally avoid antagonizing in D0
[4:49 PM] Wolfe: become fair game
[4:49 PM] Wolfe: as in
[4:49 PM] Wolfe: people, even if they suspect sunfan, will hesitate to bring forward a case against him out of fear that he will completely dismiss it and then have them lynched themselves
[4:49 PM] Wolfe: players that project an "I'm not getting lynched" attitude generally don't get lynched unless at least one other such player is pushing their wagon
[4:49 PM] Wolfe: BUT
[4:50 PM] Wolfe: if everyone reports their votes
[4:50 PM] Wolfe: then the same mentality still kicks in
[4:51 PM] clefairiel: Funnily enough I replaced into the last game here during the first night and immediately came out with a case on both sun fan and inDheart (and was wrong about both, but voted two actual mafia at least)
[4:51 PM] clefairiel: so I do not think I would be afraid to do that if I believed it
[4:51 PM] clefairiel: At least not for the reason that I may get hanged
[4:51 PM] Wolfe: yeah but then again
[4:51 PM] clefairiel: I may wait just because certain people may get nightkilled
[4:52 PM] Wolfe: you're a solid town player
[4:52 PM] clefairiel: I still feel like a new kid
[4:52 PM] Wolfe: hah
[4:52 PM] Wolfe: here maybe
[4:52 PM] Wolfe: but you kicked ass and took names in ToS, didn't you?
[4:52 PM] clefairiel: Especially with lots of people on my tribe talking about games from a long time ago
[4:53 PM] Wolfe: oh yeah they're always referencing games that happened like more than 2 years ago
[4:53 PM] Wolfe: I feel like the new kid when they do that too
[4:54 PM] clefairiel: I think the person I would be most interested to talk to more is knights actually
[4:54 PM] clefairiel: sun fan would probably be interesting but I figure he is busy
[4:55 PM] clefairiel: Anyway I am going to wind down now I think
[4:56 PM] clefairiel: Happy catching up
[4:56 PM] Wolfe: yeah
[4:56 PM] Wolfe: thanks again
[4:56 PM] Wolfe: I should probably talk to celery
[4:56 PM] clefairiel: I do not mind if you are really open with Haku in particular about anything I said because I trust him and I am lazy
[4:56 PM] Wolfe: keep me posted on weirdness that happens!
[4:57 PM] clefairiel: I don't really care in general actually
[4:57 PM] Wolfe: and ok, thanks. I generally don't repeat much, just specific info to gauge reactions until I trust someone, then its fair game
[4:57 PM] Wolfe: you can also share what you see fit about what I wrote to anyone
[4:57 PM] Wolfe: until next time~
January 19, 2018
[4:54 PM] Wolfe: hey
[4:54 PM] Wolfe: who do you think I should shoot?
[5:23 PM] clefairiel: Hi I am still trying to catch up on the game
[5:24 PM] clefairiel: Coming down from being drunk
[5:24 PM] Wolfe: are you free to voice call at all?
[5:24 PM] Wolfe: I know you weren't very comfortable with it last time
[5:24 PM] Wolfe: but it helps to get a grasp on people
[5:25 PM] clefairiel: I probably could in like 24 hours but I am at my boyfriend's parents' house for now and everyone is asleep
[5:25 PM] Wolfe: oh no worries
[5:25 PM] Wolfe: so
[5:25 PM] Wolfe: I won the vigi challenge
[5:25 PM] Wolfe: so I'm vigilante and can shoot anyone day or night until night ends
[5:26 PM] Wolfe: celirra won hidden immunity challenge and got the ITG tribe immunity
[5:26 PM] Wolfe: the whole tribe
[5:26 PM] Wolfe: so now we can only lynch from DDR
[5:26 PM] Wolfe: what are your thoughts on soundwave/FFA?
[5:27 PM] clefairiel: Not much change from this morning
[5:28 PM] clefairiel: I have a mixed lean kind of on ffa
[5:28 PM] clefairiel: I want somebody to tell me if he actually sucks as a mafia
[5:29 PM] clefairiel: The other guy is boring, kind of
[5:33 PM] clefairiel: He seems the most likely to get hanged
[5:33 PM] clefairiel: Which worries me that the wolves do not care about him
[5:33 PM] Wolfe: he is likely to get lynched, yeah
[5:34 PM] clefairiel: But I also do not care
[5:34 PM] Wolfe: haha that's how I feel
[5:40 PM] Wolfe: brb
[5:41 PM] clefairiel: It sounds like Sound lied about something Haku said?
[5:42 PM] clefairiel: I did not hear it from Haku but you may have
[5:47 PM] clefairiel: Have you ever asked to voice chat in an ooc game as mafia
[5:49 PM] Wolfe: back
[5:49 PM] Wolfe: did you delete anything just now?
[5:49 PM] clefairiel: No
[5:49 PM] Wolfe: huh..
[5:49 PM] clefairiel: I am between like 3 tabs
[5:50 PM] clefairiel: So I may have typed something and not sent it
[5:50 PM] clefairiel: But I didn't delete anything
[5:50 PM] Wolfe: I saw a thing that said something avout voice chats
[5:50 PM] Wolfe: and then it disappeared
[5:50 PM] clefairiel: "Have you ever asked to voice chat in an ooc game as mafia"
[5:50 PM] clefairiel: I asked
[5:50 PM] clefairiel: It shows up normally on my screen
[5:51 PM] Wolfe: oh it's gone on mine
[5:51 PM] Wolfe: weird
[5:51 PM] clefairiel: Unless you are psychic and can read my pm with Celirra I do not know what you mean
[5:51 PM] clefairiel: But it is because of him that I thought to ask you
[5:51 PM] Wolfe: well
[5:51 PM] Wolfe: to be honest, I've never been mafia in OOTC
[5:51 PM] Wolfe: but I SUCK at live twg
[5:52 PM] Wolfe: so I avoid it
[5:52 PM] Wolfe: of course
[5:52 PM] Wolfe: if I were a wolf
[5:52 PM] Wolfe: I might say that exact same thing to get yoy to trust me
[5:52 PM] Wolfe: but it's true either way
[5:53 PM] Wolfe: I've been mafia in live twg
[5:53 PM] Wolfe: and was very silent
[5:53 PM] Wolfe: the whole time
[5:53 PM] Wolfe: because I didn't know what to say
[5:54 PM] Wolfe: doesn't really prove anything, but that should answer your question
[5:55 PM] clefairiel: Ok
[5:55 PM] clefairiel: When was the last time you played an ooc game on FFR before the orb game?
[5:56 PM] Wolfe: TWG CLV
[5:56 PM] Wolfe: BOATS
[5:57 PM] clefairiel: Um so would you be allowed to shoot before the day is over
[5:58 PM] Wolfe: yes, I've said that
[5:58 PM] clefairiel: Sorry I am scatterbrained
[5:58 PM] Wolfe: all good lol why do yoy ask tho
[5:58 PM] Wolfe: abd sorry I'm distracted
[6:00 PM] Wolfe: like
[6:01 PM] Wolfe: like
[6:01 PM] Wolfe: do you think I should shoot in the day?
[6:01 PM] clefairiel: Probably not, because it is not as restricted as the lynch
[6:01 PM] clefairiel: I would think
[6:03 PM] clefairiel: I was trying to understand if it was today or the next day
[6:04 PM] Wolfe: there's niggt talk
[6:04 PM] Wolfe: yeah
[6:04 PM] Wolfe: so
[6:04 PM] Wolfe: so there's no advantage to day shots
[6:06 PM] clefairiel: What do you think of Charu
[6:08 PM] Wolfe: sorry service is cutting out really bad
[6:09 PM] Wolfe: messages keep dropping
[6:09 PM] clefairiel: What do you think of Charu
[6:09 PM] Wolfe: bouta be home
[6:09 PM] Wolfe: ttyl
[6:09 PM] clefairiel: Ok
[6:39 PM] Wolfe: you gone?
January 20, 2018
[1:43 PM] clefairiel: tribe chat
[20:47] wv: are all conversations one on one now or is this just a slow d2
[20:48] star_crossed: I am talking to Haku right now
[20:48] star_crossed: How about you?
[20:50] wv: i woke up feeling like garbage and haven't done much of anything
[20:50] wv: but i thought there would be more to read here on itt
[20:57] Charu: It's still niht
[20:57] Charu: night*
[...]

and then in a group chat
Hakulyte added wv to the group.Today at 21:39
[21:41] wv: I forgot it's night
[21:41] Hakulyte: yeah, but night chat: on
[21:41] Hakulyte: vigi shot can still happen tho
[21:41] wv: Yeah
[1:43 PM] clefairiel: Basically  it is a dumbtell about it being daytime
[1:45 PM] clefairiel: There are 3 main dumbtells in my mind
[1:45 PM] clefairiel: Tokzic thinking 3 wolves, Vendetta thinking 3 wolves, and that one just now
[1:46 PM] clefairiel: I want to say Tokzic's is least believable actually
[1:46 PM] clefairiel: but I am confused where the momentum against Tokzic came from really
[2:46 PM] Wolfe: so yes, there is the general consensus that he did fake that dumbtell
[2:46 PM] Wolfe: to clarify
[2:46 PM] Wolfe: not in this game
[2:46 PM] Wolfe: I mean
[2:46 PM] Wolfe: the one I talked about
[2:46 PM] Wolfe: where he's done it before
[2:47 PM] Wolfe: I checked with sunfan and he remembered it too
[2:47 PM] Wolfe: and then knightsofneeee said he remembered tokzic faking something like that too
[2:47 PM] Wolfe: I still need to catch up though 'cause I just got on
[4:24 PM] clefairiel: Ok thank you
[5:53 PM] Wolfe: hey
[5:53 PM] clefairiel: Hello
[5:55 PM] clefairiel: I am going back through Soundwave's messages in DDR chat at the moment
[5:55 PM] Wolfe: oh
[5:55 PM] Wolfe: I'm talking to him atm as well
[5:55 PM] Wolfe: hey
[5:55 PM] Wolfe: can I trust you to be straightforward with me
[5:56 PM] Wolfe: apparently some people aren't being fully direct with me about their thoughts because I have a gun and they don't want to antagonize me
[5:56 PM] clefairiel: Oh, you are messaging him privately?
[5:56 PM] Wolfe: I can promise I won't be shooting you, specifically, so I'd like you to reciprocate that in straightforwardness, even if you think it might antagonize me
[5:57 PM] Wolfe: yes I am
[5:57 PM] clefairiel: I am not actually directly talking to him
[5:57 PM] clefairiel: Sure, I will be straightforward
[5:57 PM] Wolfe: thanks
[5:57 PM] Wolfe: ok
[5:57 PM] Wolfe: so
[5:57 PM] Wolfe: how did your side come to trust tokzic so much?
[5:59 PM] clefairiel: This kind of got rehashed in the group chat that you left, but I think Knights feels the most strongly about Tokzic being a town, and he was the one speaking to the fact that people find Tokzic "very villagery"
[5:59 PM] clefairiel: in the main thread
[5:59 PM] Wolfe: that's exactly what I wanted to follow up on
[5:59 PM] Wolfe: because
[6:00 PM] Wolfe: a few of us, myself included, wanted his lynch yesterday
[6:00 PM] Wolfe: I asked Knight what DDR thought of him
[6:00 PM] clefairiel: [21:55] wv: also naaa started taking control over how votes would be done
[21:55] wv: asking how things should be done but he was mostly in control asking questions etc
[21:55] wv: who would vote for what
[21:55] Hakulyte: do you think it was because he was afraid votes would be scattered or because he really wanted ffa ?
[21:55] wv: how many people would vote for who
[21:56] wv: he said he was afraid votes would be scattered the switch to ffa at the very end leads me to believe there couldve been ulterior motives
[21:57] wv: maybe he's just the in control kind of person. someone with more experience playing with him would be able to answer that
[21:58] wv: since he continued that by saying in the thread that there was a consensus about tokzic
[21:58] wv: consensus over here is he is really villagery -neeee
[21:58] clefairiel: It sounds like Tokzic may have talked privately to knights actually
[21:59] wv: i dont remember that every being consensus or even really talked about
[21:59] wv: ever*
[21:59] clefairiel: [03:33] theknightsofneeee: what about tokzic or charu? (yes i know ffa wants charu)
[03:33] wv: Not to star or you
[03:33] wv: No to tokzic or charu
[03:33] Charu: No to Tokzic
[03:33] Soundwave: I don't think a lynch lands on either tokzic or charu

And knights and I had given townleans on tokzic
[21:59] clefairiel: "very villagery" is kind of exaggerated
[21:59] clefairiel: but it was the other tribe that was wanting to hang him more
[22:00] wv: yeah thats probably what led to that post but the wording of the post makes it seem like we talked about him more than just a quick lynch of no lynch
[22:01] wv: or*
[6:00 PM] Wolfe: and he said that everyone thinks he's town
[6:01 PM] clefairiel: Actually that log looks kind of bad now
[6:01 PM] clefairiel: because it is a log within a log
[6:01 PM] Wolfe: [7:44 PM] theknightsofneeee: who would you like to lynch out of FFA/ben/sound?
[7:44 PM] Wolfe: tokz is an option for us
[7:45 PM] Wolfe: ITG is still discussing those 4
[7:45 PM] theknightsofneeee: tokz is off the table for us
[7:45 PM] Wolfe: the ones I posted in thread
[7:45 PM] theknightsofneeee: everyone in my tribe thinks he's villa
[7:45 PM] theknightsofneeee: cept
[7:45 PM] theknightsofneeee: 1  i think?
[7:45 PM] theknightsofneeee: ben?
[6:01 PM] clefairiel: Knights kind of systematically went through asking who everybody would want to hang, while I was not awake
[6:02 PM] clefairiel: and Charu, Soundwave, WV all said no, and I believe FFA also liked Tokzic
[6:02 PM] clefairiel: said no to hanging Tokzic, that is
[6:02 PM] Wolfe: ohh
[6:03 PM] clefairiel: I will abandon the soundwave search for the moment to pull it up
[6:09 PM] clefairiel: https://pastebin.com/wLM7wN64
Pastebin
end of day 0 - ddr - Pastebin.com

[6:09 PM] clefairiel: If you search for 'tokzic' you can see the context
[6:09 PM] Wolfe: thanks!
[6:18 PM] Wolfe: that
[6:18 PM] Wolfe: is really interesting
[6:18 PM] Wolfe: what do you think of ben?
[6:21 PM] Wolfe: hey
[6:21 PM] Wolfe: what's with the time skip at line 46
[6:23 PM] clefairiel: At line 40 SOundwave is quoting a conversation with Haku
[6:25 PM] Wolfe: oh
[6:26 PM] Wolfe: and then
[6:26 PM] Wolfe: the time difference between 40 and 50
[6:26 PM] Wolfe: is just naturally low post volume?
[6:28 PM] Wolfe: also
[6:28 PM] Wolfe: what do you think of ben?
[6:29 PM] clefairiel: Oh sorry
[6:30 PM] clefairiel: Let me double check that I did not miss part of the log, and then I will answer about ben
[6:31 PM] clefairiel: Nah just no one said anything for that long
[6:33 PM] Wolfe: cool
[6:33 PM] clefairiel: Sorry, holding 3 convos
[6:35 PM] clefairiel: I'm a bit disappointed in ben, as you know I had been optimistic about being able to get a strong lean on him
[6:36 PM] clefairiel: but his main suspicions seem to be about thinking one mechanical conversation at the start was a waste of time and thus somebody involved in it was probably mafia
[6:36 PM] clefairiel: and he doesn't find Charu's behavior with being annoyed about people sharing information genuine
[6:38 PM] clefairiel: Which I do not get a whole lot to work with from, really. He townleans me and Haku, which I agree with at least
[6:41 PM] clefairiel: I feel like I am trying to psychoanalyze him and it is kind of strange
[6:41 PM] clefairiel: https://pastebin.com/r8gLYzy3
Pastebin
ben/star - Pastebin.com

[6:42 PM] Wolfe: thanks
[6:43 PM] Wolfe: hey
[6:43 PM] clefairiel: Most likely town Freezin is here
[6:43 PM] clefairiel: Which is nice because I am bad at reading him
[6:43 PM] clefairiel: Lol
[6:44 PM] Wolfe: ah
[6:44 PM] Wolfe: just saw that
[6:44 PM] Wolfe: what do you think
[6:45 PM] Wolfe: of me calling for a vote on my shot in thread
[6:45 PM] Wolfe: it gives us another lynch, essentially
[6:45 PM] Wolfe: because nighttalk
[6:45 PM] Wolfe: only downside is if town is split and wolves vote together, we could avoid hitting wolf
[6:49 PM] clefairiel: You could always just not obey if you have a bad feeling about it
[6:54 PM] Wolfe: that would never work
[6:54 PM] clefairiel: Why not
[6:54 PM] Wolfe: because if I call for a vote and then disobey the vote and shoot a green
[6:54 PM] Wolfe: then I'm always the lynch tomorrow
[6:55 PM] Wolfe: and that is just bad
[6:55 PM] Wolfe: [FONT="Garamond"][SIZE="5"][B]ATTENTION[/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT="Garamond"][SIZE="3"]As you all know, I have a gun. It occurs to me that the combination of being gunned and the fact that we have night talk enabled gives us another lynch if I call for a vote.

Following standard TWG voting procedure, please leave your vote here in [twgv] tags. Person who gets the most votes gets shot. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[6:55 PM] Wolfe: what do you think?
[6:56 PM] clefairiel: Either way seems fine to me
[6:56 PM] Wolfe: HEY I'm putting my shot up to a regular vote. Go vote in main thread!!!!!!!
[6:58 PM] clefairiel: [02:41] clefairiel: Does it bother you that you may get shot by the 1-shot vigilante shot?
[02:45] benguin: I wasn't aware that there was a decent probability of that occuring.
[02:51] clefairiel: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?p=4606013#post4606013
[02:52] benguin: Yeah, I hopped into the thread and just saw that (I had forgotten he said that).
[02:52] benguin: I wonder if that was due to what he thought were good picks or if he actually took everyone else's picks into account?
[02:53] benguin: Because from what I can see in the thread, no one mentioned me in their two picks (unless I missed something).
[02:54] benguin: Although, I'm guessing there are likely a good handful of people that have told him their picks but didn't announce those picks in the thread.
[6:59 PM] clefairiel: Not really sure what to make of it but thought I would share
[7:02 PM] clefairiel: Was there anyone in particular you felt like was sucking up to you or something?
[7:02 PM] clefairiel: Er, not being straightforward?
[7:02 PM] Wolfe: hakulyte told me that people didn't wanna tell me that they were susing me
[7:02 PM] Wolfe: I didn't ask him who to not spook him
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: if I'm alive, I'll ask tomorrow when I no longer have the shot
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: listen
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: I'm going to copy our log
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: and give it to DBP
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: and copy my log with him
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: and give it to you
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: along with that
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: you'll get logs of every other person I've talked to
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: I think I'm the likeliest wolf target for tonight
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: especially if the shot lands on wolf
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: but even if it doesn't
[7:03 PM] Wolfe: SO
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: just fyi
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: I trust you explicitly
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: implictly?
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: idk
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: whatever
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: I trust DBP
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: I trust Haku
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: everyone else is varying degrees of null
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: I'ma get started on copying stuff now
[7:04 PM] clefairiel: All righty
[7:04 PM] Wolfe: I said as much to DBP, but if I'm wrong and you're a wolf
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: feel free to laugh at me now and in postgame
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: w/e
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: I really really don't think I'm wrong
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: oh
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: and
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: I told DBP this
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: but
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: if ben ever flips wolf
[7:05 PM] Wolfe: lynch thesunfan
[7:05 PM] clefairiel: jrodd mentioned sun fan kind of sussing ben, I think
[7:06 PM] clefairiel: but sun fan has not voted him actually
[7:06 PM] Wolfe: lol
[7:06 PM] Wolfe: not the reason
[7:06 PM] Wolfe: [6:40 PM] Wolfe: if I die tonight, and ben flips wolf at any point in the game, lynch greg
[6:40 PM] Wolfe: @DaBackpack
[6:40 PM] Wolfe: so you can reference it later if needed
[6:40 PM] DaBackpack: sure, but am I allowed to ask why?
[6:41 PM] Wolfe: if we're talking about redirection
[6:41 PM] Wolfe: every time I brought up ben and why I didn't like it
[6:41 PM] DaBackpack: OH that's right
[6:41 PM] DaBackpack: ok yeah
[6:41 PM] Wolfe: greg would diffuse it by acknowledging my feelings and then talking about a different person
[6:41 PM] Wolfe: it kind of irked me, but I can only blame myself for not being confident enough on the read to really push for his lynch
[6:41 PM] Wolfe: but if he does flip
[6:41 PM] Wolfe: lynch greg
[6:42 PM] DaBackpack: I'll remember that if it comes up and i'm alive
[6:42 PM] DaBackpack: I was going to ask you about polling the thread about the shot, which you mentioned earlier
[7:07 PM] Wolfe: and listen
[7:07 PM] Wolfe: THAT STAYS between us until the time that either ben or sunfan flip wolf
[7:07 PM] Wolfe: otherwise, if I'm right, they may work harder to prevent a lynch on one another
[7:07 PM] clefairiel: Sure
[7:07 PM] Wolfe: thanks
[7:07 PM] Wolfe: kk copying now