<stdin>

 18:56 < l1t> DocHolliday: Don't even use diaspora. Just let the whole social networking phase wither away and die by not using it.
 19:12 < l1t> NullPoint: Oops I went to bed last night before you wanted to duel
 19:18 < ijontichy> l1t: why care about social networking at all?
 19:19 < ijontichy> let it prosper, it's not like it affects us in IRC-land
 19:19 < l1t> Well I think it is great for people in countries without a voice who do not have any other outlet to share their views and voice their opinions on guburment n stuff
 19:20 < l1t> And I have an opinion on everything it seems lol anoyingly enough
 19:22 < SeanieB> just because you're antisocial doesn't mean everyone else is :p
 19:22 < SeanieB> I dont get why people get so uptight about social networking
 19:22 < SeanieB> how dare someone try to be sociable
 19:23 < l1t> I'm social I have to make small chat with end users constantly on a daily basis
 19:24 < ijontichy> "have to"
 19:24 < ijontichy> does not mean "want to"
 19:24 < l1t> hell the head of HR at my company does not own a facebook I found that kinda ironic
 19:24 < l1t> Well I don't have to I guess.
 19:24 < ijontichy> HR isn't PR
 19:24 < l1t> I can ignore them while I fix their shit
 19:24 < l1t> But i'm not an asshole
 19:25 < l1t> PR?
 19:26 < l1t> SeanieB: Also it's an invasion of privacy I don't need to go over this. Facebook willingly gives all private info to government entities regardless if they have a reason for request or not. They have openly admitted it. That alone is enough to get people "uptight" as you put it.
 19:27 < Hypnotoad> which/what info?
 19:27 < Hypnotoad> is this US only?
 19:28 < ijontichy> l1t: um, the people using facebook are basically giving out the answers to common security questions as it pertains to them
 19:28 < ijontichy> they give zero fucks
 19:29 < ijontichy> PR = public relations
 19:29 < SeanieB> public relations
 19:29 < ijontichy> they're the ones who would care about facebook, twitter, and whatever new one is inevitably out there
 19:29 < SeanieB> wait
 19:29 < SeanieB> people actually answer security questions
 19:29 < SeanieB> I treat those like passwords
 19:29 < SeanieB> lol
 19:29 < l1t> If they gave zero fucks their info would be set to public
 19:29 < ijontichy> it usually is
 19:30 < l1t> nah
 19:30 < l1t> not at all
 19:30 < ijontichy> speaking as someone who never visits the site :V
 19:30 < SeanieB> so the only reason you have is tinfoil
 19:30 < l1t> I lurk it
 19:30 < SeanieB> any website will do that
 19:30 < ijontichy> not my website
 19:30 < ijontichy> because I'm not a money-grubbing fool
 19:30 < ijontichy> and I also don't ask for it but nyeeeeeeeh
 19:30 < SeanieB> unless you wanna register your domain in asdmenistan and run behind prq
 19:31 < ijontichy> asdmenistan
 19:31 < ijontichy> yes
 19:31 < ijontichy> that will be a country now
 19:31 < Hypnotoad> l1t, which information?
 19:31 < SeanieB> ijontichy: if something goes on illegally on that site and the cops come knocking I will have to hand the drive over to them and they will find the info
 19:31 < SeanieB> it's logged
 19:31 < l1t> Hypnotoad: Everything. From your profile to every single private msg you sent
 19:31 < Hypnotoad> source?
 19:31 < SeanieB> every link in the chain will work with the government, l1t
 19:31 < ijontichy> SeanieB: you can withhold it if they don't subpoena, though, right?
 19:32 < SeanieB> they'd have one if they came knocking
 19:32 < SeanieB> they have once
 19:32 < ijontichy> and anyway, they'd be using a very broad definition of illegal if they think my site qualifies
 19:32 < SeanieB> it was either "you let us image this, or we rip it out of the wall"
 19:32 < SeanieB> I opted to let them image it :p
 19:32 < Hypnotoad> "
 19:32 < Hypnotoad>     a valid subpoena issued in connection with an official criminal investigation is required to compel the disclosure of basic subscriber records (defined in 18 U.S.C. Section 2703(c)(2)), which may include: name, length of service, credit card information, email address(es) and a recent login IP address, if available.
 19:32 < Hypnotoad>     a court order issued under 18 U.S.C. Section 2703(d) is required to compel the disclosure of certain records or other information pertaining to the account, not including contents of communications, which may include message headers and IP addresses, in addition to the basic subscriber records identified above.
 19:32 < Hypnotoad>     a search warrant issued under the procedures described in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure or equivalent State warrant procedures upon a showing of probable cause is required to compel the disclosure of the stored contents of any account, which may include messages, photos, videos, wall posts, and location information.
 19:32 < Hypnotoad> "
 19:33 < SeanieB> yeah, like
 19:33 < SeanieB> this is nothing new
 19:33 < Hypnotoad> chances are
 19:33 < Hypnotoad> if the government is able to get a warrant against you, you have waayy bigger problems
 19:33 < ijontichy> and if they're going for my site, they aren't gonna find much
 19:33 < SeanieB> so yeah
 19:33 < SeanieB> it's just tinfoil
 19:33 < ijontichy> OH SHIT, PYTHON CODE FOR A WIKI
 19:33 < ijontichy> OOOOOOOHHHHH
 19:33 < ijontichy> SO SCARY
 19:33 < l1t> hidden encrypted partitions
 19:33 < SeanieB> wat
 19:33 < ijontichy> l1t: more tinfoil
 19:34 < SeanieB> wtf are you talking about
 19:34 < SeanieB> you do know
 19:34 < SeanieB> that they will just beat the password out of you before they hack it
 19:34 < l1t> Idk somehow the conversation changed to the police asking for you hardrive
 19:34 < SeanieB> yeah um
 19:34 < SeanieB> those are easily detected
 19:34 < ijontichy> SeanieB: what if you legitimately forgot the password
 19:35 < SeanieB> you would be fucked
 19:35 < l1t> Jail
 19:35 < SeanieB> they'd get you for obstruction of justice
 19:35 < ijontichy> their perverted view of justice, anyway
 19:35 < SeanieB> until they cracked that shit you would be in the clank
 19:35 < ijontichy> and then they find
 19:35 < ijontichy> pronz
 19:35 < SeanieB> I had to detect them for a cyber security challenge, the beginning of truecrypt's volumes is detectable
 19:36 < l1t> I thought everyone knew not to use truecrypt
 19:36 < l1t> lol
 19:37 < ijontichy> well considering I know of no alternatives
 19:37 < SeanieB> I use truecrypt, but I have data to hide from thieves, not the government
 19:37 < SeanieB> I store business documents on a flash drive in truecrypt but its no secret that's what's on the drive
 19:37 < ijontichy> and anyway, if I had stuff to hide from the government, why would I keep them within the borders
 19:37 < l1t> Hypnotoad: Look it up. It's public knowledge your private messages are retained as well. And if it's stored then they are able to hand it over upon request.
 19:38 < Hypnotoad> only after a warrant
 19:38 < l1t> no
 19:38 < SeanieB> this is every fucking website lol
 19:38 < Hypnotoad>    a search warrant issued under the procedures described in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure or equivalent State warrant procedures upon a showing of probable cause is required to compel the disclosure of the stored contents of any account, which may include messages, photos, videos, wall posts, and location information.
 19:38 < SeanieB> if you're afraid this shit l1t sign off the internet
 19:38 < l1t> Microsoft, facebook, myspace have all came out and said they do not want requests.
 19:39 < Hypnotoad> huh
 19:39 < l1t> They give private information no matter what the reason to the united states govrnment.
 19:39 < ijontichy> because they have any other choice.
 19:39 < l1t> Sure
 19:39 < Hypnotoad> they give information if there is a search warrant
 19:39 < l1t> Companies tell them to fuck off all the time
 19:39 < l1t> Then they come back with more money, and a reason lol
 19:39 < ijontichy> yeah
 19:39 < SeanieB> wat
 19:39 < ijontichy> you just defeated your own argument
 19:40 < ijontichy> you derp
 19:40 < SeanieB> the government doesnt pay you for info
 19:40 < SeanieB> they will squeeze it out of you
 19:40 < l1t> If they can get a reason..
 19:40 < SeanieB> if you tell them to fuck off, they get a subpoena
 19:40 < SeanieB> then they get a search warrant
 19:40 < ijontichy> it's the government
 19:40 < ijontichy> they can use the law like a gun
 19:40 < l1t> < SeanieB> this is every fucking website lol
 19:40 < l1t> this is incorrect
 19:40 < SeanieB> if you're international they'll get you embargoed
 19:40 < l1t> Their are many services that care about your privacy
 19:40 < SeanieB> if you're in a UN country they'll get YOUR gov't after you
 19:40 < l1t> and don't keep logs
 19:41 < l1t> there*
 19:41 < SeanieB> their servers may not
 19:41 < SeanieB> but a lot of said services get black boxed
 19:41 < SeanieB> at the ISP levels
 19:41 < l1t> Well that's another story
 19:41 < l1t> We all know ISPs basically see all. That's why we sue encryption
 19:41 < l1t> use*
 19:42 < l1t> Well one reason
 19:42 < SeanieB> and even then, those services say they do
 19:42 < SeanieB> it's 90% of the time impossible to actually prove it
 19:42 < l1t> Sure you have to trust them
 19:42 < ijontichy> here's the thing
 19:42 < ijontichy> and an example
 19:43 < SeanieB> l1t: you also have to assume one more thing
 19:43 < ijontichy> I /say/ I have no idea what your passwords are
 19:43 < SeanieB> that the government gives a single shit
 19:43 < ijontichy> but there's nothing stopping me from just changing it
 19:43 < SeanieB> in a lot of cases, they don
 19:43 < SeanieB> 't
 19:43 < ijontichy> or adding a bit of code that prints it out in plaintext
 19:43 < ijontichy> you would never know in the second case
 19:43 < SeanieB> I have no government qualifications but I get info out of people without lying all the time
 19:43 < SeanieB> and companies
 19:43 < ijontichy> social engineering isn't necessarily lying :P
 19:44 < SeanieB> you may, but nobody else cares about your information
 19:44 < SeanieB> if you have to hide it, keep it away from a computer
 19:44 < ijontichy> SeanieB: if you're saying that to me, then I know that
 19:44 < ijontichy> which is why I'm not worried about goverrmernt
 19:44 < SeanieB> computers never lie, and they don't hide you
 19:44 < ijontichy> OH SHIT A QDB
 19:44 < ijontichy> HOLY FUCK, SOME PK3S
 19:45 < SeanieB> you can MITM SSL connections, microsoft VPNs use DES
 19:45 < ijontichy> DES?
 19:45 < ijontichy> in 2012?
 19:45 < ijontichy> seriously?
 19:45 < SeanieB> you can crack the encryption keys for microsoft VPNs for $20
 19:45 < SeanieB> yep
 19:45 < l1t> Wanting to be private does not mean you are hiding something illegal
 19:45 < ijontichy> http://i.imgur.com/AVpjV.gif
 19:45 < l1t> It's simply none of their fucking business
 19:45 < SeanieB> every MS VPN is triple-DES
 19:45 < ijontichy> come on people
 19:45 < SeanieB> I'm saying that privacy on computers is a farce
 19:46 < ijontichy> at least use AES
 19:46 < ijontichy> and privacy on computers /is/ possible - it lies in things like one-time pads
 19:46 < SeanieB> MS's PPTP protocol has been the same since 95
 19:46 < SeanieB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-CHAP
 19:46 <%Tolo> link title: MS-CHAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (at en.wikipedia.org)
 19:46  * ijontichy read MS-CRAP
 19:47 < SeanieB> privacy does not always equal security
 19:47 < ijontichy> security allows privacy