Metamodernism and the Importance of Mother

FuZzCasT
Hi Monfd
ash__
wb Monfd
d0m3r has changed mode: +v Monfd
Monfd
Oh, hey guys :)
Monfd
That was nice of ya
FuZzCasT
sup :)
Monfd
I just had a super intense dream
ash__
oh yeah?
FuZzCasT
I see, what happened?
ash__
remember it?
Monfd
I ended up waking at this breakthough part of the narrative and it all started immediately rushing out of my memory
Monfd
I only remember the final scene with some hazy context, which is ironic given the narrative
grns3 has changed mode: +o ash__
Monfd
I jotted my memories down as quickly as I could
Monfd
the conflicts these two have are in some larger context, for example corporate change over, death and rise of a nation...
Monfd
he older person and their adult child, I'm not sure on the gender but I think the baby was a girl have some kind of repeated conflict, we see a flashback from the child's perspective to their youth, maybe 12 of some conflict
Monfd
the daughter understandst he truth of some realities that are persistent in our narrative...
Monfd
Cyndi Lauper plays Time after Time. fade into scene with a much younger, nice skin, colorful hair, as our mothe character leans in and kisses at a slow rate int he most delicte possile fashion the throat of the newborn. It's impossible not to see how much this mother loves her child. I wake up and the memories fade
Monfd
I think my brain is processing some anticipatory loss when my mother dies
Monfd
But it was also this amazingly deep reflection on the entire human experience
Monfd
Cyndi Lauper plays Time after Time. fade into scene with a much younger, nice skin, colorful hair, as our mothe character leans in and kisses at a slow rate int he most delicte possile fashion the throat of the newborn. It's impossible not to see how much this mother loves her child. I wake up and the memories fade
Monfd
Oops
Monfd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdQY7BusJNU

Monfd
How each of us enter this world from our mother
Monfd
No matter the relationship we have with our mother, if it's harmonious or she left us as a baby, this is true
grns3
your sub-concious mind might have become very active during last stage of REM-sleep
Monfd
Every human we've ever read of in human history
Monfd
It was. I existed in a different reality. There was no question when I woke that those perceptions were the real truth
Monfd
And that I am walking around, day to day, in a haze where I think the reality in which I live will exist forever
ash__
ty grns3
ash__ has changed mode: -m
Monfd
But one day my mother shall die and that will be over forever
grns3
welcome :)
Monfd
I also was reflecting on psychologically valuable large families/social groups are, as we used to live in in our youth as a species
Monfd
Before capitalism and small families
ash__
cool
Monfd
In larger families, all these memories are shared with my siblings and uncles and aunts and when one of us dies, we all remember those stories
Monfd
And we can reflect on the special and sad moments that are now just memory
Monfd
We pass on these memories to our children and we don't experience the double death of fewer or no people to share our now sacred moments with
Monfd
Man, this dream made me sad
Monfd
This ocean of sadness and truth that is generally unavailable to me
Monfd
All these people who have lost or never had their mother and the sadness many of them must have experienced that I've never known
Monfd
Thanks for listening :)
Monfd
If you think about it, it's incredibly challenging being an aware being existing in this universe
Monfd
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. [laughs] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like [coughs] tears in rain. Time to die."
ash__
ok
ash__
Sorry I didn't read all that yet
ash__
working on getting my bnc to work
ash__
also had to pack a fresh bowl
krosis has left IRC (hub.efnet.us ircd.choopa.net)
contrail has left IRC (hub.efnet.us ircd.choopa.net)
ash__
^boom
ash__
it's not just me
Monfd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoAzpa1x7jU

Monfd
Did you guys hear about Jesse Waters reading messages from his mom
Monfd
Very strange business
ash__
Don't know who that is
ash__
oh right wing toolbox
ash__
got it
Monfd
Yep
Monfd
“Jesse, the Mueller investigation is now a 3 pronged attack—you read Axios—and you are coming across as utterly unethical and valueless? Why do that?
Monfd
"You don't have the expertise nor the knowledge to question the special counsel's investigation until you know what they know," Dr. Watters adds. “Hush Jesse.”
Monfd
“You end up presenting as lacking a moral compass honey. We all know you are a Trumpet—You don’t need to scream it."
Monfd
ash__: Are you familiar with Seth Abramson?
ash__
not by name
ash__
let me google
ash__
nope
ash__
not familiar
Monfd
He's a prominent analyst in the Trump era; he wrote Proof of Collusion which, in my view, is the single best resource for understanding Trump's collusion and crimes
ash__
heh
ash__
I understand trump's crimes just fine
ash__
by reading and having a working brain
ash__
but good to have a resource
ash__
for those who aren't political junkies
Monfd
He's a major proponent of metamodernism that I think might be the most useful explanatory framework for a guy reading messages from his mom on TV that are full of shame
ash__
at this point I ignore fox news
ash__
not worth my time
Monfd
He knows a lot more than I do, you might be surprised at some of the little details
Monfd
Have you ever heard of metamodernism?
ash__
to disect what lies they are telling this week
ash__
nope
Monfd
I learned about it from him
Monfd
I still don't fully understand it
ash__
sounds like academia speak
ash__
aka bullshit
Monfd
It's something like postpostmodernism
ash__
lol
ash__
that's funny
Monfd
It seems a very powerful explanatory framework
Monfd
It can explain how Jesse reading disparaging messages from his mom on TV can actually cause people to value him more
Monfd
Which you might think the opposite would occur
Monfd
https://medium.com/@Seth_Abramson/metamodernism-in-five-terrible-diagrams-5b430d681f7c
Monfd
I'm still working on understanding what metamodernism is exaclty
ash__
ok
Monfd
Are you familiar with postmodernism?
Monfd
It's a term used a lot, but I don't think as many people really know what it means
ash__
I've heard the term
ash__
don't have a deep understanding of it
Monfd
I don't think most people do
Monfd
It's basically the recognition that all the grand narratives of religions and large political movements aren't really true. They're just stories that some humans created and reinforced and they don't work for everybody
ash__
yes I agree with that 100%
ash__
religion is man made
ash__
that's painfully obvious
Monfd
The reason there ware 'sinners' or 'heretics' or 'dissidents' isn't because the System is correct and they're innately wrong, but is because the stories aren't essentially true
Monfd
Agreed
Monfd
I think most smart people are postmodernists, whether they know it or not
Monfd
Many people on the right, e.g. Jordan Peterson, think postmodernism is this incredible bogeyman
Monfd
But to not be a postmodernist means, generally, that you're a moron
ash__
Peterson is a charlatan
ash__
Sam Harris made mince meat out of him on Sam's podcast
Monfd
I think he's complex and acts out of conflicting forces, one of which is charlatan
04:29 ash__
He's not dumb
Monfd
I don't fully agree @ mince meat, but I agree somewhat
ash__
but he needs to get over his obsession with "cultural marxism"
Monfd
What he taught me from that podcast was the pragmatic theory of truth, which does have a philosophical tradition
ash__
You can get that from Bret Wienstein
ash__
and evolutionary biology
Monfd
Yes, his cultural marxism focus seems like a blindspot, to me
ash__
Bret used the example of people believing porcupines can shoot their quills
ash__
it's not true
ash__
but believing it could be advantagous
ash__
because you avoid them
Monfd
Yes, I think Bret Weinstein satisfactory integrated Jordan's pragmatic/metaphorical truth with Sam's scientific/epistemic truth
ash__
Enjoying the IDW
Monfd
I think Jordan was able to raise some questions Sam didn't satisfactory answer, but I don't see any remaining questions in this space raised by Jordan after Bret's responses
Monfd
Going back to metamodernism, one psychological effect of postmodernism is that you might be more dissatisfied in life and it's harder to build large coalitions
Monfd
For the first effect, this is congruent with Buddha's recognition that 'life is suffering'
Monfd
For the second effect, I'd say that is largely an advantage, but sometimes a critical problem
Monfd
Here's something that I think the West is dealing with:
Monfd
Smart people will relatively naturally be postmodernists, again whether they've heard that term before or not
Monfd
They are not naive dummies who believe the factions to which they might exist have any superhuman importance, though they may be psychologically meaningful in the lives of their participants
Monfd
But, not all humans in our societies are like this. There are the dummies and the naive and the religious and the authoritarian that are still able to exist in the modernist or even Victoria frame: The story of the faction is Really True
krosis has joined (krosis@pns.pirates-forum.org)
contrail has joined (contrail@we.are.pirates-united.org)
ircd.choopa.net has changed mode: +vov krosis contrail contrail
Monfd
And this allows them to organize and stay on message in a way the smarter postmodernists are not
Monfd
I think we've seen this phenomenon manifest in the Trump era
Monfd
Right people on the internet have shown great efficacy in brigading and maintaining their groups free from relative ideological impurities or dissent
Monfd
They have won some battles that it's bad for them to have won
Monfd
We can't allow this to continue
ash__
I will be phonebanking for whoever opposes Susan Collins
ash__
in 2020
ash__
after that Kavanaugh vote
ash__
fuck her
Monfd
Seth thinks that metamodernism is an ideological way for smart, Leftist people that criticize their leaders to battle and win against this pathological impulses in our society
ash__
Well once the boomers die, things will really start to change
Monfd
Possibly
Monfd
There's some evidence to support that claim
Monfd
Identity politics would be what Seth would call pop-postmodernism
Monfd
In pop-postmodernism, he argues that we don't know how to integrate the conflicting, local backstories of different aspects of our societies and people in those societies
Monfd
This leads to intense factionalism, which, again, is dominant in our political era
Monfd
Factionalism is probably at its highest in a very, very long time -- maybe since the Civil War era
Monfd
The different factions all understand their their side has some truth -- as postmodernism would say -- but it seems so incompatible with any possible truth claims of other factions