What happens when JT is involved

[10:42 PM] Ctelin Ajira: I just had a silly idea to make WE's summoner a hybrid of the one-big-attack version and the pet version.  Though this would require loads of testing, and may require the pet to be represented by a status effect to avoid dicking with the party setup.
[10:43 PM] Ctelin Ajira: I say it's a hybrid because its native offensive spells would still function on the summon's stats in lieu of the summoner's.
[11:53 PM] BlackMageJT: hmm.... maybe status effects that unlock spells/etc would be yur best bet
May 28, 2017
[9:22 AM] Ctelin Ajira: As far as simplicity, I whole-heartedly agree.
[9:29 AM] Ctelin Ajira: Though I still kind of want to give it something to offset the slow speed that otherwise allows physical attackers and other mages to outclass it in damage.
[11:33 PM] BlackMageJT: There are a couple ways around that that I can think of.
[11:35 PM] Ctelin Ajira: Care to share?
[11:37 PM] BlackMageJT: Well, for one, you probably ought to decide whether you want to model your summoners as basic Evokers (Summons show up, do a thing, then leave), "normal" summoners (Summon a pet that lingers around), or Synthesist (Adapts the summon to self)
[11:38 PM] BlackMageJT: And/or whether or not you want to include any weird timing mechanics a la bard (probably the best bet to emulate "normal summoner")
[11:39 PM] Ctelin Ajira: "Timing mechanics"?
[11:40 PM] BlackMageJT: You know, how you gave Isla and Sara lots of 1/2 AT 0CT abils for chaining
[11:40 PM] Ctelin Ajira: Ah, those.
[11:44 PM] BlackMageJT: If you're going Evoker route, make the abilities be big, like, game-changing big (not just in terms of damage, since a single massive nuke is hard to balance for lack of speed - you either get "too slow" or "oh you killed everything in one shot forever")
[11:44 PM] BlackMageJT: But... status effects.
[11:44 PM] BlackMageJT: Stuff like Add Protect/Shell/Bravery/Faith/Haste/Fortune, all allies.
[11:45 PM] BlackMageJT: Persistent Reflect would be another good one.
[11:45 PM] BlackMageJT: If you wanted damage, you could do something like a status effect that hits with Tier II/Tier III force every turn for X turns
[11:47 PM] Ctelin Ajira: So if Evoker, make the Summoner a lot better at what they already do a lot of, and if damage is applied, make an INT-based DoT.
[11:49 PM] BlackMageJT: yeah. Like, for Eldritch Apoc, I was planning on making the Summoner class basically the end-all-be-all caster. Whatever they casted was going to impact the field damatically.
[11:49 PM] BlackMageJT: The cost? Well, they could get one, maybe 2 spells off before they needed MP
[11:49 PM] BlackMageJT: And if you were gonna use it for nukes, you were better off melee attacking with it until your dispellers had a chance to work their mayhem.
[11:51 PM] Ctelin Ajira: What about the pet variant?  Other than possible AT modifiers.
[11:52 PM] BlackMageJT: Your best bet for pet variant would either be a) AT modifiers or b) (MAYBE) changing the summoner's class mid-battle, simulating the summoner dropping off while the eidolon fights
[11:52 PM] BlackMageJT: For AT modifiers, what you'd do is cast your "summon", which would be a status that gave your summoner a range of abilities.
[11:52 PM] BlackMageJT: All the abilities would only cost 1/2 or maybe 1/3 of AT, and they would be abilities the "pet" uses.
[11:53 PM] BlackMageJT: (obv status effect goes away when the summoner uses one of "their" abils, like a spell or another summon or item)
[11:53 PM] BlackMageJT: (or maybe not goes away)
[11:53 PM] BlackMageJT: (But you don't get the huge AT saving)
[11:56 PM] Ctelin Ajira: Then I'm guessing my current idea of a semi-autonomous summon is harder to balance.
[11:56 PM] BlackMageJT: What were you going for again?
[11:59 PM] Ctelin Ajira: With that, I had the pet version in mind, and intended to make the critter do things whenever the summoner did things, depending on who got affected. (since Summoner currently has no native field-targeting spells)
[12:03 AM] Ctelin Ajira: The pet would have its own HP, represented by a counter, and summoning the pet would enable three abilities to alter its behavior.
[12:03 AM] Ctelin Ajira: Attack Order: increase damage dealt to hostiles
Heal Order: increase healing done to friendlies
Defend Order: make the pet take direct damage in your stead
[12:06 AM] Ctelin Ajira: You still there?  Or did you think I was adding more?
[12:06 AM] BlackMageJT: You were still typing.
[12:06 AM] BlackMageJT: anyway
[12:06 AM] BlackMageJT: So, the main things with the semiautonomous idea aren't balace
[12:06 AM] BlackMageJT: it's
[12:06 AM] BlackMageJT: a) hard to do given your engine
[12:07 AM] BlackMageJT: b) Taken straight out of combat chocobos from FFXIV xP
[12:07 AM] Ctelin Ajira: Funny.  I more had the Arcanist class in mind for inspiration.  I didn't even consider the Battle Chocobo.
[12:08 AM] BlackMageJT: Chocobos had attack/tank/heal paths, and arcanist pets don't really heal from what I recall? (but chocobos most def DO)
[12:08 AM] BlackMageJT: (Well, there's Scholar pts, but...)
[12:09 AM] Ctelin Ajira: Yeah, I can see the confusion, but I was inspired by the Arcanist and its job paths.
[12:10 AM] Ctelin Ajira: I still agree with your statement of hard to do in rpg maker.
[12:10 AM] BlackMageJT: Yeaaaah. You're already very overdosed on mods, and your game lags on high-end gaming rigs.
[12:11 AM] BlackMageJT: Adding more mods is probably a horrifyingly bad idea.
[12:12 AM] Ctelin Ajira: To be fair, it wouldn't involve any mods I don't already have applied.
[12:12 AM] Ctelin Ajira: But point taken.
[12:13 AM] BlackMageJT: Synthesist could be fun (you could also dress that up as "summoner stepping back")
[12:13 AM] BlackMageJT: Basically, synthesist summons alter the summoner's stats drastically, probably with an AGI boost of some kind.
[12:14 AM] BlackMageJT: For example, Evoker would do something like triple everyone's STR/CON, Summoner could apply CON/RES as one of its actions, while a synthesist would probably gain 4-5x CON with the "defensive" eidolon "equipped"
[12:17 AM] Ctelin Ajira: So if Evoker, apply status spells liberally.  If Pet Class, AT shenanigans are the easiest implementation.  If Synth, apply stat boosts out the ass.
[12:17 AM] BlackMageJT: A little bit. You can also mix/match.
[12:18 AM] BlackMageJT: For Synth, I'd stat them out as E rank across the board, but each "eidolon" would supply abils/stat boosts for a different class.
[12:18 AM] BlackMageJT: For example, an "Invoker" spirit that gives you Invoker stats and some Invoker abils on top of your normal summoner ones.
[12:19 AM] BlackMageJT: or a "Theurge" spirit that gives you some White Mage abilities.
[12:19 AM] BlackMageJT: or "Wizard" for Black Mage
[12:19 AM] BlackMageJT: rinse/repeat for as many classes as you care for.
[12:19 AM] Ctelin Ajira: On TOP of multiclassing?  That seems excessive.  And awesome.
[12:20 AM] BlackMageJT: Yeah, you'd have to be careful if someone secondary classes Synth
[12:20 AM] BlackMageJT: If you really wanted to, you could make their eidolon abils mainclass only.
[12:21 AM] BlackMageJT: I'd also mention adding a smattering of abils to make sideclassing it useful, but you already have soldier.
[12:22 AM] Ctelin Ajira: And Onion Knight.
[12:22 AM] BlackMageJT: but expect the player base to sideclass eidolon until the shiny they want is unlocked, then start maining it, and building to shift into the "form" they want (which will probably have slightly better stats than the equivalent class) and then they still get their off-class abils(edited)
[12:27 AM] BlackMageJT: Though, if you make "Berserker" and "Red Mage" eidolons, and allow to sub Time Mage, the resultant brokenness is on you...
[12:28 AM] Ctelin Ajira: Well, now that you've mentioned it, even I won't be THAT guy.
[12:29 AM] Ctelin Ajira: So, Synth can be a second subclass if it wants, on top of stats out the wazoo.  Evoker can be the world's best support.  And Pet can either be a Battle Chocobo or a set of AT shenanigans.
[12:29 AM] Ctelin Ajira: I like this.
[12:29 AM] Ctelin Ajira: :laughing: