Richard Nixon Al Haig Conversation May 11 1973 12:07-12:43

A conversation between Richard Nixon and Al Haig on how to deal with the unfolding Watergate crisis. The following transcript is from Stanley Kutler's vital book about the Nixon administration, Abuse of Power.

Accompanying clip, with transcript and audio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqn0rUTOINs

MAY 11, 1973: THE PRESIDENT AND HAIG, 12:07-12:43 P.M.,
OVAL OFFICE

The White House receives startling news on May 11. CIA Deputy Director Vernon Walters, a longtime Nixon friend, had prepared a series of "memcoms" (memorandum communications) in July 1972, detailing the White House's attempts to have the CIA thwart the FBI investigation of the Watergate burglary. Immediately, the Administration seeks to impose a national security blanket over Walters' memos. Lengthy conversations follow to consider damage control. "This was a Dean plot," the President insisted. The <i>New York Times</i> published the material the next month, and while they anticipate the August 1974 revelations for the "smoking gun" tape of June 23, 1972, the documents had little impact at the time. Haig uses the situation to enhance his command and to further segregate the President from his former aides. The President, for his part, is anxious to draw apart from Ehrlichman, who was deeply involved with the Plumbers.

SEGMENT 1

HAIG
We have some very fast actions here this morning.

NIXON
Yeah.

HAIG
Walters was called back by [outgoing CIA director James] Schlesinger from his trip to the Far East about CIA involvement with the White House, primarily through Dean. Walters came in to me and gave me eight memcoms of the meeting here with Haldeman and Ehrlichman in July of last year, and a series of subsequent meetings with Gray and Dean. I - when I read them, I thought they were quite damaging to us. I said, what are you doing with these and where are they? He said that Schlesinger had ordered him to take them over and deliver a copy to me and a copy to the Attorney General. So, I immediately called Buzhardt [J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr., White House counsel] in and we both read it. And we said, these papers can't go anywhere. We sent him back to the agency, told him not to take any telephone calls, return here immediately with every copy. And these are vital national security matters and cannot go anywhere.

NIXON
What did these deal with, Al?

HAIG
They deal with Dean's efforts to-to get a CIA cover for the Watergate defendants.

NIXON
But were Haldeman and Ehrlichman trying to do it too?

HAIG
Haldeman and Ehrlichman's discussion was in the direction of having Walters go directly to the Attorney - or to the Director of the FBI-

NIXON
Yeah.

HAIG
-and tell him that this involved national security matters and that he should quiet down about the investigation.

NIXON
Right.

HAIG
And that it had gone far enough and it was getting wider. It was beginning to get into CIA business, Mexican money...Walters refused and kept saying-

NIXON
Thank God.

HAIG
That's right. He kept saying, you're going to drag the President into this this way. You are-

NIXON
That's right.

HAIG
I will not be a part of this.

NIXON
That's right.

HAIG
So, then he went to Gray. They told him to go to Gray. He did and he hd just arrived over at the Agency. Because they told him that it was involving CIA and he hadn't had a chance to check and he did exactly what he was told. He went to Gray, and Gray said, no, I don't know of any CIA involvement. You better check that. But he also quoted a discussion he had with you in the memcom, which isn't helpful for our purposes.

NIXON
Who? Walters?

HAIG
No, no, no. Gray did. He said, I called the President and told him this case was bad. It involved people high up in the White House and he should clean house. This is July.

NIXON
John Ehrlichman, yeah.

HAIG
Well, he didn't mention any names...Then there were subsequent, numerous contacts by Dean going in there-

NIXON
What did he say I said?

HAIG
That you didn't say anything....There's nothing - no incriminating statements from you of any kind....

SEGMENT 2

HAIG
The-then the subsequent memcoms are approach after approach by Dean in July and August, trying to get the CIA to put these defendants under CIA mantle, including the-

NIXON
This is Dean?

HAIG
Yes, this is Dean. Including, telling the-

NIXON
This guy did some business for himself.

HAIG
Oh, unbelievable, unbelievable.

NIXON
There is more and more of this stuff that doesn't sound like Ehrlichman and the rest. Let me tell you my conversation. I remember my conversation with Gray to this day. He called me. No, I called him, as I told you, about the other thing. He said, there's some stuff in the White House - there are people in the White House you ought to - he didn't say clean house. But what he said is that there are some people in the White House, he said, that aren't giving you all the facts here. And I said, well, Pat, you have to got to go out and get the facts. I didn't tell him - here. And I said, well, Pat, you have got to go out and get the facts. I didn't tell him-

HAIG
Well, we had that, you see, and Gray confirms that, and press ahead.

NIXON
What's that?

HAIG
Press ahead with the investigation is what you told him...

NIXON
I told him that he was to press ahead with the investigation.

HAIG
So, but in any event, it's very - these things are very damaging to Dean.

NIXON
Yeah.

HAIG
Now, Walters is very clean. He flat refused each time and he-

NIXON
But the point is, are they damaging to Haldeman and Ehrlichman?

HAIG
A little bit, a little bit, yes, apparently by innuendo, yeah, quite-

NIXON
I mean, do they mention the President?

HAIG
No, except for the way Walters transcribed what Gray said to him.

NIXON
He's got it in a memcom?

HAIG
He's got it in a memcom. Now, I've got all these memcoms and he's on his way back and he's going to give them to Buzhardt. These memcoms cannot get out under any circumstances.

NIXON
Yeah, right.

HAIG
Now, I've called Schlesinger and I've told him that Buzhardt would be in touch with him but that we are reviewing these memcoms for - for executive privilege due to the whole broad character of it. He said, I understand completely. And I said - now, the next thing Buzhardt said we have to do: you immediately get in touch with Bob's lawyer and John's lawyer-

NIXON
Yeah.

HAIG
-and tell him about this and make sure they know what we're doing.

NIXON
That's right.

HAIG
Then after we make the assessment of the discussion with Bob and John, we are going to tell Walters to go over to [Henry] Petersen and say, the Agency has been under attack here. I've been called back and I am prepared to testify. Alright. And Walters is very good...Everything he says is going to help you.

NIXON
Huh?

HAIG
Everything he says is going to help the President.

NIXON
Yes.

HAIG
That I'm sure.

NIXON
I know. As I told you, I was a babe in the woods when they told me about this thing. I frankly thought it was a CIA thing-

HAIG
What these guys have done is just incredible, and in order to fight it (unintelligible) second crisis (unintelligible) Now, the FBI has gotten to a point with the trial [Ellsberg] in California. Of course, it's going to be a mistrial, and we want it to and the quicker the better. It can't go any other way.

NIXON
That's right. Get it over with and forget it.

HAIG
That's right. So, we have the option now to burn his [Judge Matthew Byrne] ass for the reports on the wiretap on Ellsberg.

NIXON
Don't give them...

HAIG
Let me go through this. The FBI has found out that they have come (unintelligible). They are going to see Ehrlichman and Haldeman this afternoon, and interrogate where the papers are. They've asked to see me. Now. These papers are clear executive prvilege. National security. But we do want to consider the fact - Henry won't like this, but I do - now giving Byrne the one report on Ellsberg and Halperin [Morton Halperin, member of the National Security Council], that shows the character of these sonsabitches.

NIXON
Give it up!

HAIG
And if he doesn't leak it, then we'll get it out.

NIXON
And we'll do that on the basis that this is national security matters (unintelligible) The other national security things don't involve (unintelligible)...

HAIG
[Acting FBI Director] Ruckelshaus is trying to get to me. I don't want to talk to him until we've got a strategy lined up.

NIXON
Right.

HAIG
His guy, the same fellow I talked about last night, spilling his guys all over the west coast, the newspapers-

NIXON
[Mark] Felt. [later to be revealed to be Deep Throat]

HAIG
Including the names of the newspaper people Joseph Kraft and Henry Brandon, and all those people. And Ruckelshaus feels that we've got to make some kind of a statement on this that's got to be associated with Watergate and it's going to be interpreted...

NIXON
Right, and what did he say?

HAIG
He would say that, yes, J. Edgar Hoover, the Attorney General-

NIXON
With the approval of the Attorney General.

HAIG
With the approval of the Attorney General, approves the reason for taps, one led to another...

NIXON
Yes, and they were - the taps were because of leaks of national security documents - national security documents. The newsmen were tapped only for the purpose of determining who was leaking to them...Their names came up, that there - that no implication whatever should be attached to any of the newsmen because basically the purpose of it was the purpose of the leaks that occurrred.

HAIG
I think we have to do this and we should let Ruckelshaus do it.

NIXON
Right. He should put it out (unintelligible).

HAIG
Well, it probably ought to be done tomorrow and concurrently with that, you know, during this investigation even when it might be known. There have been leaks of this information before the investigation was completed and among those was this man who's being discharged.

NIXON
Felt.

HAIG
Fire his ass...Now, that, we'll have to investigate...

NIXON
Blame it on Felt...

HAIG
Sir, he's going to do it whether we fire him or we keep him, and if we fire him and discredit him, everything he says from thereon is going to be-

NIXON
[Does Ruckelshaus] want him fired?

HAIG
Yes. Now I haven't talked to him, but I got that indirectly.

NIXON
Yeah. We have to play the game. Look, now we're clean on this thing.

HAIG
I know it.

NIXON
I'm clean on this thing. I didn't do anything about this CIA thing. This was a Dean plot, period.

HAIG
Oh, yeah.

NIXON
He cooked the thing up and apparently talked to Haldeman and Ehrlichman about it, and I'll bet you that they didn't approve the Goddamn thing.

HAIG
But you see, Walters's testimony is going to help. He's going to say constant pressure from Dean. "I [Walters] kept saying you are going to drag the President into this kind of thing. You must get me a written instruction." He never got it, which <i>ipso facto</i> proves that Dean was operating on his own.

NIXON
He's never had anything from me in writing.

HAIG
Never had - never had anything that he could say the President wants this. The President is behind it. He doesn't even drag in, according to Walters, Bob or John. Now, John is a little - he's in more trouble on this than Bob is. Bob-

NIXON
How is John in more trouble-

HAIG
Well, because he apparently was the man that was talking about the trial, getting in - getting the investigation snuffed out in the meeting that Bob and John had, you know, that the thing is getting too wide. Well, we have to leave it up to Walters and that is a problem.

NIXON
But Walters's memcoms should not get out. Don't you agree?...He will testify and what will he say, though, about his memcoms?...

HAIG
He's going to say, oh, yes, I made notes, if they ask him.

NIXON
Of course, he's got a photographic memory. He said I made - I made notes here.

HAIG
"I [Walters] made notes but I turned them over because they involved a lot of discussion of covert techniques and things of the national security" - and we'll just take executive privilege on it. Now, Buzhardt says he doesn't think they'll ask because Walters is so good and so quick and he'll have his calendar...

NIXON
And also he recalls everything. Walters says I recall everything and he says I can't - my notes, whatever notes, involves - I made some notes which are secure. They do involve, however, covert - other covert activities and so forth...

(16:01-18:45)

...Second point. Regarding the other thing, Walters is going to testify.

(18:50-19:40)

HAIG
Schlesinger...instructed him to turn his memcoms in. It's known over in the CIA that he [Dean] was the guy who called over there...

(19:53-20:44)

NIXON
He [Walters] did lay it on Dean?

HAIG
That's right. That's right. And he's a - is very helpful to the President...

(20:58-21:15)

...Our problem is to be sure and have Bob and John describe the purpose of the meeting in July.

NIXON
With Dean.

HAIG
With Walters. See, they called Walters over, Bob and John together...

(21:33-21:59)

NIXON
...Do his [Walters's] memcoms indicate that Bob and John cooked up the scheme and told Dean to carry it out? Was that the deal?

HAIG
Yes. If you read these papers, you would get that impression because of the way the sequence - the timing. The first big meeting was - the first time Walters was exposed was to sit in front of John and Bob.

NIXON
Yes.

HAIG
And he was told to go over and get Gray to tone down the investigation.

NIXON
Because of the CIA.

HAIG
Yes.

NIXON
Well, John's [Ehrlichman] reaction to that could be very well that he was concerned about Hunt and the things that he had been investigating. Now, that's perfectly proper, you know what I mean, to tone it down in terms of those - of that.

HAIG
That's right, and Hunt in the meantime has been running around over at the CIA and Walters cut him off because he was asking for things that were not right...

(22:54-23:19)

NIXON
...I'm trying to think of what Dean is going to say. Do you think that Dean has got these memcoms?

HAIG
Nobody has. No one has...

(23:27-24:10)

NIXON
I see. I see. Well, the point is, who the hell do you think was the culprit? Do you think maybe Bob and John? Well-

HAIG
No, I don't think so at all.

NIXON
He [Dean] could have been trying to cook the Goddamn thing up with Walters.

HAIG
I don't know about John [Ehrlichman], but Bob I'm sure, absolutely not. There's no way. Okay. There's another thing that we have to be very careful on and we have to know where John stands. That's why I don't want to move on any of this.

NIXON
Yeah.

HAIG
He's generally a little - it indicates he may have been in on the strategy for the (unintelligible).

NIXON
John?

HAIG
John. And again, it's just innuendo, but that's why we have to-

NIXON
Well, look, don't have Buzhardt talk to him...

HAIG
Buzhardt has told me, for God's sake, don't talk to him.

NIXON
For you not to?

HAIG
Yeah. He said "don't or you're going to end up as a key witness discredited very quickly." ...You know, I'm willing to do that and that's a risk, though.

NIXON
Well, maybe I better talk to Bob. That's possible. Not to John. I don't want to talk to John but I could talk to Bob...

HAIG
Well, to get a feel for how they're going to play that. That meeting - that's a very crucial thing...


(25:48-26:14)

...The FBI is going to see Bob and John - Bob at 5:00 tonight.

NIXON
About this thing?

HAIG
No, not about this, but about those [NSC] tapes, and we've got to know how to play that one too.

NIXON
Yes.

HAIG
So, we've got to coordinate all. They're all linked together.

NIXON
On the tapes, get Buzhardt to play those as solely national security...

(26:37-27:13)

HAIG
See, I talk to Larry [Higby] and I keep Larry cut in and he goes to Bob right away.

NIXON
Yeah, I know. I know. Why don't I just - I just think I better get Bob and have a frank talk with him. I know that that could be off the record.

HAIG
What we think, you know, is that John [Ehrlichman] is not trying to - it's inconceivable that he would but-

NIXON
Trying to say that I ordered this [CIA cover-up]?

HAIG
Yeah, that he wouldn't try to protect himself.

NIXON
Oh, my God. Well, that's unbelievable...I didn't do it.

HAIG
No, of course not. But I say we just have to - and what he says, how he describes that meeting it's important that we know.

(28:06-28:17)

NIXON
...[L]et's suppose I called him [Haldeman] in and said, look, concoct a story to the CIA and get Walters off of this thing, so forth and so on. Goddamn it. He can't say that...It's totally privileged to begin with.

HAIG
It's totally privileged.

NIXON
But beyond that, it is not true. Second, it's privileged, totally privileged. It's terribly detrimental...

(28:38-29:06)

...All right. What - get - for my own guidance, what do you want me to tell Bob...? First, do you want me to tell him to see Buzhardt?

HAIG
Yes.

NIXON
This afternoon?

HAIG
Yes. It's important...

(29:18-33:25)

NIXON
Let me ask you to see if - see if we can have Bob over so that I can see him by one o'clock. Have him slip into the Executive Office Building office...

HAIG
You don't want people to see him talking to you. I really don't think you should....

(33:47-34:09)

...I just don't think it's a good idea to have too much evident contact. He could come in here and get in easier. I think he could get in here [Oval Office] easier...

NIXON
Well, one crisis every hour, but you're all right, aren't you? Well, I still think we're on the way up.

HAIG
I think we've got a bridge now to get people concerned about the truth....We were going to ask Bob whether or not it's all right for us to get these [NSC] tapes and these reports of these sixteen tapes, you know, the earlier one....

NIXON
Let me put it this way, Al. You look at them. I'd rather have you rather than Buzhardt. And then give them to him.

HAIG
See there's nothing in them.

NIXON
Huh?

HAIG
There's nothing in them...

NIXON
Well, do you know?

HAIG
I know every tape [from his days as Kissinger's deputy].

NIXON
All right, fine. Give them to Buzhardt then. It's done...