undertale flowey conspiracy theory

So... I've been on the record as saying that the latter parts of Undertale's story (meaning: everything outside of Neutral) are a bit of a letdown compared to the rest of the game, in such a way that seems to indicate that either there was a significant re-write of parts of the story at the last minute, or that the game was simply rushed toward the end and the writing suffered as a result. I've been treating it this way for a while, but there's another theory I've had for a while that I haven't said much about because I wasn't really sure until recently that it held any water. But the more I think about it, the more sense it seems to make, so I might as well throw this out there.

I partially believe, but cannot prove definitively, that the majority of these "problems" with Undertale's narrative were completely intentional and are an indication that the game's deeper meta-narrative is not yet finished. There are a LOT of reasons to believe that there will be either a patch or second game sometime in the future that will expand on the story in some way; many of these reasons are well-known, others are more subtle. This isn't going to be a full-length essay, so I'm not gonna go into full detail here, but here's a brief overview.

On its surface, Undertale seems to be a complete, albeit flawed, story that is wrapped up neatly in the True Pacifist ending. The barrier is broken, all the monsters get to go free and live in the outside world; and Asriel, although transformed back into an emotionless flower, seems to be satisfied with the result. Everyone lives happily ever after, the end. But if you're one of those brave enough to do the Genocide route (which is intended to be the last route you do), you'll learn some things that call that "happy" ending into serious question. More specifically, you'll learn things about two characters in particular - Asriel and Sans - that will make you question whether or not the True Pacifist ending really was the best outcome for everyone.

First, Asriel. In Genocide, Asriel (as a flower) opens up to you in New Home and tells you his tragic story from the moment he woke up as a flower. During this story, it becomes increasingly apparent that Asriel's life as a flower was nothing short of pure hell - being stuck in a body with no arms or legs, unable to feel love for anyone, was such a miserable existence for him that it drove him to attempt suicide and apparently warped him over time into a deranged murderous psychopath. The implication is that, contrary to the assurances Asriel gave you at the end of Pacifist that he would be fine, he absolutely will NOT be fine and has basically been condemned to return to a living hell - except now, without anyone there with him in the Underground to so much as keep him entertained. What kind of "happy ending" is that?

Then there's Sans. At various points in the game, including the second half of the Asriel fight, Sans says some things that imply that there was some place he used to live that he can't return to, and that there are people he will never see again. He also shows signs of depression and hopelessness related to this in the Asriel fight, which were supposedly cured by him befriending you. But in Genocide, it becomes clear that Sans has an entire background that you knew nothing about. Apparently, he was a scientist on a research team investigating anomalies in the space-time continuum, and something happened that tore him away from his old home and his old friends (presumably his fellow researchers). His inability to go home, and his knowledge that nothing he does matters because you'll just reset the timeline (along with everyone's memories) anyway, has made him hopeless and nihilistic, and the so-called "happy ending" in Pacifist doesn't do anything to fix any of this.

The plot threads related to Sans here lead down the path into the game's files and the mysteries surrounding Gaster, which I won't go into here since you can easily find the information elsewhere. What I want to talk about is the stuff related to Asriel.

When I first finished the True Pacifist ending and took some time to process everything I had just seen, I was seriously convinced that the whole thing with Flowey being Asriel was a ruse - a clever charade orchestrated by Flowey to try to make you think you had gotten a "happy ending" so that you would stop playing the game and leave him in control of the timeline. I figured that Genocide would reveal this, and then the Genocide ending would wrap everything up into a satisfying conclusion. Obviously, I was wrong, so I kind of reluctantly accepted that Flowey really was Asriel, and took comfort in the fact that Genocide had kind of smoothed out the issues that had made it hard to believe they were the same character. After a LOT of research and thought, however, I think I may have been too quick to just dismiss the idea out of hand.

First, let's look at the Pacifist ending itself, and what happens to Asriel in the end. You "SAVE" him, restore his emotions, make him admit that he's been alone and afraid for a long time, he breaks the barrier, and then... he turns back into a flower and goes right back to the same miserable existence he was stuck in before. Why? What's the point, from a narrative standpoint, of keeping him alive and miserable in such anotherwise happy ending? Why not just let him go home, or (if you want a more bittersweet ending) let him pass on and finally rest in peace? Hasn't the poor kid been through enough? He freed everyone; doesn't he deserve a happy ending too? The ending would be exactly the same if he were to just die instead of turning back into a flower, and that seems like the simpler and more obvious option from a writer's standpoint. So why did Toby Fox *specifically* choose to keep Asriel alive and turn him back into a flower? And why sentence him to an eternity of suffering, in direct contradiction to the game's theme that even the worst person deserves mercy?

And why have Asriel be so *insistent* that you "just forget about" him? Look at how his dialogue is worded:

"
In a little while...
I'll turn back into a flower.
I'll stop being "myself."
I'll stop being able to feel love again.
So... Frisk.
It's best if you just forget about me, OK?
Just go be with the people who love you.
"

This is classic reverse psychology. Even though Asriel as a character appears to be speaking sincerely, it seems VERY clear upon examination that Toby Fox himself intended it to be a guilt-trip. How many times have you heard a character say "Please, just leave me behind, save yourself instead", followed by the protagonist defying that request and saving the person anyway? From a writing standpoint, it seems like the subtext the player is supposed to understand here is "Asriel is still not saved, and you should definitely NOT forget about him".

If, during the playable epilogue, you backtrack to the flower patch where you started the game, Asriel will be there and will give you some additional exposition foreshadowing the Genocide route. However, he still insists that he can't come with you because he doesn't want to break anyone's heart, and that it's better if no one ever sees him. Again, the narrative subtext here is clear: Asriel still needs to be saved, and your job isn't done yet. However, no matter what you do, you can't bring him with you, and your only choice is to leave him behind. Despite all the clear hints that Toby Fox keeps dropping, there is no way to save Asriel. But besides the idea of mercy, isn't "determination" a huge theme of Undertale's story? What happened to staying determined, loving your friends, and never giving up? Frisk is supposed to be the most determined being in the Underground, and yet... he just gives up*. He gives up, and leaves Asriel behind. What's the deal?

[*I use the male pronoun for Frisk because I named him (actually Chara, but whatever) after me. sorry not sorry xd]

From this alone, it seems like something is (intentionally) very wrong with the True Pacifist ending. So how does this relate to my beef with the Flowey=Asriel twist?

Let's look at another part of the True Pacifist ending: the credits. After the first part of the credits, the screen turns to static and Asriel appears again, in "evil" form with "You Idiot" playing in the background, saying "Did you REALLY think this was over?", before turning back into normal form and saying "I mean, we haven't even done the special thanks yet!" It seems like a silly gag, but it also serves as a subtle reminder that Flowey/Asriel has a long history of doing this - of pretending, very convincingly, to have been defeated, only to reveal that he really had the upper hand the whole time. Even though it turns out to just be a gag, it still hints at the possibility: what if this really WAS just another ruse, and this really ISN'T over yet? It certainly wouldn't be without precedent...

In this light, lots of stuff that didn't add up before starts to make sense. Why did Flowey turning out to be Asriel seem so underwhelming and implausible? Why did his motivation seem to inexplicably change from "I want to become God and murder everyone" to "I want to keep you around so I can play with you forever because I see you as my childhood friend"? Why did he suddenly start believing you to be Chara after True Lab, when beforehand he had referenced Chara in the 3rd person in one of the post-neutral monologues right after telling you he doesn't want to be your friend? Why did he seem to think Chara was a good person in the Pacifist route, whereas in Genocide the WHOLE REASON he "recognizes" you as Chara is because you slaughter everyone in the Ruins? Why does Asriel HIMSELF lampshade this very inconsistency when you talk to him at the flowerbed in the playable epilogue?

Consider also how much less powerful Asriel is in his boss fight than Omega Flowey. Despite having more soul power than he did as Omega Flowey, Asriel has absolutely no control over the timeline and no ability to break the fourth wall. Shouldn't he be essentially omnipotent? He clearly has the equivalent of seven souls, since he's able to break the barrier. Didn't he say before that having the power of seven souls would allow him to "become GOD"? You would think he'd be able to edit the game code itself at that point. Instead, he has so little control that he can't even stop you from reviving yourself whenever he kills you. Even using his "full power", the most he can do is stop you from moving your cursor on the HUD; as opposed to as Omega Flowey, when he completely broke the entire turn-based RPG interface altogether.

I could go on like this, but you get the idea. It almost seems like Flowey just made up the whole True Pacifist ending to get rid of you and regain control over the timeline once he realized he couldn't fight you at full power without having you free all the souls so they can rebel against him. Considering how weak he is in True Pacifist, it may be that he simply absorbed the souls and did not actually use their power; that way, they would remain dormant and wouldn't be able to rebel. This would make sense, since at the beginning of a Pacifist run, Flowey explicitly says that he wants to see you either kill someone or get frustrated and give up so that he can regain control over the timeline.

So how did he attain Asriel's form? Part of what made this theory seem plausible to me when I first completed True Pacifist was that, besides being able to immitate voices and faces, there's a line in the game that strongly suggests that he's also a shapeshifter. During the Muffet fight, she says the following:

"
The person who warned us about you...
Offered us a LOT of money for your SOUL.
They had such a sweet smile~ and... ahuhu~
It's strange, but I swore I saw them in the shadows... Changing shape...?
"

This is clearly meant to refer to Flowey - besides the "sweet smile" part, Flowey secretly stalks you the entire game and can be seen retreating underground in various places if you backtrack. Some people have said that this can't be Flowey since he needs you alive to get rid of Asgore, but remember that Flowey knows you can't actually die - bribing Muffet to kill you may have just been another obstacle he decided to throw in your way just to make your life more difficult. If Flowey truly can change shape, then that brings the entire Asriel fight and True Pacifist Ending into serious question, and seems to imply that Flowey may be even more conniving and manipulative than previously thought.

But hey, that's just a theory...

A GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME THEORY

THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKS FOR WAAAAAAAAAAATCHING