Detainment (2018)

1
00:02:03,263 --> 00:02:04,330
Jon.

2
00:02:35,183 --> 00:02:37,654
Do you know why we
wanna talk to you, Jon?

3
00:02:39,167 --> 00:02:40,769
I don't know,

4
00:02:41,718 --> 00:02:43,277
I think so.

5
00:02:44,321 --> 00:02:46,548
Why do you think I
wanna talk to you?

6
00:02:48,303 --> 00:02:49,827
About that boy.

7
00:02:50,867 --> 00:02:54,327
- Yes?
- Because someone took him and killed him.

8
00:02:54,352 --> 00:02:55,466
Yes.

9
00:02:55,491 --> 00:02:58,584
It wasn't me, I never
went to Bootle Strand.

10
00:02:58,803 --> 00:03:00,977
Well we're not gonna
talk about that just now.

11
00:03:01,487 --> 00:03:03,939
First we're gonna talk
about something else.

12
00:03:05,692 --> 00:03:07,723
Do you know what truth is, Jon?

13
00:03:08,312 --> 00:03:09,379
Yeah.

14
00:03:10,762 --> 00:03:14,274
Go on, you tell
us what you think truth is.

15
00:03:16,266 --> 00:03:20,024
That you've done
something and it's true.

16
00:03:21,205 --> 00:03:23,478
And what if you
were telling lies?

17
00:03:27,016 --> 00:03:28,216
I don't know.

18
00:03:29,667 --> 00:03:31,664
Is telling lies wrong?

19
00:03:31,796 --> 00:03:35,754
- Yeah.
- So if I said that your face is green

20
00:03:35,779 --> 00:03:38,654
and your hair is pink,
would that be a lie?

21
00:03:38,983 --> 00:03:40,140
Yeah.

22
00:03:40,165 --> 00:03:43,149
Okay, so you know what a lie is.

23
00:04:18,853 --> 00:04:22,250
Robert, you've seen the
pictures on TV

24
00:04:22,275 --> 00:04:25,993
showing James and the two boys
who took him, haven't you?

25
00:04:26,985 --> 00:04:30,680
Yeah, it isn't me
'cause I didn't take him.

26
00:04:31,305 --> 00:04:32,709
Well there's a boy in the video

27
00:04:32,734 --> 00:04:34,838
who has a jacket
just like yours.

28
00:04:35,437 --> 00:04:37,851
There's lots of jackets
the same as mine.

29
00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:42,212
Well there's also a boy with a jacket
like Jon's walking next to James.

30
00:04:42,624 --> 00:04:44,772
Well, he's not walking with me.

31
00:04:45,326 --> 00:04:47,256
But you were there, weren't you?

32
00:04:47,904 --> 00:04:49,953
Yeah, I was there.

33
00:04:50,154 --> 00:04:52,818
I saw him but I didn't take him.

34
00:04:56,127 --> 00:04:57,673
What was he doing?

35
00:04:57,791 --> 00:05:01,517
He was just with his mum,
he had a blue coat.

36
00:05:07,329 --> 00:05:09,187
I think, Jon, you
should know that Robert

37
00:05:09,212 --> 00:05:10,938
is at Walton Lane police station

38
00:05:11,212 --> 00:05:14,047
and he's told a different story
of what happened on Friday.

39
00:05:14,766 --> 00:05:16,704
Robert probably told lies.

40
00:05:17,601 --> 00:05:19,716
What do you think
Robert lied about?

41
00:05:20,242 --> 00:05:23,617
I don't know, you
think I killed the kid?

42
00:05:23,851 --> 00:05:25,872
No, they don't think that, Jon.

43
00:05:25,897 --> 00:05:27,583
There's no need to get upset.

44
00:05:27,608 --> 00:05:29,545
No one's saying that, Jon.

45
00:05:30,209 --> 00:05:32,162
They just want to
know where you've been.

46
00:05:32,318 --> 00:05:35,165
If you've been robbing all
day, you should tell them.

47
00:05:35,294 --> 00:05:37,622
I never went to Bootle Strand.

48
00:05:37,763 --> 00:05:39,677
Now is that the truth or a lie?

49
00:05:39,911 --> 00:05:41,184
The truth.

50
00:05:42,294 --> 00:05:43,620
Jon told me earlier that Robert

51
00:05:43,645 --> 00:05:45,442
was going to tell
all kinds of lies.

52
00:05:46,051 --> 00:05:48,442
Robbie took me to
places I didn't know.

53
00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:50,323
He's frightened
because he doesn't know

54
00:05:50,347 --> 00:05:52,402
all the places and Robert does.

55
00:05:54,144 --> 00:05:56,238
Was it the Bootle Strand?

56
00:05:56,263 --> 00:05:59,247
No. - You see, Robert says
that he was with you

57
00:05:59,544 --> 00:06:02,042
and that you were indeed in
Bootle New Strand together.

58
00:06:02,067 --> 00:06:04,151
- We wasn't.
- Robert says you were.

59
00:06:04,176 --> 00:06:07,030
Yeah, we was but we
never saw any kids there,

60
00:06:07,097 --> 00:06:08,580
we never robbed any kids.

61
00:06:08,605 --> 00:06:10,447
So you were in
Bootle New Strand?

62
00:06:10,472 --> 00:06:11,736
Was you at Bootle Strand?

63
00:06:11,761 --> 00:06:16,072
Yeah, but we never got a
kid, mum, we never got a kid.

64
00:06:16,206 --> 00:06:19,440
Mrs. Venables, would you, I must
ask you not to get angry with him.

65
00:06:19,581 --> 00:06:21,813
We never got a kid,
mum, we never,

66
00:06:21,838 --> 00:06:24,063
we saw those lads
together, we did,

67
00:06:24,088 --> 00:06:27,172
we never got a kid, mum,
mum, we never got a kid,

68
00:06:27,197 --> 00:06:30,923
you think we did, we never,
mum, we never.

69
00:06:37,743 --> 00:06:39,579
I think you saw more of James

70
00:06:39,696 --> 00:06:41,242
because you wouldn't
remember a blue coat

71
00:06:41,266 --> 00:06:43,273
- from a brief glance.
- I never took him.

72
00:06:43,649 --> 00:06:45,225
Well, we believe that you left

73
00:06:45,250 --> 00:06:47,039
with baby James and with Jon.

74
00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:49,765
- Says who?
- We say.

75
00:06:50,031 --> 00:06:52,421
No, I never left with him.

76
00:06:53,836 --> 00:06:55,914
Well, tell me
what happened then.

77
00:06:56,642 --> 00:06:58,242
I never touched him.

78
00:07:00,184 --> 00:07:01,730
I never touched him.

79
00:07:02,043 --> 00:07:04,137
That's why you noticed
his anorak,

80
00:07:04,598 --> 00:07:07,262
because Jon had hold of
his hand, isn't that right?

81
00:07:10,428 --> 00:07:13,411
Yeah, Jon grabbed
hold of the baby's hand

82
00:07:13,436 --> 00:07:15,600
and just walked around
with him for a bit,

83
00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:18,001
but then he let him go loose.

84
00:07:18,404 --> 00:07:20,216
Where did Jon let him go?

85
00:07:20,591 --> 00:07:21,800
By the church.

86
00:07:21,825 --> 00:07:23,495
I told Jon to take him back.

87
00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:24,932
Well I have a statement
from a woman

88
00:07:24,957 --> 00:07:28,344
who said she saw two boys
with a baby on the reservoir.

89
00:07:28,925 --> 00:07:31,324
Now I think that's you
and Jon with James.

90
00:07:33,184 --> 00:07:34,910
What happened to him?

91
00:07:35,590 --> 00:07:37,723
We just found him at
the bottom of the hill.

92
00:07:37,926 --> 00:07:39,489
Did he have a fall?

93
00:07:39,605 --> 00:07:41,558
That's a bad bruise.

94
00:07:42,019 --> 00:07:43,784
He was like that when
we found him.

95
00:07:43,979 --> 00:07:46,831
You'd best take him to
Walton Lace Police Station,

96
00:07:46,865 --> 00:07:48,106
do you know where it is?

97
00:07:48,131 --> 00:07:50,031
Yeah, we'll bring him now.

98
00:08:03,183 --> 00:08:05,947
If you knew that I
went to Bootle Strand--

99
00:08:05,972 --> 00:08:08,118
I would have strangled you, yeah.

100
00:08:08,143 --> 00:08:11,736
And wouldn't you have thought
I'd killed a kid, I never--

101
00:08:12,228 --> 00:08:14,298
I'd never think that.

102
00:08:14,681 --> 00:08:17,899
Because, because
I would have told,

103
00:08:18,032 --> 00:08:20,242
because I thought
you'd think I done it.

104
00:08:21,055 --> 00:08:23,062
If I would have known
all this now, Jon,

105
00:08:23,906 --> 00:08:26,603
I would have had you down
the police station right away

106
00:08:27,616 --> 00:08:29,795
instead of them banging
on my front door

107
00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:32,194
making a show of me
in the streets.

108
00:08:32,952 --> 00:08:34,202
But I,

109
00:08:35,293 --> 00:08:37,585
I thought you'd think I killed him.

110
00:09:14,791 --> 00:09:17,520
We just found him, he
was lost at the Strand.

111
00:09:18,002 --> 00:09:20,223
We're bringing him to
the police station now.

112
00:09:20,439 --> 00:09:22,135
If you found him by the Strand,

113
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,769
why didn't you bring him to the
police station by the Strand?

114
00:09:25,331 --> 00:09:28,987
We were bringing him to
Walton Lane Police Station.

115
00:09:29,823 --> 00:09:33,729
Well, you've come an awfully long way from
the Strand to Walton Lane Police Station.

116
00:09:33,932 --> 00:09:36,182
Well, that's where
the man directed us.

117
00:09:36,274 --> 00:09:37,640
Where do you live?

118
00:09:38,674 --> 00:09:40,892
The police station
is on the way home.

119
00:09:41,674 --> 00:09:43,308
Are you all right?

120
00:09:46,906 --> 00:09:49,054
We'll bring him to
the police station.

121
00:09:50,195 --> 00:09:51,858
Would you mind looking
after my little girl

122
00:09:51,882 --> 00:09:53,413
while I take him to the station?

123
00:09:53,538 --> 00:09:56,626
Oh, my dog doesn't
like children,

124
00:09:56,858 --> 00:09:59,128
he's afraid of them, sorry.

125
00:09:59,764 --> 00:10:02,398
Okay, boys, do you know
which way you're going?

126
00:10:02,509 --> 00:10:04,201
Yeah, we know.

127
00:10:06,899 --> 00:10:09,072
Are you sure you know the way?

128
00:10:09,097 --> 00:10:11,063
I'll go that way, missus.

129
00:10:24,043 --> 00:10:26,629
So, you did leave
with James then?

130
00:10:27,434 --> 00:10:29,870
Yeah, we went to the Strand

131
00:10:29,895 --> 00:10:31,361
and we picked up
little James up.

132
00:10:31,386 --> 00:10:33,660
Well, he, Jon did.

133
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,285
Right.

134
00:10:35,613 --> 00:10:38,144
Then we took him down
and left him on the How.

135
00:10:38,245 --> 00:10:39,511
On the How?

136
00:10:40,003 --> 00:10:41,251
By the railway.

137
00:10:41,276 --> 00:10:43,111
Why did you leave James there?

138
00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,134
'Cause if we took him
to the police station,

139
00:10:45,158 --> 00:10:49,509
then we'd have to go inside. He wasn't
crying anymore, he was just looking around,

140
00:10:49,892 --> 00:10:51,647
he'd only had a graze.

141
00:10:52,657 --> 00:10:54,508
Now, would you
have left baby Ben,

142
00:10:54,633 --> 00:10:56,867
your brother there,
if he was two?

143
00:10:57,593 --> 00:10:59,695
No, 'cause he's my brother.

144
00:11:00,211 --> 00:11:02,132
And would you have
left a similar boy?

145
00:11:02,499 --> 00:11:05,742
He's not, though, he's
not any relation to us.

146
00:11:07,021 --> 00:11:09,029
Mum, is Jon getting asked this?

147
00:11:10,373 --> 00:11:12,887
Robert says that you
took James by the hand

148
00:11:12,912 --> 00:11:14,810
and led him out out to
the Strand shops.

149
00:11:14,943 --> 00:11:17,708
- We never, we never--
- No, not we,

150
00:11:17,865 --> 00:11:19,847
Robert is saying that
you took him by the hand.

151
00:11:19,872 --> 00:11:23,153
- We never.
- Not Robert, you did it.

152
00:11:23,178 --> 00:11:25,504
- I never.
- Well, why would Robert say that about you?

153
00:11:25,529 --> 00:11:26,527
He's a liar!

154
00:11:26,552 --> 00:11:28,981
- All right, come on love, you tell them the truth.
- I never took him

155
00:11:29,005 --> 00:11:31,654
by the hand, I never
even touched the baby.

156
00:11:31,919 --> 00:11:34,090
- Jon, are you all right to carry on?
- Yeah.

157
00:11:34,115 --> 00:11:35,691
Jon, look at me.

158
00:11:36,458 --> 00:11:39,495
If you want to stop at
anytime, you just say so.

159
00:11:39,887 --> 00:11:41,573
You need to tell the truth, Jon,

160
00:11:41,598 --> 00:11:43,543
because you keep
telling us stories.

161
00:11:43,568 --> 00:11:45,291
I never got the boy.

162
00:11:45,316 --> 00:11:47,987
Well, if you never got the
boy, tell us what happened.

163
00:11:48,393 --> 00:11:49,592
Was it Robert?

164
00:11:51,723 --> 00:11:56,340
- You're nodding your head.
- Yeah, he left him in the road.

165
00:11:57,098 --> 00:11:58,854
Right, well, let's
go back to the Strand.

166
00:11:58,879 --> 00:12:01,350
No, I never touched a boy,
mum, I never.

167
00:12:01,375 --> 00:12:02,441
Okay.

168
00:12:04,947 --> 00:12:06,789
Come here, son, all
right, come on, come on.

169
00:12:07,041 --> 00:12:09,414
- Oh God, no.
- Settle yourself down.

170
00:12:09,439 --> 00:12:11,790
I can't, I never touched him.

171
00:12:12,173 --> 00:12:14,071
Sit down, go to your mum.

172
00:12:14,096 --> 00:12:16,845
All right, all right, you're
going to get me crying now, look.

173
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:21,005
- I never, mum.
- I know you wouldn't, I know you wouldn't do that to a boy.

174
00:12:22,072 --> 00:12:26,087
All right, well, why don't
you tell us what happened, Jon?

175
00:12:26,377 --> 00:12:27,810
I left Robert on his own.

176
00:12:28,368 --> 00:12:31,211
Tell me the truth,
now Jon, please.

177
00:12:31,236 --> 00:12:32,646
I never killed him, mum,

178
00:12:32,671 --> 00:12:35,249
we took him and left the
canal, mum, that's all.

179
00:12:35,484 --> 00:12:37,632
He left him at the canal,
by the Strand?

180
00:12:37,657 --> 00:12:38,702
Yeah.

181
00:12:38,727 --> 00:12:40,218
Where did you find the
boy in the Strand?

182
00:12:40,242 --> 00:12:43,241
I don't know, he was just
walking around on his own.

183
00:12:43,266 --> 00:12:46,101
I never killed him, mum,
I never killed him, mum,

184
00:12:46,126 --> 00:12:47,373
I wouldn't hurt a baby.

185
00:12:47,398 --> 00:12:48,858
I know you wouldn't hurt a baby.

186
00:12:48,883 --> 00:12:51,999
I wanna go home, I've already
told you what I know.

187
00:12:52,358 --> 00:12:55,475
You're gonna put me in jail,
I never, mum!

188
00:12:56,858 --> 00:13:00,193
I never, I never, I never,
I never, I never, I never.

189
00:13:08,646 --> 00:13:11,200
You see, Robert, if
James was bleeding

190
00:13:11,614 --> 00:13:13,910
and we find his blood on
your clothes or Jon's,

191
00:13:14,285 --> 00:13:16,485
then we'd know that you were
there when he was bleeding.

192
00:13:16,778 --> 00:13:18,996
But how would you know
it was baby James' blood?

193
00:13:19,285 --> 00:13:21,567
We'd know because
we have his body.

194
00:13:21,833 --> 00:13:22,934
Where?

195
00:13:23,121 --> 00:13:24,777
Well, it doesn't matter where,

196
00:13:25,347 --> 00:13:27,527
he's probably been to
the hospital first.

197
00:13:27,552 --> 00:13:28,699
Why?

198
00:13:29,230 --> 00:13:32,167
To take blood from his
arm like they did with you.

199
00:13:32,558 --> 00:13:35,362
They've taken him to
try get him alive again?

200
00:13:35,939 --> 00:13:37,040
No.

201
00:13:37,441 --> 00:13:39,846
No, they can't do that.

202
00:13:41,327 --> 00:13:43,101
I was told he got
chopped in half,

203
00:13:43,452 --> 00:13:46,061
well, he couldn't come
alive again, could he,

204
00:13:46,339 --> 00:13:48,170
if he'd been chopped in half?

205
00:13:51,726 --> 00:13:54,764
The blood might be mine 'cause
I was bleeding from a cut.

206
00:13:55,734 --> 00:13:58,701
Well, you couldn't
do that with your shoe

207
00:13:59,124 --> 00:14:01,476
and the blood has been
found on your shoe.

208
00:14:04,309 --> 00:14:06,209
I never murdered him.

209
00:14:07,215 --> 00:14:09,946
You're just trying to
say that I murdered him.

210
00:14:10,394 --> 00:14:12,515
Why aren't you
doing this to Jon?

211
00:14:12,688 --> 00:14:15,786
Ask Jon, I never touched him.

212
00:14:52,569 --> 00:14:53,756
Jon,

213
00:14:54,693 --> 00:14:57,204
your dad and I want to say something to you

214
00:14:58,245 --> 00:15:00,487
and it's important, all right?

215
00:15:00,772 --> 00:15:02,011
Okay.

216
00:15:02,925 --> 00:15:04,745
We want you to know that

217
00:15:05,484 --> 00:15:08,815
we love you, very, very much.

218
00:15:10,474 --> 00:15:12,008
More than anything.

219
00:15:13,224 --> 00:15:15,978
And nothing is going
to change that, okay?

220
00:15:16,761 --> 00:15:18,300
- Okay.
- So...

221
00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:21,407
What I'm trying to say, Jon,

222
00:15:21,432 --> 00:15:26,289
is that no matter what happens,
no matter what you've done,

223
00:15:26,314 --> 00:15:29,458
even if it's really, really bad,

224
00:15:31,291 --> 00:15:34,134
we'll always love you,
you know that, don't you?

225
00:15:34,159 --> 00:15:35,225
Yeah.

226
00:15:36,978 --> 00:15:39,134
We'll always love you, Jon.

227
00:15:40,666 --> 00:15:42,611
But you've got to
tell the truth.

228
00:15:44,082 --> 00:15:45,253
Mum.

229
00:15:51,308 --> 00:15:53,660
Mum, I wanted to tell you.

230
00:15:59,326 --> 00:16:00,857
I did kill him.

231
00:16:26,704 --> 00:16:28,314
What about his mum?

232
00:16:29,656 --> 00:16:31,579
Will you tell her I'm sorry?

233
00:16:37,683 --> 00:16:39,753
Where did you find James?

234
00:16:41,379 --> 00:16:42,679
At the butcher's.

235
00:16:43,175 --> 00:16:45,206
And whose idea
was it to take him?

236
00:16:46,542 --> 00:16:49,651
Mine, then it was
Robert's idea to kill him.

237
00:16:51,475 --> 00:16:53,162
Why did you want to take him?

238
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:57,913
I just said to Robert, is
that boy lost or something?

239
00:16:58,458 --> 00:17:00,723
We were looking around
for his mum for a bit,

240
00:17:01,809 --> 00:17:05,371
but then we got fed up and
we went outside to the canal.

241
00:17:07,212 --> 00:17:10,587
Come on, baby, come on, let's
look at the water, come on.

242
00:17:10,612 --> 00:17:12,045
Let's push him in.

243
00:17:15,068 --> 00:17:18,209
Then Robert picked him up
and threw him on the floor,

244
00:17:18,521 --> 00:17:20,942
and that's how he got
the bump on his head.

245
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,864
- Was he crying then?
- Yeah.

246
00:17:31,614 --> 00:17:35,020
We ran away but
then we came back

247
00:17:35,731 --> 00:17:38,004
and he was already
walking up to us.

248
00:17:57,254 --> 00:17:59,135
I'm sick of having
my little brother,

249
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,855
I have him from school
all the time.

250
00:18:01,199 --> 00:18:04,128
I'm gonna tell my mum I
ain't gonna mind him no more.

251
00:18:06,607 --> 00:18:07,674
Come on.

252
00:18:41,619 --> 00:18:43,705
We got to the middle of
the bridge

253
00:18:44,557 --> 00:18:46,604
and Robert opened the paint tin,

254
00:18:47,184 --> 00:18:48,395
and then

255
00:18:50,108 --> 00:18:52,426
he threw it in James' face.

256
00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:56,615
I can't tell you anything else.

257
00:18:57,505 --> 00:18:58,572
Why?

258
00:19:00,550 --> 00:19:02,589
'Cause that's the worst bit.

259
00:19:05,775 --> 00:19:08,416
Okay, right,

260
00:19:09,424 --> 00:19:11,280
I know that's the worst bit,

261
00:19:12,009 --> 00:19:14,328
but you know what you
did and if you try hard,

262
00:19:14,353 --> 00:19:15,818
you'll be able to tell us.

263
00:19:16,242 --> 00:19:18,531
Just have a little rest,
think about it

264
00:19:18,556 --> 00:19:20,462
and just tell us what happened.

265
00:19:22,335 --> 00:19:24,226
We took him on the railway

266
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,164
and started throwing
bricks at him.

267
00:19:27,530 --> 00:19:28,663
Who did?

268
00:19:29,614 --> 00:19:30,747
Robbie.

269
00:19:32,786 --> 00:19:35,538
He just said, he said,
"Stand there

270
00:19:36,051 --> 00:19:38,442
"and we'll get you a
plaster or something."

271
00:19:39,106 --> 00:19:42,856
Then he lifted this brick
up and threw it in his face.

272
00:19:44,441 --> 00:19:46,282
You've denied a lot
of things, Robert,

273
00:19:46,331 --> 00:19:47,850
and then admitted them.

274
00:19:47,987 --> 00:19:49,766
We were right about
those things,

275
00:19:49,791 --> 00:19:51,587
and we're right about
this as well.

276
00:19:51,712 --> 00:19:53,970
Yeah, well, I didn't kill him.

277
00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:57,593
If you just tell them the truth, this
will all be over in a few minutes.

278
00:19:57,759 --> 00:19:59,548
Jon threw a brick in his face.

279
00:19:59,694 --> 00:20:00,960
Why?

280
00:20:01,182 --> 00:20:02,358
I don't know.

281
00:20:02,764 --> 00:20:05,248
Right, we're getting there,
aren't we?

282
00:20:06,170 --> 00:20:07,693
We're getting to the truth now.

283
00:20:08,217 --> 00:20:10,676
Yeah, well, I'm gonna end
up getting all the blame

284
00:20:10,701 --> 00:20:12,160
'cause I've got blood on me.

285
00:20:12,185 --> 00:20:14,497
What happened after
Jon threw the brick?

286
00:20:14,997 --> 00:20:16,527
The brick hit him in his face

287
00:20:16,552 --> 00:20:18,044
and he fell over on the floor.

288
00:20:18,277 --> 00:20:20,112
Why the hell didn't
you just leave?

289
00:20:20,137 --> 00:20:22,402
I did, after that I ran.

290
00:20:22,853 --> 00:20:24,504
I left Jon on his own.

291
00:20:24,989 --> 00:20:28,106
- What was the baby doing?
- He was just on the floor crying.

292
00:20:28,954 --> 00:20:30,692
Was he awake or asleep?

293
00:20:31,105 --> 00:20:32,495
What do you mean?

294
00:20:32,726 --> 00:20:34,425
Like was he asleep, or?

295
00:20:34,566 --> 00:20:36,065
He was awake.

296
00:20:37,535 --> 00:20:39,137
Then Robbie said,

297
00:20:39,982 --> 00:20:42,947
"Pick up a brick and throw it."

298
00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:44,669
But I just,

299
00:20:46,432 --> 00:20:48,315
I threw it on the floor.

300
00:20:49,745 --> 00:20:54,883
I missed it on purpose 'cause
I didn't wanna hurt him.

301
00:20:55,698 --> 00:20:59,416
But then Robbie picked up the
same brick and threw it again.

302
00:21:00,377 --> 00:21:03,926
I don't think that you've
told us the full truth.

303
00:21:04,009 --> 00:21:05,500
That's all I seen.

304
00:21:05,525 --> 00:21:07,250
We already know about
things that happened

305
00:21:07,275 --> 00:21:09,131
and it doesn't explain a lot of things.

306
00:21:09,156 --> 00:21:10,898
And you were there,
like, and seen me?

307
00:21:11,171 --> 00:21:14,538
No, but we can tell what
happened from his injuries.

308
00:21:15,163 --> 00:21:18,040
Why would I take flowers over
to the baby if I killed him?

309
00:21:18,655 --> 00:21:22,044
I know the truth, I
believe I know the truth.

310
00:21:22,155 --> 00:21:23,950
So do I, I was there.

311
00:21:23,975 --> 00:21:25,959
- That's right.
- You weren't.

312
00:21:28,544 --> 00:21:31,552
Then Robbie threw about 10
bricks.

313
00:21:32,365 --> 00:21:34,497
I only threw six or five,

314
00:21:35,607 --> 00:21:38,794
but I missed James and
hit him in the arm

315
00:21:40,302 --> 00:21:42,450
because I never meant
to hit him in the arm,

316
00:21:43,262 --> 00:21:45,802
I wanted to get the
brick to the side of him,

317
00:21:45,827 --> 00:21:47,160
Was he bleeding?

318
00:21:47,790 --> 00:21:49,023
All over.

319
00:21:51,808 --> 00:21:53,300
It's all our family,

320
00:21:53,487 --> 00:21:55,377
it's always our family
that gets the blame.

321
00:21:55,549 --> 00:21:57,634
Your family might've
got blamed in the past,

322
00:21:57,931 --> 00:21:59,758
but on this occasion,
we're right, aren't we?

323
00:21:59,783 --> 00:22:02,017
No, 'cause I never touched him.

324
00:22:02,447 --> 00:22:04,173
Tell us what happened then.

325
00:22:04,572 --> 00:22:06,072
Jon threw another brick.

326
00:22:06,142 --> 00:22:07,712
Where did that hit him?

327
00:22:07,737 --> 00:22:09,103
On there.

328
00:22:09,222 --> 00:22:10,369
What happened then?

329
00:22:10,394 --> 00:22:13,480
Then he hit him again with a big
metal thing that had holes in it.

330
00:22:13,683 --> 00:22:15,386
Where did he hit him with that?

331
00:22:15,753 --> 00:22:18,839
In the head, he just
went like that and hit him.

332
00:22:20,653 --> 00:22:22,442
He hit him with the bar

333
00:22:22,981 --> 00:22:24,957
and I think he was knocked out.

334
00:22:25,387 --> 00:22:28,644
Then we threw a few bricks
at him and we ran away.

335
00:22:29,246 --> 00:22:30,813
Why did you run away?

336
00:22:31,183 --> 00:22:32,710
I don't know,

337
00:22:33,104 --> 00:22:34,950
I just said to Robert,

338
00:22:35,667 --> 00:22:37,901
don't you think we've
done enough now?

339
00:22:39,153 --> 00:22:41,056
Were you angry with James?

340
00:22:41,513 --> 00:22:44,903
No, I didn't really
want to hurt him.

341
00:22:45,817 --> 00:22:47,534
I didn't want to
hurt him or nothing,

342
00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:51,300
'cause I didn't want to
hurt him with strong things,

343
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,168
only, like, light things.

344
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,442
So, you only wanted to
hurt him a little bit.

345
00:23:00,516 --> 00:23:02,266
Answer the question.

346
00:23:03,655 --> 00:23:05,827
Why did you want to
hurt him a little bit?

347
00:23:08,007 --> 00:23:11,585
I mean, I didn't want
to hurt him, really,

348
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,561
Robert probably,

349
00:23:16,233 --> 00:23:18,803
Robbie was probably
doing it for fun or something,

350
00:23:18,928 --> 00:23:20,858
'cause he was laughing his head off.

351
00:23:21,772 --> 00:23:24,533
Why did, why did he do all this?

352
00:23:24,693 --> 00:23:26,107
Why did Jon do all this?

353
00:23:26,209 --> 00:23:28,443
I don't know, that's
what I don't know.

354
00:23:28,709 --> 00:23:30,894
I don't believe, Robert,
that you just stood idly by

355
00:23:30,919 --> 00:23:32,771
while Jon did all those things.

356
00:23:33,214 --> 00:23:34,761
I was trying to pull Jon back.

357
00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:37,355
Job has admitted to throwing
stones, things like that,

358
00:23:37,636 --> 00:23:39,815
but he's also blaming
you on a lot of things.

359
00:23:40,167 --> 00:23:42,151
I don't think Jon
did everything.

360
00:23:42,214 --> 00:23:44,130
Yeah, well, I never.

361
00:23:44,155 --> 00:23:45,356
I think you hit him.

362
00:23:45,381 --> 00:23:46,709
Well, that's what you think.

363
00:23:46,734 --> 00:23:49,443
There's only one person here
that knows the whole truth.

364
00:23:49,468 --> 00:23:52,194
I know, and I've
just said it all.

365
00:23:52,437 --> 00:23:55,858
I know I never hit him so I've
got nothing to bother about.

366
00:23:58,018 --> 00:23:59,401
I can't,

367
00:24:01,057 --> 00:24:03,198
I can't sit through any more of this.

368
00:24:05,958 --> 00:24:08,668
Did either of you
take James' clothes off?

369
00:24:10,193 --> 00:24:13,107
Robert pulled his
pants off and his undies

370
00:24:13,857 --> 00:24:15,818
and I pulled his shoes off.

371
00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:19,950
Why?

372
00:24:21,797 --> 00:24:25,461
I don't know why, it was
last week, I keep forgetting.

373
00:24:26,935 --> 00:24:28,598
I don't any more now, dad.

374
00:24:28,856 --> 00:24:31,066
He's asking me too
hard questions.

375
00:25:12,337 --> 00:25:13,586
Why would I want to kill a baby

376
00:25:13,611 --> 00:25:15,298
when I've got a baby of my own?

377
00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:19,469
If I wanted to kill a baby,
I'd kill my own, wouldn't I?

378
00:25:19,993 --> 00:25:22,985
Well, you said your own
baby is family, didn't you?

379
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:24,499
What do you mean?

380
00:25:24,524 --> 00:25:26,092
Well, that's what you said.

381
00:25:26,117 --> 00:25:27,881
I know he's my family,
I'm not stupid.

382
00:25:27,906 --> 00:25:29,616
I don't even know what
you're going on about.

383
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,757
When James' body was found,

384
00:25:32,241 --> 00:25:34,600
his bottom clothing had been removed.

385
00:25:35,568 --> 00:25:37,529
Can you tell us why that is?

386
00:25:37,554 --> 00:25:40,841
- No.
- Did you start playing with him?

387
00:25:41,433 --> 00:25:42,598
With who?

388
00:25:43,543 --> 00:25:45,152
With James' bottom.

389
00:25:45,358 --> 00:25:46,691
No.

390
00:25:46,716 --> 00:25:47,980
Are you sure now?

391
00:25:48,222 --> 00:25:50,379
Yeah, I'm not a pervert,
you know?

392
00:25:50,472 --> 00:25:53,464
Jon says it was you who pulled
off his pants and his underpants.

393
00:25:53,722 --> 00:25:55,970
So in other words,
you're taking what Jon says

394
00:25:55,995 --> 00:25:58,384
and just ignoring me,
so I'll ignore you.

395
00:25:58,409 --> 00:26:00,776
There was an injury to James' mouth.

396
00:26:02,295 --> 00:26:03,777
Do you know anything about that?

397
00:26:03,802 --> 00:26:06,295
No, I'm not answering any more.

398
00:26:07,471 --> 00:26:10,306
I think there's still some
things you haven't told us, Jon.

399
00:26:11,267 --> 00:26:14,353
The batteries, why were
the batteries there?

400
00:26:15,742 --> 00:26:16,778
I don't know.

401
00:26:16,803 --> 00:26:18,238
I think you do know, Jon.

402
00:26:18,263 --> 00:26:20,723
I never put them there,
Robert just threw them.

403
00:26:20,748 --> 00:26:22,660
It was a little bit
more than throwing them.

404
00:26:22,685 --> 00:26:25,490
I don't know, I don't know, dad.

405
00:26:25,826 --> 00:26:28,732
Jon, is it horrible what
happened to the batteries?

406
00:26:28,911 --> 00:26:31,769
I don't know anything about what
Robert did with the batteries.

407
00:26:31,794 --> 00:26:32,964
Why are you crying then?

408
00:26:32,989 --> 00:26:36,917
Because you'll blame it on me, that I had
them, I don't know about the batteries,

409
00:26:36,942 --> 00:26:38,807
I don't know, I don't know.

410
00:26:38,832 --> 00:26:40,978
Hey, hey, don't go
to punch your dad.

411
00:26:41,003 --> 00:26:42,994
My dad thinks I
know and I don't.

412
00:26:43,019 --> 00:26:46,206
You're saying I do and I don't,
I only know he got killed.

413
00:26:46,231 --> 00:26:47,731
Calm down, Jon.

414
00:26:48,925 --> 00:26:50,860
Can you tell us what
happened to James' mouth?

415
00:26:50,885 --> 00:26:53,196
I don't know, I
never saw nothing.

416
00:26:53,221 --> 00:26:54,899
Jon, you've got to
admit to yourself

417
00:26:54,924 --> 00:26:56,930
but you saw everything
that happened there

418
00:26:56,955 --> 00:26:58,665
because you were a part of it.

419
00:26:58,690 --> 00:26:59,773
No, I never.

420
00:26:59,798 --> 00:27:01,874
So you can't say you didn't see.

421
00:27:01,899 --> 00:27:04,539
No, I want my mum,
please, I never.

422
00:27:04,859 --> 00:27:07,115
Please, I don't know,
make it stop, dad,

423
00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:08,974
please, make it stop,
make it stop,

424
00:27:08,999 --> 00:27:11,812
make it stop, make it
stop, make it stop!

425
00:27:31,295 --> 00:27:33,139
We're gonna take a drive, Jon.

426
00:27:33,428 --> 00:27:37,085
We'll start at the Strand and you can
show us the route you took from there.

427
00:28:41,314 --> 00:28:43,204
Look, that's us.

428
00:28:45,598 --> 00:28:47,200
There's a lot of those around.

429
00:28:47,225 --> 00:28:49,725
You don't need them now, do you?

430
00:28:53,118 --> 00:28:55,271
How come my picture is
in black and white,

431
00:28:55,296 --> 00:28:57,016
and Robert's isn't?

432
00:29:00,493 --> 00:29:02,149
Don't know, Jon.

433
00:29:15,070 --> 00:29:17,171
Was that a train going past?

434
00:29:18,237 --> 00:29:21,417
- Yeah.
- I know all them trains.