>Ross: Defend Ockzel's Honor

(9:53:00 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Is there any indication that Amaswe is going to come back after this?
(10:06:11 PM) unseeingAugur: By the way? Tell Lunlun that if raw vegan chocolate chunk cookies aren't enough for an apology, that I will give her a combination for a rolling pin so she can make something for herself. Okay?
(10:06:16 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Almost certainly not. He probably just did so on mislaidLullaby's behalf.
(10:06:32 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Another question that will piss everybody off
(10:06:38 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Do we even want him to?
(10:06:51 PM) ***unseeingAugur has uploaded the file "fuckthesestupidcookiesistabbedmyselfseventeentimesmakingthem.png" to the memo
(10:06:55 PM) unpatchedPirate: but let torry or izzy know if mi5laid come5 back 5o i can hug her, ok?
(10:06:57 PM) ventricularPipefitter: I do, Adam.
(10:07:17 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Seventeen?
(10:07:18 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I do not, Ross
(10:07:27 PM) tenaciousTheseus: What has he done?
(10:07:36 PM) ***stanzicApparati has downloaded file "fuckthesestupidcookiesistabbedmyselfseventeentimesmakingthem.png" from the memo
(10:07:36 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He leaves, and when he comes back
(10:07:41 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Everything explodes
(10:07:45 PM) stanzicApparati: i do
(10:07:52 PM) ***unpatchedPirate left the memo
(10:07:55 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Gee, perhaps that's because he came back planning to make trouble.
(10:08:03 PM) unseeingAugur: Adam? I like him. He's a good person, and he means well. He just happens to have a temper and a very sharp tongue. He's been hurt badly by people in the past, don't even /pretend/ people have given him a chance to change his tune since he started off with the royalty bit.
(10:08:18 PM) stanzicApparati: toni cannot say sorrrrrrry if he doesn't come back
(10:08:24 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And what has he done with that chance?
(10:08:34 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He has done nothing but be an insufferable asshole at every turn
(10:08:56 PM) stanzicApparati: cannot get forrrgiveness forrrr what she did if he does not come back
(10:08:59 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Excuse me, Adam, can you parse? "don't pretend we have given him a chance."
(10:09:03 PM) ventricularPipefitter: That is to say, there wasn't one.
(10:09:15 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I think we have
(10:09:16 PM) unseeingAugur: By the way? Those cookies took me fourteen hours to make because I was trying to navigate an unfamiliar kitchen. Apparently there were loose knives and pizza cutters and vegetable peelers /everywhere/.
(10:09:32 PM) tenaciousTheseus: There was plenty of times we let him in without moderating him
(10:10:11 PM) unseeingAugur: Sigh.
(10:10:14 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Who would you rather have in-chat: Brahim, Heries, or Amaranth?
(10:10:15 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And then we step on his "highblood" pride and he starts insulting us
(10:10:20 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Heries
(10:10:21 PM) ***melancholyMemory has casually logged off the memo.
(10:10:24 PM) unseeingAugur: That is not how you help a person who's been hurt to stop hurting people.
(10:10:25 PM) tenaciousTheseus: She's trying, at least
(10:10:31 PM) unseeingAugur: Stop rising to his bait.
(10:10:32 PM) stanzicApparati: sorrrrry abel
(10:10:39 PM) stanzicApparati: sorrrry sorrry sorrry
(10:10:50 PM) melancholyMemory left the room (quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).
(10:10:52 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Sigh
(10:10:53 PM) ventricularPipefitter: How often does he actually -pull rank-, did you notice?
(10:10:54 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Let's just
(10:11:09 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Actually, I have a theory on that
(10:11:19 PM) tenaciousTheseus: But
(10:11:21 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Sure? PM it to me.
(10:11:22 PM) unseeingAugur: Do tell.
(10:11:26 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Let's talk about something else
(10:11:31 PM) unseeingAugur: I'd like to hear it as well, please.
(10:11:47 PM) stanzicApparati: what theorrrry?
(10:11:48 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Sure, what do you want to talk about instead?
(10:12:07 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (His adult name)
(10:12:09 PM) unseeingAugur: But yeah, Cyma. Blind kid gets to learn how to make cookies to apologize to your moirail because apparently staying alive and making sure Noah didn't die permanently and his baby niece wasn't killed wasn't enough for her.
(10:12:13 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (Engineer Amaranth, yes?)
(10:12:18 PM) unseeingAugur: I offlined and worried her.
(10:12:19 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" ( /Engineer/)
(10:12:23 PM) unseeingAugur: So. I'm bitter.
(10:12:24 PM) unseeingAugur: Talk to her for me?
(10:12:27 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (That is not the title of a captain)
(10:12:28 PM) stanzicApparati: will
(10:12:41 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (And other parts of people from his session)
(10:12:44 PM) unseeingAugur: There's her cookies. If she complains, fuck it I give up she can be mad at me forever.
(10:12:52 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (Mainly beneficentTutor)
(10:13:06 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (She's the Heir, but)
(10:13:15 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (She was raised by a goatmom)
(10:13:27 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (Which Izzy, a maroonblood, was raised by)
(10:13:29 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (So)
(10:13:35 PM) ***unseeingAugur PMs "Adam", "Ross": (It's pretty obvious. His matesprit's a legal lime and worked in law enforcement.)
(10:13:39 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (What if seadwellers were not on the top?)
(10:13:54 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (What if they were at the bottom, where maroons were at the top?)
(10:14:06 PM) ***tenaciousTheseus PMs "Pipes" "Abel" (And is this something everyone else already figured out?)
(10:14:08 PM) ***unseeingAugur PMs "Adam", "Ross": (He was probably basically a slave. Seadwellers are hardy, right? Think of all the things that Snaplock's said to him about seabloods.)
(10:14:09 PM) ***ventricularPipefitter PMs "Abel" "Adam" ( Take this to a side memo rather than three-way PM, shall we? #caste )

(10:14:47 PM) tenaciousTheseus: So
(10:14:54 PM) ventricularPipefitter: So what are you going to do about it?
(10:15:01 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Nothing
(10:15:06 PM) tenaciousTheseus: What would I gain?
(10:15:09 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Why would I want to?
(10:15:19 PM) unseeingAugur: You just gained perspective.
(10:15:27 PM) unseeingAugur: What does the fact that he was a lowblood say?
(10:15:33 PM) ventricularPipefitter: *Good*, Adam.
(10:15:46 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He was underprivileged
(10:15:52 PM) tenaciousTheseus: A second-class citizen
(10:15:53 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Massively so.
(10:15:56 PM) unseeingAugur: No.
(10:16:03 PM) unseeingAugur: A second class citizen would have been a teal.
(10:16:11 PM) unseeingAugur: He was a gillbreather.
(10:16:25 PM) unseeingAugur: Probably along the lines of a freak for having fins and being in the ocean.
(10:16:33 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I can imagine
(10:16:39 PM) ventricularPipefitter: The polluted ocean, you'll notice he remarks.
(10:16:45 PM) unseeingAugur: If the oceans are polluted on /regular/ Alternias, imagine how bad they'd be.
(10:17:02 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Also
(10:17:12 PM) tenaciousTheseus: When has he remarked about polluted oceans?
(10:17:17 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I don't remember that...
(10:17:29 PM) unseeingAugur: Not everyone's on at the same time.
(10:17:38 PM) unseeingAugur: But I've caught it a couple times, I think?
(10:17:46 PM) unseeingAugur: Strong, hardy, long-lived physical labor.
(10:17:51 PM) unseeingAugur: Basically slaves.
(10:17:55 PM) unseeingAugur: Engineer.
(10:18:00 PM) unseeingAugur: What does that say?
(10:18:07 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Menial labor
(10:18:13 PM) unseeingAugur: Working in spacecraft. Hot, cramped, dry air from engine rooms.
(10:18:14 PM) tenaciousTheseus: One who works with the engines and such
(10:18:30 PM) unseeingAugur: Do you know how delicate gills are? How sensitive fins are to temperatures?
(10:18:47 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I can guess
(10:19:31 PM) ventricularPipefitter: I don't need to.
(10:19:42 PM) unseeingAugur: Blindfolded, deafened, blinded and beaten almost senseless, a seadweller can still tell where you are when you're a person'slength away, as long as the air isn't circulated in a room. Just from your body temperature. And that's in plain air.
(10:20:10 PM) tenaciousTheseus: So
(10:20:13 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He had a shitty life
(10:20:15 PM) unseeingAugur: His job was the skilled technician's equivalent of working in a coalmine.
(10:20:18 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He played Sburb
(10:20:21 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Met other torlls
(10:20:23 PM) tenaciousTheseus: *trolls
(10:20:28 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Who started bowing and scraping
(10:20:29 PM) unseeingAugur: Other trolls who he couldn
(10:20:33 PM) unseeingAugur: 't connect to.
(10:20:40 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And he realized seadwellers were royalty
(10:20:42 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And...
(10:20:52 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Then did he just start taking advantage of that?
(10:20:56 PM) unseeingAugur: The first time he pulled rank, do you know what he did?
(10:20:59 PM) ventricularPipefitter: And had a chance to fucking /leave/ the shit-hole life he had behind and be somebody else for a while.
(10:21:14 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He was talking to VS
(10:21:16 PM) tenaciousTheseus: The pilot
(10:21:20 PM) unseeingAugur: He told Valiant Skies to take her programming back and give the programming back to the rogue pilot.
(10:21:21 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Got her to attack Logs
(10:21:22 PM) unseeingAugur: Now.
(10:21:23 PM) ventricularPipefitter: You've surely known people who took Sburb as a chance to reinvent themselves.
(10:21:25 PM) unseeingAugur: Let's project.
(10:21:35 PM) unseeingAugur: If yellows were lowbloods
(10:21:50 PM) unseeingAugur: And you'll have noticed, I'm sure, that he slips and says 'golds' on occasion
(10:22:02 PM) unseeingAugur: That would make their psiionics high nobility.
(10:22:04 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Mmhm
(10:22:10 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I remember Kamsya
(10:22:12 PM) unseeingAugur: They'd be treated well.
(10:22:18 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He mentioned pilots being a position of honor
(10:22:22 PM) unseeingAugur: So, he /thought/ he was helping them both.
(10:22:23 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Heh. cadentCorona
(10:22:36 PM) unseeingAugur: He pulled rank to help a damaged /and/ a rogue pilot.
(10:22:58 PM) ventricularPipefitter: How long have /you/ been thinking about this, Abel?
(10:23:43 PM) unseeingAugur: I have a lot of free time and he gives me a sense of being hurt. Li's obviously known him for ages, and she's from what I was pretty sure was a world with a reversed hemocaste order.
(10:24:05 PM) unseeingAugur: Also? There's two of me.
(10:24:18 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Point. You two have a lot of time to think.
(10:24:26 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Or compare notes. Or brainstorm.
(10:24:32 PM) unseeingAugur: We can take turns thinking and confer every once in a while, exactly.
(10:24:50 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Useful trick. Wonder if I could safely set it up.
(10:25:08 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Never been much for personal hacks, and this is massively tangential.
(10:25:10 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Try being Mist
(10:25:15 PM) unseeingAugur: If you can help me stabilize this situation, I'll help you brainstorm with /whatever/ you want.
(10:25:17 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Possibly Raun
(10:25:24 PM) tenaciousTheseus: *rain
(10:25:31 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Tens, I'd do it with *Heart*
(10:25:45 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Well
(10:25:53 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Fractured identity is the path of Heart
(10:25:58 PM) tenaciousTheseus: So I've heard, at least
(10:26:05 PM) ventricularPipefitter: wooping with the subjuglators.
(10:26:10 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Back on topic.
(10:27:01 PM) unseeingAugur: He's been hurt. He's tried to help, he's tried to protect himself, he became pretty much instantly hated and what's he supposed to do, let the highbloods and the goldbloods and the bronzebloods and the rosebloods walk all over him?
(10:27:35 PM) unseeingAugur: Really, we caught him in a bad position and have /kept/ him there. He hasn't pulled rank in god knows how long unless someone started before him, /or/ if it had to do with Snaplock.
(10:27:59 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Hm
(10:28:17 PM) unseeingAugur: And interactions between coauspitees should be pretty much ignored by principle past telling their cloverhead about the altercation.
(10:30:21 PM) tenaciousTheseus: ..You know, this is all making his arrogance seem hypocritical
(10:30:44 PM) ventricularPipefitter: He's a damn fine player for his session count.
(10:30:50 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I could at least understand it if it was the product of a lifelong propaganda thing
(10:31:05 PM) ventricularPipefitter: People that don't have much to be proud of hold on /very tightly/ to what they do have.
(10:31:16 PM) ventricularPipefitter: I'm not going to tell someone they can't be proud.
(10:31:32 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Even if it's not theirs? Even if it's exactly what beat them up in the first place?
(10:31:45 PM) unseeingAugur: I don't think he's arrogant so much as he is defending himself.
(10:32:22 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And as a tangentially related poinr
(10:32:27 PM) tenaciousTheseus: What's up with Cyma?
(10:32:36 PM) ventricularPipefitter: When you say 'not theirs' and 'exactly what beat them up,' what are you talking about, precisely?
(10:33:01 PM) tenaciousTheseus: His arrogance
(10:33:08 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Stems from being a seadweller, so I thought
(10:33:14 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He certainly has the "Seadwellers are better" mindset
(10:33:15 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Doesn't mean it isn't.
(10:33:35 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And he lords over everyone, or at least tries to
(10:33:39 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Does he?
(10:33:51 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Being shit on by society doesn't change 'tough as nails, strong, aquatic, lives forever.'
(10:33:52 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Being the same kind of bully who had tormented him in the first place
(10:33:58 PM) unseeingAugur: I think you've let your initial interactions with him color your judgment.
(10:34:16 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I think I let his asshole nature cloud my judgement
(10:34:17 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Wow, Adam, you've never known a kid that got bullied to grow up mean themselves?
(10:34:22 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Pff
(10:34:29 PM) tenaciousTheseus: That practically describes me
(10:34:39 PM) ventricularPipefitter: yeah. And we tolerate *you*
(10:35:03 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Also, wow, Adam, you've never known an oppressed minority group to band together and take pride in its culture and experience?
(10:35:08 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Because I know enough of social workings to not step on toes every time I open my mouth
(10:35:15 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And, well
(10:35:20 PM) ventricularPipefitter: And he didn't /either/.
(10:35:30 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Never really knew any minorities
(10:35:33 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Where I grew up was pretty whitewashed
(10:35:48 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And most of what he's saying seems to be condescending towards /some/ body
(10:36:02 PM) ventricularPipefitter: I am a filthy cajun mulatto from New Orleans, and after that, the swamps. Trust me, I know what that looks like.
(10:36:27 PM) unseeingAugur: I grew up in a facility as a guinea pig.
(10:37:50 PM) unseeingAugur: And I had a family of 249 siblings, at a time.
(10:38:36 PM) unseeingAugur: Doesn't matter that I didn't know their names and might never run into them again, if someone was hurt I'd help /because/ we shared a common trait and because we were stuck in the same situation.
(10:39:06 PM) tenaciousTheseus: The only ones I've seen him actually be kind and thoughtful to were the seadwellers...
(10:39:48 PM) ventricularPipefitter: 'warm' and 'helpful' are two different things.
(10:40:05 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Yes
(10:40:18 PM) ventricularPipefitter: He had a way with the truth that I appreciated when it wasn't pissing me off.
(10:40:49 PM) unseeingAugur: He's been plenty kind to me. It might have been cool, but hey, I get it. He's not blind, I don't have gills, we understand each other and that's that.
(10:41:16 PM) unseeingAugur: But here's the bottom line. If he /changes/ /his/ /behavior/ and /people/ /keep/ /condemning/ him for his past actions? He's going to get sick of things.
(10:42:02 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I would rather condemn him for what he just did
(10:42:16 PM) ventricularPipefitter: He's also tight with Maria.
(10:42:18 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Which was storm in here and yell at everybody
(10:42:33 PM) ventricularPipefitter: He was backing her up.
(10:43:19 PM) unseeingAugur: People have been treating her pretty thoughtlessly, too.
(10:43:19 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I'm not privvy to most of the fallout from Lunlun's fanfic, but was it something she really needed to bring him in on?
(10:43:33 PM) unseeingAugur: Let's see.
(10:43:37 PM) ventricularPipefitter: He's uh.
(10:43:40 PM) ventricularPipefitter: the other one in it?
(10:43:54 PM) unseeingAugur: And, let's see.
(10:44:03 PM) unseeingAugur: May I project a bit?
(10:44:24 PM) ventricularPipefitter: go for it.
(10:45:16 PM) ventricularPipefitter: 've been keeping my mouth shut because that way I'm not running my mouth off about his private business, but what the two of you end up speculating I can't obviously stop you from.
(10:45:56 PM) unseeingAugur: Maria sounds like she's been pretty alienated by people lately. I heard from Mornei that he's been trying to connect with her, and lately it's been strained. He hears angelsong in her 'Consort Skree'ing. Skye and her have been at ridiculous odds. Her session sounds like it's going awfully.
(10:47:11 PM) ventricularPipefitter: It's disentegrating,socially. I'm worried about them all.
(10:47:26 PM) unseeingAugur: So. That means she has, what. One person in her session that's working well with her lately? And she apparently has been, what, the butt of everyone's joke or /something/, because really. "Piss off Maria day" seems like a pretty good sign that people are treating her pretty badly in the chat.
(10:47:47 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Accidentally
(10:47:54 PM) unseeingAugur: So?
(10:48:08 PM) tenaciousTheseus: So it's not a conscious thing
(10:48:19 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Not like we decided to piss her off
(10:48:25 PM) unseeingAugur: Is this accidentally like you accidentally accusing her of being a cannibal, then apologizing, and thinking you were forgiven without her word for it?
(10:48:48 PM) unseeingAugur: People are /sensitive/ and just because you've made your gesture doesn't mean they've accepted it and are over whatever hurt you've caused them.
(10:49:02 PM) unseeingAugur: In any case. She feels slighted, isolated.
(10:49:08 PM) unseeingAugur: That's her side of things.
(10:49:12 PM) unseeingAugur: Let's take a look at Ock?
(10:49:26 PM) ventricularPipefitter: 'Thoughtless' is the word that comes to mind, regarding accidents and hurtful words.
(10:49:50 PM) unseeingAugur: How did he get chased off of the chat? I mean, I heard from Mornei through Maria that he ragequit. Recently, because she only just heard about it and he caught a couple rants.
(10:50:02 PM) unseeingAugur: Why did he?
(10:50:06 PM) tenaciousTheseus: He was emote-punched by some newb
(10:50:11 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Because a Rain player told him too
(10:50:28 PM) unseeingAugur: So. Someone he hadn't gotten a chance to know was already treating him like he's an asshole.
(10:50:33 PM) tenaciousTheseus: That was the straw that broke the camel's back, considering what had happened previouslt
(10:50:55 PM) unseeingAugur: After he's been making an /effort/ to change his behavior, and people such as yourself have been treating him the same as always.
(10:51:36 PM) unseeingAugur: And this is /on/ /top/ of a breakup with Ross and Snaplock and a possible Matesprit that keeps looping and losing her memories.
(10:51:47 PM) unseeingAugur:  /And/ a not-moirail whose name is Brahim.
(10:51:53 PM) unseeingAugur: Who just started a new session.
(10:52:01 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And is Sanding all over the place
(10:52:06 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I was there
(10:52:12 PM) unseeingAugur: And dumped Cyma, everyone's heard that, he probably did something to Amar as well.
(10:52:21 PM) unseeingAugur: So. He's also feeling isolated, alone, hurt.
(10:52:22 PM) tenaciousTheseus: By...
(10:52:28 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Extension, sort of
(10:52:43 PM) unseeingAugur: Okay.
(10:52:44 PM) unseeingAugur: So.
(10:52:46 PM) ventricularPipefitter: By extension? In fact.
(10:53:09 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I was referring to Brahim's video
(10:53:34 PM) unseeingAugur: Oh.
(10:53:38 PM) unseeingAugur: I wasn't talking that.
(10:53:40 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Frog and Ring I want to punt him through time and have him wake up in three months out of a long dream.
(10:53:47 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Wherein he's much more mature and quested.
(10:53:48 PM) unseeingAugur: I was talking Brahim, saying or doing something personally to Ock.
(10:53:55 PM) tenaciousTheseus: You'll have to get in line
(10:54:03 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Time. I can skip to the front.
(10:54:10 PM) unseeingAugur: Now, what does that give you? Two people, that have bickered on and off, and have a good platonic antagonism that mellowed into a sort of rivalry with traded insults that don't mean anything.
(10:54:11 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Lucky bastard
(10:54:14 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Might give Cyma my spot, though.
(10:54:16 PM) unseeingAugur: And then in comes Lunlun with something that is personal, invasive, and unwanted.
(10:54:31 PM) unseeingAugur: Especially since Mar has never been interested in romance and might be ace, who knows?
(10:54:36 PM) unseeingAugur: And Ock's /got/ a matesprit.
(10:54:47 PM) ventricularPipefitter: (Whether he admits or not or she admits it or not.)
(10:55:26 PM) unseeingAugur: So Maria tells Ock, they've both been hurt, they both feel alone, and alienated from everyone they're in contact with except for each other.
(10:55:46 PM) tenaciousTheseus: They come on here and start yelling
(10:55:54 PM) unseeingAugur: They egged each other on and went to confront everyone.
(10:56:16 PM) unseeingAugur: On each others' behalves.
(10:56:21 PM) unseeingAugur: It's sort of sweet, really.
(10:56:26 PM) unseeingAugur: But the point is.
(10:56:38 PM) unseeingAugur: The chat alienated both of them, and you're /wondering/ why they lashed out?
(10:56:47 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Not really
(10:56:53 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I know why they lashed out
(10:57:11 PM) unseeingAugur: So.
(10:57:16 PM) tenaciousTheseus: What I'm wondering is what consequences do they deserve
(10:57:29 PM) tenaciousTheseus: They were victims, but they victimized in turn
(10:57:35 PM) unseeingAugur: You're angry at him for being angry with everyone for making Maria incredibly unhappy and feeling unwelcome?
(10:57:37 PM) tenaciousTheseus: No one is coming out of this smelling like roses
(10:57:47 PM) unseeingAugur: Stop acting like he's to blame, then.
(10:57:48 PM) ventricularPipefitter: People rarely do, in fights.
(10:58:03 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Just means /both sides/ apologize.
(10:58:05 PM) ventricularPipefitter: And.
(10:58:06 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Hell.
(10:58:11 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Toni and Maria -did- apologize
(10:58:19 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Then they didn't take the other's apology.
(10:58:22 PM) ventricularPipefitter: And it re-escalated.
(10:58:46 PM) unseeingAugur: Did anyone think to get Rick and Cyma in here and mute them both until they were calmed down?
(10:59:36 PM) ventricularPipefitter: This side-line, or?
(10:59:54 PM) ventricularPipefitter: I PMed Rick when it started to alert him to Maria. Cyma was in the entire time.
(11:01:26 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Wanted to mute the whole damn room when that started up. pull everyone aside. take this slowly.
(11:02:21 PM) ventricularPipefitter: On the other hand, moderating AS is....subtextually problematic until I've properly finished patching things up.
(11:04:50 PM) unseeingAugur: Did you try getting Lilura in here? Matesprits may not be moirails but they can still be pretty good at helping to diffuse situations.
(11:05:08 PM) unseeingAugur: As long as they're not, you know. Completely ruled by their emotions.
(11:05:20 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I wasn't here, but
(11:05:27 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Emotions were probably riding high
(11:06:19 PM) ***ventricularPipefitter PMs "Abel" (I froze. Felt like he had a right to be angry and chew some scenery.)
(11:07:44 PM) ***unseeingAugur PMs "Ross": (I don't blame you. I'm sorry things are going sideways on you.)
(11:08:24 PM) ***ventricularPipefitter PMs "Abel" ( Just as I'm starting to get my scrabble on and -grab- those sideways reins, even. )
(11:08:27 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Hnagh.
(11:08:37 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I concur
(11:08:55 PM) unseeingAugur: ... damn. So. You were involved because of Ock, Fret was because of Mair, and Vitt was... busy?
(11:09:37 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Indeed. Best I can tell he's spending his session getting his head clear again.
(11:09:51 PM) ventricularPipefitter: I need to check in on him again.
(11:11:54 PM) unseeingAugur: And of course, Cole and Violet just happened to be playing least-in-sight at the time. No one can blame you for what happened, really.
(11:13:28 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Violet's on a -weird- time-sync.
(11:13:50 PM) unseeingAugur: I don't blame her. She has a whole session, and the servers, to maintain.
(11:14:06 PM) ventricularPipefitter: It's a full-time job, yes.
(11:14:15 PM) unseeingAugur: Not to mention dealing with loneliness. Were there at least carapaces and consorts, or was it totally empty save her?
(11:16:25 PM) ventricularPipefitter: No consorts in a traditional void session bubble.
(11:16:45 PM) unseeingAugur: Carapaces, though?
(11:17:03 PM) unseeingAugur: Is there /anybody/ for her to interact with, or is she completely off on her own?
(11:17:28 PM) unseeingAugur: ... I'm getting side-tracked.
(11:18:05 PM) ***ventricularPipefitter PMs "Abel" ( She's alone, yes, save loops of herself, or when she's online to talk with us -- which is in private more often than the public chat.  I don't now how she does it. I'd go /mad/. )
(11:18:31 PM) ***ventricularPipefitter PMs "Abel" ( Don't know, pardonnez-moi. )
(11:19:50 PM) unseeingAugur: So. Adam. Of all that I've said, what have you gathered from it?
(11:20:45 PM) tenaciousTheseus: That Ock and Maria have a reason behind feeling alienated and angry
(11:20:58 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And that we should work to prevent that from happening again
(11:22:03 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Mmn, yes.
(11:22:17 PM) tenaciousTheseus: But I can't help but feel some of this is their fault
(11:22:31 PM) unseeingAugur: Some of it is. No one in a fight is in the right.
(11:22:38 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Uh-huh. And some of it's my fault, and some of it's your fault, and some of it's OP's and MusDec's faults....
(11:22:38 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Sigh
(11:22:54 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Taking a page out of Aelf's book here: I don't care who's responsible.
(11:22:58 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Just that it's made *right*
(11:24:14 PM) unseeingAugur: My point is? People have done wrong by them /beforehand/ and it shouldn't and can't be ignored just because they instigated this. We'll solve this and then try to figure out who needs to make amends for what, or get past what /biases/, for them to be able to come into the chat without feeling like they're going to have to fight.
(11:26:05 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Because it's a place for the better with both of them in it.
(11:26:45 PM) ventricularPipefitter: When we're all on good behavior or reasonably-not-awful-such. Which is what happens when nobody's being /antagonized/.
(11:28:56 PM) unseeingAugur: Do you think we're completely off-base here?
(11:29:16 PM) tenaciousTheseus: No
(11:30:08 PM) unseeingAugur: You want to elaborate on that syllable at all? I'm kind of incapable of judging tone.
(11:30:49 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Maybe I'm just judging people by my standards, which isn't fair, but
(11:31:07 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Throwing a hissy fit seems to not be something we should be justifying
(11:31:28 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Again, I'm mainly using myself as a reference point
(11:31:40 PM) tenaciousTheseus: And I know I have a big "Past is the past" thing
(11:32:15 PM) unseeingAugur: Okay. If I came in and started shouting at Toni for expecting apology cookies? What would you do?
(11:32:39 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I would have gotten pissed off at you
(11:33:15 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Or
(11:33:20 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Fuck, I don't know
(11:35:28 PM) unseeingAugur: That would be another hissy fit.
(11:36:06 PM) unseeingAugur: But you'd probably justify it, seeing as I'm blind. Even though blind people /can/ cook, and become excellent chefs, it's just outside of my skillset.
(11:36:42 PM) ventricularPipefitter: You're a damn fine musician instead.
(11:36:47 PM) ventricularPipefitter: And a sharp dresser.
(11:37:10 PM) unseeingAugur: But I stabbed or sliced myself open seventeen times trying to find a rolling pin.
(11:38:28 PM) unseeingAugur: Meh, I'll leave the cooking to Mike and Echo.
(11:39:35 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Fair enough.
(11:41:30 PM) unseeingAugur: By the way. Do you guys know what to do when broken toes heal wrong?
(11:41:44 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Break them again, set them right
(11:41:50 PM) unseeingAugur: Yay.
(11:41:59 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Yup
(11:42:02 PM) tenaciousTheseus: Fun, fun, fun
(11:42:15 PM) unseeingAugur: Stupid fuckin' rolling pin.
(11:44:43 PM) ventricularPipefitter: My sympathies, I dropped a dutch oven on my foot the other day when 'Cho goosed me.
(11:46:24 PM) unseeingAugur: Ouch.
(11:47:01 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Eh, I'm made of tough stuff.
(11:58:59 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Are we done here, then?
(11:59:35 PM) tenaciousTheseus: I assume so
(11:59:37 PM) ventricularPipefitter: If so, I'd like to put in a final note.
(11:59:39 PM) unseeingAugur: Yeah, pretty much, I think. I hope I didn't step too much on any toes?
(11:59:44 PM) ventricularPipefitter: Haha, no.
(9/25/2012 12:00:32 AM) ventricularPipefitter: For all that you've been clever enough to put facts together and make suppositions about amaranthineSwell's background,
(12:00:44 AM) ventricularPipefitter: Respect his desire for discretion.
(12:10:23 AM) Zuki: Adam, can you do that?
(12:13:45 AM) tenaciousTheseus: Yeah, I can do that
(12:15:48 AM) tenaciousTheseus: I wasn't really planning on doing some big reveal
(12:15:54 AM) tenaciousTheseus: Or any reveal
(12:16:11 AM) unseeingAugur: Good to hear.
(12:16:43 AM) ventricularPipefitter: *Good*
(12:16:48 AM) ventricularPipefitter: I'd want to gut you if you did.
(12:18:06 AM) unseeingAugur: We get it, you still care about him very much even if you're not speaking right now. Don't worry, we're not going to make speculations in public about what we think is going on with him.
(12:18:42 AM) ventricularPipefitter: 'Preciated.
(12:19:30 AM) ventricularPipefitter: We're good, then.
(12:19:37 AM) tenaciousTheseus: Mmhm
(12:20:04 AM) unseeingAugur: Ross? You're too fucking adorable over him to leave things like this. Try your best to patch things up, okay?
(12:22:25 AM) ventricularPipefitter: ...adorable what
(12:22:33 AM) tenaciousTheseus: Snrk
(12:24:15 AM) ventricularPipefitter: Oh shut up Tens.
(12:24:29 AM) specificNihilism: ((Is he blushing?))
(12:24:32 AM) specificNihilism: ((he's totally blushing))
(12:24:52 AM) ventricularPipefitter: (( He's /confused/. How is auspistice adorable? ))
(12:25:04 AM) unseeingAugur: Absolutely adorable.
(12:25:25 AM) ventricularPipefitter: You are as bad as Cyma when this whole thing started.
(12:26:43 AM) unseeingAugur: Hey, I'm not the one who just laid a conditional threat down to protect his cloverleaf.
(12:26:43 AM) ventricularPipefitter: Just go now Adam before I lose all dignity in front of the humans.
(12:27:07 AM) ventricularPipefitter: I said I'd -want- to. Not that I would. Just how I'd feel.
(12:27:18 AM) tenaciousTheseus: Ahaha, okay
(12:27:24 AM) ***tenaciousTheseus ceased responding to the memo
(12:27:35 AM) unseeingAugur: Still adorable!
(12:27:42 AM) ***unseeingAugur has disconnected from the memo
(12:28:24 AM) ventricularPipefitter: Fucking auspistice how does it work.
(12:28:35 AM) ventricularPipefitter: [>Ross: Go back to work on your apology letter]
(12:28:41 AM) ***ventricularPipefitter has disconnected from the memo