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Me arguing with lenga on how SHIT ZTD is, and how her interpretation sucks.

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Aug 9th, 2020
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  1. I still believe uchi had TWD style in mind when original planning out ztd.
  2.  
  3. Lenga06/22/2018
  4. Oh hai thar
  5. [11:08 PM]
  6. You're not that same guy who made the post are you. If so sorry I called you a dumbass, I really getot carried away
  7.  
  8. matlingo06/22/2018
  9. It’s okay. I just think that style hurt the game.... 3D telltale animation is not cheap. You could do the q twist in text form( like 999) and it would have been fine(edited)
  10.  
  11. Lenga06/22/2018
  12. I like the animation though, the huge range of character expressions, the way they hold each other. But that's just me
  13.  
  14. matlingo06/22/2018
  15. (Q: Is there anything else you'd like say? A: Since in overseas countries my works - 999, Virtue's Last Reward - have been much appreciated, there's just one thing I want to say: have great expectations for my next work. Q: When will it be out? A: It comes out after your book. Q: Oh! Is there any hint you can give? A: <laughs> I think it will be out on Playstation4. -the untold history of japanese game developers-2013) that was back before the game got canceled.
  16. [11:14 PM]
  17. Didn’t he cite the walking dead as a favorite back in GDC 2012? Perhaps spike chunsoft was thinking this was gonna bomb hard had he gave him the budget to just do the game as a ps4 exclusive....
  18.  
  19. Lenga06/22/2018
  20. But he also made statements about using the same assets and engine for VLR and ZTD
  21.  
  22. matlingo06/22/2018
  23. For the DS.
  24. [11:15 PM]
  25. Like 999
  26.  
  27. Lenga06/22/2018
  28. I just refuse to believe that TWD style was the reason the game initially got refused. But it's really not that important, we're in the timeline where it got made
  29.  
  30. matlingo06/22/2018
  31. Why?
  32.  
  33. Lenga06/22/2018
  34. Because it depicts Uchikoshi as uncompromising...
  35. [11:18 PM]
  36. When him collaborating was a big good point of ZTD. I love the work of the subwriters
  37.  
  38. matlingo06/22/2018
  39. Well whatever the case I still believe it ultimately hurt the game in the end,seeing how they had to make an entirely new engine + cram that into a 3ds. And that takes valuable time and money off the project as apposed to just doing it as a visual novel (witch ztd is not. Admit it)
  40.  
  41. Lenga06/22/2018
  42. I mean, cramming it into 3DS definitely did hurt the project but he didn't really have the option to not do that from what I understand
  43. [11:20 PM]
  44. Like he couldn't just keep VLR as a DS game either, right.
  45.  
  46. matlingo06/22/2018
  47. Not to do it on the 3ds, or not do Telltale style?
  48.  
  49. Lenga06/22/2018
  50. Former
  51. [11:22 PM]
  52. That is, cramming a telltale style game onto the 3DS was definitely a challenge, but it seems he can't choose the platform given he was forced to rework VLR onto the 3dS
  53.  
  54. matlingo06/22/2018
  55. Well, you shouldn’t go for that style if the platform is going to hurt it in the end! It’s ambitious in the way jumping of a bridge and being 100% confident you’ll be a-ok!
  56.  
  57. Lenga06/22/2018
  58. Anyway like what are we supposed to do now, buy stock in Spoke Chunsoft so they have more budget?
  59.  
  60. matlingo06/22/2018
  61. Ask uchi for a ztd faq. It’s been 2-3 years.
  62.  
  63. Lenga06/22/2018
  64. You saw he said recently there wouldn't be one, right?
  65.  
  66. matlingo06/22/2018
  67. Where?
  68.  
  69. Lenga06/22/2018
  70. Imgur
  71. Seems like we aren't getting a Q&A for ZTD after all
  72.  
  73. [11:26 PM]
  74. That said
  75. [11:26 PM]
  76. https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroEscape/comments/870ck1/compilation_of_uchikoshis_ze_answers_series/
  77. reddit
  78. r/ZeroEscape - Compilation of Uchikoshi's ZE Answers [Series spoilers]
  79. 61 votes and 8 so far on reddit
  80.  
  81.  
  82. matlingo06/22/2018
  83. Lemme guess, the tired “ITS AMBIGUOUS! YOU DECIDE!” Bull crap....
  84.  
  85. Lenga06/22/2018
  86. I mean, some, but specifically it's a link to Uchikoshi post ZTD tweets
  87.  
  88. matlingo06/22/2018
  89. There’s a difference between ambuigous, and lazy bullshit plot holes that ruin the entire franchise.....
  90.  
  91. Lenga06/22/2018
  92. OK but there's also a difference between a plot hole and stuff that just happens to not be what you wanted to happen
  93.  
  94. matlingo06/22/2018
  95. It like he ditched vlr entirely for this bleak “life is shit, the world is full of infinite timelines of horridness despair due to bad luck, your all gonna die!” If that is the case, then why am I playing in the first place when all I really accomplish is loads of gore, misery, and death, (that will happen anyway cause multiverse!) and ultimately in the true ending is sending out the characters on a wild goose chase after a even bigger world ending threat (That may not even exist in the first place!) for the rest of their lives!(edited)
  96.  
  97. Lenga06/22/2018
  98. OK well that was the exact opposite of what I took away from the game
  99. [11:37 PM]
  100. Like, first of all EVERY ZE game ends with "well fuck gotta keep chasing that bluebird" in some form
  101.  
  102. matlingo06/22/2018
  103. Junpeis search for Akane after 999 was personal, not world ending (or maybe not).(edited)
  104.  
  105. Lenga06/22/2018
  106. But also VLR actually has a really sad ending. Yeah Sigma and Phi are gonna TRY to fix things but that's just in a new timeline, multiple timelines exist, Dio is still handcuffed after being a brainwashed slave all his life, Kyle is still literally trapped inside his father's machinations, Luna has no personal goals besides continuing to act as a nurse
  107.  
  108. matlingo06/22/2018
  109. There was hope in the true ending. “I will save the world!”
  110.  
  111. Lenga06/22/2018
  112. And ZTD just looked at all that and said hey wait you know raising kids to be slaves is really fucked up right? They deserve better, they deserve a second chance
  113. [11:41 PM]
  114. The point is that Sigma thought he was this altruistic god but he just couldn't actually walk in with his big arms and punch the problem like he thought he could
  115. [11:41 PM]
  116. Like he was so confident in his own righteousness, he locked Kyle in his room all day to prevent interference
  117. [11:42 PM]
  118. And finally Sigma has to face it that Delta is actually very similar to him in motives as well as genes
  119.  
  120. matlingo06/22/2018
  121. But does sigma actually realize this in Cqd end 2? Nope! they all go preaching they will fight for the future and it’s in your hands like it’s a kid show.
  122.  
  123. Lenga06/22/2018
  124. Well when Sigma realizes his methods were warped is mostly in D-end 2 where he litereally says he's a selfish bastard
  125. [11:45 PM]
  126. and then are confronted by Delta in Q-end 2
  127. [11:46 PM]
  128. What they realize in CQD-END 2 is more like, yes they can fight for the future. There are multiple timelines so you can do things besides the stable time loop
  129. [11:47 PM]
  130. The future in another timeline is a blank piece of paper, you can write whatever you want instead of copying the other sheet of paper
  131.  
  132. matlingo06/22/2018
  133. Tell that to uchikoshi then.... every game he has written involves a stable time loop of some sort.
  134.  
  135. Lenga06/22/2018
  136. He literally said In the first place, the theme of ZTD is also to encourage the players think for themselves about "What is right?"
  137. For another example about stable time loop as a sad condition someone is trapped in, see Akane injecting Junpei(edited)
  138. [11:50 PM]
  139. Sad music plays and also as a result she fails to learn from his realization Q is Zero II
  140.  
  141. matlingo06/22/2018
  142. Well, if everything so fucked up, no choice is the “right” choice (even though there are correct choices in the game to continue the plot) then why am I playing Then?
  143.  
  144. Lenga06/22/2018
  145. I never said no choice is the right choice, but I suppose you have a point insofar as you have to choose practically everything
  146. [11:54 PM]
  147. Which, first of all, that fucking applied to VLR as well
  148.  
  149. matlingo06/22/2018
  150. I only switched choices one I got a to be continued or a end in vlr........
  151.  
  152. Lenga06/22/2018
  153. Yeah but in the end you still betrayed a lot didn't you?
  154. [11:55 PM]
  155. Particularly Phi
  156. [11:55 PM]
  157. That part is so important, like I'll go on that tangent for a second
  158. [11:57 PM]
  159. Chronologically what happens is Sigma Betray Phi Ally, then they both go back in time but Sigma forgets, then Sigma Ally Phi Betray happens, then he realizes what he did
  160. Chronologically, Sigma committed the antagonist action of kidnappings etc, then got his memories overwritten by his younger self, and only later realized what bad things he did
  161. [11:59 PM]
  162. But then think of it like this. If you think of ZTD as a linear story. It's like times in your life where you felt trapped and miserable and ultimately there was no alternative but to endure the situation. Even if you survived, there was no magic wand where you had no memories of the trauma you survived in the first place. ZTD shows that even after you suffered like that, you can have a place in society where nice things still happen to you, you deserve love
  163. [11:59 PM]
  164. That's what I like about the only way for everyone to survive being the timeline where they won the coin toss
  165. June 23, 2018
  166.  
  167. Lenga06/23/2018
  168. You really just gotta get out of the institution... Ah, but I'm projecting a little too much, haha
  169. [12:01 AM]
  170. I mean VLR in particular says depressing things about the human condition. Everyone betrays each other except when they manage to sedate Dio. It's totally different from nobody pressing the button in the acid shower
  171.  
  172. matlingo06/23/2018
  173. But everyone still dies in the end (possibly)? Due to the terrorist
  174.  
  175. Lenga06/23/2018
  176. Mors certa hora incerta
  177.  
  178. matlingo06/23/2018
  179. I mean, their still gonna chase after this thing ( Witch may not exist) and their gonna waste their lives doing that. And it will be meaningless if it doesn’t exist
  180.  
  181. Lenga06/23/2018
  182. I find the word chase so funny because, like, the blue bird of happiness, you know?
  183. [12:05 AM]
  184. And they're not JUST wasting their lives doing that, they find time to walk on the beach
  185.  
  186. matlingo06/23/2018
  187. It feels like a cliffhanger for a game that will never come@
  188. June 25, 2018
  189.  
  190. matlingo06/25/2018
  191. Ztd should not have been a 3D telltale like “cinematic” game. It ate up your guys budget, and hurt the story in the process. The delta twist is possible in text form (3rd person like young Akane in 999). If this was the intened vision back in 2012, then that is too ambitious for its own good. Especially when time & budget +support for 3ds limit your potential.
  192. Why didn’t Diana tell young sigma the events of outbreak ending?
  193. How come C team remember the die roll when its in ANOTHER FUCKING TIMELINE and 2 MEMEROY ERASER DRUG?!
  194. Of course Mira has fucking radical 6 on her and of giving course she was going to spread it the moment sigma bombed his arms off.... Of course the Akane and Junpei end up in the AB timeline thanks to the transporter,Of course the babies become delta and phi due to the transporter, Cause BOOTSTRAP PARADOX!!!!!
  195. of course that Carlos and Diana also happens to be Espers... really? I can see Carlos with Maria and the firefighter thing but Mira, a nurse? Why? Only relaxant to the plot...
  196. like every thing in this game is so contrived..... it’s like Uchi is just marking things up as he goes along
  197. [4:36 AM]
  198. Really, Mind hack? This does mean the characters don’t really have free will and they are free from the responsibility from the decisions....
  199. If delta really controlled the snail...(one of the files implied mind hackable parasaites could infext it (god the pseudoscience sounds like ancient aliens when spoken out loud.....) why?
  200. Show don’t tell... your in a cinematic medium, don’t make the character’s talk on and on like snooty gits... it irritates the player and gets on their nerves..... they talk like their in a visual novel (witch ZTD IS NOT, I’m sorry, just want to get that out there) the pseudoscience this time, half of it is recycled from vlr, and the other half of it comes right the fuck out of nowhere and could be directly lifted from the worst of the history channel’s “documentaries”. And when the characters babble on about their “dark and deep pasts” it’s cliche. “My sister is in a coma” “I have a abusive boyfriend(How the fuck sigma know about that???)/father” it makes me want to strangle them.... Mira is a poor mans junko, the only reason she is there is to be the dangourus thing that makes them shift (Even though they spent 2 games already making them perfect their Shifting)
  201. God they butchers Akane... one munite she is a more realistic June, the next a crazy Yandere for Junepei, the next a well intentioned extremist, MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MIND..... junepei is just a whiny bitchy Elmo who claims “he has seen fucked up shit and lost his faith in humanity wah wah 999 ptsd wah” good god these characters are unrecognizable from their previous counter parts.... I fucking laughed when he proposed to akane, it was so cheesy, out of place, and unrealistic and out of character
  202. [4:37 AM]
  203. she disappears for over a year, and once you see her again.... you proposer to her!!!!! WTF SHE IS ZERO THE FIRST GOD DAMMIT SHE MADE YOU WITNESS THE 9th MAN EXPLODE AND MANY OTHER HORRORS IN 999 AND FUCKING USED YOU TO SAVE HER YOUNG SELF FROM BEING BURNED ALIVE,AT LEAST TALK FIRST THAN ANYTHING!!! Jesus Christ i was. Expecting dammit Janet from RHPS to play any second during that scene!!!!)
  204. Oh the transporter.... while I will admit that delta did not say it was aliens who made it.... come on it’s a divicce that makes a clone of you and sends you to another timeline, it was discovered in Egypt in the 1800 (meaning society wasn’t (and arguably still isint)really technologically avandced for it to be man made)and from the symbols on the machine Implies it been around since ANCHIENT EGYPTIAN TIMES(Meaning the only possible expiation is it was the product of a advaced civilization clearly not our own AKA ALIENS AKA STUIPID!!!)
  205. [4:37 AM]
  206. Even if you ingore it’s orgin you have to admit it’s a plot device to move the characters around to different timelines if and when needed.
  207. It needed to be Vlrs length. 40 hours. It feels like a rough draft of the story and not the actual thing. It feels to cheap and rushed to actually be worth $40. The reason I believe it’s like this? The poor decision of the style.... of you are not going to do anything with it, if you are going to wasted the budget by building a new engine from scratch, and hurt the game with it, WHY DO IT AT ALL?
  208. The pacing is off the wall. It’s plot, or exposition, like it’s a shitty history channel series.... the dialogue and writing is horrible, compared to the other games. The decisions do not mean jack squat. One minute a character is dead, or you can redo the choice, going somewhere worse, or pop another fragment in and boom, alive with no questions asked. The animation is utterly terrible. They look like terrible cgi animation mannequins. Their movement is stiff and uncanny. They look horrible. It feels like a gore fest, with its exploitative death sometimes... and when carlos pretend raped akane, I face palmed. It feels like “distancing from vlr” means being as edgy and dark and violent as possible. We’ve gone from “inspired by saw”to saw, period. Where’s the left clone subplot? Where’s ice 9 and the mummy? It feels like it dumped vlr and evreything good about the franchise with it.
  209. [4:41 AM]
  210. And most importantly; you’ve got a 60 yeah old man in a 22-year old body with decades worth of scientific experience, and young physict genius, another genius who saved her 9 year old self from the incinerator and a detective....HOW IN THEY BLODDY HELL DID THEY NOT FIND DELTA SUSPICIOUS WHILE LIVIG WITH HIM AT DCOM FOR A WEEK???!
  211.  
  212. matlingo06/25/2018
  213. ^
  214.  
  215. Lenga06/25/2018
  216. Dude that's a lot of text
  217. [7:28 PM]
  218. I'm not saying I haven't read it
  219. [7:28 PM]
  220. But I will need some time to think it all over
  221. June 28, 2018
  222.  
  223. matlingo06/28/2018
  224.  
  225. [1:57 PM]
  226. https://www.polygon.com/2015/3/10/8176721/danganronpa-distrust-too-gruesome
  227. Polygon
  228. The original Danganronpa, Distrust, was too gruesome even for its ...
  229. Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc is a tough game to classify. It's about murder and despair, but with a black comedy twist and cheerful pop art elements that keep things from getting too heavy.
  230.  
  231. B...
  232.  
  233.  
  234. Lenga06/28/2018
  235. Okay so first of all you say "show don't tell" but then you make comments like "Mira is a poor man's Junko" that show a really flagrant misunderstanding of her entire character, motives, role in the plot
  236. [2:02 PM]
  237. I'm here like organizing all your statements to address them one by one please be aware there are a lot and I presume you wanted me to address all of them
  238. [2:03 PM]
  239. Everyone has a dark past in 999 and VLR too (except the protagonists to a certain extent)
  240. [2:03 PM]
  241. Sigma literally explained that the post-D-end 1 version of Diana told him about her ex-boyfriend
  242. [2:04 PM]
  243. Maybe Diana just felt super fucking ashamed about what she had done? This is a recurring theme in her character
  244. [2:05 PM]
  245. How is Carlos and Diana being espers contrived? Are you saying it's contrived for all the kids in the First Nonary Game to be espers then? That's such fucking bullshit, Delta obviously selected them with advanced knowledge, if "he knew the future so he did it that way" isn't good enough for you (even though every Zero did it that way) then maybe it was through another Ganzfeld experiment or something
  246. [2:06 PM]
  247. "Junpei proposing to Akane is out of character" HE STALKED HER FOR 45 YEARS...
  248. [2:07 PM]
  249. The entire point is that the Nonary Game Ambidex Edition was a worse act than the Second Nonary Game, for example since the child Quark was endangered, and he could forgive her for the Second Nonary Game but not for the Nonary Game Ambidex Edition, and that's what Akane was working so hard all along to avoid, find a way to play through the Decision Game that would allow her to not perpetrate the Nonary Game Ambidex Edition at all
  250. [2:07 PM]
  251. This is pretty much the exact sentiment she expresses to Kyle, that she wanted to give her life to return the favor to Junpei who saved her life
  252. [2:10 PM]
  253. Tenmyouji left behind everyone in Luna Game Over 1 just to get Quark out, he knew he would die in the process, he had no reason to believe the rest of them would be freed (the Answers describe him betraying Sigma in Tenmyouji ending as an act of punishment)
  254. [2:11 PM]
  255. And he said that before Quark he was even more fixated on only Akane as important
  256. [2:11 PM]
  257. So "getting everyone killed to let just Akane survive" is clearly how he would have acted back then?
  258. [2:12 PM]
  259. Likewise Akane going on and on about how she'd love to marry Junpei (SHE LITERALLY SAYS EXACTLY THIS TO KYLE, AND UCHIKOSHI SAYS IN THE ANSWERS OF COURSE IT'S THE TRUTH) and being very determined to kill the people who killed her in another history... she is a woman who does what she must to accomplish her goals so of course she endangered Junpei when it was necessary but GIVEN that it was NOT directly entirely necessary for Junpei to be harmed, why the fuck WOULDN'T she try to murder whoever murdered Junpei? She loves revenge and loves Junpei this is just the most basic characterization arithmeti
  260.  
  261. Lenga06/28/2018
  262. "Where's ice 9 and the mummy?" Everything written about Alice is all there is to her story.
  263. [2:25 PM]
  264. I just don't see what's so bad about an instantaneous cloning device because VLR literally established cloning and instantaneous object copying, it's the logical conclusion of those two overlaps
  265. [2:27 PM]
  266. I just really don't get where you're coming from. The 3D animation is used plenty for characters to hold each other in their arms, push each other out of the way, you can't just say they don't do anything with it. then you say the characters talk too much but also the game is too short. "the decisions don't mean anything because you can redo the choice" THIS APPLIED TO VLR 100%... THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THEY MADE YOU WADE THROUGH HOURS OF PUZZLES AND RULE EXPLANATIONS FIRST...
  267. http://deathdesu.tumblr.com/post/172269704219/how-q-team-demonstrates-the-significance
  268. Tumblr
  269. D-E-A-T-H?
  270. How Q-Team demonstrates the significance of ‘decisions’
  271. I’d like to share a study on the characters of Q-Team. More than the other teams, there is so much story that only exists off screen. I believe this gives the appearance of gaps in characterization...
  272.  
  273. [9:12 PM]
  274. Just read this thing my friend wrote like you are just totally off base on what Mira is trying to do let alone why
  275. Mira only Learnt at the true end.... and one theory is the only reason that happens is because she travels through the field when she shift to CQD end 2
  276. [9:39 PM]
  277. We never see her actually decolop and realize while Shaun was talking to them in the force quit fragment.
  278.  
  279. Lenga06/28/2018
  280. Okay but Mira didn't suddenly learn at the true end. She learned as a result of everything else that happened over the course of the game. She literally says in prison that she has now had second thoughts after what happened in Q-end 1
  281. [9:40 PM]
  282. There are lots of moments. Like that she's genuinely surprised Eric was able to discover the secret passage to the study
  283. [9:40 PM]
  284. If she were just here like "okay we have more important things to worry about than trying to get out of this murderprison. I'm going to just talk about my feelings" that would totally kill the momentum
  285. [9:41 PM]
  286. when the characters were all finally working together, something that they'd just now realized was possible
  287.  
  288. matlingo06/28/2018
  289. "okay we have more important things to worry about than trying to get out of this murderprison. I'm going to just talk about my feelings" That’s what they fucking do when their not actually trying to get out of this murderprision. All they do is talk talk talk.
  290. Not in the force quit segments though????
  291. [9:43 PM]
  292. Like, it makes sense to have all this emotional development in some other segments when they'd tried the door and failed, but then to not have introspection as much once they finally discovered some passwords
  293.  
  294. matlingo06/28/2018
  295. Yeah...but once they do the force quit thing and delta shows up, they still talk before he shoots himself and makes them play the final decision.
  296.  
  297. Lenga06/28/2018
  298. That conversation is still 90% focused on Delta
  299. [9:46 PM]
  300. What, do you want Junpei to turn around right that second and say "BTW we're still engaged in my book, Kanny"
  301.  
  302. matlingo06/28/2018
  303. No, but Vlr did it better in it’s true ending... their are exposition, but it’s MAJOR expostion that is vital to the game.
  304. [9:49 PM]
  305. Here it’s just a 5 minute “I’m delta, here are my vague motives, their COMPLEX I killed gab, final decision time bitch...”(edited)
  306. [9:52 PM]
  307. It’s the pacing that gets to me....it’s uneven in a way, that it’s thinks and talks like a book,but paced like a tv show. Witch is pretensions and preachy and boring when spoken out loud....(same with the original ending of evangellion and the matrix sequels)
  308. [9:53 PM]
  309. Fine when it’s at your own pace.... but in a 25 hour game with no time to waste... it feels like a eternity with the monologues... and yet there’s actually a few sentences to it....
  310. [9:55 PM]
  311. When they start blabbing about their backsiories... there’s no “black wall” of text to warn you where going into monoluhe mode... it feels like your at a class.
  312.  
  313. Lenga06/28/2018
  314. Has anyone ever told you about their backstory? Like in real life? Has this ever happened to you?
  315.  
  316. matlingo06/28/2018
  317. Not just the backstories. The scientific jargon too.... and second it’s a video game/visual style this time around. At least flashback or something
  318.  
  319. Lenga06/28/2018
  320. What's your opinion on when Santa had that kind of scene?
  321.  
  322. matlingo06/28/2018
  323. 1 It was In text form 2 it was not voice acted
  324.  
  325. Lenga06/28/2018
  326. Like, if you think a video game about characters interacting and deepening their relationships shouldn't have a moment when you sincerely have to listen to people talking about their backstories for a good few minutes at a time, I really don't know what to tell you.
  327. [10:00 PM]
  328. Okay well it was voice acted in the TNG port
  329. [10:00 PM]
  330. Are you... are you telling me in all seriousness that you think having the backstories non voice acted in VLR was like... actively better than the alternative... I really don't understand this point of view
  331.  
  332. matlingo06/28/2018
  333. Fuck no! It’s okay once in a while, but when your doing it all the fucking time, in a visual medium, you expect something more, ya know? Not still images and stuff.
  334.  
  335. Lenga06/28/2018
  336. not still images and stuff
  337. doesn't like ZTD being full motion video animated
  338.  
  339. matlingo06/28/2018
  340. I’m saying is you should animate the backstories at least....
  341.  
  342. Lenga06/28/2018
  343. Does that.................. not apply to Santa's backstory?
  344. [10:03 PM]
  345. like, the backstories if anything are more colorful than the VLR ones because they have additional voice actors for the side characters
  346. [10:04 PM]
  347. It develops them more and shows just how important those attachments to the surrounding world are
  348. [10:04 PM]
  349. Would it be even better if they were animated? Yeah probably but drawing entire additional character models in the FMV style probably would have been prohibitively difficult
  350. [10:04 PM]
  351. just like it was in VLR
  352.  
  353. matlingo06/28/2018
  354. My point is, they talk a lot.... it’s a visual medium do something with it. Otherwise, make it a visual novel. It will save time and money
  355. [10:06 PM]
  356. I preferred vlr styles to This
  357.  
  358. Lenga06/28/2018
  359. I mean if you don't want to listen to the characters talk don't get into a story-based game period, I really don't understand your problem here
  360.  
  361. matlingo06/28/2018
  362. .....let me put it this way...when it comes to show don’t tell....danganronpa 3 did it better...
  363.  
  364. Lenga06/28/2018
  365. ...................................................................................................okay...
  366.  
  367. matlingo06/28/2018
  368. What, you also though it was shit? I mean it is shit
  369. [10:09 PM]
  370. But the good saying goes, show don’t tell....
  371. [10:10 PM]
  372. Characters babble about things when their not doing something:
  373. The pseudoscience (witch has a 50/50 chance of being Rehashed from vlr or nonsensical.)
  374. And/or
  375. Long exposition dumps about themselves.
  376. Thing is, they do it like they think their in a VN with long bits of diolaouge that in a ONLY visual medium, makes you wanna slap them So hard.... they TELL you delta had complex motives, without showing you. they TELL you Carlos was “heroic” and his ill sister(who btw can “SHIFT” her illness is directly related to that), But his personality is a genric "SPIKE CHUNSOFT TRADEMARK Vannilia protagist "
  377. They TELL you about Diana’s abusive husband and the reason she signed up for dcom, but there’se no evidence outside of sigma’s exposition and the fact that she mentions Rebecca sometimes.
  378.  
  379. Lenga06/28/2018
  380. okay then why does Diana shoot herself after the live bullet hits Sigma?
  381. [10:10 PM]
  382. Does that strike you as something a normal person with no history of abuse would do?
  383. [10:12 PM]
  384. Also Delta's complex motives like, first of all he explains them pretty clearly and they're not at all vague, but if you think they needed to be demonstrated at a separate point, just look at Dio? He was clearly set up to fail, it wasn't an efficient technique at all, he was clearly just brainwashed to produce the exact erratic behavior (sometimes self-preserving stabbing, sometimes holy suicide bombing) that would maximize the benefit for the AB Project in a manner very similar to the stress of the decision game
  385.  
  386. Lenga06/28/2018
  387. I just feel like there's plenty of things the game shows in a more subtle manner. for example consider in general the C team executed -> biolab -> manufacturing timeline Mira hasn't murdered anybody in the decision game but then she gets bombed to hell anyway and that's where she's coming from when she gives Phi her "present".
  388. July 2, 2018
  389.  
  390. matlingo07/02/2018
  391. Zero time dilemma is a fucking travesty thanks to the broken ass fragment system....say what you want for VLR, each route had a clear beggining middle and end for each of its characters, witht he game being sigmas unfortante "Coming of age" in his shifting abilites via the story locks. (witch by the way, were more than ZTD admititley) yes, choices really dont matter for VLR, as it really was a fancy way of choosing your branch of the storyline. (and even then, certian routes had to be played in order to fufuill the story locks.) the reason for that is to control the indrudiction of fantastical elements into the story until the final reveal so your used to it at this point (+the foreshadowing) so it doesint feel contrived like it does in ztd. sigma wa a victum of the prophecy of the ab project (thrown into a post apocolptic future you dont want after playing deadly game, only way out is to waste 45 years of your life to travel back and ultimaley prevent said apocaplse in the first place.) thanks to ZTD, vlr is just a simple side story/filler whos only relavance is explaing away deltas dad. (Admit it, they played off sigma like a twist) THanks to the floating fragment structure, you are constatly thrown betetween timelines like its no tommorw thanks to a fucking RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR. the "ending" are not really endings at all,, choice does not detimine witch path you follow so its pretty much useless....
  392.  
  393. Lenga07/02/2018
  394. Oh yeah because the magenta/yellow/cyan choice wasn't at all arbitrary
  395.  
  396. matlingo07/02/2018
  397. yeah, but unlike in vlr, you couldit just unlock all the fragments at once by just doing it 3 times....
  398.  
  399. Lenga07/02/2018
  400. The clear beginning middle and end are totally available by the time you're done with ZTD
  401. July 3, 2018
  402.  
  403. matlingo07/03/2018
  404. ZTD on its own, does not have a proper begging middle and end like the previous games....
  405. [12:01 AM]
  406. vlr has, even though its not clearly ovious to the player, same with 999.
  407. [12:02 AM]
  408. you can get to the trasporter introduction in like 5 munites if you are ulucky, and really, it does not feel earned at ALL.
  409. [12:02 AM]
  410. Nothing in this game feels earned.....
  411. [12:03 AM]
  412. there is forshadowing, yes, but thanks to the random number genarator, you might not catch on to it.
  413.  
  414. Lenga07/03/2018
  415. Okay but if you take a high-level view it's there
  416. [12:05 AM]
  417. What is your endgame here, my man?
  418. [12:05 AM]
  419. Like, you have to be aware by now that I saw all these parallels and stuff in ZTD that I thought were interesting. Do you think by sending me these comments, I'm going to suddenly forget they're there?
  420.  
  421. matlingo07/03/2018
  422. tomato, tomato, you like ztd, i hate it. Controversy at its finest. i know, i dont wanna change your opion, but to the die hard fan that waited 5 whole years for this game, only to be told the others game's were pointless at best, that beloved characters have been butchered beyond belief, and clever writing has gone away to ass-pull reveals that stretch the boundaries of suspension of disbelief (even for this series) and be given a middle finger at the very end? that is fucking heart breaking. Say what you want about dangan3, it at least did a better job at acknowledging the other game in the franchise EXIST instead of trying to pander to new players by toning down or retconing the other games to the point that they really did not matter in the grand scheme of things....
  423.  
  424. Lenga07/03/2018
  425. I mean, to me it's the other way around that you missed the point of the earlier games in the series if you didn't think Junpei and Akane should get married or that Sigma was a perpetrator as well as a victim
  426. [12:16 AM]
  427. Like, how do you think that ZTD reduces the purposefulness of VLR? Luna and Dio and Quark were always going to have no purpose, Alice and Clover also, the only remotely plausible argument is Kyle
  428. [12:16 AM]
  429. The entire point was that the nonary game ambidex edition was too cruel and didn't deserve to get results
  430.  
  431. matlingo07/03/2018
  432. too cruel? compared to the decision game, its a fucking saint. yes, they played for their lives, but most of the time, the deaths tame compared to the shit delta pulls on their asses.....
  433.  
  434. Lenga07/03/2018
  435. I didn't say that it was less cruel than the decision game
  436. [12:19 AM]
  437. or more...
  438.  
  439. matlingo07/03/2018
  440. you did.
  441.  
  442. Lenga07/03/2018
  443. obviously the decision game is the cruelest of all.
  444. [12:19 AM]
  445. Also the deaths are tame primarily because Uchikoshi got censored lol
  446. [12:20 AM]
  447. But like, the entire point is that Nonary Game Ambidex Edition is in a class of cruelty above the Second Nonary Game.
  448. [12:20 AM]
  449. This is really basic straightforward information.
  450. [12:20 AM]
  451. And why was it necessary for Sigma and Phi to shift? Just so Sigma could personally walk in with his big arms and try to punch everything. and personally save Diana, the wife he couldn't cope with losing. but these efforts failed and he lost his arms
  452. matlingo
  453. started a call that lasted a few seconds.
  454. 07/03/2018
  455.  
  456. Lenga07/03/2018
  457. He never even trusted Phi to make her own decisions (e.g. shutting the door behind her in Luna ending)
  458. [12:25 AM]
  459. Does Junpei realize Akane risked his life and the lives of 6 others (not including her own) by setting up the 2nd Nonary game? Or does he simply not care and loves her despite her selfishness?
  460.  
  461. When he realized the truth, Junpei understood everything. That's why, in the game, we made sure that despite it all being completely planned out, he still had to save her. I suppose you can call it selfishness, but if Junpei didn't save her then a 12 year-old girl would die... Junpei did have strong feelings for her, yes, but that wouldn't really matter. Even if it were just some stranger, Junpei would have saved her regardless. No matter how he might have been tricked, or put in danger, or murdered in an alternative history, Junpei would have done the same thing.
  462.  
  463. So like, we established that the Second Nonary Game itself didn't bother Junpei
  464.  
  465. matlingo07/03/2018
  466. "And why was it necessary for Sigma and Phi to shift?" hello...., the enitre fucking point of acsissing the field ids to put yourself is some kind of danger to begin with.... https://youtu.be/Rewj2D-mqYo?t=9m55s 9:55-13:51
  467. YouTube
  468. Virtue's Last Reward (100% Playthrough) : Part 128 - Changing The Past
  469. Part 128 of my 100% playthrough of Virtue's Last Reward. Playlist of the playthrough : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku9qJNUwDYQ&list=PLOjlX2JnE0k6uOgWk2i-...
  470.  
  471.  
  472. Lenga07/03/2018
  473. No, I don't mean "why was the danger required for Sigma and Phi to shift". it's obviously true that Sigma and Phi cultivated their abilities as a result of the danger and that the Nonary Game Ambidex Edition was built around that
  474. [12:28 AM]
  475. I mean, "why was it important for them to become shifters in the first place"
  476. [12:28 AM]
  477. I mean, yes, in the moment of End or Beginning Sigma talks a big game about saving the world... but we already knew in VLR that all he DID was work on his own self-image, his own mouthpiece in the form of Lagomorph, Kyle LITERALLY a copy of himself, Luna LITERALLY an even more obedient devoted version of his wife once she died... it's all just very self-aggrandizing
  478. [12:28 AM]
  479. There's no critical thought about the motives or tactics of the enemy
  480.  
  481. matlingo07/03/2018
  482. of course he fucking did that....
  483.  
  484. Lenga07/03/2018
  485. Why? Akane and Aoi didn't do it
  486. [12:30 AM]
  487. Kyle literally says Sigma's parenting was so hurtful that it made him cry and seriously consider moving out, Luna says the loneliness made her practically feel torn in half
  488.  
  489. matlingo07/03/2018
  490. 45 years. he spent 45 years. he had all the fucking time in the world to do such thing. its very likey he did that...after all. HE WAS TRYING TO AVERT THE DEATHS OF 6 BILLION PEPOLE! Of course he woulding have time to... you know what? your opions are not fact in the slighest. I agree with sigmas and akane methods. i would not shoot them if given the choice. i just feel cheated knowing that ultimately, they were just pawns.
  491. [12:36 AM]
  492. who knows? maybe the "religous finatic" (That may or may not exist) is another well intentioned extremist thats trying to err.... defeat the Litch (from adventure time) from destroying the multiverse? Who knows....(edited)
  493.  
  494. Lenga07/03/2018
  495. I'm just saying, in VLR Sigma runs into every situation guns blazing and there's no indication that he invested significant time in non-shifting research during those 45 years. In ZTD Sigma runs into every situation guns blazing and demonstrates a lack of non-shifting research during those 45 years. Where's the problem
  496.  
  497. matlingo07/03/2018
  498. its a video game. its clear your seeing a subjective viewpoint. thats fine.... just know that as long as uchikoshi debunks/confirm it, its just as likley that say, the theory from above....
  499.  
  500. Lenga07/03/2018
  501. Like, it's all well and good for different people to have different interpretations
  502. [12:41 AM]
  503. I mean, I don't even necessarily say "the methods of the nonary game ambidex edition were too cruel" as an objective fact. Uchikoshi has said point blank "if Akane is good to you, she is good inside of you. If Akane is evil to you, she is evil inside of you." (paraphrase)
  504.  
  505. matlingo07/03/2018
  506. where did he say that...
  507.  
  508. Lenga07/03/2018
  509. https://twitter.com/chibitalex/status/607965848267952128
  510.  
  511. alex (•̀o•́)/) (@chibitalex)
  512. @Uchikoshi_Eng do you consider akane to be evil??
  513.  
  514. Twitter
  515. [12:43 AM]
  516. (click the "more replies")
  517.  
  518. matlingo07/03/2018
  519. yeah yeah... i see that.... Thinking about it, its like the lost ending (or any controversial series finale...) some like it, some hate it..... it depends on your taste, really....
  520. Do you hate vlr? You seem to like ztd for disregarding the entire point of vlr and the Ab project in general....
  521.  
  522. Lenga07/31/2018
  523. No. I don't hate VLR, but I hate a very widely held interpretation of VLR
  524. [9:04 PM]
  525. Like, ZTD reinforces the point of VLR to me - Sigma is a stupid jackass who treats women, his sentient robot creation, and his clone son all like objects
  526. [9:05 PM]
  527. There's plenty of evidence for my interpretation. For example Kyle says it was so bad he should have left.
  528. [9:07 PM]
  529. Anyway, insofar as VLR allowed the interpretation that Sigma is a 100% good person, I don't like the aspects that allowed such an interpretation. And VLR, by every measure I've found, is the trilogy instalment MOST divergent from Uchikoshi's vision.
  530.  
  531. matlingo07/31/2018
  532. Such as?
  533. [9:15 PM]
  534. When I finished VLR, i thought that radical 6 would play a more important part then it does in ZTD to the point where it would be released in every major ending.
  535.  
  536. Lenga07/31/2018
  537. https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroEscape/comments/8xx3nr/comment/e28jejj
  538. reddit
  539. r/ZeroEscape - The thing about VLR
  540. 22 votes and 13 comments so far on Reddit
  541. [9:16 PM]
  542. Evidence that VLR was the most heavily modified.
  543.  
  544. matlingo07/31/2018
  545. If Uchikoshi does not make dreams come true endings, then why does Akane and Junpei get engaged post cqd end 2 when the entire point of 999 is she is much more complex and incompatible then that?
  546.  
  547. Lenga07/31/2018
  548. That's... That's not the point of 999
  549. [9:19 PM]
  550. The point is despite her complexities, he loves her
  551. [9:20 PM]
  552. Which led to him chasing her for 45 years
  553. [9:20 PM]
  554. And she said point blank in VLR if this gs were different they'd marry
  555. [9:20 PM]
  556. And Uchikoshi said, that line of hers was the truth
  557.  
  558. matlingo07/31/2018
  559. That IS the point of 999. Like Akane was NOT June. She’s not evil, but she is way to far off for something like romance to get in the way. She is much more complex woman and ztd never shows that outside of transforming her into a yandere every time Junpei gets killed (plus the actions that led themselves to the vlr timeline)(edited)
  560. [9:23 PM]
  561. I was expecting her to have a personal exposition on what her life is like when it’s not a murder prison....
  562. [9:27 PM]
  563. Uchikoshi literally intended for her to be “the worlds WORST heroine” .
  564.  
  565. “Why is June such a sadist? She places bombs in the 9th Man and Nagisa Nijisaki.”
  566. “Nagisa Nijisaki is one of the people who killed her in an alternate history... She's the sort of woman who'll do whatever it takes to achieve her goals. Even though she seems like a nice girl, she's always plotting rather cold things. She'd easily kill someone if she needed to. Her personality is result of what happened to her 9 years before... Perhaps there were things that happened on that ship that couldn't be shown in the actual game.”
  567.  
  568. Lenga07/31/2018
  569. Hmmmm sadism
  570. [9:27 PM]
  571. Like say
  572. [9:27 PM]
  573. Committing murder with a chainsaw
  574. [9:28 PM]
  575. Revenge is BAKED into Akane s character
  576. [9:28 PM]
  577. Specifically because those people killed her in an alternate history, for example
  578. [9:28 PM]
  579. And look at Kyle, who learned all his morals and manners from Akane
  580. [9:29 PM]
  581. Upon learning Dio killed Akane, Kyle immediately tries to kill him
  582.  
  583. matlingo07/31/2018
  584. Yes, revenge is Akane, but she’s smarter than “Murdering people with a chainsawAkane” . She would likely poison people or do something smarter to kill that person. Yes, evil decision game forces them to kill each other, but outright violence is not akanes thing. Think a extremely cold Kyoko if she was a Assassin or something....
  585. [9:35 PM]
  586. At best, I wanted them at the end of ztd to take it one step at a time, not engage, their not ready for that yet...
  587.  
  588. Lenga07/31/2018
  589. Yeah but what is a smarter way to kill that person when they're currently armed with an axe
  590. August 2, 2018
  591.  
  592. matlingo08/02/2018
  593. Do you believe that ztd was %100 how Uchikoshi originality visioned it?
  594.  
  595. Lenga08/02/2018
  596. No. But I believe the parts that are there are at least 80% originally envisioned things, and the discrepancies are primarily in abridgements. Like Q team deserving five puzzle rooms.
  597.  
  598. matlingo08/02/2018
  599. Do believe a vn vlr like format for ztd is cheaper than What we have now?
  600.  
  601. Lenga08/02/2018
  602. Not sure.
  603.  
  604. matlingo08/02/2018
  605. Remember, they had to make a new engine for ztd, and that costs money.
  606. [12:07 AM]
  607. http://www.siliconera.com/2016/03/25/zero-time-dilemma-director-randomized-events-graphic-game-will/ “We made this new engine for Zero Time Dilemma and I would like to use this engine to create further cinematic stories in the future.”(edited)
  608. Siliconera
  609. Sato
  610. Zero Time Dilemma Director On Randomized Events, And How Graphic T...
  611. Siliconera caught up with Zero Time Dilemma director to talk about randomized events, philosophies behind its inspiration, how graphic the game will be, and more on the mysteries behind the series.
  612.  
  613. Lenga08/02/2018
  614. Written in the same engine as VLR and conveyed the same total amount of information as ZTD through text only: probably would have consumed less money but taken more time. Uchikoshi had limited time to personally write scenarios during the alotted development cycle for ZTD where he had to showrun and negotiate, he had two subwriters partly for that reason instead of just one for VLR
  615. [12:10 AM]
  616. Written in the same engine as VLR and conveyed the same amount of information as ZTD through some images as well: seems likely to have been more expensive. Luna has only three different poses for the entire infamous Luna ending
  617.  
  618. matlingo08/02/2018
  619. So? Do 2d (cutscenes) then. Honestly they should have borrowed the p5 (or most likely, cuz in house)UDG engine and have the style like that.(edited)
  620.  
  621. Lenga08/02/2018
  622. No, 2D is not necessarily cheaper!?
  623.  
  624. matlingo08/02/2018
  625. HOW?
  626.  
  627. Lenga08/02/2018
  628. You have to hand draw every frame of 2D, usually?
  629. [12:14 AM]
  630. Look lemme give you some links, this isn't news
  631. [12:17 AM]
  632. https://www.quora.com/What-is-more-expensive-3D-or-2D-animation
  633. What is more expensive - 3D or 2D animation? - Quora
  634. 2D animation is a traditional animation process that has been in existence for hundreds of years. Modern 2D animated videos can be created either by hand or via computer and requires one image to be followed by another in a slightly different posi...
  635. [12:17 AM]
  636. It can really go either way.
  637. [12:17 AM]
  638. VLR made a big jump to 3D graphics, with 2D art only sometimes appearing. Has any decision been made about Volume 3′s art style? Will it move closer to full 3D or full 2D animation? Or will it remain a hybrid of the two? Also, will we be seeing longer animated cutscenes for important events? (Either in 2D or 3D?) Due to budget reasoning I think it will be in 3D. We’re currently considering animating the event scenes at the moment.
  639.  
  640. matlingo08/02/2018
  641. I think he was probable taking about keeping it in vlr style.
  642.  
  643. Lenga08/02/2018
  644. He did state elsewhere that he originally intended VLR and ZTD to have the same engine. But. The fact remains that 2D would be more expensive
  645.  
  646. matlingo08/02/2018
  647. So? Still should have done it in vlr style.
  648. [12:23 AM]
  649. Admit it, you prefer ztd style over the other games.
  650. [12:24 AM]
  651. And also admit that the animation is extremely jerky and uncanny at times.
  652.  
  653. Lenga08/02/2018
  654. Look, if you didn't appreciate the hundreds of animations with engagement rings and scalpels, and I didn't appreciate whatever beauties of Sigma's inner narration about the eight fits in his field of view, back when we played the respective games, I don't know how an internet argument is supposed to change our minds.
  655. [12:24 AM]
  656. I've never denied either of those things!?
  657. [12:26 AM]
  658. All YOU'VE done is deny that they "did anything" with the expressive software - Sean recoiling in fear, Carlos holding up his hands like "the fuck", dozens of scenes, a number that neither 999 nor VLR could match
  659.  
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