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JaysonSunshine

What is morality?

JaysonSunshine
Jul 1st, 2017
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  1. [19:23] <+BrotherMartin> Here is my ethical model.
  2. [19:23] <+BrotherMartin> It is excellent.
  3. [19:23] <+BrotherMartin> 1 - Morality is a strictly human phenomenon.
  4. [19:23] <+BrotherMartin> 2 - One day, two humans were interacting and they were leveraging evolutionary architecture they didn't know about.
  5. [19:23] <+BS_Lewis> BrotherMartin: you need to define morality first
  6. [19:23] <+BS_Lewis> ty
  7. [19:24] <+BrotherMartin> BS_Lewis: You'll see.
  8. [19:24] <+BS_Lewis> ok
  9. [19:24] * BS_Lewis takes audio notes with his android app
  10. [19:24] <+BrotherMartin> 3 - These two humans had their minds selected by evolutionary theory they had no knowledge of to encourage cooperation in some interactions
  11. [19:24] <+TheYoungPope> BS_Lewis; here is a good book on the topic; https://www.amazon.com/dp/143917122X/
  12. [19:25] <+pela> [ The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values: Sam Harris: 8581129111119: Amazon.com: Books ]
  13. [19:25] <+BrotherMartin> 4 - Evolution had managed through its random algorithm to find that cooperation is an effective strategy in part of the space of Organisms Living
  14. [19:25] <+BrotherMartin> 5 - These two humans were capable of language as an evolutionary adaptation to organize their thoughts
  15. [19:26] <+BrotherMartin> 6 - These two humans were able to use their mutual language to reasonably precisely indicate some of their thoughts about their shared neural architectures
  16. [19:26] <+BrotherMartin> 7 - These two humans came to a tentative agreement: Since you are like me and we have previously worked together and seen some of those benefits, let us explicitly do that. I'll watch out for you while you sleep, and you do the same for me was communicated
  17. [19:27] <+BrotherMartin> 8 - These two humans know it was a good idea to use many other beings that looked like them and beings that didn't look like them as objects to further their survival
  18. [19:27] <+BrotherMartin> 9 - Some of these thoughts started to be written down and an intergeneration conversation began
  19. [19:28] <+BrotherMartin> 10 - People began to wonder what are the principles of these agreements we've been making with each other
  20. [19:28] <+BrotherMartin> 11 - People noticed that there were some beings with whom it was practice or correct to make these agreements, but other beings for which it was incorrect
  21. [19:29] <+BrotherMartin> 12 - At some point people noticed through this extended intergenerational conversation that people who had been previously excluded were now include. Some curious people wondered, What about those people over there who are currently excluded?
  22. [19:30] <+BrotherMartin> 13 - Different schools of thought emerged that asserted what the criteria were for being in the circle of this deal making. Most of these boundaries were at the human v. non-human difference, or a subset of human v. the rest of humans and non-humans
  23. [19:30] <+shoegazer> wow that sure is something
  24. [19:31] <+calloption> haha, reddit's the best
  25. [19:31] <+calloption> depREssEd oLD MaN cOMmITS SUICIDe bY dRivINg HIS CAR OF A FucKiNG cLiFf iN FrOnT Of cHiLDReN: https://i.redd.it/d6b6ioci3z6z.gif
  26. [19:31] <+BrotherMartin> 14 - Scientific taxonomy begins. Humans begin to formalize ideas about subgroups of humans and how humans are related to others
  27. [19:31] <+TheYoungPope> nobody with any sense visits reddit
  28. [19:31] <+BrotherMartin> 15 - Secularists notice that animals react similar to humans in some of the situations we've agreed we're trying to avoid in this moral deal making
  29. [19:32] <+BrotherMartin> 16 - Jeremy Bentham posits animals will be included in the moral deal making in the future
  30. [19:32] <+BrotherMartin> 17 - The theory of evolution is discovered. All human knowledge is reorganized
  31. [19:32] <+BrotherMartin> 18 - Humans begin to realize that when those first humans in (2) were interacting they were heavily influenced by evolutionary structures
  32. [19:33] <+calloption> TheYoungPope: whatever you do don't click link. NSFL
  33. [19:33] <+BrotherMartin> 19 - Biologists recognized that those evolutionary decisions were in the structure of the brain. That architecture may have pre-existed the emergence of our species
  34. [19:33] <+BrotherMartin> 20 - The intergenerational conversation shifts from strictly philosophical attempts to establish first principles vis-a-vis moral decision making, and starts to wonder about cognitive capacity as it varies across taxa
  35. [19:34] <+BrotherMartin> 21 - It is discovered that the ability to do this moral deal making predates the emergence of our species
  36. [19:34] <+BrotherMartin> 22 - Morality was never a strictly human phenomenon
  37. [19:35] <+calloption> I may or may not have used the ignore feature on a certain someone
  38. [19:35] <+calloption> so I have no clue what you guys are talking about
  39. [19:35] <+BrotherMartin> 23 - A scientific process ensues to discover which rights stem from which cognitive abilities and to actively map which animals have which rights based off their neural architecture
  40. [19:35] <+BrotherMartin> 24 - Cognitive science emerges. The formalization of the biases of humans continues in earnest
  41. [19:35] <+Herbie> lmao witf
  42. [19:35] <+TheYoungPope> https://www.amazon.com/dp/143917122X/
  43. [19:35] <+pela> [ The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values: Sam Harris: 8581129111119: Amazon.com: Books ]
  44. [19:36] <+BrotherMartin> 25 - Humans realize that they are team-based thinkers. One of the classic teams humans subconsciously leverage to understand their world is the species team
  45. [19:36] == terramadre [[email protected]] has joined #debates
  46. [19:36] == mode/#Debates [+v terramadre] by Raven`X
  47. [19:36] <+TheYoungPope> most people would benefit by reading more books and spending less time chatting with anons
  48. [19:36] <+BrotherMartin> 26 - The reorganization of human knowledge with evolutionary theory at the top is mostly complete. It is understood theism is an unconscious attempt to resolve problems of multiplayer games in a game theoric landscape
  49. [19:37] <+BrotherMartin> 27 - A conscious construction to solve the problems of multiplayer games comes into exist: Acausal decision theory
  50. [19:37] <+BrotherMartin> 28 - It is understood that the exploration of the fitness landscape initiated so many billions of years ago which discovered the value of cooperation has startling universal implications
  51. [19:38] <+calloption> THERetroGamerNY: nest permanently -- lol
  52. [19:38] <+BrotherMartin> 29 - The formalization of Kant's categorical imperative: When I act while thinking of the categorical imperative, and I choose to be 'moral' with other entities, then I determine the pattern for the entire universe at this level of cognition
  53. [19:38] <+TheYoungPope> Try http://wakingup.libsyn.com/84-landscapes-of-mind
  54. [19:38] <+pela> [ Waking Up with Sam Harris: #84  Landscapes of Mind ]
  55. [19:39] <+BrotherMartin> 30 - When I sit on the roadside with a vulnerable Laniakea, tending, giving water, being patient, I create a kind universe.
  56. [19:39] <+BrotherMartin> 31 - This, then, is morality. Amen.
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