January 2015 Roundtable - Operation: Keychain

Session Start: Fri Jan 02 11:56:53 2015
Session Ident: #KHWiki-noticeboard
[11:57] * Attempting to rejoin channel #KHWiki-noticeboard
[11:57] * Rejoined channel #KHWiki-noticeboard
[11:57] * Topic is 'Welcome to #KHWiki-noticeboard, the official channel for business and wiki-related discussions on the subject of the independent KHWiki! Please refrain from socializing in this channel. You can do so in #KHWiki-social instead. Next Roundtable: January 2nd. Check out the current issue of the KHWiki magazine! http://www.khwiki.com/KHWiki:Magazine/Issue_2'
[11:57] * Set by Xion4ever!482f7d69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.47.125.105 on Sat Dec 20 13:26:25 2014
[11:57] * ChanServ sets mode: +v KSM
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[11:57] * +KeybladeSpyMaste (KeybladeSp@c-50-168-202-169.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[11:58] <VanitastheBloody> How far are we?
[11:59] * FifteenthMember (FifteenthM@cpc7-camd15-2-0-cust531.20-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #KHWiki-noticeboard
[11:59] * ENX is now known as ENX|Away
[11:59] <Pea14733> NOW
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[12:04] <Pea14733> The first agenda is KSM's ._.
[12:06] <Chainoffire> I kknow what it is, but I'd really like for him to be here for this
[12:06] <Pea14733> I  think I know what it is ._.
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[12:07] <VanitastheBloody> Hey.
[12:07] * KSM is now known as KeybladeSpyMaste
[12:07] <Pea14733> This has ti start NOW
[12:08] <Byzantinefire> Agreed.
[12:08] <AiXon> I'm all ears. ^^
[12:08] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> Ok
[12:08] <Chainoffire> Good morning/evening/afternon everyone!
[12:08] <MateusinhoEX> Here
[12:09] <FifteenthMember> Guys
[12:09] <FifteenthMember> Let's start
[12:09] <Pea14733> So
[12:09] <ENX> Agreed.
[12:09] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> Operation: Keychain
[12:09] * FifteenthMember leans closer in
[12:09] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> It is basically a plan for the wiki for the next year.
[12:09] <Chainoffire> probably the most imporatant thing on the agenda
[12:09] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> It started modestly towards the beginning of the month.
[12:09] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> Now we're at 10 pages.
[12:09] <FifteenthMember> Ahem
[12:09] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=D3B9337A3DDD0869!25229&authkey=!APu1hi8c_kMdaLM
[12:09] <FifteenthMember> link?
[12:10] <FifteenthMember> woaah
[12:10] <FifteenthMember> this is legit
[12:10] <FifteenthMember> ^_^
[12:10] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> With this, I officially move to close MegaProject: Arise. The only thing left is rolling over to Operation: Keychain, so we can call it good.
[12:11] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> 90% Complete, after all
[12:11] <Chainoffire> agreed
[12:11] <Pea14733> Ten pages O_o
[12:11] <MateusinhoEX> Well, I'm member of at least 2 or 3 KH brazilian groups on Facebook
[12:11] <Chainoffire> don't worry, we'll go over it al
[12:11] <Chainoffire> **all
[12:11] <MateusinhoEX> So I can share the Let's Play links with them, which would take some traffic here
[12:11] <Pea14733> ^And podcast
[12:12] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> The whole thing is up for debate at anytime, really, but I think we should go down the list. I feel the first thing on it is the most important.
[12:12] <Pea14733> I think I'll need a little time to rea all this ._.
[12:12] <Pea14733> read*
[12:12] <Chainoffire> we'll just go over it
[12:12] <FifteenthMember> And I need to go
[12:12] <FifteenthMember> wai
[12:12] <FifteenthMember> >.>
[12:12] <FifteenthMember> I'm sad
[12:12] <Chainoffire> first of all, what's the whole point of this thing? we have 4 main goals
[12:13] <Chainoffire> 1. Increase both of our traffics
[12:14] <Chainoffire> 2. strengthen the bond between the sites
[12:14] <Chainoffire> 3. efine, Strengthen and Expand the focus and coverage of the Kingdom Hearts Wiki and The Keyhole
[12:14] <Chainoffire> **Define
[12:14] <Chainoffire> 4. Increase internet recognition of both the Kingdom Hearts Wiki and The Keyhole
[12:15] <Chainoffire> our wiki has been too focused on internal affiars that we've forgotten who we are
[12:15] <Chainoffire> and what we're supposed to do
[12:15] <MateusinhoEX> I'm down on the Affliations part
[12:16] <MateusinhoEX> I definnitely agree with unifying both
[12:16] <MateusinhoEX> There's plenty of content we could use from KH Insider and Destiny Islands, for example.
[12:16] <Chainoffire> Chainging grammar, making fancy templates, and designing our skin are good things to do, but we need to do more than that
[12:17] <Chainoffire> people don't come here for good grammar, fancy templates and shiny skin. The come here to find where the goshd*** mushrooms are in the first game
[12:17] <MateusinhoEX> Basically, one of the mst important things is fill the most possible ocntent
[12:17] <MateusinhoEX> *content
[12:17] * FifteenthMember (FifteenthM@cpc7-camd15-2-0-cust531.20-2.cable.virginm.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
[12:17] <MateusinhoEX> like, completing every stub page, add missing animations and sprites
[12:18] <Chainoffire> ehh.. that's still a bit internal, but it is definatly stuff that needs work
[12:18] <Chainoffire> I'm not saying it's bad to do these things, I'm just saying our primary focus should be elsewhere
[12:19] <Pea14733> True
[12:19] <MateusinhoEX> I think I got it.
[12:19] <MateusinhoEX> Focus on showing the wiki to more people
[12:19] <MateusinhoEX> Getting more users and people to help
[12:19] <Chainoffire> exactly
[12:20] <MateusinhoEX> That's the main objective of the Magazine, for example
[12:20] <VanitastheBloody> I'll put the time in.
[12:20] <Chainoffire> right, and it's working wonderfuly.
[12:20] <VanitastheBloody> To rewrite the articles.
[12:20] <Chainoffire> when it gets out o time
[12:20] <AiXon> Just a side note, for all the wikis involved, there are a huge number of KH fan pages for different characters on Facebook, some of which I follow. Asking for advertisement of the wikis might be a good idea. Just a thought
[12:20] <Chainoffire> **on
[12:20] <ENX> Forgive me for sounding dumb, but is it possible we could make the Wiki more like it was in its "glory days," before we all became so uptight and strict? I'm not saying allow our users to spit in the wind and do whatever, but it'd be nice if editing could feel less like unpaid work.
[12:21] <ENX> Is it possible to do that through this project, I mean.
[12:21] <Chainoffire> Yes, yes it is
[12:21] <Chainoffire> and that's on our big 10 page list of stuff as well
[12:21] <ENX> I mean we're all fans of Kingdom Hearts when you get down to it
[12:21] <ENX> No one is better than anyone, smarter than anyone. It's like we're all friends who come to a gathering and geek out by sharing our knowledge.
[12:22] <MateusinhoEX> I really think we can. I was very pleased when I saw you guys are making a Let's Play series
[12:22] <Pea14733> Wait, what was the reason we became this strict?
[12:22] <Chainoffire> KSM, would you take over here?
[12:22] <Chainoffire> I'll be back shortly
[12:23] <ENX> I don't realyl know why we were so strict. All I know is when I first joined, there were certain staffers who became inactive and were replaced with different staffers who had different objectives. And because the Wiki became a hierarchy with that change in staff, things started going downhill and our Wiki received a very bad reputation. I can't tell you how many negative comments I've read about us on this and other Wikis o
[12:23] <ENX> Also how much traffic we lost when the Wikis split.
[12:24] <ENX> So many people decided they'd rather be on the less-strict Keyhole.
[12:24] <ENX> And for the longest time, KHWiki was mostly dead as a result.
[12:24] <Pea14733> True
[12:24] <VanitastheBloody> I
[12:24] <MateusinhoEX> What I noticed, is that The Keyhole was really more, let's say, "famous" than the Wiki
[12:25] <VanitastheBloody> I'm not sure how to make it un-strict
[12:25] <MateusinhoEX> It was focusing more on users than content
[12:25] <Pea14733> I don't feel that this khwiki is "strict"
[12:25] <MateusinhoEX> ANd the KHWiki was the inverse
[12:25] <ENX> What I envision is a warm, welcoming site where everyone's opinion matters and we try to work out what is best, rather than oppressing what people want.
[12:25] <ENX> Basically what we need is a balance.
[12:25] <ENX> For this "Greater Wiki"
[12:25] <Byzantinefire> Doesn't everything need balance?
[12:26] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> brb. Breakfast
[12:26] <MateusinhoEX> A balance between both the Keyhole and the WIki
[12:26] <VanitastheBloody> If we could combine them agian somehow.
[12:26] <ENX> Like, "At KHWiki, we focus on the content, but we won't shoot you for talking to a friend via their talk page if they can't come on the IRC."
[12:26] <Pea14733> Isn't that normal?  ._.
[12:27] <Pea14733> I think people just got a bad image on the word "strict"
[12:27] <AiXon> The atmosphere on the Keyhole is created entirely by the users, as well as the staff, and there's no pressure to do things (If you volunteer for something, you're free to spend as much time as you want sorting it out). More enjoyment is had in the process...
[12:27] <ENX> All I know is how i felt on the Wiki when I first joined vs. when the staff was changed.
[12:27] <ENX> I once compared the KH Wiki and the goings-on there to Animal Farm
[12:27] <ENX> If anyone's read that book
[12:27] <Byzantinefire> Oh that book.
[12:28] <VanitastheBloody> I heard of it, I think.
[12:28] <Byzantinefire> Its a good book.
[12:28] <Chainoffire> I hope you don't feel like the wiki is an Orwellian system
[12:28] <Chainoffire> because that's not what we want
[12:28] <MateusinhoEX> I understand ENX. I entered the KHWiki just after it's separation from the Keyhole. I htink that's the point were the wiki ended up more content focused, and users started to get that bad image
[12:28] <ENX> Chainoffire, for the longest time, I felt like we were using an Orwellian system.
[12:28] <Byzantinefire> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm here it is.
[12:28] <ENX> And I got grief for expressing how I felt.
[12:29] <VanitastheBloody> I really have no problem with this wiki the way it is now actually.
[12:29] <VanitastheBloody> It's nice, and sociable.
[12:29] <ENX> For the longest time, I felt antagonized by the community, and that was why I left for so long and lost my administrator rights.
[12:29] <VanitastheBloody> What's strict about it, ENX?
[12:29] <FinalRest> I get it too. I was one of the ones that moved to the KHWiki, only to move back to the Keyhole permanently
[12:29] <MateusinhoEX> Like, if here they could not get any interaction with the other users, only having to focus on feeling pages, which is not true. If it weren't for you guys, maybe I would never have played KH3D, for example :)
[12:29] <ENX> Well see, here's the thing
[12:29] <Byzantinefire> Well i know that feeling ENX.
[12:30] <MateusinhoEX> *filling pages, sorry :p
[12:30] <VanitastheBloody> Matesuinho, how often are you here?
[12:30] <Pea14733> He used to be a regular
[12:30] <Pea14733> Now he has stuffs
[12:31] <ENX> With MegaProject:Arise, I feel like people such as FM and KSM made valiant efforts to revive the KH Wiki into what it was. Honestly, the Wikis only split because the staff at the top of the pecking order decided they hated Wikia's overruling formatting changes.
[12:31] <MateusinhoEX> Like, 1 year ago I left, and I was here for another whole one
[12:31] <ENX> They found it grounds to say "We're a content site, and our old site is being left to become a fansite."
[12:31] <VanitastheBloody> Fansite?
[12:31] <Chainoffire> "We're only a wiki." - A forum from long ago
[12:31] <Pea14733> Aren't we all fansites XD
[12:31] <VanitastheBloody> I don't get it.
[12:31] <Chainoffire> true dat
[12:32] <ENX> I honestly don't know if I made the right choice to stay on the KHWiki...I never felt like I belonged or mattered. Even as an admin, I started feeling like I was elected only to fill a slot, not because I was considered worthy and deserving of the position.
[12:32] <MateusinhoEX> We have to find a way to restore that image, to show that here there are also nice people behind the editors which are ready to help
[12:32] <Byzantinefire> It could have worse.
[12:32] <Pea14733> Aww come on. You worked so much
[12:33] <ENX> I've put so much work into the Wiki and gotten so much negativity in return that I really do feel like it's an Orwellian site.
[12:33] <ENX> I don't mean to complain guys, not at all.
[12:33] <MateusinhoEX> And ENX, I really think you deserve the position, just for the small time we worked on the first magazine
[12:33] <VanitastheBloody> Me too.
[12:33] <ENX> Well that was something I wanted to ask about, giving my rights back.
[12:33] <VanitastheBloody> I try to become like you simply because I want to become an Admin :p
[12:33] <Chainoffire> actually ENX, that's also something we wanted to cover
[12:34] <ENX> I'm here a lot more now, despite college, and with this new era of the Wiki, I feel as if I could really make a difference there
[12:34] <ENX> And the Keyhole
[12:34] * ANX219 (62139b64@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.19.155.100) has joined #KHWiki-noticeboard
[12:34] <ENX> I care about both sites. I just never understood the Keyhole :P That's my bad.
[12:34] <MateusinhoEX> LIke, I feel the opposite as ENX. I sometimes feel bad for leaving you guys, leaving some of the things I started unfinished. Because I different from other users, saw the good side of the wiki.
[12:34] <ENX> Well I did too
[12:34] <ENX> It was certain people I couldn't stand :P
[12:34] <Chainoffire> ENX: no problem, we're not exactly black and white
[12:34] <Pea14733> I do, MEX
[12:34] * AiXon (56a5a79b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.165.167.155) Quit
[12:35] * Chainoffire (18f7ffbf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.247.255.191) has left #KHWiki-noticeboard
[12:35] <MateusinhoEX> Everyone helped me make the first template (The Drive Forms one), one thing I never knew how to do, never had worked with codes before.
[12:35] <ENX> All I know is there are plenty of times with my resumed activity that I feel like "This would be so much easier if I could just block this vandal/delete this page myself/move this image myself." Those are times when no one is around but me.
[12:36] * TheSilentHero (541af050@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.26.240.80) Quit
[12:36] <ENX> A perfect example of what I'm talking about is my talk page. If you look at the earlier archives vs. the later ones, you can basically see the change in the Wiki right there from what it was to is.
[12:36] <Byzantinefire> This seems so familiar.
[12:37] <MateusinhoEX> I think we are on the right way. The return of the Featured User and the Mirage Arena are a good example. It was because of them I started editing after all. My initial goal was to be a Featured User, and be able to vote for the brackets
[12:37] <ENX> This is basically the dawn of a new era. MegaProject:Arise was a huge success for so many reasons. It increased traffic and it also got me editing again because I noticed a change.
[12:37] <MateusinhoEX> Those will sure bring new users and restore the friendly image of us
[12:37] <MateusinhoEX> THE MAGAZINE MAN THAT IS AWESOME!
[12:38] <Pea14733> Oh my god you don't know how touched I feel right now XD
[12:38] <MateusinhoEX> I never told you guys, but I plan to store money to get PS4 and KH3 on release date to get working with them here ASP :)
[12:39] <ENX> I don't mean to share a sob story, but I remember when I actually used to have friends on the Wiki. They were my only friends in the world. Now I basically have nobody, due to absence and my own hesitance to edit. I feel like the past few months on the KH Wiki when things were bad for us created a negative image of myself in everyone's mind. Maybe I'm just paranoid....
[12:39] <VanitastheBloody> I'll be your friend.
[12:39] <ANX219> <3
[12:39] * VanitastheBloody handshakes
[12:40] <ENX> But people like KSM, Vanitas, basically everyone at the Keyhole...you guys are all so warm and close-seeming to each other that I get jealous :P
[12:40] <Byzantinefire> Well i could expand your circle of friends.
[12:40] <Pea14733> Yeah
[12:40] <ENX> I want to be in on all the major projects and such :P
[12:40] <Draaek> We can all be friends dw, wiki is amazing for bringing people together and I talk for both Keyhole and Wiki
[12:40] <ANX219> internet is amazing for bringing people together
[12:40] <ANX219> T~T
[12:40] <VanitastheBloody> We should combine them. somehow.
[12:40] <Pea14733> Yeah
[12:40] <ENX> But we're not here to be sappy. My point is that I feel like the Wiki really lost something.
[12:40] <Pea14733> We lost the fun of "community"
[12:41] <VanitastheBloody> internet = my RL
[12:41] <ENX> Like we may have comprehensive articles, sure, but we're only operating at 50% capacity, I feel like.
[12:41] <MateusinhoEX> BUt I think it's getting taht thing back :)
[12:41] <VanitastheBloody> We need more bonding instead of working
[12:41] <ENX> Exactly!
[12:41] <ANX219> that's why i proposed user trivia
[12:41] <MateusinhoEX> Sorry for my english guys, its a little unused latelly
[12:41] <FinalRest> What the Keyhole lost was a reason for existence. Kind of the opposite problem of the KHWiki. :P
[12:41] <ENX> Exactly :P
[12:42] <ANX219> so we could learn the weird stuff about each other and bond over the random stuff
[12:42] <ENX> See, this is so Vanitas/Ventus
[12:42] <MateusinhoEX> One thing I really liked in the Magazine was the interview
[12:42] <ENX> Actually, the two wikis are EXACTLY like Ventus and Vanitas
[12:42] <MateusinhoEX> and that is just the thing, together with the let's play and walkthroughs
[12:42] <MateusinhoEX> that can bond us together
[12:42] <VanitastheBloody> I don't know about that XD
[12:42] <FinalRest> Is the Keyhole Ventus?
[12:42] <ENX> I'd like to think those types of things are just a step in the right direction, though.
[12:42] <Pea14733> Yeah and we're Vanitas
[12:42] <VanitastheBloody> Yep.
[12:42] <MateusinhoEX> Kinda
[12:42] <Byzantinefire> No i don't see it like that.
[12:42] <ANX219> i was having ideas of like a google hangout but that's like irc but seeing each other xD
[12:42] <Byzantinefire> its not equal.
[12:43] <VanitastheBloody> "What's yours, is mine."
[12:43] <MateusinhoEX> We have the Negativity :p
[12:43] <Pea14733> Anyway guys
[12:43] <Pea14733> What do we do?
[12:43] <ENX> And well, the point I wanted to make with that comment was this: we're broken, not whole...we have the potential to FORGE THE X-BLADE
[12:43] <ENX> Meaning, we both have what the other needs.
[12:43] <ENX> Our Wiki's hearts are shattered, to continue the metaphor.
[12:43] <Byzantinefire> Your implying a merge.
[12:43] <Pea14733> I think we had this merge discussion long ago
[12:44] * FifteenthMember (~Fifteenth@cpc7-camd15-2-0-cust531.20-2.cable.virginm.net) has joined #KHWiki-noticeboard
[12:44] <FifteenthMember> GUYS
[12:44] <Pea14733> I was in favor for it
[12:44] <FifteenthMember> I'M BACK
[12:44] <FifteenthMember> WHEE
[12:44] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> back
[12:44] <FifteenthMember> may I have a log
[12:44] <FifteenthMember> please?
[12:44] <MateusinhoEX> wb FM
[12:44] <ANX219> can you elaborate Pea xD
[12:44] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> Where are we?
[12:44] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> I can look back, but it's super long.
[12:44] <ANX219> metaphors and bonding and such
[12:45] <FifteenthMember> does that mean
[12:45] * Pea14733 is finding the forum thread
[12:45] <FifteenthMember> I don't get a log?
[12:45] <FifteenthMember> I cri ;_;
[12:45] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> Can't believe I missed so much in 20 minutes.
[12:45] <ENX> I could see how you'd think that, but that's not really what I'm saying. I'm thinking on a larger scale, the "Grand Wiki"
[12:45] <+KeybladeSpyMaste> FM, give me a sec
[12:45] <Byzantinefire> Two sides of a coin that is no longer currency.
[12:46] <ENX> Like, we can stay separate, but I feel as if both sites should draw elements from the other.