<enhanox> yeah :P
<enhanox> that's still a hell of a lot of TV for the money though, compared to how much it used to cost to get like a 32" CRT or something
* steve30 remembers paying £75 for a 14" CRT TV in 2004
<enhanox> in 1999 (I couldn't find a 1998 Argos catalogue), a 32" widescreen Trinitron was £1250 (which is about £2060 now - or €2300/$2600), and that was the biggest model they had
<steve30> I miss our old flat trinitron TV
<enhanox> so to be able to get a 50"+ flat panel for £300 is mindblowingly cheap in comparison :P
<steve30> I think in the early/mid 2000s, a 32" off-brand CRT was a couple of hundred.
<enhanox> admittedly it's probably unfair to compare an unknown budget brand against Sony, but even a big Sony TV now doesn't cost £2000
* enhanox nods
<enhanox> I forget how much I paid for my Wharfedale CRT, that was a widescreen 20-something inch (or low 30s? I forget)
<enhanox> but I think when I got that, LCDs were very much a thing already
<enhanox> so it probably would've been "low-end" and cheap
<steve30> Is Wharfedale still a thing? I don't routinely read argos catalogues any more
<enhanox> dunno, this would've been mid-00s somewhen, so quite a while ago
<enhanox> seems the brand was licensed to Argos until 2008, so it probably wasn't "real" Wharfedale, just the brand name glued onto some generic imported gear and sold in Argos
<enhanox> wikipedia says they only made audio equipment since that point
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<enhanox> it must've been cheap though, because I wouldn't have been able to afford hundreds and hundreds on a TV, I wouldn't have thought it would've been any more than a couple of hundred
<enhanox> likely closer to £100, at a guess
<enhanox> but yeah, I only want monitors these days, if I had a reason to buy a larger display to hang on a living room wall or something I might possibly consider a TV (just because monitors don't tend to go that large) but I'd almost certainly just plug other stuff into it and use it as a simple screen
<steve30> I've watched TV on my 14" CRT video monitor this last couple of weeks :D
<enhanox> worked perfectly well in the 90s, why not now, right? :P
<steve30> I think this chinese takeaway we're having for tea will nicely complement the fish and chips I had for lunch :p
<Polesch> Nvidia is hyping the new RTX so much I might just have to get one.
<Polesch> https://videocardz.com/newz/exclusive-msi-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-gaming-x-trio-pictured
<enhanox> steve30 - both of those sound good right now :P
<enhanox> Polesch - I'll be sure to start saving up my $800 or whatever they'll cost ;)
<Polesch> That was optimistic :P
<enhanox> it's a non-issue, I won't be getting one anyway :P
<MrElendig> I might get a 20xx card next year
<MrElendig> going to see what amd comes out with as a responce, if any, might skip yet another gen too though
<enhanox> my 1050Ti works fine, can't do much 4K gaming with it, but any significant upgrade would be more expensive than it'd be worth for me personally, and anyway the GTX2050(Ti) isn't due out any time soon, and rumours say it won't have the advanced features of the RTX20x0 anyway
<MrElendig> currently on a 970
<MrElendig> but I want to move to 1440p
<enhanox> for general desktop/workstation use even a mid-range card seems perfectly fine to me
<enhanox> just when you start gaming at higher resolutions it all falls apart a bit
<MrElendig> will probably go for 2060ti or similar
<monsted> i'll probably get a 2070 quite quickly. my 970 is sick.
* enhanox puts medicine in it
<Polesch> The RTX sure is tempting.
<Polesch> MrElendig https://www.komplett.no/kampanje/67444/nvidia-live-stream
<monsted> i never had any luck with it. my first one made the system blue screen just rarely enough that they couldn't reproduce it when i tried to get it replaced. it took a year before i finally got it replaced under warranty. the new one had sticky fans and a "turns fans off when idle" feature, which results in it running one fan at 100% while the other is dead.
<MrElendig> 2080 would be tempting for 4k/vr use though
<Polesch> I should try selling my 1080 Ti again
<monsted> i could be tempted to get a 2080 and a 1440p ultrawide hdr 100+ hz gsync monitor
<monsted> i really wish they'd adopt freesync. gsync for 4k high hz monitors is like $500 :(
<Polesch> Have you looked at nvidia's bank account lately?
<monsted> yeah, they don't give a shit
<monsted> they could be forced into it with HDMI adaptive sync
<MrElendig> monsted: non-hdr is <100usd premium
<MrElendig> it is the hdr one that is insane
<monsted> (which is pretty much just freesync)
<MrElendig> but hdr is awesome
<MrElendig> sort of strange that they have not rolled an asic yet
<monsted> yeah, it's rumored that the gsync module is a $2500 FPGA
<monsted> (though it probably sells for more like $500 in bulk)
<Polesch> Something crazy.
<MrElendig> even for the non-hdr one it would probably work out, specially if they got even more market share with it
<Polesch> My new monitor is beautiful, I like 4k and HDR.
* MrElendig is tempted to get a new monitor due to -20% off everything at power.no
<monsted> i don't really want 4k. i seriously regret it on my hackintosh
<MrElendig> I want 4k, but the cards to drive it doesn't really exist yet :p
<MrElendig> for newer games
<Polesch> If I turn off Windows scaling, I regret it too. lol.
<MrElendig> though 1080p upscaled can look quite nice too though
<Polesch> I can achieve 100 fps in BF1, 4k and HDR.
<Polesch> Which is far better than I had thought
<Polesch> It's a very CPU-heavy game though
<enhanox> this is a thing, apparently: https://sputniknews.com/viral/201808011066849989-polish-brewery-vagina-beer/
<enhanox> I joked about that years ago, but... uh... somebody actually did it
* enhanox chalks up a conversation murder on the scoreboard
<monsted> i still think i'd enjoy 1440p/144hz more than the 4k/20hz my GPU could deliver :)
<monsted> but i'll obviously have to try the 4k display for gaming if i get a better gPU
<monsted> GPU
<Polesch> Hmmm, now I'm confused - Intel's new HEDT line with the 28-core LGA3647 part will be on a new X599 chipset - what happens to the LGA2011 socketed X299?
<Polesch> That's all becoming messy, as AMD likes to play off Intel's names
<Polesch> AMD has X399, X370 and X470, and expected to release X499
<monsted> i'm pretty sure that X599 thing will sell approximately zero units
<Polesch> Really depends what plans they have for LGA3647 CPUs
<MrElendig> I'm a bit more optimistic on intels behalf
<Polesch> They already have 18 cores on X299, right?
<Polesch> Will they transition all those over to the larger socket for no good reason?
<MrElendig> for certain workloads and the "we have always used intel" factor
<monsted> they'll have to make it ridiculously oversized and overengineered to deliver and cool the kilowatt it eats
<Polesch> Yeah, it's a ridiculous CPU to sell to the consumer market
<monsted> and very few people will buy that instead of a Xeon
<MrElendig> it is sort of competing more against the epyc than the tr
<Polesch> They want to compete with TR obviously, it's a consumer CPU
<MrElendig> in some ways
<Polesch> Will not have ECC memory support for sure, less memory channels, less PCIe lanes etc.
<monsted> i don't see them aiming this at the epyc market
<MrElendig> less issue with numa
<Polesch> At least some of that.
<monsted> they already have a bunch of xeons aimed at epyc
<MrElendig> also xpoint ram
<Polesch> If they make the 28-core compete with TR, it will require double the power.
<monsted> and datacenter people will just laugh at this thing and buy one that doesn't eat a kilowatt :)
<Polesch> That's the simple fact, as far as I see it.
<monsted> i wouldn't automatically assume that this thing works with Xpoint NVDIMMs
<Polesch> The benefits of the monolithic architecture, like memory latency, won't be obvious or very useful the consumer
<Polesch> Maybe a very niche market of "deep learning" and "AI" semi-professionals
<monsted> nope, they use GPUs or FPGAs
<MrElendig> and 250w is not that bad compared to amd
<Polesch> The 28-core Xeons that run at acceptable power usage is at 2.2 GHz base or something.
<Polesch> To compete they need to push that up to 3 GHz at least
<monsted> there will be a very small number of people who want high clock rates and many cores, but i wouldn't be surprised if the only people who gets this are people like linus (mr linustechtips) who gets theirs for free more or less as a joke
<Polesch> https://ark.intel.com/products/120508/Intel-Xeon-Platinum-8176-Processor-38_5M-Cache-2_10-GHz
<Polesch> 2.1 GHz base
<monsted> it'll be much more reasonable to just get two 14 core xeons instead of one of these
<Polesch> Dual-xeon machines work very well
<Polesch> Whatever happens with Intel, it will be fun and interesting to experience
<monsted> there's a 3 GHz 18-core xeon 6154. just get two of those.
<Polesch> Damn
<Polesch> Indeed
<enhanox> how many limbs do they cost? :P
<monsted> list price is $3543
<enhanox> ouch
<Polesch> 200 W Intel TDPs
<Polesch> That's 300 W real ones
<Polesch> Or are they not faking it on the Xeons yet?
<enhanox> if I was trying to optimise a datacentre (or even a rack) I'd want to know the /real/ power consumption and heat production
<monsted> i wouldn't think so, since they have to conform to the cooling properties of whatever they go into
<monsted> HP increased the size of their blades (in the Synergy 12000 enclosure) to make room for 300W TDP chips
<enhanox> wouldn't be very efficient to have to design enterprise computing around "well, Intel says it's 200W, but they're probably talking out of their arses, so let's guesstimate 350W worth of cooling just to be on the safe side"
<monsted> well, that's how it usually goes in the real world :)
<enhanox> but it shouldn't, surely?
<enhanox> with specs that important, in that environment, you'd hope for /actual/ numbers, not just some marketing figure someone imagines might sound vaguely acceptable on the spec sheet
<monsted> "ok, it's 42U, so it'll take 21 2U systems with two 150W CPUs. We'll double that to be safe." *hands off to the facilities people* "OK, they wanted 6 kW per rack. We'd better double that to be safe."
<enhanox> sure, naturally you build in margins, but if the numbers you're working with are totally bogus you'd be massively overspeccing for no good reason
<enhanox> or you could potentially be, I should say
<monsted> you should've seen the IBM sales droid when he saw our new datacenters with 125ish racks. he was obviously doing the mental math of how many RS/6000 BS50's he could sell to fill it up :)
<monsted> er, B50
<enhanox> you might've been right the first time ;)
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<monsted> our last two datacenters got 21 kW per rack
<monsted> when i left, they were both full. and consumed 5 kW per rack.
<enhanox> I suppose it does make some sense to overspec, both for safety and in case anything more powerful goes in there in the future
<enhanox> but I'd still want proper numbers :P
<monsted> this got overspec'ed because my boss was an idiot
<monsted> he bought three complete datacenters without talking to anyone, so everything was wrong.
<enhanox> better that he overspec'd rather than underspec'd everything I guess? :P
<monsted> sure. but i could've used the million dollars he overspent for a lot of other things.
* enhanox nods
<monsted> he put in like $200k worth of fiber trunks. i used two of them.
<enhanox> yay future expansion? :P
<monsted> (and had to install extra of the ones i actually needed, while ignoring the mountain of stuff i didn't)
<monsted> not helped by the fact that the product he bought was horrendously shitty
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<monsted> we'd decided not to use multimode fiber in the new datacenters. so obviously he bought 76 multimode fiber trunks
<enhanox> oh dear
<enhanox> he does sound a bit... unhelpful :P
<monsted> (and while my back was turned, my manager decided to call in people from our other location to finish my work - so they took my unfinished cable plans and installed the wrong fiber type all around)
<monsted> i took a day off and when i came back, they'd stuck multimode fiber in all of my singlemode optics... which does work for short distances, but...
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<monsted> i found it hilarious that i had swapped two firewalls, so we had one rack full of devices named *A and a single *B firewall, another rack full of *B stuff and a single *A firewall. and they then cable everything correctly from the *B firewall into the gear in the other rack, instead of swapping the firewalls.
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<monsted> then i called in sick with stress and when i came back 15 months later as a consultant, an old colleague greeted me with "oh, you're back? then we won't have to wait six months to have stuff done wrong!"
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<mattinx> lol
<mattinx> sounds about how it goes
<Polesch> TR2 reviews are painful to watch and read somtimes.
<enhanox> "I mean, it's ok, I guess, if you like that sort of thing, but why the hell would you buy an AMD chip when Intel runs games 3fps faster? what a waste of money!"
<Polesch> "Here are 30 benchmarks we ran with it, does good in some and not others. Take from that what you want."
<enhanox> oh, yeah, those
<enhanox> realistically I dunno what else they can say though
<Polesch> They don't use benchmarks to show or prove anything.
<enhanox> hm, maybe it gives readers/viewers a chance to exercise their analytical skills? :P
<enhanox> I do get a bit irritated by the videos though, "hi, we benchmarked a chip, here's a graph, here's another graph, here's another graph, here's another graph - so as you can see, it's kinda like other chips, bye!"
<enhanox> what's the actual point? I could read those graphs on a page that doesn't go away 3 seconds later
<Polesch> If you don't have a purpose with the benchmark, all it shows is how good the CPU is at running that benchmark. Nobody uses or buys CPUs to run that benchmark.
<enhanox> I dunno, a few people do :P
<enhanox> "my computer has more TesticleMarks than yours!"
<enhanox> though game benchmarks, productivity macro benchmarks, and stuff like Cinebench might be genuinely useful
<Polesch> Yeah, they are - if you as a reviewer explains what it means or shows
<enhanox> true
<Polesch> A lot of the benchmarks I see used on the 32-core chip has a thread limit, one is 10 threads max, another is 12. So the results are worse than other CPUs, they still just throw the numbers at you
<enhanox> yeah, that's definitely something a reviewer should mention
<enhanox> pretty important detail that the numbers alone don't show
<Polesch> And in several benchmarks the actualy CPU usage is very sporadic throughout, so it's impossible to tell what it means
<enhanox> (well, they might, but you'd have to analyse them)
<enhanox> really depends who your target audience are though
<enhanox> like, if you're talking to a bunch of gamers, they don't really care that 75% of the cores aren't going to do anything in a game, they only care that the Intel chip is faster because it does more frames
<enhanox> "does this chip make Tomb Raider run faster?" "yes" "then I'll buy that one"
<enhanox> LTT, for example, they do some stuff that's related to enterprise-level stuff sometimes, but loads of their reviews are "ok, but how does it play games?"
<enhanox> they could do more useful stuff though, like all the projects they've done with virtualisation, they don't really talk much about how having all those cores really helps with that, they just sort of gloss over it and try to get 10 people playing games on the same server
<mattinx> http://pkl.net/~matt/secondpersoninthequeue.wav
<mattinx> WTF is with the inflection at the end of "queue"?
<enhanox> in the /queue?!/
<Polesch> I have to stop reading and getting agitated.
<Polesch> Time for bed.
<enhanox> later
<mattinx> enhanox: quite
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<Jobe> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-45225045
<Jobe> well the council aren't wrong
<Jobe> driving on the pavement is an offence under the highways act
<T3sl4co1l> oh my god, sending huge attachments through outlook is incredibly slow
<T3sl4co1l> like 10 minutes to send 15 megs
<T3sl4co1l> but, doing it via outlook web app
<T3sl4co1l> mere seconds
<ServalSpots> The second person in any queue garners at least some incredulity.  After all, if it weren't for them there wouldn't a queue to begin with
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<T3sl4co1l> ten minutes to pizza :3
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<Okie> Is it delivery?
<T3sl4co1l> it's diT3sl4coilo
<Okie> The transistors might be a bit crunchy if you leave it in there too long
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* X3 has changed the topic to: Welcome to the #eevgob! FOTD: pepperoni pizza croissant roll <https://i.imgur.com/75PjuWk.jpg> | Stats: http://goo.gl/7GtYOx | Official soundtrack: https://youtu.be/3NpEqnBkF0w (jspiros)
<T3sl4co1l> D:
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<T3sl4co1l> my brain says proceed, but my heart, and my arteries, say no!
<jspiros> flipping the script, I see
<T3sl4co1l> ¿ʇdᴉɹɔs ǝɥʇ ƃuᴉddᴉlɟ
<T3sl4co1l> (apologies to anyones's chat client that's not unicode supporting)
<Jobe> T3sl4co1l: dont apologise to those heathens
<Jobe> they need to fix their shit
* T3sl4co1l nods
<Jobe> hell even irssi in GNU screen via ssh in PuTTY can see it fine :D
<T3sl4co1l> hmm, yes, i recognize these letters
<ServalSpots> I hope I will not be attacked with bludgeons, but I have some reservations about the pie-ssant
<T3sl4co1l> don't get croiss with me
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<jspiros> ServalSpots: I do too, to be fair
<jspiros> for me, sauce and crust /are/ the pizza
<jspiros> so, as a pizza, it's a travesty
<jspiros> and, as a croissant, it's also a travesty
<jspiros> but as a random frankenstein of pepperoni bread, cheesy bread, and a croissant...
<T3sl4co1l> you're a travestite
<jspiros> I'd surely eat a wedge
<jspiros> not sure if it'd be very good or not, though
<jspiros> I would be much chuffed if it came with a bowl of pizza-type sauce
* T3sl4co1l marinarates jspiros
<T3sl4co1l> (a traditional weekend bath for him, i think)
<jspiros> well, you know, people call that marinara, but often pizza places have multiple types of it
<jspiros> so I thought "pizza-type sauce" would more clearly define what I wanted
<T3sl4co1l> marinara per se isn't very interesting to me, annoying even
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<T3sl4co1l> but "pizza-type-sauceinates" doesn't pun
<jspiros> indeed
<mattinx> you need additional things
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* jspiros sprinkles mattinx with some basil and oregano
<jspiros> operating on the principle of "if you herb it, tomatoes will come"
<T3sl4co1l> mattinx: you must build additional pizzalons
<jspiros> construct!
<T3sl4co1l> *
<ServalSpots> jspiros: It's one of those things that I can't imagine I would ever get, but that I would certainly try a bite of.  I am assuming the dough is something more sensible than regular croissant pastry, and that they've foregone the butter layers completely
<T3sl4co1l> idunno, it looks pretty fluffy
<ServalSpots> Well rested and lots of gluton?
<T3sl4co1l> you're a gluten for PUNishment
<ServalSpots> Yes, that's it... I totally know how to spell, though >.>
<jspiros> it actually looks like phyllo to me
<ServalSpots> Plausibly so, and the olive oil would make sense in this application (over something like butter, anyway)
<mattinx> jspiros: there's fresh basil and oregano in the planter out back
<mattinx> and tomatoes on the counter
<jspiros> \o/
<T3sl4co1l> tomatoes are a firm counter to hunger and lack of flavor
<jspiros> at some point, I fully expect to have a greenhouse in my life
<mattinx> there's also a log of goat cheese in the fridge
<jspiros> "An issue affecting the physical host this Linode resides on has been detected." :(
<mattinx> time to replace it with a small piece of cheese
<T3sl4co1l> examine the goat log
<mattinx> You peer at the cheese, it appears to be sealed in plastic and dated late september
<T3sl4co1l> use knife on log
<mattinx> You try, but the knife just presses into the plastic, squashing the cheese
<T3sl4co1l> sharpen knife
<mattinx> Sorry?
<T3sl4co1l> use sharpening stone on knife
<mattinx> You don't have that
<T3sl4co1l> >_>
<T3sl4co1l> open fridge door
<mattinx> It's already open
<T3sl4co1l> leave kitchen in frustration
<T3sl4co1l> ha, now your electricity bill goes up! :P
<mattinx> As you leave the kitchen, you hear a beeping coming from the fridge. You are now in the hallway. It is dark.
<T3sl4co1l> walk east
<mattinx> You have been eaten by a grue
<T3sl4co1l> :D
* Laogeobunny nibbles on the grue
<Jobe> dont eat glue
<T3sl4co1l> it's a japanese grue?
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<jspiros> fuck, the power just went out