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- OmegaCalabi: I'm not disagreeing with you, but the way I look at it.
- OmegaCalabi: It's not limited to religion
- OmegaCalabi: faith-based thinking exists as a product of the human mind
- OmegaCalabi: and things beside religion take advantage of it too
- InfernapeTropius11: true enough
- InfernapeTropius11: religion is just the most obvious example
- OmegaCalabi: word
- InfernapeTropius11: i especially love the part where there is no proof god(s) exist and anyone who says theyve seen god(s) is branded as stark raving mad even by religious people
- OmegaCalabi: that's gotta say something right? haha
- OmegaCalabi: and the best evidence that exists is, "look at nature, how can there not be a God"
- OmegaCalabi: when literally nothing about that statement implies anything about God
- InfernapeTropius11: ikr
- InfernapeTropius11: idk why its 2016 tho
- InfernapeTropius11: i mean
- InfernapeTropius11: imma go with the romans thought they were great and started from zero
- InfernapeTropius11: or whoever was the dominant world force at that time i think it was the romans
- OmegaCalabi: I mean that would make sense if the romans started in year 0
- OmegaCalabi: we use that calendar system because the people in charge at the time had religious ideas
- InfernapeTropius11: how do u think they measured time bce
- InfernapeTropius11: i dont think they said "oh its 203 bce, next year will be 202 bce"
- InfernapeTropius11: lol
- OmegaCalabi: probably measured based on sun cycles but I dont think they had numbered years the same way we do
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah
- OmegaCalabi: I'm sure theirsense of history was on a much smaller scale
- OmegaCalabi: there isnt really a need to talk much farther back than a few generations
- OmegaCalabi: until you have empires
- OmegaCalabi: which in that case you date back to when such and such was ruler
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah
- OmegaCalabi: that being said, other cultures had calendar systems
- OmegaCalabi: but most of them started at year 0 when they MADE the calendar lol
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah lol
- InfernapeTropius11: the calendar year numbering system seems really arbitrary and flawed to me
- OmegaCalabi: for sure it is
- OmegaCalabi: the only one that makes "sense" is dating back to the T=0 at the big bang
- InfernapeTropius11: i mean if someone were to become the dominant world power
- OmegaCalabi: which holds no real relvance for daily lives of humans
- InfernapeTropius11: build an empire like rome
- InfernapeTropius11: and say this is year zero
- InfernapeTropius11: we would probs reset
- OmegaCalabi: Sure
- OmegaCalabi: It's the same argument for religion
- OmegaCalabi: if all of them were wiped out
- InfernapeTropius11: and yeah today is day 4,569,782,016
- InfernapeTropius11: no wait
- InfernapeTropius11: year that
- InfernapeTropius11: kek
- InfernapeTropius11: lmao
- OmegaCalabi: there would still be people claiming such and such supernatural events and doctrine
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah
- InfernapeTropius11: oooooh ufo
- OmegaCalabi: but none would be the same as the dogma that everyone before had
- OmegaCalabi: my argument everytime anyone tries to have me oooh and aaah at UFOs is to ask what the first word of UFO stands for
- OmegaCalabi: when someone can show me an AFO
- OmegaCalabi: I will flip out
- InfernapeTropius11: a?
- OmegaCalabi: alien
- InfernapeTropius11: ah
- InfernapeTropius11: unidentified flying object
- InfernapeTropius11: tbh
- InfernapeTropius11: but helicopter blades on a toy car
- InfernapeTropius11: its an unidentified flying object
- InfernapeTropius11: it has no name
- InfernapeTropius11: o3o
- OmegaCalabi: unindentified means you couldnt figure out what it was
- OmegaCalabi: and apparently to most people
- OmegaCalabi: that means aleins
- InfernapeTropius11: anything flying is a ufo
- InfernapeTropius11: t h
- InfernapeTropius11: tbh*
- InfernapeTropius11: lmao
- OmegaCalabi: well not anything
- OmegaCalabi: planes are planes
- InfernapeTropius11: are they tho
- InfernapeTropius11: what if thats what the aliens want us to think
- InfernapeTropius11: o-O
- OmegaCalabi: oh jesus
- OmegaCalabi: lol
- InfernapeTropius11: loooool
- OmegaCalabi: real talk tho
- OmegaCalabi: I've seen a UFO twice
- InfernapeTropius11: :0
- InfernapeTropius11: aliens exist obv
- OmegaCalabi: my girlfriend saw it wioth me once
- OmegaCalabi: I dont think it was aliens
- InfernapeTropius11: i mean
- OmegaCalabi: but it did things that made my brain literally think I was crazy
- InfernapeTropius11: have u heard of that one formula
- InfernapeTropius11: its like
- InfernapeTropius11: the probability of an alien reaching earth
- OmegaCalabi: I'm a super skeptical person but it was doing things I didnt think a plane should be able to do
- InfernapeTropius11: it has a bunch of factors
- InfernapeTropius11: the number of galaxies in the universe
- InfernapeTropius11: the number of solar systems within those galaxies
- OmegaCalabi: I'm sure there's lots of formulas to that effect, I dont which one you mean specifically, but do go on
- InfernapeTropius11: the number of planets in thos solar systems that can support life
- OmegaCalabi: that last factor is subject to much speculation though
- OmegaCalabi: when you had a data set of literally 1
- InfernapeTropius11: the odds of intelligent beings evolving into existence on said planets
- InfernapeTropius11: the probability that they are smart enough to travel through space to reach us
- InfernapeTropius11: and a couple other things iirc
- InfernapeTropius11: i saw this joke that added two more
- InfernapeTropius11: not part of the formula but should be
- InfernapeTropius11: "percentage that came here without us realizing"
- OmegaCalabi: yeah, to me the idea of galactic colonization is very human-centric, and plays into the view of how we colonized the planet
- InfernapeTropius11: and "odds that they give enough of a fuck to even come here"
- InfernapeTropius11: lol
- OmegaCalabi: I'm a transhumanist, as it's called
- OmegaCalabi: I dont think anything about the way the brain works is special
- InfernapeTropius11: when we only use, what, 5% of our brains
- InfernapeTropius11: i can understand that
- OmegaCalabi: that's a myth
- OmegaCalabi: we use all of our brain
- OmegaCalabi: not at one time obviously
- InfernapeTropius11: do we though
- OmegaCalabi: yes
- InfernapeTropius11: like technically
- OmegaCalabi: liek technically
- InfernapeTropius11: it could be argued that we use our whole brain
- InfernapeTropius11: but
- OmegaCalabi: not every neuron is activated at any given time
- InfernapeTropius11: if we have thr capacity to expand our brain
- InfernapeTropius11: are we really using all of it
- OmegaCalabi: if it were we would die from electrical over-activity
- InfernapeTropius11: loltru
- OmegaCalabi: and the inability for messages of actual relevance to propogate
- OmegaCalabi: in reality the brain is actually fairly effecient
- OmegaCalabi: in terms of computational capacity compared to power usage
- OmegaCalabi: imagine trying to run a silicon computer and have it do all the brain does on roughly 20 watts
- OmegaCalabi: a computer scientist would call you crazy
- InfernapeTropius11: true
- InfernapeTropius11: but if it is efficient for our needs
- InfernapeTropius11: but could potentially be more efficient/enlarged (not sure what the right term is)
- InfernapeTropius11: is that truly efficient
- OmegaCalabi: those refer to different things
- OmegaCalabi: could you be more specific so I can follow?
- InfernapeTropius11: i guess they kinda do
- OmegaCalabi: because larger brains arent smarter per se
- InfernapeTropius11: my philosophical question is like, if we need our brain to do something and it can do that
- InfernapeTropius11: does that make it efficient
- InfernapeTropius11: if it could potentially do a lot more
- InfernapeTropius11: but we just dont need it to
- InfernapeTropius11: or we havent figured out how to use it in such a way yet
- OmegaCalabi: our brain does what evolution has brought it about to do
- InfernapeTropius11: exactly
- OmegaCalabi: it is by no means the most effecient system
- OmegaCalabi: it exists because it allowed out ancestors to survive
- OmegaCalabi: there are many things which it cannot do
- OmegaCalabi: things we do not realize would be beneficial
- OmegaCalabi: things that fall under the unknown unknown category
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah thats my point--if it could do these things which we havent discovered yet does that mean the brain is inefficient because it cant do those things, despite it being able to fulfill our needs atm?
- OmegaCalabi: ineffecient depends on what your point of view
- OmegaCalabi: it depends on if you compare it to a seahorse or a singularity
- InfernapeTropius11: im thinking inefficient might actually be the wrong word tbh
- InfernapeTropius11: hmm
- OmegaCalabi: most things in life depend on your viewpoint tbh
- InfernapeTropius11: true
- OmegaCalabi: like I said, if you were more specific about what youre refering to, when you say effecient
- OmegaCalabi: I feel I would follow better
- OmegaCalabi: so often people use words
- InfernapeTropius11: i think im referring to what the brain has the potential to achieve
- OmegaCalabi: because they are symbols, but symbols exist in the brain
- OmegaCalabi: and often refer to different things to different people
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah i tend to think in symbols or even movement
- OmegaCalabi: sure, I would agree that on the entire scale of what is possible
- OmegaCalabi: the human brain exists at the bottom of the well
- InfernapeTropius11: tbh that's the entire form of facial recognition tbh--you remember shape and colour or w/e but can't always describe it
- InfernapeTropius11: and yeah i think that's what im getting at
- OmegaCalabi: because your thoughts often fail to match-up with the words the brain has available to express said thoughts
- InfernapeTropius11: exactly
- OmegaCalabi: on a personal note, I have asperger's, so that is something I have had to learn to deal with
- OmegaCalabi: more so than others
- OmegaCalabi: one thing I would point out however in terms of what the brain is "capable of"
- OmegaCalabi: is that our brain as it exists now
- OmegaCalabi: does nearly all of what it is capable of
- OmegaCalabi: when I talk about "possiblity space" I recognize that many of the more "complex" versions of the brain
- OmegaCalabi: do not necessarily resemble the brain as we understand it
- OmegaCalabi: interconnectivity, and communcation between networks lies at bottom of it
- OmegaCalabi: but the way the neurons work
- OmegaCalabi: or the glial cells between the brain
- OmegaCalabi: the types of neurotransmitters
- OmegaCalabi: these are all the result of evolution
- OmegaCalabi: they are by no means inherently the best
- OmegaCalabi: I hope that makes sense in reference to what you were expressing
- InfernapeTropius11: i think i understand what you're saying
- OmegaCalabi: well that's positive
- OmegaCalabi: I've usually lost most people by this point
- InfernapeTropius11: essentially your view is the brain rn is "efficient" because it does everything we need it to do; the brain doesn't have too much room to "grow" as there isn't much else it NEEDS to do
- InfernapeTropius11: but overall compared to what it COULD do, it is very lacking (our imagination can always outrun the limits of our brain lol)
- InfernapeTropius11: correct me if i misinterpreted something
- OmegaCalabi: 80% is right on, just a couple things I would specify
- InfernapeTropius11: i might have misinterpreted smth as i tried to summarize it lol
- OmegaCalabi: The brain doesnt do everything we need to
- OmegaCalabi: and as far as the brain "growing" that has never been the result of what would ideally be the best
- OmegaCalabi: it has been the result of what *hasn't* been eliminated
- InfernapeTropius11: that resulted out of need theough evolution, not a desire for the best possible way to accomplish the task?
- OmegaCalabi: that last point is right on
- OmegaCalabi: we are however at the point where artificial selection will quickly overtake the entire history of natural selection in the timeframe of a few generations
- OmegaCalabi: which leaves in a remrkable time and place to be alive currently
- InfernapeTropius11: so the brain does most of what we need it to, and what it doesn't do we haven't relized we need it to do that yet, and it isnt the best it could be
- InfernapeTropius11: true
- OmegaCalabi: yes, the brain as it exists now does most of the things in 2 of the 4 categories of knowledge
- OmegaCalabi: and provides insight one the 3rd
- OmegaCalabi: *on
- InfernapeTropius11: im not saying anything against those with disabilities or whatever, but natural selection would not allow these people to survive (theoretically)
- OmegaCalabi: yeah, I'm not a eugenist, I agree to an extent.
- InfernapeTropius11: but because of morals and equal rights for all etc. (which i dont condemn and am in fact in favour of) they get to survive distributing their "bad" genes
- OmegaCalabi: Most likely natural selection would allow such individuals to continue
- OmegaCalabi: because the level of complexity it takes to procreate and find food
- OmegaCalabi: is far below the level we seek to achieve
- OmegaCalabi: I don't think that having a policy of eugenics or breeding programs would result in a society that most people want to live in
- InfernapeTropius11: i'm afraid you may have lost me there--are you saying that it is easy to survive even with such negative factors, meaning that these disabled people would survive anyway?
- InfernapeTropius11: true, everyone being the same is no fun
- InfernapeTropius11: idk about you but im having fun having this convo haha and if we were the same we wouldnt be having it
- OmegaCalabi: most "disabled" people are not so impaired that they cannot maintain the basics of survival and procreation
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah
- OmegaCalabi: Yes, quite. I do enjoy this conversation this far
- OmegaCalabi: natural selection is an EXTREMELY rudimentary process
- OmegaCalabi: eliminating only the MOST detrimental hinderances through death
- OmegaCalabi: most neutral and even negative characteristics continue
- OmegaCalabi: because they are not negative ENOUGH to be deadly
- OmegaCalabi: and often times positive traits are selected against through sheer chance
- OmegaCalabi: they only work "towards" something on HUGE timescales
- InfernapeTropius11: i agree yeah
- InfernapeTropius11: it would take a long time and a lot of luck to achieve a race of "perfect" humans
- InfernapeTropius11: or any species
- OmegaCalabi: perfect human is an oxymoron haha
- InfernapeTropius11: lmao
- OmegaCalabi: by the time we achieve what we believe to be perfection
- OmegaCalabi: it's my opinion that we will be nothing like human
- OmegaCalabi: the biology that fails us
- OmegaCalabi: that DNA that exists mostly as turned off sequences
- OmegaCalabi: the brain that fails to inform us of what really matters
- OmegaCalabi: these are things that will seem ancient and harmful in the future
- InfernapeTropius11: true
- OmegaCalabi: I just want to bring it up again, because I find it particularly interesting
- OmegaCalabi: are you familiar with the 4 "categories of knowledge"?
- InfernapeTropius11: just like we view our distant ancestors as ancient, simple, and inefficient beings compared to humans today
- OmegaCalabi: exactly
- OmegaCalabi: if a cro-magnon was walking the streets of an urban city, he would be unanimously viewed at lacking in the key qualities that make humans "human"
- OmegaCalabi: but as we become more advanced, and change more and more about what it is to be "human"
- OmegaCalabi: I doubt that's how the "people" of the future will choose to identify themselves
- InfernapeTropius11: well they might still identify as humans
- InfernapeTropius11: but they might view us as nothumans
- OmegaCalabi: I don't know, it depends on how different they are.
- InfernapeTropius11: like we compare our human ancestors to chimps cuz they werent very far diverged
- OmegaCalabi: I feel as if the qualities and biology we have are "human"
- OmegaCalabi: and as the average becomes far different, human will be the cro-magnon of tomorrow
- InfernapeTropius11: we might be viewed as having the intelligence of some other species in this future world lol
- OmegaCalabi: again human is just a word
- InfernapeTropius11: true
- OmegaCalabi: all I'm saying is that the people wont consider themselves like humans of today
- OmegaCalabi: and since it's such a widespread word
- OmegaCalabi: I think they will choose a different one
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah i can see that
- InfernapeTropius11: btw when we're done chatting would you mind copying this into a pastebin and giving me the link? i'd like to keep this convo for future reference if you don't mind as you've opened my mind to some new views haha
- OmegaCalabi: Sure, do you not have the capability of doing so yourself?
- OmegaCalabi: I don't mind at all tho
- InfernapeTropius11: nah im on tablet atm i cant copy stuff from chatrooms/pms, only what i type up, and only before i send it
- OmegaCalabi: And I'm curious, if you don't mind sharing, what views I made new to you.
- OmegaCalabi: I was worried that copy and pasting would make it look like shit, but it keeps the same format lol
- OmegaCalabi: so allgood, just let me know what point you'd like me to archive it
- InfernapeTropius11: mostly new information, the one about how the brain knows everything it needs to right now but isnt the most efficient way possible of existing (i know i worded that awkwardly ;-;)
- OmegaCalabi: just in case something happens to my computer I'm saving at is it is now.
- InfernapeTropius11: k cool, ty
- OmegaCalabi: I understand what you mean, I'm not the judgmental type
- OmegaCalabi: My language when I'm actually talking is pretty similar to how I talk when typing
- OmegaCalabi: the only difference is the pauses I take to tink of a given word don't show up
- OmegaCalabi: and my vocabulary choice often leads people to furow their eyebrowsat me
- OmegaCalabi: all that is to say, don't be worried about how you perceive yourself to sound
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah, i generally try to not use "big words" especially online cuz ive had that happen to me too
- OmegaCalabi: all I care about is understanding the message you intend to extend, and whether I feel I understand it accurately
- InfernapeTropius11: ppl are like "huh" and that ruins any chance at a decent convo
- InfernapeTropius11: same tbh
- OmegaCalabi: in my view human language is complex enough for me to want to use the words that accurately describe what I mean
- OmegaCalabi: Instead of using 6 words, when 1 would suffice
- OmegaCalabi: http://pastebin.com/3pYntqvM
- OmegaCalabi: just in case
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah its just a struggle when you know that one obscure word
- InfernapeTropius11: and noone else does
- InfernapeTropius11: lmao
- OmegaCalabi: Exactly oras I often do, it's on the tip of my tongue
- OmegaCalabi: And I know I could express it otherwise
- OmegaCalabi: but I just want to say it, the way I wanto say it
- InfernapeTropius11: the thing i hate the most
- OmegaCalabi: is Donald Trump
- OmegaCalabi: lol jk
- InfernapeTropius11: is when i could describe it in a roundabout way taking 6 sentences that confuses people, but i know there is a word that could express my point clearly in like one sentence and i cant remember the word
- OmegaCalabi: human language is a fickle thing
- InfernapeTropius11: or i have it in my head as a sort of abstract piece of information and dont know how to convey that
- OmegaCalabi: barely able to express the depth of the human psyche
- InfernapeTropius11: and yeah haha i despise trump i think its retarded that he's been able to get this far
- OmegaCalabi: I honestly thought it was a joke at the beginning
- InfernapeTropius11: it was
- OmegaCalabi: but I've stopped laughing
- InfernapeTropius11: his goal was to get top 3 in the republican race
- InfernapeTropius11: to publicize his business
- InfernapeTropius11: it was literally a publicity stunt, he only "got serious" after he started winning
- OmegaCalabi: yeah, well I know how I'm voting for
- OmegaCalabi: write in "Anyone but Trunp"
- InfernapeTropius11: the democrat?
- InfernapeTropius11: lol so tru
- OmegaCalabi: I despise Hillary
- InfernapeTropius11: some ppl say cruz is worse
- OmegaCalabi: I think she's a war criminal, but Trump is worse
- InfernapeTropius11: he's radical too, trump is just more radical or more opposite radical--he changes his mind hourly
- InfernapeTropius11: trump afvocated a war crime
- InfernapeTropius11: he was interviewed live
- OmegaCalabi: I'm from Texas, I know EXACTLY how far Ted Cruz differs from my viewpoint
- InfernapeTropius11: and he said the us has to target the families of ISIS militants
- InfernapeTropius11: at least u kinda know where cruz stands even if u dont like it
- InfernapeTropius11: with trump he could be agreeing with you, super left of you, or super right of you, and his stance changes very often
- OmegaCalabi: probably changes depending on what room he's in
- InfernapeTropius11: oml
- InfernapeTropius11: he said
- InfernapeTropius11: his net worth
- InfernapeTropius11: fluctuates
- InfernapeTropius11: depending on HIS MOOD
- InfernapeTropius11: so if he's in a good mood, hey, he's worth 3 billion dollars more
- OmegaCalabi: That doesnt surprise me, coming from someone who's filed bakruptcy 4 times
- InfernapeTropius11: he values the name "trump" by itself at $3 billion
- InfernapeTropius11: ikr
- OmegaCalabi: What are your views on colonizing other planets?
- OmegaCalabi: I'm just curious
- InfernapeTropius11: i think that colonization of other planets is interesting
- InfernapeTropius11: but unfeasible atm for a few reasons
- OmegaCalabi: I agree
- InfernapeTropius11: mainly we have no good planets to colonize that we can reach, the only good ones are too far away to be able to colonize with current technologies (apparently there is a planet almost exactly like earth but twice as large)
- InfernapeTropius11: unfortunately we have to put more than curious idle research into this though
- OmegaCalabi: okay, one thing I'd metnion about the "near-earth" planets
- InfernapeTropius11: because we're ruining this planet
- OmegaCalabi: is that in actuality we know SO LITTLE about them, we have no way of saying whether they are earth like
- OmegaCalabi: all we can say is their atmospheres have similar spectra
- OmegaCalabi: and their size and temperature
- InfernapeTropius11: well by close
- InfernapeTropius11: i mean within our solar system
- InfernapeTropius11: and able to be reached within a few years max
- OmegaCalabi: I know, I was talking about exoplanets
- InfernapeTropius11: by that i really mean Mars lol
- OmegaCalabi: the "too far away ones"
- OmegaCalabi: Mars or Cloud cities on venus
- InfernapeTropius11: unfortunately its atmosphere isnt suitable for humans iirc
- User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
- User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
- User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
- User InfernapeTropius11 is offline.
- InfernapeTropius11: hello
- InfernapeTropius11: rly sry, my ipad died
- InfernapeTropius11: ;-;
- OmegaCalabi: It's all good
- InfernapeTropius11: i think i was about to say venus doesnt work cuz its too close to the sun
- OmegaCalabi: The SURFACE of venus doesnt work
- InfernapeTropius11: mars cuz the atmosphere is wrong otherwise it looks possible
- InfernapeTropius11: anything beyond mars is either gaseous or too cold tbh
- InfernapeTropius11: hmm
- OmegaCalabi: but there exists a layer of atmosphere about 50-60 (km?) up that has earth like temperatures and pressure
- InfernapeTropius11: but if we could inhabit the clouds
- InfernapeTropius11: why wouldnt we do that on earth
- InfernapeTropius11: or does it only work on aphrodite
- InfernapeTropius11: :-)
- OmegaCalabi: lol, well the pressure of our atmosphere higher up is not 1 atmosphere
- OmegaCalabi: I'm not saying it's the best idea
- OmegaCalabi: just a few people have put it out there recently and I think it's interesting
- OmegaCalabi: in my view, the human body can't exist for a lifetime outside of earth conditions
- OmegaCalabi: we are too adapted to it
- InfernapeTropius11: yeah
- OmegaCalabi: hell we can't live in space for a year without huge health defects
- InfernapeTropius11: unless ur specially trained right
- OmegaCalabi: even astronauts how often do as much or more physical excercise than athletes still face huge problems
- OmegaCalabi: the withering of bones
- OmegaCalabi: circulation problems
- InfernapeTropius11: true.
- OmegaCalabi: eye malfunctions
- InfernapeTropius11: zero gravity cant be good on a body adapted to gravity
- OmegaCalabi: and not just excercise, everything about the way astronauts live on the ISS
- OmegaCalabi: is an attempt to counteract not having gravity
- OmegaCalabi: and it still takes a huge toll
- InfernapeTropius11: tbh i bet it would be difficult to adapt to a planet with a gravity of 10
- OmegaCalabi: it's hard to imagine a colony of lazy humans performing the same way trained astronauts would
- InfernapeTropius11: even tho ours is 9.81 the extra pressure would be great
- OmegaCalabi: a gravity of 10?
- InfernapeTropius11: like
- OmegaCalabi: m/s2?
- InfernapeTropius11: gravitational force or w/e its called
- OmegaCalabi: yeah, I didnt know exactly what you meant til I saw 9.81
- OmegaCalabi: Idk, it's hard to say
- OmegaCalabi: the other huge problem about living in space is radiation
- OmegaCalabi: that's the other things about venus that makes it possibly better than mars
- OmegaCalabi: it has way more protection from the sun and cosmic rays
- OmegaCalabi: which reak havoc on DNA
- InfernapeTropius11: true
- OmegaCalabi: leading to huge cancer rates
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