Latin from CAF posts ARCHIVE

> There are two types of will, active and permissive, for God.
In “Milk food Theology,” God has permissive will, which means, our whims is our governor.
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In “Solid food Theology” God has Active/ Supernatural will. It means, God is at work in all the actions of His creatures and His call to eternal life coming TOTALLY from His decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.

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1 Cor.3:2; I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.
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As we see above, there are two Theology, “Milk food Theology” for the novice Christians and “Solid food Theology” for the theologically educated Christians. – For novice Christians, until they grow up in theological knowledge, “Solid food Theology” is not palatable for them.

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EXAMPLES OF “Milk food Theology:”

CCC1743 God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel (cf. Sir 15:14), so that he might of his own accord seek his creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him" ( GS 17 § 1).
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According to “Milk food Theology”, God is not our ruler, we are our own ruler because by our whims we are anytime able to override the will of God. So, we are our own god and naturally follows, we are responsible for our salvation or our damnation.

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EXAMPLES OF “Solid food Theology:” – In “Solid food Theology” God causes every act of His creatures. This is the key to understand our Catholic Theology.
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CCC 301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.
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CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.
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CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.

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Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation
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As we see @utpurl, total contradictions between the “Milk food Theology” of CCC 1743 and between the “Solid food Theology” of CCC 301, CCC 307, CCC 308, etc.
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The two Theology is in total contradiction with each other.
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Continue

EXCERPTS FROM “Solid food Theology.”

For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate. "
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)

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CCC 2022; The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
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CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”,

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things. He loves all men, desires the salvation of all, and His providence extends to all nation.

Again, from the fact that God has created the universe, it shows that He must also govern it; for just as the contrivances of man demand attention and guidance, so God, as a good workman, must care for His work.

God acts through secondary causes, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him ; efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence
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God bless


> … who proposed this distinction?

1 Cor.3:2 contains both “Milk food Theology” and “Solid food Theology,” we don’t even need too much theological knowledge or God’s gift of logic to see it.

1 Cor.3:2; I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.

1 Cor.3:2; I fed you with milk (tech you “Milk food Theology”) and not with solid food; (cannot yet teach you “Solid food Theology”) for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.

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EXAMPLE OF “Milk food Theology:”

CCC1743 God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel (cf. Sir 15:14), so that he might of his own accord seek his creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him" ( GS 17 § 1).
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CONCLUSION
According to “Milk food Theology,” God is not our ruler, we are our own ruler because by our whims we are anytime able to override the will of God. So, we are our own god and naturally follows, we are responsible for our salvation or our damnation.

.
EXAMPLES OF “Solid food Theology:” – In “Solid food Theology” God causes every act of His creatures. This is the key to understand our Catholic “Solid food Theology.”
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CCC 301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.
.
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.
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CONCLUSION
Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation. – Naturally follows, God is responsible for our salvation.
.
As we see above, there are two Theology, “Milk food Theology” for the novice Christians and “Solid food Theology” for the theologically educated Christians. – For novice Christians, until they grow up in theological knowledge, “Solid food Theology” is not palatable for them.
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God bless


> One of the many things I have not had satisfactorily answered on CAF is how a loving God could impose pain and suffering on animals as a result of original sins with no countervailing prospect of eternal life.
>> To bring a greater good out of it.
>>> For the animals as well, or only for us humans? If only the latter, this seems to me so selfish.

God Designed, Decreed, Preordained from all eternity every event, that happen, or will happen, in the universe.

God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.

CCC 390 The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, …

Figurative
[fɪɡ(ə)rətɪv]
departing from a literal use of words; “a figurative expression”
nonliteral, symbolic, allegorical, imaginative, etc.

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THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION By John Salza (Catholic theologian).
Page 113; God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin.
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CCC 313; Nothing can come but that that God wills.

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Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”
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If God would willed, He would create all of us like He created Mary, with the privilege of immunity from sin and in this world would be no one commit even a single act of sin.
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CCC 310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin. – God created the dramas of evil and sin for our benefit.

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THE REASON GOD CREATED THE DRAMAS OF EVIL AND SIN.

Life without suffering would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.

Our struggle and tribulation while journeying towards our ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin is the cost which in-prints the virtue/ nobility into our souls – the cost of our road to nobility and perfection.

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii, xv in “P.L., VII. St. Augustine “De ordine”, I, vii, n. 18 in “P.L.”, XXXII, 986).
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As we see above, we are all sinners because God willed to create us to be sinners for good reason, for the benefit of the entire human race.

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;

“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”

Continue

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).

This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).

It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4, Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).

It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).

All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i, v, vi, xv, xvi;).

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things. He loves all men, desires the salvation of all, and His providence extends to all nation.

Again, from the fact that God has created the universe, it shows that He must also govern it; for just as the contrivances of man demand attention and guidance, so God, as a good workman, must care for His work.

God acts through secondary causes, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him ; efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence

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CCC 324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
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CCC 313; St.Thomas More, shortly before his martyrdom, consoled his daughter: “Nothing can come but that that God wills. And I make me very sure that whatsoever that be, seem it never so bad in sight, it shall indeed be the best.” 182

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.
.
God bless


>I want to ask - a) was the fall and the need for salvation always part of God’s plan when creating the universe?

THE ANSWER IS YES

THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION By John Salza (Catholic theologian.)

Page 113; God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin.

CCC 313; … Nothing can come but that that God wills.

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.

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St. Thomas explains THE CHAIN OF CAUSALITY

“It is to be observed that where there are several agents in order, the second always acts in virtue of the first: for the agent moves the second to act.

Because God is the cause of action in every agent, even man’s free will determination comes from God.

And thus all agents act in virtue of God Himself: and therefore He is the cause of action in every agent. ST, Pt I, Q 105, Art 5.”

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CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.
.
Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation.

.
For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate. "
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)
.
CCC 2022; The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
.
God bless


> We need to be saved from ourselves, our egoism and our sinful passions.
I agree with you @Mmarco, in general we are all egoists and we all have sinful passions.

The heart of the question is:
How we get our egoism and our sinful passions?

Of course we all need to be saved from them and only God can save us from our egoism and our sinful passions.

God bless


> They are a consequence of our nature of finite creatures; we do not own in ourselves the essence of life and goodness; we can only receive true love and true goodness as a gift from the only Being who owns life and goodness in Himself. I think that your question coud be rephrased a follows: why God has not created me as a better person than I am? My answer is : God has created people who are better than me, but those people are not me and God has chosen to create ALSO me. However, this is not the end of the story; in fact, through God’s grace we can become a better person, we can become a saint.

Thanks you for your answer @Mmarco, I like it, nicely written answer, only flaw in it you answered my rephrased question and that question wasn’t my question any longer.
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This is my question: How we get our egoism and our sinful passions?

I answer it according to the Scripture and Catholic Theology.
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THERE IS NOTHING IN US WHAT GOD DID NOT INFUSE INTO US

1 Cor.4:7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

As we see above @Mmarco, as egoism and our sinful passions are in us/ part of us, this is only way possible that God at our creation willfully infused into us for our benefit.

An omniscient and all loving God does nothing without love and our benefit.

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AS FOLLOWS, WE UNDERSTAND AND WE WILL SEE GOD’S GOOD REASON THAT AT OUR CREATION, HE IS WILLFULLY INFUSED INTO US EGOISM AND OUR SINFUL PASSIONS FOR OUR BENEFIT.

God designed, decreed, preordained from all eternity and directs every our evil act, for the reason to convert them into greater good.
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Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”
.
If God would willed, He would create all of us like He created Mary, with the privilege of immunity from sin and in this world would be no one commit even a single act of sin.
.
CCC 310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin. – God created the dramas of evil and sin for our benefit.

.
THE REASON GOD CREATED THE DRAMAS OF EVIL AND SIN.

Life without suffering would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.

Our struggle and tribulation while journeying towards our ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin is the cost which in-prints the virtue/ nobility into our souls – the cost of our road to nobility and perfection.

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii, xv in “P.L., VII. St. Augustine “De ordine”, I, vii, n. 18 in “P.L.”, XXXII, 986).
.
As we see above, we are all sinners because God willed to create us to be sinners for good reason, for the benefit of the entire human race.

.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;

“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”

Continue
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).

This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).

It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).

It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).

All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i, v, vi, xv, xvi;).

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things. He loves all men, desires the salvation of all, and His providence extends to all nation.

Again, from the fact that God has created the universe, it shows that He must also govern it; for just as the contrivances of man demand attention and guidance, so God, as a good workman, must care for His work.

God acts through secondary causes, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him ; efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence

.
CCC 324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
.
CCC 313; St.Thomas More, shortly before his martyrdom, consoled his daughter: “Nothing can come but that that God wills. And I make me very sure that whatsoever that be, seem it never so bad in sight, it shall indeed be the best.” 182

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.
.
God bless

>I disagree with you interpretation of 1 Cor 4:7. In fact Paul refers explicitly only to good qualities since he says “why do you boast …?” Egoism and sinful passions are not something we boast about.

@Mmarco, you disagree with my interpretation of 1 Cor. 4:7 because seems to me, you are disagree with Catholic theology teaching the same subject.

a. For who makes you different from anyone else? – Correct answer: The way God created us, makes us different from anyone else.

b. What do you have that you did not receive? – Correct answer: We have absolutely nothing what we did not receive from God.
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Of course, egoism and sinful passions are not something we boast about, newer the less, the teachings of Catholic Theology as follows proven, at our creation God willfully infused into us egoism and sinful passions for our benefit.
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If God would willed, He would create all of us like He created Mary, with the privilege of immunity from sin and in this world would be no one commit even a single act of sin.
.
CCC 310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin. – God created the dramas of evil and sin for our benefit.
.
For our benefit, with infinite wisdom and goodness, at our creation God willfully infused into us egoism and sinful passions.

Furthermore: His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).

It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).

It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).

All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i, v, vi, xv, xvi;).

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Continue
Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things. He loves all men, desires the salvation of all, and His providence extends to all nation.

Again, from the fact that God has created the universe, it shows that He must also govern it; for just as the contrivances of man demand attention and guidance, so God, as a good workman, must care for His work.

God acts through secondary causes, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him ; efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence

.
CCC 324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
.
CCC 313; St.Thomas More, shortly before his martyrdom, consoled his daughter: “Nothing can come but that that God wills. And I make me very sure that whatsoever that be, seem it never so bad in sight, it shall indeed be the best.” 182

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.
.
At our creation God willfully infused into us egoism and sinful passions for our benefit, which is; He converts every our act of sin into greater good.

Furthermore: As God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen in the universe, naturally follows; from all eternity, God designed, decreed, foreordained, tailor made for all of us and causes every our act trough-out all our life until we die.
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With other words: God designed, decreed, preordained from all eternity and directs every act of the movie of our life from our birth until the day we die, includes our last act.
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So, who is going to hell???
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God bless

> Evil and sin are not created entities, they are only a consequence of our free choices.

Evil and sin exists in the world.

exist
[ɪɡˈzɪstɛɡˈzɪst]

synonyms:
be in existence …
.
If something exists, must be created and must have a creator.

Do you mean @Mmarco, our free choices are the causer/ creator of evil and sins in the world?

Thank you for your answer in advance.

God bless

>We are the cause of our own sins.

Yes, in “Milk food Theology;” We are the cause of our sins.

In “Solid food Theology;” God acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities, He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
.
1 Cor.3:2; I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.
.
As we see above, there are two Theology, “Milk food Theology” for the novice Christians and “Solid food Theology” for the theologically educated Christians. – For novice Christians, until they grow up in theological knowledge, “Solid food Theology” is not palatable for them.

.
EXAMPLE OF “Milk food Theology:”

CCC 1733 … The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to “the slavery of sin.”

According to “Milk food Theology”, God is not our ruler, we are our own ruler because by our whims we are anytime able to override the will of God. So, we are our own god and naturally follows, we are responsible for our salvation or our damnation.

.
EXAMPLES OF “Solid food Theology:” – No abuse of freedom in “Solid food Theology.”

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott.

The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with Sanctifying grace, (De fide dogma).
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma). – There is no disobedience/ abuse of freedom in “Solid food Theology,” (CCC 307, CCC 308, CCC 313, etc.).
.
Fallen man cannot redeem himself, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility to save ALL OF US.
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Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility TO KEEP US SAVED by His gift of grace of Final Perseverance.
.
CCC 2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance. – Gives Infallible protection of the salvation of EVERY RECEIVER, there is no salvation without it.
Infallible teachings of the Trent and formal teachings of the Catholic Church. Another proof, God is responsible for the salvation of the entire human race.
.
CCC 308 For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”

Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. – No abuse of freedom in “Solid food Theology.”
.
As we see above, in “Solid food Theology” our whims is not our god, God is our God, He is the one working in us both to will and to work for his good pleasure, He is responsible for the salvation of the entire human race.

Continue
LET’S SEE MORE EXAMPLES OF “Solid food Theology:”
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;

“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”

.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil He converts into good (Genesis 1:20; cf. Psalm 90:10); and suffering He uses as an instrument whereby to train men up as a father traineth up his children (Deuteronomy 8:1-6; Psalm 65:2-10;

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and eternal happiness in God.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence
.
CCC 313; St.Thomas More, shortly before his martyrdom, consoled his daughter: “Nothing can come but that that God wills. And I make me very sure that whatsoever that be, seem it never so bad in sight, it shall indeed be the best.” 182

As we see above according to “Solid food Theology:” Nothing can come but that that God wills, God acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities and He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

.
For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate."
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)
.
St. Thomas (C. G., II, xxviii) if God’s purpose were made dependent on the foreseen free act of any creature, God would thereby sacrifice His own freedom, and would submit Himself to His creatures, thus abdicating His essential supremacy a thing which is, of course, utterly inconceivable.
.
If someone recognize from miles that a teaching or theory is part of the “Milk food Theology” or it is part of the “Solid food Theology,” he or she has a good theological knowledge.
.
God bless

>… you quote a lot of verses out of their context and you do not understand their meaning.
1 Cor.3:2; I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.
.
As we see above, there are two Theology, “Milk food Theology” for the novice Christians and “Solid food Theology” for the theologically educated Christians. – For novice Christians, until they grow up in theological knowledge, “Solid food Theology” is not palatable for them.

EXAMPLES OF “Milk food Theology:”

CCC 1733 … The choice to disobey and do evil is an abuse of freedom and leads to “the slavery of sin.”

CCC1743 “God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel (cf. Sir 15:14), so that he might of his own accord seek his creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him” ( GS 17 § 1).

According to “Milk food Theology”, God is not our ruler, we are our own ruler because by our whims we are anytime able to override the will of God. So, we are our own god and naturally follows, we are responsible for our salvation or our damnation.

.
EXAMPLES OF “Solid food Theology:” – No abuse of freedom in “Solid food Theology.”

CCC 301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence. – Exact opposite of CCC 1733 and CCC 1743.

CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it. – Exact opposite of CCC 1733 and CCC 1743.

.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom. – Exact opposite of CCC 1733 and CCC 1743.
.
Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation
.
As we see @Mmarco, total contradictions between the “Milk food Theology” of CCC 1733, CCC 1743 and between the “Solid food Theology” of CCC 301, CCC 307, CCC 308.
.
The two Theology is in total contradiction with each other, no one can believe both at the same time.

Continue
LET’S SEE ANOTHER EGZAMPLE

EXAMPLE OF “Milk food Theology.”
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CCC 1037 God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:

.
EXAMPLES OF “Solid food Theology:”

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott;

Fallen man cannot redeem himself, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility to save ALL OF US.
.
Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility TO KEEP US SAVED by His gift of grace of Final Perseverance.
.
CCC 2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance. – Gives Infallible protection of the salvation of EVERY RECEIVER, there is no salvation without it. Infallible teachings of the Trent and formal teachings of the Catholic Church. This is another proof that God is responsible off the salvation of the entire human race.

.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH EXPLAINS THE WAY GOD SAVES US

CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
… None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works merit the grace itself of justification.
.
“One is saved the moment one is initially justified.” James Akin.
He is director of apologetics and evangelism in the Catholic Answers.
.
As we see above: God created us without our consent, He justified/ saved us without our consent, we can call it: God’s Love, Justice and His Duty of care.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.
This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”
.
Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation.
.
As we see above, CCC 2016 , COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8, CCCS 1996-1998; “Solid food Theology” totally demolished CCC 1037 part of “Milk food Theology.” – So, who can die in mortal sin? The correct answer is, no one.
.
I’m a Roman Catholic, I also know, in Catholic Theology our fate/ destiny is not in us, it is in God.
.
I have 100 % faith in God for my salvation, I doing my best and I have zero % fear that I will die in mortal sin.
.
As we see above @Mmarco, our destiny is not in us, it is in God.
.
God bless


>The question is, from where does your desire come from in the first place?

Good question @aitapyh. The answer of the Catholic Church.

The Father William Most Collection
St. Augustine on Grace and Predestination

I.(1) On human interaction with grace: Every good work, even good will, is the work of God.
.
De gratia Christi 25, 26: “For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it”
.
De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32: “It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act , providing most effective powers to the will.”
.
Ibid. 6. 15: “If then your merits are God’s gifts, God does not crown your merits as your merits, but as His gifts.”
.
Ep. 154, 5. 16: “What then is the merit of man before grace by which merit he should receive grace? Since only grace makes every good merit of ours, and when God crowns our merits, He crowns nothing else but His own gifts.”
.
St. Augustine is called, rightly, the Doctor of Grace, for his great work. Augustine showed very well our total dependence on God. – John 15:5 … without me you can do nothing.

.
Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
.
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.

God preserves the universe in being; He himself operates in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

So, without even realize it, we all freely will what God wills us to will and we all freely do what God wills and causes us to do.

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.
.
There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
.
CCC 2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
.
God bless


THIS IS AS FOLLOWS THE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON OUR SO CALLED FREE WILL

The Council of Sens (1140) condemned the idea that free will is sufficient in itself for any good. Donez., 373.

Council of Orange (529)
In canon 20, entitled hat Without God Man Can Do No Good. . . Denz., 193; quoting St. Prosper.

In canon 22, says, “ No one has anything of his own except lying and sin. Denz., 194; quoting St. Prosper.
.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;
Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).

.
GOD AIDES OUR FREE WILL AS FOLLOWS

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott;

Fallen man cannot redeem himself, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility to save ALL OF US.
.
Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility TO KEEP US SAVED by His gift of grace of Final Perseverance.

.
A TIPTOE THROUGH TULIP James akin

The Church formally teaches that there is a gift of final perseverance. [43]

Trent’s Decree of Justification, canon 16, speaks of “that great and special gift of final perseverance,” and chapter 13 of the decree speaks of “the gift of perseverance of which it is written: ‘He who perseveres to the end shall be saved [Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13] which cannot be obtained from anyone except from him who is able to make him who stands to stand [Rom. 14:4]”
.
CCC 2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance. – Gives Infallible protection of the salvation of EVERY RECEIVER, there is no salvation without it. Infallible teachings of the Trent and formal teachings of the Catholic Church.

.
COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
. . . None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works - merit the grace itself of justification.
.
CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.
This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”
.
John 6:44; No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
.
St. Thomas teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.
.
God bless

I believe we are all FREE, God does not force us, as described below:

Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
.
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.

God preserves the universe in being; He himself operates in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

So, without even realize it, we all FREELY WILL what God wills us to will and we all FREELY do what God wills and causes us to do.

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.
.
There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the FREE ACT OF THE WILL, (De fide dogma).
.
CCC 2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the FREE RESPONSE of man.

I believe we are all free as described above: Without even realize it, we all FREELY WILL what God wills us to will and we all FREELY DO what God wills and causes us to do.
.
God bless


>Any choice we make is all be part of God’s plan… because He is always in control. Thank God.

You are correct @annad347, Catholic theology proves it.
.
Please @annad347, consider you are an architect.

You designed a building, you designed every event down to its minutest details which need to take place to complete your building.

You give the builders your building design, which contains every event/ act down to its minutest details.

Your Designed, Decreed, Foreordained Plan causes every event/ act down to its minutest details which need to take place to complete your building.

Your building design creates/causes the builders their DETERMINED WILL and their DETERMINED ACTIONS which determined actions you tailor made everyone of your builders which need to perform to complete your building.

.
GOD DESIGNED THE UNIVERSE AND WE ARE HIS BUILDERS – CCC 307, CCC 308, etc.

God designed the universe includes this world, He Designed, Decreed, Foreordained and He causes every event/ act according to His design down to its minutest details.

As we are God’s fellow workers" and co-workers for his kingdom, God’s building design creates/causes us our DETERMINED WILL and our DETERMINED ACTIONS which determined actions God tailor made every-one of us from all eternity, which acts we need to perform to complete God’s kingdom.

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
.
Without even knowing, we are all God’s builders, every choice we make, every act we perform, tailor made to each one of us, and Designed, Decreed, Foreordained by God from all eternity and He causes us to FREELY perform in order to complete the work of His creation.

.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;
“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”

.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.,”

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence
.
Because God work’s in us and He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation.
.
No one can go to hell for an act God orders us to perform. – Without God we can do nothing, not even a smallest act of sin.
.
God bless

THIS IS THE WAY THE HUMAN MIND WORKS

St. Thomas explains THE CHAIN OF CAUSALITY

“It is to be observed that where there are several agents in order, the second always acts in virtue of the first: for the agent moves the second to act.

Because God is the cause of action in every agent, even man’s free will determination comes from God.

And thus all agents act in virtue of God Himself: and therefore He is the cause of action in every agent. ST, Pt I, Q 105, Art 5.”

.
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.
.
Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation.

.
The way God aides our will to freely cooperate as follows:

Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it. But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
.
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott;

The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with Sanctifying grace, (De fide dogma).

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).

.
For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate. "
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.
.
The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)
.
God bless

Two class of free will In Catholic Theology, libertarian free will and aided free will.
.
Libertarian free will is basically the concept that, metaphysically and morally, man is an autonomous being, one who operates independently, not controlled by others or by outside forces. – Only God has libertarian free will no one else.
.
The Catholic Church vehemently rejects that; libertarian free will would be useful for us.

The Council of Sens (1140) condemned the idea that free will is sufficient in itself for any good. Donez., 373.

Council of Orange (529)
In canon 20, entitled that Without God Man Can Do No Good. . . Denz., 193; quoting St. Prosper.

In canon 22, says, No one has anything of his own except lying and sin. Denz., 194; quoting St. Prosper.
.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine providence explains;
“Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).”

.
GOD AIDES OUR FREE WILL AS FOLLOWS

CCC 2022; The divine initiative (supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul) in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
.
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.
.
Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we are all freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation.

.
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott;

The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with Sanctifying grace, (De fide dogma).

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).

.
The Father William Most Collection
St. Augustine on Grace and Predestination

I.(1) On human interaction with grace: Every good work, even good will, is the work of God.
.
De gratia Christi 25, 26: “For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it”
.
De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32: “It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, providing most effective powers to the will.”
.
St. Augustine is called rightly, the Doctor of Grace, for his great work. Augustine showed very well our total dependence on God.
.
God bless

You are correct @RootKitWarrior.
Because only God has Libertarian free will no one else, there is no dice in the Scripture or in Catholic Theology that we have Libertarian free will.
.
In Catholic Theology there are two types of free will.
Libertarian free will and aided free will.

So, in Catholic Theology the question is: Do we have libertarian free will or aided free will?

.
THE SCRIPTURE EXPLAINS THE WAY GOD AIDES/ CREATES OUR AIDED FREE WILL

John 6:44; No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

Ezekiel 36:26-27; I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
.
While St. Thomas says that man turns to God by his own free will, he explains that free-will can only be turn to God, when God turns it. – Meaning: God aides/ creates our free will as follows, the way we all freely turn to God.

.
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH EXPLAINS THE WAY GOD AIDES/ CREATES OUR AIDED FREE WILL

CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 Chapter 8
… None of those things which precede justification - whether faith or works merit the grace itself of justification.
.
“One is saved the moment one is initially justified.” James Akin.
He is director of apologetics and evangelism in the Catholic Answers.
.
As we see above: God created us without our will, He justified/ saved us without our will, we can call it: God’s Love, Justice and His Duty of care.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.
This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”
.
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom.
.
Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation.

Continue
DOGMAS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ALSO EXPLAINS THE WAY GOD AIDES/ CREATES OUR AIDED FREE WILL
.
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott.

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
.
For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary, (De fide dogma).
.
The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with Sanctifying grace, (De fide dogma).
.
Fallen man cannot redeem himself, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility to save ALL OF US.
.
Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification, (De fide dogma). – It is God’s responsibility TO KEEP US SAVED by His gift of grace of Final Perseverance.
.
CCC 2016 The children of our holy mother the Church rightly hope for the grace of final perseverance. – Gives Infallible protection of the salvation of EVERY RECEIVER, there is no salvation without it. Infallible teachings of the Trent and formal teachings of the Catholic Church.
.
Form the Scripture, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church and from the Dogmatic teachings of the Catholic Church, it is absolutely clear, we all have AIDED FREE WILL and God is responsible for the salvation of the entire human race.
.
God bless



>He loves us and wants to save us all.
… if we pray … if we cooperate with Him …

When God wants something to be done, that will be done.

When God wants to save us all, He takes care of the ifs and buts and saves us all.

.
THIS IS THE WAY AS FOLLOWS GOD TAKES CARE OF THE IFS AND BUTS

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
.
Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
.
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan by their actions…
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St. Thomas teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.
.
As God Himself operates in our will, we don’t even have to know we are FREELY cooperating with His will.

.
AS WE SEE ABOVE, THE CHURCH DOGMATICALLY TEACHES.

CCC 2022; The divine initiative (supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul) in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
.
We FREELY will what God wills us to will, and we FREELY do what God wills and causes us to do.

As God himself operates in our wills, we are freely cooperating with His graces, without even knowing it.

.
For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate.
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)
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God bless


Covid-19 is a part of God’s training program, designed, decreed, scheduled from all eternity for the human race, in order to train the human race to be joyful saints in heaven.

.
Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”
.
310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin. – God created the dramas of evil and sin.

.
THE REASON GOD CREATED THE DRAMAS OF EVIL AND SIN

Life without suffering would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.

Our struggle and tribulation while journeying towards our ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin is the cost which in-prints the virtue/ nobility into our souls – the cost of our road to nobility and perfection.

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii, xv in “P.L., VII, 115-24. St. Augustine “De ordine”, I, vii, n. 18 in “P.L.”, XXXII, 986).
.
In His training program God designed every obstacles down to its minutest details, and He also designed His aids for us down to its minutest details, the way He aides us we will able to overcome every our obstacles.
.
At the end of our training program in this earth, we will be joyful saints in heaven.

.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;

“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”
.
God’s will is the cause of all things, every event that happen or will happen in the universe.

Nothing that is outside of God’s creating, sustaining, and governing will.
.
Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
.
There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
.
CCC 2022; The divine initiative (supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul) in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
.
As God Himself operates in our wills, we don’t even have to know we are FREELY cooperating with His will. – CCC 307, CCC 308, etc.
.
So, why would God warning or punish us when we FREELY will what God wills us to will, and we FREELY do what God wills and causes us to do?

The truth is, God neither punish us nor He warnings us, He is training and teaching us.
.
God bless

>I think it really boils down to two types of people.
He wants to be chosen.
We all need to throw ourselves on His mercy, today and at the final hour.

I believe ShowersofRoses your above statements are correct.
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Without going into the fine details, there are two types of people in the world:

a. Un-regenerated, they are still in the condemned state, Rom.5:18a.

b. Regenerated, born again, members of the Body of Christ, predestined to heaven, Rom.5:18b; etc.

.
Every un-regenerated men are still under God’s condemnation, spiritually dead in their sins and spiritual things are foolishness to them, their carnal minds enmity against God, in this state they CAN NOT choose God.
.
As we can not regenerate ourselves, until God regenerates us we stay in this condemned position.

If God never regenerates us we all go to hell. – Our regeneration and the time of our regeneration is up to God’s decision.
.

The other group of people are the regenerated/ born-again predestined to heaven.

.
THE PROCESS OF THEIR REGENERATION:

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Predestination of the elect.

THE THEORY OF PREDESTINATION prævisa merita.

THIS THEORY, CHAMPIONED BY all Thomists and a few Molinists (as Bellarmine, Francisco Suárez, Francis de Lugo):

Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment. End quote.

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/predestination
.

Explaining Justification
The grace of God’s Justification CCCS 1990-1991; Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.

The Grace of God’s Call (1996-1998)
Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
.
John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

Acts 13:48; … As many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

.
As we see above NO ONE REJECTS GOD’S CALL TO ETERNAL LIFE.
.
After God has chosen us, predestined us to heaven, God has regenerated us, we are all choose God as well and His undeserved and special efficacious grace The Gift of Final Perseverance infallible makes sure that every predestined to heaven ends up in heaven.

>I have friends (and some ex friends really now) who are total atheists they tell me things like you are intelligent why do you believe in this rubbish, they put mocking memes on fb and basically think religion is the cause of all evil. What can u do other than pray for them? Sometimes I feel I myself am wasting time doing that as I can’t see them changing I hope I am wrong. My Dad and brother too

Don’t give up hope Halogirl.

The timing is God’s and at His timing He will change the hearts of every member of the human race as follows:

Ezekiel 36:26-27; I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
.
Did you notice the word CAUSE, it is refers to God’s efficacious grace, which grace infallible does the job, the job God preplanned and preordained.

.
Some people think, God only try to save people, but God tries to save no one, God saves everyone with an Absolute Decree, and consequence of this decree, God gives everyone all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.
.

Prayer always works, of course the timing of the answer of the prayer is God’s, like the timing of our recreation/ heart transplant is also God’s.



>Except I’m not talking about good in the traditional problem of evil. This is about love. We’re not talking about a punishment meant for correction. There is no correction out of hell. We’re not talking about a spanking, or cutting off a druggie child. That’s all meant to change behavior. We’re talking about pure revenge. Punishment without end. That isn’t love in any book I can agree with

God bless you Rhubarb and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

We are not created ourselves, God created us and God unconditionally loves us, and it is His responsibility to take care of His creations.
.

If a creator creates a creation and the creation happen to be a junk, who is responsible his junk creation? – Certainly NOT THE JUNK CREATION.
.

Someone may say; God created us with free will and we made ourselves junks with our free will.
.
Nice try, but it is a flawed try, because if a creation created with free will with an equal brain/knowledge that creation would never become a junk.
.
It doesn’t matter how we cut it, according to His Eternal Design/Plan, God created Adam and Eve to “fall.”
.

If God would choose to, He could create Adam and Eve not just only free will with an inferior brain/knowledge, but with an equal brain/knowledge which could resist the temptation and as the result they would never “fall,” in the same way as in heaven will no one “fall.”
.
God created Adam and Eve to “fall” for the BENEFIT of the whole human race as 412 explains it.
.
CCC 412; But why did God not prevent the first man from sinning? St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ’s inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon’s envy had taken away."307 And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature’s being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good.
Thus St. Paul says, ‘Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more’; and the Exsultet sings, ‘O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!’"308
.
.

You said Rhubarb in your post # 38:
But unconditional love means unconditional. Without condition. Which means you’re obliged to say that he lovingly stands by as we throw ourselves into the fire?
.

In my opinion;
We all can be sure, at our recreation God does NOT makes us “junk” again (by the “fall” we have been born “junks”), and He does not let us throw ourselves into the fire, because at our recreation He gives us our free will with equal corresponding brain/knowledge.
.

At our first creation for OUR BENEFIT God created us “junks,” for our tribulations which we ALL have, at our recreation God recreates us perfect for our happiness and heavenly glory which we will ALL have.
.

God bless you Rhubarb and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

>I believe that God loves us unconditionally + collectively but I find it hard to believe in a more personal love

God bless you Lea101 and God bless every readers of the CAF.
.

It may seems hard to believe for us, yet it is true that God personally love each of us with unconditional love, and God gives us His grace abundantly and custom-made for each of us needs for THE BEST outcome which attaining to the full development of our nature and our eternal happiness in God.
.
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The CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence, might prove to you Lea that God not only love you unconditionally but God provides His abundant graces for you personally and CUSTOM-MADE to your needs FOR THE BEST OF YOUR CHRISTIAN DEVELOPMENT and your ETERNAL HAPPINESS IN GOD.
.
.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
.
Quote: Life everlasting promised to us, (Romans 5:21); but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).
.
It is grace of Christ that delivers us (Rom.7:25); and makes us co-heirs with Him (Rom.8:17).
.
This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
.
It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
.
All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, “Apol.”, i, v, vi, xv, xvi;).
.
It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, “Hom. xxviii in Matt.”, n. 3 in “P.G.”, LVII, 354).
.
His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
.
That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God. End quote.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
.
.
This is above God’s UNCONDITIONAL LOVE AND CARE for ALL of us, and His graces CUSTOM-MADE for each of us needs for our Eternal Happiness in Him.
.
God is our SAVIOR, our PROVIDER, our GUIDE, and the DEVELOPER of our Eternal Happiness in Him.
.

God bless you Lea101 and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin

>No, he always loves you. It is unconditional. He is not waiting for people to repent to give them his love. He loves us even when we are far away from him by our own choice. He waits patiently for our return.

God bless you Irismom and God bless every readers of the CAF.
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Good post, I only like add to it.
.

Christ doesn’t wait for our return, He brings us back to the safety of the sheepfold and doesn’t let us perish.
.
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Matthew 18:12-13; (The Parable of the Lost Sheep.)
12 "What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?
13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.
.
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It is the duty of care of the shepherd of the sheep, to care for the sheep, to feed and to protect the sheep, and to bring back the lost sheep to the sheepfold, and MOST OF ALL, to Love the sheep UNCONDITIONALLY.
.
.

GOD ALREADY DEMONSTRATED HIS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF THE LOST SHEEP OF NINEVEH.
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According to the Scripture, the Ninevites were probably the most wicked lost sheep in the whole world and yet God with UNCONDITIONAL LOVE brought back all the lost sheep of Nineveh to the sheepfold.
.
FIRST:
GOD PROMISED Universal Hell to the lost sheep of Nineveh.
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Jonah 3:4; Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, “Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”
.
.

SECOND:
GOD’S UNCONDITIONAL LOVE, JUSTICE AND WILL DEMANDS: – To bring back even the MOST WICKED lost sheep of Nineveh to the sheepfold, which was Universal Salvation of Nineveh.
.
Jonah 4:11; And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?
.

Continue
Continuation
.

ACCORDING TO THE SAME ABOVE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE GOD WILL SAVE ALL THE LOST SHEEP OF THE WHOLE WORLD, EVEN THE MOST WICKED ONES LIKE IN NINEVEH.
.

FIRST:
GOD’S PROMISE TO THE HUMAN RACE – Apart from a few people, practically Universal Hell.

Matt.7:13-14; Apart from a few people I throw everyone to hell.
.
.

SECOND:
BECAUSE GOD LOVES UNCONDITIONALLY THE LOST SHEEP (WE ARE ALL LOST SHEEP), GOD’S REPEATED PROMISES of Universal Salvation of the human race.
.
Rom.5:18;
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, even so one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
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1 Cor.15:22;
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
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Eph.1:9-11;
9. He made known to us the mystery of his will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ,

to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfilment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth in Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.
.

Col.1:20;
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
.

God bless you Irismom and God bless every readers of the CAF.

Latin


>Person can have various reactions to the outcome Y: “Y can’t possibly be the will of God. Satan must have interfered, causing Y.

I have to admit @Tis_Bearself, I really like your post, I had a good laugh when I read; “Satan must have interfered, causing Y.”
.
Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6);

Every our act, includes the acts of Satan postulate (put forward/ cause) Divine concurrence (agreement or union in action/ cooperation) and receive their powers of operation from Him. – John 15:5 … For without Me you can do nothing. Without God, no one can do even a smallest act in the Universe.

There is nothing outside God’s creating, sustaining and governing will.
.
Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)

.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains.

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things.

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

God preserves the universe in being; He acts in and with every creature in each and all its activities.

Hence Providence is at once universal, immediate, efficacious, yet all alike postulate Divine concurrence and receive their powers of operation from Him (I, Q. xxii, a. 3; Q. ciii, a. 6); efficacious, in that all things minister to God’s final purpose, a purpose which cannot be frustrated (Contra Gent., III, xciv);

That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.


newadvent.org

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Divine Providence
Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
.
God preserves the universe in being; He himself operates in and with every creature in each and all its activities. – CCC 307; CCC 308; etc.
.
There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide dogma).
.
CCC 2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man.
.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains;
“God is the author of all causes and effects, God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”
.
God bless


>Even Mary could have chosen to turn away but she did not.

Apart from the Blessed Virgin, God intentionally created all of us to be sinners.
.
MARY WAS FREE FROM ALL PERSONAL SIN John Paul II

“Testifies that Mary, free from original sin, was also preserved from all actual sin and that this initial holiness was granted to her in order to fill her entire life.

Trent expresses this conviction, affirming that no one can avoid all sins, even venial sins, throughout his life, unless he is given a special privilege, as the Church holds with regard to the Blessed Virgin (DS 1573).

The Council of Trent asserts, a special privilege guarantees this immunity from sin. And this is what happened with Mary.

The special privilege granted by God to her who is all holy leads us to admire the marvels accomplished by grace in her life.”

https://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2BVM24.HTM
.
For Mary to commit even one act of sin it was a theological impossibility.

Because God granted to Mary her special privilege the immunity from sin and all the graces necessary to infallible accomplish her God’s gift of destiny/ fate.

.
Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”

If God would willed, He could create us with the privilege of immunity from sin and in this world would be no one could commit even a single act of sin.

CCC 310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin. – God created the dramas of evil and sin for our benefit.

.
THE REASON GOD CREATED THE DRAMAS OF EVIL AND SIN.

Life without suffering would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.

Our struggle and tribulation while journeying towards our ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin is the cost which in-prints the virtue/ nobility into our souls – the cost of our road to nobility and perfection.

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii. St. Augustine “De ordine” I, vii, n. 18).
.
As we see above, we are all sinners because God willed to create us to be sinners for good reason, for the benefit of the entire human race.
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If God would willed, He could granted all of us His special privilege the immunity from sin and all the graces necessary to infallible accomplish our destiny/ fate, like the Blessed Virgin.
.
With the graces God granted to the Blessed Virgin, we all would accomplish the same holy life.

God designed the movie of the Blessed Virgin’s holy life from all eternity and given all the graces necessary to accomplish it.

In the same way, God designed the movie of our life from all eternity and given all the graces necessary to accomplish it.
.
God bless

>Which is what I was getting at. It has nothing to do with how much sin someone does and everything to do with whether their final choice is sin or God. We are saying the same thing from different angles: as a punishment for how much sin someone has done Hell doesn’t make sense. As a consequence of separation from God by our own free choice, it makes a great deal of sense.

I agree, hell cannot be the punishment for sin for many reasons.

But, and it is a big but, how can a person chose hell instead of heaven?

Only an intellectually disabled person or an un-regenerated person (count as spiritually disabled) would chose hell instead of heaven.

How could a Just and loving God allow a disabled person go to hell?

God bless

In my opinion Scripture should be understand in context and in the light of the teachings of the Catholic Church.

The Scripture is like a coded message/ enigma, can be understand by God’s revelation.

.
In the Book of Jonah God also provided us His key to understand His enigma/ coded message.

Jonah 3:4; Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.

For the reason to pay attention God promised distraction and hell to all Ninevites.
.
Despite of all threats and promises of distractions and hell, God provided His Universal Salvation and saved all Ninevites:

Jonah 4:11; And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and also many animals?
.
God promised destruction and hell to all Ninevites, and God provided Universal Salvation to the Ninevites.

.
The same principle applies to the warnings and promises of hell in the New Testament.

When we reading the Scripture, we see in parallel there are two lines of teachings.

One line is only a few people saved, the other line is God’s Universal Salvific Will and God saves everyone (Rom.5:18; Eph.1:10-11; Col.1:20; etc.).

.
Before Vatican II our theologians mostly focused on the line teaches only a few people saved.
.
At Vatican II and after our theologians started to focus on the line which teaches God saves everyone.
.
This is above exactly the whole Catholic Church is praying for (1058), we all should believe we are praying for which is God to save all of us, I believe what we are praying for, I also believe God answers our prayers and He saves all of us.

.
THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION John Salza

The vocation to eternal life is supernatural, it surpasses the powers of human intellect and will, he must be predestined to that end by God.

God must direct us to this end by His power and grace.

Thus, predestination is a certain and infallible truth, revealed by Scripture and taught by the Catholic Church.
.
As we see above, no one can be saved without predestined to heaven, there is no other way.
God’s love and justice demands the fulfilment of 1058 by saving the entire human race.

No one can lose salvation who are predestined to heaven and no one can be saved who are not predestined to Heaven.

Our predestination is up to God, coming totally from His decision and surpassing all power of human intellect and will.
.
God bless

>So… why be good? Why go to Mass and Confession, why avoid sin, etc, if everyone goes to Heaven?

FOR EXAMPLE
CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.“171
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
.
Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
.
There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, ( De fide ).

.
St. Augustine on Grace and Predestination

I. (1) On human interaction with grace : Every good work, even good will, is the work of God:
.
De gratia Christi 25, 26: "For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it"
.
De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32: "It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, providing most effective powers to the will."

>And what of free will?

The Council of Sens (1140) condemned the idea that free will is sufficient in itself for any good. Donez., 373.

Council of Orange (529)
In canon 20, entitled hat Without God Man Can Do No Good. . . Denz., 193; quoting St. Prosper.

In canon 22, says, “ No one has anything of his own except lying and sin. Denz., 194; quoting St. Prosper.
.
As you see above Annie, God has not given us a libertarian free will.
We have aided free will, we freely will what God wills us to will and to perform.

>How do we have free will to reject God if we all go to Heaven anyway?

CCCS 1990-1991; “Justification is God’s free gift which detaches man from enslavement to sin and reconciles him to God.

Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”
.
No one rejects God’s call to eternal life in Heaven.
.
God bless


>You’ve never seen anyone choose something they know is bad for them and will cause them serious problems? Lots of people follow a path of self destruction.

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott.

Fallen man cannot redeem himself. (De fide.) – It is God’s responsibility to save ALL OF US.

.
THE WAY GOD SAVES HIS ELECT TO HEAVEN

CCCS 1990-1991; “… Justification is also our acceptance of God’s righteousness. In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.
.
CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.”
.
ante prævisa merita
“Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.”

De gratia Christi 25, 26: "For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it"
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide).

2022; The divine initiative in the work of grace precedes, prepares, and elicits the free response of man. Grace responds to the deepest yearnings of human freedom, calls freedom to cooperate with it, and perfects freedom. – No one rejects God’s call to eternal life in Heaven.

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Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification. (De fide.) – It is God’s responsibility TO KEEP US SAVED by his Gift of Perseverance.
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The salvation of every predestined to Heaven is eternally protected by God’s gift of Perseverance, this is an INFALLIBLE PROTECTION of the salvation of every predestined to Heaven. – This is an infallible teachings of the Trent and formal teachings of the Catholic Church.

Without God’s gift of Perseverance everyone would die in mortal sin, (THERE IS NO SALVATION WITHOUT IT) while the receivers of His gift of Perseverance NO ONE can die in mortal sin because this is an INFALLIBLE PROTECTION of every predestined to Heaven.
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God bless

>If you are saying that we cannot lose our salvation, you are wrong.

The Catholic Church teaches and it is an INFALLIBLE TEACHING of the Trent and a formal teachings of the Catholic Church, those who are predestined to Heaven CAN NOT LOSE THEIR SALVATION.
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I know The Council of Trent, Sixth Session Canons ON JUSTIFICATION.

CANON XV.-If any one saith, that a man, who is born again and justified, is bound of faith to believe that he is assuredly in the number of the predestinate; let him be anathema.
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The above canon is not referring to the members of the predestined to Heaven because their salvation is eternally and infallibly protected by God’s gift of Perseverance.

According to Catholic Theology, if even one of them would reject God’s graces would end up in hell and God would lose His omniscience, so their salvation as safe as God’s omniscience.

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Trent, Sixth Session Canons ON JUSTIFICATION, Canon XV referring to another predestination, called: Predestination to Grace or Predestination to Initial salvation, both means the same theory of predestination.
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The Church Fathers did not teach this predestination and I believe the Church closed the door on this predestination because it is a positive predestination, God chosen the members but the destination of this predestination is hell.

According to the theory of this predestination, God predestined the members to become parts of the Church for a limited time, then they rejects God’s grace and they all end up in hell.

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Without the special help of God the justified cannot persevere to the end in justification. (De fide.) – It is God’s responsibility TO KEEP US SAVED by his Gift of Perseverance.

At their baptism none of them receives God’s Gift of Perseverance which gift of grace could keep them saved, as the results they are all of them on the one way road to hell.

I never believed the existence of this theory of predestination.
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Without God’s gift of Perseverance everyone would die in mortal sin, THERE IS NO SALVATION WITHOUT THIS GIFT OF GRACE, while the receivers of His gift of Perseverance NO ONE can die in mortal sin because this is an INFALLIBLE PROTECTION of every receiver.

This is one of the proof among many that God is responsible for our salvation.
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God bless


>Answer yes or no please.

I answer the above question with absolute certainty, based on Catholic Theology.

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If the theory: Predestination to Grace or Predestination to Initial salvation, is reality, those who are predestined only to grace/ initial salvation, they justified and absolutely sure they lose salvation and they all end up in hell.

If the theory: Predestination to Grace or Predestination to Initial salvation, is only theory and it is not reality, God justifies only those who are predestined to Heaven and they can never lose their salvation.

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In fact Catholic Theology proves, Predestination to Grace or Predestination to Initial salvation, is only a theory and CAN NOT BE a reality.
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THE PROOF IS:

If a Predestined to Grace/ Predestined to Initial salvation would die while he is still in the state of grace would end up in Heaven and God would instantly lose His omniscience.

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The Catholic dogma
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect.

(1) Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, with all the different measures of grace and the various degrees of happiness, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the definiteness of the number of the elect, follows naturally from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the predestined is unchangeable, then the number of the predestined must likewise be unchangeable and definite, subject neither to additions nor to cancellations. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of certitude in God’s knowledge and would destroy His omniscience. Furthermore, the very nature of omniscience demands that not only the abstract number of the elect, but also the individuals with their names.

ante prævisa merita
“Asserts that God, by an absolute decree and without regard to any future supernatural merits, predestined from all eternity certain men to the glory of heaven, and then, in consequence of this decree, decided to give them all the graces necessary for its accomplishment.”
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According to the above proof, God justifies only those who are predestined to Heaven and no one else and they can NEVER LOSE THEIR SALVATION and they all end up in heaven.
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God bless

>Either you are saying that God wills our bad acts or that when we commit a bad act, we are using our free will to do so.

Catholic Encyclopedia : Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin .
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In THE PROBLEM OF EVIL Peter Kreeft explains;
“Who’s to say suffering is all bad? Life without it would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.”

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii, xv in “P.L.”, VII, 115-24. St. Augustine “De ordine”, I, vii, n. 18 in “P.L.”, XXXII, 986).

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Free Will explains.

“God is the author of all causes and effects, but is not the author of sin, because an action ceases to be sin if God wills it to happen. Still God is the cause of sin.
God’s omnipotent providence exercises a complete and perfect control over all events that happen, or will happen, in the universe.”

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

God is the sole ruler of the world. His will governs all things. He loves all men, desires the salvation of all, and His providence extends to all nations.

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”,
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303 The sacred books powerfully affirm God’s absolute sovereignty over the course of events.

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As we see above: His wisdom He so Designed/ Planned, Decreed/ Orders from all eternity EVERY event within the universe, He directs all, even evil and sin itself to the final end for which the universe was created.

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Like the Military trains (training like hell) their elite soldiers, God trains us by experience and contrast overcome through the obstacles of the dramas of evil and sin , to be well informed joyful saints.
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Yes, our training (like hell on earth) contains both our bad acts and our good acts, Designed/ Planned, Decreed by God from all eternity for each of us to perform.

God’s will is the cause of all things, every event that happen or will happen in the universe.

Nothing that is outside of God’s creating, sustaining, and governing will.

History is not just what He sees will be, but is what He causes to be , especially in every aspect of the redemptive process.
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God bless


>You have not shown that His help cannot be rejected.

I’m sorry about it, I show it now as follows:
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For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate. "
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.
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The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.

Hence if this divine influence stopped, every operation would stop.
Every operation, therefore, of anything is traced back to Him as its cause. (Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III.)

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Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott;

The three Divine or Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity are infused with Sanctifying grace. (De fide.)
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St. Thomas (C. G., II, xxviii) if God’s purpose were made dependent on the foreseen free act of any creature, God would thereby sacrifice His own freedom, and would submit Himself to His creatures, thus abdicating His essential supremacy–a thing which is, of course, utterly inconceivable.
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God’s call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. – CCCS 1996-1998;

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide).

CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.“171
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.

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St. Thomas teaches that God effects everything, the willing and the achievement. S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3:

St. Thomas also teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.
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Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being …
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De gratia Christi 25, 26: "For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it"
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De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32: "It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, providing most effective powers to the will."
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God bless


THE ANSWER OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it?
With infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection, 314 through the dramas of evil and sin .
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In THE PROBLEM OF EVIL Peter Kreeft explains;
“Who’s to say suffering is all bad? Life without it would produce spoiled brats, not joyful saints.”

In this world man has to learn by experience and contrast, and to develop by the overcoming of obstacles (Lactantius, “De ira Dei”, xiii, xv in “P.L.”, VII, 115-24. St. Augustine “De ordine”, I, vii, n. 18 in “P.L.”, XXXII, 986).

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains the ultimate perfection, to which God has destined the human race.
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This, the beneficent purpose of an all-seeing Providence, is wholly gratuitous, entirely unmerited (Romans 3:24; 9:11-2).
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It extends to all men (Romans 2:10; 1 Timothy 2:4), even to the reprobate Jews (Romans 11:26 sq.); and by it all God’s dealings with man are regulated (Ephesians 1:11).
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It extends to every individual, adapting itself to the needs of each (St. John Chrysostom, Hom. xxviii in Matt, n. 3 in; P.G., LVII, 354).
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All things are created and governed with a view to man, to the development of his life and his intelligence, and to the satisfaction of his needs (Aristides, i, v, vi, xv, xvi;).
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His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.
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He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii
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That end is that all creatures should manifest the glory of God, and in particular that man should glorify Him, recognizing in nature the work of His hand, serving Him in obedience and love, and thereby attaining to the full development of his nature and to eternal happiness in God.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm

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307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan by their actions…
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311 For almighty God, . . . because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.177
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324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
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301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves.
He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence.
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God bless

>Can you explain the answer to my question in your own words instead of a series of quotes? I don’t think those quotes are answering my question.

I believe and I trust God; This is above (described in posts: 80, 82, 84) the best way to attain our ultimate perfection and our eternal happiness in God in Heaven as noble and joyful saints.

God bless

>If what you say is the case, then why be good? We seem to be destined for Heaven or Hell beforehand, so what difference does it make if we are good or bad?

Thank you Annie for your post and for your questions?

According to Catholic Theology, both of my above statement is correct.

According to Catholic Theology, my above posts 51, 53, 63, 68, 70, 80, 82, 84, are also correct.

I believe our Catholic Church has the revealed fullness of the truth.

I love Catholic Theology, in particular Soteriology.

Officially our Catholic Church not yet teach that God saves everyone even more and more Catholics includes me believe God will saves everyone.

The whole Catholic Church is (1058) praying for the salvation of the entire human race.

In my opinion, we all should believe what we are praying for, the fullfillment of God’s salvific will, which is the salvation of the entire human race.

I have to admit, as a protestant I use to believe, God will burn and torment in hell eternally the large majority of the human race.

Catholic theology opened my mind and eyes to see, we cannot save ourselves, only God can save us and God saves us as it is written, for example:

CCC 298 Since God could create everything out of nothing, he can also, through the Holy Spirit, give spiritual life to sinners by creating a pure heart in them. 148
And since God was able to make light shine in darkness by his Word, he can also give the light of faith to those who do not yet know him.

I believe, we all should trust God and His Salvific Will and the salvation of the entire human race.

With faith in God, we all should do our best for the Glory of God.

God bless



>He so thirsts for our free “yes”, that rather than force us by grace he goes through death.

I agree with you goout, God never force us by His graces, (2022) His initiative in the work of grace only precedes, prepares, and elicits our free response . – We are all freely respond, no force involved.
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There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will, (De fide).

As we see above again, His supernatural intervention in the faculties of our souls, precedes the FREE ACT of our wills, without any force.

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THE WAY GOD CALLS US TO HEAVEN WITHOUT FORCING US TO SAY “YES” TO HIS CALL

Aquinas said, "God changes the will without forcing it . But he can change the will from the fact that he himself operates in the will as he does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9. 31. ST I-II:112:3. 32. Gaudium et Spes 22; "being … – There is no force involved.
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308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it.
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De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32: "It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good … . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, providing most effective powers to the will."
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(Thomas Aquinas, S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3). God effects everything, the willing and the achievement. …

St. Thomas also teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.

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The Catholic dogma
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA The predestination of the elect.

(1) Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, with all the different measures of grace and the various degrees of happiness, has been irrevocably fixed from all eternity. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it were possible that a predestined individual should after all be cast into hell or that one not predestined should in the end reach heaven, then God would have been mistaken in his foreknowledge of future events; He would no longer be omniscient.
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John 6:44; No one can come to Me unless the father who sent Me draws him
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CCCS 1996-1998; This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.
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John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

Acts 13:48; as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

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The question IS: Is it a possibility that anyone in any stages rejects God’s graces and end up in hell whom God has chosen and decided to save?

Thank you for your or others answer in advance.

At the answer please keep in mind:
John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.
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God bless