Shouta> oh hey my game
<Kincaido> =D
<KyouG> Dungeon Siege 3
<KyouG> shit, I want that
<MechaX> didn't even know you mained sinanju
<Shouta> I haven't played you recently
<Shouta> with&
<MechaX> poor delta plus
<Shouta> Yeah, Shingin was a bit close for most of the match. Held his own quite well but could've played farther out
<Enron> shouta finally wins!
<Enron> bretts mic goes to 11
<Shouta> yeah =x
<Kincaido> they shamed themselves. they are not idols >=(
<Kincaido> at least they lost to Shouta though lol
<Shouta> I think the last two matches I played were with Zuda and DX or was it Forbidden
<Shouta> can't recall
<Shouta> and Shigin on DP
<Shouta> Shingin*
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<Shouta> dat javelin
<Shouta> ah Zudah and Forbidden
<Shouta> Haman Kyou
<Shouta> HAMANNNN
<KyouG> !
<dakanya> hmm tbh you didnt play around shingin enough
<dakanya> either shouldve told him to stay back more
<dakanya> or go in harder
<dakanya> or switch targets more and help him
<KyouG> Haman needs to watch her boosts.
<Shouta> yeah
<dakanya> its cause you werent generatiing enough attention
<Shouta> i was thinking I should've just gone balls out more
<dakanya> so people just pick on your 'back' suit
<Shouta> after the fact
<Shouta> Hindsight is 20/20 though, so oh well
<Shouta> I actually mentioned to Shingin to stay back more before the match against Myung
<dakanya> where you picked zuda right
<Shouta> Yeah
<dakanya> the zuda pick probbbaably wasnt a smart choice
<Shouta> I was hoping to make it a distance match and use Zudah's rifle/missiles/assists
<dakanya> you should have already known shingin was gonna play close
<dakanya> and be looking to get landing punishes cause thats what hed been doing all day
<Shouta> Well, i figured he was going to play back more when I mentioned it
<Shouta> but yeah, I probably should've thought in the opposite direction
<Shouta> and just kept up front instead
<dakanya> you might have also made the wrong impression
<dakanya> when you chose to fight a solid 3k/2k comp
<dakanya> with a 2k/1k comp
<Shouta> A bit perhaps
<Shouta> It started off a little smoothly I thought
<Shouta> Nailed myung a few times at long range with the rifle then kinda got messy
<dakanya> yeah they adapted
<dakanya> thats the thing about 2k/1k
<dakanya> and low dmg in general
<dakanya> you have to win a lot of exchanges
<dakanya> and its not like fighting the cpu
<Shouta> well Zudah is pretty buff for a 1k
<dakanya> they're gonna get smarter
<Shouta> so I was hoping for that
<Shouta> cost vs damage
<dakanya> nah thats how ppl think when they are scared
<Shouta> Was hoping to outlast them
<dakanya> like any sort of bad low cost comp
<dakanya> is just bad against an expensive comp
<dakanya> false hopes there
<Shouta> I disagree
<Teknopathetic> you needed more dog, shouta, should've flown me out
<Shouta> But in this case, you'd be right because of lack of experience playing with each other
<Shouta> Tek: Would've been coo to play with ya but I ain't paying for your ticket >=O
<Teknopathetic> hahaha
<dakanya> bad low cost comp is bad
<dakanya> it ended up being the wrong adaptation/answer but oh well
<Shouta> Well yes, in this case
<dakanya> in most cases it'd be probbably be the wrong answer
<Shouta> I don't really agree that it's a bad adaptation in general just the wrong one for this occasion
<dakanya> it played out in the worst way too you got like 3 lives lol
<dakanya> or was it 2 lives
<Shouta> I think I got 2 maybe 3, I don't really recall and I wasn't counting during the video
<dakanya> maybe if you go tlike 4 lives
<Shouta> Yeah but that'd really require a partner in the back
<dakanya> yeah if he actually played back
<Shouta> Yep, miscalc on my part
<Shouta> He's solid though for sure
<Shouta> Watching his viewpoint on the stream, he got some nice punishes and did ok in close
<dakanya> if you were gonna play back the best play would be to play a 3k and give shingin 3 lives
<Shouta> yeah, I probably should've gone Unicorn in that case but I hadn't really thought of it
<Shouta> or someone similar
<dakanya> yeah. like 2k/1k is just badddd most of the time
<Shouta> Without a set team and partner, sure
<Shouta> Can't really deny it doesn't work the current situation
<Shouta> err
<Shouta> that situation
<dakanya> even with a set team and partner its quite bad unless you are like sigggggnificantly more skilled than the other team
* tenkai (~baitosens@108-202-180-29.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) has left #gafgundam (喰うか喰われるか！)
<Shouta> I don't really think it can be simplified that much. But 2k/1k is only really viable with a few of the 1ks
<Shouta> Zaku and Tank for sure
<dakanya> yeah they are like s tier 1k
<Shouta> Zudah can fit in there with the correct strat, I think. It's a little more fickle
<Shouta> but Zudah's general damage output is pretty high for a 1k
<Shouta> I mean Rifle is 120, Assists are 100 or so
<dakanya> ideal 2k/1k will have trouble against expensive comps. especially if they are expensive melee
<dakanya> 120/100 is low output in general though
<dakanya> everything in the game does like that much damage at least lol
<dakanya> it just comes down to boost and extreme meter really
<Shouta> For a 1k though that's almost or on par with the two S tier units
<Shouta> Zudah's issue isn't so much damage but boost like you said
<Shouta> His Boost/Movement is a bit ass and is the issue with him
<dakanya> yeah i kind of implied it
<dakanya> there are several reasons
<dakanya> why 2k/1k is bad
<dakanya> against expensive comps
<dakanya> the most obvious one is not damage its boost
<dakanya> you just get outclassed and cant punish them but they can punish you all day
<Shouta> Certainly
<dakanya> well anyways its fine if you can completely outplay them, playing on a much higher level in general, playing much smarter, however you wannap ut it etc
<Shouta> I agree with you on the general theories. I just think it's a hard loss
<Shouta> err
<Shouta> I just don't think it's a hard loss or whatever
<Shouta> Situation is different every match, skill, decisions, etc
<dakanya> yeah but in a majority of the situations that can come up it's pretty unfavorable
<dakanya> in the majority*
<Shouta> True, but that's why I love the game. Even if the situation is unfavorable, it isn't exactly a set unfavorable or a total wash
<Shouta> like it would be in say a fighting game or so
<dakanya> player ability does go a long way
<Shouta> Yeah
<Shouta> Good decisions, smart play, good strat get a lot of mileage in the game. It's why I really never discount a lot stuff in Gundam
<Shouta> It's an uphill battle for sure but something that'll be straight decided at the select screen
<Shouta> but not something*
<Shouta> man, I'm tired
<dakanya> well at the same time you only see top tier suits at dogfights so
<Shouta> True, but you could also explain that as folks taking it seriously
<dakanya> this is where just skill isnt enough
<Shouta> Well, you want to go with the best chance of winning rather than betting on your skill so
<Shouta> Can't fault anyone for that
<dakanya> you could say gundam kind of gets away with that because there are like almost 70 suits in the game
<Shouta> Yeah, it's a bit of that for sure
<Shouta> It's also a bit of mechanics and the style of gameplay
<Shouta> With a lot of competitive games, advantages often don't have as much to soften the bonus you get form them
<haly> the core mechanics are so much more important in gundam i feel
<haly> than in other fighting games
<Shouta> So like going back to the old street fighter, Ryu and Ken being invincibile for most of their Shoryuken was a huge advantage
<dakanya> well the mechanics kind of spell out the way the game should be played in gundam
<Shouta> There was nothing you could do to mitigate it
<dakanya> lets like... not... go to old street fighter.. how old is old anyways
<Shouta> well, it was just the easiest one I could remember lol
<dakanya> i dont think its fair to compare a much newer game to a really old game anyways
<Shouta> wasn't really a comparison of games, just saying that there wasn't an element inside that could help you bypass it
<Shouta> Ah
<Shouta> Here's a gundam example
<Shouta> GvG
<Shouta> God utterly dominated GvG because of his unique movements and melee
<Shouta> Funnels were also incredibly overpowered
<Shouta> because you couldn't dodge them
<Shouta> It was straight line boosting, maybe some jumping, side steps
* KyouG goes to play GvG
<haly> lol
<haly> kyouGod
<dakanya> like next? before exvs? i didnt play so like i dunno lol
<KyouG> funnels for breakfast, lunch, and dinner
<Shouta> Before Next
<dakanya> though i know how much got added in exvs so pre-exvs seems pretty kusoge now
<Shouta> Then next came out and Next Dash was added
<Shouta> That totally changed the game
<Shouta> Mobility was increased immensely and a lot of the advantages of the units in GvG were lost
<Kincaido> go afk and see a wall of text
<Teknopathetic> the fuck is up with all this chat in my irc log
<Shouta> Funnels were still powerful but not all-mighty, God wasn't nearly as good, Freedom lost its big advantage
<Shouta> The advantages for each of the units were there but they were softened because of the game
<Shouta> You could get out against God, you could dodge funnels, you could keep up with Freedom, etc
<Shouta> That's what I really enjoy about the series. Advantages exist but they aren't going to ruin it for you entirely
<dakanya> thats cool
<Shouta> Same thing happened from Next to EXVS too which was great
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<dakanya> the game always seems to be getting better and better and making progress
<dakanya> i like how burst doesnt recover all your boost in full boost
<Shouta> Yeah, I like that too
<dakanya> i dunno how to feel about having two bursts yet
<dakanya> having two choices of burst*
<Shouta> Having stuck with the game, it's really cool seeing all the changes across the iterations
<Shouta> It's kind of why I don't take tier lists as seriously except in the extreme cases but even then
<Shouta> Seeing what I can do with all the units now compared to then because of system changes kind of softened the tier impact for me
<Shouta> I remember playing Alex in GvG and thinking "damn, why is she even in this game" and now I see her in EXVS and think "Damn, why is she in this game. Oh well, at least I can be effective if I play my cards right"
<dakanya> not enough cards imo
<dakanya> lololol
<dakanya> i should mash more alex
<dakanya> im just like ffff i dont have a br ffff i died
<Shouta> Well, yeah not enough cards in her case >_>
<Shouta> But that's the long explanation for why I don't really discount the cost combos that are at a disadvantage
<Shouta> It's a disadvantage for sure, but there's enough in this game on a basic system level that you can get away with it with smart play
<dakanya> well ultimately its your own decision and opinion so its whatever
<Shouta> If it was GvG or Next, I'd be a lot harder on it so
<dakanya> would've been cool if it paid off and worked out but it didnt so gg
<Shouta> yeah
<Shouta> Yeah, that's what counts
<Shouta> my gamble didn't work fuuuuu
<dakanya> maybe next year!